I didn’t know that Tim lived in Lebanon

Hopefully this dispute in the middle east will be resolved quickly, otherwise it may evolve into something bigger.

I think it already has --at least in some people's minds -

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/16/newt-world-...

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, Lebanon was known as the "switzerland of the middle east". too bad that they let the Hezbollah take over the country!

they have only themselves to blame.

So, what's the point ?
I live in Israel right now. Tim Bray is stupid with his "look in the mirror" saying, because who usually say this ?

@Tim Bray...“look in the mirror”

A very poor statement. Anyway, Muslims are not bad people, they are just too far behind. Israel is a high tech country and I believe have no reason to start a fight.

The Muslims have too much frustration & aggression, they blame the world for the poor situation that they are in. I live in Denmark and I see them every day. They are looking for problems, they are super aggressive and overall they never really contribute anything to our country. Just look what they did to us with the famous 'Muhammad cartoons'...what a joke.

My advise to the Muslims will be - get a life and just do something useful instead of just driving me to the airport with your taxi and bitch on the way! Israel, the US or the rest of the planet are not the problem! You guys are.

Maybe Lebanon needs a very large mirror.

For living in Lebanon for 11 years, Tim Bray doesn't seem to realize that Hezbollah rules the country, not the Lebanese government. I find it intriguing that he would seek to defend a terrorist group that disguises its soldiers as civilians, indiscriminately launches rockets into Israel to kill civilians and then blames Israel when targeted missiles blow up infrastructre.

Perhaps if Hezbollah wasn't such a group of cowards who disguised themselves as civilians we wouldn't have to read about all the casualties.

On a side note, Israel has nukes and could easily do some Middle East terraforming.

It's funny how the Internet slyly encourages you to lose perception of geographic location. As long as the content is there, we'll keep coming back for more, no matter where its origination is. At Gnomedex, I met someone whose name and blog I was familiar with, and come to find out, he only lives about ten minutes away from me. I had no idea!

Jamal:
"I've noticed a high number of Israelis on Lebanese blogs these days claiming they want peace."
http://jamalghosn.blogspot.com/2006/07/angry-ol...
{via http://www.bigpharaoh.com/]

See also:
Blog of the Day: Crisis in the Middle East
http://divedi.blogspot.com/2006/07/blog-of-day-...

The comments here are just hilarious

@#3 "too bad that they let the Hezbollah take over the country!"

Hizbullah by far has not taken over the country - the majority of Lebanese are not Hizbullah supporters - infact the movement within the country has been increasingly calling for the dissarmament of Hizbullah's military wing - a goal most expected to be achieved within the coming years. By increasingly hitting Lebanese infrastructure and civilian targets the isreali government is has played into Hizbullah's plans and cemented its popularity.

@#5 "The Muslims have too much frustration & aggression, they blame the world for the poor situation that they are in. "

"The Muslims"? really? The Lebanese population might be a majority Muslim one but that does not mean that other religions do not feature largely in the society and culture [Christian and Druze religions are a huge part of the country] I always get amused when people generalize based on religion. Lebanese are Lebanese - not Muslims - not Syrians - not Arabs. Lebanese. In this day and age I find it absurd that any country can possibly define its identity based solely on a religion [and I am sure all Lebanese will agree with this] The fact that you have to continuously label Lebanese as "Muslim extremists" might have more to do with the basic building block of israel as a jewish state - you need to label other countries by their religion becuase in your mind it is your religion that justifies your country's very existance - pretty pathetic considering this is the 21st century.

@#6 "I find it intriguing that he would seek to defend a terrorist group that disguises its soldiers as civilians, indiscriminately launches rockets into Israel to kill civilians and then blames Israel when targeted missiles blow up infrastructre."

I find it intriguing that Hizbullah is the only one being labelled a terrorist group here. They kidnapped and attacked military targets - israel responded by indiscriminately hitting civilian targets and infrastructure - as it always does.

Considering everything that has happened in Lebanon over the past two years the time was ripe for israel to push for a peace initiative - instead they ignore that and push Lebanon back into the hands of its other neighbour - Syria - from whom they thought themselves to have finally been liberated.

What shocks me most is the amount of blind "loyalty" from outside observers to these two groups - Are you aware that the people begging most for peace in the middle east are those living there? Its so easy to pass judgement and condemn entire peoples to a life of suffering when you live on another continent. Its so easy to back your governments forrays into someone elses land and to cheer at the missiles destroying someone elses home when you yourself are immune from ever having to deal with something like that befalling you or your loved ones.

I would not wish upon any of you the hardship that the Lebanese people have had to go through and continuously get dragged into throughout their lives. Let me just say that it has been going on for too long. We are fed up having our homes destroyed and used as the battlefield in everyone elses war. We are fed up of having to rebuild our economy and our infrastructure whilst dealing with corrupt officials and puppet governments put in place to suck dry any chances of moving out of this rut. We are fed up with watching the news and praying that the neighbourhood being shown in tatters is not ours - that we do not recognize the rubble as that of a friend's home. But most of all we are fed up of the snide comments and know-it-all condescending remarks that we have to suffer from people that never have and never will know the fear associated with watching your whole life crumble on some tv channel.

I'll post the comment I mailed Tim:

"Last time I looked, Tim, Israel had pulled out of Gaza and out of Lebanon. News flash, since you weren't paying attention: Syria and Iran armed Hizbullah and Hamas to the teeth, and since last spring, both have been firing rockets into Israel. Clearly that didn't bother you; you've said nothing about it. Now that Israel has started fighting back, suddenly you care.

What would you suggest Israel do, confronted with nations and factions whose stated goal is to erase their nation from the map?"

Tim said nothing during the last few months while Hizbullah lobbed rockets into northern Israel from Lebanon. Suddenly, when the country that hosts the terrorists doing that gets hit back, he cares. Either he's not been paying attention - or it's something far, far worse. I'll let him tell me which it is.

Maybe if some group moved north of Vancouver and spent months lobbing rockets into his neighborhood he'd get it.

Editing comments out that you don't like now, Robert? I didn't think you did that.

Oh geez, ignore my comment above. My browser refreshed badly somehow.

I enjoy good times with some Lebanese, Iranian, Israeli and Uzbeki families here in Tulsa. The stories they share are of hard times made harder by the conditions they endured. Conditions you and I would not care to have visit us.

So, what do they do? They save up enough meager resources and move away from their homeland, their roots going back many hundreds of years. They have intense national pride. They shed tears when the news from "home" is extreme (both good and bad).

They came to America for the promise of opportunity and something better for future generations (no different than our migrating ancestors). Maybe that's how Mr. Bray came stateside (I don't know his story). I do know this - I don't share his view that the collective "we" are to blame for the dying children of the Middle East. Maybe I find it too disgusting to stomach the possibility. Maybe I don't like being called out. Maybe he's flat wrong. Either way... I don't buy it. But, I wish he'd write more to help me figure out which it is.

Well, Vic, by far the worst thing is the tendency of some people, in particular the news media, to define "terrorism" by ethnicity and religion.

Not "certain members of such and such a religious or ethnic group have done this", but "[ethnic group] terrorism" or "[religious group] terrorism". I read up a little on Jewish history when I was younger, and that sounds so very, very familiar. (For what it's worth, I've also read up on Charlemagne's invasion of the Saxon confederation, and the modus operandi's exactly the same! Hang a dog as call him by a bad name.)

I much prefer to have people define terrorism by its actions:
"..activities that involve violent... ... that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State and... appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and ......"

Taken, via wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terr...
from "Chapter 113B of Part I of Title 18 of the United States Code".

Of course, the United States isn't at all serious about that particular definition, because that would define US military conduct in Iraq (Abu Ghraib) as terrorism; of course, Israel's habit of kidnapping Palestinians and imprisoning them without trial and torturing them, would also fall under that definition. You can't get more intimidating to a civilian population than to disappear them. Just ask your Argentinian and Chilean friends.

Which of course means that the US Feds are in serious violation of the law of the land of the United States of America. But that's not a big problem, as they'll find room for you in Gitmo, courtesy of the long-suffering US taxpayer, for having the temerity to criticise!

“Last time I looked, Tim, Israel had pulled out of Gaza and out of Lebanon."

...and even further into the West Bank. Not to mention the constant killing and imprisonment of Palestinians both from Gaza and the West Bank (remember the family that was killed on the beach not so long ago? Pulling out is no great comfort to the people of Gaza if you use your fighter jets and helicopters to kill from a distance.)

"News flash, since you weren’t paying attention: Syria and Iran armed Hizbullah and Hamas to the teeth"

...with arms first produced in the 1940s while the US arms Israel "to the teeth" with high-tech apache attack helicopters and F16s. Not to mention Israel's constant breaches of international law and its extremely irresponsible possession of nuclear weapons.

"What would you suggest Israel do, confronted with nations and factions whose stated goal is to erase their nation from the map?”

Lebanon wants to erase Israel from the map? Give me a break.

Calm down, wait for your blind range to diminish and read a well-documented and well-argued book on the subject.