I get blamed for lots of things. But this is the first time I’ve been blamed for making someone stand in line for an Xbox 360. Phil has a lengthy post including pictures. I love his conclusion: “Scoble, the XBox 360 is going to destroy the Playstation 3.”
But then his note turns sour. He says he’s walking away from Microsoft’s Web development tools. He’s going to Ruby on Rails and won’t be back until we get the magic back. Well, that’s what we’re working hard on and why we’re doing the Mix06 event.
One question, though. Have you checked out the latest ASP.NET and Visual Studio 2005? If so, what about it turns you to Rails?
I’ve had a discussion with other people about this issue on the LLBLGen forums and the consensus seems to be that if you’re developing a web only application and you don’t need access all of the enterprise features then RoR is the way to go, which seems to be what everyone else has come to discussing this ASP .Net vs RoR issue.
But I’m always evaluating what can help, that’s what attracted me about RoR in the first place.
I wish LLBLGen got more exposure because it’s great at what it does: create an ORM layer. It doesn’t try to be everything and that’s why it’s so perfect for ORM.
And as far as your bank using .aspx and brute forcing an attack, anyone could have done that on any platform, not just .Net. If you’re suggesting that Visual Studio makes idiots out of programmers, I agree. I think that people should have a good background in using a command line and vi through CS courses in college, but once you’ve covered the theory and have a grasp on how it all works together VS is a great tool to assist you in developing/maintaining applications quickly.
You know part of the reason RoR interested me so much is because I really really want to get rid of my Toshiba laptop and get an iBook to write code. Certaintly not the most important reason, but a nice benefit.
I’ve had a discussion with other people about this issue on the LLBLGen forums and the consensus seems to be that if you’re developing a web only application and you don’t need access all of the enterprise features then RoR is the way to go, which seems to be what everyone else has come to discussing this ASP .Net vs RoR issue.
But I’m always evaluating what can help, that’s what attracted me about RoR in the first place.
I wish LLBLGen got more exposure because it’s great at what it does: create an ORM layer. It doesn’t try to be everything and that’s why it’s so perfect for ORM.
And as far as your bank using .aspx and brute forcing an attack, anyone could have done that on any platform, not just .Net. If you’re suggesting that Visual Studio makes idiots out of programmers, I agree. I think that people should have a good background in using a command line and vi through CS courses in college, but once you’ve covered the theory and have a grasp on how it all works together VS is a great tool to assist you in developing/maintaining applications quickly.
You know part of the reason RoR interested me so much is because I really really want to get rid of my Toshiba laptop and get an iBook to write code. Certaintly not the most important reason, but a nice benefit.
Hello, very interesting comments.
I am a team leader in a software company in Romania – we developed an ERP based on a client – server architecture (visual foxpro clients – oracle database).
The problem wich we are faced is that we need to make user interface on web for some parts of the ERP, but we want to maintain also the desktop applications.
We discussed about the strategy to take – and concluded that we need to develope a bussiness layer physically separated from the user interface and the data layer that we can use in the desktop applications and in the web applications.
In Visual Foxpro we want to use ComCodebook (free framework) to make dll’s that we can use in an ASP.NET app (PHP/ASP, but we incline towards ASP.NET) as datasource bussines objects and also in our Visual Foxpro apps.
We already tried it on a small internal project to see how it works.
This would lead to .NET.
For now we don’t have anyone who has worked before with asp.net apps or even with .net apps – so, if we take this route – we must all learn .net.
I am very excited with ROR after taking Curt Hibbs’s tutorial – I feel my coleagues will too. I think the learning curve is be much flatter than on Asp.Net.
Before I can talk with my coleagues about ROR as an alternative I want to ask a couple of questions.
First question – ROR knows how to work with bussiness objects wrapped in dll’s?
The second one – Is it even possible to make bussines logic code that we can use in ROR and in a Visual Foxpro app?
Hello, very interesting comments.
I am a team leader in a software company in Romania – we developed an ERP based on a client – server architecture (visual foxpro clients – oracle database).
The problem wich we are faced is that we need to make user interface on web for some parts of the ERP, but we want to maintain also the desktop applications.
We discussed about the strategy to take – and concluded that we need to develope a bussiness layer physically separated from the user interface and the data layer that we can use in the desktop applications and in the web applications.
In Visual Foxpro we want to use ComCodebook (free framework) to make dll’s that we can use in an ASP.NET app (PHP/ASP, but we incline towards ASP.NET) as datasource bussines objects and also in our Visual Foxpro apps.
We already tried it on a small internal project to see how it works.
This would lead to .NET.
For now we don’t have anyone who has worked before with asp.net apps or even with .net apps – so, if we take this route – we must all learn .net.
I am very excited with ROR after taking Curt Hibbs’s tutorial – I feel my coleagues will too. I think the learning curve is be much flatter than on Asp.Net.
Before I can talk with my coleagues about ROR as an alternative I want to ask a couple of questions.
First question – ROR knows how to work with bussiness objects wrapped in dll’s?
The second one – Is it even possible to make bussines logic code that we can use in ROR and in a Visual Foxpro app?
I love both RoR and .NET, but RoR is my first choice these days. I have only 2 points to contribute here:…
Discovering Rails shook my confidence in Microsoft. I remember thinking “Why isn’t ASP.NET as nice as this? I almost *expect* Microsoft to be better than this little open source movement…”. They have such abundance of good people and skills yet ASP.NET didn’t come close to the elegance and feel-good-factor of Rails, in my opinion at least. That’s not encouraging, I’m suddenly in a position where I’m questioning Microsofts ability to their job as a vendor of development tools.
One thing I do love about .NET over RoR is the abundence of polished, professional and robust components and libraries available. I know that if my client needs sophisticated multi-lingual reporting then I can go out and find 10 potential component vendors who will sell me something pretty solid, and respond to my support requests within 12 hours. This gives me confidence that I don’t always get when developing a RoR app. However, I’d love to see a commercial component market open up around RoR that can offer such things!
There’s my 2 pence worth!
I love both RoR and .NET, but RoR is my first choice these days. I have only 2 points to contribute here:…
Discovering Rails shook my confidence in Microsoft. I remember thinking “Why isn’t ASP.NET as nice as this? I almost *expect* Microsoft to be better than this little open source movement…”. They have such abundance of good people and skills yet ASP.NET didn’t come close to the elegance and feel-good-factor of Rails, in my opinion at least. That’s not encouraging, I’m suddenly in a position where I’m questioning Microsofts ability to their job as a vendor of development tools.
One thing I do love about .NET over RoR is the abundence of polished, professional and robust components and libraries available. I know that if my client needs sophisticated multi-lingual reporting then I can go out and find 10 potential component vendors who will sell me something pretty solid, and respond to my support requests within 12 hours. This gives me confidence that I don’t always get when developing a RoR app. However, I’d love to see a commercial component market open up around RoR that can offer such things!
There’s my 2 pence worth!
I hate to say this for many reasons (my company Xtras.Net sells .NET tools and also because the cult-leader-like behavior of the Rail creators), but Ruby On Rails has many, many things over ASP.NET 2.0. It appears it was designed as “pragmatic” as opposed to Microsoft’s “visionary.” What’s more, the paradigm of ASP.NET is, IMO, all wrong. The forms/controls paradigm with VIEWSTATE and __DoPostBack() and very little use of real-world patterns. Microsoft usually solves 85% of the problem but then leaves developers to repeatedly reinvent the wheel with the remaining 15%. I think one of the key reasons is Microsoft’s developer division architects don’t actually use their tools to create real-world apps. The RoR folks do. Necessity is the mother of invention. What I think Microsoft should do is provide a grant to the MonoRail folks so they can add a bunch of full time programmers to the project so that it can grow and become a mature alternative to RoR. But if they do, Microsoft shouldn’t control it. Instead, the team should look to get as many real-world projects implemented using MonoRail as possible, and offer seats on the paid developer team to people who would be a MonoRail liason between a real world project and also be on the MonoRail developer team. I’d sign up for that and rebuild http://www.xtras.net and http://www.howtoselectguides.com using MonoRail.
I hate to say this for many reasons (my company Xtras.Net sells .NET tools and also because the cult-leader-like behavior of the Rail creators), but Ruby On Rails has many, many things over ASP.NET 2.0. It appears it was designed as “pragmatic” as opposed to Microsoft’s “visionary.” What’s more, the paradigm of ASP.NET is, IMO, all wrong. The forms/controls paradigm with VIEWSTATE and __DoPostBack() and very little use of real-world patterns. Microsoft usually solves 85% of the problem but then leaves developers to repeatedly reinvent the wheel with the remaining 15%. I think one of the key reasons is Microsoft’s developer division architects don’t actually use their tools to create real-world apps. The RoR folks do. Necessity is the mother of invention. What I think Microsoft should do is provide a grant to the MonoRail folks so they can add a bunch of full time programmers to the project so that it can grow and become a mature alternative to RoR. But if they do, Microsoft shouldn’t control it. Instead, the team should look to get as many real-world projects implemented using MonoRail as possible, and offer seats on the paid developer team to people who would be a MonoRail liason between a real world project and also be on the MonoRail developer team. I’d sign up for that and rebuild http://www.xtras.net and http://www.howtoselectguides.com using MonoRail.
.NET on Xbox 360
http://blogs.msdn.com/mikezintel/archive/2006/03/14/550958.aspx
.NET on Xbox 360
http://blogs.msdn.com/mikezintel/archive/2006/03/14/550958.aspx
[...] Interpreting the language (Ruby, Python, whatever) to native JVM/CLR bytecode is only half the battle however. When the standard libraries for those languages are implemented through the underlying capabilities of java.* or System.* things will really get cooking. In my opinion, whichever of the JVM or CLR can get Ruby (and Rails) to run seamlessly on their platforms first will win a lot of kudos in the enterprise space as they will gain the productivity of Ruby/Rails, plus the integration with alot of ‘native’ Java/.NET code. The JRuby project is already making progress in this direction (albeit without Sun’s help). Scoble asked late last year what MS could do to make ASP.NET development more appealing. Get Ruby & Rails to run on the CLR, that’s how! [...]
I am a software engg. and before days i m working in .NET but now days i m working in Rails. i Think its a more user friendly compair to .NET.
I am a software engg. and before days i m working in .NET but now days i m working in Rails. i Think its a more user friendly compair to .NET.
I am in the process of early design/architecture of a multiplayer computer game. As part of my never-ending search for knowledge, I ran across ruby on the XProgramming.com site by Ron Jeffries, and that led me to Ruby on Rails, which led me to Ajaz… and fell in love with the ruby language syntax. I liked python, but either it or I was not up to enterprise/bet my paycheck standards for larger projects.
Anyhow, after reading enough of the Programming Ruby book, I decided to give Linux another chance (I’d tried a SuSe, version 4 or 5, and Mandrake, versions 6-8. I searched through my cd collection, found a copy of DSL Linux, noted that my newer computer had more than 50 mb free drive space, and used the Mepis burn instead.
Well, it had ruby 1.8.2 and, more importantly, did not have irb, RDoc and a couple other things. And the Debian apt-get said, sorry, ask again later. So I gritted my teeth and installed ruby from source. And it gave ruby -v -> 1.8.2. I modified Makefile to use /usr instead oof /usr/local. ruby -v -> 1.8.2. Hmmm.
After a snack, I modified config for /usr instead of /usr. ruby -v 1.8.4! I verified that Hello, world and irb ran, intalled gems and installed rails. Due to not using Linux/root for about 5 years, this project (from deciding I wanted Linux at home to getting a rails project running) took – almost 8 hours.
How long would it take, from deciding I needed a new version of Windows to installing a major new app on my new OS, with major glitches at each step? (I omitted the glitches for brevity). A week? Three weeks? $1500? An MSDN purchase?
Oh, yes. I was a software developer from 1974 to 2002. My last project was a conversion TO IBM 390 MVS (that’s to, not from). Before that, I was a .NET developer (anyone want a few beta 2 coasters?).
Anyhow, I’m advising my friends to short MSFT and SUNW, and hedge with a long AMD. I expect major new developments will encourage sales of new computers. The biggest of these is new apps using ruby/rails/ajax flying out the door in 3-9 months.
Anyone hiring RoR programmers?
I am in the process of early design/architecture of a multiplayer computer game. As part of my never-ending search for knowledge, I ran across ruby on the XProgramming.com site by Ron Jeffries, and that led me to Ruby on Rails, which led me to Ajaz… and fell in love with the ruby language syntax. I liked python, but either it or I was not up to enterprise/bet my paycheck standards for larger projects.
Anyhow, after reading enough of the Programming Ruby book, I decided to give Linux another chance (I’d tried a SuSe, version 4 or 5, and Mandrake, versions 6-8. I searched through my cd collection, found a copy of DSL Linux, noted that my newer computer had more than 50 mb free drive space, and used the Mepis burn instead.
Well, it had ruby 1.8.2 and, more importantly, did not have irb, RDoc and a couple other things. And the Debian apt-get said, sorry, ask again later. So I gritted my teeth and installed ruby from source. And it gave ruby -v -> 1.8.2. I modified Makefile to use /usr instead oof /usr/local. ruby -v -> 1.8.2. Hmmm.
After a snack, I modified config for /usr instead of /usr. ruby -v 1.8.4! I verified that Hello, world and irb ran, intalled gems and installed rails. Due to not using Linux/root for about 5 years, this project (from deciding I wanted Linux at home to getting a rails project running) took – almost 8 hours.
How long would it take, from deciding I needed a new version of Windows to installing a major new app on my new OS, with major glitches at each step? (I omitted the glitches for brevity). A week? Three weeks? $1500? An MSDN purchase?
Oh, yes. I was a software developer from 1974 to 2002. My last project was a conversion TO IBM 390 MVS (that’s to, not from). Before that, I was a .NET developer (anyone want a few beta 2 coasters?).
Anyhow, I’m advising my friends to short MSFT and SUNW, and hedge with a long AMD. I expect major new developments will encourage sales of new computers. The biggest of these is new apps using ruby/rails/ajax flying out the door in 3-9 months.
Anyone hiring RoR programmers?
[...] Microsoft’s Robert Scoble wants to know why developers are leaving .NET for Ruby on Rails. The post itself is short, but there are a lot of comments posted. [...]
[...] Yesterday, I commented on a blog post by Microsoft’s Robert Scoble who asked why developers are leaving .NET for Ruby on Rails. As I said then, the post itself was short, but there were many comments posted, and a lot of those posts directly answered his question. [...]
Hey Guys u know abt X box 360. its really interesting & exciting.just checkout this wwbsite.
Hey Guys u know abt X box 360. its really interesting & exciting.just checkout this wwbsite.
Hey Guys u know abt X box 360. its really interesting & exciting.just checkout this wwbsite.