#21: EE Times survey reports engineers believe America’s tech leadership in decline

Microsoft's history at being the front most company in sending American tech jobs overseas is the biggest issue I have with the company.

Jake: really? Every team I talk to in Redmond is hiring people -- here in the good old US of A. As I walk around campus most employees are doubled up in their offices.

So, what jobs exactly have gone overseas?

So, what jobs exactly have gone overseas?

Come to the Charlotte NC PSS site and walk through the (empty) halls.

Scoble you are a idiot, India,China "research labs"...yeah I'm sure alot of Indians have Ph.Ds..

Orbit: actually you'd be shocked how many do and how many come to American colleges to get them.

Cant Leave My Name: yes, and in Silicon Valley they actually used to manufacture things. I'm not unsensitive to those who lose jobs (I laid myself off just about four years ago) but for every job shipped overseas another job took its place (and one that pays a lot more).

We can't hire enough good programmers in the US.

oh bullish, their are millions of programmers in the US that need jobs but companys are outsourcing.

Orbit: really? I'm here in Silicon Valley right now. All the companies I talk to say they can't hire enough programmers. If there are good programmers out there, I'd sure like to meet them.

Microsoft lobbied congress for the H1B and other visa programs and has took full advantage of the WTO in setting up shop in Hydrablad. It is almost to the point where they should start putting "Made in India" stickers on Windows Vista. I am a supporter of Washtech ( http://www.washtech.org/ ) and could go on about this for hours. It also sucks that they set up Windows licenses in Nevada in order to short change Washington state on taxes. But more personally my former girlfriend in Office XP tech docs had her job offshored she was an orange badge and a friend that was a blue badge programmer for many years had his job offshored.

Silicon Valley isn't the entire United States, put offices in NY!!.. just like Google has..

how much are the Indian,chinese programmers paid at Microsoft Research in India, China?..

Orbit: we have offices in NY. Much of our VSTS is built in North Carolina too.

Orbit: I don't know the salary levels. I'd assume it's a lot less cause houses in India sure don't cost the $700,000 they do in Silicon Valley.

That said, again, find me a good unemployed programmer in Silicon Valley.

Robert,

Wow, talk about hitting the hot button. I notice that the comment focus is on Microsoft, even though our economy and its direction overall are well summarized by the IEEE findings. The Microsoft commenters might benefit from a broader perspective.

Considering that a similar poll twenty years ago would probably have similar findings, where has the U.S. ended up after a generation? Well, it is possible that the technical leadership position we (U.S.) enjoy is only in our imagination. It is possible that the U.S. is not the center of the universe. And it is possible that talent is where you find it.

I love our country. Until we come to grips and do things better, we won't compete as well as we have in the past. Closing the borders is not an option.

Scoble I am not saying that is all Microsoft's fault but they are a piece in a larger puzzle. Microsoft is chartered in Washington State and is based here yet they only hire 8% of their workforce from here. The underfunding of the US public educational system, pro-corporate international trade deals like the WTO, corporate funded political re-election campaigns, the loss of just about every last manufacturing job, massive trade deficits and an obscene national debt are all factors that might act to waste away the technological advantage that our economy enjoyed in the 20th century.

What other nations in the tech race lack is imagination, which Americans by and large still have a firm grip of. If you want crummy code, in a short time, do what my employer did, outsource. Then I can kick back and rake in my paychecks fixing their crummy application. Which I could have written 5x faster if they had just asked me.

ha,, soo what The Indian, Chinese coders are doing the same work. so what if they live in a different country that has lower standards..same work same pay

You can't hire enough good programmers in the US because you don't pay enough to keep us in the market.

FACT: Housing costs in tech centers rocket beyond all reason while tech companies leave salaries anemic relative to cost of living (although high for national average). Eventually those of us who can do other things say "screw it" and bail..

You really want the very best people? Either 1) enable remote employment from anywhere over the internet or 2) pay reasonable salaries relative to local cost of living.

CLUE: When I entered the software business 15 years ago, median home price for average programmer was about 2x annual salary. Right now in the Seattle area median home price is about 4-5x annual salary or more.

Think your company pays competitive wages? Measure salaries in terms of regional median home price. Doesn't look so good now, does it.

Get him Jake. Every now that then Robert will talk about how great Microsoft is and I'll poke him with the "citizen microsoft" article that the Seattle Weekly ran last year. I have YET to hear a respone from MS HQ, or anyone, about that article or the fact that their chief architect/founder is decrying the public school system, but not paying their due taxes, which goes towards funding the schools their employees children attend in WA. They actually bend Seattle/King Co. over more than Boeing. Can you believe that?

Robert, you would feel this more if Patrick went to school up here instead of in CA.

Ahh this is all a cycle, GM learnt the lesson in the 80s, moving to Mexico fraught with all sorts of logistical, infrastructure and distributional cots that kill double (and more) what save in labor. The Tech industry just failing to heed the lessons of the past, everyone will freak out, and it will top and then head down.

Ain't nothing here an economic history education couldn't tell you. Tech all about "emerging" however, which is why they will repeat the mistakes of the past.