#29: I gave Douglas Engelbart a mouse and a book

Tonight I peered into the eyes of the creator.

And heard his frustration.

It all started earlier this afternoon when Buzz Bruggeman asked me in an email “want to have dinner with Douglas Engelbart?”

First of all, if you don’t know who Douglas Engelbart is you better do some reading. He invented the mouse and many of the concepts that you are now using to read my words. And he did that 40 years ago. Yes, he was that far ahead.

Oh, Buzz, do you have to ask?

Anyway, turned out he had been talking with Bill Daul, one of Doug’s friends and they quickly arranged a dinner. Six people in total. Andy Ruff, program manager on Microsoft’s Entourage team. Buzz. Doug’s friend Bill. I had a previously arranged dinner with Joseph Jaffe, so I invited him along.

What an incredible dinner. The five of us hung on every word Doug spoke. The conversation was interesting and diverse.

I filmed part of it but the restaurant was so noisy that that probably won’t be very useful.

Some key things stuck with me.

1) Doug is a frustrated inventor. He was frustrated over and over again during his career by people who just didn’t get his ideas.
2) He says he has many ideas that he hasn’t shared yet. We talked about the way the system could change from how it sees what you’re paying attention to, for instance.
3) He repeated for us the creation of the mouse. Said they still don’t know who came up with the name “mouse.” That was the part of the dinner I filmed.
4) He challenged the business people at the table (specifically looking at Andy and me) to come up with a way to increase the speed that innovations get used. He didn’t say it, but his eyes told me that taking 25 years for the world to get the mouse was too long and his career would have been a lot more interesting if people could have gotten his ideas quicker. I told him that ideas move around the world a lot faster now due to blogs and video (imagine trying to explain what Halo 2 was going to look like if all you had to describe it was ASCII text).

It was an incredible evening. One that I just can’t do justice to by writing on my blog. I got to say thank you to a real visionary who plowed forward even after everyone had told him he was nuts.

I handed him a pre-release copy of our book, wrote in the front “thank you for inventing the world that made all of this possible” and gave him the mouse that I used. Hey, he gave all of us mice, seemed to be the least I could do.

Joseph Jaffe just posted about the night. Thanks Joseph for the kind words, your ideas on the new world of marketing are inspiring.

But peering into the eyes of the creator I realized something. He’s also the best evangelist I’ve ever met. He can draw pictures and inspire in a way that few people can. And, this 80-year-old can run intellectual circles around most 25-year-olds I’ve met (and certainly runs circles around me). He’s an amazing person and certainly an American treasure.

  • http://blog.outer-court.com/ Philipp Lenssen

    Will we see the video here?

  • http://blog.outer-court.com Philipp Lenssen

    Will we see the video here?

  • http://blogs.msdn.com/alexbarn Alex Barnett

    Wow, sounds like a fantastic evening. you luck b$#@^*rd!

  • http://blogs.msdn.com/alexbarn Alex Barnett

    Wow, sounds like a fantastic evening. you luck b$#@^*rd!

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ scobleizer

    Philipp: I have to see if I can improve the audio quality. It really is hard to hear, Doug is very soft spoken and the restaurant was very noisy. I’m going to try to get it up on Channel 9.

    Alex: you have no idea. My life is surreal. I’m getting to meet people who are simply national treasures. I don’t know how to put it any other way.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ scobleizer

    Philipp: I have to see if I can improve the audio quality. It really is hard to hear, Doug is very soft spoken and the restaurant was very noisy. I’m going to try to get it up on Channel 9.

    Alex: you have no idea. My life is surreal. I’m getting to meet people who are simply national treasures. I don’t know how to put it any other way.

  • http://insight.srijith.net/ Srijith

    Don’t take it the wrong way, but I wonder why you limited such a great person’s contribution to America by stating ‘American treasure’.

  • http://insight.srijith.net Srijith

    Don’t take it the wrong way, but I wonder why you limited such a great person’s contribution to America by stating ‘American treasure’.

  • http://spaces.msn.com/members/volatilechar Dileepa P

    World treasure would have been more appropriate.

  • http://spaces.msn.com/members/volatilechar Dileepa P

    World treasure would have been more appropriate.

  • http://vasanth.in/ Vasanth Dharmaraj

    What “America” does not mean “World”? ;-)

  • http://vasanth.in Vasanth Dharmaraj

    What “America” does not mean “World”? ;-)

  • http://www.billbuchan.com/ Wild BIll

    You gave him a *second-hand* mouse ?

    And they say that scotsmen are cheap….!

    So why doesnt MS hire him ? Sounds as if he’s just the man to breathe new life into the Vista corpse!

    —* Bill

  • http://www.billbuchan.com Wild BIll

    You gave him a *second-hand* mouse ?

    And they say that scotsmen are cheap….!

    So why doesnt MS hire him ? Sounds as if he’s just the man to breathe new life into the Vista corpse!

    —* Bill

  • Farooq

    man ure lucky Scoble…damn lucky…

    Wild Bill: he wouldn’t really joing MS, let alone any other org. now but MS would definitely benefit from his consulting…

    Scoble: that post u deleted…i read the same thing on Motley Fool…i still don’t get why the post was taken down: http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2005/mft05111113.htm

  • Farooq

    man ure lucky Scoble…damn lucky…

    Wild Bill: he wouldn’t really joing MS, let alone any other org. now but MS would definitely benefit from his consulting…

    Scoble: that post u deleted…i read the same thing on Motley Fool…i still don’t get why the post was taken down: http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2005/mft05111113.htm

  • anon

    Scoble said “imagine trying to explain what Halo 2 was going to look like if all you had to describe it was ASCII text”.

    Words can be much more immersive than pictures. Pictures are much easier to spank out than words, especially if you are an analphabet and you run Windows.

  • anon

    Scoble said “imagine trying to explain what Halo 2 was going to look like if all you had to describe it was ASCII text”.

    Words can be much more immersive than pictures. Pictures are much easier to spank out than words, especially if you are an analphabet and you run Windows.

  • Jason

    cool, you lucky guy, to bad GYM did not work out… :)

  • Jason

    cool, you lucky guy, to bad GYM did not work out… :)

  • http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

    Robert…you confuse communication with invention. We can talk to each other so much faster, but we say so much less of value. You think “If a million people are talking, what wonderous ideas we’ll have”. But that’s just a committee.

    Look at MS. They have 61,000 employees, and their last few major announcements have all REEKED of “Follow someone else”. Invention happens when someone gets annoyed enough by a problem to fix it. Just like nine women can’t have a baby in a month, throwing more people at a problem can’t solve it any faster. MS is simply too big, and if the rumors of 8000+ coders out of 61,000 employees is true, well, it would explain much.

  • http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

    Robert…you confuse communication with invention. We can talk to each other so much faster, but we say so much less of value. You think “If a million people are talking, what wonderous ideas we’ll have”. But that’s just a committee.

    Look at MS. They have 61,000 employees, and their last few major announcements have all REEKED of “Follow someone else”. Invention happens when someone gets annoyed enough by a problem to fix it. Just like nine women can’t have a baby in a month, throwing more people at a problem can’t solve it any faster. MS is simply too big, and if the rumors of 8000+ coders out of 61,000 employees is true, well, it would explain much.

  • Farooq

    can’t really say that the number of employees vs innovation argument is valid…look at the breadth of areas in which Microsoft operates…I recently read an article that graphically represented all areas MS had a presence in and the major competitors in that area…and the picture wasn’t pretty…

    you can’t really innovate in all areas all the time…see how the innovation cycle is slowing down for Google…it’ll happen as they expand into many areas and their employee base increases at the same time…

  • Farooq

    can’t really say that the number of employees vs innovation argument is valid…look at the breadth of areas in which Microsoft operates…I recently read an article that graphically represented all areas MS had a presence in and the major competitors in that area…and the picture wasn’t pretty…

    you can’t really innovate in all areas all the time…see how the innovation cycle is slowing down for Google…it’ll happen as they expand into many areas and their employee base increases at the same time…

  • Jake

    Why does Microsoft focus so much on hiring 25 year olds if the experienced carry fantastic intellectual capital?

    I believe he was not only looking at you to speed up the innovation to realization process, he was indicting you. The 800 lb gorilla likes the status quo – a lot.

  • Jake

    Why does Microsoft focus so much on hiring 25 year olds if the experienced carry fantastic intellectual capital?

    I believe he was not only looking at you to speed up the innovation to realization process, he was indicting you. The 800 lb gorilla likes the status quo – a lot.

  • http://www.speakwithme.com/ Ajay

    Hey Robert,

    Did you know Doug still is a volunteer at the Computer History Museum?

    He’s an awesome guy to just sit and have a conversation with — I am so glad you had a chance to meet him!

    Next time give him some cheese. Mice like cheese, ya know!

  • http://www.speakwithme.com Ajay

    Hey Robert,

    Did you know Doug still is a volunteer at the Computer History Museum?

    He’s an awesome guy to just sit and have a conversation with — I am so glad you had a chance to meet him!

    Next time give him some cheese. Mice like cheese, ya know!

  • http://www.rjdudley.com/blog Richard Dudley

    Umm, hey, you mentioned Microsoft (“Andy Ruff, program manager on Microsoft’s Entourage team”). Still, 28 posts wasn’t bad.

  • http://www.rjdudley.com/blog Richard Dudley

    Umm, hey, you mentioned Microsoft (“Andy Ruff, program manager on Microsoft’s Entourage team”). Still, 28 posts wasn’t bad.

  • Victor J Servin

    Well, I have to say I envy you, form the first time I read about this amazing guy I imagine how wonderfull would be to met him and have a chat.
    Well You are a lucky fellow!!!
    I hope i got the chance to meet him some day to..
    VJS

  • Victor J Servin

    Well, I have to say I envy you, form the first time I read about this amazing guy I imagine how wonderfull would be to met him and have a chat.
    Well You are a lucky fellow!!!
    I hope i got the chance to meet him some day to..
    VJS

  • http://mp.blogs.com/ Michael Parekh

    Follow-up on #15 above on the “no-GYM” theme…Microsoft has a big presence in the Mouse business.

    Nevertheless, cool post…thanks.

  • http://mp.blogs.com Michael Parekh

    Follow-up on #15 above on the “no-GYM” theme…Microsoft has a big presence in the Mouse business.

    Nevertheless, cool post…thanks.

  • http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog Dare Obasanjo

    You should have given Doug a copy of Malcolm Gladwell’s “Tipping Point”. Even today, it still takes too long for innovations to make it into the mainstream. Ethernet, SQL, object oriented languages running on garbage collected VMs, etc are all decades old but only started really affecting the mainstream in the last decade. AJAX which is all the rage this year was invented last century. Dave Winer first started talking about payloads for RSS in 2001 but podcasting only took off over the past year.

    We are closing the gap from innovation to adoption but it definitely could be better. I agree that blogs and other forms of mass communication being available to the general public will only accelerate this trend.

  • http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog Dare Obasanjo

    You should have given Doug a copy of Malcolm Gladwell’s “Tipping Point”. Even today, it still takes too long for innovations to make it into the mainstream. Ethernet, SQL, object oriented languages running on garbage collected VMs, etc are all decades old but only started really affecting the mainstream in the last decade. AJAX which is all the rage this year was invented last century. Dave Winer first started talking about payloads for RSS in 2001 but podcasting only took off over the past year.

    We are closing the gap from innovation to adoption but it definitely could be better. I agree that blogs and other forms of mass communication being available to the general public will only accelerate this trend.

  • BlogReader

    He challenged the business people at the table (specifically looking at Andy and me) to come up with a way to increase the speed that innovations get used.

    You’re a businessman? Is blogging about anything that crosses your mind now considered “business”?

  • BlogReader

    He challenged the business people at the table (specifically looking at Andy and me) to come up with a way to increase the speed that innovations get used.

    You’re a businessman? Is blogging about anything that crosses your mind now considered “business”?

  • http://www.philgomes.com/blog/ Phil Gomes

    You can find the RealVideo of Dr. Engelbart’s groundbreaking 1968 demonstration here, for which he quite deservedly received a standing ovation.

    http://sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/

    I did PR for SRI (agency side) from ’97-’02 and had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Engelbart several times.

    I have a number of stories of Dr. Engelbart, but what always struck me was his frustration that people were simply satisfied with his innovations from decades ago, forgetting that there is *so* much improvement to be made. “Sure, we’ve gone from here to here, but we have THIS FAR to go!” he once said in 2001, continuing with “That’s why I’m grey — I’m really only forty.”

    Honestly, people’s tendency to tie Dr. Engelbart to the invention of the mouse (to the exclusion of almost everything else) is akin to reducing Edison’s entire ouevre to the light bulb.

    Or… As one wag put it (paraphrasing): “I don’t know what Silicon Valley will do when it runs out of Doug Engelbart’s ideas.”

  • http://www.philgomes.com/blog/ Phil Gomes

    You can find the RealVideo of Dr. Engelbart’s groundbreaking 1968 demonstration here, for which he quite deservedly received a standing ovation.

    http://sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/

    I did PR for SRI (agency side) from ’97-’02 and had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Engelbart several times.

    I have a number of stories of Dr. Engelbart, but what always struck me was his frustration that people were simply satisfied with his innovations from decades ago, forgetting that there is *so* much improvement to be made. “Sure, we’ve gone from here to here, but we have THIS FAR to go!” he once said in 2001, continuing with “That’s why I’m grey — I’m really only forty.”

    Honestly, people’s tendency to tie Dr. Engelbart to the invention of the mouse (to the exclusion of almost everything else) is akin to reducing Edison’s entire ouevre to the light bulb.

    Or… As one wag put it (paraphrasing): “I don’t know what Silicon Valley will do when it runs out of Doug Engelbart’s ideas.”

  • Goebbels

    “I told him that ideas move around the world a lot faster now due to blogs and video (imagine trying to explain what Halo 2 was going to look like if all you had to describe it was ASCII text).”

    Eww, I hope you didn’t say that to the world’s expert on human interaction with computer devices.

    I want to claim that Halo 2 is particularly special by acting as if we would have no way to fathom it if we were so crude as to perceive the world as ASCII.

    Ignore the fact that we as humans and most creatures on earth usually have eyes and even the crudest visual perceptions are far superior the computer characters.

    There’s certainly no way I could say: it looks like a 1st person landscape with fewer colors, more jagged and less real representation of objects, with all the curves or non-linear objects a bit more hard-edged or boxier….

    No, prior to last year or even the advent of video (when was that? The 70s for computers?…) that could not be described at all except by a bunch of ASCII characters.

  • Goebbels

    “I told him that ideas move around the world a lot faster now due to blogs and video (imagine trying to explain what Halo 2 was going to look like if all you had to describe it was ASCII text).”

    Eww, I hope you didn’t say that to the world’s expert on human interaction with computer devices.

    I want to claim that Halo 2 is particularly special by acting as if we would have no way to fathom it if we were so crude as to perceive the world as ASCII.

    Ignore the fact that we as humans and most creatures on earth usually have eyes and even the crudest visual perceptions are far superior the computer characters.

    There’s certainly no way I could say: it looks like a 1st person landscape with fewer colors, more jagged and less real representation of objects, with all the curves or non-linear objects a bit more hard-edged or boxier….

    No, prior to last year or even the advent of video (when was that? The 70s for computers?…) that could not be described at all except by a bunch of ASCII characters.

  • av

    Robert, your blog got its mojo back with this series of posts. In the last month or so, it seemed like an extension to Channel 9. But, with the last few posts, its back to being a blog to read for good geek stuff.

  • av

    Robert, your blog got its mojo back with this series of posts. In the last month or so, it seemed like an extension to Channel 9. But, with the last few posts, its back to being a blog to read for good geek stuff.

  • Innocent Bystander

    The question we must ask is: “Is Englebart that far ahead? Or is the industry (specifically Microsoft and Apple which dominate) that far behind?”

    A similarly interesting talk is Alan Kay’s “Are we there yet?” He points out that the average computer today is still much too rigid and too difficult to use to create things, visualize things, and experiment.

    If what you want to do doesn’t fit into one of the little “boxes” like MS Word, MS Excel, or MS powerpoint, then you’ll have to program, and programming today remains tremendously primative (C#, Java, and the current crop of languages are baby steps on the near end of a road that was paved long ago at PARC).

    Of course, Windows is set in stone. The only way to do anything is to throw the whole mess out and begin again. (See http://opencroquet.org for some folks doing this). Microsoft will reach out and crush any effort to do this as they have much too much invested in buggy whips to allow internal combustion to gain a foothold.

  • Innocent Bystander

    The question we must ask is: “Is Englebart that far ahead? Or is the industry (specifically Microsoft and Apple which dominate) that far behind?”

    A similarly interesting talk is Alan Kay’s “Are we there yet?” He points out that the average computer today is still much too rigid and too difficult to use to create things, visualize things, and experiment.

    If what you want to do doesn’t fit into one of the little “boxes” like MS Word, MS Excel, or MS powerpoint, then you’ll have to program, and programming today remains tremendously primative (C#, Java, and the current crop of languages are baby steps on the near end of a road that was paved long ago at PARC).

    Of course, Windows is set in stone. The only way to do anything is to throw the whole mess out and begin again. (See http://opencroquet.org for some folks doing this). Microsoft will reach out and crush any effort to do this as they have much too much invested in buggy whips to allow internal combustion to gain a foothold.

  • Anonymous

    About the audio of the video, I’ve found I can pull out people’s voices if I run a low pass filter. People’s voices are usually in the higher treble area then the background sound. So by adjusting a filter that clips the bass sound you can better hear people talking in a crowd. I use Final Cut Pro. Let me know what you use and I’ll see if there’s any filter that may work.

  • http://www.cirne.com Enric

    About the audio of the video, I’ve found I can pull out people’s voices if I run a low pass filter. People’s voices are usually in the higher treble area then the background sound. So by adjusting a filter that clips the bass sound you can better hear people talking in a crowd. I use Final Cut Pro. Let me know what you use and I’ll see if there’s any filter that may work.

  • http://divedi.blogspot.com/ Dimitar Vesselinov

    Large Scale Collective IQ Part II with Doug Engelbart
    http://www.futuresalon.org/2005/11/collective_iq_p.html

    IT Conversations: Doug Engelbart – Large-Scale Collective IQ
    http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail378.html

    Large-Scale Collective IQ: Facilitating its Evolution (2004)
    http://www.archive.org/details/FutureSalon_11_2004

  • http://divedi.blogspot.com/ Dimitar Vesselinov

    Large Scale Collective IQ Part II with Doug Engelbart
    http://www.futuresalon.org/2005/11/collective_iq_p.html

    IT Conversations: Doug Engelbart – Large-Scale Collective IQ
    http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail378.html

    Large-Scale Collective IQ: Facilitating its Evolution (2004)
    http://www.archive.org/details/FutureSalon_11_2004