Comments

  1. I’ve seen other brand measurements, it’s amazing that MS could have such a strong presence. Would this also be the case in a remote ‘unwired’ village in africa or asia? If so, that’s very powerful.

    “How is a great brand built? One customer at a time.”

    Scoble for CMO!

  2. I’ve seen other brand measurements, it’s amazing that MS could have such a strong presence. Would this also be the case in a remote ‘unwired’ village in africa or asia? If so, that’s very powerful.

    “How is a great brand built? One customer at a time.”

    Scoble for CMO!

  3. Robert: that survey is specifcially about consumer electronics. Do we sell any consumer electronics? Yeah, Xbox. But most people don’t associate that brand with Microsoft.

    Which is why our brand is weak. Dell, a company that built its brand mostly with our operating system inside its boxes, is very high on that scale.

    Just goes to show that you’ll get a different result depending on how you ask the question.

  4. Robert: that survey is specifcially about consumer electronics. Do we sell any consumer electronics? Yeah, Xbox. But most people don’t associate that brand with Microsoft.

    Which is why our brand is weak. Dell, a company that built its brand mostly with our operating system inside its boxes, is very high on that scale.

    Just goes to show that you’ll get a different result depending on how you ask the question.

  5. Jeremiah: I don’t hang out in unwired villages, but I just interviewed a group of Chinese employees and they say that the love of Microsoft is MUCH higher over there. I’ve heard the same from Indian employees too. That the lifelong dream of many college students is to work at Microsoft.

  6. Jeremiah: I don’t hang out in unwired villages, but I just interviewed a group of Chinese employees and they say that the love of Microsoft is MUCH higher over there. I’ve heard the same from Indian employees too. That the lifelong dream of many college students is to work at Microsoft.

  7. Microsoft, most hated company in the world.

    Microsoft, less trusted company in the world. cf Claria….

    Scoble, biggest known Microslut.

  8. Microsoft, most hated company in the world.

    Microsoft, less trusted company in the world. cf Claria….

    Scoble, biggest known Microslut.

  9. Robert: Good point. You do have to wonder how many people questioned in the survey looked at Microsoft as a company rather than just it’s electronics devices.

  10. Robert: Good point. You do have to wonder how many people questioned in the survey looked at Microsoft as a company rather than just it’s electronics devices.

  11. As an ‘Indian’ guy, I would testify to Scoble’s point. We see Microsoft as epitome of IT/Software organization. I finished my grad with the same view ( meanwhile was also recognized by Microsoft as Asia-Pacific Student Ambassador) and now work in a startup on microsoft technologies and do corporate evangelism for Microsoft.

  12. As an ‘Indian’ guy, I would testify to Scoble’s point. We see Microsoft as epitome of IT/Software organization. I finished my grad with the same view ( meanwhile was also recognized by Microsoft as Asia-Pacific Student Ambassador) and now work in a startup on microsoft technologies and do corporate evangelism for Microsoft.

  13. Hi Robert,

    I say this as a fan, but the “who the heck cares about ROI” meme is getting a little shopworn. Not only is it sloppy, it’s also an unfair characterization of the original criticism. Shel Israel’s original post on this topic nowhere mentions ROI, except to disavow its use as a metric for blogging.

    I’m not really interested in reviving this debate, but you do keep bringing it up through these sideways attacks on some strawman anti-blogging bean counter.

    Others in the pro-blogging camp are guilty of the same thing. You approved of Tim Bray’s declaration that “there’s a word for companies that base all decisions on ruthless quantitative ROI metrics: Bankrupt.” To me, the statement seems entirely empty, both because I don’t know of any companies that actually fit this description and because the statement is fundamentally unproveable.

    The original criticism was a request for real data in support of the business value of blogging (as opposed to heaps of anecdotes), and the request is entirely fair.

    Good data can be hard to come by in the real world. If that’s the case, just say so and move on. In either case, your position would actually be more credible if you acknowledged the validity of the criticism, rather than subtly scorning it.

  14. Hi Robert,

    I say this as a fan, but the “who the heck cares about ROI” meme is getting a little shopworn. Not only is it sloppy, it’s also an unfair characterization of the original criticism. Shel Israel’s original post on this topic nowhere mentions ROI, except to disavow its use as a metric for blogging.

    I’m not really interested in reviving this debate, but you do keep bringing it up through these sideways attacks on some strawman anti-blogging bean counter.

    Others in the pro-blogging camp are guilty of the same thing. You approved of Tim Bray’s declaration that “there’s a word for companies that base all decisions on ruthless quantitative ROI metrics: Bankrupt.” To me, the statement seems entirely empty, both because I don’t know of any companies that actually fit this description and because the statement is fundamentally unproveable.

    The original criticism was a request for real data in support of the business value of blogging (as opposed to heaps of anecdotes), and the request is entirely fair.

    Good data can be hard to come by in the real world. If that’s the case, just say so and move on. In either case, your position would actually be more credible if you acknowledged the validity of the criticism, rather than subtly scorning it.

  15. Robert,

    It’s really interesting how different regions have different opinions of Microsoft and other companies. Or is it? It probably reflects the culture of the company. Or does it?
    :)

    I always find humor in that type of writing structure because it contradicts the previous sentence, making all of those words useless. Typically the message could have been worded more efficiently in otherways if the intent was to introduce an opposing opinion. Or could it have been?

    Of course, I’m always game for using that for humor value. Or am I?!?!?

    Just some light humor! ;) (Or :( it?)

  16. Robert,

    It’s really interesting how different regions have different opinions of Microsoft and other companies. Or is it? It probably reflects the culture of the company. Or does it?
    :)

    I always find humor in that type of writing structure because it contradicts the previous sentence, making all of those words useless. Typically the message could have been worded more efficiently in otherways if the intent was to introduce an opposing opinion. Or could it have been?

    Of course, I’m always game for using that for humor value. Or am I?!?!?

    Just some light humor! ;) (Or :( it?)

  17. Scoble, heheh. Hating Microsoft = trolling ?

    I don’t know where to begin with this. You know, I come to see your blog everyday in exactly the same way I read Dilbert everyday.

    Your crap is very entertaining.

  18. Scoble, heheh. Hating Microsoft = trolling ?

    I don’t know where to begin with this. You know, I come to see your blog everyday in exactly the same way I read Dilbert everyday.

    Your crap is very entertaining.

  19. Mike: so is yours! :-)

    ars: it’s not a strawman. I didn’t get into blogging so I could “show some ROI” for a major company. Maybe you did, that’s cool. So I make fun of those who ask. Totally the wrong question, but that demonstrates very well why most companies don’t do interesting things and don’t take risks that could keep the company around for a while longer.

  20. This so-called “Most Powerful Global Brand” list is suspicious, not because Microsoft is ranked number one, but because of the others on the list. Here is their top-ten list: 1) MSFT, 2) GE, 3) Co-ca Cola, 4) China Mobile, 5) Marlboro, 6) Wal-Mart, 7) Google, 8) IBM, 9) Citi 10) Toyota.

    Whereas I don’t doubt the strength of Microsoft’s brand name, but GE? China Mobile? Can anyone name one product or service, off the top of his head, that is associated with GE (other than the GE-owned NBC)? I’m sure China Mobile is big in China, but I doubt anyone here in the States would say, “Okay, I’m getting a cell, and I’m getting me one of those sweet China Mobile deals.” If that were the case, some folks over at Cingular, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T might have to consider committing hara-kiri (disembowelment with a sword), not that I’m recommending.

    How about Honda, Nokia, Sony, Yahoo? What are they, chopped liver?

  21. Mike: so is yours! :-)

    ars: it’s not a strawman. I didn’t get into blogging so I could “show some ROI” for a major company. Maybe you did, that’s cool. So I make fun of those who ask. Totally the wrong question, but that demonstrates very well why most companies don’t do interesting things and don’t take risks that could keep the company around for a while longer.

  22. This so-called “Most Powerful Global Brand” list is suspicious, not because Microsoft is ranked number one, but because of the others on the list. Here is their top-ten list: 1) MSFT, 2) GE, 3) Co-ca Cola, 4) China Mobile, 5) Marlboro, 6) Wal-Mart, 7) Google, 8) IBM, 9) Citi 10) Toyota.

    Whereas I don’t doubt the strength of Microsoft’s brand name, but GE? China Mobile? Can anyone name one product or service, off the top of his head, that is associated with GE (other than the GE-owned NBC)? I’m sure China Mobile is big in China, but I doubt anyone here in the States would say, “Okay, I’m getting a cell, and I’m getting me one of those sweet China Mobile deals.” If that were the case, some folks over at Cingular, Sprint, Verizon, AT&T might have to consider committing hara-kiri (disembowelment with a sword), not that I’m recommending.

    How about Honda, Nokia, Sony, Yahoo? What are they, chopped liver?

  23. Yet Another Brands Top 10

    Another month, another top of brands. Another brand consulting company, Millward Brown Optimor, decided to set-up another way of having brands ranked, so we got another top where Microsoft got the first place..

  24. Robert Gale:

    You said:
    “Good point. You do have to wonder how many people questioned in the survey looked at Microsoft as a company rather than just it’s electronics devices.”

    Brand and products are all tied together, in fact often a brand can make a crappy product look like gold.

  25. Robert Gale:

    You said:
    “Good point. You do have to wonder how many people questioned in the survey looked at Microsoft as a company rather than just it’s electronics devices.”

    Brand and products are all tied together, in fact often a brand can make a crappy product look like gold.

  26. Robert, your reply is completely off-topic, which is exactly my point. The issue isn’t why you personally decided to get into blogging. No one gets into blogging to “show some ROI” for a major corporation. You’re attacking a strawman position.

    I’m not speaking as an idle spectator to this debate. In addition to my own personal blog, I’ve been the primary contributor to two separate official corporate blogs and an informal advisor to a Fortune 100 company that is planning to launch its own blog (for reasons having absolutely nothing to do with ROI). None of this makes me the least bit special, but I do have some inkling as to what makes blogs tick.

    And as someone who sees a lot of value in blogging, it strikes me as entirely reasonable to ask hard questions about the tangible benefits of blogging, preferably backed up with some data. This has nothing to do with some caricature of an accountant demanding to see a blog’s financial statements.

  27. Robert, your reply is completely off-topic, which is exactly my point. The issue isn’t why you personally decided to get into blogging. No one gets into blogging to “show some ROI” for a major corporation. You’re attacking a strawman position.

    I’m not speaking as an idle spectator to this debate. In addition to my own personal blog, I’ve been the primary contributor to two separate official corporate blogs and an informal advisor to a Fortune 100 company that is planning to launch its own blog (for reasons having absolutely nothing to do with ROI). None of this makes me the least bit special, but I do have some inkling as to what makes blogs tick.

    And as someone who sees a lot of value in blogging, it strikes me as entirely reasonable to ask hard questions about the tangible benefits of blogging, preferably backed up with some data. This has nothing to do with some caricature of an accountant demanding to see a blog’s financial statements.

  28. ars: it +is+ reasonable to ask hard questions. You’re assuming I didn’t give any answers.

    And, how do you know who I was talking about here? I’ve been asked about blogging’s ROI by many people, not just the guy last week. He wasn’t an accountant, by the way. Maybe you should look up what CTO means.

  29. ars: it +is+ reasonable to ask hard questions. You’re assuming I didn’t give any answers.

    And, how do you know who I was talking about here? I’ve been asked about blogging’s ROI by many people, not just the guy last week. He wasn’t an accountant, by the way. Maybe you should look up what CTO means.

  30. Couple of comments:
    First, the Millward Brown Optimor rating is based on the responses of people who buy the category or categories in question. So in the case of software it would be both business and consumer decision makers. Since I know the folks who created the ranking I am biased, but the ranking does reflect the degree to which people value brands in the category and are disposed toward the brand, as well as the financials of the company and the markets in which it operates.
    Second, with regard to Mr.Sun’s comment, you should get to grips with the fact that China Mobile has nearly as many subscribers in China there are people living in the US. With a good brand and good financials it deserves a position in the top 10, Check out http://www.mb-blog.com for more details and accept the fact that the world is changing.

  31. Couple of comments:
    First, the Millward Brown Optimor rating is based on the responses of people who buy the category or categories in question. So in the case of software it would be both business and consumer decision makers. Since I know the folks who created the ranking I am biased, but the ranking does reflect the degree to which people value brands in the category and are disposed toward the brand, as well as the financials of the company and the markets in which it operates.
    Second, with regard to Mr.Sun’s comment, you should get to grips with the fact that China Mobile has nearly as many subscribers in China there are people living in the US. With a good brand and good financials it deserves a position in the top 10, Check out http://www.mb-blog.com for more details and accept the fact that the world is changing.

  32. # 19 Nigel Hollis of Millward Brown,

    You mean to tell me China Mobile is a more powerful global band than Apple, HP, Intel, Sony, Pfizer, Boeing, Dell, Disney, Motorola, Pepsi, American Express, Merck, Volkswagen, DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Hitachi, Toshiba, Renault (and on and on)?

    The thousands of fine people who work in the marketing departments of the above-mentioned companies deserve a more articulate explanation of the methodology and algorithm you use to arrive at that conclusion.

  33. # 19 Nigel Hollis of Millward Brown,

    You mean to tell me China Mobile is a more powerful global band than Apple, HP, Intel, Sony, Pfizer, Boeing, Dell, Disney, Motorola, Pepsi, American Express, Merck, Volkswagen, DaimlerChrysler, Honda, Hitachi, Toshiba, Renault (and on and on)?

    The thousands of fine people who work in the marketing departments of the above-mentioned companies deserve a more articulate explanation of the methodology and algorithm you use to arrive at that conclusion.

  34. you’re an anonymous troll who probably works for one of our competitors.

    Trolling your own board, eh?

    I’d rather take the word of the Financial Times. They say that Microsoft is one of the world’s most respected companies.

    Well, forrester research says that consumers named Microsoft the most mistrusted brand name of any competitor. I’d say that lack of trust is well-earned – unlike Microsoft’s monopoly.

    Sure, today you’ll trust the financial times. But if forrester does a TCO study in favor of Microsoft, you’ll take their word on it. Won’t you?

  35. you’re an anonymous troll who probably works for one of our competitors.

    Trolling your own board, eh?

    I’d rather take the word of the Financial Times. They say that Microsoft is one of the world’s most respected companies.

    Well, forrester research says that consumers named Microsoft the most mistrusted brand name of any competitor. I’d say that lack of trust is well-earned – unlike Microsoft’s monopoly.

    Sure, today you’ll trust the financial times. But if forrester does a TCO study in favor of Microsoft, you’ll take their word on it. Won’t you?

  36. Anon: that depends on how they worded the question. I just bought an Xbox and I had to look very hard to find the word “Microsoft” anywhere on it.

  37. Anon: that depends on how they worded the question. I just bought an Xbox and I had to look very hard to find the word “Microsoft” anywhere on it.

  38. Least trusted company.

    Unable to help users with malware.

    Can’t ship on time to save their life.

    Incompetent management with corresponding mutiny by the troops (thanks miniMS)

    Convicted of anti-competitive illegal behavior (and let off the hook by the neoconvictgs).

    Miserable crappy user experience and tools that don’t interoperate.

    Stone aged programming languages.

    Yep, blogs have sure made a difference in how I perceive MS. They’re more messed up than I previously thought. Now I’m quite certain they don’t have enough dollars in the bank to get me to work there.

  39. Least trusted company.

    Unable to help users with malware.

    Can’t ship on time to save their life.

    Incompetent management with corresponding mutiny by the troops (thanks miniMS)

    Convicted of anti-competitive illegal behavior (and let off the hook by the neoconvictgs).

    Miserable crappy user experience and tools that don’t interoperate.

    Stone aged programming languages.

    Yep, blogs have sure made a difference in how I perceive MS. They’re more messed up than I previously thought. Now I’m quite certain they don’t have enough dollars in the bank to get me to work there.

  40. I just bought an Xbox and I had to look very hard to find the word “Microsoft” anywhere on it.

    I noticed that a long time ago. Even the original xbox marketing and packaging put the Microsoft logo in an inconspicuous location (if at all). I think that’s because Microsoft is distancing its brand from the items it sells to consumers – a form of trickery, I believe – given that, in my experience, while people are resigned to using Microsoft’s products when they are handed to them, they are loathe to front their own money for them. Contrast that with Apple, the majority of whose sales are basically made and paid for by the end-user.

    But I’m open to hearing your reasoning behind the removal of most evidence of Microsoft’s logo and branding from xbox.

  41. I just bought an Xbox and I had to look very hard to find the word “Microsoft” anywhere on it.

    I noticed that a long time ago. Even the original xbox marketing and packaging put the Microsoft logo in an inconspicuous location (if at all). I think that’s because Microsoft is distancing its brand from the items it sells to consumers – a form of trickery, I believe – given that, in my experience, while people are resigned to using Microsoft’s products when they are handed to them, they are loathe to front their own money for them. Contrast that with Apple, the majority of whose sales are basically made and paid for by the end-user.

    But I’m open to hearing your reasoning behind the removal of most evidence of Microsoft’s logo and branding from xbox.

  42. But I’m open to hearing your reasoning behind the removal of most evidence of Microsoft’s logo and branding from xbox.

    To me it’s common sensical obvious. As in the most important video game market, Japan — a box with a Microsoft logo is a sure-fire death sentence. But all in the games, and a golden opportunity now that Sony hath stumbled and all geared repeat the same supply chain mistakes of Microsoft, so a Japan relaunch needed (and will happen), I predict. Better story this time around. But consumer electronics are not on the PC market, ’3 times to get it right’ mode. Eventually Microsoft will learn this, after billions more lost.

    Plus at the word “Microsoft”, most people immediately go blue screen mode, virus/malware/spyware problems, less functional and general all around ineptness. No one likes them, but everyone uses them, irony of it all. Striping the “Microsoft” branding from Xbox was about the only marketing thing they did right.

  43. But I’m open to hearing your reasoning behind the removal of most evidence of Microsoft’s logo and branding from xbox.

    To me it’s common sensical obvious. As in the most important video game market, Japan — a box with a Microsoft logo is a sure-fire death sentence. But all in the games, and a golden opportunity now that Sony hath stumbled and all geared repeat the same supply chain mistakes of Microsoft, so a Japan relaunch needed (and will happen), I predict. Better story this time around. But consumer electronics are not on the PC market, ’3 times to get it right’ mode. Eventually Microsoft will learn this, after billions more lost.

    Plus at the word “Microsoft”, most people immediately go blue screen mode, virus/malware/spyware problems, less functional and general all around ineptness. No one likes them, but everyone uses them, irony of it all. Striping the “Microsoft” branding from Xbox was about the only marketing thing they did right.

  44. Absolutely! The context of the question makes all the difference … *and* having the surveyee understand the difference … ;)

    I think Microsoft rocks! Many of those who complain about it either know next to nothing about programming (I don’t consider writing scripts to compile and install linux programming.), but its just what people do.

    Then there are those who do know and used to use some MS product, had a bad taste and stopped using it for the past 5~10yrs, and yet continue to bitch about *new* products with the same arguments or flaws/bugs from *old* ones. I’ve personally met division managers claim that Windows is unstable and unwieldly. That writing programs for Windows is difficult etc etc. Then I asked him what system and language he was using. He said “Win3.11 and MSVC2.0″. I almost flipped out and wanted to rearrange his face. That happened sometime in 2001 when Windows 2000 Professional, Server, Adv Servers and even WindowsXP was already launched. VisualStudio.NET was I think either in beta (available thru Universal Subscription) or out. But this fella refused to use any new products for like 10 years and just kept repeating his bad experiences. *bum*

    There are a few good linux folks who had tried things on both sides and mostly they will give a slightly more unbiased views on Windows. They will list its strengths and weaknesses and then their own preferences, instead of going into a MS-bashing routine so typical of linux fans.

    ——
    I’ve been coding since mid80s on DOS, APPLE, UNIX, cygwin, Windows9x, WinNT, Win2k, WinXP, PalmOS, PPC, HPC, using either GW-BASIC, BASICA, BASICCOM, QBASIC, QuickBASIC, C/C++, VC++, C#, VB, VB.NET, scripts.

  45. Absolutely! The context of the question makes all the difference … *and* having the surveyee understand the difference … ;)

    I think Microsoft rocks! Many of those who complain about it either know next to nothing about programming (I don’t consider writing scripts to compile and install linux programming.), but its just what people do.

    Then there are those who do know and used to use some MS product, had a bad taste and stopped using it for the past 5~10yrs, and yet continue to bitch about *new* products with the same arguments or flaws/bugs from *old* ones. I’ve personally met division managers claim that Windows is unstable and unwieldly. That writing programs for Windows is difficult etc etc. Then I asked him what system and language he was using. He said “Win3.11 and MSVC2.0″. I almost flipped out and wanted to rearrange his face. That happened sometime in 2001 when Windows 2000 Professional, Server, Adv Servers and even WindowsXP was already launched. VisualStudio.NET was I think either in beta (available thru Universal Subscription) or out. But this fella refused to use any new products for like 10 years and just kept repeating his bad experiences. *bum*

    There are a few good linux folks who had tried things on both sides and mostly they will give a slightly more unbiased views on Windows. They will list its strengths and weaknesses and then their own preferences, instead of going into a MS-bashing routine so typical of linux fans.

    ——
    I’ve been coding since mid80s on DOS, APPLE, UNIX, cygwin, Windows9x, WinNT, Win2k, WinXP, PalmOS, PPC, HPC, using either GW-BASIC, BASICA, BASICCOM, QBASIC, QuickBASIC, C/C++, VC++, C#, VB, VB.NET, scripts.

  46. I am Billy And iwant to be one of your company … since i am 16.Y/o i am really wants to know about computer programming specialy electronics because it is my line … sine i am child i wnt to know all things that was all made by technologies nd want to be one of you ….you will use me in any in your company….if you want just call me at +639108222934…if you are wondering my number. because i am in philippines here is my address………..Block 8 Lot 15 Villa Paraiso Tagum City 8100 Philippines

  47. I am Billy And iwant to be one of your company … since i am 16.Y/o i am really wants to know about computer programming specialy electronics because it is my line … sine i am child i wnt to know all things that was all made by technologies nd want to be one of you ….you will use me in any in your company….if you want just call me at +639108222934…if you are wondering my number. because i am in philippines here is my address………..Block 8 Lot 15 Villa Paraiso Tagum City 8100 Philippines

  48. thats easy;
    Microsoft simply declares everything “they” do a new “Standard” :)
    “…and I’m a LumberJack and I don’t care…”

  49. thats easy;
    Microsoft simply declares everything “they” do a new “Standard” :)
    “…and I’m a LumberJack and I don’t care…”