The most evil team at Microsoft: the WAVE team

Business Pressure my arse, MSFT doesn’t have to listen to the music industry or movie industry.you and I know that the DRM methods won’t work and never will.

The existence of DRM is less of an issue for me than the blatant BS about Microsoft being “open” when they refuse to allow WM to be fully functional on !Microsoft platforms.

But they blather on, blatantly lying about being anything but a way to force you to windows.

Yet they wonder why no one trusts any part of Microsoft other than the Xbox and the MacBU teams.

Gee, I *can’t imagine* why.

Robert,

Of course, I have no idea what you are talking about, Robert. But I wanted to touch base with you and I hear emailing you is just silly. I did want to let you know that I have been taking some videos. If you get a spare moment (Hah! Right.) I would love any suggestions you may have. My goal is to get something up every day, eventually. Right now I am just dealing with a huge learning curve for me and having a lot of fun. Thank you so much for opening this world for me.

Sincerely,

Heather Flanagan
http://www.peoplegeek.tv.

Letsee, after being wined, dined and PR handheld by Google, you now think they are “different”, and then going wishy washy on DRM and starting up some Vista pre-hype, even post-Microsoft, with the usual false humility ‘I am boring’ (but I really just need to feel the love) tact.

Yah, are so predictable…

Business pressure, for who?

It’s obvious that Microsoft is the one who’ll rip the benefits in the long term.

The worse thing that can happen for computer users is a world where WMA is the only music file format allowed to play under Microsoft+labels conditions. Because when that happens, those companies will have enough weight to stop MP3 player manufacturers from being allowed to ship products that consumers want.

If you think this cannot possibly happen, you are living in a fantasy land.

Robert,

Here a demo of a product you talked about recently if I remember correctly (not sure if you know about it yet, since it seems like the type of thing you would mention): http://phototour.cs.washington.edu/applet/index.html

It’s of the Photosynth application, although I think the final product is going to be way more powerful than this judging from their videos. I was going to e-mail you, but you know…

Why the need to the word Excellence in the team name? Shouldn’t any team always strive for excellence? Or are they replacing the team which has been doing audio video for all these years? The Windows Audio Video Mediocrity team.

My word Robert! You do put up with a lot of nonsense from your visitors!! I hate to see blogs become outlets for character assassinations, “flaming” and the like under the guise of dmeocatization. Those of you who post comments should stick to the knitting (like web technology) and stop questioning Robert’s motives, state-of-mind, yada yada. Some who post comments remind me of the cowards that flip me when I take a second more to skiddaddle at a red light. Come out of you protective basements–show yourself for all your virtues with a link to you, your name and your profile. Here is something that will probably piss you off. Robert manages THE most popular personal blog on the web. He is famous. His fame is not waning, it is gaining. It’s not just clicks and comments–it’s also buzz. Real conversation. I see his name everywhere on the web. I hear people drop his name persistenly. If this creates envy it’s not his problem. But truly try not to let your weaknesses rise lest you lose your own veracity. Robert, I enjoy your blogs to the mth degree–I learn much from your POVs. And you do it with grace, honesty and style–and hilarity. I worry that blogging will descend into Hades where grace is non-existent, on satellite radio with Howard Stern. Democracy gone wild. Oh and while some of you start questioning my motives, I am a pure fan. Hope that does not get your knickers in a tasmanian knot. And please don’t use valuable real estate on Robert’s blog to vent your self-hatred. My daughter calls it “levelling”. Look it up.

Robert, you might have been using the “evil” word as a bit of humor… But, I take offense. I know it is cool these days to attack DRM and those who work with it, but what is lost in all this is the simple fact that DRM was originally created by people (like me) who were trying to make things easier for customers… The fact that the technology has been used to do stupid things is not an inherent attribute of the technology nor an indication of the moral weakness of those who designed it, rather, the problem comes in how people use it. It’s sort of like with guns… “DRM isn’t bad, it is the the people who use it that is the problem.”

I have an interest in this subject since I am the sole inventor on four of the oldest US Patents in the area of DRM. I was also involved in some of Microsoft’s earliest discussions of DRM. (Microsoft co-sponsored the submission of my DDSLA system to the Open Software Foundation back in the late 80′s…) Someday, perhaps soon, I’m going to have to write a blog post about this, however, “back in the old days” when we were working on the early DRM systems, the whole point of the process was to make it easier for customers to purchase software, manage it, and deploy it. You may question, as I do, what people have done with DRM after it was created, but you should recognize that in most cases, the problems aren’t with the folk who create the technology — rather, the problem is with those that decide how to use it in products.

I helped create the field of DRM but I’m not “evil.” I suspect that the folk on Microsoft’s DRM technology team aren’t evil either.

bob wyman

Nice video Robert, good to see the faces behind the DRM.

This technology is going to enable you and me to make a nickel from every download of quality content we create, its not just about the movie moguls and record company fat cats.

Bob: good point. I don’t see anyone on this team as evil. They are responding to a business request and, personally, if I were in their shoes I’d do the same.

By the way, true evil is not done in the eye of a video camera. That’s one reason I’m so happy this team finally got up on the Web. The work they do is actually very interesting.

The headline is a bit over the top, though. Sorry about that. Me? I’ve learned stuff like that gets people to pay attention.

I don’t think the DRM team at Microsoft is particularly more evil than any other division. The whole company relies on criminality as a business process. You can’t get any more evil than that!

They don’t rely on criminality as much as they do on misdirection and deception. There’s a difference.

“Business pressure” is a nice excuse for implementing things that make it a pain in the ass to use content you legitimately paid for and have fair use rights over. “I was just following orders.” Where have we heard that before, Robert?

They don’t rely on criminality as much as they do on misdirection and deception. There’s a difference.

Court transcripts and guilty verdicts tell a different story. But yeah, there is a difference.

I come to the conclusion that you didnt wait to drink the kool aid, you went ahead and swallowed the Kool Aid powder.

Hey Robert, I’m on the WAVE team. I’m not evil.

The video was the program managers on the WAVE team, not the developers

More seriously, DRM technology is a platform feature. Content owners insist that the platform have certain protections (DRM) before they’ll license their content for playback on that platform. It’s that simple. You can sell CD’s without DRM, you can sell DVD’s without DRM (I just burned a DRM-free DVD this evening, I could sell it if anyone wanted to pay to watch my son’s “Singing on Stage” class final performance). Heck, I suspect you can even sell HD-DVDs and BLU-RAY DVD’s without DRM (not sure about that, I don’t know how the licensing of them works).

It’s the owners of the content who decide what (if any) restrictions are applied to the content.

But it’s Microsoft that decides that they will force anyone wanting to watch modern versions of WM on to Microsoft platforms, then deride all other DRM formats as “closed” when what they mean is “not WM”.

It’s the insistance on doublespeak that makes me really despise WM.

That and what they charge just for the streaming servers. Pfah.

It’s the owners of the content who decide what (if any) restrictions are applied to the content.

Larry, and it’s your monopolist employer’s choice to follow along. Ever heard of DVD John? I know you have.

You DO NOT need to support DRM in order to play back content. Just once, Microsoft could have used its status as a monopoly to actually drive the industry towards a pro-consumer direction. You could have just refused to “play along” (pardon the pun).

Instead, we get this and junk talk about “platform features”. I don’t hear many Windows end-users asking for HDCP in order to play back HD content. That’s just bullshit. What is DRM but simply a limit on consumer freedom to playback the content they have just because they purchased it in a particular format. That’s evil, and anybody who’s a part of enabling that is doing evil for a paycheck.

Marie Germain, I am not one of the commenters who regularly calls Robert on his faults, real or perceived. However, I must say that I’ve always found sycophancy such as yours more offensive than an overfondness of putdowns. One knows that the person doing the brownnosing can’t possibly be sincere and probably wants something in return for all that ass kissing. So, here’s some advice for you, the advice giver, you’ve got virtual poop on your nose, wipe it.

I think that the anti-DRM people are so vocal on blogs that they create the impression that most folks are opposed to DRM. That is NOT true. DRM is basically an effort to guarantee that people are paid for their work instead of having said work ripped off. The average consumer is not opposed to that at all. The EFF’s campaign to convince folks that they have a gripe they don’t have is fated to fail.

no podesta, DRM is heavily invested method of controlling a customer’s product. what he can do with HIS product that he bought. do you have DRM in cars? the owners can take parts out, study them and even improve them. does FORD,Toyota try to clamp down those technologies? no. the movie and music industry will eventually learn the hard way.

DRM is basically an effort to guarantee that people are paid for their work instead of having said work ripped off. The average consumer is not opposed to that at all.

Show me how the average consumer can “DRM” his or her own content via Windows Vista. Show me that this is being used.

The DRM’d content right now is the stuff consumers buy – DVD’s, music – and is used to limit their ability to reproduce it for other electronics in their home. DRM provides no benefit to the end-consumer, not even lower prices for purchased content.

DRM is basically an effort to guarantee that people are paid for their work instead of having said work ripped off.

Limewire and the rest ask “How’s that working for you”. Not so good.

DRM is the way for RIAA and MPAA to get to their promised land, the ONLY thing they care about:

Making you pay every time you listen, in perpetuity. They could give a rat’s ass about the artists, or “protecting” copyright. That’s all bullshit. What they want is to make you pay them every time you listen or view to any form of media, and they want to make it an inherent part of the hardware so that there’s no physical, nor technological way for you to NOT pay.

What they want is an end to free content in any form.

Microsoft makes a lot of money by playing that tune. I just wish they’d stop trying to make it sound like they’re doing us a favor.

Obviously, I disagree with all three or four of you. Here’s why:

DRM does me no harm, nor does it harm other consumers. Most of my digital content is, of course, from CDs I own or owned. However, I do buy content from the iTunes Music Store. It is protected by Apple’s Fairplay DRM. I can:

• Play it on multiple computers (up to five)

• Play it on multiple iPods

• Back it up to CDs or hard drives

• Rip the music to MP3 files on CDs or in my iTunes libraries

• Store it in a digital locker

I can also play my content on any OS, proving that iTunes is not monopolistic.

Truth of the matter is that most iPod owners and iTunes users do not have a complaint about DRM. We acceot it as a part of being able to purchase music, television shows, and, soon, movies, digitally, As I said before, that’s a gripe a few soreheads are trying to impose on the average consumer.

Really Podesta? Okay, go play DRM’d iTunes content on Linux. You have fun with that.

Also, you can’t directly rip DRM’d iTMS purchases to MP3 CDs. You have to burn it to Audio CDs, then re-rip it to MP3. A minor set of steps, and there is some loss in fidelity, but you can’t just go from .m4p to .mp3 directly.

While Apple is more open about the platforms you can play iTMS purchases on than Microsoft is, (Apple supports three actually: Windows, Mac OS X, and Motorola, whereas Microsoft and WM only support 1: Microsoft), as of yet, they still don’t support Linux or any other Unix for that matter.

So they’re better by far than anything the Windows Media team can try to PR away, but they’re far from letting you play your iTMS purchases on “any” OS.

Do keep the facts in mind here, hmm?