Kim turns Microsoft toward open source?

Kim Cameron, what are you doing (he just announced that he got Microsoft’s InfoCards working on WordPress and PHP and is having a conversation with lots of people in the community)? You trying to ruin Microsoft’s reputation? By listening to folks like Marc Canter? “I came away incredibly excited and anxious to meet those folks at Mix06.”

What’s going on here?

Of course Microsoft isn’t quite hip yet. How do we know that? We don’t have a sticker. Or is that a stickr. Heheh. Check out Cory Doctorow’s laptop. All the cool kids have stickrs.

31 thoughts on “Kim turns Microsoft toward open source?

  1. well, sources is really a crucial factor, how to use the sources, or in simple words, how to make them into money has a higher level priority.

  2. well, sources is really a crucial factor, how to use the sources, or in simple words, how to make them into money has a higher level priority.

  3. ConcreteJesus, I don’t know what planet you are on. I really don’t. But Kim does have comments on his blog and he does engage the community… he lives in the community.

    The thing is, with Kim, if you don’t have anything to really contribute, he isn’t interested in your comments. I wouldn’t be interested either, reading your post above. I suggest you take your *dumb and ignorant* hat off and really open your eyes.

  4. ConcreteJesus, I don’t know what planet you are on. I really don’t. But Kim does have comments on his blog and he does engage the community… he lives in the community.

    The thing is, with Kim, if you don’t have anything to really contribute, he isn’t interested in your comments. I wouldn’t be interested either, reading your post above. I suggest you take your *dumb and ignorant* hat off and really open your eyes.

  5. Kim cameron doesn’t publish any comments to his blog.

    This guy is pushing the “The web has an identity crisis” and keeps the shouting down by avoiding any feedback whatsoever.

    So, here’s somethings to consider that Kim won’t publish:

    The Internet works pretty great without identity management. Look how many people are using it to create services, wealth and jobs.

    Identity theft which seems to always be the justification for ID management do not belong in the same sentence. The latter won’t fix the former. Just like the TV ads that claim broadband internet is “more secure” than dialup, it’s nonsense.

    My feeling is the “crisis” is manufactured to meet many goals:

    1. Privatize the web. Kim’s employer needs to know exactly who you are to limit your consumption for the service you paid. e.g. your computer as a pay-per-view-box.

    2. Securitize the web. Establish control over content production on the web. This is the back-end to the pay-per-view model. Of course someone wants to further monetize that and make people pay for what was once almost free.

    3. Better track individual activity. I don’t really care about this because I’m not doing anything illegal. But some people get nervous.

    4. Shift the economic liability of identity to the individual, away from the companies storing your personal information.

    Welcome info-card!

  6. Kim cameron doesn’t publish any comments to his blog.

    This guy is pushing the “The web has an identity crisis” and keeps the shouting down by avoiding any feedback whatsoever.

    So, here’s somethings to consider that Kim won’t publish:

    The Internet works pretty great without identity management. Look how many people are using it to create services, wealth and jobs.

    Identity theft which seems to always be the justification for ID management do not belong in the same sentence. The latter won’t fix the former. Just like the TV ads that claim broadband internet is “more secure” than dialup, it’s nonsense.

    My feeling is the “crisis” is manufactured to meet many goals:

    1. Privatize the web. Kim’s employer needs to know exactly who you are to limit your consumption for the service you paid. e.g. your computer as a pay-per-view-box.

    2. Securitize the web. Establish control over content production on the web. This is the back-end to the pay-per-view model. Of course someone wants to further monetize that and make people pay for what was once almost free.

    3. Better track individual activity. I don’t really care about this because I’m not doing anything illegal. But some people get nervous.

    4. Shift the economic liability of identity to the individual, away from the companies storing your personal information.

    Welcome info-card!

  7. I looked – but I couldn’t find any Microsoft stickers on Cory’s Powerbook.

    But at least Cory is seeing the evil side of Apple.

    Maybe after they try to put HIM out of business 5 or 6 times – he’ll stop using Macs and just accept capitalism as the world order. In that light – Microsoft’s measly $12B-$14B in profits is dwarfed by Exxon and Shell.

    They’re all evil – get over it.

  8. I looked – but I couldn’t find any Microsoft stickers on Cory’s Powerbook.

    But at least Cory is seeing the evil side of Apple.

    Maybe after they try to put HIM out of business 5 or 6 times – he’ll stop using Macs and just accept capitalism as the world order. In that light – Microsoft’s measly $12B-$14B in profits is dwarfed by Exxon and Shell.

    They’re all evil – get over it.

  9. As an English canals blogger, I had my laptop painted last year by a waterways artist in traditional English ‘roses & castles’ style. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/78944572@N00/75378051/in/set-1617338/

    I was first on Google with the phrase ‘pimp my laptop’.

    The irony was, Dell charged three times as much for the plastic cover as the artist charged for painting it. What a rip-off. It would be like the plasterer charging three times as much for finishing the wall as Da Vinci charged for The Last Supper!

  10. As an English canals blogger, I had my laptop painted last year by a waterways artist in traditional English ‘roses & castles’ style. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/78944572@N00/75378051/in/set-1617338/

    I was first on Google with the phrase ‘pimp my laptop’.

    The irony was, Dell charged three times as much for the plastic cover as the artist charged for painting it. What a rip-off. It would be like the plasterer charging three times as much for finishing the wall as Da Vinci charged for The Last Supper!

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  12. Here’s a radical idea, specifically about InfoCards but applicable to anywhere MS is involved in trying to set standards. Take a leaf out of Google’s book and LibJingle. Sponsor and fund a few open source programmers to produce open source libraries in all the major platforms that might implement InfoCards. Some people (Marc!) seem to think that it’s not Microsoft’s problem and *we* need to do the work. But actually Microsoft needs widespread implementation if InfoCards isn’t going to be something that’s used by Microsoft properties only. And what better way to get that widespread implementation than to seed the community with tools that they can use.

    There’s a tricky line here for MS to walk. Supporting other platforms may bite into your own platform sales. But lack of support of other platforms may limit the success of your global initiatives. Can you look past the first to see the benefits of the second?

  13. Here’s a radical idea, specifically about InfoCards but applicable to anywhere MS is involved in trying to set standards. Take a leaf out of Google’s book and LibJingle. Sponsor and fund a few open source programmers to produce open source libraries in all the major platforms that might implement InfoCards. Some people (Marc!) seem to think that it’s not Microsoft’s problem and *we* need to do the work. But actually Microsoft needs widespread implementation if InfoCards isn’t going to be something that’s used by Microsoft properties only. And what better way to get that widespread implementation than to seed the community with tools that they can use.

    There’s a tricky line here for MS to walk. Supporting other platforms may bite into your own platform sales. But lack of support of other platforms may limit the success of your global initiatives. Can you look past the first to see the benefits of the second?

  14. Chris Coulter and all the other microsoft haters

    I am not a Microsoft hater, far from it. Hater is too blindly stupid. They do great things, make great things, hire great people, but then then do stupid things, make stupid things, and hire incompetent dowright-evil people. Same as any company, just with alot more arrogance than normal, a role now being recast by Google. Pointing out the bad and the overhyped and the vaporware and the Software Assurance double-bill scams, doesn’t make me a hater, rather a realist.

    I can’t stand the Apple Cult, but love Apples and adore Final Cut Pro and Motion, and I think the extreme Linux weenies are just that, weenies. And some of the extreme fundy Open Source types are just neo-Hippie Commies, toking on too much ‘power to the people’ drugs. And the ‘Web rules all’ types I think are mostly New Agey freaks. So if I am a hater, the hate camps sure won’t welcome me.

    Software is not a religion. It’s merely a tool.

  15. Chris Coulter and all the other microsoft haters

    I am not a Microsoft hater, far from it. Hater is too blindly stupid. They do great things, make great things, hire great people, but then then do stupid things, make stupid things, and hire incompetent dowright-evil people. Same as any company, just with alot more arrogance than normal, a role now being recast by Google. Pointing out the bad and the overhyped and the vaporware and the Software Assurance double-bill scams, doesn’t make me a hater, rather a realist.

    I can’t stand the Apple Cult, but love Apples and adore Final Cut Pro and Motion, and I think the extreme Linux weenies are just that, weenies. And some of the extreme fundy Open Source types are just neo-Hippie Commies, toking on too much ‘power to the people’ drugs. And the ‘Web rules all’ types I think are mostly New Agey freaks. So if I am a hater, the hate camps sure won’t welcome me.

    Software is not a religion. It’s merely a tool.

  16. This one time at Mashup Band Camp, Robert Scoble gave away free tickets to all the brain-mashed attendees, otherwise Mix06 wouldn’t have any show-ups.

    Stickrs? I thought you hated the Flickr trend. And stickers? Forget Cory, no one has more than the Loony Tune herself, Esther Dyson. Stickers and swag, so you want a supposedly mature Fortune 500 company to start acting like a Web 2.0 start-up or a ‘form over function’, Apple Cult? Microsoft isn’t hip, nor can ever be, and shouldn’t even strive to be.

    Infrastructure is vital, but boring. But better substance over style. Style can work for the money-losing Xbox Division, that is until the PS3 and Rev eat it’s lunch. Any attempt to make Microsoft seem cool and hip, is but a future trainwreck. Just race on ahead with good stuff like Monad and such…

  17. This one time at Mashup Band Camp, Robert Scoble gave away free tickets to all the brain-mashed attendees, otherwise Mix06 wouldn’t have any show-ups.

    Stickrs? I thought you hated the Flickr trend. And stickers? Forget Cory, no one has more than the Loony Tune herself, Esther Dyson. Stickers and swag, so you want a supposedly mature Fortune 500 company to start acting like a Web 2.0 start-up or a ‘form over function’, Apple Cult? Microsoft isn’t hip, nor can ever be, and shouldn’t even strive to be.

    Infrastructure is vital, but boring. But better substance over style. Style can work for the money-losing Xbox Division, that is until the PS3 and Rev eat it’s lunch. Any attempt to make Microsoft seem cool and hip, is but a future trainwreck. Just race on ahead with good stuff like Monad and such…

  18. Well, we shall see. I don’t use wordpress (doing my bit to foster software diversity you see – if its popular, I’ll write an alternative and use that).

    I will be very interested to read the code and exposition which he claims is forthcoming. Please do point to it when its out we’ll see just how open it is.

  19. Well, we shall see. I don’t use wordpress (doing my bit to foster software diversity you see – if its popular, I’ll write an alternative and use that).

    I will be very interested to read the code and exposition which he claims is forthcoming. Please do point to it when its out we’ll see just how open it is.

  20. If MS was really turning towards open source Kim would be integrating open source identity standards into Microsoft products rather than trying to push Microsoft standards into open source products.

  21. If MS was really turning towards open source Kim would be integrating open source identity standards into Microsoft products rather than trying to push Microsoft standards into open source products.

  22. By the way – do get stickers. I tried to ask Microsoft Germany about some swag and they told me, I should order them from my Partner Manager. WTF?

  23. By the way – do get stickers. I tried to ask Microsoft Germany about some swag and they told me, I should order them from my Partner Manager. WTF?

  24. Beer by name and possibly drinking too much of it when blogging. If Microsoft does not support Opensource then you and others get on your high horse about them not listening or being mypoi about Windows. And now when they do they are eil and trying to take over everything. I wish you, Chris Coulter and all the other microsoft haters wuld make your mind up. But then that’s unlikely to happen.

  25. Beer by name and possibly drinking too much of it when blogging. If Microsoft does not support Opensource then you and others get on your high horse about them not listening or being mypoi about Windows. And now when they do they are eil and trying to take over everything. I wish you, Chris Coulter and all the other microsoft haters wuld make your mind up. But then that’s unlikely to happen.

  26. Additionally, I think that instead of spending millions of dollars “cleaning up” your image, that you should just go with what the company actually is. A big greedy corporation that wants to shut every competitor down and take all business related to it’s core product for itself whenever tolerated by john q. public.

    Go the darth vader “teh evil” route. Not only will it save microsoft corporation millions on wasted PR, but you guys won’t have to buy a new wardrobe, pretend to be pro FOSS, or conduct any other activities outside of your true agenda.

    Being somebody else is costly and reaps little rewards. The corporation is a person, both legally and perceptually. Let MS corp free and be who they are. Crush your rivals and let the world know that free open source is for hippy losers and tree huggers.(and is a communist cancer of course)

    You’ll find you’ll be alot more successful.

    My 2 cents_Ex(const &2byte_width_pstr_here)

  27. Additionally, I think that instead of spending millions of dollars “cleaning up” your image, that you should just go with what the company actually is. A big greedy corporation that wants to shut every competitor down and take all business related to it’s core product for itself whenever tolerated by john q. public.

    Go the darth vader “teh evil” route. Not only will it save microsoft corporation millions on wasted PR, but you guys won’t have to buy a new wardrobe, pretend to be pro FOSS, or conduct any other activities outside of your true agenda.

    Being somebody else is costly and reaps little rewards. The corporation is a person, both legally and perceptually. Let MS corp free and be who they are. Crush your rivals and let the world know that free open source is for hippy losers and tree huggers.(and is a communist cancer of course)

    You’ll find you’ll be alot more successful.

    My 2 cents_Ex(const &2byte_width_pstr_here)

  28. I think working with FOSS like php ( http://snaps.php.net ) is a good idea. I think MS should simply dump ASP.NET and make their system extensions with php instead, which is far easier to use, multiplatform and more extensible with different systems.

    http://www.hotscripts.com/

    Here is a good benchmark on the popularity of php against ASP.NET and MS web solutions
    ASP.NET (1,039) vs. PHP (12,483)

    12 times more programs are being written in PHP than Microsoft based solutions, for scalability, portability and ease of use.

    Microsoft and open source is like oil and water. They simply don’t mix. Making closed source products and opening them when they simply aren’t worth anything anymore or you simply feel like it, is a bad idea. If microsoft is to get into open source, they need to build it from the start, and make publicly available CVS servers to download daily snapshots of the source tarballs, or it will never be used or accepted. The EU has shown what it thinks of “token” Open source that microsoft has tried to throw at it.

    http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/49210/49210.html

    Gates doesn’t like Open Source because he doesn’t see as much of a profit in it. Because you have less control over licensing with OSS, even if you sell some of your sources as we do. If somebody likes a product and it’s open source and they fragment it for their own company, they will likely NEVER buy your microsoft upgrade ever again. If you’re not prepared to deal with that, you should probably stop pimping MS OSS. Even pay OSS like some of what we and alot of other companies do falls under that same fragmentation use, where patches and upgrades no longer fit in with the adaptation of the software for the company that originally bought it.

    We digress, Sun digresses, Redhat digresses, Microsoft can not. You can’t be half open source(it has nothing to do with free or pay). Either you are or you aren’t.

  29. I think working with FOSS like php ( http://snaps.php.net ) is a good idea. I think MS should simply dump ASP.NET and make their system extensions with php instead, which is far easier to use, multiplatform and more extensible with different systems.

    http://www.hotscripts.com/

    Here is a good benchmark on the popularity of php against ASP.NET and MS web solutions
    ASP.NET (1,039) vs. PHP (12,483)

    12 times more programs are being written in PHP than Microsoft based solutions, for scalability, portability and ease of use.

    Microsoft and open source is like oil and water. They simply don’t mix. Making closed source products and opening them when they simply aren’t worth anything anymore or you simply feel like it, is a bad idea. If microsoft is to get into open source, they need to build it from the start, and make publicly available CVS servers to download daily snapshots of the source tarballs, or it will never be used or accepted. The EU has shown what it thinks of “token” Open source that microsoft has tried to throw at it.

    http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/49210/49210.html

    Gates doesn’t like Open Source because he doesn’t see as much of a profit in it. Because you have less control over licensing with OSS, even if you sell some of your sources as we do. If somebody likes a product and it’s open source and they fragment it for their own company, they will likely NEVER buy your microsoft upgrade ever again. If you’re not prepared to deal with that, you should probably stop pimping MS OSS. Even pay OSS like some of what we and alot of other companies do falls under that same fragmentation use, where patches and upgrades no longer fit in with the adaptation of the software for the company that originally bought it.

    We digress, Sun digresses, Redhat digresses, Microsoft can not. You can’t be half open source(it has nothing to do with free or pay). Either you are or you aren’t.

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