Scott is confused by “Live”

Scott Hanselman, one of our best customers, is confused by Windows Live.

Shhh, Scott, don’t tell anyone, but this isn’t about just the portal. And if anyone at Microsoft thinks it is I’m gonna come and kick them in the rear.

It’s about a new advertising platform. It’s about giving users new services that can be docked on the live.com page or in other places. It’s about a new URL for search. Sorry, typing in http://search.msn.com was too confusing and convoluted. It’s a lot easier to say “go to live dot com.”

It’ll all make sense when the subdomains start popping in.

What opportunity is there for developers? Lots. See, you’ll be able to create a service box that’ll drive traffic back to your site or blog. Why would you do that? Well, on your blog you’ll have a monetization service that’ll give you a paycheck.

But, yes, they made this stuff too complicated. I see it clearly in my mind now. I’m going to get some videos now and make these teams simplify what they are trying to say.

We don’t know how to romance developers anymore (if we ever did). Sorry about that.

Oh, Joe Wilcox wrote a post about “what is live.”

Comments

  1. Those of us that have been working on/with Live-related projects certainly know that it’s about a lot more than the portal.

    At least now I won’t have to say to people around here, “Do you know about Skylight? No? Nevermind then.”

    It’s stressful keeping a secret from other Microsofties :)

  2. Those of us that have been working on/with Live-related projects certainly know that it’s about a lot more than the portal.

    At least now I won’t have to say to people around here, “Do you know about Skylight? No? Nevermind then.”

    It’s stressful keeping a secret from other Microsofties :)

  3. Pretty ambitious goals for a site that doesn’t work in anything based on Opera, WebKit or Gecko. This isn’t a problem for the guys over at Google, but maybe it’s because they’re better at this ‘internet’ thing than Microsoft is.

    Why should I develop for your site if you can’t even bother to support all of my readers?

  4. Pretty ambitious goals for a site that doesn’t work in anything based on Opera, WebKit or Gecko. This isn’t a problem for the guys over at Google, but maybe it’s because they’re better at this ‘internet’ thing than Microsoft is.

    Why should I develop for your site if you can’t even bother to support all of my readers?

  5. “I see it clearly in my mind now.”

    Get Scoble up on stash and plop his mind out on the table because he’s the only one who gets it.

    Does anyone at Microsoft get that going: “Shhh… it’s coming, it’s cool, it’ll all make sense eventually” isn’t good marketing or outreach to customers and developers?

    I’ve got the answer. It’s in my mind. Just wait. I’ll tell you some day.

  6. “I see it clearly in my mind now.”

    Get Scoble up on stash and plop his mind out on the table because he’s the only one who gets it.

    Does anyone at Microsoft get that going: “Shhh… it’s coming, it’s cool, it’ll all make sense eventually” isn’t good marketing or outreach to customers and developers?

    I’ve got the answer. It’s in my mind. Just wait. I’ll tell you some day.

  7. I thought this Joe Wilcox post would explain what Live was, but it looks like he’s wondering what the rest of us are: what the hell is Live?

    > A few people have asked me what “Live” means. While I see Microsoft’s reasoning for tying into Office and Windows brands, I’m skeptical of Live’s appeal. Live certainly doesn’t grab me, and, yes, there is uncertainty about what it means. Is it supposed to mean the living Web? Maybe community or safety? I’ll let Microsoft answer that question.

  8. I thought this Joe Wilcox post would explain what Live was, but it looks like he’s wondering what the rest of us are: what the hell is Live?

    > A few people have asked me what “Live” means. While I see Microsoft’s reasoning for tying into Office and Windows brands, I’m skeptical of Live’s appeal. Live certainly doesn’t grab me, and, yes, there is uncertainty about what it means. Is it supposed to mean the living Web? Maybe community or safety? I’ll let Microsoft answer that question.

  9. I don’t get it either. But then, I didn’t get .net, and I still don’t. Perhaps I’m just not smart enough for Microsoft, but I actually don’t think so.

    Microsoft needs to get better at explaining. Either the products have to be so simple that they don’t need an explanation (that would be delightful) or at least come with an elevator pitch we can all understand (that would be okay, too).

  10. I don’t get it either. But then, I didn’t get .net, and I still don’t. Perhaps I’m just not smart enough for Microsoft, but I actually don’t think so.

    Microsoft needs to get better at explaining. Either the products have to be so simple that they don’t need an explanation (that would be delightful) or at least come with an elevator pitch we can all understand (that would be okay, too).

  11. Scoble: shouldn’t you have waiting for this stuff to get at least to a beta stage before releasing it? It doesn’t reflect well on the launch.

  12. 1. IE only.
    2. Features done better elsewhere (mail, blog tools, etc).
    3. Designed only to compete with Google’s web services.

    I like the shift in general. Limited browser support is a bit pathetic. I mean, really fucking pathetic. Still, Yahoo and Google (and others) are doing it better. Have fun rolling this up the hill.

  13. Scoble: shouldn’t you have waiting for this stuff to get at least to a beta stage before releasing it? It doesn’t reflect well on the launch.

  14. 1. IE only.
    2. Features done better elsewhere (mail, blog tools, etc).
    3. Designed only to compete with Google’s web services.

    I like the shift in general. Limited browser support is a bit pathetic. I mean, really fucking pathetic. Still, Yahoo and Google (and others) are doing it better. Have fun rolling this up the hill.

  15. Tetra: but you can move the widgets around! That’s new and amazing… err… never been done before… err… uhh…

    It’s … err… a new PLATFORM! that’s it!!! It’s the new Web DNA!

    I find it amusing that it feels somewhat like a bizarro, el-cheapo clone of Google. It’s similar enough that I can clearly see the influence, but not similar enough that I’d want to use it.

  16. Tetra: but you can move the widgets around! That’s new and amazing… err… never been done before… err… uhh…

    It’s … err… a new PLATFORM! that’s it!!! It’s the new Web DNA!

    I find it amusing that it feels somewhat like a bizarro, el-cheapo clone of Google. It’s similar enough that I can clearly see the influence, but not similar enough that I’d want to use it.

  17. What the hell is it with Microsoft people and those stupid fucking GUID links?

    A GUID is great if you have to deal with collisions because Microsoft thinks the Registry is so awesome everyone needs to get in on this, but how hard would have a URI like domain.com/2005/11/live-explained then you could switch your blog to something that doesn’t suck and not worry about all those .aspx links.

  18. What the hell is it with Microsoft people and those stupid fucking GUID links?

    A GUID is great if you have to deal with collisions because Microsoft thinks the Registry is so awesome everyone needs to get in on this, but how hard would have a URI like domain.com/2005/11/live-explained then you could switch your blog to something that doesn’t suck and not worry about all those .aspx links.

  19. This IS confusing. Nothing on the website about office or windows, and it’s identical to start.com, which has an equally good name, and is also in beta. So, basically a copy of Google where nothing comes out of beta? Of course, they didn’t try to copy themselves, so you’re a step ahead… ;)

  20. This IS confusing. Nothing on the website about office or windows, and it’s identical to start.com, which has an equally good name, and is also in beta. So, basically a copy of Google where nothing comes out of beta? Of course, they didn’t try to copy themselves, so you’re a step ahead… ;)

  21. I get the advertising thing because I read the stuff around RS’s convo on Attention Trust.

    My impression is that in reality, Gates said this: “Consumers are going to get bombarded with ads that are 1-2-1 to their preferences initially supported by a rip-off of Google/Yahoo!. It will be devastatingly beautiful so consumers will move en masse to us and away from Google/Yahoo! (In time.) VARs, you just got screwed. I know you’re getting battered by OSS but – can’t fix that at the moment. Business, you got screwed too. Nothing changes for you guys – sorry. Talk to the VARs – they’ll explain it.”

    RS I think knows this, otherwise why would he remind readers of his Laundry List of 12 things MSFT has to sort out? Assuming he’s not already ready to jump ship, despite his vehement protestations to the contrary.

    I believe RS knows his word is going to be gobbled up out here at a far higher rate than anything he generates internally. If this is a tipping point for MSFT, we might be watching it unfold. For better or worse. But according to an agenda influenced by RS.

  22. I get the advertising thing because I read the stuff around RS’s convo on Attention Trust.

    My impression is that in reality, Gates said this: “Consumers are going to get bombarded with ads that are 1-2-1 to their preferences initially supported by a rip-off of Google/Yahoo!. It will be devastatingly beautiful so consumers will move en masse to us and away from Google/Yahoo! (In time.) VARs, you just got screwed. I know you’re getting battered by OSS but – can’t fix that at the moment. Business, you got screwed too. Nothing changes for you guys – sorry. Talk to the VARs – they’ll explain it.”

    RS I think knows this, otherwise why would he remind readers of his Laundry List of 12 things MSFT has to sort out? Assuming he’s not already ready to jump ship, despite his vehement protestations to the contrary.

    I believe RS knows his word is going to be gobbled up out here at a far higher rate than anything he generates internally. If this is a tipping point for MSFT, we might be watching it unfold. For better or worse. But according to an agenda influenced by RS.

  23. Dvorak: you’re a moron.

    Scoble: maybe you should be kicking the marketing and messaging folks on campus in the rear, not someone who looks at today’s obfuscation and doesn’t see its beauty. Hanselldude is a pretty smart cookie, if he’s not grokking it, then that would be an excellent indicator that the message (as delivered) totally sucks.

    Web 2.0 (vurp) is as about the messaging as much as it is about the underlying service. Is flickr that much better than competitive services? Maybe. But we’ll never know because they got there first with working software and now everyone uses it. No confusion, no vapor.

    Look at myspaces. Horrible app, well understood message and mindshare.

  24. Dvorak: you’re a moron.

    Scoble: maybe you should be kicking the marketing and messaging folks on campus in the rear, not someone who looks at today’s obfuscation and doesn’t see its beauty. Hanselldude is a pretty smart cookie, if he’s not grokking it, then that would be an excellent indicator that the message (as delivered) totally sucks.

    Web 2.0 (vurp) is as about the messaging as much as it is about the underlying service. Is flickr that much better than competitive services? Maybe. But we’ll never know because they got there first with working software and now everyone uses it. No confusion, no vapor.

    Look at myspaces. Horrible app, well understood message and mindshare.

  25. Any change that Microsoft will let us use this advertising service on spaces.msn.com? I’d like to use Microsoft’s services, but they make it hard. I’d like to earn a bit of revenue off of my blog.

  26. Any change that Microsoft will let us use this advertising service on spaces.msn.com? I’d like to use Microsoft’s services, but they make it hard. I’d like to earn a bit of revenue off of my blog.

  27. I don’t see the confusion. Isn’t it as simple as this – Microsoft is offering a whole bunch of online services in order to remain competitive in the new (for lack of a better word) Web 2.0 era.

    Think of it as Microsoft’s implementation of things like mapping, IM, online gadgets (dashboard/konfabulator style widgets), spaces (social networking), social bookmaking etc.

    But instead of simply offering the services, they’re also trying to build a platform underneath it to enable 3rd parties to participate.

    Or something like that.

    My version of what it’s all about can be found here – http://delicategeniusblog.com/?p=69

    -dg

  28. I don’t see the confusion. Isn’t it as simple as this – Microsoft is offering a whole bunch of online services in order to remain competitive in the new (for lack of a better word) Web 2.0 era.

    Think of it as Microsoft’s implementation of things like mapping, IM, online gadgets (dashboard/konfabulator style widgets), spaces (social networking), social bookmaking etc.

    But instead of simply offering the services, they’re also trying to build a platform underneath it to enable 3rd parties to participate.

    Or something like that.

    My version of what it’s all about can be found here – http://delicategeniusblog.com/?p=69

    -dg

  29. “It’ll all make sense”

    Let me guess? Just trust us? Hahhaah, what a marketing washout. And you seem to be the only one. It’s just a kludged-together portal anti-Googleish Web 2.0 strategy with Office and advertising thrown in. Reminds me of a brainstorming session where anything and everything tossed into the rebranding mix. The “gadgets” site was an embarrassing joke.

    “You may not understand it now, but I have this mental vision of where it be headed and seen some lucid dreaming coughed-up demo’s, and some hints of a vague monetization service, but no details on how it will work, and it’s still way too complicated, but I see it clearly in my mind now. Just you wait, it will all make sense eventually.”

    That there is a marketing trainwreck. Ok, here’s a clue for anyone who wants to market, you have to boil it down to a sentence, and make it stick with a hook. In my field, that’s called a “logline”, MFST should start doing loglines for software, it sure would help. And learn the meaning of the phrase “High Concept Idea”. Also you HIT the ground RUNNING, you have live demo’s up so people can walk-thru it all. Beta sign up’s for a service no one is sure of nor can ‘clearly see’?

    And oh Joe was no savior, he’s just as confused. And he’s already half on the payroll.

    You recall when MFST stuck .NET on everything like it was candy, and what a trainwreck that was? If they stick Live on everything, redux.

    This is what you paid Ray millions for? Sounds like you guys got a raw deal.

  30. “It’ll all make sense”

    Let me guess? Just trust us? Hahhaah, what a marketing washout. And you seem to be the only one. It’s just a kludged-together portal anti-Googleish Web 2.0 strategy with Office and advertising thrown in. Reminds me of a brainstorming session where anything and everything tossed into the rebranding mix. The “gadgets” site was an embarrassing joke.

    “You may not understand it now, but I have this mental vision of where it be headed and seen some lucid dreaming coughed-up demo’s, and some hints of a vague monetization service, but no details on how it will work, and it’s still way too complicated, but I see it clearly in my mind now. Just you wait, it will all make sense eventually.”

    That there is a marketing trainwreck. Ok, here’s a clue for anyone who wants to market, you have to boil it down to a sentence, and make it stick with a hook. In my field, that’s called a “logline”, MFST should start doing loglines for software, it sure would help. And learn the meaning of the phrase “High Concept Idea”. Also you HIT the ground RUNNING, you have live demo’s up so people can walk-thru it all. Beta sign up’s for a service no one is sure of nor can ‘clearly see’?

    And oh Joe was no savior, he’s just as confused. And he’s already half on the payroll.

    You recall when MFST stuck .NET on everything like it was candy, and what a trainwreck that was? If they stick Live on everything, redux.

    This is what you paid Ray millions for? Sounds like you guys got a raw deal.

  31. Robert: I don’t want to *read* what live is about, I want to test it, use it, sense it.

    You enbarrased yourself with this *launch* (without actually launching anything)

  32. Robert: I don’t want to *read* what live is about, I want to test it, use it, sense it.

    You enbarrased yourself with this *launch* (without actually launching anything)

  33. I think the first couple sentences of this blog entry show exactly what Microsoft thinks of its customers:

    —–
    Scott Hanselman, one of our best customers, is confused by Windows Live.

    Shhh, Scott, don’t tell anyone, but this isn’t about just the portal.
    —–

    Ahh, so one of your best customers, and you insult his intelligence. It does seem typical though “We are Microsoft, we are all smart, we know better than you do. If you can’t see why you should buy our stuff, you’re just stupid.” I think live.com is just a nothing. Thinking of the “subdomains,” how about go.com or yahoo.com? They have the subdomains already, like espn.go.com or auctions.yahoo.com. So, I don’t see anything original. What I do see is a poorly laid out website that doesn’t support any browsers other than IE, and is far less useful than My Yahoo!, which has been around forever. I’ll tell you who doesn’t get it: Microsoft.

  34. I think the first couple sentences of this blog entry show exactly what Microsoft thinks of its customers:

    —–
    Scott Hanselman, one of our best customers, is confused by Windows Live.

    Shhh, Scott, don’t tell anyone, but this isn’t about just the portal.
    —–

    Ahh, so one of your best customers, and you insult his intelligence. It does seem typical though “We are Microsoft, we are all smart, we know better than you do. If you can’t see why you should buy our stuff, you’re just stupid.” I think live.com is just a nothing. Thinking of the “subdomains,” how about go.com or yahoo.com? They have the subdomains already, like espn.go.com or auctions.yahoo.com. So, I don’t see anything original. What I do see is a poorly laid out website that doesn’t support any browsers other than IE, and is far less useful than My Yahoo!, which has been around forever. I’ll tell you who doesn’t get it: Microsoft.

  35. this is just like start .com what is going on here i sure someone is confused and it is not the end user

  36. this is just like start .com what is going on here i sure someone is confused and it is not the end user

  37. [...] Scott doesn’t get it. As does Mark. But according to Robert this isn’t about just the portal. Its about search.msn.com, or how live.com is going to be the new Microsoft search. And a Microsoft ‘Adsense’. And webmail. And an online virusscanner. And …Someone found out that DNS changes aren’t accomplished ad-hoc and/or building a portal upon MSN Search with all the ‘Kahoona’ is not going to happen any time soon. (IMHO: overdemanding people who control the money and time… you cannot live without them… ) [...]

  38. It’s really amusing that start.com works in Firefox but this doesn’t.

    And call me a “moron”, but I don’t “get” GUID URLs either.

  39. It’s really amusing that start.com works in Firefox but this doesn’t.

    And call me a “moron”, but I don’t “get” GUID URLs either.

  40. [...] … despre software Inca este relativ incerta strategia Microsoft si ce vrea efectiv sa faca din Live: – Scoble (unul dintre cei mai faimosi blogeri din lume, angajat Microsoft): “yes, they made this stuff too complicated” – Joe Wilcox de la Jupiter Research: “there is uncertainty about what it means. Is it supposed to mean the living Web? Maybe community or safety?” – Scott Hanselman: “Is it just me? There’s msn.com, there’s MSN Messenger, there’s Windows Messenger, there’s Office Communicator, there’s Hotmail, yada yada yada” [...]