Dual booting Windows on new Macs…

I got VERY close to plunking down $2,000 for one of those new MacBooks that Apple came out with. Why? Cause it is able to dual boot both Windows and Mac OSX and I wanted to have a machine that could have run both. An article showing how to do this is on Memeorandum right now.

But Steve Jobs pulled one of his favorite tricks. He removed a popular IO system and put in a new slot that no one uses yet. It’s called an ExpressCard. I’m sure it’ll be very cool soon, but today there’s no peripherals that use this.

Why does this matter? Well, go down to Sprint and ask for an EVDO card. Or Verizon. Or Cingular. They all have them. I would say these are all now NECESSARY for a traveling businessperson. I just got one yesterday and I’ve said goodbye to Wifi forever. My friends are all buying them (Phillip Torrone showed me his running on his 17-inch Apple Powerbook at Macworld expo).

Now that I have this capability I’ll never buy a machine that isn’t compatible. Torrone told me that’s why he’s not buying one of the new Macs either.

How about you?

By the way, I say this is a Steve Jobs trick because he famously pulled a floppy drive out of his NeXT computer which made it very futuristic (very few computers today have floppy drives, just 17 years later) but also made it hard to use at the time.

Comments

  1. Someone has to break these technologies in. It’s funny that it always seems to be Apple (Desktop SCSI, FireWire, floppyless computing, USB, an all-in-one computer that actually sells well, and now ExpressCard)

    I thing I don’t get though… Couldn’t you just fire up the bluetooth and use your phone to grant internet access to the computer? that’s kind of been my plan all along.

  2. Someone has to break these technologies in. It’s funny that it always seems to be Apple (Desktop SCSI, FireWire, floppyless computing, USB, an all-in-one computer that actually sells well, and now ExpressCard)

    I thing I don’t get though… Couldn’t you just fire up the bluetooth and use your phone to grant internet access to the computer? that’s kind of been my plan all along.

  3. Oh, yeah… and that link to dual booting the mac, his idea falls apart on step 1:

    Using the Bootable Acronis Disk Director CD on the MacBook, shrink the Mac partition. Create a new partition of type NTFS/HPFS in the remaining space.

    As far as I know, the new iMacs won’t boot linux CDs any better than they boot Windows CDs, so it won’t boot Acronis, either.

    That link is getting far too much play for a guy who’s just theorizing when there are people out there actually working on the problem (and in some cases turning their iMacs into expensive paperweights for the cause)

  4. Oh, yeah… and that link to dual booting the mac, his idea falls apart on step 1:

    Using the Bootable Acronis Disk Director CD on the MacBook, shrink the Mac partition. Create a new partition of type NTFS/HPFS in the remaining space.

    As far as I know, the new iMacs won’t boot linux CDs any better than they boot Windows CDs, so it won’t boot Acronis, either.

    That link is getting far too much play for a guy who’s just theorizing when there are people out there actually working on the problem (and in some cases turning their iMacs into expensive paperweights for the cause)

  5. It’s called progress :-) I wouldn’t call it a trick, Jobs just forces one to take steps forward rather than running in place. But yes, if you need EVDO now you’ll need to hold off a bit.

  6. It’s called progress :-) I wouldn’t call it a trick, Jobs just forces one to take steps forward rather than running in place. But yes, if you need EVDO now you’ll need to hold off a bit.

  7. Monday morning snark: THAT’s what you get for being an edge case, Robert! Ha!

    I dunno about the US, but here in Europe EVDO (or UMTS) is still very much in the early adopter phase, which means connectivity is patchy, prices are high, and data limits are low.

    ps. I’ve been dualbooting OSX since the first VMware hack, but that aside.

  8. Monday morning snark: THAT’s what you get for being an edge case, Robert! Ha!

    I dunno about the US, but here in Europe EVDO (or UMTS) is still very much in the early adopter phase, which means connectivity is patchy, prices are high, and data limits are low.

    ps. I’ve been dualbooting OSX since the first VMware hack, but that aside.

  9. But Steve Jobs pulled one of his favorite tricks. He removed a popular IO system and put in a new slot that no one uses yet.

    I guess it’s a conspiracy since Dell, Toshiba and Acer are up to the same “tricks.”

    All are shipping laptops with ExpressCard instead of PCMCIA, which is part of Intel’s M915 PCI Express chipset and significantly faster than the outdated PCMCIA standard. Notably, the Dell Inspiron 1300 shipped with ExpressCard in late 2005.

    Rumor has it Kyocera is working on a ExpressCard/34 solution but no official announcement has been made. More information on EvDO and ExpressCard/34 options for the MacBookPro can be found here….

    http://www.evdoinfo.com/Tips/PC_5220/MacBook_Pro_and_EVDO_20060111671/

  10. But Steve Jobs pulled one of his favorite tricks. He removed a popular IO system and put in a new slot that no one uses yet.

    I guess it’s a conspiracy since Dell, Toshiba and Acer are up to the same “tricks.”

    All are shipping laptops with ExpressCard instead of PCMCIA, which is part of Intel’s M915 PCI Express chipset and significantly faster than the outdated PCMCIA standard. Notably, the Dell Inspiron 1300 shipped with ExpressCard in late 2005.

    Rumor has it Kyocera is working on a ExpressCard/34 solution but no official announcement has been made. More information on EvDO and ExpressCard/34 options for the MacBookPro can be found here….

    http://www.evdoinfo.com/Tips/PC_5220/MacBook_Pro_and_EVDO_20060111671/

  11. Every Intel Core Duo based laptop I have seen so far has an ExpressCard slot instead of a PCMCIA/CardBus slot.

    Don’t blame Apple, blame Intel! ;)

  12. Every Intel Core Duo based laptop I have seen so far has an ExpressCard slot instead of a PCMCIA/CardBus slot.

    Don’t blame Apple, blame Intel! ;)

  13. Alright, I spoke too soon in my previous comment (#16). Gateway looks like they’re selling an Intel Core Duo based laptop with a PC Card II slot. But Dell, HP, and Toshiba all have ExpressCard/54 or ExpressCard/34 on their systems, instead of PC Card.

  14. Alright, I spoke too soon in my previous comment (#16). Gateway looks like they’re selling an Intel Core Duo based laptop with a PC Card II slot. But Dell, HP, and Toshiba all have ExpressCard/54 or ExpressCard/34 on their systems, instead of PC Card.

  15. “I dunno about the US, but here in Europe EVDO (or UMTS) is still very much in the early adopter phase, which means connectivity is patchy, prices are high, and data limits are low.”

    Where do you live?? In Germany you get a flatrate for €39 per month with unlimited bandwidth and time. Only VOIP doesn’t work, except Skpye since they have an agrement. A soultion is to VPN into my home computer and than use VOIP :-)
    The coverage is also good. All cities and lots of towns are available. Check it out: http://www.eplus.de/tarife/6/6_4/6_4.asp
    Just email or MSN me (infos are on my website) if you have questions or need a translation.

  16. “I dunno about the US, but here in Europe EVDO (or UMTS) is still very much in the early adopter phase, which means connectivity is patchy, prices are high, and data limits are low.”

    Where do you live?? In Germany you get a flatrate for €39 per month with unlimited bandwidth and time. Only VOIP doesn’t work, except Skpye since they have an agrement. A soultion is to VPN into my home computer and than use VOIP :-)
    The coverage is also good. All cities and lots of towns are available. Check it out: http://www.eplus.de/tarife/6/6_4/6_4.asp
    Just email or MSN me (infos are on my website) if you have questions or need a translation.

  17. We should also mentioned other similar “Steve Jobs” Tricks. He took the floppy out of the iMac and substituted by USB. Damn! Did that fail! Then he actually put an 802.11b card on a laptop! What a doofus! I mean, does any of his ideas ever pan out? Like that Mp3 player and digital music store… man, what a joke! Thankfully Microsoft has been making much better and successful technology on all of those fields…

  18. We should also mentioned other similar “Steve Jobs” Tricks. He took the floppy out of the iMac and substituted by USB. Damn! Did that fail! Then he actually put an 802.11b card on a laptop! What a doofus! I mean, does any of his ideas ever pan out? Like that Mp3 player and digital music store… man, what a joke! Thankfully Microsoft has been making much better and successful technology on all of those fields…

  19. Pure. Unadulterated. FUD.

    Somehow I doubt very much that you ever intended to buy a mac, the whole post reads like you’re setting the scene for a ‘constructively critical’ post, just before you drop in the ‘but it doesn’t support legacy products’ bombshell.

    Are you worried that people will buy a Mac and try OSX first before they try out Vista (if they indeed can) – sure there is an article on how to hack it together, but isn’t that one of the popular criticisms of Linux?

    Unsubscribed.

  20. Pure. Unadulterated. FUD.

    Somehow I doubt very much that you ever intended to buy a mac, the whole post reads like you’re setting the scene for a ‘constructively critical’ post, just before you drop in the ‘but it doesn’t support legacy products’ bombshell.

    Are you worried that people will buy a Mac and try OSX first before they try out Vista (if they indeed can) – sure there is an article on how to hack it together, but isn’t that one of the popular criticisms of Linux?

    Unsubscribed.

  21. Alfredo: you didn’t read carefully. I already made the same point you did.

    Yes, Steve Jobs is always right.

    But only in the longterm.

    Short term he makes it hard to use his products.

  22. Alfredo: you didn’t read carefully. I already made the same point you did.

    Yes, Steve Jobs is always right.

    But only in the longterm.

    Short term he makes it hard to use his products.

  23. I believe ExpressCard versions of those cards are being worked on; specifically I know that Verizon will offer one soon

  24. I believe ExpressCard versions of those cards are being worked on; specifically I know that Verizon will offer one soon

  25. I thought you were an edge case Scoble. I thought you led with new technologies and others followed.

    Of course, Apple never establishes new technologies by leading. Oh wait.

  26. I thought you were an edge case Scoble. I thought you led with new technologies and others followed.

    Of course, Apple never establishes new technologies by leading. Oh wait.

  27. [...] I was just reading Scoble’s blog entry that talks about EVDO and his experiences and one of the entries in the comment caught my eye. David Rupp pointed out the Kyocera KR1 Broadband EVDO Router that has built In WiFi and basically rebroadcasts EVDO over WiFi (using 802.11g). In addition, it offers 4 10/100 Ethernet ports and works with a ton of EVDO cards. This is awesome and I can’t wait for these devices and EVDO services to become mainstream [...]

  28. Scoble,

    When you’ve created over sixty billion dollars in shareholder value, maybe people will look to you for advice.

    Three is a solution on the way for running legacy windoze apps on an intel mac, and it’s coming from your very own employer, the Evil Empire. Just wait for Virtual PC, or better still, convince the VMWare guys to support OS X.

    The only safe way to run any microsoft OS, is under emulation. It will still get infected, but you can revert to a previous state of the virtual disk. Letting windows actually boot the hardware is like taking a bareback tour of third-world whorehouses.

    Oh, and if you think that XP would make a Mac “easier to use”, I should probably tip off the DEA about whatever it is you’re smoking.

  29. Scoble,

    When you’ve created over sixty billion dollars in shareholder value, maybe people will look to you for advice.

    Three is a solution on the way for running legacy windoze apps on an intel mac, and it’s coming from your very own employer, the Evil Empire. Just wait for Virtual PC, or better still, convince the VMWare guys to support OS X.

    The only safe way to run any microsoft OS, is under emulation. It will still get infected, but you can revert to a previous state of the virtual disk. Letting windows actually boot the hardware is like taking a bareback tour of third-world whorehouses.

    Oh, and if you think that XP would make a Mac “easier to use”, I should probably tip off the DEA about whatever it is you’re smoking.

  30. No need to blame Intel, I have a Fujitsu Siemens notebook (A1667) which also has an Express card slot only (AVM has already released an ISDN express card months ago).

    Indeed, hardware support is in no way broad – but why do you want a 32-Bit Intel Mac at all? Isn’t that buying a dead cow – unless you are sure that all your favorite software doesn’t requiere lame Rosetta emulation? Do you really want to run your Photoshop 500% slower?

  31. No need to blame Intel, I have a Fujitsu Siemens notebook (A1667) which also has an Express card slot only (AVM has already released an ISDN express card months ago).

    Indeed, hardware support is in no way broad – but why do you want a 32-Bit Intel Mac at all? Isn’t that buying a dead cow – unless you are sure that all your favorite software doesn’t requiere lame Rosetta emulation? Do you really want to run your Photoshop 500% slower?

  32. I just realized the title of this entry is a bit misleading. The title references dual booting these new Macs, but really the entry is about how you can’t use your EVDO with them.

    Also, call me cynical, but I seriously doubt that is the reason you won’t be buying one. When ExpressCard versions of these come out, will that be the last straw? Or will some other hurdle pop up?

  33. I just realized the title of this entry is a bit misleading. The title references dual booting these new Macs, but really the entry is about how you can’t use your EVDO with them.

    Also, call me cynical, but I seriously doubt that is the reason you won’t be buying one. When ExpressCard versions of these come out, will that be the last straw? Or will some other hurdle pop up?

  34. This is really cool. Although looking at the coverage of broadband access for Verizon (my carrier) I think I’ll wait till the coverage is more apparent. Although it does have coverage for my home city (Rochester, NY) the cost of it doesn’t justify it to take over for my wireless router at home which is about $10 cheaper. And since I use my laptop at work and home primarily I don’t have a need to use it more on the road.

    I travel occasionally and there is no coverage in my travel routes to make this worthwhile…for now.

    I’ll keep my eyes on it this is exciting.

    I would love to see the carries make integrated chipsets for use in laptops so you don’t have the pci card sticking out.

  35. This is really cool. Although looking at the coverage of broadband access for Verizon (my carrier) I think I’ll wait till the coverage is more apparent. Although it does have coverage for my home city (Rochester, NY) the cost of it doesn’t justify it to take over for my wireless router at home which is about $10 cheaper. And since I use my laptop at work and home primarily I don’t have a need to use it more on the road.

    I travel occasionally and there is no coverage in my travel routes to make this worthwhile…for now.

    I’ll keep my eyes on it this is exciting.

    I would love to see the carries make integrated chipsets for use in laptops so you don’t have the pci card sticking out.

  36. i just wanted to point out that expresscard has been added to centrino platform when sonoma came out. at that time, most of the notebooks were still manufactured with pcmcia support (not that it’s such a long time ago :) it’s been stated that expresscard is here to replace pcmcia cards about the time napa hits mainstream. though i see, it’s been already pointed out :)

  37. i just wanted to point out that expresscard has been added to centrino platform when sonoma came out. at that time, most of the notebooks were still manufactured with pcmcia support (not that it’s such a long time ago :) it’s been stated that expresscard is here to replace pcmcia cards about the time napa hits mainstream. though i see, it’s been already pointed out :)

  38. yeah, and stefen (comment 28), i don’t think it’s apple apps, or mac os, he wants to run on the macbook :)

  39. yeah, and stefen (comment 28), i don’t think it’s apple apps, or mac os, he wants to run on the macbook :)

  40. Jeremy: actually you can get a preview of Windows Vista right now.

    Robert, you’re not going to buy a Mac so don’t even pretend the reason is lack of an expresscard slot for EVDO.

    Everybody knows the day a Windows-based tablet PC comes out with next-generation PCMCIA technology you’ll buy it regardless of whether any cards are immediately available, regardless of whether the drivers are mature, etc.

    That’s the way it is with you.

    For an edge case, you sure act like a jerk about other edge cases when it’s your employer’s competitors pushing the envelope.

    Oh, and the reason bluetooth is discouraged is because Windows XP SP2′s bluetooth stack is very, very weak – about as weak as the wireless networking stack was pre-SP2 (it’s much, much better in SP2).

  41. Jeremy: actually you can get a preview of Windows Vista right now.

    Robert, you’re not going to buy a Mac so don’t even pretend the reason is lack of an expresscard slot for EVDO.

    Everybody knows the day a Windows-based tablet PC comes out with next-generation PCMCIA technology you’ll buy it regardless of whether any cards are immediately available, regardless of whether the drivers are mature, etc.

    That’s the way it is with you.

    For an edge case, you sure act like a jerk about other edge cases when it’s your employer’s competitors pushing the envelope.

    Oh, and the reason bluetooth is discouraged is because Windows XP SP2′s bluetooth stack is very, very weak – about as weak as the wireless networking stack was pre-SP2 (it’s much, much better in SP2).

  42. Looks like the server for that article is down. Memorandumed? :P

    Also, given that EVDO and whatnot are still a way off out here in Australia, Scoble’s point doesn’t apply so if someone gets this hack going, that guy’s in the money (that contest is over $8000 now) and I’ll seriously consider a Mac.

    (and anyway, who the hell pays for $80 of mobile broadband service unless you’re travelling near constantly?)

    I think the main reason Scoble would avoid full praise of the Mac product is that Apple isn’t just a software company with respect to PCs, so hardware – even if it runs Windows – is going to put money in Apple’s pockets.

  43. Looks like the server for that article is down. Memorandumed? :P

    Also, given that EVDO and whatnot are still a way off out here in Australia, Scoble’s point doesn’t apply so if someone gets this hack going, that guy’s in the money (that contest is over $8000 now) and I’ll seriously consider a Mac.

    (and anyway, who the hell pays for $80 of mobile broadband service unless you’re travelling near constantly?)

    I think the main reason Scoble would avoid full praise of the Mac product is that Apple isn’t just a software company with respect to PCs, so hardware – even if it runs Windows – is going to put money in Apple’s pockets.

  44. i’m going to get a 17″ macbook pro with whatever new evdo card if/when that comes out. i need the pixels and the evdo in a portable, i suspect they’ll be out in a year or less – but i’m holding off on the first gen for now.

  45. i’m going to get a 17″ macbook pro with whatever new evdo card if/when that comes out. i need the pixels and the evdo in a portable, i suspect they’ll be out in a year or less – but i’m holding off on the first gen for now.

  46. But Steve Jobs pulled one of his favorite tricks. He removed a popular IO system and put in a new slot that no one uses yet. It’s called an ExpressCard.

    ExpressCard, an Apple conspiracy? Well wow, I wonder why Microsoft, Dell, HP, Acer, Gateway and Intel are all supporting it then? ANd why it will be on all Intell Dual Core’s from here to eternity?

    You dingbat, it’s the next standard (it came out in 2003, where yah been?), even in all Dual Core laptops, which would be more prevelent had it not been for Intel’s pushing the schedule ahead. It has ZERO to do with Steve Jobs magic tricks or hat-trick rabbits or anything, he just adopted it. Plus there is a push to sync everything by shipping dates.

    Like, yah know, maybe, like, totally, like, use, like, that there Google thingamjig and do like, some, like research, like, before you, like, go tubular on like some, like, wild conspiracy theory. Like, gag me with a Starbucks spoon.

    http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/qa.jsp

    The ExpressCard standard was created by a broad coalition of PCMCIA member companies, including Dell, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Intel, Lexar Media, Microsoft, SCM Microsystems and Texas Instruments. PCMCIA developed the new standard with assistance from the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF*) and the PCI-SIG* (Peripheral Component Interconnect-Special Interest Group). PCMCIA is a non-profit trade association founded in 1989 to establish technical standards for PC Card technology and to promote interchangeability among computer systems.

  47. But Steve Jobs pulled one of his favorite tricks. He removed a popular IO system and put in a new slot that no one uses yet. It’s called an ExpressCard.

    ExpressCard, an Apple conspiracy? Well wow, I wonder why Microsoft, Dell, HP, Acer, Gateway and Intel are all supporting it then? ANd why it will be on all Intell Dual Core’s from here to eternity?

    You dingbat, it’s the next standard (it came out in 2003, where yah been?), even in all Dual Core laptops, which would be more prevelent had it not been for Intel’s pushing the schedule ahead. It has ZERO to do with Steve Jobs magic tricks or hat-trick rabbits or anything, he just adopted it. Plus there is a push to sync everything by shipping dates.

    Like, yah know, maybe, like, totally, like, use, like, that there Google thingamjig and do like, some, like research, like, before you, like, go tubular on like some, like, wild conspiracy theory. Like, gag me with a Starbucks spoon.

    http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/qa.jsp

    The ExpressCard standard was created by a broad coalition of PCMCIA member companies, including Dell, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Intel, Lexar Media, Microsoft, SCM Microsystems and Texas Instruments. PCMCIA developed the new standard with assistance from the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF*) and the PCI-SIG* (Peripheral Component Interconnect-Special Interest Group). PCMCIA is a non-profit trade association founded in 1989 to establish technical standards for PC Card technology and to promote interchangeability among computer systems.

  48. Firstly, no one’s addressed this yet:

    “They all have them. I would say these are all now NECESSARY for a traveling businessperson. I just got one yesterday and I’ve said goodbye to Wifi forever.”

    It is “NECESSARY”, but you just got it YESTERDAY?

    Uh huh. You lived without it for a year, but you couldn’t do without it for another month or two (during which time you probably couldn’t even get a MacBook).

    Whatever! This is a really, really pathetic comment.

    Secondly, as has been pointed out, this article is full of shit so you don’t know if Vista will run on a MacBook yet. MacBooks are not out yet so you couldn’t test it or even purchase one yet.

    And Vista is not a product yet. And don’t try to compare a software sub-beta with a hardware component: I’m sure there are EVDO cards being tested. Just because you don’t have one doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    “Alfredo: you didn’t read carefully. I already made the same point you did.”

    You didn’t read Alfredo carefully. The point was you used a lame example from decades ago from a company is not even Apple to claim it’s a “trick” that makes things “hard” when in fact it’s progress that has been done over and over again by Apple to move the whole PC industry forward.

  49. Firstly, no one’s addressed this yet:

    “They all have them. I would say these are all now NECESSARY for a traveling businessperson. I just got one yesterday and I’ve said goodbye to Wifi forever.”

    It is “NECESSARY”, but you just got it YESTERDAY?

    Uh huh. You lived without it for a year, but you couldn’t do without it for another month or two (during which time you probably couldn’t even get a MacBook).

    Whatever! This is a really, really pathetic comment.

    Secondly, as has been pointed out, this article is full of shit so you don’t know if Vista will run on a MacBook yet. MacBooks are not out yet so you couldn’t test it or even purchase one yet.

    And Vista is not a product yet. And don’t try to compare a software sub-beta with a hardware component: I’m sure there are EVDO cards being tested. Just because you don’t have one doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    “Alfredo: you didn’t read carefully. I already made the same point you did.”

    You didn’t read Alfredo carefully. The point was you used a lame example from decades ago from a company is not even Apple to claim it’s a “trick” that makes things “hard” when in fact it’s progress that has been done over and over again by Apple to move the whole PC industry forward.

  50. We have actually heard from Verizon sources who said they are hoping to have an ExpressCard version of an EV-DO card available in time for – or close to – the time that Apple starts shipping the MacBooks. We are still a couple of weeks away from that, and in the meantime, I don’t mind tethering my phone to the MacBook over USB or Bluetooth. ExpressCard is the “wave of the future” as far as notebook expandable card slots go. I actually look forward to seeing the ExpressCard EV-DO cards ship.

    One other thing about Robert’s post – it isn’t only Apple that is shipping laptops without the PMCIA. This is actually related to the Intel Core Duo chip. Even Dell is shipping notebook PCs with an ExpressCard instead of the PMCIA slot.
    Now, to solve all of this confusion, where are the USB EV-DO devices??

  51. We have actually heard from Verizon sources who said they are hoping to have an ExpressCard version of an EV-DO card available in time for – or close to – the time that Apple starts shipping the MacBooks. We are still a couple of weeks away from that, and in the meantime, I don’t mind tethering my phone to the MacBook over USB or Bluetooth. ExpressCard is the “wave of the future” as far as notebook expandable card slots go. I actually look forward to seeing the ExpressCard EV-DO cards ship.

    One other thing about Robert’s post – it isn’t only Apple that is shipping laptops without the PMCIA. This is actually related to the Intel Core Duo chip. Even Dell is shipping notebook PCs with an ExpressCard instead of the PMCIA slot.
    Now, to solve all of this confusion, where are the USB EV-DO devices??

  52. A minor clarification (for what its worth), EV-DO is an extension of CDMA services capable of >800kbps, and should be avaliable from Sprint or Verizon in the US. GSM carriers offer EDGE/GPRS (so called “2.5G”) or UTMS (3G), which offers 400-700kbps downloads (with faster bursts). Cingular is a GSM carrier offering UTMS….although I suppose it makes exactly no difference if it works and there is coverage in your area–but the cards aren’t compatible between EV-DO and UTMS networks (AFAIK).

  53. A minor clarification (for what its worth), EV-DO is an extension of CDMA services capable of >800kbps, and should be avaliable from Sprint or Verizon in the US. GSM carriers offer EDGE/GPRS (so called “2.5G”) or UTMS (3G), which offers 400-700kbps downloads (with faster bursts). Cingular is a GSM carrier offering UTMS….although I suppose it makes exactly no difference if it works and there is coverage in your area–but the cards aren’t compatible between EV-DO and UTMS networks (AFAIK).

  54. “actually you can get a preview of Windows Vista right now. “

    Huh? Who…what…where? When did the Vista CTPs become publicly available, without membership via MSDN? Where is this “available” preview you speak of and where can yours truly get his dirty paws on a copy?

  55. “actually you can get a preview of Windows Vista right now. “

    Huh? Who…what…where? When did the Vista CTPs become publicly available, without membership via MSDN? Where is this “available” preview you speak of and where can yours truly get his dirty paws on a copy?

  56. On the dangers of blogging

    (Or rather, on the dangers of listening to blogging)
    Now, everyone has the right to be heard (with obvious exceptions). But with everyone clamouring to be heard, it makes it rather hard to know who you should be listening to.
    Robert Scoble is a &#82…

  57. Its no use having the next ‘stuff’ in right now. Coz a year later the next macbook would come out and everyone would buy one.
    I remember when my dad bought our first TV. We had to be sure we got the next gen coz it was going to last for a few years.

    If you have a floppy disk and you don’t have a floppy drive, feeling cool and nex-gen doesn’t help.

  58. Its no use having the next ‘stuff’ in right now. Coz a year later the next macbook would come out and everyone would buy one.
    I remember when my dad bought our first TV. We had to be sure we got the next gen coz it was going to last for a few years.

    If you have a floppy disk and you don’t have a floppy drive, feeling cool and nex-gen doesn’t help.

  59. “You have a lot of readers of your blog. Do you think it’s slightly irresponsible to write misleading crap like this?”

    Has he ever done anything else? You must have been reading him longer than I have. I just check in to see if anyone at Microsoft seems to have a clue about actual technology as opposed to wizz-bang spinning do-dads. So far no evidence of it.

  60. “You have a lot of readers of your blog. Do you think it’s slightly irresponsible to write misleading crap like this?”

    Has he ever done anything else? You must have been reading him longer than I have. I just check in to see if anyone at Microsoft seems to have a clue about actual technology as opposed to wizz-bang spinning do-dads. So far no evidence of it.

  61. >Well wow, I wonder why Microsoft, Dell, HP, Acer, Gateway and Intel are all supporting it then?

    Christopher: there’s a difference between supporting it and forcing you to use it.

    I’m sure there’ll be some PCs that only have the new slot. We’ll see how commercially successful they are in the next two quarters. After that, I’m sure it will make more and more sense.

  62. >Well wow, I wonder why Microsoft, Dell, HP, Acer, Gateway and Intel are all supporting it then?

    Christopher: there’s a difference between supporting it and forcing you to use it.

    I’m sure there’ll be some PCs that only have the new slot. We’ll see how commercially successful they are in the next two quarters. After that, I’m sure it will make more and more sense.

  63. Scoble has taken the job of the canary in the mineshaft at MS. It’s his job to be a little skidish about new techs coming down the pike. Right now the smell of apple smoke is starting to choke him a bit and a cough or two is in order. Itel and AMD are starting the “core wars” while Jobs is setting the stage for a raid on MS customers.

  64. Scoble has taken the job of the canary in the mineshaft at MS. It’s his job to be a little skidish about new techs coming down the pike. Right now the smell of apple smoke is starting to choke him a bit and a cough or two is in order. Itel and AMD are starting the “core wars” while Jobs is setting the stage for a raid on MS customers.

  65. there’s a difference between supporting it and forcing you to use it.

    No there is not, no difference at all. By supporting the NEW they are killing the OLD, as the company that does a dual-hybrid ain’t thinking straight (actually no OEMs are going hybrid, that I know of).

    Support = “force”. But this is how tech evolves, people PICK a standard and rally around it, legacy dies, usually the big fight is over the stndard, that wasn’t the case here. You can hold onto the old if you want, messing with COM ports over USB, but the future will leave you behind.

    And ummm, all Intel Dual Cores will “force” you too. Or do you not want to be on that bleeding edge? It’s an INDUSTRY-THING, the next big leap, the next new new thing. The focus should be on getting services on the new standard, not in holding onto legacy, breathe down Verizon and Cingular’s necks. You are holding the wrong end of the stick. And blaming Apple for “forcing” is crazy, it’s far far more Intel than Apple, indeed it’s far more MICROSOFT than even Apple.

    About now, you can fess up that you really had no idea what you were talking about with that post. It’s ok, everyone makes mistakes.

  66. there’s a difference between supporting it and forcing you to use it.

    No there is not, no difference at all. By supporting the NEW they are killing the OLD, as the company that does a dual-hybrid ain’t thinking straight (actually no OEMs are going hybrid, that I know of).

    Support = “force”. But this is how tech evolves, people PICK a standard and rally around it, legacy dies, usually the big fight is over the stndard, that wasn’t the case here. You can hold onto the old if you want, messing with COM ports over USB, but the future will leave you behind.

    And ummm, all Intel Dual Cores will “force” you too. Or do you not want to be on that bleeding edge? It’s an INDUSTRY-THING, the next big leap, the next new new thing. The focus should be on getting services on the new standard, not in holding onto legacy, breathe down Verizon and Cingular’s necks. You are holding the wrong end of the stick. And blaming Apple for “forcing” is crazy, it’s far far more Intel than Apple, indeed it’s far more MICROSOFT than even Apple.

    About now, you can fess up that you really had no idea what you were talking about with that post. It’s ok, everyone makes mistakes.

  67. You know Bobby if you’re serious about a buying a Mac, you can buy a 15″ or 17″ G4 PB that do have a PC card slot that will work with EVDO cards. Right now, today. Of course the MacBook isn’t going to be out for another month or two and in that time not only will there likely be cards for the new slots (which will be the standard before next year) but also adapters for the new slot so you can use your old school cards.

    Do you really expect us to believe you’re going to buy a new Mac? I thought you were Mr Tablet Uber Alles?

  68. You know Bobby if you’re serious about a buying a Mac, you can buy a 15″ or 17″ G4 PB that do have a PC card slot that will work with EVDO cards. Right now, today. Of course the MacBook isn’t going to be out for another month or two and in that time not only will there likely be cards for the new slots (which will be the standard before next year) but also adapters for the new slot so you can use your old school cards.

    Do you really expect us to believe you’re going to buy a new Mac? I thought you were Mr Tablet Uber Alles?

  69. Bubba: I don’t think Apple is gonna do a Tablet. I’d like to have a Mac since my son has one. But, I’ll probably just get a small cheap one like what he got.

    Lee: booting it is one thing. Supporting it well is another. I bet the iSight won’t work. Neither will some of the mouse and other features. At least they won’t until drivers get written for them.

  70. Bubba: I don’t think Apple is gonna do a Tablet. I’d like to have a Mac since my son has one. But, I’ll probably just get a small cheap one like what he got.

    Lee: booting it is one thing. Supporting it well is another. I bet the iSight won’t work. Neither will some of the mouse and other features. At least they won’t until drivers get written for them.

  71. They won’t do a “pure” tablet. But I can see, when the tech gets cheap enough, them building a laptop with a screen that would be supported by Ink. It’s not like they don’t have any experience with that. (Robert, remember that whole “Idea without good implementation will fail” thing? Yeah. The Newton. Great example.)

    But Robert is not really an edge case. He doesn’t live on the bleeding edge, he’s not even particularly leading edge. Oh he’ll run Vista betas, and use the new toys, but that’s just being a tech fanboy. If he didn’t work for MS, he wouldn’t even be runnning Vista. That’s just him being an evangelist more than a trailblazer. Part of his job is to show people tablets and their features, and to do that for Vista he has to run Vista. Any implications to the contrary are well-executed PR, (and this whole Gawrsh-shucks image he tries to project is really one of the best PR things i’ve ever seen).

    He’s at the front of the pack, but he’s still well within the safety of numbers. He just has fewer dogs between him and a clear view.

    Toys != Trailblazer

  72. They won’t do a “pure” tablet. But I can see, when the tech gets cheap enough, them building a laptop with a screen that would be supported by Ink. It’s not like they don’t have any experience with that. (Robert, remember that whole “Idea without good implementation will fail” thing? Yeah. The Newton. Great example.)

    But Robert is not really an edge case. He doesn’t live on the bleeding edge, he’s not even particularly leading edge. Oh he’ll run Vista betas, and use the new toys, but that’s just being a tech fanboy. If he didn’t work for MS, he wouldn’t even be runnning Vista. That’s just him being an evangelist more than a trailblazer. Part of his job is to show people tablets and their features, and to do that for Vista he has to run Vista. Any implications to the contrary are well-executed PR, (and this whole Gawrsh-shucks image he tries to project is really one of the best PR things i’ve ever seen).

    He’s at the front of the pack, but he’s still well within the safety of numbers. He just has fewer dogs between him and a clear view.

    Toys != Trailblazer

  73. Oh yeah, and every time you enjoy the plethora of USB toys out there, you should face Cupertino and thank Steve Jobs. Because what was it that drove USB adoption and use through the roof? It certainly wasn’t MS or the PC companies. Windows 98? BWAAHAHAHAHAAHA…yeah, if you could find stuff besides the same tired demos. A mouse or two. a Keyboard. maybe a joystick.

    Hell, as late as 2002-2003, when I’d be setting up new Dells at MIT, you couldn’t do it without a PS/2 keyboard. You HAD to have one. So much for MS or the PC companies driving change.

    It was the iMac. 90 days after its release, the USB market suddenly had over a million new customers clamoring for toys. Now if the PC makers would just get around to properly shooting PS/2 and serial ports, the last of the 286 – era motherboard remnants could go away.

    Maybe in another 5 years. That’s about how long it takes the PC manufacturers to really change.

  74. Oh yeah, and every time you enjoy the plethora of USB toys out there, you should face Cupertino and thank Steve Jobs. Because what was it that drove USB adoption and use through the roof? It certainly wasn’t MS or the PC companies. Windows 98? BWAAHAHAHAHAAHA…yeah, if you could find stuff besides the same tired demos. A mouse or two. a Keyboard. maybe a joystick.

    Hell, as late as 2002-2003, when I’d be setting up new Dells at MIT, you couldn’t do it without a PS/2 keyboard. You HAD to have one. So much for MS or the PC companies driving change.

    It was the iMac. 90 days after its release, the USB market suddenly had over a million new customers clamoring for toys. Now if the PC makers would just get around to properly shooting PS/2 and serial ports, the last of the 286 – era motherboard remnants could go away.

    Maybe in another 5 years. That’s about how long it takes the PC manufacturers to really change.

  75. “there’s a difference between supporting it and forcing you to use it.”

    And there’s a difference between NECESSARY and “just getting it yesterday.” Probably a bigger one.

    “I don’t think Apple is gonna do a Tablet.”

    Ha, ha, ha! A year and a half and $100 that you never paid too late. Pay up.

  76. “there’s a difference between supporting it and forcing you to use it.”

    And there’s a difference between NECESSARY and “just getting it yesterday.” Probably a bigger one.

    “I don’t think Apple is gonna do a Tablet.”

    Ha, ha, ha! A year and a half and $100 that you never paid too late. Pay up.

  77. Try a Palm Treo 700w – it is EVDO and Windows Mobile and makes me wish we had EVDO here as we won’t get 3G chips that will fit in something small with reasonable battery life until 2H 06.

    Real-life figures from Palm on downloads.
    GPRS 20k/sec
    EDGE 60k/sec
    EVDO 400-700K/sec

    Apple can push the envelope like this because their market will accept it where the mass market won’t/can’t. Maybe it will get Express to everyone a little sooner. I saw 16 Express prototypes at IDF Fall last year, all promised for this year.

  78. Try a Palm Treo 700w – it is EVDO and Windows Mobile and makes me wish we had EVDO here as we won’t get 3G chips that will fit in something small with reasonable battery life until 2H 06.

    Real-life figures from Palm on downloads.
    GPRS 20k/sec
    EDGE 60k/sec
    EVDO 400-700K/sec

    Apple can push the envelope like this because their market will accept it where the mass market won’t/can’t. Maybe it will get Express to everyone a little sooner. I saw 16 Express prototypes at IDF Fall last year, all promised for this year.

  79. Aww, you beat me to it Alfredo! I just saw that too.

    Too bad we still haven’t found a way to dual boot on the intel macs…

    If you want uptodate info on that stuff go to http://www.osx86project.org/ .

    They have a couple people there messing around with it… apparently the newest Vista beta (from MSDN) can’t even be recognized (only through USB can it even be seen). Maybe you could talk to the guys over at Microsoft who are working on EFI… that’s the main problem – getting past it, or booting from it. The problem seems even bigger for us Windows XP users…

    Like I said, check out the site.

  80. Aww, you beat me to it Alfredo! I just saw that too.

    Too bad we still haven’t found a way to dual boot on the intel macs…

    If you want uptodate info on that stuff go to http://www.osx86project.org/ .

    They have a couple people there messing around with it… apparently the newest Vista beta (from MSDN) can’t even be recognized (only through USB can it even be seen). Maybe you could talk to the guys over at Microsoft who are working on EFI… that’s the main problem – getting past it, or booting from it. The problem seems even bigger for us Windows XP users…

    Like I said, check out the site.

  81. Dual booting? Bah. I want virtual machines. Dual booting lets me be half as productive in twice the operating environments. Virtual machines let me be MORE productive in n operating environments. Give me good VMs with near native – boot speed, and I’ll write the check for the licenses now.

  82. Dual booting? Bah. I want virtual machines. Dual booting lets me be half as productive in twice the operating environments. Virtual machines let me be MORE productive in n operating environments. Give me good VMs with near native – boot speed, and I’ll write the check for the licenses now.

  83. Okay, I may be swimming in over my (lack of) technical expertise here, but I have to agree with John on “dual boot”. Why go through the trouble of trying to get Windows to recognize Mac hardware, when you can just create an environment where the MacOS relays the I/O to and from Windows.

    I presume, to some degree, that this is what Virtual PC does.

    All things considered, if I ever have to run Windows on a Mac, I’d rather trust MS to provide a means to do so rather than some hack. MS in the loop about the latest hardware for macs (or at least as much as any other major Apple developer is), and is for obvious reasons in an excellent place to be sure that Windows will work within this environment.

    So, if you’re interested in the new MacBook Pro for running Windows, Robert, go see the crew at the Mac B.U. and ask when they’ll be ready to run VPC on Intel.

  84. Okay, I may be swimming in over my (lack of) technical expertise here, but I have to agree with John on “dual boot”. Why go through the trouble of trying to get Windows to recognize Mac hardware, when you can just create an environment where the MacOS relays the I/O to and from Windows.

    I presume, to some degree, that this is what Virtual PC does.

    All things considered, if I ever have to run Windows on a Mac, I’d rather trust MS to provide a means to do so rather than some hack. MS in the loop about the latest hardware for macs (or at least as much as any other major Apple developer is), and is for obvious reasons in an excellent place to be sure that Windows will work within this environment.

    So, if you’re interested in the new MacBook Pro for running Windows, Robert, go see the crew at the Mac B.U. and ask when they’ll be ready to run VPC on Intel.

  85. The other issues with dual boot are, if it’s sufficiently fragile, you can’t guarantee a reliable method from hardware to hardware. It has huge potential to hairball your drive, and again, as a Virtual Server user, it’s simply smarter, easier and SAFER to go the VM route.

  86. The other issues with dual boot are, if it’s sufficiently fragile, you can’t guarantee a reliable method from hardware to hardware. It has huge potential to hairball your drive, and again, as a Virtual Server user, it’s simply smarter, easier and SAFER to go the VM route.

  87. I suspect that that desire for dual boot is because of games. If there is viable virtual machine support, then only games and maybe some need for a particular driver will require actually booting into Windows.

  88. I suspect that that desire for dual boot is because of games. If there is viable virtual machine support, then only games and maybe some need for a particular driver will require actually booting into Windows.

  89. Yeah, Games and Video encoding (note – not editing) are the reasons for me wanting to dual boot. Plus a plethora of programs that I really like. I bought a MacBook Pro anyway… hope I can dual boot for those CPU intensive tasks Windows has good programs in…
    By the way, dual booting is alot less CPU intensive, hence preserving battery life. Need more reasons? I can think of a few more, but I have to get back to work…

  90. Yeah, Games and Video encoding (note – not editing) are the reasons for me wanting to dual boot. Plus a plethora of programs that I really like. I bought a MacBook Pro anyway… hope I can dual boot for those CPU intensive tasks Windows has good programs in…
    By the way, dual booting is alot less CPU intensive, hence preserving battery life. Need more reasons? I can think of a few more, but I have to get back to work…

  91. Considering we can’t yet run a VM on an intel mac, we don’t REALLY know what the performance will be yet.

    However, the chances of a VM fuxxoring my hard drive is MUCH less than a dual boot.

  92. Considering we can’t yet run a VM on an intel mac, we don’t REALLY know what the performance will be yet.

    However, the chances of a VM fuxxoring my hard drive is MUCH less than a dual boot.

  93. John, this guys claim they can run a VM on an Intel iMac, Windows 98 boot time of 15 seconds. Do you think it is bogus? It is based on Bosch (which I have unsuccessfully tried to install on PowerPC Macs). I was thinking of buying it when I got my MacBook Pro if nothing else was available… Would be interested in knowing if you have experience of opinions about it… Thankx!

  94. John, this guys claim they can run a VM on an Intel iMac, Windows 98 boot time of 15 seconds. Do you think it is bogus? It is based on Bosch (which I have unsuccessfully tried to install on PowerPC Macs). I was thinking of buying it when I got my MacBook Pro if nothing else was available… Would be interested in knowing if you have experience of opinions about it… Thankx!

  95. Well, i don’t have an Intel Mac yet, and when I see independent verification, I’ll take it more seriously. I’ve had some shady dealings with that site before.

  96. Well, i don’t have an Intel Mac yet, and when I see independent verification, I’ll take it more seriously. I’ve had some shady dealings with that site before.

  97. And only Robert would plunk down money based on something that hasn’t happened with any reliability yet or in a way that’s safe and predictable.

    but he’s not an edge case

  98. And only Robert would plunk down money based on something that hasn’t happened with any reliability yet or in a way that’s safe and predictable.

    but he’s not an edge case

  99. [...] 4. The Internet connection. I use a card in my laptop with a Verizon Internet service that costs about $60 per month for unlimited use. It works beautifully (Brad Feld and Robert Scoble have had similar experiences, Robert with Cingular). Manufacturers are already working on building the cards into the computers, so again no issues with easily getting a combination of Verizon and Wifi connection, depending on location (perhaps Wimax will come along as well, but the technology is here already and works great). [...]

  100. [...] Here’s the deal – $0 for the card and the standard $49.99/mo data plan + $35 activation! Holy throughput man! AND NO EXTENSION OF MY TMOBILE CONTRACT NEEDED!!! Can’t beat that with a stick! Since Mr. Scoble was railing on the lack of merits for WiFi in favor of EVDO… I just had to try it Explore posts in the same categories: technology, Apple, Robert Scoble, Apple/OS X, EVDO, TMOBILE [...]

  101. My company stumbled on the same thing. However – just an FYI for others out there we did this…..

    It seems that the PCMCIA disappearing is not the end of the world. We ended up talking with Sprint and not only figured out it was cheaper – but almost more convenient to have another phone. Sure, the purchase cost up front is more, but it is like 76 bucks a month versus 80 for the card. I keep the bluetooth phone in my backpack and it works great. Two good things, for one – I don’t have to worry about snagging my PCMCIA card putting it into and removing it from my backpack. The other plus the PCMCIA card doesn’t run and suck my battery die when I am on the train commuting!

    Maybe not the best answer – but it got us around the one big issue with getting a MacBook. I am typing this now from one – and it so far it has been well worth the money. Makes the Mac, well, usable again. :-)

    Scott
    San Francisco

  102. My company stumbled on the same thing. However – just an FYI for others out there we did this…..

    It seems that the PCMCIA disappearing is not the end of the world. We ended up talking with Sprint and not only figured out it was cheaper – but almost more convenient to have another phone. Sure, the purchase cost up front is more, but it is like 76 bucks a month versus 80 for the card. I keep the bluetooth phone in my backpack and it works great. Two good things, for one – I don’t have to worry about snagging my PCMCIA card putting it into and removing it from my backpack. The other plus the PCMCIA card doesn’t run and suck my battery die when I am on the train commuting!

    Maybe not the best answer – but it got us around the one big issue with getting a MacBook. I am typing this now from one – and it so far it has been well worth the money. Makes the Mac, well, usable again. :-)

    Scott
    San Francisco

  103. Apple is so innovative! I thought I was experiencing a melt down on my current pc, so I started talking to the folks at the Apple store. I can’t quite afford to just throw down and buy a mac “just because,” but as soon as it’s time I’m gonna be more than willing! http://capatrex.org

  104. Apple is so innovative! I thought I was experiencing a melt down on my current pc, so I started talking to the folks at the Apple store. I can’t quite afford to just throw down and buy a mac “just because,” but as soon as it’s time I’m gonna be more than willing! http://capatrex.org