The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

July 6, 2006 By

Interesting article in Computer Business Review Online. Open Source companies are urged to remain European by Matt Asay, director of the Open Source Business Conference.

I have been talking about this with quite a few people lately because my readers seemed to favor doing a show about things happening “outside the valley.” I started noticing an anti-Silicon Valley sentiment on my trips last year.

Part of it is jealousy. When so many geek dinners happen in the shadow of San Francisco it makes everyone else uneasy. But, there’s something deeper and I think this article tapped into it: money and jobs.

If you’re a geek outside of San Francisco or Redmond, it’s hard to get a job in the industry.

And, worse, if you are a fledgling company and you need to expand, if you aren’t in one of those areas it’s hard to find great potential workers.

Lots of people fight with me on this one, but the culture in the valley is really unique too. Geeks go there and they don’t want to leave because everywhere around them they hear people talking tech — it’s an addictive culture for someone who just wants to build stuff. I didn’t sense the same culture in Europe until I got to a conference. I didn’t see people working on computers in cafes or on the trains the way I do in California — and when I did I never saw someone running a compiler like I find in California or Redmond. I didn’t see “maker behavior” until I got to the conference sites. I’ll have to do a lot better at explaining what I mean, but you can sense it when you go to a restaurant.

One thing I also notice is that in California smoking isn’t allowed. Anywhere. Most geeks that I know don’t smoke. So, are we going to move somewhere that smoking is allowed everywhere? No.

I’ll never live in a smoking-allowed area again. Many geeks get really turned off by the smoking culture. Yeah, I know there are lots of geeks who smoke too, but they are only about 20%, even in Europe where it seems everyone smokes.

You might say it doesn’t matter, but get the non-smoking geeks alone and they’ll admit they hate the smoking culture in Europe. It is starting to change, by the way. In Ireland they had banned smoking in pubs. I hear that anti-smoking laws are spreading throughout Europe. That’s a small step to keeping tech in Europe instead of letting it come to San Francisco.

Filed Under: 1
← Older Comments
  • dmad

    Scoble, you were that obsessed with figure out who smokes and who doesn’t? Scary. Any other behaviors you disapprove of that you are monitoring?

    The point is, almost every figure you come up with seems to be pulled out of your ass but you seem to want to state it as fact.

  • dmad

    Scoble, you were that obsessed with figure out who smokes and who doesn’t? Scary. Any other behaviors you disapprove of that you are monitoring?

    The point is, almost every figure you come up with seems to be pulled out of your ass but you seem to want to state it as fact.

  • http://sandeep.wordpress.com/ Sandeep

    Come to India – the food aint half bad either!!

  • http://sandeep.wordpress.com Sandeep

    Come to India – the food aint half bad either!!

  • dmad

    @72, and Jonathan Postel did is work at…eek UCLA.. Los Angeles, which is NOT SV.

    LDAP came out of the Univ of Michigan

    And let’s not forget the ITU.

    I’m not seeing much history coming out of SV given these last few posts. Remind me again why it’s the computing center of the universe?

  • dmad

    @72, and Jonathan Postel did is work at…eek UCLA.. Los Angeles, which is NOT SV.

    LDAP came out of the Univ of Michigan

    And let’s not forget the ITU.

    I’m not seeing much history coming out of SV given these last few posts. Remind me again why it’s the computing center of the universe?

  • http://www.puls200.de/ WitweBolte

    Maybe it’s more about evolution. In short, the evolution towards non smoking environments fosters technical achievements by attracting more capable people. Is that true?
    I think the attractiveness of a life in the US has much deteriorated in the eyes of many Europeans in recent years. The way you are treated at the airports and by officials for example. But thats just another primitive stereotype growing like that in the original post.

  • http://www.puls200.de WitweBolte

    Maybe it’s more about evolution. In short, the evolution towards non smoking environments fosters technical achievements by attracting more capable people. Is that true?
    I think the attractiveness of a life in the US has much deteriorated in the eyes of many Europeans in recent years. The way you are treated at the airports and by officials for example. But thats just another primitive stereotype growing like that in the original post.

  • http://www.knickersblog.com/ nae

    I think the underlying arrogance of this post is what really puts me off. You say Europe is losing tech people because of its bad cultural choices, but I expatriated from the US for the same reason. A lot of very bright people will prefer Europe to the US, partly because of the needless arrogance and need for dominance demonstrated here.

  • http://www.knickersblog.com nae

    I think the underlying arrogance of this post is what really puts me off. You say Europe is losing tech people because of its bad cultural choices, but I expatriated from the US for the same reason. A lot of very bright people will prefer Europe to the US, partly because of the needless arrogance and need for dominance demonstrated here.

  • Matt

    Got to say the assumption that the only talent is in the Valley is pretty outdated. Irrespective of whether companies should be moving from Europe or not, you have to admit some of the best open source developments have come out of Europe.

    That said, I’ve created a pretty pointless web 2.0 mashup thingy that shows precisely where the current open source vendors are based. One thing it does show is that open source is very much a Silicon Valley phenomenon.

  • Matt

    Got to say the assumption that the only talent is in the Valley is pretty outdated. Irrespective of whether companies should be moving from Europe or not, you have to admit some of the best open source developments have come out of Europe.

    That said, I’ve created a pretty pointless web 2.0 mashup thingy that shows precisely where the current open source vendors are based. One thing it does show is that open source is very much a Silicon Valley phenomenon.

  • Jim Stanton

    Sorry Robert, but you’re on crack if you think its hard to get a job outside the valley. Boston is booming again, and my friends in southern california are all fully employed.

  • Jim Stanton

    Sorry Robert, but you’re on crack if you think its hard to get a job outside the valley. Boston is booming again, and my friends in southern california are all fully employed.

  • Gene

    Robert,

    Let’s not forget about Northern Virginia/DC Metro Area. 90% of the world’s (yes, world’s) Internet traffic passes through NOVA every day. There are as many tech companies here as there are in SV. The pay is the same. There are more Ph.Ds and Masters Degree holders here than anywhere else in the country. The average salary here for geeks is just under 6 figures, many exceeding 200k a year. We’re talking geeks here. I work in IT security and I personally make 105k a year. Guess what? I’m moving to the midwest because, Like Pepe so expertly put it, people think their **** doesn’t stink in places like this and in SV. People go into debt and drive stupidly expensive cars to impress people they don’t even know. People shop at overproced stores and eat at vastly overpriced restaurants to impress people they don’t know around them. People do this to show people they don’t know they’ve somehow “arrived.” Arrived at what? Debt, stupidly high monthly mortgage that exceeds the recommended 20% of one’s monthly salary, $500 a month car payments, and a whole slew of other dumb things.
    I want out. I am going to take a $50k a ear job to enjoy my family, no traffic, a nice home in a quiet area, a good church life, etc. There are geeks there. It’s actually more fun when there are fewer geeks, not more. I work and live next to geeks. I want to talk to the barista chicks, the farmers, the waitress. I want to talk with real people about real issues, not just what stupid browser plug-ins someone uses.

  • Gene

    Robert,

    Let’s not forget about Northern Virginia/DC Metro Area. 90% of the world’s (yes, world’s) Internet traffic passes through NOVA every day. There are as many tech companies here as there are in SV. The pay is the same. There are more Ph.Ds and Masters Degree holders here than anywhere else in the country. The average salary here for geeks is just under 6 figures, many exceeding 200k a year. We’re talking geeks here. I work in IT security and I personally make 105k a year. Guess what? I’m moving to the midwest because, Like Pepe so expertly put it, people think their **** doesn’t stink in places like this and in SV. People go into debt and drive stupidly expensive cars to impress people they don’t even know. People shop at overproced stores and eat at vastly overpriced restaurants to impress people they don’t know around them. People do this to show people they don’t know they’ve somehow “arrived.” Arrived at what? Debt, stupidly high monthly mortgage that exceeds the recommended 20% of one’s monthly salary, $500 a month car payments, and a whole slew of other dumb things.
    I want out. I am going to take a $50k a ear job to enjoy my family, no traffic, a nice home in a quiet area, a good church life, etc. There are geeks there. It’s actually more fun when there are fewer geeks, not more. I work and live next to geeks. I want to talk to the barista chicks, the farmers, the waitress. I want to talk with real people about real issues, not just what stupid browser plug-ins someone uses.

  • Jamie

    Hm, you got lots of bites on smoking, but not about the location issue. On the latter, why AREN’T we as a community evolving more quickly past geo-fixated social networks?
    There are lots of businesses now with remote & highly asynch staff. Modulo a few Gen-X VC influences (“I-don’t-want-my-money-going-farther-away-than-a 90-minute-drive”). But when describing the ~virtue~ of SV, Rob & commenters here seem to focus on future networking potential. It’s OK if my direct reports are in Bangalore and Boston, but I want to be in the same county as my ideal next partner or employer? Hm, is this more of a “next gig” than a “current gig” thing?
    I know some coders in Hungary who are just as sure as you that there’s no worthwhile geek life outside of one or two places … but for them, all of them are in Eastern Europe. Not sure this is a global Valley-centric issue. Maybe more like a common tendency not to like dealing with unfamiliar environments?

  • Jamie

    Hm, you got lots of bites on smoking, but not about the location issue. On the latter, why AREN’T we as a community evolving more quickly past geo-fixated social networks?
    There are lots of businesses now with remote & highly asynch staff. Modulo a few Gen-X VC influences (“I-don’t-want-my-money-going-farther-away-than-a 90-minute-drive”). But when describing the ~virtue~ of SV, Rob & commenters here seem to focus on future networking potential. It’s OK if my direct reports are in Bangalore and Boston, but I want to be in the same county as my ideal next partner or employer? Hm, is this more of a “next gig” than a “current gig” thing?
    I know some coders in Hungary who are just as sure as you that there’s no worthwhile geek life outside of one or two places … but for them, all of them are in Eastern Europe. Not sure this is a global Valley-centric issue. Maybe more like a common tendency not to like dealing with unfamiliar environments?

  • Jamie

    Hm, you got lots of bites on smoking, but not about the location issue. On the latter, why AREN’T we as a community evolving more quickly past geo-fixated social networks?
    There are lots of businesses now with remote & highly asynch staff. Modulo a few Gen-X VC influences (“I-don’t-want-my-money-going-farther-away-than-a 90-minute-drive”). But when describing the ~virtue~ of SV, Rob & commenters here seem to focus on future networking potential. It’s OK if my direct reports are in Bangalore and Boston, but I want to be in the same county as my ideal next partner or employer? Hm, is this more of a “next gig” than a “current gig” thing?
    I know some coders in Hungary who are just as sure as you that there’s no worthwhile geek life outside of one or two places … but for them, all of them are in Eastern Europe. Not sure this is a global Valley-centric issue. Maybe more like a common tendency not to like dealing with unfamiliar environments?

  • http://www.allpointsnorth.co.uk/ Chris Brennan

    It’s all about cash. That is all.

  • http://www.allpointsnorth.co.uk/ Chris Brennan

    It’s all about cash. That is all.

  • http://www.allpointsnorth.co.uk Chris Brennan

    It’s all about cash. That is all.

  • Pingback: Georg Holzer » Der Unterschied zum Valley

  • Pingback: MySQL Developer » Blog Archive » The Valley really, really wants open source location to matter

  • http://www.buzzworkers.com/loudblog Ben Borges

    I like the “fix your culture” when 80% of all tobaccos giants come from your such “clean” country..make me think of Marlboro and all the rest..your comparison is totally irrelevant ! geek are only in SF, for me your read too much fiction !

  • http://www.buzzworkers.com/loudblog Ben Borges

    I like the “fix your culture” when 80% of all tobaccos giants come from your such “clean” country..make me think of Marlboro and all the rest..your comparison is totally irrelevant ! geek are only in SF, for me your read too much fiction !

  • http://www.buzzworkers.com/loudblog Ben Borges

    I like the “fix your culture” when 80% of all tobaccos giants come from your such “clean” country..make me think of Marlboro and all the rest..your comparison is totally irrelevant ! geek are only in SF, for me your read too much fiction !

  • Terence

    I think your next step should be claiming a Nobel Prize for your new look at economics. You’re probably reading too much Freakonomics. Your post is amazingly dumb and self-centered. And since you’re definitely not a dumb person, I’m forced to believe you wrote this just to get comments like mine and keep your A-list vanity going on. Which is close to dumb. Oh man, you’re absolutely omphalocentric. One day you’ll realize the world out there couldn’t care less about your babble. I do care, unfortunately – that’s part of my environment. Just to avoid any attempt at “if you’re against me, you’re either a smoker or an “european” (as if there’s such): I don’t smoke. I never did. And I’m neither European nor born in the US.

  • Terence

    I think your next step should be claiming a Nobel Prize for your new look at economics. You’re probably reading too much Freakonomics. Your post is amazingly dumb and self-centered. And since you’re definitely not a dumb person, I’m forced to believe you wrote this just to get comments like mine and keep your A-list vanity going on. Which is close to dumb. Oh man, you’re absolutely omphalocentric. One day you’ll realize the world out there couldn’t care less about your babble. I do care, unfortunately – that’s part of my environment. Just to avoid any attempt at “if you’re against me, you’re either a smoker or an “european” (as if there’s such): I don’t smoke. I never did. And I’m neither European nor born in the US.

  • Terence

    I think your next step should be claiming a Nobel Prize for your new look at economics. You’re probably reading too much Freakonomics. Your post is amazingly dumb and self-centered. And since you’re definitely not a dumb person, I’m forced to believe you wrote this just to get comments like mine and keep your A-list vanity going on. Which is close to dumb. Oh man, you’re absolutely omphalocentric. One day you’ll realize the world out there couldn’t care less about your babble. I do care, unfortunately – that’s part of my environment. Just to avoid any attempt at “if you’re against me, you’re either a smoker or an “european” (as if there’s such): I don’t smoke. I never did. And I’m neither European nor born in the US.

  • Terence

    Oh, by the way, you do know there’s a world out there of development in the mobile field, don’t you? And that this is led by Japan, South Korea and Europe, don’t you?

  • Terence

    Oh, by the way, you do know there’s a world out there of development in the mobile field, don’t you? And that this is led by Japan, South Korea and Europe, don’t you?

  • Terence

    Oh, by the way, you do know there’s a world out there of development in the mobile field, don’t you? And that this is led by Japan, South Korea and Europe, don’t you?

  • rick

    Complaining about air pollution?

    Own a car?

    Naturally, it’s much easier blaming smokers for emphysema in schoolchildren rather than internal combustion engines..

    “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

  • rick

    Complaining about air pollution?

    Own a car?

    Naturally, it’s much easier blaming smokers for emphysema in schoolchildren rather than internal combustion engines..

    “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

  • rick

    Complaining about air pollution?

    Own a car?

    Naturally, it’s much easier blaming smokers for emphysema in schoolchildren rather than internal combustion engines..

    “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

← Older Comments