Guy on community…
Guy Kawasaki talks about building a good community. I think he forgot the most important one: hang out with the community! Why have I been successful where other people at Microsoft haven’t? Cause I hang out at geek dinners and other events. Tonight we had a blogger dinner. Just being there is important. Bringing Maryam is even more important cause she builds a stronger community by not talking geek stuff so much.
Another important rule? Include the Z list. How do you do that? Link, and link often! (Something that Guy hasn’t done yet in a big way).
Another way? Don’t make the community come to you. Go to the community. Huh? Answer your email! (I’m behind, but I’m on vacation). And, use CoComment and head off to other people’s blogs and answer their posts there.
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February 15th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Robert,
I am not sure I completely agree. It depends on the makeup of your community. In the world I live in, users are spread out across continents and cities. Most of our users don’t read blogs (yet). They have families and little time for dinners and mixers. User events do provide an opportunity to do what you suggest, as do trade shows and other events.
One statement I do agree with .. go to your community.
February 15th, 2006 at 11:03 pm
Scoble
Spot on. In fact how can you build a community with out being a part of it. Perhaps guy meant this, but didn’t explicitly state it, when he said “A community needs a champion.” However, it’s worth having its own point.
As an asside. You might like the interview I did with Guy the other day on The Gadget Show.
February 15th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
[...] Robert Scoble links to Guy Kawasaki’s blog entry about building Community. Sure enough building Community is what coming back from decades ago. I recently read an article about the sociology, about understanding people and customers of different age groups. What I learned there was about different categories of people from different time periods. Ferdinand Tonnies coined the following terms: Gemeinschaft - from around late 1800s or early 1900s Gesellschaft - around 2nd quarter of 20th Century Socialogical changes been happening from pre-industrial era into information age and now into super-informational (so called) age. Mary Ann Allison from Allison Group called the current information age as Ge-CyberSchaft as people started processing more information and the knowledge is everywhere - it is the matter of how and where to find it and knowing what to find. Susan Crawford shares about the Gecyberschaft from Mary Ann’s perspective. [...]
February 15th, 2006 at 11:37 pm
[...] If you’re unsure what I mean, then use Guy’s The Art of Creating a Community as a primer, and tack on Robert Scoble’s addition. Technorati Tags: communities community kawasaki scoble [...]
February 16th, 2006 at 12:07 am
Robert
An interesting perspective - and probably true for someone in your role; a well funded travelling evangelist.
February 16th, 2006 at 12:09 am
Building a Community
Guy Kawasaki has a great post tonight on Building a Community.
I’m not going to post it here - but take a read.
We’re right in the middle of getting the Novell CoolBlogs kicked off - this is great timely reading.
[Edit: this also got picked…
February 16th, 2006 at 1:11 am
Some of us have been trying to make it to these “blogger” dinners - seems they only get talked about AFTER the dinner.
Guess you gotta be in the IN crowd to make ‘em.
Also, most of us don’t get our travel expensed ya know.
February 16th, 2006 at 1:23 am
Innocent Bystander:
regarding blogger dinners - sometimes these information will be shared at the local meetup groups. URL: http://blog.meetup.com/
See if you have one in your local area.
February 16th, 2006 at 1:55 am
I think when Scoble says to hang out, he isn’t specifically stating face-to-face. He might have focused a little on dinners, but he also suggested blogs and comments.
You can do a good job of hanging out with people on the phone, blogs, comments, forums, Skype, instant message, Xbox Live, podcasts, etc. etc.
With the Internet, there are many more ways to “hang out.”
February 16th, 2006 at 2:36 am
Richard: absolutely true! You can use technology to show up in a variety of places. An occassional face-to-face meeting is good too.
Innocent: I always talk about geek dinners before they happen. Including the one last night.
February 16th, 2006 at 4:19 am
Robert, you go to dinners on the West coast ninety percent of the time. You’re only hanging out with a VERY limited number of people. You have perhaps heard of the rest of the country?
February 16th, 2006 at 4:31 am
sorry, John made a small typo above, he meant
… of the world? :cool:
February 16th, 2006 at 6:26 am
[...] Robert Scoble has a great post about different ways you can build community, especially using a blog. Scoble also points to Guy Kawasaki’s article on building communities. They are both good reads. The concept of building a community permeates into so many different areas, not just technology. For example, I think this is something that pastors should be adopting. How awesome would it be to have a church user group (of normal users, not the church elite)? The user groups sole purpose would be to give feedback. Using Technorati Find Related Blog Posts on: Robert Scoble, Community, Building, Blogs, Blogging [...]
February 16th, 2006 at 7:16 am
John: in the past two and a half months we’ve had blogger/geek events in London, Paris, Newport, Cork, Dublin, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, Geneva, Seattle, and San Francisco.
In the next month we’ll do: New York, Austin, and Las Vegas again and San Francisco.
Thanks for noticing!
February 16th, 2006 at 8:08 am
SRM, thanks for the link. I never knew something like that actually existed.
February 16th, 2006 at 8:23 am
John: and I forgot Brussels, Vancouver, and Denver.
So, in 2.5 months that makes 13 cities, 8 countries. So much for your “West Coast bias theory.”
February 16th, 2006 at 9:57 am
Your lofty condescension sponge could soak the Pacific dry. What normal person has the travel budget and job perks you do, and many have families and other social obligations that don’t deal in globe trotting to become a Blog God. Plus most are closed shops, and the ones announced are logistically spur of moment, tagged to the same usual circles.
The fact that Microsoft is wasting shareholder money on such worthless overhyped vaporwareish Evangelism fluff and the fact that Blogging Conferences need the usual Post Office line-ups to attract crowds to preach the MLM Miracle of Blogging, and that a few companies play the junket games, doesn’t mean such can be easily replicated for anyone else. Power-law distributional curve played extreme.
But glad that the Microsoft Royal Highness Godship takes time to sup and dine with us mortal sinners. We are not worthy.
February 16th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
I agree with your “link theory”, if want others link you, link them first.
February 16th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Christopher: you do realize that Microsoft does NOT pay most of my travel expenses, right? Most of the time it’s other people who pay for me to travel to come and see them. But thanks for playing along!
Let’s see. The Les Blog conference paid my travel and hotel expenses to come to Europe (and I paid Maryam’s way). The LIFT conference paid my hotel and travel expenses to come to Geneva. I paid my own way to Northern Voice.
Microsoft’s shareholders are getting a pretty damn good deal, IMO. You did see that I shared a room in Las Vegas, right? (And that I stayed one night in the hostel with Paul Mooney).
It’s funny how you are such an expert on everything I do seeing as I’ve had more than 50 such events in the past five years (almost all open to the public and almost all advertised well in advance, just like this weekend’s shindig at Michael Arrington’s house) and yet you’ve never shown up. I wonder how you’re such an expert on my travels and what I do?
February 16th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Does that angry jealous Chris fellah have a blog? ;)
I am from the “Z list” and do not see Robert as an elitist at all, in fact I see the exact opposite. To me Robert is like a big kid who enjoys having fun and bringing us all along for the ride.
I am also glad to see that someone brought up the missing element in Guy’s “community building” rant, I am sure there are others who thought the same thing yes?
- Guy is a marketer and Robert is a social butterfly.
- Guy wants us to read his every word to promote himself, Robert wants to draw you in and find out what you have to think.
Who would you rather “hangout” with? Nuff said.
February 16th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Good rebutall Robert !!
I totally agree with you, MSFT is getting a good deal.
Your creditablity and integrity is always in good standing with me and thats why i take your feed even though IMHO you are cutting old info and chatter.. that does not make a difference..what makes the difference is that I can clearly see what you do professionaly, blog, and comment wherever.. your echo chamber is pretty much transparent.
So far you are doing good - no strike that out- very very good in my books — so keep it up !!
February 16th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Good deal? The flagging up Vista, the eternal marketing droids armies promoing a product not yet released, all the crash and burns, Team 99 and more. It’s more than just Scoble. It’s a culture of overhype. Least with Vista, upgrade time cycle on their side.
And come on, it’s not just about Microsoft paying travel expenses, it’s about giving you time off and justifying such. And I said the “Blog Conference” people usually pay expenses (if Micrsoft did that they’d be even in worse shape). Microsoft thinks it’s getting a Vista Developer Evangelist, what it is really paying for is the Robert Scoble World Blog Tour. The fact that you pay for your travel expenses occasionally and take vacation time off for some things, what you want a gold star?
Open to public? Your defintion of “public”, sure differs from mine, but I will let that slide. You think if you were at a normal job, like NEC, that you would even be allowed to dot the globe, go to junkets, book tours and things of that nature?
Jealous? No. I am just tired of him preaching that anyone else can do this, that he became “A List” this way, and you can TOO, if just follow his principles. It’s like a infomercial. And it’s a sham. Besides my goals, don’t deal with globe-trotting to sup with bloggers and talking blogging. That’s not living to me, that’s a near dictionary definition of mental insanity in my book.
So I run in differing circles, big rip. I never see you at MY conferences either, drop to SE, NAB or ASA’s ISC sometime. But you don’t know where I hang, and whom I converse with, as I don’t blog that.
February 16th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
Actually, you visit more of Europe than you do the rest of the US. Let’s see:
London, Paris, Newport, Cork, Dublin, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, Geneva, Seattle, and San Francisco.
In the next month we’ll do: New York, Austin, and Las Vegas again and San Francisco.
In the US/Canada: 3 west coast, two near west coast (Vegas twice), once Texas, one East coast.
John: and I forgot Brussels, Vancouver, and Denver.
So, in 2.5 months that makes 13 cities, 8 countries. So much for your “West Coast bias theory.”
In the US/Canada: 1 West coast, one near west coast. So, out of 9 events, 4 are on the west coast, 3 are near west coast, 1 in the middle southern part of the country, one on the east coast.
so, 44% on the West coast, 33% in the west, but only near west coast…for…78% in the western part of the country.
No, no west coast bias AT ALL.
Maybe you should do a little math before dismissing a statement?
Like I said Robert, you travel in your little “blogosphere” “Cone of self-congratulations”, and have, really, no clue whatsoever as to how the majority of the country outside of your little tech bubble live and use tech.
But i’m sure that in the event of contact with a non-blogger, an inflatable winer will drop from the ceiling, and cloud the air with technobabble until the bad person has gone away.
February 16th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
[...] Yesterday, while reading Guy Kawasaki’s tips on creating a community, I stumbled across Robert Scoble’s comment that the most important part of building a community is hanging out with it. [...]
February 16th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Scoble, I’m not sure you should be congratulated. You hang out with other bloggers more often than. And when you aren’t, seem to hang out with pro-MS customers for the most part. Hardly “evangilism” So, let’s use a religious example for such a religious word:
” And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.. “
February 17th, 2006 at 5:46 am
Dmad: really? I think you should look into who I hang out with. Most of the people I hang out with are Linux developers. Even this weekend there’s not many Microsoft lovers I’m hanging with. Byron and Steve are Mac lovers. Mia works for Six Apart and they are all based on Linux. Buzz? OK, he loves Microsoft. Or, look at who I invited to have dinner with Jim Allchin. They weren’t all Microsoft lovers. I will admit a heavy blog bias.
Christopher: my employers are happy with what I do for them. If they weren’t they’d fire me.
February 17th, 2006 at 7:50 am
Mixers have a purpose in that they help geeks loosen up. But if you’re really a geek who wants to be appreciated you’ll put it in a blog. This doesn’t count for Scoble as he is a massive douchebag.
February 17th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Christopher: my employers are happy with what I do for them. If they weren’t they’d fire me.
You are beyond firing, minus something very stupid, like a felony, releasing code or internal purchase system abuse. The PR fallout would be too great, Microsoft for whatever gig it wanted, hath made a Devils Deal. Even if they aren’t happy, they won’t be able to do anything about it. Actually a great position to be in, and one point for you, in that you own your Employer, they don’t own you. That is a rare thing in this world, usually obtained by great achievement, or in your case, ummm, A-List Blog games, which to some (I guess) is a “great achievement”.
February 17th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Yeah, life as an A-List blogger is so cushy. All you have to do is take flak from hundreds of people who criticize just about everything you do.
I’ll take my relative obscurity, thanks. At least the only potshots I take are from my family, wanting to know if I’m going to finally get of the f***ing computer.
February 17th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Geeks love other geeks. Oppossing coaches get together at conventions, too. So you get together with other bloggers that happen to use Linux and Macs, what’s your point? How many of those Linux developers have you gotten off Linux and on to the MS platform? Or are they simply other bloggers getting together to convince each oher they actually matter? Again, my point is, until those people start swearing off Linux and using MS software your efforts are a waste MS resources. Are you tracking any of that? Or simply keeping a travelogue and patting yourself on the back for how many other bloggers you meet and link to you?
February 22nd, 2006 at 9:24 am
[...] Julie Leung in her series about speaking at Northern Voice discusses another reason that bloggers should get together in a sense of community: I think Robert Scoble hits it well when he wrote that community comes from hanging out together. Sometimes people wonder why go to a blogging conference, but at a blogging conference you will make connections that don’t happen any other way. There’s something about being in the same time and space as someone else that pulls you together. Perhaps you sit or park next to each other, eat lunch, grab a cup of coffee and bump into each other, stumble into their talk. Sure, we can find rich connections online. But blogging conferences prove that there’s no replacement for face-to-face. [...]
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December 8th, 2006 at 10:19 am
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Where has the price been and where is it going? Have they wasted money or used resources effectively?
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