I think it’s interesting that I met two of my favorite bloggers for the first time at BlogHer (both of whom are men, Guy Kawasaki and John Battelle).
But, that beside, what else did I learn?
Heather Champ, community manager of Flickr, did a great session on digitial photography, but she demonstrated how important it is to listen after the session is over. A group surrounded her and wanted to know more. She introduced us to filtrs, which is a very interesting concept I hadn’t considered before.
Let’s say you have a cell phone camera. And you want a black and white photo, but your cell phone camera doesn’t do that. Well, you email your photo to a different email address that takes your color photo, strips out the color, and then uploads that photo to Flickr.
The problem is only one guy (Aaron Straup Cope) I know of has some Filtrs of his own (he wrote them and runs them on his own servers for his own use). That makes Heather (and me) very jealous. You can see an example of one of his Filtrs in this photo he made of Flickr founder Stewart Butterfield.
Other things I learned from BlogHer?
That the stereotypes about women are true (they talk about things like mothering, cooking, sewing, and soft stuff like feelings, sex, relationships, along with broader things like books and movies far more often than I usually hear among the male dominated groups I usually find myself in after conferences). But, the fact that they are true gives women HUGE economic power and content power that the tech bloggers simply won’t touch.
Saturn did about as good a job of marketing to this group as I’ve seen a company do.
Seth Godin wrote that all marketers are liars. But Saturn taught me that you don’t need to lie, or even write a story. What a good marketer should do in today’s world is let people write THEIR OWN story about the product.
How did Saturn do that? They brought several prototypes, along with some cool ass convertibles. Then they said “here’s the keys” and stood back.
I watched as group after group came back with smiles on their faces and, more importantly, as tons of photos were snapped:
Not every company did it right, though. MSN Windows Live Spaces didn’t improve its position with this audience. I took careful note of what people are using here. My wife’s blog is the only one I saw that was done on MSN Spaces.
This brings me to another point. Companies that listen to audiences like this are hyper rare. They still look at audiences like this as a one-way conversation. Let’s just push our crap out to them, and get our messaging in front of them, but let’s not send any of our engineers or program managers to LISTEN.
If they were listening they would have heard just why almost no one here uses Spaces. And why Six Apart’s Vox product is doomed to fail (Mena, why did you give a product pitch when asked on stage “what do you think the future is going to look like?” That got you scorned by women at dinner afterward that I, and my wife, talked to). More on Vox soon.
My wife, even made one of Spaces’ most negative things (that you need to sign up for Passport to comment) into a positive (it keeps away most of the trolls).
But Spaces’ feature set demonstrates that they aren’t listening to this audience. Buying a sponsorship makes everyone feel good, but the story that the conference goers I talked to are writing is “that was nice, but use WordPress or TypePad cause they are better tools.”
Oh, and BlogHer attendees, they don’t listen to me either so welcome to the crowd. (I gave them a list of things that they should do, starting with “improve your HTML quality” and “get tagging” and they didn’t do any of those yet, which demonstrates a lack of listening on their behalf).
Other things I noticed: the men were quiet. For the most part. Some women complained about Marc Canter’s interruptions during one session. Christine Heron took that to mean that men weren’t heard from. Well, I came to listen, not to speak. The other men I talked to felt the same way. It was refreshing to work on listening skills again and learn something from a group of people I wouldn’t usually be with.
Why don’t I take notes anymore at conferences? Cause of people like Christine Heron. Wonderful reports. Technorati is brimming over with great reports from Blogher. Interesting how our conference attendance behavior has changed. Now the first question I hear isn’t “how do you get on wifi?” but is rather “what’s the conference tag?”
Or people like Lynne Johnson who wrote up the panel Maryam was on in exquisite detail. Amy Gahran is another great reporter that was there.
The BlogHer blog has a LOT more.
As to Vox, the idea is great (expand blogging to more “regular people”) but I’ve gotta wonder how successful it’ll be. Microsoft’s Bob taught the world that no one wants to be a beginner, or seen as one. I think it’s condescending, don’t you? If you’re going to get dragged to learn to ski, don’t you want to get off the beginning slopes and hang out with your friends on the intermediate and advanced slopes?
The world doesn’t want a ski resort that caters to beginners. Doesn’t work.
Same for blogging tools.
Mena shouldn’t have used her time on stage to appear visionary to pitch a product, especially to position it for those people who don’t have the technical chops to join Blogher.
Instead she should have laid out a real vision for blogging for 2010. How do we get half a billion people blogging? What will that look like? What will it look like when I can put my blog on top of a map? When you’ll read my blog on a portable device? How will video blogging change and/or improve? What will advertising systems look like in 2010?
Mena had an awesome opportunity to lay out that kind of future. Instead she did the thing Microsofties usually do: she pitched her product. What a disappointment.
What did you learn from BlogHer?
Well, I have to go. The women are Ponzi is calling and I’m still Maryam’s driver — we’re heading to Berkeley today with her. 
Being unable to spend time with delightful female bloggers, I merely posted today exactly along the lines of what you write about letting people write their own stories. I call it passive branding and Saturn were doing exactly that.
Being unable to spend time with delightful female bloggers, I merely posted today exactly along the lines of what you write about letting people write their own stories. I call it passive branding and Saturn were doing exactly that.
Which of those Saturns was a prototype, or did you just not take pictures of anything but the Sky?
Which of those Saturns was a prototype, or did you just not take pictures of anything but the Sky?
The world doesn’t want a ski resort that caters to beginners. Doesn’t work.
Oh really? What explains the runaway bestselling ‘For Dummies’ books then? And what explains the success of Northstar-at-Tahoe, Calif. and Sunday River (Bethel, Maine) or Buttermilk, Colo. and Solitude, Utah. Being that a good deal of ski’ers are casual, it helps to cater to them, not exclusive no, always have an upgrade path, but an entrance ticket is always good. Having lived in Utah, I disagree strongly, the world wants beginner but smart concepts, not childish Microsoft Bob things. Beginner yes, stupid no.
If they were listening they would have heard just why almost no one here uses Spaces.
They don’t need to listen. It’s been dead-obvious from the get-go. Uncool-Microsoftish-corporate snow-slush aimed at hyper-active 14 year olds on MSN IM, about as hip as Walmart’s MySpace copycat. Not throwing out Dares eyeballs’ish marketshare numbers anymore, eh?
Passive branding? Oh you buzzworded dopes. Freebieisms has been aparta marketing from the get-go. Giving extended product tours or giving away freebies, people feel obligated to say nice things. Which is why Consumer Reports is trusted, as they don’t play that game. It’s all just celebrity journalism, you are doing the marketing work for them. They just have to pitch it to bloggers in a buzzworded-up soup. I mean I would, throw in some scalable extendable transitional-reductional, optimizing-agility participational grassroots leveraged-flexibility, passionate viral-marketing stickiness, all enabling experiences…and bingo, we have a winner.
As for Mena blowing a speech or cussing someone out, and Marc being an interruptional-gadfly cashew-nut, I mean is the sky blue?
The world doesn’t want a ski resort that caters to beginners. Doesn’t work.
Oh really? What explains the runaway bestselling ‘For Dummies’ books then? And what explains the success of Northstar-at-Tahoe, Calif. and Sunday River (Bethel, Maine) or Buttermilk, Colo. and Solitude, Utah. Being that a good deal of ski’ers are casual, it helps to cater to them, not exclusive no, always have an upgrade path, but an entrance ticket is always good. Having lived in Utah, I disagree strongly, the world wants beginner but smart concepts, not childish Microsoft Bob things. Beginner yes, stupid no.
If they were listening they would have heard just why almost no one here uses Spaces.
They don’t need to listen. It’s been dead-obvious from the get-go. Uncool-Microsoftish-corporate snow-slush aimed at hyper-active 14 year olds on MSN IM, about as hip as Walmart’s MySpace copycat. Not throwing out Dares eyeballs’ish marketshare numbers anymore, eh?
Passive branding? Oh you buzzworded dopes. Freebieisms has been aparta marketing from the get-go. Giving extended product tours or giving away freebies, people feel obligated to say nice things. Which is why Consumer Reports is trusted, as they don’t play that game. It’s all just celebrity journalism, you are doing the marketing work for them. They just have to pitch it to bloggers in a buzzworded-up soup. I mean I would, throw in some scalable extendable transitional-reductional, optimizing-agility participational grassroots leveraged-flexibility, passionate viral-marketing stickiness, all enabling experiences…and bingo, we have a winner.
As for Mena blowing a speech or cussing someone out, and Marc being an interruptional-gadfly cashew-nut, I mean is the sky blue?
However, the passport issue on spaces keeps out just as many non-trolls as trolls. Assuming that people who aren’t trolls don’t have a problem with Spaces’ requirements is silly, and the entire passport thing reeks of “Yes, let’s see who logs in so we can use ever commenter in our next marketing push of ‘Look we have 290487502945878 people using Spaces!’”
Sorry, but I know quite a few people who don’t like the idea of being tracked like that because they chose to comment on a blog.
However, the passport issue on spaces keeps out just as many non-trolls as trolls. Assuming that people who aren’t trolls don’t have a problem with Spaces’ requirements is silly, and the entire passport thing reeks of “Yes, let’s see who logs in so we can use ever commenter in our next marketing push of ‘Look we have 290487502945878 people using Spaces!’”
Sorry, but I know quite a few people who don’t like the idea of being tracked like that because they chose to comment on a blog.
“Great reporter?” Awww, gee thanks Robert. Sorry we didn’t get a chance to chat, I meant to introduce myself. Maryam invited me to join your group for dinner, but I was pretty fried Saturday evening and went to bed early. Anyway, I’m sure we’ll be at the same conference at some point, so I look forward to having a chat with you then. Best of luck with your new gig and your move.
- Amy Gahran
“Great reporter?” Awww, gee thanks Robert. Sorry we didn’t get a chance to chat, I meant to introduce myself. Maryam invited me to join your group for dinner, but I was pretty fried Saturday evening and went to bed early. Anyway, I’m sure we’ll be at the same conference at some point, so I look forward to having a chat with you then. Best of luck with your new gig and your move.
- Amy Gahran
[...] When Stereotypes are fostered July 30th, 2006 I wrote a relatively positive piece on Blogher over at Just Shelley. I guess I’ll ise the Bb Gun to write the negative stuff. Or perhaps address some of the comments that bring out the bitch in me. There’s this from a twenty something who since she’s never experienced any problems in her life, women can’t possibly have any problems, period: I don’t know how else to put it, but I say that to encompass my almost zero interest in most women’s issues and female activism and empowerment. Now, I think women deserve to vote and can have careers and can do whatever they want to. However, I hate the male-bashing and whining about it being a male world that so often dominates feminist conversations (but, as a caveat, not all conversations). For example, one of the take away points from the session was to hire women or help other women get hired, etc. Are you kidding me?! Hiring someone because they’re a woman is just as bad as hiring someone because they are a man. There seems to be a little bit of a double standard going on there. There’s already a double standard. Do you know that all interview techniques at Google, Yahoo, and other major companies are primarily devised by male engineers between the ages of 25 and 45? Now, you tell me: who is going to do better with these techniques? A woman of any age? An older man or woman? Or a male engineer, between the ages of 25 and 45. Most likely from the same socioeconomic background as those who devised such tests. To assume that because bias isn’t blatant it doesn’t exist makes one naive at best; self-centered at worst. Am I being hard on this young woman? Damn straight. She’ll most likel only get reaffirmation from her own set as to the justice of her views. I’m suggesting, strongly, that she develop a bit of empathy. The quality of empathy is understanding that just because you’ve not experienced an event directly, doesn’t mean the event doesn’t happen. ValleyWag already touched on Dave Winer’s obsessive use of chick when referencing anything women were doing at Blogher. To give him credit, he did make a statement about empathy, and how being a man at Blogher must be how a woman feels at ETech. I noticed he hasn’t said one word on the second day, but to give him the benefit of the doubt: much of that could be because of the blatant marketing of the conference. Robert Scoble wrote: Other things I learned from BlogHer? That the stereotypes about women are true (they talk about things like mothering, cooking, sewing, and soft stuff like feelings, sex, relationships, along with broader things like books and movies far more often than I usually hear among the male dominated groups I usually find myself in after conferences). But, the fact that they are true gives women HUGE economic power and content power that the tech bloggers simply won’t touch. So that’s what women are good for other than sex, having babies, and taking care of the house. We buy things. I shouldn’t rise to such bait, but I suppose it would be too much for anyone to contemplate that Blogher attracted primarly women who do want to discuss such issues. That’s more or less how the conference was promoted. Would Scoble be surprised to hear both men and women talking about open source products at OSCON? Or new technology at ETech? Having said that, there is a part of me that wishes the Blogher folks would not stress so much that they’re representative of ALL women in weblogging–because they aren’t. Theirs is a commercial enterprise which, more and more, is catering to specific types of interest, as the conference was geared more toward certain types of topics and discussions. By stressing their all inclusiveness, rather than band us, they’re branding us. Media companies, though, have to have a focus audience. It’s no different than Linux Journal’s focus being directed toward men, and certain types of men at that. That doesn’t mean that Linux Journal will appeal to all men, the same as Blogher’s conference won’t appeal to all women. To draw inferences from the given sampling to the global all is an example of failed logic. Now, having said all of that: what’s wrong with the ladies (and gents) of Blogher discussing these things? They’re terrific discussion points, and obviously, for the most part, the people who attended enjoyed the topics. The world is full of infinite variety–including men who liked the discussions just as much as the women. In fact, much of the more positive commentary I’ve heard on Blogher has been from men, and not just about women as marketing target. [...]
Have you used Vox?
Have you used Vox?
Lazy bum! Glad you liked the posts. I have a couple more (including the great lunchtime talk with Meg Hourihan and Caterina Fake) that I’ll post today.
Vox seems pretty cool. Haven’t played around with it as much as I’d like yet. Dragging and dropping your flickr photos in 20 at a time though doesn’t really work for me. I’ve got over 6,000 photos on Flickr and I’d rather a way to get them all moved over to Vox. A tabblo type import feature would be a slick tool to add.
Lazy bum! Glad you liked the posts. I have a couple more (including the great lunchtime talk with Meg Hourihan and Caterina Fake) that I’ll post today.
Vox seems pretty cool. Haven’t played around with it as much as I’d like yet. Dragging and dropping your flickr photos in 20 at a time though doesn’t really work for me. I’ve got over 6,000 photos on Flickr and I’d rather a way to get them all moved over to Vox. A tabblo type import feature would be a slick tool to add.
Robert,
You lifted my Saturn photo! Is this something you learned at Microsoft?
Guy
Robert,
You lifted my Saturn photo! Is this something you learned at Microsoft?
Guy
[...] Scobleizer – Tech Geek Blogger: “And why Six Apart’s Vox product is doomed to fail (Mena, why did you give a product pitch when asked on stage ‘what do you think the future is going to look like?’ That got you scorned by women at dinner afterward that I, and my wife, talked to)” [...]
I am currently trying Vox, and frankly I quite like it. It’s not perfect, but for sharing absolutely useless information with my family, friends and the world, its a good platform. I doubt I would ever do any serious blogging with it (I am too much of a control freak), but for getting pictures up, journaling a vacation instead of sending my parents email every day, etc etc, its ideal. It’s early, but I do think there is a place for it.
I am currently trying Vox, and frankly I quite like it. It’s not perfect, but for sharing absolutely useless information with my family, friends and the world, its a good platform. I doubt I would ever do any serious blogging with it (I am too much of a control freak), but for getting pictures up, journaling a vacation instead of sending my parents email every day, etc etc, its ideal. It’s early, but I do think there is a place for it.
Count me among the Vox lovers. Also my friends, who work at Apple, Technorati, CNET, Mule Design, Yahoo, and myriad other companies.
Count me among the Vox lovers. Also my friends, who work at Apple, Technorati, CNET, Mule Design, Yahoo, and myriad other companies.
Christopher’s absolutely right about “ski resorts that cater to beginners”. The world needs those, and they often do better than their advanced counterparts.
Blogger caters to beginners. Myspace caters to beginners.
What we don’t need are products that cater to idiots, which explains Microsoft Bob. (The “for dummies” books are being ironic. They don’t cater to dummies either.)
Christopher’s absolutely right about “ski resorts that cater to beginners”. The world needs those, and they often do better than their advanced counterparts.
Blogger caters to beginners. Myspace caters to beginners.
What we don’t need are products that cater to idiots, which explains Microsoft Bob. (The “for dummies” books are being ironic. They don’t cater to dummies either.)
Roundup – a weekly post overview of different bits and bobs of information
Every once and while I find bits and bobs of information I feel is valuable but isn’t worthy a detailed post so every week I will try to do a roundup. As well from now on they will just contain a number e.g. Roundup #1, etc
So without further w…
Roundup – a weekly post overview of different bits and bobs of information
Every once and while I find bits and bobs of information I feel is valuable but isn’t worthy a detailed post so every week I will try to do a roundup. As well from now on they will just contain a number e.g. Roundup #1, etc
So without further w…
I think what I like most about Vox is the low barrier to transformation. It can be about marathon training this summer, and then about your favorite college football team in the fall. (Not that this example has *anything* to do with me, mind you.) Switching templates, post content sources, and heck, even the blog’s basic title/description is so easy, you don’t feel paralyzed by the “greatness of your original design.” I know you can make all of these changes with TypePad and Spaces, but something about Vox just seems much more flexible.
I think what I like most about Vox is the low barrier to transformation. It can be about marathon training this summer, and then about your favorite college football team in the fall. (Not that this example has *anything* to do with me, mind you.) Switching templates, post content sources, and heck, even the blog’s basic title/description is so easy, you don’t feel paralyzed by the “greatness of your original design.” I know you can make all of these changes with TypePad and Spaces, but something about Vox just seems much more flexible.
I thought Maryam was wonderful on the panel and that Lynne’s liveblogging is a very accurate account of the discussion. I thought it was a wonderfully overwhelming conference, maybe next time I’ll do more chatting… er, networking. I’m already looking forward to next year’s in Chicago.
I thought Maryam was wonderful on the panel and that Lynne’s liveblogging is a very accurate account of the discussion. I thought it was a wonderfully overwhelming conference, maybe next time I’ll do more chatting… er, networking. I’m already looking forward to next year’s in Chicago.
Robert,
Great, energized post. Thanks. Sounds like the perfect booster rocket for your new job. (Now to check Christine Herron’s)
As for beginners, I agree with you: the trick is to make their first few steps easy and rewarding without limiting them. Give beginners a good result quickly and show them a path to great results. Don’t isolate beginners at the Children’s Table.
Beginning skiers, skip the Bunny Slope at your peril. If you”re lucky enough to hear Larry Miller tell his Ski Trip Story, you’ll understand the perils of plunging–and I do mean plunging–right in. (Where’s that Long Tail when you need it. HBO has the program. They air it now and then. But can you buy it anywhere? Rent it? Steal it? No.)
Robert,
Great, energized post. Thanks. Sounds like the perfect booster rocket for your new job. (Now to check Christine Herron’s)
As for beginners, I agree with you: the trick is to make their first few steps easy and rewarding without limiting them. Give beginners a good result quickly and show them a path to great results. Don’t isolate beginners at the Children’s Table.
Beginning skiers, skip the Bunny Slope at your peril. If you”re lucky enough to hear Larry Miller tell his Ski Trip Story, you’ll understand the perils of plunging–and I do mean plunging–right in. (Where’s that Long Tail when you need it. HBO has the program. They air it now and then. But can you buy it anywhere? Rent it? Steal it? No.)
Spaces could have been so successful- as well as Yahoo’s 360 , and MySpace blogs -
but people apparently do not want to be locked into a Blog Identity as opposed to social networking
Apparently Bloggers want complete freedom and customization abilities – the INDEPENDANT SPIRIT of bloggers is say, different from those who join Social Network communites – or the early users of Geocities.
Spaces could have been so successful- as well as Yahoo’s 360 , and MySpace blogs -
but people apparently do not want to be locked into a Blog Identity as opposed to social networking
Apparently Bloggers want complete freedom and customization abilities – the INDEPENDANT SPIRIT of bloggers is say, different from those who join Social Network communites – or the early users of Geocities.
GM was a platinum level sponsor and brought a fully loaded Cadillac Escalade, a Saab 9-3, and a variety of Saturn Sky convertibles and (unreleased) Aura sedans. They had a Vue hybrid and a hydrogen prototype I don’t think was available to drive.
GM was a platinum level sponsor and brought a fully loaded Cadillac Escalade, a Saab 9-3, and a variety of Saturn Sky convertibles and (unreleased) Aura sedans. They had a Vue hybrid and a hydrogen prototype I don’t think was available to drive.
Geez, I’m tagging my posts as fast as I can! It’s only been 24 hours, y’know.
I must agree about the MenaGate affair. I use Typepad so I was quite interested to hear what she thinks the future is going to look like. To hear it only extends as far as this fall and is all about Vox…well, that’s just sad.
Signed,
Sheila (“So I take it you were some big mucky-muck at Microsoft?”) Livingston
Geez, I’m tagging my posts as fast as I can! It’s only been 24 hours, y’know.
I must agree about the MenaGate affair. I use Typepad so I was quite interested to hear what she thinks the future is going to look like. To hear it only extends as far as this fall and is all about Vox…well, that’s just sad.
Signed,
Sheila (“So I take it you were some big mucky-muck at Microsoft?”) Livingston
Hi Robert:
To be honest, I don’t care one way or another about the cars or marketing issues. For me, the great value of BlogHer was the intimacy, the diversity of viewpoints among women bloggers (who are often characterized as if we were all the same), the opportunity to meet terrific women (as well as guys like Robert, Dave Weiner, and Guy Kawasaki), the friendships made, and the overall good feeling that blogging is a good and worthwhile activity on so many levels.
Jan Kabili
http://www.tuaw.com
Hi Robert:
To be honest, I don’t care one way or another about the cars or marketing issues. For me, the great value of BlogHer was the intimacy, the diversity of viewpoints among women bloggers (who are often characterized as if we were all the same), the opportunity to meet terrific women (as well as guys like Robert, Dave Weiner, and Guy Kawasaki), the friendships made, and the overall good feeling that blogging is a good and worthwhile activity on so many levels.
Jan Kabili
http://www.tuaw.com
Interesting marketing prank with the cars.
Interesting marketing prank with the cars.
Businesses don’te want to cater to beginners? Where did you ever get that idea? Beginners don’t want to hang on the the intermediate slopes because they don’t want to look stupid. Nor do the intermediates or advanced want them hanging out because they don’t want to get hurt. Quite the ridiculous example you used.
Even in the tech world, beginners that hang out or use tools by the more advanced users generally get ridiculed or shouted down by those with more experience. I mean, you even saw that with Cody.
I think you are completely off base with your “beginner” theory.
Businesses don’te want to cater to beginners? Where did you ever get that idea? Beginners don’t want to hang on the the intermediate slopes because they don’t want to look stupid. Nor do the intermediates or advanced want them hanging out because they don’t want to get hurt. Quite the ridiculous example you used.
Even in the tech world, beginners that hang out or use tools by the more advanced users generally get ridiculed or shouted down by those with more experience. I mean, you even saw that with Cody.
I think you are completely off base with your “beginner” theory.
Wait, someone who runs a blogging business is aksed a question about where the future of blogging is going and they respond by talking about a product they have personally been working on for months? What the fuck do you expect?
On one hand, we want people to be passionate about their companies, products, and their customers, but on the other hand, we shush them at any mention of that company or its products. Why don’t we be a little smarter about it and try to figure out who’s truly being a shill and who really has ideas and is proud of the products and companies that those ideas represent. From what I heard, Mena talked about Vox in response to a *single question* in a *75 minute* panel. Doesn’t sound like shilling to me. Microsoft bought keynotes at conferences on your watch; where was our beloved unappointed WWW watchdog then?
Wait, someone who runs a blogging business is aksed a question about where the future of blogging is going and they respond by talking about a product they have personally been working on for months? What the fuck do you expect?
On one hand, we want people to be passionate about their companies, products, and their customers, but on the other hand, we shush them at any mention of that company or its products. Why don’t we be a little smarter about it and try to figure out who’s truly being a shill and who really has ideas and is proud of the products and companies that those ideas represent. From what I heard, Mena talked about Vox in response to a *single question* in a *75 minute* panel. Doesn’t sound like shilling to me. Microsoft bought keynotes at conferences on your watch; where was our beloved unappointed WWW watchdog then?
I gave them a list of things that they should do, starting with “improve your HTML quality” and “get tagging” and they didn’t do any of those yet, which demonstrates a lack of listening on their behalf.
I think you’re confusing listening and disagreeing here. It’s ok, you’re a guy.
I gave them a list of things that they should do, starting with “improve your HTML quality” and “get tagging” and they didn’t do any of those yet, which demonstrates a lack of listening on their behalf.
I think you’re confusing listening and disagreeing here. It’s ok, you’re a guy.