Windows Media 11′s lack of podcasting gets noticed

May 22, 2006 By

Todd Cochrane, of Geek News Central, says that Windows Media 11's lack of podcasting features will slow down podcasting's growth. I look at it a different way. I think that not having podcasting features will slow down Windows Media 11's growth. Translation, I agree with him that it sucks that WM11 doesn't have podcasting features yet.

Funny enough, I'm sitting in Podtech.net's headquarters, located on Sand Hill Road. I've spent the past few hours getting acquainted with their team and learning about their plans (they were funded for more than $5 million a few months back). The podcasting space is white hot and only going to get hotter and video blogging is coming onto the scene like a train of coal rolling into Livingston Montana. Anyone miss how big a deal Rocketboom has become in just a year?

Lesson for product planners in the tech industry: if you aren't supporting the latest stuff you'll be derided and left behind. If it takes 30 months to add a cool feature into your product you're too slow, not agile enough, and will see slow growth.

Hey, my fellow Microsofties. Want to see the stock go up? Cut the time from 30 months or longer to 12. The market will start to notice and you'll see increased buzz. That still won't be perfect, but it'll be a lot better than we got now.

There are still way too many Microsoft sites without RSS feeds (a shame, really, since Windows Vista's beta 2 is coming within hours, and it has a decent RSS aggregator built in). Fellow Microsofties, let's change that and we'll see good things come to us.

Instead we have folks like Todd saying we suck. I hate being told that.

Here's another challenge for our product planners. Are you planning OPML features yet? Second Life? Video blogging? Xbox Live integration? WPF-based overhauls? Microformats?

Filed Under: 1

http://copiedoriginality.blogspot.com Kevin Behringer

Scoble:

Exactly!

When I opened the WMP 11, one of the first things I did was search the help for how to set up for podcasts. Nothing.

That shocked me. It seems if Microsoft is creating something to compete with iTunes, they would at least create something that could do everything that iTunes does…then add to it.

I have to say, it’s a bit like the new IE. It’s like Microsoft is trying to copy Firefox instead of beating it.

Why not jump over what people are used to and offer them something they never thought of?
http://www.ifilter.org/ Stonehouse

I was foolish enough to just ASSUME podcasts would be in there. I swear I spent 10 minute looking for something that wasn’t there. Sad.
http://www.ifilter.org Stonehouse

I was foolish enough to just ASSUME podcasts would be in there. I swear I spent 10 minute looking for something that wasn’t there. Sad.
Goebbels

“iRiver clix is a nice unit tho”

Chris, too bad ReignCom is getting out of the business though… for Microsoft that is. They get a couple of betas out the door and throw the Clix in all the marketing… and by the time, the products go live the Clix and iRiver are no longer viable products/entities. That’s brilliant planning: somehow Scoble’s words can get Microsoft to speed development but they can’t get someone in the marketing department to check on the financial health of a major advertising partner.
Goebbels

“iRiver clix is a nice unit tho”

Chris, too bad ReignCom is getting out of the business though… for Microsoft that is. They get a couple of betas out the door and throw the Clix in all the marketing… and by the time, the products go live the Clix and iRiver are no longer viable products/entities. That’s brilliant planning: somehow Scoble’s words can get Microsoft to speed development but they can’t get someone in the marketing department to check on the financial health of a major advertising partner.
http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

Goebbels: maybe no one should really listen to me. Apple, though, had podcasting support a year ago.

Apple’s stock has gone up since then. What has Microsoft’s done?
http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

Goebbels: maybe no one should really listen to me. Apple, though, had podcasting support a year ago.

Apple’s stock has gone up since then. What has Microsoft’s done?
Goebbels

“Apple, though, had podcasting support a year ago.”

So what? Do you think they needed you to figure that out? And more importantly: I was commenting on the comment: “Cut the time from 30 months or longer to 12.” My point being: how does saying that make it possible. Are you actually saying something or jsut making something up. Why not just say: “In the next week, invent something that everyone needs.” Such a statement is just as helpful and just as realistic.

Do you think you need to tell me what MSFT, which you have adamently claimed you are happy with for 3 years, is doing? Ha, ha, ha… Like I said, maybe you could tell someone in your marketing department that ReignCom is pulling out of the mp3 player market, if not withering up entirely…. Rather than telling me how your company is doing poorly… something we are all aware of.
Goebbels

“Apple, though, had podcasting support a year ago.”

So what? Do you think they needed you to figure that out? And more importantly: I was commenting on the comment: “Cut the time from 30 months or longer to 12.” My point being: how does saying that make it possible. Are you actually saying something or jsut making something up. Why not just say: “In the next week, invent something that everyone needs.” Such a statement is just as helpful and just as realistic.

Do you think you need to tell me what MSFT, which you have adamently claimed you are happy with for 3 years, is doing? Ha, ha, ha… Like I said, maybe you could tell someone in your marketing department that ReignCom is pulling out of the mp3 player market, if not withering up entirely…. Rather than telling me how your company is doing poorly… something we are all aware of.
Christopher Coulter

“…and by the time, the products go live the Clix and iRiver are no longer viable products/entities.”

Greaaaatt point. I know, ain’t that just too rich? Classic Microsoft.
Christopher Coulter

“…and by the time, the products go live the Clix and iRiver are no longer viable products/entities.”

Greaaaatt point. I know, ain’t that just too rich? Classic Microsoft.
Molly C

>I have to say, it’s a bit like the new IE. It’s like
> Microsoft is trying to copy Firefox instead of
> beating it.

LOL
Microsoft let IE stagnate so much that they just have to get the new version out the door, then worry about “beating” Firefox. As it is, Firefox blows IE7 away in extensions support, but besides that IE7 is as good as or better than Firefox (except for Microsoft’s idiotic resistance to providing an integrated download manager!!). I’d say that IE7 has better tab support, better RSS/Favorites/History functionality, and combining the Back/Forward navigation stack into one dropdown button is pretty cool.

The Firefox team is running out of ideas anyway. Their big “feature” for Firefox 2.0 was to be using a SQL database file to store bookmarks. Hello?? Who cares! And that feature got cut/delayed. Firefox needs to fix their memory management problems, and their security problems. Seems like every new release of Firefox fixes more than 10 holes. I don’t see how it’s any more secure than IE, except that IE is targetted more.

> Why not jump over what people are used to and offer
> them something they never thought of?

Well, IE was the first browser to be available as a component to be used by other apps, and Microsoft invented Ajax.
Molly C

>I have to say, it’s a bit like the new IE. It’s like
> Microsoft is trying to copy Firefox instead of
> beating it.

LOL
Microsoft let IE stagnate so much that they just have to get the new version out the door, then worry about “beating” Firefox. As it is, Firefox blows IE7 away in extensions support, but besides that IE7 is as good as or better than Firefox (except for Microsoft’s idiotic resistance to providing an integrated download manager!!). I’d say that IE7 has better tab support, better RSS/Favorites/History functionality, and combining the Back/Forward navigation stack into one dropdown button is pretty cool.

The Firefox team is running out of ideas anyway. Their big “feature” for Firefox 2.0 was to be using a SQL database file to store bookmarks. Hello?? Who cares! And that feature got cut/delayed. Firefox needs to fix their memory management problems, and their security problems. Seems like every new release of Firefox fixes more than 10 holes. I don’t see how it’s any more secure than IE, except that IE is targetted more.

> Why not jump over what people are used to and offer
> them something they never thought of?

Well, IE was the first browser to be available as a component to be used by other apps, and Microsoft invented Ajax.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Better tab support? With that inane moving “new tab control”? Oh yeah, that’s fantastic..”where do i click for a new tab? Well, it depends”

IE being an OS – Level component is a major reason for it being such a great way to pooch the OS. That’s probably not a fantastic thing to brag about Molly. Microsoft did indeed invent Ajax, and then did nothing with it, because all they care about (still), with one exception, is trying to force you to use Windows, and punishing you when you don’t. I bet Ballmer prays for that to happen every night.

Microsoft had USB support years before the iMac, but the USB market was nothing until the iMac. Inventing something, then not doing anything with it is useless.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Better tab support? With that inane moving “new tab control”? Oh yeah, that’s fantastic..”where do i click for a new tab? Well, it depends”

IE being an OS – Level component is a major reason for it being such a great way to pooch the OS. That’s probably not a fantastic thing to brag about Molly. Microsoft did indeed invent Ajax, and then did nothing with it, because all they care about (still), with one exception, is trying to force you to use Windows, and punishing you when you don’t. I bet Ballmer prays for that to happen every night.

Microsoft had USB support years before the iMac, but the USB market was nothing until the iMac. Inventing something, then not doing anything with it is useless.
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Goebbels

Blah, blah, blah….

“Hey presto.”

Ha, ha, ha!!!!!
Goebbels

Blah, blah, blah….

“Hey presto.”

Ha, ha, ha!!!!!
RL

Robert, you are right to point out the lack of podcasting support, although I never missed it. I wish I could say that it was a feature I wanted, but unfortunately I still have some dinosaur habits and could not imagine spending the time to listen to all the possible podcasts I might subscribe to. Though its this dinosaur thinking that must be overcome at MS to make the company succeed. I will say this about WM11. It’s a little bit more than just a nice gloss, its ability to create playlists are leaps and bounds above the old WM10. It’s even more user friendly and I love the navigation menus. I have Real (ADVERTISING) Player, and I-Tunes and I can say I still prefer WMP. WM11 is still an improvement over WM10 and I think, Robert, you have thrown a dual gauntlet at the development team. One is add RSS support to WMP11 and do it quick enough for the final release. Let’s see if the team picks up the gauntlet and wins your challenge.
RL

Robert, you are right to point out the lack of podcasting support, although I never missed it. I wish I could say that it was a feature I wanted, but unfortunately I still have some dinosaur habits and could not imagine spending the time to listen to all the possible podcasts I might subscribe to. Though its this dinosaur thinking that must be overcome at MS to make the company succeed. I will say this about WM11. It’s a little bit more than just a nice gloss, its ability to create playlists are leaps and bounds above the old WM10. It’s even more user friendly and I love the navigation menus. I have Real (ADVERTISING) Player, and I-Tunes and I can say I still prefer WMP. WM11 is still an improvement over WM10 and I think, Robert, you have thrown a dual gauntlet at the development team. One is add RSS support to WMP11 and do it quick enough for the final release. Let’s see if the team picks up the gauntlet and wins your challenge.
Goebbels

Of course, it’s not a tech issue, and of course, it won’t be added. Two reasons… pointed to by James and Molly.

#1 – podcasts are predominantly mp3 or aac and Microsoft will not support that.

#2 – Sorry, Molly, but the name issue was decided long ago… People accept PodCast and will not accept any of these silly alternates as an alternate name… Microsoft will never accept the name PodCast so they will not support it.
Goebbels

Of course, it’s not a tech issue, and of course, it won’t be added. Two reasons… pointed to by James and Molly.

#1 – podcasts are predominantly mp3 or aac and Microsoft will not support that.

#2 – Sorry, Molly, but the name issue was decided long ago… People accept PodCast and will not accept any of these silly alternates as an alternate name… Microsoft will never accept the name PodCast so they will not support it.
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http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Yep…if Microsoft comes up with a name, it will be:

Windows Media Player, with Automatic Downloads of Audio and Video file that you can transfer to a plays for sure device and listen to at your leisure!

Apple has:

iTunes, now with Podcasting.

and they wonder why Apple’s doing so well.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Yep…if Microsoft comes up with a name, it will be:

Windows Media Player, with Automatic Downloads of Audio and Video file that you can transfer to a plays for sure device and listen to at your leisure!

Apple has:

iTunes, now with Podcasting.

and they wonder why Apple’s doing so well.
RL

Last time I checked, WMP handles Mp3′s just fine and has given that option for ripping cd’s since WMP10. As far as AAC, that’s an Apple proprietary format. As far as those features are concerned its a moot point. I fall back to a basic premise that I follow on formats and that is “How much does it cost to get the software to create it?” Once again, the last time I checked Windows Media Encoder is free while Quicktime pro is $39.95. Now one might argue that MS is playing the Netscape vs. IE fight by offering the software free of charge, which is a legitimate arguement, but to downplay the lack of supporting competitors’ proprietary formats is a non-starter. One could say that Windows Media Encoder should support mpeg (an industry standard)encoding formats like media player supports mp3, that might be a discussion to have. Although I will say what’s good for the goose is also good for the gander. If you hold MS to these high ideals then hold every single other company that competes with them to the same standard. It’s only fair.
RL

Last time I checked, WMP handles Mp3′s just fine and has given that option for ripping cd’s since WMP10. As far as AAC, that’s an Apple proprietary format. As far as those features are concerned its a moot point. I fall back to a basic premise that I follow on formats and that is “How much does it cost to get the software to create it?” Once again, the last time I checked Windows Media Encoder is free while Quicktime pro is $39.95. Now one might argue that MS is playing the Netscape vs. IE fight by offering the software free of charge, which is a legitimate arguement, but to downplay the lack of supporting competitors’ proprietary formats is a non-starter. One could say that Windows Media Encoder should support mpeg (an industry standard)encoding formats like media player supports mp3, that might be a discussion to have. Although I will say what’s good for the goose is also good for the gander. If you hold MS to these high ideals then hold every single other company that competes with them to the same standard. It’s only fair.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

RL, try again. AAC is the audio component of MPEG 4, and as such is an open standard. Apple applies its proprietary DRM to the AAC files on the iTMS, but AAC is not “Apple’s” audio format.

So, yeah, again AAC, Open Standard, not proprietary.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

RL, try again. AAC is the audio component of MPEG 4, and as such is an open standard. Apple applies its proprietary DRM to the AAC files on the iTMS, but AAC is not “Apple’s” audio format.

So, yeah, again AAC, Open Standard, not proprietary.
http://www.cameronreilly.com/ Cameron Reilly

yeah Robert I’m confused by this lack of podcasting as well. I met with Sean Alexander, Keith Ballinger and some of the guys from the WMP team back in Feb 2005 before I hooked up with you and Buzz at Demo. That was a full 4 months before iTunes had podcast support. I was pretty convinced then that WMP would have podcasting support before long. 15 months later – nada. Quite disappointing. I agree with Todd – this is going to slow down podcast adoption. Having it in iTunes is great, but 50 million iPod owners is nothing compared to Microsoft’s reach.
http://www.cameronreilly.com Cameron Reilly

yeah Robert I’m confused by this lack of podcasting as well. I met with Sean Alexander, Keith Ballinger and some of the guys from the WMP team back in Feb 2005 before I hooked up with you and Buzz at Demo. That was a full 4 months before iTunes had podcast support. I was pretty convinced then that WMP would have podcasting support before long. 15 months later – nada. Quite disappointing. I agree with Todd – this is going to slow down podcast adoption. Having it in iTunes is great, but 50 million iPod owners is nothing compared to Microsoft’s reach.
http://www.georgholzer.net/thoughts Georg

A question to ROBERT: Is there any chance that the final product will ship with podcast-support?
http://www.georgholzer.net/thoughts Georg

A question to ROBERT: Is there any chance that the final product will ship with podcast-support?
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Dennis Moynihan

What is driving me nuts about WMP11 isn’t just the lack of native podcast support, but some very basic design problems that make it almost unusable for working with podcasts. I use Juice as an aggregator, and it will automatically build WMP playlists. Great. But, in WMP11 (and I think this differs from 10), when you view an item in a playlist, you can’t delete the item (with a right click context menu or delete key). That means it’s almost impossible to use playlists to manage podcasts, since cleaning up “old” podcasts is essential. You have to find the item in the library view to delete it, and that’s nuts because the ID3 tags for podcasts can be very inconsistent (meaning that “audio12432.mp3″ might have an album, might be different than the last episode, etc.

This highlights a lot of VERY inconsistent design cues in WMP (10 and unfortunately carried over to 11). For example, in the now playing window, you can right click to “find in library”. But, you can’t for the same item when viewing it in a playlist. And dumb things like having to set a switch to decide if the “delete” key removes the file, or just the item from the library (why not have a better design, like Azureus’ delete menu option). Too many secret buttons on the screen, rather than just clear, functional design (the list pane arrow, for example). A good app should never be a treasure hunt to use.

Using WMP seems very tedious. I was really hoping for a functional redesign with the 11 beta, and it almost seems like it’s nothing but a new skin (excluding Urge, which I won’t be using anyway).

Sigh.
Dennis Moynihan

What is driving me nuts about WMP11 isn’t just the lack of native podcast support, but some very basic design problems that make it almost unusable for working with podcasts. I use Juice as an aggregator, and it will automatically build WMP playlists. Great. But, in WMP11 (and I think this differs from 10), when you view an item in a playlist, you can’t delete the item (with a right click context menu or delete key). That means it’s almost impossible to use playlists to manage podcasts, since cleaning up “old” podcasts is essential. You have to find the item in the library view to delete it, and that’s nuts because the ID3 tags for podcasts can be very inconsistent (meaning that “audio12432.mp3″ might have an album, might be different than the last episode, etc.

This highlights a lot of VERY inconsistent design cues in WMP (10 and unfortunately carried over to 11). For example, in the now playing window, you can right click to “find in library”. But, you can’t for the same item when viewing it in a playlist. And dumb things like having to set a switch to decide if the “delete” key removes the file, or just the item from the library (why not have a better design, like Azureus’ delete menu option). Too many secret buttons on the screen, rather than just clear, functional design (the list pane arrow, for example). A good app should never be a treasure hunt to use.

Using WMP seems very tedious. I was really hoping for a functional redesign with the 11 beta, and it almost seems like it’s nothing but a new skin (excluding Urge, which I won’t be using anyway).

Sigh.
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Robert

A simple person comments: Regardless of all the discussion, I am a podcast junkie, and will stick with ITUNES until WMP makes it simple to subscribe, update and delete podcasts. Make it simple MS!
Robert

A simple person comments: Regardless of all the discussion, I am a podcast junkie, and will stick with ITUNES until WMP makes it simple to subscribe, update and delete podcasts. Make it simple MS!
http://www.sure23.com/ it

this is sure a great story i have learned so much .
i will apply to my site http://www.sure23.com/
will also upgrade to media player 11
http://www.sure23.com/ it

this is sure a great story i have learned so much .
i will apply to my site http://www.sure23.com/
will also upgrade to media player 11
Spatial Mongrel

Agree completely with the post by you, Robert, and thanks for it. I, like many others, spend 15 minutes searching through the help file to figure out how to get podcasting working. I couldn’t believe Microsoft would actually leave it out!

Post 7 – I completely agree – this drag-and-drop feature is ESSENTIAL and is a huge hole. Silly to remove it.

Post 46 – I also use Juice and am frustrated by the same playlist problem. Why on earth can’t I jump to the library from a playlist? Urge? Bah.

Too bad we need to vent about WMP11 here. Hope members of the development team look at your site!
Spatial Mongrel

Agree completely with the post by you, Robert, and thanks for it. I, like many others, spend 15 minutes searching through the help file to figure out how to get podcasting working. I couldn’t believe Microsoft would actually leave it out!

Post 7 – I completely agree – this drag-and-drop feature is ESSENTIAL and is a huge hole. Silly to remove it.

Post 46 – I also use Juice and am frustrated by the same playlist problem. Why on earth can’t I jump to the library from a playlist? Urge? Bah.

Too bad we need to vent about WMP11 here. Hope members of the development team look at your site!
Randall Lind

What sucks is the fact WMP 11 replaces most of my albums folder.jpg files with blank gray cd jpg’s ok nothing at all.
The sad fact is on my mp3 drive all looks normal. Then I open so see folder.jpg is now replace with {9999} album art and a folder.jpg which is all hidden.
I could careless about Podcast etc I don’t see why a already bloated player needs to become even more bloated. We got a lot of podcast software already Todd complains about bandwith all the time but he is will not be happy til podcasting is in every player I say screw it. MS can’t release vista podcasting option will delay it another 5 years!!

MS should not allow people to download beta only RC’s it really screws up crap.
Randall Lind

What sucks is the fact WMP 11 replaces most of my albums folder.jpg files with blank gray cd jpg’s ok nothing at all.
The sad fact is on my mp3 drive all looks normal. Then I open so see folder.jpg is now replace with {9999} album art and a folder.jpg which is all hidden.
I could careless about Podcast etc I don’t see why a already bloated player needs to become even more bloated. We got a lot of podcast software already Todd complains about bandwith all the time but he is will not be happy til podcasting is in every player I say screw it. MS can’t release vista podcasting option will delay it another 5 years!!

MS should not allow people to download beta only RC’s it really screws up crap.
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http://mainpost.org/ Scott Brison

Very entertaining issue. I haven’t heard of this one. It will be necessary to visit you on a thicket!
http://mainpost.org Scott Brison

Very entertaining issue. I haven’t heard of this one. It will be necessary to visit you on a thicket!

Windows Media 11′s lack of podcasting gets noticed

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