Steve Gillmor, you’re invited

I heard yesterday that Steve Gillmor isn't coming to Gnomedex. I know he always gives me crap for not inviting him to anything. So, heck, Steve, skip Gnomedex. You're invited to come and watch the World Cup games that week with me and Jeff Clavier at my house. Not to mention my BBQ on July 2.

Why do I want to share a beer with Steve while watching football (European style)? Cause of his letter to Bill Gates.

I too am concerned about the government's request. My brother, Ben (the guy who sells tools) and I had an argument about just this kind of topic a couple of weeks ago. He believes the government should have infinite powers to go after terrorists and criminals. "Hey, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right?"

That's a hard point of view to argue with, but it scares the heck out of me.

After all, who decides what is right or wrong? The majority. Heck, blonde-haired geeks aren't in the majority anymore. So, we gotta worry about this stuff. There are plenty of places in the world where they let this kind of thinking take hold in the government and my wife isn't living in Tehran anymore just because of this kind of thinking.

You know, this makes me think that it's time to partner with Google, Yahoo, Ebay, and the other companies so we, as an industry, will have a consistent and strong answer to government requests.

Larry and Sergey, this would be a great place for us to sit down and have a friendly discussion. Interested? You're invited to my house too. There might be more important things to come out of this than the World Cup on my HDTV.

Comments

  1. The govt gets to decide how much of OUR MONEY we get to keep, so.. what’s the difference? ;-)

    Like Ed Meese said: “If they weren’t guilty, they wouldn’t be suspects” ;-)

  2. The govt gets to decide how much of OUR MONEY we get to keep, so.. what’s the difference? ;-)

    Like Ed Meese said: “If they weren’t guilty, they wouldn’t be suspects” ;-)

  3. Am I invited to! ;)

    But yeah giving the government infinite powers to act as GOD could have some devastating effects, just like them movies where people are under watch everywhere they go, and though they are a clean civilian one day they find themselves being hunted down because somebody has hacked into the central database and changed one of their personal files thus making them look like they are a criminal and have broken certain law.

    Ok maybe a bit farfetched but it could happen, especially with all this talk about biometric ID Cards containing our personal record, would search information be stored on this, who know!

  4. Am I invited to! ;)

    But yeah giving the government infinite powers to act as GOD could have some devastating effects, just like them movies where people are under watch everywhere they go, and though they are a clean civilian one day they find themselves being hunted down because somebody has hacked into the central database and changed one of their personal files thus making them look like they are a criminal and have broken certain law.

    Ok maybe a bit farfetched but it could happen, especially with all this talk about biometric ID Cards containing our personal record, would search information be stored on this, who know!

  5. Zoli: well, luckily we’re not in a true democracy in the US, and have checks and balances on the majority. But that truly is scary.

    I met a guy with two RFID tags in his hands. That’s pretty freaky. And smacks of the numbers that Nazis would tatoo on Jews in the Holocaust.

    Them who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.

  6. Zoli: well, luckily we’re not in a true democracy in the US, and have checks and balances on the majority. But that truly is scary.

    I met a guy with two RFID tags in his hands. That’s pretty freaky. And smacks of the numbers that Nazis would tatoo on Jews in the Holocaust.

    Them who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.

  7. “Hey, if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right?”

    So, in essence, your brother is saying that the Soviet Union (as well as any other number of oppressive regimes) was right.

    It’s really amazing how we as a society are willing to give up are freedoms. Could you imagine this happening 20 years ago?

  8. “Hey, if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right?”

    So, in essence, your brother is saying that the Soviet Union (as well as any other number of oppressive regimes) was right.

    It’s really amazing how we as a society are willing to give up are freedoms. Could you imagine this happening 20 years ago?

  9. [...] I’ve been reading Scoble’s blog for awhile now. He’s always got something interesting to say (especially about things like blogging and Microsoft) and today when I read this post I wish I’d been wearing a hat so that I could take it off for him. He suggests that Microsft should partner with Google, Yahoo!, eBay, and other tech-giants so that as an industry they would have consistent answers to government requests. Way to go Scoble! Pleeease make this happen. Organize some meetings, pump people full of bagels and coffee and figure out exactly what the government is entitled to and then all agree to dig in your heels and refuse unreasonable and illegal requests. We as ordinary citizens don’t have the clout to protect our rights from invasive governments but the army of lawyers that is available to the likes of Microsoft and Google could possibly have an impact. A move in the right direction could even be great PR for the so-called "evil empire" of Microsoft if it could actually show its customers that selling them out for a profit isn’t the highest priority. While the current White House administration is arrogant and abusive of individual rights there’s nothing stopping future administrations from being even worse (hard as that may seem to be possible right now…) and any steps that can be taken to preserve these rights now will, hopefully, live on for many years to come. [...]

  10. Thanks ever so much for the offer Robert, I didn’t really think you would invite me, hence the wink, but you have and I would love to come, but there’s a slight problem, I would need to catch a flight to and from the UK.

    Which isn’t quite a suitable thing to do at the moment not while I’m paying my hefty tuition fees for my Degree. :(

    Though if I did have the money I would come straight over as I could also meet up with some others I’ve said I would come to see at some point, but hey I am planning a trip to the US at some point again, so I may give you a call then, whenever that is, to see if you’re free!

    Thanks again.

  11. Thanks ever so much for the offer Robert, I didn’t really think you would invite me, hence the wink, but you have and I would love to come, but there’s a slight problem, I would need to catch a flight to and from the UK.

    Which isn’t quite a suitable thing to do at the moment not while I’m paying my hefty tuition fees for my Degree. :(

    Though if I did have the money I would come straight over as I could also meet up with some others I’ve said I would come to see at some point, but hey I am planning a trip to the US at some point again, so I may give you a call then, whenever that is, to see if you’re free!

    Thanks again.

  12. Okay, beers at Robert’s house it is! I’ve just bought a 42″ HDTV, awesome looking television, but found out after I bought it that I need another peice of kit to watch HDTV’d on channels on the Sky TV!

    Can’t wait for the World Cup though – it really is the World’s largest sporting event, and yes it beats the Superbowl by MILES!

  13. Okay, beers at Robert’s house it is! I’ve just bought a 42″ HDTV, awesome looking television, but found out after I bought it that I need another peice of kit to watch HDTV’d on channels on the Sky TV!

    Can’t wait for the World Cup though – it really is the World’s largest sporting event, and yes it beats the Superbowl by MILES!

  14. Nice post Robert and I entirely agree with your sentiments about big tech companies coming together and protecting the citizen (and, in so doing, protecting their own relationship with same).

  15. Nice post Robert and I entirely agree with your sentiments about big tech companies coming together and protecting the citizen (and, in so doing, protecting their own relationship with same).

  16. It starts with giving permission for them to check your records, but then the number of hoops you have to jump through to renew your passport increases and it ends with people being imprisoned because of silly mistakes.

    There was a case in Britain where a fingerprint was found on a door-frame at the scene of a murder and it matched the fingerprint of a female police officer that they had on record. She was hounded and dragged through hearing after hearing for years with the authorities wanting to know why she was there, she insisted she had never been to the house, even doubted her own sanity until it was finally reviled that her print was wrongly matched to the one from the crime scene.

    America is moving towards being a Totalitarian Federation all the time and it’s just wrong. They might smile on the news and say they are doing things in the name of freedom, but they are still invading counteries and masekering civilions.

  17. It starts with giving permission for them to check your records, but then the number of hoops you have to jump through to renew your passport increases and it ends with people being imprisoned because of silly mistakes.

    There was a case in Britain where a fingerprint was found on a door-frame at the scene of a murder and it matched the fingerprint of a female police officer that they had on record. She was hounded and dragged through hearing after hearing for years with the authorities wanting to know why she was there, she insisted she had never been to the house, even doubted her own sanity until it was finally reviled that her print was wrongly matched to the one from the crime scene.

    America is moving towards being a Totalitarian Federation all the time and it’s just wrong. They might smile on the news and say they are doing things in the name of freedom, but they are still invading counteries and masekering civilions.

  18. almost 5 years removed from that fateful Sept day certainly shows us how feeble our memories are. Frankly given the choice between being burned alive or falling from a 90 story building or having the NSA listen to on e of my phone calls or look at what I searched for, I’ll take the latter.

    It was this exact fear of violating ones civil liberties that kept the NSA from acting on phone calls some of the 9/11 hijackers made. In 2004 NBC reported that these hijackers, who at the time had “done nothing wrong” and were just as innocent as you or I, received more than a dozen calls from an al Qaeda “switchboard” inside Yemen They received calls from Osama Bin Laden and relayed them to operatives around the world. The NSA had the actual phone number in the United States that the switchboard was calling. In hindsight I’m sure we all way that was one big missed opportunity. But by everyone’s definition to day, that would have been domestic spying. Again, these terrorists at the time were doing nothing wrong. Nothing illegal about getting phone calls from Osama bin-Laden, is there? You and I have the freedom to get and place calls to bin-Laden and discusss anything we want. We can plot anything we want. How do you know if somebody is planning “something wrong” unless you listen? Again, I’ll take my chances between that and getting blown up.

    It may also interest you to know several of the hijackers repeatedly accessed computers at public libraries in New Jersey and Florida, using personal Internet accounts to carry out the conspiracy. Two of them fouir times at a college library in New Jersey and ultimately purchased tickets for doomed flight 77 and later confirmed their reservations on Aug. 30. The point here is, I rather doubt the govt has the resources to investigate the millions of these types of searches that happen everyday. But, which potential hijacking flight would like for them to catch? Yours or your neighbors?

    And we all now know the FBI KNEW a couple of these hijackers were in the country in August and knew they were known associates of bin-Laden. They pleaded with the govt to watch them. Alas, they were denied. You know.. domestic spying and all. After all, at the time they were “doing nothing wrong”

    Of course it’s your choice. Me? I take my chances with them looking at me rather than taking a chance the next building, bus, or train I’m in gets blown up.

  19. almost 5 years removed from that fateful Sept day certainly shows us how feeble our memories are. Frankly given the choice between being burned alive or falling from a 90 story building or having the NSA listen to on e of my phone calls or look at what I searched for, I’ll take the latter.

    It was this exact fear of violating ones civil liberties that kept the NSA from acting on phone calls some of the 9/11 hijackers made. In 2004 NBC reported that these hijackers, who at the time had “done nothing wrong” and were just as innocent as you or I, received more than a dozen calls from an al Qaeda “switchboard” inside Yemen They received calls from Osama Bin Laden and relayed them to operatives around the world. The NSA had the actual phone number in the United States that the switchboard was calling. In hindsight I’m sure we all way that was one big missed opportunity. But by everyone’s definition to day, that would have been domestic spying. Again, these terrorists at the time were doing nothing wrong. Nothing illegal about getting phone calls from Osama bin-Laden, is there? You and I have the freedom to get and place calls to bin-Laden and discusss anything we want. We can plot anything we want. How do you know if somebody is planning “something wrong” unless you listen? Again, I’ll take my chances between that and getting blown up.

    It may also interest you to know several of the hijackers repeatedly accessed computers at public libraries in New Jersey and Florida, using personal Internet accounts to carry out the conspiracy. Two of them fouir times at a college library in New Jersey and ultimately purchased tickets for doomed flight 77 and later confirmed their reservations on Aug. 30. The point here is, I rather doubt the govt has the resources to investigate the millions of these types of searches that happen everyday. But, which potential hijacking flight would like for them to catch? Yours or your neighbors?

    And we all now know the FBI KNEW a couple of these hijackers were in the country in August and knew they were known associates of bin-Laden. They pleaded with the govt to watch them. Alas, they were denied. You know.. domestic spying and all. After all, at the time they were “doing nothing wrong”

    Of course it’s your choice. Me? I take my chances with them looking at me rather than taking a chance the next building, bus, or train I’m in gets blown up.

  20. “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.” – Cardinal Richelieu (linked from Schneier’s Value of Privacy blog post)

  21. “If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.” – Cardinal Richelieu (linked from Schneier’s Value of Privacy blog post)

  22. That’s a great memo to Bill! It’s too bad that Steve didn’t finish the tie to Trustworthy computing: A trustworthy computer doesn’t rat you out.

  23. That’s a great memo to Bill! It’s too bad that Steve didn’t finish the tie to Trustworthy computing: A trustworthy computer doesn’t rat you out.

  24. dmad: my recollections of history go back a bit further. Let’s see, in the 1940s six million jews, homosexuals, and other people, were killed. How many died in 2001? About 3,000, right?

    What’s the greater evil?

  25. dmad: my recollections of history go back a bit further. Let’s see, in the 1940s six million jews, homosexuals, and other people, were killed. How many died in 2001? About 3,000, right?

    What’s the greater evil?

  26. @18. Thanks for trivializing those 3000 lives. I’m sure the families will appreciate it. Puh..leeze. Are you suggesting we are heading towards Facism? More hyperbole from you. What else is new? Wasn’t it you that said we have checks and balances? Did Hitler have checks and balances? I’m sure your recollection of history also has you remembering the people of Germany WANTED a dictator? I’m sure you remember Germany had pretty much an ineffective Constitution that allowed, for example, the “president” complete power during “emergencies”. An example of an “emergency” would have been parlament being deadlocked. I’m sure you also remember Germany had 28 politcal parites, which made it pretty much impossible for any sort of majority to take hold. You do remember that part of history,right? (Likely not if you went to public school in the US). You also likey remember Hitler getting the working class, academic pointy-heads, and the unemployed on his side and against the wealty and conservative Republic. (Sound familiar?) But I digress.

    Again, if you want to have privacy trump everything, be my guest. I gave you examples of how that became risky. If you think losing a mere 3000 lives is something to be trivialized by comparison to other events in history, that’s your perogative. I myself, having lost friends on the tragic day, think otherwise.

    You do know these NSA laws have been on the books for years, right? If you think this that NSA hasn’t been listening to conversations up until now, this is just another example of your naivite.

    And how long did the rest of the world stayed “neutral” and essentially turned its back on those 6MM Jews? Thus given is a GREAT example of how
    “negotiation” and “talking” works. But that’s a whole different conversation entirely

  27. @18. Thanks for trivializing those 3000 lives. I’m sure the families will appreciate it. Puh..leeze. Are you suggesting we are heading towards Facism? More hyperbole from you. What else is new? Wasn’t it you that said we have checks and balances? Did Hitler have checks and balances? I’m sure your recollection of history also has you remembering the people of Germany WANTED a dictator? I’m sure you remember Germany had pretty much an ineffective Constitution that allowed, for example, the “president” complete power during “emergencies”. An example of an “emergency” would have been parlament being deadlocked. I’m sure you also remember Germany had 28 politcal parites, which made it pretty much impossible for any sort of majority to take hold. You do remember that part of history,right? (Likely not if you went to public school in the US). You also likey remember Hitler getting the working class, academic pointy-heads, and the unemployed on his side and against the wealty and conservative Republic. (Sound familiar?) But I digress.

    Again, if you want to have privacy trump everything, be my guest. I gave you examples of how that became risky. If you think losing a mere 3000 lives is something to be trivialized by comparison to other events in history, that’s your perogative. I myself, having lost friends on the tragic day, think otherwise.

    You do know these NSA laws have been on the books for years, right? If you think this that NSA hasn’t been listening to conversations up until now, this is just another example of your naivite.

    And how long did the rest of the world stayed “neutral” and essentially turned its back on those 6MM Jews? Thus given is a GREAT example of how
    “negotiation” and “talking” works. But that’s a whole different conversation entirely

  28. Re: “Zoli: well, luckily we’re not in a true democracy in the US, and have checks and balances on the majority. But that truly is scary.”

    In a true democracy, the majority is well informed on the real facts, enough to make their own decision.

    For that to be the case, you need to have good media. And today this is a problem. That’s what you should be afraid of. The media spinning the RFID chips as something positive, and misleading the majority.

    I recently wrote about this here:
    http://www.miraesoft.com/karel/2006/06/03/orwell-rolls-in-his-grave/

  29. Re: “Zoli: well, luckily we’re not in a true democracy in the US, and have checks and balances on the majority. But that truly is scary.”

    In a true democracy, the majority is well informed on the real facts, enough to make their own decision.

    For that to be the case, you need to have good media. And today this is a problem. That’s what you should be afraid of. The media spinning the RFID chips as something positive, and misleading the majority.

    I recently wrote about this here:
    http://www.miraesoft.com/karel/2006/06/03/orwell-rolls-in-his-grave/

  30. @20 Actually in a true democracy you have mob rule. And the minority’s interests are rarely addressed

    As Jonah Goldberg wrote: “Democracy means that 51% of the people can pee in the cornflakes of 49% of the people”

    For example, if we had democracy gay marriage would never even see the light of day. Because “the majority” is opposed to gay marriage.

    “A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men.” Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

  31. @20 Actually in a true democracy you have mob rule. And the minority’s interests are rarely addressed

    As Jonah Goldberg wrote: “Democracy means that 51% of the people can pee in the cornflakes of 49% of the people”

    For example, if we had democracy gay marriage would never even see the light of day. Because “the majority” is opposed to gay marriage.

    “A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men.” Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

  32. Regarding the Holocaust, if the majority of the people in Germany thought it was “right” to commit their unthinkable horrific acts, why do we think it is “wrong”? If you subscribe to the idea that the majority determines “right” and “wrong”, why are we criticizing them? Why are we so sure that our “right” and “wrong” is correct, while their “right” and “wrong” is “wrong”?

    It would seem that we all subscribe to an absolute “right” and “wrong”, and use that to judge other people/nations/civilizations. If you subscribe to the idea of absolute “right” and “wrong”, (like I do) then the Holocaust *IS* horrific, because the Nazis broke the unchanging “absolute” law.

  33. Regarding the Holocaust, if the majority of the people in Germany thought it was “right” to commit their unthinkable horrific acts, why do we think it is “wrong”? If you subscribe to the idea that the majority determines “right” and “wrong”, why are we criticizing them? Why are we so sure that our “right” and “wrong” is correct, while their “right” and “wrong” is “wrong”?

    It would seem that we all subscribe to an absolute “right” and “wrong”, and use that to judge other people/nations/civilizations. If you subscribe to the idea of absolute “right” and “wrong”, (like I do) then the Holocaust *IS* horrific, because the Nazis broke the unchanging “absolute” law.

  34. FWIW, dmad, I’d rather risk getting blown up than roll over and give up the civil liberties so many Americans died to protect over the last 200 years. And there’s no machismo in that — my elderly mother feels exactly the same way, as do most folks I know.

    As Ben Franklin famously said, “He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.” Many people still believe that kind of stuff, and it’s not because we have feeble memories of 9/11 or because we have things to hide from the NSA.

  35. FWIW, dmad, I’d rather risk getting blown up than roll over and give up the civil liberties so many Americans died to protect over the last 200 years. And there’s no machismo in that — my elderly mother feels exactly the same way, as do most folks I know.

    As Ben Franklin famously said, “He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.” Many people still believe that kind of stuff, and it’s not because we have feeble memories of 9/11 or because we have things to hide from the NSA.

  36. @21 Well that’s a democracy for ya. The majority’s opinion goes.
    I would think that when people are informed, they are smart enough to make the right decision, meaning, if you present people with all the relavant facts, they should all be able to come to the right conclusions most of the time.
    The problem starts when you have a small group of people or media organizations selectively reporting stuff, and not informing the majority well enough, leading them to come to the wrong conclusions.
    That is the case right now, and that’s what you should be worried about.

  37. @21 Well that’s a democracy for ya. The majority’s opinion goes.
    I would think that when people are informed, they are smart enough to make the right decision, meaning, if you present people with all the relavant facts, they should all be able to come to the right conclusions most of the time.
    The problem starts when you have a small group of people or media organizations selectively reporting stuff, and not informing the majority well enough, leading them to come to the wrong conclusions.
    That is the case right now, and that’s what you should be worried about.

  38. @23. But you aren’t giving up your civil liberties. And again, it’s naive to think this is the first time the NSA has been listening in on phone calls. I mean, hell, Clinton and Carter ordered warrantless NSA surveillance through their executive powers and no one was bitching about that. On top of that, federal courts have ruled that the President (whoever is in power) has the consitutional authority to conduct warrantless foreign intelligence surveillance.

    Look, if you don’t care the your law abiding non-citizen neighbor might be having daily calls with al-Queda operatives planning to blow up the next bus you take, that’s fine. Me? I’d rather not take my chances.

    Moreover, the Justice dept doesn’t have the resources to listen in on EVERY PHONE CALL or look at EVERY SEARCH on the internet, so let’s check our paranoia.

  39. @23. But you aren’t giving up your civil liberties. And again, it’s naive to think this is the first time the NSA has been listening in on phone calls. I mean, hell, Clinton and Carter ordered warrantless NSA surveillance through their executive powers and no one was bitching about that. On top of that, federal courts have ruled that the President (whoever is in power) has the consitutional authority to conduct warrantless foreign intelligence surveillance.

    Look, if you don’t care the your law abiding non-citizen neighbor might be having daily calls with al-Queda operatives planning to blow up the next bus you take, that’s fine. Me? I’d rather not take my chances.

    Moreover, the Justice dept doesn’t have the resources to listen in on EVERY PHONE CALL or look at EVERY SEARCH on the internet, so let’s check our paranoia.

  40. @24 Ah yes, the Wisdom of Crowds. There’s a difference between a democracy and an “informed electorate”. What you are describing is an informed electorate” A nirvana to say the least. Hell, we barely get a majority of the population to vote, even if they were informed. Thank God we don’t have a democracy. I don’t worry because we have a representative government with checks and balances. The best protection we can have is a divided Congress and Executive branch. Gridlock the best thing we can have.

  41. @24 Ah yes, the Wisdom of Crowds. There’s a difference between a democracy and an “informed electorate”. What you are describing is an informed electorate” A nirvana to say the least. Hell, we barely get a majority of the population to vote, even if they were informed. Thank God we don’t have a democracy. I don’t worry because we have a representative government with checks and balances. The best protection we can have is a divided Congress and Executive branch. Gridlock the best thing we can have.

  42. @25 I think you’re forgetting about the technology that exists today. That tech surely enables the government to “listen to” every phone call and “look at” every search.

    @26 It is an ideal situation, and perhaps you can never get everyone informed, but the majority should be possible.
    But right now, it is impossible thanks to the corporate media.

  43. @25 I think you’re forgetting about the technology that exists today. That tech surely enables the government to “listen to” every phone call and “look at” every search.

    @26 It is an ideal situation, and perhaps you can never get everyone informed, but the majority should be possible.
    But right now, it is impossible thanks to the corporate media.

  44. @28 I gather you’ve never worked for the Federal government? ;-). Let’s review how efficient things were on Sept 10th, 2001. ;-)

    @28. Again, the majority is not even interested in voting.

  45. @28 I gather you’ve never worked for the Federal government? ;-). Let’s review how efficient things were on Sept 10th, 2001. ;-)

    @28. Again, the majority is not even interested in voting.

  46. World’s largest sporting event

    Well yeah, being in Sao Paulo during the Cups, almost as if Earthquakes go off every time Brazil gets even close (an experience that’s hard to put into words, you hafta be there), but even that STILL couldn’t beat the Cubbies winning the World Series. I mean…what else matters that much?

    As for the politics rant/bit (don’t quit your day job), I trust experts. You wouldn’t want the “wisdom of the masses” doing open heart surgery now would yah?

    PS – I am gonna hafta fact check your ass (as that saying goes). That Frnaklin quote is a widely distro’ed error, Franklin did not write ‘An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania’ from which that quote sprang, altough similar sentiments where in Poor Richards. Even if granted that Franklin was the author, the ACTUAL quote reads a bit differing.

    See Richard Minsky’s research rant on said topic…

    http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader$605

  47. World’s largest sporting event

    Well yeah, being in Sao Paulo during the Cups, almost as if Earthquakes go off every time Brazil gets even close (an experience that’s hard to put into words, you hafta be there), but even that STILL couldn’t beat the Cubbies winning the World Series. I mean…what else matters that much?

    As for the politics rant/bit (don’t quit your day job), I trust experts. You wouldn’t want the “wisdom of the masses” doing open heart surgery now would yah?

    PS – I am gonna hafta fact check your ass (as that saying goes). That Frnaklin quote is a widely distro’ed error, Franklin did not write ‘An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania’ from which that quote sprang, altough similar sentiments where in Poor Richards. Even if granted that Franklin was the author, the ACTUAL quote reads a bit differing.

    See Richard Minsky’s research rant on said topic…

    http://www.futureofthebook.com/stories/storyReader$605