I just downloaded the updated GoogleTalk which just got a bunch of new features (I’m “Scobleizer” if you wanna drop in and say hi). A lot of Microsofties used to “poopoo” GoogleTalk saying “it has no features.” They were right. But, it also had something much more important: elegance and shipping.
It was a small thing. Microsofties don’t get small things. I think it’s a disease of Microsoft’s. Not getting small things. Until it’s too late. I usually don’t keep MSN or Skype up and running during the day. Why? I don’t know. Part of it is I get too many chats from people just asking “who are you?” or who say “hello” and then want to get into some stupid conversation. But another part of it is just the weight of those apps — MSN just popped up a bunch of dialogs that I had to close (more than 50 since I hadn’t been on for several weeks).
Funny enough Joe Beda, who now is on the Google Talk team admits that he had the disease when he worked at Microsoft on the Avalon, aka Windows Presentation Foundation, team.
GoogleTalk is the lightest weight, has an elegant UI, and, well, simply works.
What do you think?
Oh, I’m also on Skype as “RobertScoble” and on Windows Live Messenger as robertscoble@hotmail.com.
Dileepa: >What about the dev tools? What about the .net framework (I am talking only about the .net framework)?
Wonderful. Sparkle is great. Too bad it’s going to have a very hard time getting going. Why? Cause it doesn’t support cross-platform development. You did notice that Apple’s market share is going up up up up, right?
The problem is that Microsoft is resting on its laurels. Instead of turning on the Web gas, and figuring out how to ship OS’s faster and faster, they bet too much on proprietary and “boil the ocean” features and slipped, slipped, slipped.
So, employees leave and do Google Talk before their projects back at Microsoft even ship.
Doesn’t that piss you off?
Dileepa: >What about the dev tools? What about the .net framework (I am talking only about the .net framework)?
Wonderful. Sparkle is great. Too bad it’s going to have a very hard time getting going. Why? Cause it doesn’t support cross-platform development. You did notice that Apple’s market share is going up up up up, right?
The problem is that Microsoft is resting on its laurels. Instead of turning on the Web gas, and figuring out how to ship OS’s faster and faster, they bet too much on proprietary and “boil the ocean” features and slipped, slipped, slipped.
So, employees leave and do Google Talk before their projects back at Microsoft even ship.
Doesn’t that piss you off?
[...] Scoble posted about the simplicity of Google Talk and how Microsoft has a complexity problem. I have to agree and I dont think the plague is just Microsoft–other companies certainly make the products too complex and bloated. I have come to appreciate Apple so much in that regard. I can open a program and know where to click 99% of the time. If not, help is actually helpful. I also really appreciate the work of 37 Signals and their innovation. And their customers seem to love them as well. So I wonder…why the desire and craving to put more in? Is it our American attitude (supersize me!)? Is it the pride of the engineer? I dont claim to have an answer, but it is worth thinking on. As a developer, I love when an employee or customer tells me how I have made their life better. Thats what makes it worth it. As a user, I love the joy of just using my computer and not having to fiddle with it. At least I am fortunate enough to be able to solve and understand most problems…but what about the other 90% of users? [...]
Other innovations from Google besides search?? What about Google Maps and Google Earth?? (both huge successes and different from stuff that existed before in terms of usability…and a big WOW factor). Also gmail (which does have its share of problems, but has tons of innovative features), Google News…all not perfect products, but definitely innovative and had all the other big players play catch up…
Other innovations from Google besides search?? What about Google Maps and Google Earth?? (both huge successes and different from stuff that existed before in terms of usability…and a big WOW factor). Also gmail (which does have its share of problems, but has tons of innovative features), Google News…all not perfect products, but definitely innovative and had all the other big players play catch up…
gtalk is perfect as an extra feature for gmail (i.e. to send a chat instead of an email if a contact is online)
The problem with gtalk is that it is *too* lightweight for my regular chat purposes.
MSN messenger is definitely the app of choice for the university students I know and a good number keep it running 24/7.
gtalk is perfect as an extra feature for gmail (i.e. to send a chat instead of an email if a contact is online)
The problem with gtalk is that it is *too* lightweight for my regular chat purposes.
MSN messenger is definitely the app of choice for the university students I know and a good number keep it running 24/7.
Google Talk Catching Up – Too Late Already?
Now that Google Talk has put some more new and interesting features into its latest upgrade, is it a worth while VoIP and IM client as opposed to whatever else, i.e. Skype? It may well be, although for me not just yet. And here is why.
I agree with Karim. The key to great software is adding features without adding complexity. GTalk does exactly that; it just added a bunch of new features without adding complexity. It’s the sort of thing that Apple builds its reputation on and Google (usually) gets right to, at least most of the time.
I think Microsoft got it with Office 2007 (and Windows Live Writer, for that matter), but it’s usually something MS is way off the mark with. MSN/YIM/AIM turned me off years ago as these programs demanded more and more screen space and system resources, got ever more bloated interfaces, and incorporated more and more annoying pop up messages.
I agree with Karim. The key to great software is adding features without adding complexity. GTalk does exactly that; it just added a bunch of new features without adding complexity. It’s the sort of thing that Apple builds its reputation on and Google (usually) gets right to, at least most of the time.
I think Microsoft got it with Office 2007 (and Windows Live Writer, for that matter), but it’s usually something MS is way off the mark with. MSN/YIM/AIM turned me off years ago as these programs demanded more and more screen space and system resources, got ever more bloated interfaces, and incorporated more and more annoying pop up messages.
I think you are trashing MS for no reason. MSN is the king now, even not being first (and AOL refuse to interop).
Try giving Gtalk to your teen kid. What? no fun? no emoticons? Isn’t IM about the fun?
You adults only think about work.. sigh
I think you are trashing MS for no reason. MSN is the king now, even not being first (and AOL refuse to interop).
Try giving Gtalk to your teen kid. What? no fun? no emoticons? Isn’t IM about the fun?
You adults only think about work.. sigh
With added drag and drop image and file sharing GoogleTalk is easily the best client.
With added drag and drop image and file sharing GoogleTalk is easily the best client.
Its amazing the people who think Google came up with the innovation for Google Earth and don’t realise they got it by buying Keyhole Corp.
Its amazing the people who think Google came up with the innovation for Google Earth and don’t realise they got it by buying Keyhole Corp.
What ever happened to people using ICQ? I fired it up the other day and my old username was still working (even though I hadn’t signed in on it in about 6-7 years). That’s a basic enough IM client isn’t it?
What ever happened to people using ICQ? I fired it up the other day and my old username was still working (even though I hadn’t signed in on it in about 6-7 years). That’s a basic enough IM client isn’t it?
Dips: ICQ got killed by MSN. Why did I go to MSN? Because it had a far simpler UI.
Why am I using GoogleTalk more and more? It has a far simpler UI.
Watch the usage trends over the next few years.
Dips: ICQ got killed by MSN. Why did I go to MSN? Because it had a far simpler UI.
Why am I using GoogleTalk more and more? It has a far simpler UI.
Watch the usage trends over the next few years.
@Evariste: Google News innovation? Guess you never knew Deja.com before Google bought it.
@Evariste: Google News innovation? Guess you never knew Deja.com before Google bought it.
Scoble: Yes… Microsoft had made lots of mistakes with both the OS and their web services. Even SteveB admits to this! They’ll learn from it and come out better and stronger. How can anyone forget the 2MB Hotmail inboxes? It still is 2MB for a majority of people!!
I can’t understand why people can’t stand ‘proprietary’. Apple is proprietary. PDF is proprietary. Flash is proprietary. Proprietary doesn’t necessarily mean bad. Heck, even Google is proprietary. Ask Google to release it’s Linux custom kernel? Really… why isn’t anyone asking them to do it? Why not open source the Google Talk project? (because it uses the Jabber protocol and anyone can connect to it?) Why not port it to Linux – not a WINE hack like Picasa for Linux – a proper port. Google is making money off open source, but giving very little back (other than sponsoring projects with it’s self-interest in mind and hiring a few open source influentials – just to keep the community quiet).
And why crib only about only proprietary software? What about proprietary hardware. Can we ask Intel and AMD to open source their processor designs – may be the open source community can come up with better pipeling or branch prediction algorithms or whatever!
Employees leaving to join other companies is nothing new. The grass always looks ‘greener’ on the other side! Sometimes, it really is, sometimes it is not. That guy who left Microsoft and joined Google to create GTalk: his product is used by thousands of people, while Windows Live Messenger, a pretty new release, is used by millions. Why? Microsoft is not forcing anyone to use it.
And how long before we see GTalk bundled with Acrobat or Flash or whatever? Flash – a simple 800+ kB download suddenly is over 2 MB!
Evariste:
Google Maps: Good mapping solutions existed before Google Maps.
Google Earth: If I remember right, it’s some other company that did this and Google bought that company. (Yeah, Microsoft does this too… so does Yahoo, while Apple just copies!)
GMail: Hardly innovative. The UI is confusing. Message grouping doesn’t always work right. Better web mail clients exist! But, yeah – storage space – super innovative! Added bonus: POP support
Scoble: Yes… Microsoft had made lots of mistakes with both the OS and their web services. Even SteveB admits to this! They’ll learn from it and come out better and stronger. How can anyone forget the 2MB Hotmail inboxes? It still is 2MB for a majority of people!!
I can’t understand why people can’t stand ‘proprietary’. Apple is proprietary. PDF is proprietary. Flash is proprietary. Proprietary doesn’t necessarily mean bad. Heck, even Google is proprietary. Ask Google to release it’s Linux custom kernel? Really… why isn’t anyone asking them to do it? Why not open source the Google Talk project? (because it uses the Jabber protocol and anyone can connect to it?) Why not port it to Linux – not a WINE hack like Picasa for Linux – a proper port. Google is making money off open source, but giving very little back (other than sponsoring projects with it’s self-interest in mind and hiring a few open source influentials – just to keep the community quiet).
And why crib only about only proprietary software? What about proprietary hardware. Can we ask Intel and AMD to open source their processor designs – may be the open source community can come up with better pipeling or branch prediction algorithms or whatever!
Employees leaving to join other companies is nothing new. The grass always looks ‘greener’ on the other side! Sometimes, it really is, sometimes it is not. That guy who left Microsoft and joined Google to create GTalk: his product is used by thousands of people, while Windows Live Messenger, a pretty new release, is used by millions. Why? Microsoft is not forcing anyone to use it.
And how long before we see GTalk bundled with Acrobat or Flash or whatever? Flash – a simple 800+ kB download suddenly is over 2 MB!
Evariste:
Google Maps: Good mapping solutions existed before Google Maps.
Google Earth: If I remember right, it’s some other company that did this and Google bought that company. (Yeah, Microsoft does this too… so does Yahoo, while Apple just copies!)
GMail: Hardly innovative. The UI is confusing. Message grouping doesn’t always work right. Better web mail clients exist! But, yeah – storage space – super innovative! Added bonus: POP support
[...] According to Robert Scoble Google talk is good because it is small. To me it is good because it has good quality audio chat capability. When I need features like a Video Chat, I go to Windows Live Messenger. That is a lot better than Google talk. I don’t get calls from anyone that I do not know because they are not my contacts. Everyone else is blocked. If you are a famous person and your ID is public, you definitely will get requests from a lot of people who just want to have you in their contact list. Make your google talk id public and see if people will start bothering you. Well, I do not want to give him another pop-up, so, I will refrain from adding robertscoble@hotmail.com to my contact list in my Windows Live Messenger [...]
I was just looking at the Mem Usage of Win Live Messenger vs. Gtalk, MSN on my machine is running at 26,284k where as Gtalk is running at 16,572.
Maybe I just don’t know (which is a good possibility) but 10k isn’t really all that much more in my mind. Especially given the amount of features msn includes over Gtalk.
Firefox is currently running at 19,240k and look at all the features included in that.
For as little that Gtalk has to offer, it seems to me like it should be running at like 5-10k at the most.
Personally I don’t care for Gtalk simply because of the lack of features, I can’t even tell you how many times I use Video/audio chat in Msn, or remote desktop help, or share files or folders, etc. I simply can’t do a lot of that stuff with Gtalk.
I guess all the ads, or tabs, etc. in Msn don’t bother me, probably because I close the main msn or gtalk windows and it sits in my system tray until I need to contact someone, then I just select the person I need to talk to and then close the main window again and leave only the chat window open.
So the extra features don’t exactly get in my way or bother me, I really only see them when I need them.
And since everyone always like to talk about who copies who, blah blah blah, have you ever looked at the “Settings” window in GTalk and compared it to the Options window in MSN, looks pretty much the same, and I’m pretty sure MSN was around first.
Everything gets copied, all the time, computers all have monitors, cars all have steering wheels, bikes all have brakes, it happens, it’s how things evolve into better things.
I was just looking at the Mem Usage of Win Live Messenger vs. Gtalk, MSN on my machine is running at 26,284k where as Gtalk is running at 16,572.
Maybe I just don’t know (which is a good possibility) but 10k isn’t really all that much more in my mind. Especially given the amount of features msn includes over Gtalk.
Firefox is currently running at 19,240k and look at all the features included in that.
For as little that Gtalk has to offer, it seems to me like it should be running at like 5-10k at the most.
Personally I don’t care for Gtalk simply because of the lack of features, I can’t even tell you how many times I use Video/audio chat in Msn, or remote desktop help, or share files or folders, etc. I simply can’t do a lot of that stuff with Gtalk.
I guess all the ads, or tabs, etc. in Msn don’t bother me, probably because I close the main msn or gtalk windows and it sits in my system tray until I need to contact someone, then I just select the person I need to talk to and then close the main window again and leave only the chat window open.
So the extra features don’t exactly get in my way or bother me, I really only see them when I need them.
And since everyone always like to talk about who copies who, blah blah blah, have you ever looked at the “Settings” window in GTalk and compared it to the Options window in MSN, looks pretty much the same, and I’m pretty sure MSN was around first.
Everything gets copied, all the time, computers all have monitors, cars all have steering wheels, bikes all have brakes, it happens, it’s how things evolve into better things.
[...] Let me summarize my post for you anyway. Scoble’s Google Talk article can be found here and the Outlook Calendar one, here. For those of you who are new to this area, Scoble is a an ex-Microsoft Geek Blogger and now, simply a “Tech Geek Blogger”, after he left Microsoft earlier this year and joined a startup. His blog is probably one of the most read in the tech industry. Coming back to my comments on Google Talk, I think Scoble is right. Google Talk offers a couple of things that Microsoft and Y! don’t in their messaging clients, simplicity and elegance. For those of you who’re looking for a messaging client and nothing more, it’s a perfect solution but if, like me, you have most of your contacts on Y! or Windows Live (WL), you’re screwed. Our group recently had a discussion about why Google Talk was floundering in the US. There were a couple of valid points raised: [...]
[...] While reading THIS POST from esteemed Munge Brother Uncle Nick, I was reminded of THIS POST by Robert Scoble. [...]