The startup sound in Vista …
I’m on the phone with Steve Ball, group program manager for the Windows Audio Video Excellence team (basically, the team that builds the stuff that plays audio and video in Windows).
First, a disclaimer, before I left Microsoft, I got an intimate view of the process that Microsoft is going through in finding the startup sound (famous guitarist Robert Fripp was working on it).
The idea here (to both paraphrase Steve, and pass along the goals here that I learned) is that Windows Vista should present a common, and beautiful, face to the world. I could go more into it (I think what they are trying to do will be apparent in the shipping release, but isn’t quite there yet — even the new sound isn’t in current builds).
Anyway, let’s go into what Steve just told me on the record:
“The bottom line is that the rumors, stories, speculation about the new Windows Vista sound are true,” Ball said, ”but with a number of extreme qualifications.”
The current plan, he tells me, is that there will be a pre-wired sound that plays when the system is ready for you to logon. This is the plan of record for quite a few months.
You can do other things with your attention and your eyes during cold boot without feeling like you have to watch and wait.
This will be a non-customizeable sound, and that’s been part of the plan for Windows Vista for many months, he said.
However, the plan might change and Steve Ball is reading all the feedback, both on blogs, and in the newsgroups for beta testers, and his team is considering all of this stuff and still has not made final decisions (although they’ve spent a lot of time already arguing this stuff out and are heading down a path of making this a non-customizeable sound that can’t be turned off, just like the Xbox has today).
“Why the hell would you want to do this in the first place?” he told me is a common question. It boils down to two sides of the coin.
1. A spiritual side of the branding experience. A short, brief, positive confirmation that your machine is now concious and ready to react. You can turn on your Vista machine, go eat some cereal, while your machine is cold booting and then this gentle sound will come out telling you that you can log in. You won’t need to wait for your machine to startup, he says.
2. Volume control in a Windows machine is a wild west. A mess. The startup sound is designed to help you calibrate or fix something that got out of wack when you startup your machine. Let’s say you muted your machine, and you don’t hear your startup sound, you know you aren’t ready to listen to stuff. The Xbox has a hard-wired startup sound. There is one way to mute it: to turn down the speakers that are connected to your Xbox. Same will be true for Windows Vista.
It basically helps you realize your machine is ready to watch a video like, Ze Frank, without fidgeting with anything.
To add to that these sounds may be included in a bunch of the marketing that Microsoft is doing and will become very recognizable as “Windows Vista.”
QUESTION: Why don’t you give advanced users the ability to turn this off via a registry setting or something like that?
Steve: “we’re considering just that.”
“Did you know that Sony has a built in sound?” he said. ”Did you know that Toshiba has one?”
We went on to talk about the audio experience, how it’ll be a lot nicer than they were in XP and the emotional experience of how sounds will fit into the overall experience of using your computer.
A little bit about Steve. He’s an accomplished musician and cares, more than anyone I know at Microsoft, about how the community perceives Microsoft and its products.
++++++++++++++++
This part is MY opinion, not Steve’s:
My own editorial? I can see this from both sides. As an advanced user I want control of everything on my computer. It pisses me off when companies assume they know me better than I know me.
On the other hand, now that I’ve spent the time with Steve and heard the market research, legal advice (yes, lawyers are involved here — they love having trademarked pieces of media experiences that can’t be copied), experience and UI teams (have you sat through user testing? I have, and decisions like these are made because of feedback of normal, everyday users, not just geeks like me and you).
Translation: I’m withholding judgment until I see the final product. This isn’t an “evil” feature like SmartTags that demands an instant pull-out, but it isn’t nice not to listen to your most influential and experienced users either. So, it’ll be interesting to see how this one goes.
August 24th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Just give me a link next to the default sound (greyed out by default) that says, “Enable custom sounds - $10. Click here.”
Seriously though - I would find this pretty annoying on my Media Center PC - I disable all extraneous sounds on that machine - it’s startling to hear some of the Windows default sounds coming over my surround sound system - espacially if I had it cranked up when the system re-booted itself.
Steve, I appreciate your opinions on this - let me suggest you allow me to shut it off after I’ve heard it for 100 times, or three months - ot whatever other metric you want to use. But please, let me shut it off (or minimize the volume), even if you don’t let me change the default.
Thanks,
Rob
August 24th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
Some might say that’s what’s wrong with Microsoft: they need a months-long process for such a decision, involve lawyers, musicians, marketers and (worst) focus groups.
Now I’ll bring up the obvious counter-example: Apple decided early on to use such a sound (without the ability to turn it of), an engineer sat down and did some cool stuff to build something (there is an inside account of that somewhere on the net) and, even though it’s a minor detail, it has become an important part of the “brand experience”. I’m not even shure there was a plan to do it, maybe it was JUST that one engineer.
Would a consumer know what he wants? Probably not. If asked, I would think the idea alone would annoy me. Just imagine turning on your notebook in a crowded meeting or lecture would always play a sound, unless you plug in headphones.
Has it ever bothered me? No, since I never turn off my powerbook, sleep mode just works beautifully.
This isn’t supposed to be a Mac vs. Win rant - there is a lot of MS stuff I like (VS 2005 rocks). This is a focus-group and fat-company rant.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Yeah. No. I don’t like this.
If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it’s starting up a machine after a giant party only to blast the stupid start-up noise at 140 decibels for all of the house/campus to hear.
The only thing worse is being welcomed into a bright and sunny hangover by said start up sound.
Turning this noise off was one of the first things that I would do to a machine when it moved anywhere near me. (*Knock knock* I notice that your machine makes obnoxious noises that wake me up in the morning. Can I please show you how to turn them off? Thanks!!)
August 24th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
[...] Microsoft is considering hard-coding the startup sound for it’s next OS Platform, Microsoft Vista. Robert Scoble blogs about this here. [...]
August 24th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Uhh, is everyone forgetting that Macs have done this forever? *Before* it even boots the OS? This is especially interesting now if you use Boot Camp because it still plays the Mac sound before you boot into Windows.
Later,
Drew
August 24th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
I can turn off the sound on my Mac from a key on the keyboard, and it will boot silently.
This is important because sometimes, like when you are using the computer to control a stage show, have a sleeping baby in your lap, or on a darkened airplane, you need the thing to stay silent.
Any device that cannot be silenced will be tossed. I don’t care if you can customize it, but the volume control is MINE.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
I hate this idea. I’ve had one too many times where I’m in a crowded room/airplane and I turn on my computer and that logon sounds blares through the room because I forgot about the rock-fest I had the other night and had my speakers cranked. Now I’m thoroughly embarrassed in a crowd and I have no way to prevent it from happening again because Steve Ball is worried about “marketing spirituality” crap.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
the only possible reason not to give advanced users the ability to turn it off is willful ignorance of their wishes. Let it default to on or whatever to satisfy the marketing wizards, but let the people who want to kill it kill it. Not being able to do something like that is a blatant middle finger to a customer.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
My reaction to “The company knows best” isn’t just “No it doesn’t”; it’s “No it doesn’t because the company is stupid and evil and deserves to have grated kittens sprinkled over its Corn Flakes every morning for a million years and for Google to buy it out and sell it for scrap so there NYAAA!”
Or am I being emotional?
August 24th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
This is a typical case of product-focused vs. user-focused thinking.
Has it occured to anyone that a user might just wake up early morning and wants to turn on his/her computer without waking up sleeping family members?
For this very reason one of the first setup steps I always do on a new machine is to turn off the startup sign.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Might I refer to this joke video as a warning for why a “branding experience” can make you some enemies in your college library? http://youtube.com/watch?v=YOADbv1sgjA
August 24th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
So, my question is along the lines of Drew’s comment. Haven’t startup sounds been around forever, and on operating systems other than Windows?
Frankly, it seems to me like not a big deal in the big scheme of things. I like the startup sound Windows XP makes. If I don’t feel like hearing it, I turn the volume down. Seems like such a non issue to me.
So explain to me what I am missing, because I’m not seeing much of anything here.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
“The Xbox has a hard-wired startup sound. There is one way to mute it: to turn down the speakers that are connected to your Xbox. Same will be true for Windows Vista.”
If I want an Xbox, I’ll buy an Xbox. And the built-in speakers on my laptop can’t be turned down until after I have logged in.
I want a computer that let’s me control and configure everything! And to me a good user experience involves using an operating system that is stable and secure and let’s me do things the way I want to do them.
It really has nothing to do with how the system sounds or looks. In fact, I much prefer the way Windows XP looks to the way Windows Vista looks.
And I have a choice of two themes I like in XP: luna and energy.
Having said that, I really like some of the under-the-hood improvements in Vista. I just detest this whole User Experience thing! I don’t want a game box. I want a computer.
Well, that’s just me. I know there are a lot of younger people who think this kind of thing is cool. I don’t want to deprive them of their fun. I just want to be able to do my thing too.
Oh well. Not to worry. I’m sure I’ll have the skill to hack a dll to have it my way. Not that I don’t think the sound will be beautiful. Hell, I even liked Clippy in Office 2000 for about a month! Now Clippy is in the ground along with Microsoft BOB. I wonder why he didn’t come back in Office 2003?
August 24th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Just read this and you will get idea:
One of my clients are FM radio station network. We use different automation software (on top of Windows) to get commercials / music / effects to air.
Currently all PCs configured with “No sounds” Windows scheme - to make it sure it’s safe to reboot PC during air or click any buttons or anything else.
Your proposition to make it impossible to turn off sound will result everybody in city will hear it !!
So - results are predictable - the more features like this you will add - the less customers you will have as we need Windows to be predictable and do that WE want, not something that want Microsoft.
August 24th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
[...] As I talked about in my last post, there is a bit of publicity in the blogosphere around Vista and the idea of a forced startup sound. That post was triggered by a post of Robert Scoble’s Blog and he just posted an update where he talks with Steve Ball from Microsoft who is in charge of the audio for such things. I reccomend that you read this post before continuing on with my oppinions. [...]
August 24th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
I hate, yes that strong, sound without my permission. I have both my Mac and Dell laptop set to mute and only turn on the sound when I want to listen to audio or video I have chosen. Then again, I also keep my phone on silent…
If Windows Vista does not give me an opportunity to mute all sounds, I will pull the sound card… ;o)
August 24th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
seems like such a stupid thing to do. i still really dont see the big deal.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Genealogists do a lot of work in quiet places, libraries, record offices, etc. I need a quiet computer, I like a quiet keyboard. So fixed noise - bad idea. Is this a plan to get Linux on the desktop?
August 24th, 2006 at 5:10 pm
I think this is a necessity in regards to a corporate environment.
We have desktop HP machines that have internal speakers that if you do not have a headset in play the start up sound.
Now can you imagine 80 co-workers walking in at 8:30am and havnig all these PC’s play out loud that start up sound.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
It is pretty irrelevant how nice a guy Steve Ball is or whether or not lawyers are involved. Microsoft is still doing what Microsoft does best, telling their customers that Microsoft owns their computer and not them.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
>>One of my clients are FM radio station network.. Your proposition to make it impossible to turn off sound will result everybody in city will hear it !!
>>If I want an Xbox, I’ll buy an Xbox. And the built-in speakers on my laptop can’t be turned down until after I have logged in.
There’s these things… called headphones… you can get some at the dollar store and cut off the headphone part.
/just saying. It’s not the end of the world. Besides, if it comes from Fripp it’s going to be more like Tinkerbell blowing in your ear than the Apple Chinese gong.
I can’t make my Apple MBP *not* play the startup sound. I’ve tried. The buttons on the keyboard don’t do squat before the bios posts and the sound plays. Always makes for an interesting pile of looks in meetings and other places I’d rather it keep quite.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Count me as one more voting for a setting for this - even if it’s buried in the registry with no apparent switch, this *must* be made optional.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
I understand branding and wanting Vista to be noticed. does anyone there at MS understand CUSTOMER DESIRE with THEIR computer?
I like pictures of naked ladies - but I wouldn’t want MS to put them in the OS as a ’spiritual’ experience for everyone.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
Larry,
On a Mac, you need to set the volume to mute or 0 before you reboot. Make sure you have selected the internal speakers or it won’t work. On some Macs you can hold down the Mute key but it doesn’t seem to work on Intel Macs.
You can create a script that runs when you logout that will do this automatically for you. See the following:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20031005165919533
I find it very convenient that the output level for the volume is kept separate for different output devices so I can keep the internal speakers muted while using my USB speakers normally.
Hope this helps.
August 24th, 2006 at 5:55 pm
“Now can you imagine 80 co-workers walking in at 8:30am and havnig [sic] all these PC’s play out loud that start up sound. ”
Great representative example of the underlying issues. It isnt a case of telling customers what to do, it’s more a case of not knowing what customers do or how customers work.
If you’ve ever worked at MS, you’ll recognize the quoted example immediately. Thestartup sound is metaphorically part of drinking the kool-aid on a daily basis and part of the customer desensativation process. Almost all meetings start like what you describe - lots of windows startup sounds. Like writing emails during meetings, its just part of the MS process. Add in fast broadband, free latest software at work, almost free latest software for home, lack of any real connection between team spending and revenues, and the ability to get YOUR bugs fixed with a quick phone call. In short, you end up living in an abnormal topsy-turvy not-quite-like-the-customer world that becomes “normal” for you
The out-of-touch factor is also due in my view to the following issues:
- MS employees tend to join up right out of college…therefore they have never been enterprise customers, dealt with unique implentations of technology outside of an MS or academic environment, or had to manage IT functions. Things that are branded Windows are normal and almost not even noticed. Many don’t discover the real blocking issues with their own software until after they leave and actually have to implement it as a customer. There is little real understanding of the deployment process and its actual costs or any of the licensing issues.
- Since most have never really been customers, MS employees tend to channel their MS-centric environment onto their perceptions, desires, and behavior of customers. In their world, if startup sounds are routine in their environment, then they should be regarded as routine in everyone’s world. A good example would be that my team only tested against clean installs of english language XP and long ago ditched their test cases for dialup.
I still vividly remember the comments from my team after a 2002 customer visit by a particular windows team to one of MS largest customers. Only the visitors from Redmond had laptops in a meeting with their GM level execs. Ugg….no wonder our customers hate us.
So, in my view, it’s quite hard for them to think through all of the customer cases because in many cases their collective customer experience and environment is often not representative of the norm. Not to mention that on many teams, you’ll be crying a river when going against the herd and quietly “moved on” if you do it too often.
All part of the reason I left after a number of years…
Booger
August 24th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
I’m pretty sure this has already been said but:
What the hell is wrong with letting people turn off the sound? You can leave the default thing to whatever you want but just remember: you exist to serve customers. If your customers don’t give a shit about your ’song branding experience’ LET them turn it off. I know you are passionate about the ‘experience’ people have, but not everyone will love the song you play at start up, and many people have special situations where it would be troublesome for them to worry about the start up sound (ie. library)
As for the argument “they’ll just turn off their speakers if they don’t want to hear it”
1. Many laptop volumes are controlled thru software which means you have to wait for windows to boot up first.
2. This will mean I will have to turn off my speakers at launch and then turn them back up once i’m positive the sound has been played by windows (what a hassle).
3. Most people don’t want to worrry about turning of their speakers every time they start up their computers. They just want an option to disable it permanantly so they never have to worry about the problem again.
I’m positive the above post is written with horrible grammer and for that I apologize.
August 24th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
One more thing:
As for the volume control part of the argument, the advanced users (who would turn off the option for start up sounds) are smart enough to check their volume first before playing something. Maybe instead of that, you could have a visual alert in your taskbar telling you that your sound blaster is at full volume (ie. make the sound icon get “redder” as the volume is increased).
August 24th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
My computer is not a gaming machine, it is not an xbox, it is not something I want to have an “emotional experience” with. It is primarily a tool. Ever have to reboot in the middle of a conference? Can’t exactly use headphones there per someone’s suggestion. Does you machine wake from sleep or hiberation 100% of the time will no problems? Mine sure as heck doesn’t. Not in Windows XP and not in Vista either.
Ship with a default sound by all means but don’t force me to go use registry hacks, open up dlls and remove sounds embedded in them, not if you want to promote Vista as secure because I can guarantee those hacks will be out on the net quickly. There are at least three I know of to kill the start sound on a Mac. (Google is your friend.) I’ve got one of those too.
You know I actually sort of like Vista but I also need a system that can boot silently. Why remove the choice?
Like many customizations I suspect the majority may never bother but for those who need do need to shut the machine up it is critical. For what its worth I don’t have any boot sound from my Toshiba m200 tablet at boot. Maybe Toshiba consumer pcs do but this one does not.
August 24th, 2006 at 6:31 pm
I hope that if I turn sound off with the keyboard shortcut on my Acer Laptop that it means sound off. Not all sounds off apart from the startup sound. If my baby is nearby I want my laptop silent.
August 24th, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Geeesussssss…even I gave them the benefit of the doubt here, but gosh…are they THAT isolated from the real world? No off switch?
And Scoble, they aren’t paying you for PR, so don’t give them any, actually when you were them, they paid too little. Call it as you see it, not wishy washy “I see both sides”. Bull.
Everything on, also needs an off…
August 24th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
I hope they’d realize that there are certain environments where a hard-coded startup sound will be a total deal-breaker.
TV and theatrical production come to mind.
Should there ever be a need to reboot mid-show, it’s simply unacceptable to have a device that forces an audio output on boot. It’s that simple.
To not even allow a regkey that turns the startup sound off will cost Microsoft customers in live production environments — end of story.
August 24th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
Maybe EU Commissioner Neelie Kroes should weigh on this debate. This could be construed as a move against those companies selling Windows custom sounds. Anyone have her email?
I can see it now:
Windows Vista N (No Media Player)
Windows Vista S (No Startup Sound)
Windows Vista NS (No Media Player and No Startup Sound)
Maybe we should let those dudes in South Korea in on this too?
August 24th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
I am usually embarrassed when booting a laptop in a meeting, library, or airport and suffering through the XP noise, so I turn it off. It’s not branding; it’s the social impact of annoying others with the treasured and legally-copyrighted musical interlude that bothers me the most.
It’s hard enough to be a geek without reminding everyone within earshot that you are every time you turn the thing on. People don’t like perfume permeating their space; they certainly aren’t going to like an uncontrollable MS sound.
(See you in October!)
August 24th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
[...] Scobleizer has an article on the startup sound in Vista and how the user will not be able to turn it off. Yes…it’ll be a mandatory sound that you have no control over. I’m thinking someone, somewhere will hack this quickly and put out a patch. It’s an interesting read, as the M$ team is really putting a lot into the opening sound to begin with. Posted by Chris Filed in Microsoft [...]
August 24th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
Wow. I am completely flabbergasted at how disconnected Microsoft seems to be from what their users want and need in an operating system. This does not bode well for the rest of Vista.
Please, please, please, please let me turn the sound off. I am a musician and often have huge speakers and amps hooked to my computer’s audio output. I do NOT want to hear the amazing Windows Vista Robert Fripp startup sound at that volume, and neither does my sleeping wife in the next room.
For that matter, I think they need to spend some more time thinking about the branding. My XBox makes a noise when I turn it on, true. But I NEVER hear that noise because I restarted the XBox after a crash, or because it downloaded a weekly security update that required a reboot. In situations like that, the sound can easily become something users associate with annoyance, instability, and failure. If there’s any chance of Vista needing a reboot for security or stability reasons, they should reconsider.
Also, want to give me a good experience? Let me control it. Let me have NO SOUND if I want, or let me put my favorite sound that means something to me there.
People who use windows machines already spend way too much time feeling like they’re not in control. Don’t make it worse.
August 24th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
Believe me. If I could turn off all bootup sounds, I would. You know that I actually leave my PSP in standby mode so I don’t have to listen to the bootup sound THAT much? (and mute it the rest of the time so there isn’t a bootup sound).
Windows XP, it got old pretty fast. It’s neat when you first play with it but if you work with it and have to listen to it all day, every default sound gets shut down. Period. No ifs,ands,or buts about it. It’s like if someone took the opera Carmen and make it a boot-up sound. I love Carmen, but I’ll sooner tear out the speakers in my device before I listen to it over and over.
If you default an annoyance, that’s the company’s perogative. But if you can’t turn it off, then it becomes a serious hinderance to first adopters, let alone those that actually want to use the products for any length of time.
My two cents.
August 24th, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Learnt more from pressy sources…
Unf*****believeable…
And then they wonder ‘why does everyone hate us’? They will have to cave…
This sooooooooo reminds me of the X button in Pocket PC. 99.99999% of customers wanted X to be a real close-out X, but noooo Microsoft in their infernal supreme wisdom decided to “Smart Minimize” it…
As if they NEED bad Vista press now…
August 24th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
What will be the sound for the Blue Screen Of Death”?
I can do it for half the cost of Fripp!
give me a call, Mr. Ball.
brad
August 24th, 2006 at 8:21 pm
[...] Apparently, there is some news going around that the startup sound for Windows Vista will NOT be customizable or be able to be shut off. This really sucks. I absolutely detest the Windows XP startup sound and turning that off is usually one of the first things that I do when I’ve got a new machine. The primary reason I hate the sound is that it’s too long, the sound plays for, what feels like, about 4 seconds. If it were about .5 second to 1 second it wouldn’t be so bad. [...]
August 24th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
Am I the only one that finds these comments hilarious?:
“…that Windows Vista should provide a common, and BEAUTIFUL (caps mine) face to the world”
“… a spiritual side to the branding experience..”
“..turn on your machine, go eat some cereal while your machine is cold booting…” BWHAHHAHAHA! Well, at least they admit it takes a LOOOONG TIME for Windows to boot. I thought one of the goals of Vista was it was going to turn on as fast as your TV. I can’t eat a bowl of cereal waiting for my machine to turn on. But, I take more comfort day after day in my Mac decision. Hell, I barely have time to reach for my mouse after waking up my Mac from sleep mode.
“Go go eat some cereal while your machine is cold booting”…. Priceless!!!! Simply priceless!!!
I’m just wondering what major problem this “feature” solves. Was this really a huge support issue? Or is this another answer to a question no one is asking?
August 24th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
LayZ: well, that “cold cereal” comment had a bit of context around it. Even if something takes 15 seconds (like it does on Maryam’s Mac) I start it up and go do something else, then come back.
August 24th, 2006 at 9:20 pm
Design Flaw as Brand Experience
The first time I started our Xbox I couldn’t believe the incredibly noisy start-up sound that emanated from the TV speakers. Obviously, the design team never tried to catch a quick video game at 2 a.m., while everyone else is asleep. It’s designed to…
August 24th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
“The current plan, he tells me, is that there will be a pre-wired sound that plays when the system is ready for you to logon.”
… noboody mentioned it yet, but Ubuntu(Gnome) has this feature now. No drama, no flair, it’s just there.
August 24th, 2006 at 9:51 pm
Okay, this is like back in the 80’s when you had a VCR and didn’t know how to change the time or stop it from blinking… The simple solution: Duct Tape.
Yes, the Xbox has a startup sound. Yes, the PS2 has a startup sound. Those are consoles and consumers expect shiny graphics and cool sounds. (and yes in recent times they have fulfilled some of the roles of a dedicated pc)
But a PC is a multifaceted box that doesn’t always have the same role for each consumer. Just because I power it on at 7am doesn’t mean I am logging in for work, or 5pm I am getting ready to read my personal email. Each experience is different and all should be customizable.
Yes it’s cool to see the microwave scroll “Enjoy your dinner”, but if this “sound” is put into production without an on/off button, then it will be hacked before Vista even hits the market. Branding? Does Micro$oft really need to plug in another feature to brand themselves? I know who they are. Since like 85′ duh.
August 24th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
If Fripp’s sound is good enough, people will leave their speakers on and MS can have their ‘branding thing’, too.
Mr. Ball, if you are keen on the branding aspect, get the sound right, not trying to force a bad sound. Most people here are annoyed here because of the XP sound.
Maybe the XP sound was not so bad. But people might associate it with the time when they had to restart after some stupid software got installed or mcafee updated itself or after the blue screen of death.
Maybe its not just about the quality of the sound/music alone after all.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
I´m just thinking of our little boy, finally sleeping after hours (ok, minutes) of talking and doing nice to get it sleep. Now i turn on my vista machine and hear the startup sound hailing through the house. Waking up the kid again… just to make me not working with vista…
well…
August 24th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
15 seconds? Really? You can’t wait 15 seconds without something to do..?
August 24th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
First of all, most laptops don’t have a volume control that is disassociated from the OS volume control. My HP laptop has volume down, volume up, and mute; but they don’t work until the OS has loaded.
It is IMPORTANT that you can shut off your sound even if you don’t have a way to do that on physical speakers. Otherwise, you won’t be able to use your computer in libraries, around people who are sleeping, etc., if you forget to bring earbuds to mask the sound.
Also, if there is an unchangeable start up sound, it needs to be very short, like the mac ‘ding’ not some long protracted soudn like the current vista startup sound.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
“A spiritual side of the branding experience”
*puke*
August 24th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
btw, robert,
I think you’re mistake to think this is just an issue for experienced users who want to have full control of their machines.
Like me and many others here have pointed out there are real practical reasons for ordinary folk (as if experienced users aren’t ordinary or are by necessity out of touch with what it means to be ordinary). I hear less comments whining about wanting control, and more comments about sleeping babies and going to libraries.
Turning off your speaker is not always an option. And you should not be in major trouble if you forget to bring earbuds for your laptop.
August 24th, 2006 at 10:55 pm
I turned my cell phone’s start up sound off when I first got it, for some of the same reasons.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:47 pm
Is there anyone left who still remembers the “Keep the user in control” mantra?
And that Microsoft didn’t get where it stands through spiritual experiences and Audio Video Excellence teams?
This doesn’t affect experienced users only. The biggest gripe of non-experienced users: This thing doesn’t do what I want it to do.
August 24th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
The customer should have the choice, but I agree with the branding experience comment - companies do want control of their brand, and sounds a re a big part these days.
Jon
August 25th, 2006 at 12:14 am
[...] Earlier in the week there was a rumor claiming that the startup sound heard in Vista would not be customizable nor able to be disabled. Robert confirmed these reports today by speaking to Steve Ball, the program manager for the Windows Audio Video Excellence Team. [...]
August 25th, 2006 at 1:38 am
[...] What the heck will the startup sound be for Windows Vista? Who the heck will win a VMA? What the heck is a GEOS? Why the heck wouldnt I want a flaming lawn-mower? What the heck, trio of homemakers outsmarted rocket scientists? What the heck, no DirectX10 for XBOX 360? What the heck, digital music sales wont ease the pain til 2010? What the heck, an OS built for speed to work on old hardware? [...]
August 25th, 2006 at 3:16 am
And Microsoft still wonders why some users choose the customizibility of Linux.
August 25th, 2006 at 5:05 am
I’m glad to hear Microsoft is catching up to where Apple was in 1984 regarding startup sounds. Let me know when you get a separate folder for developer extensions.
May I suggest, by the way, a FAST startup sound? There’s a reason Apple’s always done a quick cord and that’s it. Lets you know the computer’s starting and the speakers are working, but doesn’t linger on, cause too much disruption if you’re ono the phone, etc. And make sure it’s not TOO loud.
(And by the way, I used to have to put my thumb over the speakers of my Duo - Powerbook Duo, not Core Duo - and discovered that muting an iBook shuts off the startup sound, too, which is handy for those library/late night/other quiet situations.)
August 25th, 2006 at 5:07 am
Oops. I just realized I skipped some posts where people said the same exact thing I did. Sorry!!!
August 25th, 2006 at 5:14 am
This is a horrible decision!
Anyone who doesn’t customize it will get the ‘branded’ sound, and anyone who wants to customize it should bloody well be able to.
And what about the vendors who want to give their own sound?
This is the sort of thing that makes people hate Microsoft - them telling you what you can and can’t do. Another reason for people to like Linux, yay.
August 25th, 2006 at 5:58 am
Larry,
FM radio station relay sound not to headphone - but to air !! This is the reason to use automation - playing sounds/effects from PC !
August 25th, 2006 at 6:04 am
Ok, why isn’t anyone looking at this comment:
“2. Volume control in a Windows machine is a wild west. A mess. The startup sound is designed to help you calibrate or fix something that got out of wack when you startup your machine.”
After how many YEARS, the volume control is such an unmanageable mess, that MSFT has to have a calibration sound at startup? My car steo has had the ability to limit volume at startup for years. Vista has been in development for years, how hard could it possibly be to fix system volume? Really, this should not be something a user has to interact with - a choice between volume control on the computer, or through manual controls on your speakers, but that’s it.
August 25th, 2006 at 6:20 am
you know, only Microsoft would decide that it’s better to force the startup sound and spend money on making it perfect for everyone, (an impossible task by definition), as opposed to, oh, i don’t no, making the volume control SIMPLE AND EASY TO USE.
Dear god…dude, don’t ever bitch aboout Apple and Mac Users being a cult. If this goober really believes that people use the *startup sound* to “… help you calibrate or fix something that got out of wack when you startup your machine.” Dude, it’s a VOLUME CONTROL, not a disk partition tool. Some friggin’ perspective?
The whole hallucintation this describes: ” A spiritual side of the branding experience. A short, brief, positive confirmation that your machine is now concious and ready to react. You can turn on your Vista machine, go eat some cereal, while your machine is cold booting and then this gentle sound will come out telling you that you can log in. You won’t need to wait for your machine to startup, he says.”
First of all, you’re STILL WAITING, there’s just an audible notificiation of it. Here’s an idea..perhaps, and I know i’m being silly here, but maybe, JUST MAYBE the friggin’ LOGIN SCREEN is a way to tell you that the machine is ready for you to, oh, i don’t know, LOG IN???
Microsoft needs to stop hiring hippies for PMs. If that sound really is unavoidable, Capt. Kumbaya just delayed the enterprise adoption by however long the update that fixes that stupid, brain-dead idiocy takes to be released. Morons.
August 25th, 2006 at 6:32 am
For God’s sake, let us modify the start up sound.
Each person is different and only the hard core amongst us will bother changing it. But it IS just a component and it SHOULD be modifiable.
Don’t screw up on something so simple Microsoft!
Hell, I didn’t even realize this was an issue…
August 25th, 2006 at 6:35 am
I’ve been in this discussion from the beginning. And that perspective lets me see the end.
Microsoft will not remove this sound. Period.
But it’s not just them. This is marketing!
Remember when a couple of cable stations put their logos on screen permanently? Now they all do it.
So pretty soon, *every* device capable of producing a sound will play the trademarked sound of it’s manufacturer when first turned on.
1. When you turn on your car radio you will have to listen to the “Toyota Sound.”
2. When you turn on your TV you will have to listen to the “RCA Sound.”
3. When you pick up your phone you will have to listen to the “AT&T Sound.” (No more dial tone.)
4. And every “blank” audio CD you buy will have a pre-recorded track at the beginning with the “Memorex Sound.”
5. Every electronic device bought from Wal*Mart will play the “Wal*Mart Sound,” followed by the manufacturer’s sound.
6. Soon even power tools will play the “Black and Decker” sound before they begin to work.
So people save your breath for Congress and the FTC. It does no good complaining to marketing!
(If Hitler were alive today, he’d be loving this technology.)
August 25th, 2006 at 6:55 am
“You can turn on your Vista machine, go eat some cereal, while your machine is cold booting and then this gentle sound will come out telling you that you can log in. You won’t need to wait for your machine to startup, he says.”
Pleasssse…
My six year old imac is up and running, ready to work before I can get out of my chair, I’ll eat my cerial whenever I feel like it, not when a PC tells me to go waste some time.
And yes, I can start up without any sound or with the sound at any level I like. My advice: buy any old used Apple computer you can get your hands on as long as it’s USB equipped and load OSX. Why do you think 6 year old Apples still sell for 500 bucks and people send 6 year old PCs to the dump? It’s because Apples are the far better machine.
August 25th, 2006 at 7:06 am
Can’t believe nobody’s posted the startup-sound prank video yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt1bgsvsWms
August 25th, 2006 at 7:17 am
>This isn’t an “evil” feature like SmartTags that demands an instant pull-out, but it isn’t nice not to listen to your most influential and experienced users either.
I assume you’re talking about underlined advertising link “SmartTags”, not the conventient little icons in MS Office that pop up when you paste in content, right?
This is the only other reference to SmartTags on your blog:
http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/2006/05/20/smarttags-make-return-on-blogs/
August 25th, 2006 at 7:26 am
The first thing I did on my Sony Vaio and my Powerbook was turn off the startup sound because both of those companies appear to have more sense than Microsoft in realizing that the user controls the machine - not the other way around.
August 25th, 2006 at 7:41 am
A promise to Mr. Ball or In case somebody is for a forced startup sound on vista …
you should go and read the comments on Scoble of Steve Ball about the coming forced vista startup sound. Go read the comments and if you are in favour for any of the features describe there, you should voice your opinion now. So far it looks hands down…
August 25th, 2006 at 8:52 am
Brad: right, those are the SmartTags I was talking about (the Internet ones). Unfortunately much of my writing about SmartTags was erased from the Internet when UserLand unplugged its Manila Sites server. Sigh.
August 25th, 2006 at 9:00 am
(If Hitler were alive today, he’d be loving this technology.)
Goodwin after only 64 comments! lol I love the internet.
Seriosuly though - I think the startup sound is a great branding idea. BUT I’m pretty sure anyone who is sufficiently advanced enough to find the place in the control panel to turn off the sound is pretty darn sure what OS they are using and isn’t likely to forget it anytime soon.
August 25th, 2006 at 10:32 am
Wow, some great comments here. As expected, some are extremely negative, some balanced, some scathing, and some surprising.
Never a dull moment in the Scoble mosh-pit.
To recap, here are three important facts:
1. What you are experiencing in Beta and CTP builds is not the final design.
2. A decision about adding a reg key to disable this sound is not final.
3. We are listening.
In addition:
- We have studied and understand the scenarios, including all of those I have seen and read here and in the beta newsgroups.
- Users do have the ability to mute and/or set the level of every sound that comes out of their PCs. There are multiple ways to do this.
- This sound also has (at least) two simple functional values:
1. when you boot your Windows Vista machine, you can use your eyes and attention for other things until the logon screen is ready. This (gentle, short) sound will tell you when the logon screen is ready — you don’t have wait and watch the animated status bar.
2. this sound will also gently tell you if your system (or device or receiver) setting is too loud, too quiet, or muted. If this sound plays at a comfortable level, you won’t have to later muck with a volume control when you actually would rather watch TV, listen to music, play a DVD or listen to a voicemail. Use this sound as a reference, and set your volume once to ‘comfortable’ (after cold-boot) and forget it. Done.
The xbox team designed their hard-wired cold-boot sound for these same reasons: level calibration and branding.
If the sound (or any sound generated from your PC) blasts you out of your chair, you can do something about it: turn down or mute your device volume control and/or speakers!
You can also easily sleep or hibernate your Windows Vista machines. Yes, this has sucked in the past – it is and will be much better in Windows Vista machines.
Of course, not every machine has HW volume controls that work in real-time during cold boot. But, many do. This is a known (and non-trivial) issue. And we plans to continue to clean up this mess over the next few years in subsequent releases.
However, in the grand scheme of what we’re working to deliver in Windows Vista, this is hardly the most critical issue in getting to RTM.
But we also realize it is *very* important to some users.
Finally, please remember that this conversation was paraphrased from a 20 minute phone call. For example, here is a clarification regarding the odd phrase: “A spiritual side of the branding experience.”
My actual answer to this question ““Why does anyone really need this sound in the first place?” was much longer, and more like this:
“Well, you can look at this question from a number of different views: there is a spiritual point of view, a branding point of view, and a purely practical point of view.”
I’ll address each of these over in the beta news groups for those who wish to go deeper.
Obviously, many have a deep passion about this issue, and we’re continuing to listen to your feedback and comments.
Thanks again (everyone) for taking time to weigh-in on this.
-Steve
August 25th, 2006 at 10:46 am
[...] However, under Windows Vista, the thinking seems to be that we’ll have to live with this annoying jungle at startup (short of hacking the file). So why does Microsoft think that we need this jingle at start up? Well, Robert Scoble discovered something interesting the other day when he talked to Steve Ball, Group Program Manager for the Windows Audio Video Excellence team: “Why the hell would you want to do this in the first place?” he told me is a common question. It boils down to two sides of the coin. [...]
August 25th, 2006 at 10:51 am
Steve Ball wrote:
>Of course, not every machine has HW volume controls that work in real-time during cold boot. But, many do. This is a known (and non-trivial) issue.
You criticize machines because they do not have HW to shut off sound. Yet you do the exact same error in SW. How ironic…
Microsoft is every day more Orwellian. Next thing will be forcing a wallpaper with a smiling photo of Bill Gates watching you.
August 25th, 2006 at 10:52 am
I have to say that this is a dumb decision and smacks or over analysis and design by committee.
1. Sounds most be able to be turned completely off in system to suite a silent startup environment, classroom, bedroom etc.
2. Branding? Fuck that, it’s MY computer,a nd should be able to make it play any dam noise I want at whatever point it’s firing. Who the fuck is MS to tell me what sound my computer needs to be making, it’s none of their dam business past providing a default. Because other companies don’t respect their uses control it’s ok for MS to do it too?
3. Please.Not broken DON’T fix it.
August 25th, 2006 at 11:14 am
FYI, some useful comments from Joe Wilcox:
http://www.microsoftmonitor.com/archives/016933.html
“Assuming Microsoft execs are thinking like marketers, the startup sound should be more than just part of the operating system. It should be part of the marketing of the operating system. If Microsoft takes that approach, I would recommend keeping the sound permanently turned on and unchangeable without customization, at least in the early days.”
This is exactly the thinking behind this decision from the Marketing team. Thanks for good observations, Joe.
* * *
August 25th, 2006 at 11:46 am
[...] Want to know why? Read Robert Scobles’ blog here [...]
August 25th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
We definitely need a way for the volume control and or turning it off. What if my wife is sleeping when i turn on my laptop and i just want to silently bootup..PLEASE provide a means to turn it off…i don’t care if it can be customized or not..
August 25th, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Steve, Joe also says:
“While some people may gripe the sound cannot be turned off, I should point out that Mac owners have listened to a distinctive startup sound for years.”
Apple has almost no market share on the Corporate Desktop. I wonder if there is a connection…
Microsoft used to offer three types of operating systems marketed and developed by separate groups: (1) Servers for the enterprise backroom, (2) Business Desktops Like Windows NT and Windows 2000 for serious users, and (3) Toys like Windows 9x for home users.
Beginning with Windows XP, the code base for the existing Toys was retired and merged with the Business Desktop code base. Windows XP Professional is not really a Toy as its developers allowed the users and their IT departments the ability to customize it for their needs. Windows XP Home was better than 9x but I still classify it as a Toy OS.
When Vista is released, Microsoft will offer two types of operating systems: servers and Toys. Vista was designed from the ground-up to appeal to home users, gamers, and multimedia enthuiasts. Business and other serious users were an afterthought.
It’s not just this startup sound. It’s the whole User Experience Bullshit. Form over function was never the Windows way until now.
Steve, how many members of your team have spent time working in a corporate IT department?
August 25th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Microsoft Rant of the Day….
While putting in a dozen miles on the stationary bike, I was reading my blogs on my LG CU500, and found Robert Scoble’s post on the startup sound in Microsoft Vista. Apparently the plan for Vista is to have a mandatory, unchanging startup sound …
August 25th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
startup sounds blow
August 25th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Never tell your customers that they are being ‘used’ (or marketed to). I will know if they teach this in marketing school if I do an MBA one day :)
August 25th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
The comments referring to switching notebooks on in conference rooms, libraries etc. wins it for me.
Thanks to my aprpeciation for 70s cartoon character “Hong Kong Phooey” (PS. No.1 super guy) I have had the pleasure of annoying a deathly quiet office of Financial IT guys mid-morning by firing up the laptop and forgetting I’ve got a startup sound in homage to Phooey’s powers of Kung-Fu on a particular profile.
I think it’s best we’re able to disable these sounds for those of us that still use windows in a business environment.
August 25th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Oh now I get it. They want everyone to buy the more expensive version. As it “pay more and you might be able to have a patched version without sound”.
Steve thanks for the though of me needing a signal when my computer is ready to finally do what I want. If you put down your ideas down for a second - could you please come and take a look at how normal people work?
They turn on the PC and go do something else because it takes AGES to load it. Even Coming out of hybernation is endless. I don’t need that 15 sec is over sound, because I will give my computer the longer time to boot up and do something productive in the meantime like fetching coffee. And no start up sound will change that.
Adjusting the speakers? Hello? How dumb am I suppose to be?
People put glue on the caps lock key to finally turn it off. I had a patch for NT which would just kill the key, make it do nothing. It was on the systemlevel. It is one of the most annoying things on any keyboard I encounter.
[If anyone has a reg patch working for an IBM tablet PLEASE tell me about it, and if you would have one which also makes the function key a working windows key instead of it just leaving it out I might consider loving you. Well, Marcipan perhaps].
Is it branding? Of course it is! Is it working? Of course it is! It will show you at once the one person in the room who is not in charge of their computer. It says a lot about the skills of a person if they have a laptop and still have it on.
Will it be working and recognizeable? Of course it will be. But tell me: Why are you so desperate to make it unchangeable instead of making it so compelling that everybody will tell people like me “don’t you dare touch that, I love that!”.
Well, I guess you have to stick with ‘don’t let them touch it’ …
Nicole
August 25th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
As a Microsoft consultant AND musician I blogged about those four silly notes — along with the sheet music to play along at home! (^_^)
August 25th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
“The xbox team designed their hard-wired cold-boot sound for these same reasons: level calibration and branding.”
I might be wrong, but I’m guessing the xbox team didn’t design the xbox to be used in libraries, or university lecture theatres populated by crotchety professors (bing! bing! BING! bing! bing! “Laptops are now banned from all of my lectures!”), and so on.
Criminy. It’s a no brainer. Let people turn the sound off. With UI. Don’t force people to use regedit again, for God’s sake. Do people at MS think that users love the regedit UI or something? Let me make this clear: if you make something only available via a registry key, then *most* users will *never* be able to use it. If the Vista guys haven’t figured this out yet then…oh dear.
I get fed up of not having simple controls for stuff like this. One of my wishes for laptops/pdas is the following: two small slide switches (i.e. physical switches) on the side - one controls RF emissions, the other controls the speakers. If I slide them both to off, then my device broadcasts *NO* sound or RF. Ever. I don’t care if you think I’ll want to hear the alarm sounds for an appointment. I’ve turned it off. I’m the user. I’m in charge.
But if manufacturers use a similar brain-dead and downright annoying attitude that MS are showing here, I don’t think I’ll ever see such a device.
August 25th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
Ooops I forgot the link to the music!
http://bhandler.spaces.live.com/blog/cns%2170F64BC910C9F7F3%21688.entry
August 25th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Hei Blake, a Spaces blog with content, cool ;)
I forgot in both my article and my posts here: I would be just a little bis less annoyed by it if it would be piano. I would probably still be sick of it after awhile - even with the piano.
There are so many posible ways to make this a cool and good experience - hell you have to update the pcs anyhow in regular times (or does anyone REALLY really believe we will not have updates anymore) and make it fun. Interesting. For everyone. Compelling you see?
This is like forcing somebody to feel like a child again (and boy do we all love this). *sigh*
August 25th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
hadi up at comment #28 mentioned: “a visual alert in your taskbar telling you that your sound blaster is at full volume (ie. make the sound icon get “redder” as the volume is increased).” This is a good idea, perhaps as a graphic or control that displays on the startup screens and remains until dismissed by logging in. As many other posters have pointed out, having a silent indicator of sound levels is important.
Other thoughts:
If I wanted a level calibration sound for my computer in a professional audio/home theater environment, I would want to customize it. A pure tone of A440 at a certain volume at startup would be pretty handy - in certain circumstances.
Other users have pointed out a vast number of scenarios where inattentiveness on the part of the user before shutting off the computer leads to being punished by the startup sound. Why would you want to punish your users for a trivial error? Particularly when it isn’t an _error_.
If I want a calibration tone before starting a music-producing application, give me an option for that in the UI. Perhaps each time Media Player starts, in the center of the blank viewing area, you could place a button that says “Play sound test?” This would be helpful, and would require no further user intervention if they wanted to ignore it. Or perhaps a control panel setting that lets you choose what sound level to automatically return your computer to at startup.
I am not convinced that an OS should be a music producing application, but some people do require or enjoy audio feedback.
Mr. Ball, I do not understand why your preferences are more important than mine in this matter.
Good day to you sir.
-r.
August 25th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
only advanced users or people that need silence for any number of reasons are going to out of their way to turn it off, Steve. Why not give them that option? They’re going to be using vista no matter what. Why flagrantly disregard what they want? It’s just silly to say “we don’t care what you want, we’re going to do it like we think you should have it.”
August 25th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
They are not saying that. They are saying “but it is such a good idea to make a unique branding for MS!”
And hey, if the sound really cannot be turned off without screwing up the system I amsure there is no problem in programming something which will hook in for shutdown and turn off the speakers by default.
But as said before: Instead of making something compelling and remarkeable which nobody *wants* to turn off they are setting the mark at “you cannot do it”.
And those xbox comparisons are stupid because we don’t run around in daily life with them. Oh and I am sure there will be a version available for companies with this stuff turned off … Anyone taking a bet for that?
So while there is praise from the marketing side about this clever move guess why they have the word ‘marketing’ in their name. They are not the ones using it afterwards …
August 25th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
If I can’t silence Vista, I won’t buy any machine that has it. I use my computers in hotel rooms, four feet away from a sleeping woman, four hours before she’s ready to wake. Dumb idea. End of discussion.
August 25th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Never a dull moment in the Scoble mosh-pit.
Funny how it’s called that when a stupid idea gets bitch-slapped.
- Users do have the ability to mute and/or set the level of every sound that comes out of their PCs. There are multiple ways to do this.
Then explain this comment: “The Xbox has a hard-wired startup sound. There is one way to mute it: to turn down the speakers that are connected to your Xbox. Same will be true for Windows Vista.” That’s either right or not, and since it’s your quote… Note that having to use external speakers, or cut off headphone jacks is not being able to mute it. Especially on a laptop, where neither of those options are anything but teh suck.
1. when you boot your Windows Vista machine, you can use your eyes and attention for other things until the logon screen is ready. This (gentle, short) sound will tell you when the logon screen is ready — you don’t have wait and watch the animated status bar.
You keep saying “gentle” but I don’t think it ends up being that when it’s multiplied by 300 in a cube farm. Then it’s maddening. As well, guess what? Many of us don’t sit there slack jawed staring at XP’s progress bar. We do other things, and we’re able to, without Microsoft telling us, remember to check to see if the computer’s at the login prompt or not. Wow. People actually doing stuff without the official Microsoft sound or some damned wizard. ASTOUNDING WATSON!
2. this sound will also gently tell you if your system (or device or receiver) setting is too loud, too quiet, or muted. If this sound plays at a comfortable level, you won’t have to later muck with a volume control when you actually would rather watch TV, listen to music, play a DVD or listen to a voicemail. Use this sound as a reference, and set your volume once to ‘comfortable’ (after cold-boot) and forget it. Done.
Oh please. Because mucking with a volume control is just too hard for normal people? Dude, if Microsoft can’t design a damned volume control, why the HELL should I believe they can do an OS worth a crap? Here’s one…people don’t listen to everything at the same volume. DVDs have different sound levels, so does music. TV can change from show to show. In an office, you want the sound OFF unless you specifically turn it on.
Does it ever occur to Microsoft to laugh test this kind of stupidity? Because I don’t think it does. You’d have to be completely dim or detached from reality, or think that user focus groups are the end all and be all of everything.
The xbox team designed their hard-wired cold-boot sound for these same reasons: level calibration and branding.
Remove that total BS first reason, and you have all the reason you need…Branding. There’s no practical justification alive that a freshman in college couldn’t shoot holes through. Level adjustment? Really? Does the Xbox 360 provide all the EQ information and the sound specs on that sound? What’s the level on it. Is that displayed on screen? Are you able to loop it continuously until you have your levels set, then continue on?
Somehow, I think the answer here is “no” which makes the level thing total crapola.
If the sound (or any sound generated from your PC) blasts you out of your chair, you can do something about it: turn down or mute your device volume control and/or speakers!
And if you have a laptop with no external speakers, there’s no point. Vista just overrides your settings. Yay! Thank you Unca SteveB, you sure as hell knew I wanted to wake up everyone on the damned plane. Thank god for your bald sweaty wisdom, shining like a humid, stinky light upon our ignorant silence.
Of course, not every machine has HW volume controls that work in real-time during cold boot. But, many do. This is a known (and non-trivial) issue. And we plans to continue to clean up this mess over the next few years in subsequent releases
YEARS? Laptop users have to put up with this ignorance for YEARS? ARE YOU LUCID? May you be banished to a cube farm and have to listen to this “gentle sound” ten times a day for the rest of your life.
However, in the grand scheme of what we’re working to deliver in Windows Vista, this is hardly the most critical issue in getting to RTM.
Translation: Sucks to be you, you stupid portable users. Again, if you can’t even get a startup sound to not suck, why should I believe you can carry through on the HARD stuff?
But we also realize it is *very* important to some users.
Like most of the corporate ones. I guess corporate doesn’t count in the blessed halls of the startup sound team.
Obviously, many have a deep passion about this issue, and we’re continuing to listen to your feedback and comments.
“We’re studiously roundfiling all of them, because if you think you’re going to make us limit our branding, you’re smoking dope. We’re the Microsoft WIndows team, what, you think your concerns matter to us? We have a stock price to pump up!”
If this is what Microsoft calls attention to detail and listening to customers, Vista is going to so TOTALLY suck.
August 25th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
“Assuming Microsoft execs are thinking like marketers, the startup sound should be more than just part of the operating system. It should be part of the marketing of the operating system. If Microsoft takes that approach, I would recommend keeping the sound permanently turned on and unchangeable without customization, at least in the early days.”
This is exactly the thinking behind this decision from the Marketing team. Thanks for good observations, Joe.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard, and I was in the Military. I’ve seen grade - A career stupid, and you just beat them all. But thanks for admitting that customer needs, and “it’s a leveling help” comments have nothing to do with it, and the ONLY consideration here was giving VIsta marketing a hard-on.
August 25th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Oh, and while folks are comparing the Vista “ready to login” sound to the Mac OS Startup Sound, understand that the Mac OS startup sound isn’t just a “Oh look, you can log in now” marketing bit. It actually has a diagnostic use, and always has had. Proper tone means that your CPU and Power Supply and other very low - level basic hardware functionality is there. When things go really wrong low down, you get other sounds like breaking glass, or (long ago) a very ugly atonal set of notes instead of a chord.
And, on current Apple hardware, setting the volume to mute kills that sound on desktops and laptops both, no “external devices” needed.
August 25th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
[...] According to Microsoft insider Robert Scoble, users will not be able to change or mute the startup sound in Windows Vista. [...]
August 25th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
One more time.. John C. Welch for President.
On another note, does anyone have the odds on the number of execs whose heads will roll after Vista evenutally ships? I’d like to get in on some of that action.
August 25th, 2006 at 5:30 pm
[...] Vista will have a startup sound. You will not be able to turn it off. Microsoft has apparently given this deep thought and has paternalistically determined you will listen to their startup sound when you boot Vista - even if you don’t want it or are in an environment, like a seminar, where Vista announcing itself would be annoying to everyone else. [...]
August 25th, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Drum Roll: Da
August 25th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Dum.
Sorry, I just wanted to be comment #100.
My prediction: Vista will ship with this sound.
Only Volume Licenses (Corporate America) will recieve the patch.
August 26th, 2006 at 1:01 am
This is utterly insane, who’s computer is it anyway ?
They have already decided you’ll have to buy a 64-bit system if you want to play HD-DVD or Blueray at full resolution, now they want to enforce startup sounds..
What next ? Enforced Microsoft adverts when you login ? :-)
August 26th, 2006 at 1:09 am
[...] The startup sound in Vista … [...]
August 26th, 2006 at 5:08 am
This is just lame - off course you should be able to shut off that sound.
I am currently deploying a system where we are using a lot Windows XP Professional machines to display media in airports and other public places. For various reasons (memory consumption reasons being among the most important) the machines are currently set to reboot every night at 3am.
After the first week of deployment the security personel begged us to turn of the welcome sound so that the night-watch wouldn’t be scared shitless every time the machines rebooted.
Windows machines are used in a lot of different environments - and are turned on in many different contexts. Think again.
.Jesper
August 26th, 2006 at 7:16 am
Well what a stupid, stupid concept!
They really are taking their customers for absolute suckers!!!
Another reason not use Micro$oft crap software!
August 26th, 2006 at 7:40 am
[...] Microsoft may not give me the option to disable the startup sound in Windows Vista though. Why would they do such a thing? Robert Scoble had the pleasure of talking with Steve Ball, program manager for the Windows Audio Video Excellence team, who gave a reason for this decision: A short, brief, positive confirmation that your machine is now conscious and ready to react. You can turn on your Vista machine, go eat some cereal, while your machine is cold booting and then this gentle sound will come out telling you that you can log in. [...]
August 26th, 2006 at 10:53 am
Professional audio engineers will switch off those custom sounds because they are all sampled at 22 kHz and will completely reset your professional soundcard after booting.
I also felt that the XP-mixer is really bad, any professional soundcard comes with a better mixer which makes the XP-mixer not only redundant but also not working! XP’s mixer can’t control any of the professional devices I am using or have been using.
Vista might be cool but I don’t want to upgrade anymore. Driver model has been changed again! Why?
Give me native ASIO instead of WDM… I don’t want another ‘consumer’ driver-model…
August 26th, 2006 at 11:12 am
You are doing this to create an emotional experience?? Too bad for you the emotional experience it will create in me is hatred.
August 26th, 2006 at 1:47 pm
Realizing that all of my comments here have been negative, I want all of you to know that now my sentiments are positive.
I’ve been in touch with Steve Ball on another blog. And although he made me no promises, I am convinced that, as he said, Microsoft “will do the right thing.”
August 26th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
[...] Robert Scoble has written an article in the wake of initial negative feedback on Vista’s having a non-disableable sound that plays on startup. One of the reasons given: Volume control in a Windows machine is a wild west. A mess. The startup sound is designed to help you calibrate or fix something that got out of wack when you startup your machine. Let’s say you muted your machine, and you don’t hear your startup sound, you know you aren’t ready to listen to stuff. The Xbox has a hard-wired startup sound. There is one way to mute it: to turn down the speakers that are connected to your Xbox. Same will be true for Windows Vista. [...]
August 26th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
[...] As I talked about in my last post, there is a bit of publicity in the blogosphere around Vista and the idea of a forced startup sound. That post was triggered by a post of Robert Scoble’s Blog and he just posted an update where he talks with Steve Ball from Microsoft who is in charge of the audio for such things. I recommend that you read this post before continuing on with my oppinions. [...]
August 26th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
[...] Microsoft gatavojas, vai vismaz tiem ir padomā, padarīt skaņu, kas signalizē par datora gatavību darbam, neizbēgamu. Ar vārdu neizbēgamu, šeit tiek domāts tas, ka to nebūs iespējams atslēgt un tā skanēs vienmēr, un vienīgais veids, kā to neklausīties, būs izslēgt skandas. Un nebūs arī iespējams nomainīt. [...]
August 27th, 2006 at 12:09 am
[...] While those issues with IE7 aren’t good, what I think is worse is Microsoft’s idea for Windows Vista and the startup sound, and current plans for that sound to be an unchangeable feature in the new OS. In other words, you can’t disable it nor, apparently, change it. [...]
August 27th, 2006 at 4:14 am
I wish I could say I was surprised by all this. But it’s hardly the first time Microsoft has expressed nothing but contempt for its customers. What arrogance!
August 27th, 2006 at 8:02 am
Some machines (like laptops) have no hardware way of muting or turning the volume down (just [software] multimedia keys, mere shortcuts to the OS volume control). So, it’s not just a matter of how much control the user wants, or how much control is intended to be given to the user — but how much control is really being allowed to the user.
In this (I confess, extreme) scenario, the user is allowed absolute zero control.
May Microsoft hide the possibility to turn the sound off under 42 layers of menus and control panel options — but it *has* to be there.
August 27th, 2006 at 9:06 am
“Did you know that Sony has a built in sound?” he said. ”Did you know that Toshiba has one?”
Is that a good reason to do it? Because Sony and Toshiba did? Even if they build it in with no options to turn it off (I think that will piss off a lot of office managers) some one will find a hack to do it. But MS best listen to the IT community here not just home users, unless its not in the “Pro” version most companies will use.
August 27th, 2006 at 1:44 pm
Oh, really. So when I turn on my laptop, 50 people in a library will expirience spiritual state of mind. Or not! Ill be happy if I escape alive.
August 27th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
Here’s the answer.
The FIRST time Windows opens on a new machine it should play the Fripp sound.
After that, it should ABSOLUTELY be possible to shut it off.
Why? For the obvious reason that sometimes you don’t want someone else to hear that you are turning on your machine. For instance, say you’re in bed and your significant