Is Apple copying Microsoft?
OK, I just watched the Steve Jobs presentation yesterday where he demonstrated iTV for the first time.
Now, do you remember when I met Steve Jobs on a street corner in San Francisco? Remember what he said to me? “Nice to meet the guys who are copying us.” (Us being Apple, since I was there with Dean Hachamovitch, executive at Microsoft, he was saying that Apple leads, Microsoft follows. UPDATE: Dave Winer was also there, I forgot about the irony that Steve copied lots of Dave’s stuff).
Well, Steve, the honor turns out to be mine! Your UI looks an awful lot like Windows Media Center. Almost a total copy. So, who is copying whom? What’s next, a Tablet PC copy?
Here, we can all play this game. Go watch my video, displayed back in April 2006 with the Media Center team and check out the UI. Now, head over to the Steve Jobs presentation and watch the iTV presentation. It starts at about minute 55.
If anyone ever tells me again that Microsoft only copies Apple I’m gonna puke.
UPDATE: if you watch the John Legend concert at the end of the Apple Showtime video you’ll see he has some weird headphones. Hint: they aren’t an Apple product. They are Ultimate Ears headphones. They cost $900. But they are simply the best headphones on the market. Period. Custom designed for your ears. Disclaimer, I got a pair for free last year. Why are they so good? A baby can be screaming in the seat next to me and I can barely hear it.
September 13th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
“If anyone ever tells me again that Microsoft only copies Apple I’m gonna puke.”
Hehe.
Thankfully they don’t copy Microsoft’s product names.
September 13th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
All to true, Robert.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
Another thing they copy is the browsing by album cover like in Windows Media Player 11
September 13th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Oh please Robert, we all know it’s two ways. But the VAST majority of the copying happens in Redmond.
The Zune is the latest example. And Microsoft still thinks that forcing people to use Windows is going to make the Zune succesful. Good luck there. The Windows Media UI copying iTunes. etc.
Oh, let us not forget the blatant lying from the WM team: “Windows Media is MORE OPEN than iTunes”. But leaving out “As long as you only ever use WIndows, because, after all, Open is spelled Windows”
Yeah. Good job there. Then Microsoft wonders why everyone assumes Ballmer and the rest are lying every time they open their mouths. Well, we’ve learned from their example.
You also predicted a media center being announced at the WWDC, and were quite the pinhead towards everyone who said “No, that’s not the event for them to announce such a thing”, all waving your “I KNOW PEOPLE” penis. Looked real good there man.
How are the media center sales as a percentage of all PC sales? I can tell you in KC, they aren’t flying off the shelves. But then again, to you, the country is the west coast, NYC, and Vegas. Then you wonder why outside of your little fan club, no one cares about tablets, or media centers. Maybe it’s because most people have better things to spend $4K on than a friggin’ TV.
The cluelessness of your crowd of sycophants is so amusing.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
[...] Robert Scoble recently posted about how similar the UI looks in Apple’s iTV to Windows Media Center. And he finished his post with what I think is worthy of being Quote of the Day: “If anyone ever tells me again that Microsoft only copies Apple I’m gonna puke.” [...]
September 13th, 2006 at 7:21 pm
Apple has copied the Media Center layout but they forgot the TV part (and the hi-def part) from their iTV solution. They REALLY need a TV tuner solution.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
John: but the deal is that Apple lemmings like my son always like to push it in your face when Microsoft copies the good ideas of Apple.
>>The Zune is the latest example.
It has a much bigger screen than iPod. Did they copy THAT from Apple? It has Wifi, which the iPod doesn’t have. Did they copy THAT from Apple? It has a subscription music service so you don’t have to pay a buck to listen to a song. Did they copy THAT from Apple?
>>You also predicted a media center being announced at the WWDC
Well, I also apologized and said I was wrong. I guess you missed that post.
>How are the media center sales as a percentage of all PC sales?
When I worked at Microsoft I looked it up. Media Center is installed on about 30% of the PCs sold today. Now, very few of those have tuners, but that’s not what you just asked.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:23 pm
To John C. Welch: the Media Center sales are now higher than 50% of PCs sold at retail. Just ask Dell, HP, etc. Not too shabby.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
It’s true. Microsoft don’t always copy Apple. Look at the Zune. Looks like crap. Looks like a kid’s plastic toy. I guess style comes from the top. And in this case that’d be Steve Ballmer. Enough said.
“If anyone ever tells me again that Microsoft only copies Apple I’m gonna puke.”
That is true. They don’t only copy Apple. They also copy Google, Yahoo!… oh way too many others to mention. Just look at how many times you see news stories about Microsoft releasing their version of something someone else has done. Microsoft is the new Xerox.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
“Just look at how many times you see news stories about Microsoft releasing their version of something someone else has done.”
Yeah right!! As if there weren’t mp3 players before iPod. As if Apple was the first company to come up with the iTV concept. As if Apple didn’t copy Xerox’s gui interface in the first place. From whom did Microsoft copy the idea for Media Center? What about WiFi in Zune? What about showing album covers in WMP 11?
September 13th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
It’s round 198 of the Mac-MS Holy war…with all the SaaS and Office 2.0 stuff should we not be thinking about Larry Ellison’s 7 year old vision of Network computer or Negropointe’s $ 100 machine he is building for developing markets…not cool, but just a tad cheaper?
September 13th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
Diego,
At least Xerox had PARC.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:36 pm
Anonymous: yeah, do we ever hear about Apple Research Labs?
Vinnie: what is there to say about it? Why don’t you start up a blog and I’ll link to a post about it.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Other things Apple has “copied”:
- Spotlight
- Dashboard
- Expose
- Time Machine
- Fast User Switching (don’t remember what Apple calls it)
- iPod
- Front Row
Besides, that statement is wrong on its face, because Microsoft certainly copies plenty of other companies besides Apple!
“Imitation is the lifeblood of competition.”
September 13th, 2006 at 7:43 pm
“They also copy Google, Yahoo!… oh way too many others to mention.”
Google does ts fair share of copying these days (especially of Microsoft). Yahoo to a much lesser extent; I consider them the most original of the 3 “portals” or however you would classify them.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:46 pm
This isn’t the first time and won’t be the last.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
The best part is Apple just copied the FUD. Announce something way ahead of time, right before the big holiday season, freeze consumers in their tracks, ace your competitors, sell billions over the holiday.
The only difference is Apple will probably actually deliver come 1Q-07.
Jobs is playing hard-ball. And good for him.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:49 pm
Since you can’t be bothered to know these things, the hierarchical menu UI (which I think you are referring to) is in fact the patent for which Apple paid Creative $100MM last month. Part of the settlement was that if Creative successfully recovers damages from other patent violators, Apple’s payment would be reduced pro rata. So, soon, you’ll find out who copied whom.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
“It has a much bigger screen than iPod. Did they copy THAT from Apple? It has Wifi, which the iPod doesn’t have. Did they copy THAT from Apple? It has a subscription music service so you don’t have to pay a buck to listen to a song. Did they copy THAT from Apple?”
The whole music store and music player combination. Did they copy that from Apple? Yes. Microsoft again coming in late to a game. Copy what they can and just throw money at it.
Subscription is the inferior model. I don’t want to have to keep on paying someone to listen to music. I want /my/ music. So I pay for it and own it. I stop paying and I have no music to listen to? That’s an inferior model.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
“Anonymous: yeah, do we ever hear about Apple Research Labs?”
No. They just release great products.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
domovoi: Yes, look at Vista. It’s a lame copy of OS X, really. And everyone’s waited some six years for that? Why? That’s MS waiting to see what others do, in those six years, so they can catch up and put it in their OS. MS are so uninspiring that it’s quite sad.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
“And everyone’s waited some six years for that? Why? That’s MS waiting to see what others do, in those six years, so they can catch up and put it in their OS. MS are so uninspiring that it’s quite sad.”
Copy or not, a lot of Vista’s features are compelling over its predecessor. So, why should people care if they copied those features (and many of them, by the way, they didn’t)? Look at OS X, so many of its features are copies, but they’re useful features! I see no reason to complain about it. People are way too freaking insecure.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:06 pm
Diego: with Zune I have a CHOICE of owning the music or subscribing to it.
Oh, I see other things that Apple doesn’t have in its iPod. http://www.zunerama.com/#060912_newipod_story
Like an FM tuner.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
Diego: >Yes, look at Vista. It’s a lame copy of OS X, really.
Really? Wild. Well, wake me up when I have a Tablet PC that I can draw right on the screen running OSX. Or, when I have a real media center, not this lame copy called iTV.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
“When I worked at Microsoft I looked it up. Media Center is installed on about 30% of the PCs sold today. Now, very few of those have tuners, but that’s not what you just asked.”
Perhaps a bit off-topic, but I recently did some surveys where we found that less than half of those with Media Center PCs *knew* they had them, and a tiny fraction actually took advantage of the Media Center specific features.
More on-topic:
I gotta totally agree with you Robert. You know I’m a huge Apple fan, but not all good ideas Apple has had came from within the company (to put it nicely).
I’m about to puke on hearing *anyone* is copying anyone. Personally, I’d like to see a lot more of it. Companies are going to develop and innovate in parallel, there is bound to be duplication, but even beyond that, I like the idea of good ideas being improved upon.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Yeah, Microsoft doesn’t only copy Apple. We copy Google, SalesForce.com, Expedia, Adobe, Siebel, SAP…etc., etc., etc. How dare Steve Jobs insinuate that we only copy Apple.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
The difference is that Microsoft actually provides value with their new products that so vastly exceeds the amount of value that Apple provides that they can come up with more than “start your photocopiers” to talk about.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:21 pm
MS Media Center is sold only because of OEM channel. Nothing more, nothing less.
I have three versions of Windows preinstalled on my machines at home and I never used it - but I’m included in “market numbers”…
September 13th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
eah, Microsoft doesn’t only copy Apple. We copy Google, SalesForce.com, Expedia, Adobe, Siebel, SAP…etc., etc., etc.
When looking at MSN site stuff I just have to laugh reading something like this from MS (friend/employee/…). - or puke?
September 13th, 2006 at 8:28 pm
The difference is that Microsoft actually provides value with their new products that so vastly exceeds the amount of value that Apple provides that they can come up with more than “start your photocopiers” to talk about.
I’m speechless. It’s even worse than I thought.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
“Diego: with Zune I have a CHOICE of owning the music or subscribing to it.”
Didn’t know that Robert. Still, from a personal point of view I would never subscribe to music. I’d rather own it. Then again, I didn’t know you could buy it too using WMP because I don’t know anyone who has anything other than iPods.
“Oh, I see other things that Apple doesn’t have in its iPod. http://www.zunerama.com/#060912_newipod_story
Like an FM tuner. ”
You gotta beat the combination of iPod + iTunes and the cool look too. Clamping on an FM Tuner and Wifi will not do it, in my opinion.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
“Really? Wild. Well, wake me up when I have a Tablet PC that I can draw right on the screen running OSX.”
Do these Tablet PCs actually exist? Haven’t seen them used by many people, except pictures of them on web sites. You think they’ll pick up in popularity or remain a niche market? ;)
September 13th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Diego: more than a million are selling every year. But, yes, they will pick up in popularity among Apple fans. Probably right around the time Apple announces theirs. :-)
September 13th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
Oh so soon you forget.
Who else was with you that day Scoble!!
Geeez Louise.
Just call me chicken fucking liver.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
BTW, check your mail, something else for Uncle Steve to copy awaits you.
September 13th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
:-)
September 13th, 2006 at 9:02 pm
[...] Scoble says that this time Apple is the copycat! The iTV interface is a lot like the Windows Media Centre PC interface, he says (link). [...]
September 13th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
What’s sad is, one of the biggest reasons Apple doesn’t have more marketshare is because of its smug, arrogant users (not all, but lots). Talk about insecurities/inferiority complexes!
The Media Center plus Extender model is exactly what they’re copying with iTV, minus the TV recording feature (perhaps because they want everyone to purchase it from iTunes). Do I care that they copied the UI? Not at all, except to the extent that I’m so tired of them making such a big deal about Microsoft copying them, and then never acknowledging when they’re the ones copying–just like at the WWDC keynote, where they made many rather unprofessional remarks about their competition copying them, then went on to talk about many features they themselves were copying, without batting an eye. I’ve never seen Microsoft take potshots at Apple at a keynote. It comes across as pretty desperate, honestly.
A few clarifications:
- Google has some cool things, but a lot of their innovations lately have been purchased.
- #4: Tell me how I can license Fairplay, and then you can tell me iTunes is more “open.”
- #11: Not that I’m against bridging the digital divide by any means, but for example, India rejected Negroponte’s idea: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1698603,curpg-1.cms. They worry about the “conceptual vacuum in which the scheme is being propagated.” Not all developing nations think it’s such a wise idea.
- #17: Media Center has been available for years.
- #18: The Media Center UI has nothing to do with the Creative UI.
- #19: You don’t “own” your music with iTunes, either. Subscription may be inferior for you, but can’t others decide for themselves? Isn’t choice a good thing? Definitely true that Microsoft is late to the game, though.
- #21: Will people ever give up on that debunked argument? Microsoft introduced a lot of updates to XP since 2001, but the difference was they didn’t *charge* for them. They also released several different editions of XP; they have hardly been standing still. As Robert said, where’s Apple’s Tablet PC?
- #28: I agree. Microsoft has done nothing to market Media Center, so they aren’t helping raise awareness of the feature.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
Scoble, your defense of Zune proves the point.
Jobs makes the point because in the minds of the average person it holds true. Yes, borrowing occurs on both sides, and yes, Apple has gotten good features from Microsoft. But more often the significant and major copying of Microsoft from Apple occurs when they are going in the wrong direction and need to correct course. Or, after Apple simply does something quite original and clever. (Even if we say Apple copies MS, MC has its own precedents, etc…)
You are throwing out the silliest throw-in features of Zune. Did MS claim the iPod would fail, that the model was wrong, that it’s plan was right for almost FIVE YEARS? Did they get their ass kicked and decide to correct course by copying Apple in terms of controlling the store, app, and hardware, locking out partners, and claiming that a tight, vertical solution that’s easy to use without a fractured community of device manufacturers and partners is the way to go? To MS copy the simple color scheme, basic aesthetics, and even scroll wheel (even though it isn’t a scroll wheel)?
But, oooh, oooh, Zune is original because they are throwing in the top 3 rumors of the last three years that Apple hasn’t implemented solely because they think the timing is incorrect. You’re right, Zune is so original and copying the TiVo interface is evil and unoriginal. But Microsoft is still the more pathetic and “copying”-est of the two companies.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
sorry for being noise but what in the email guys
September 13th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
“But Microsoft is still the more pathetic and “copying”-est of the two companies.”
a) Why is it pathetic?
b) Prove that Microsoft copies more than anyone else.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
One word for ya. Vista.
You ever seen the video where Vista is demo’d with all OSX utilities? It’s uncanny. And regardless, Apple still does a better job at UI design.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:50 pm
well said….this is a carbon copy of Media Center.
Jobs is losing his mojo. I think he should copy Bill and join the philanthropy work in Africa
September 13th, 2006 at 9:51 pm
bluvg
- #4: Tell me how I can license Fairplay, and then you can tell me iTunes is more “open.
For me, I can use iTunes on my macs and on my Bro’s PC.
I can’t use Windows media player at all.
“open” is null for me.
Also . the majority rip content to itunes, so i do own my contnent, especially my originals and my friends OG’s.
This thread is more suited to /.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
“You ever seen the video where Vista is demo’d with all OSX utilities? It’s uncanny. And regardless, Apple still does a better job at UI design.”
Yes I have and the silly thing about it is that the features talked about in Vista often times had absolutely nothing to do with the feature showed in OS X (alt-tab behavior, for one). Also, many of those features in OS X were themselves copies of something else, for example, Dashboard and Spotlight.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
Not only that, but that was an extremely limited set of Vista’s features. Nor does it even prove Microsoft copies more than Apple.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:55 pm
“BTW, check your mail, something else for Uncle Steve to copy awaits you.”
Dave, show us! Show us! :)
September 13th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
“Do these Tablet PCs actually exist?”
“Diego: more than a million are selling every year.”
Hmmm… that’s more than the number of MacBook Pro machines that will be sold this year. Do MacBook Pros actually exist?
September 13th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
In the olden hacker days, everybody copied useful stuff off of everybody else. This was considered prudent, and it worked well for everyone.
Then lawyers came along, “intellectual property” (just the term makes me gag) became an issue, marketeers tagged on, and here we are.
ps. I’m too lazy to go watch all these videos, couldn’t you just post a comparison screenshot or something?
September 13th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
Scoble, why this sudden defense of Microsoft? Are they paying you again?
September 13th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
[...] I haven’t taken the plunge and bought an iPod yet, but I may after watching this presentation by Steve Jobs that I found via Robert Scoble’s blog. iTunes7 looks like it has some great features. I still use Window’s Media Player, but iTunes looks like it may beat it in features. I particularly like the new “Coverflow” feature! That iPod Suffle is TINY! So…who wants to buy me an iPod? « NBC to Stream TV Shows on the Internet | [...]
September 13th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
“- #19: You don’t “own” your music with iTunes, either. Subscription may be inferior for you, but can’t others decide for themselves? Isn’t choice a good thing? Definitely true that Microsoft is late to the game, though.”
Maybe not completely own it in that I can’t share it around other non-iPod players etc.. FairPlay has something to say about this. I can listen to it on multiple machines, iPods and I can also burn the music to a CD. But if don’t have to continue paying to listen to it. I can listen to it forever. In the subscription (extortion) model I have nothing. That’s why, again just my opinion, it’s better than subscriptions.
Although, at the moment the subscription model may be worth it. With Window Media’s DRM being cracked; get a month’s subscription, download all you can eat, crack it and own it. :)
But alas, this OS/music/media-center religious war is getting too wild. Lets bring religion in to this? Mine’s better than yours! :)
September 13th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
sk: no.
You don’t get me. I pass around the shit to everyone, and I pass around the praise to everyone as I see fit too.
They don’t even need to pay me.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
“For me, I can use iTunes on my macs and on my Bro’s PC.”
And you can use WMP on both Macs and Windows. Similarly, both stink on the opposite platform–WMP on OS X bites, and iTunes on Windows bites. I’m certainly not the first to suggest that Apple *wants* iTunes to be a bit flaky and doggy on Windows so it can be an incentive to switch.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
bluvg: iTunes on Windows is better than Windows Media is on Mac, though.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:17 pm
IMHO, Apple is very smart to leave the tuner out of iTV. I already have an HD set top box from my cable company–and it includes a two-tuner DVR. What’s missing? Internet video, my photos, my music, etc. iTV gives me access to all that. By contrast Media Center wants to include every function–including tuners and DVR. Except that it’s SD only. Where’s my Discover HD Theatre? Where’s my HBO HD? Not coming through the media center that’s for sure. Not on the Mdia Center DVR. Apple recognizes that there’s no need to pump HDTV through my PC into my TV–it’s already there at my TV in my set top box. Why duplicate the cable or satellite receiver? Just supply the missing pieces.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:18 pm
“- #21: Will people ever give up on that debunked argument? Microsoft introduced a lot of updates to XP since 2001, but the difference was they didn’t *charge* for them. They also released several different editions of XP; they have hardly been standing still. As Robert said, where’s Apple’s Tablet PC?”
What besides security and bug fixes have they delivered? XP still looks the same to me as it did since 2001. All the stuff that’s changed, been updated or is cool are applications from non-Microsoft companies. Desktop search? Google Desktop. Photo app: Picasa. IM: Yahoo Messenger. Email: Thunderbird. and so on, and on. Developer tools certainly have been great from MS. And I use Office. But that hasn’t changed for ages too. I hear the new version has ribbons. But XP? Nothing much has changed.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
“And you can use WMP on both Macs and Windows. Similarly, both stink on the opposite platform–WMP on OS X bites, and iTunes on Windows bites. I’m certainly not the first to suggest that Apple *wants* iTunes to be a bit flaky and doggy on Windows so it can be an incentive to switch.”
Microsoft are no longer developing Windows Media Player on the Mac. Or so I believe to be the case.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
“With Window Media’s DRM being cracked; get a month’s subscription, download all you can eat, crack it and own it.”
True. :) Though we might as well take a stroll through the iTunes cafeteria as well, then, as FairPlay was similarly recently cracked.
I think I’ll just sit down at the piano now and play awhile… as long as the piano doesn’t mind, I’m going to call it MINE! ;) Not that anyone else would want it, anyways….
September 13th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
[...] There’s a little blurb on Scoble’s blog today that talks about how Apple copied the Windows Media Center UI in its upcoming iTV. And so the debate begins again about who copies who. [...]
September 13th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
Diego: just because you haven’t been seeing the different versions of XP that have shipped since 2003 doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
First of all, Vista was built on the codebase of Windows Server 2003, not XP. So that tells you something right there. There’s a whole separate OS inside Microsoft from XP. Should that count as coming from the Windows team? Yes.
Then, there’s the Tablet PC Edition. Has all sorts of new handwriting recognition and navigation stuff. Has been updated at least twice.
Then, there’s the Windows Media Center which has all sorts of stuff to play media. Pictures, video, audio, that kind of stuff. It’s been updated three times that I know about with major changes each time.
Both of those are getting rolled into Vista, by the way.
Oh, and Windows Service Pack 2 included an update for Wireless too. So it wasn’t just a security and bug fix thing. But, I don’t think that’s the kind of major deal that would help make my point, so we can leave that off the table.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
Ironically, I wasn’t the first to make the point that Apple’s announcements yesterday looked awfully familiar. Ed Bott makes the point even better than I did (I didn’t see his post until just now): http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=135
September 13th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
“True. :) Though we might as well take a stroll through the iTunes cafeteria as well, then, as FairPlay was similarly recently cracked.”
bluvg, that is true. But with the iTunes version you actually have to play all your music while it cracks it. While the WMP one does it almost instantly. So you’ll get a lot more music in that month’s worth of subscription. :)
September 13th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
Diego, just because you haven’t read about all this stuff on macdailynews.com doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Also, just because the site tells you Microsoft copies everything that Apple does, whereas Apple never copies any other company, doesn’t mean it’s true. What do you hate about Microsoft so much that you’re unwilling to let go and accept the truth?
September 13th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
A million Tablets a year??? Wow!!! Look out, Apple. I think about every PC mfg shits a million non-Tablet PC’s a year. I million Tablets, when compared to overall PC sales, is minute.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
Um bvlug, my obscured point is that since I use mac hardware, the new windows media player does NOT work on my mac (the drm’d stuff like amazon etc etc). So in my case, the conversation that whether windows media player is better or worse than iTunes is moot, to me.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
“I million Tablets, when compared to overall PC sales, is minute.”
A few million is comparable to Apple’s sales, though. So, yes indeed, look out, Apple.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
“And you can use WMP on both Macs and Windows. Similarly, both stink on the opposite platform–WMP on OS X bites, and iTunes on Windows bites. I’m certainly not the first to suggest that Apple *wants* iTunes to be a bit flaky and doggy on Windows so it can be an incentive to switch.”
total crap.
1. I own 4 computers, two macs, two windows boxes. itunes works just as well on all 4 machines. i would say that flaky drivers on the part of your PC is a more likely cause of the problem than the “grand conspiracy of apple” to cripple their software on the largest OS platform in the world. do you even realize how absurd that suggestion is?
2. there is a major difference between WMP and itunes. there is no content available in itunes nor is there any ipod sold that does not work equally well on both windows and osx. apple goes to great lengths to make sure that you can buy music and movies on both platform with equal ease.
not true for zune/plays4sure. doesn’t work at ALL on osx. microsoft didnt even bother. secondly, none of the subscription based services or amazon’s unboxed video store work on the mac. again, itunes works on both platform equally.
3. before you launch into a whole thing about apple’s small market share let me remind you of the large (and growing) marketshare of apple computers in the student population. i have been in higher-education for 6 years now and i see more macs and ipods every year. these sorts of services are targeted to young kids, not to the giant business enterprises that windows dominates in. ignoring a fairly prominent platform for young people is the biggest mistake microsoft is making here.
4. i should add that mac users were unable to play movies encoded in WMP9 because MS hasnt updated WMP for OSX since Nov 7, 2003. In fact, rather than update the software MS purchased a company which makes a buggy quicktime plugin which constantly berates you to upgrade to some “pro” version just to play back a video file from 2003.
very different outcome than the h.264 MP4 files i create in quicktime that can be played on macs, in windows, on linux (via VLC) and even beos.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
LayZ: I can’t wait for Apple to do a Tablet PC and watch what you say then.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
“Diego: with Zune I have a CHOICE of owning the music or subscribing to it.”
Good. Cuz no one cares about renting music. And it’s also great that you have WIfi. Nothin like a 20 minute battery life to sink an underdog player.
Anything else.. oh yeah.. no scrollwheel, and … MS just knifed their ‘partners’…
September 13th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
These Apple vs MS wars are a yawner. Does pointing fingers and saying “well your team stole that, and my team only steals these things” really make sense… or change anything?
It matters very little to the consumer as long as they end up with a great product to use.
As far as my concerns… lets the companies keep at it, as long as I end up getting a better price per performance ratio out of whatever I buy from them.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
“XP still looks the same to me as it did since 2001.”
That’s the problem… if people don’t see UI changes, they figure nothing has changed. And the more the UI changes, the more they figure something is new. For example, if the XP UI was unchanged in Vista, despite the myriad changes under the hood, you’d see the CNets, PC Mags, et al declare it “essentially XP SE.” With Apple, it’s UI first, and let the rest catch up–witness the essentially unusable 64-bit support in 10.4, the lousy threading model of BSD-on-Mach, ACLs only appearing in 10.4 (and even then only via CLI on the client–very user-friendly, indeed), etc.
You name a lot of free add-ons, but I could make a very similar list of apps for the Mac that were first available elsewhere, and then made available by Apple. The difference? Apple charged for them. And again, where’s the Tablet PC? You know without a doubt that if Steve Jobs had keynoted this instead of Microsoft, the Apple faithful would have gasped, fainted, broke into rapturous applause, and rubbed it in everyone else’s face for the past several years. But Microsoft introduces it and updates it, and they’re dismissed as having stood still.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Hmm, just read ed botts take and he’s saying album cover views in WMP are on vista?
Is that out yet?
IS the implemenation like cover flow that is out now on itunes?
I dont know, I’m asking.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Bluvg,you’re getting stale, this thread is stale.
like above, Yawn.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
James: yeah. I saw Microsoft demoing something very similar to cover flow more than a year ago internally. Mostly as part of the demos for Avalon (Windows Presentation Foundation) but more recently as part of Vista demos. Almost exactly the same demo as Steve Jobs did too. I should have brought that up.
Charlie Owen who works on Media Center team at Microsoft wraps up a bunch of different blogs talking about these issues here: http://blog.retrosight.com/PermaLink,guid,6267dc0f-8973-4f58-9ca0-2074ef192c36.aspx
September 13th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
Robert, what are you guys going to do about the Zune? Oh wait… You don’t work for MS anymore, forgot :p
I think Zune has got to be one of the ugliest pieces of hardware I have ever seen.
http://sdpurtill.wordpress.com/2006/09/14/the-microsoft-zune-is-a-failure-already/
September 13th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
james: yes, the beta has been available for quite some time to the public. go to the download center and download wmp 11 beta 2 for windows xp. vista beta 2 and rc1 had it bundled of course.
September 13th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
“I think Zune has got to be one of the ugliest pieces of hardware I have ever seen.”
I agree with sdpurtill that from the pics Zune looks pretty ugly. Is that only a decoy?
September 13th, 2006 at 10:55 pm
“What do you hate about Microsoft so much that you’re unwilling to let go and accept the truth?”
I don’t hate Microsoft. Hate is a strong word. A lot of their products are very uninspiring to me, that’s all. Not all of them though. I think their developer tools and technologies are very good. Visual Studio, C#, .NET, etc. Their end-user applications and the OS just doesn’t do it for me. So don’t take my multiple posts here as hatemongering. I’m just enjoying the chatter on this topic and don’t take it seriously. :)
September 13th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
#68: You’re right, it has a bit of a conspiracy theory ring to it, and I usually shy away from that. But I can tell you from what I’ve seen is that iTunes definitely does not work as well on Windows as it does on a Mac, and I think that shouldn’t come as a surprise. Where I work (and iPods are allowed), we’ve seen some issues with the iTunes services flaking out along with generally pokey performance and high memory utilization. No flaky drivers–these machines work just fine without iTunes.
You’re right also about comparing WMP for OS X to iTunes for Windows–it’s comparing apples to oranges. WMP for OS X can play Windows Media 9 format content, though–the WMP version is version 9. However, not all WM9 format codecs are supported.
Hopefully Flip4Mac will be improved. I doubt Microsoft will start to update WMP for OS X again, since the Mac community tends to harbor animosity towards their products and avoid them, and also because Mac users would almost certainly pick iTunes over a true WMP update. It would be nice if they at least offered a full codec set with a lean, solid player.
September 13th, 2006 at 11:09 pm
James… and I thought I was just getting started! :P
For what it’s worth, though, I agree with sk–the Zune is not very attractive, from the pictures I’ve seen. And from what I’ve read, I don’t see any killer feature. Maybe I’m missing something? FM tuner? No big deal (actually, am I the only one on the planet that would want an **AM**/FM tuner?). Sharing music via WiFi? How does that help me if everyone else has an iPod?
September 13th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
“I saw Microsoft demoing something very similar to cover flow more than a year ago internally. Mostly as part of the demos for Avalon (Windows Presentation Foundation) but more recently as part of Vista demos. Almost exactly the same demo as Steve Jobs did too. I should have brought that up.’
It’s no good if it’s something shown internally and it’s not released in a product for end-users. I saw a 3D rendered OS UI years ago, in public, in OS X which everyone could see and use. That’s coming in Vista too, right? ;)
BTW, not sure if this was mentioned in this thread but Apple did not do Cover Flow. They bought it from someone else: http://www.steelskies.com/coverflow/
CoverFlow has been around for over a year. So I wouldn’t say Microsoft come up with the idea. Maybe someone at MS saw CoverFlow and copied it. :)
September 13th, 2006 at 11:24 pm
“Sharing music via WiFi? How does that help me if everyone else has an iPod?”
Exactly. What good is that feature when almost everyone around you will have an iPod? Considering that the XBox team is working on it and that Microsoft is up against the iPod, the Zune looks disappointing. Unless they’re working on some killer features in Redmond, I’d rather buy another iPod.
September 13th, 2006 at 11:30 pm
“Exactly. What good is that feature when almost everyone around you will have an iPod? Considering that the XBox team is working on it and that Microsoft is up against the iPod, the Zune looks disappointing. Unless they’re working on some killer features in Redmond, I’d rather buy another iPod.”
You’d buy a Zune if you wanted to be the dorky kid at school who’s got the clunky looking music player. Then you’d buy it. Otherwise you’d get an iPod which all your friends have.
September 13th, 2006 at 11:41 pm
“BTW, check your mail, something else for Uncle Steve to copy awaits you.”
River of News? ;)
September 13th, 2006 at 11:42 pm
Speaking of blatant rip-offs, Microsoft ripped (or silently licensed, I don’t know which) the Media Center UI from Cyberlink Powercinema several years ago. An earlier Cyberlink Powercinema version had 100% the UI of Media Center 2005.
Just in case you are throwing a rock at Apple, admit that EVERYBODY is ripping everybody, and even you Scoble seem to participate in this idiot game. Rock on !
September 13th, 2006 at 11:43 pm
So about the price of tea in China…
September 13th, 2006 at 11:48 pm
Diego: personalized River of News.
September 13th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
“Diego: personalized River of News.”
Robert: I’m still not sold on the River of News idea. Maybe I just need to give it time. Like a lot fo Dave’s ideas it sometimes takes a while for the lightbulb to burn bright.
September 13th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
Microsoft only copies Apple. There. Now go puke. :P
On a serious note, what is the last BIG original thing? Anyone? I don’t have an answer either. People are either copying or adding on anymore with very little innovation. Sure, Microsoft or Apple copy from each other, Linux, or some good shareware, but when was the last serious “Holy ____, I didn’t know computers could do that moment?”
And people wonder why I’m bitter… >:(
September 14th, 2006 at 12:35 am
[...] Yesterday I wrote that I wasn’t impressed by the announcements of Apple. Robert Scoble agrees and goes a step further: he accuses Apple of copying Microsoft. I have to agree with him, at least in part. I still don’t think iTV/iTunes/FrontRow is a viable alternative to Media Center/Xbox 360. For that matter, different combinations using the Xbox Media Center are also better (but you’ll have to mod your Xbox). [...]
September 14th, 2006 at 1:04 am
well, i guess you know who started copying, and copied what.
i most of the time have the feeling whatever microsoft introduces as new has been around for 4 or 5 years. you don’t need examples, do you?
pity once i thought microsoft invented the GUI.
and copying these tiny things is not much of importance. maybe if apple had been copying, i could joy playing with macs.
September 14th, 2006 at 1:45 am
Wow, bitching about Apple. HULLO! Bitching is always fun.
September 14th, 2006 at 1:50 am
Scoble, lets be real here. Hardly anybody at Microsoft uses Tablets as Tablets. Why? Because on the whole they suck. Its a gimmick feature. Apple hasnt released a Tablet Mac because if they did it like MS did it, it would suck. Its the honest truth. I’ve seen ONE person at MS use it for handwriting during meetings and id laugh as he struggled to get the OS to recognise a particular word while I typed away without a care in the world.
Media Centers UI looks nothing like Front Row. Are you serious? The IDEA of Front Row does stem heavily from MCE, but the implementation is quite different.
And the sales shit doesnt mean much either. OEMs bundle MCE with their PCs. But how many consumers use them for that fashion? Hint; I dont know a single person who does.
Zune has some cool shit, and stuff that Apple will invariably release on its iPod/iTunes. But thats the nature of the business. What I will say though is that we at MS are ten times the size of Apple in terms of resources that are put into our products. But the rate of innovation Apple produce that we take from them is wildly disproportionate to our innovations that Apple takes, especially in light of said size of the companies.
September 14th, 2006 at 2:27 am
I have agree with the comments of John C. Welch when he says it goes both ways.
However the differences are how the two companies leverage features: Under the Media Center UI is the behemoth of Windows with all the functionality of windows and the admin overheads that goes with it.
Apple have taken the less is more route. It doesn’t need the capability to run Office because I don’t need that under my TV, it doesn’t need to be patched because somebody could potentially exploit a hole in some other area of functionality that I don’t need under my TV. It simply bridges the gap between the PC and the TV set which when it comes down to it is all anyone has been asking for.
September 14th, 2006 at 2:59 am
Petty, petty, petty.
“You copied us!”
“No, you copied US!”
The simple fact of the matter is that competitors copy each other in order to stay competitive, its a fairly obvious business tactic.
Take cup holders in cars. They all have them. Who had them first, and who copied? Who cares. Do they argue about it all the time? (Well, maybe they do on the Ford Focus discussion boards but I think it’s unlikely).
This leads into patenting features — again, it’s a simple business tactic to get a competitive edge.
So we have an arms race — create a new feature and patent it. Competitors will add a new feature similar enough to regain competitive edge, dissimilar enough to get past the patent courts (hopefull).
There’s no point getting into a pissing contest about it.
Herbie
September 14th, 2006 at 3:42 am
I read that headline and thought “trollbait” !
I love a good punch up. It’s great when everyone comes out of the woodwork on both sides of the fence.
For the record, I couldn’t give a shit who copied who or who’s more evil than who. I just like to use something that gets the job done! Maybe some of these kids will realise that when they grow up.
;)
September 14th, 2006 at 3:52 am
Holy cow, Scoble, it looks like all the Mac fanboys who normally follow Thurrott around throwing FUD have found their way over here…
September 14th, 2006 at 4:48 am
Just on word - Do you really think Applne needs to copy bad quality work …
September 14th, 2006 at 4:50 am
Hear Hear re the Ultimate Ears. I also recieved one of the budget pairs last year from them (so $500) as they ran some commericals on http://www.tpnrock.com/ How ghood are they? I slept all the way from Dallas to London Heathrow on a clapped out 767, in economy. I’ve NEVER been able to sleep on a flight before, with all the noise, engines and families. But now, Ultimate Ears and some chill out muisic all the way.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:12 am
Blah, blah, blah. #97 hit it on the head. THis is just flamebait.
As a lot of your articles have been Robert. Not a majority at all, but a significant amount. You’re starting to turn into Dvorak here, and that’s really a shame. But then if you flamebait enough Robert, your hits go up, and of course, then you get to write in a couple months, yet another one of your whining, crying in your teatowel articles about “Ohhh, people are just so meeeeeeeeean to meeee, and I don’t know whyyyyy”
Suck it up Princess, you want to follow the Dvorak/Enderle route, then stop crying about the results. Have SOME integrity.
September 14th, 2006 at 5:15 am
[...] Kill me now. [...]
September 14th, 2006 at 6:02 am
a comment, a link and a comment…
I’m a jazz fan. I love the way jazzers “copy” and quote each other. As I sit in the online media audience now, I like the UI jam Apple, TiVo and Microsoft are playing for me. Makes for an interesting experience. I like their Pop Tech but I’m always looking for new talent to step and blow…something from Yves Behar or nice German Braun or Krups line. And isn’t it time B&O stepped up and blew a few danish modern UI riffs? Congrats to Apple for bringing in CoverFlow to join the band and play tenor sex.
more at http://loooktv.wordpress.com/
re:Apple…I’m a little fearful of the new iTunes feature that scans my library and fills in all the cover art I’m missing. Is it me or is this a great data mining strategy to build profile records around lifestage? Is this a big deal?
moderately paranoid in dot TV land
September 14th, 2006 at 6:23 am
[...] Just read Scoble’s post “Is Apple Copying Microsoft?” and I couldn’t agree with him more. [...]
September 14th, 2006 at 6:26 am
@103.
For the moderately paranoid in you.
When you install iTunes 7 the program asks you first / gives you the option if you want to auto scan for cover art.
This is Apple NOT Microsoft (pure flame bait :-p)
September 14th, 2006 at 6:36 am
crying babies don’t bother me any more now i have my own. a. baby. crying and. its. not. mine. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
we’ll see how long the baby cry tranquilizer works…
and never forget apple ripped the shit out of Xerox Parc. dont tell me mouse and icon was an apple invention.
September 14th, 2006 at 6:46 am
Microsoft’s Media Center and Apple’s Front Row are both copies of the XboxMediaCenter developed years ago for hacked Xboxes.
But, neither company “copies”. It is taking a good idea and attempting to improve it. Sometimes there is failure, sometime there is success. That is what our technological history has been built on.
September 14th, 2006 at 6:58 am
Hello? Doesnt anyone actually know that Bill Gates STOLE Windows from Apple, who really got it from Xerox?
Come on people, stop being a slave to M$!!!!
September 14th, 2006 at 6:58 am
I think the sad fact is that when anyone copies it means no one is inovating. Apple has a tendancy to inovate and design good practical products. There will always be overlap to some degree with other companies and developers. The said fact is microsoft generally does not inovate but duplicate. It can produce “good” products and considering it’s wealth it should do but often falls short. Drawing ideas from those around it, and generally being lazy it production and execusion. Apple, google, yahoo arn’t perfect by a long stretch but do push the envelope. The real loss is end users loose out 9/10 with microsoft because it could do so much better - just look at the Xbox 360 - it can bring it out of the bag.
The problem is microsoft copies far more than most out there and its in the limelight all the time - it should know better but unfortunately it doesn’t.
September 14th, 2006 at 7:29 am
kcrouche: I guess you are “slave” to Apple?
September 14th, 2006 at 7:43 am
Reader numbers down again are they Robert? Or have you got into that frame of mind “Why I hate this”, “Why X is useless”, “Why my old company is better than X company” again where you need a holiday? So soon after the last. Are you living proof that Information Overload is not a good thing?
September 14th, 2006 at 8:01 am
“with Zune I have a CHOICE of owning the music or subscribing to it.”
Wake me up when the Zune is out to check if this is true…
September 14th, 2006 at 8:12 am
[...] Everybody’s favorite ex-Softie, Scoble, accuses Apple of copying the UI design from Windows Media Center, and I have to say, there are some heavy similarities. Naturally, Apple’s looks a bit more slick. But consider: if one assumes the two UIs were developed completely separate, with no influence from the other, might two well-designed UIs look similar simply because they are both good designs? Don’t good designs often share similar good traits? [...]
September 14th, 2006 at 8:53 am
Well, Apple DID had a tablet PC : the Newton. Atari even had its own : the ST-Pad (I’ve seen at least a prototype, circa 1989-90 I think).
Who copied who ?
September 14th, 2006 at 9:10 am
Microsoft has to be the business that was built around copying. So, go on puke…!
You really have to be an ass if you can’t make the link between
Apple and INNOVATION
and
Microsoft and COPIES (poorly and insecurely too mainly).
September 14th, 2006 at 9:10 am
Mmmm. Doesn’t the Windows Media Center UI bear strong resemblance to the TiVo UI? I also would point out that the iTV UI actually bears stronger resemblance to the iPod UI, for which Apple and Creative recently resolved a patent dispute. The UI approach is based on a simple tasked-based approach. What is so revolutionary about a list of tasks?
Surely, you don’t suggest that Microsoft created the concept of a list of tasks? Long before there were computers, kids textbooks used a list of subjects and coded color segments so that kids could easily find their way to the right topics. The organizational principle is quite similar.
There are plenty of examples that predate Media Center or anything Apple has done since.
September 14th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Apple has introdeuced first Macintosh that had integrated TV tuner back in 1993-Macintosh LC550.
Details
Introduced 1993.10.25 at $2,079; discontinued 1994.04
requires System 7.1 (with Enabler 404) to 7.6.1
CPU: 32 MHz 68030
FPU: none, not even as an option
performance: 7.0 MIPS
ROM: 1 MB
RAM: 5 MB from factory (4 MB on motherboard, expandable to 8 MB using a single 100ns 72-pin SIMM; can use 1 MB or 4 MB SIMM)
video: 512 KB VRAM; supports 640 x 480 at 8-bits
L2 cache: none
hard drive: 60 MB
CD-ROM: 2x
ADB ports for keyboard and mouse
DIN-8 serial ports on back of computer
DB-25 SCSI connector on back of computer
no expansion slots
size (HxWxD): 17.9″ x 13.5″ x 16.5″
weight: 40.5 lb.
PRAM battery: 3.6V lithium
Gestalt ID: 88
addressing: 32-bit
upgrade path: none
Image: http://lowendmac.com/500/mactv.jpg
Seeing all this, I really don’t know who copied from who. Besides, if we look back to what all Microsoft had copied, stole or just bought off cheap and then presented it as their own technology, well I think that we would need another blog for that….
September 14th, 2006 at 9:42 am
“LayZ: I can’t wait for Apple to do a Tablet PC and watch what you say then.”
Robert Scoble: Why hasn’t Apple hasn’t released a Tablet system or Media Center yet? Obviously, the technology to build them exists, so what’s the hold up?
Apple doesn’t just release products because “it can”, it does so when it feels the technology, user experience and market will result in a product people really WANT. Sure, there are people who need a Tablet PC for their job or bleeding edge users like yourself who will buy the latest gadgets, but that’s not Apple’s market.
Apple pioneered the hand-held, industry with the Newton. It was an amazing product at for it’s time, but technology and end users wasn’t ready yet so they killed it.
But does that mean doesn’t mean that Apple stopped working on hand-held / tablet prototypes and software? No. It means that Apple doesn’t think the current market, technology and user experience will result in a tablet device that people will really WANT to buy.
If you expect Apple to show their hand and release products just because everyone else does, you’re going to be disappointed.
September 14th, 2006 at 9:58 am
Scoble you suck, the only reason Media PC sales are up is because MSFT makes OEM put the Media Center Version of regular laptops now.
plus MSFT does copy alot, wow, Apple just copied one little item and you go ballistic.
Zune is just a copy of a Ipod.
I thought you didnt work for MSFT anymore but most of your topics are all the same.
September 14th, 2006 at 10:08 am
Two mild surprises for me in today’s Zune debut announcement:
1. Choice of downloads or subscriptions. This had been speculated, but nice to see it confirmed by Microsoft. We think many will be attracted to the simple subscription model.
2. Imports from iTunes. We need more details on this, but Microsoft pledges to make it easy to transfer your existing playlist to Zune - with the important caveat “as permitted by the online service from which it was purchased”. We were surprised to see it highlighted in the Zune fact sheets, and are interested in how it can be pulled off without better cooperation from other online music stores.
http://www.Zunerama.com
September 14th, 2006 at 10:18 am
I do like and respect Apple. OSX is a good OS, I think most people would agree to that. But thats copied and ripped off from the BSD/’nux community.
Lets be honest, its the nature of the industry. We can argue that just about everything has been copied from IBM
September 14th, 2006 at 10:21 am
Microsoft only copies Apple, You can see some of theme in vista!
September 14th, 2006 at 10:33 am
Apple copies from Microsoft… if you repeat that 100X you will believe it’s true.
You can always count on an OS war to generate cheap hits.
September 14th, 2006 at 10:36 am
Compare Windows Media Player 11 with iTunes 7:
http://blogs.dasmirnov.net/paul/2006/09/13/apple_itunes_copying_microsoft_again
September 14th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Hey look at this “new and innovative product” from Microsoft…
New Microsoft mice copy OS X’s Expose
http://www.apcstart.com/site/dflynn/2006/09/1430/new-microsoft-mice-copy-os-xs-expose-for-xp-vista
September 14th, 2006 at 10:49 am
also from http://www.apcstart.com/site/dflynn/2006/09/1430/new-microsoft-mice-copy-os-xs-expose-for-xp-vista
“And everything, absolutely everything, is all about the “experience” — so much so that we’re served cans of lemon-lime water badged with a Windows Vista logo which is less a drink than a “revitalising refreshment experience” (okay, Barlow didn’t say that, but we know he was thinking it) (and yes, this does sorta mean that we drank the Microsoft Kool-Aid).”
How much “Microsoft Kool-Aid” did you have today, M$ fan-boys?
September 14th, 2006 at 11:26 am
So, how exactly do you stay competitve with Apple (or with Microsoft if you are Apple), if you don’t mimic certain ideas. Vista is “copying” a ton of ideas from OSX, so hows about we call it even and be grownups here and realize both companies need eachother for competition and ideas. ;)
September 14th, 2006 at 11:29 am
“Apple doesn’t just release products because “it can”, it does so when it feels the technology, user experience and market will result in a product people really WANT.”
So, the fact that the number of tablet PCs sold every year is more or less equal to the total number of Macs sold is of no consequence? Maybe you guys need to drink plain water sometimes, instead the Apple Kool-Aid. It’s not good for your health.
“plus MSFT does copy alot, wow, Apple just copied one little item and you go ballistic.”
Be honest to yourselves, guys. Apple copies ideas just as much as Microsoft does. The proof is irrefutable. Instead, you guys start coming up with irrelevant, illogical arguments. Not all Apple products are great. Not all Microsoft products suck. Microsoft and apple will continue to make billions of dollars and we won’t get anything out of it so why do we have to argue so much about something that doesn’t affect us in anyway? Accept the truth and move on. It’s not that hard.
September 14th, 2006 at 11:54 am
What product is still in beta and which product got released? How many ways can you group songs according to albums? Frankly, we don’t know who copy who in this instance because Apple DOES NOT have a public beta program for iTunes. Until then, you can cry all you want.
“It has a much bigger screen than iPod. Did they copy THAT from Apple? It has Wifi, which the iPod doesn’t have. Did they copy THAT from Apple?”
Can you copy the idea of “bigger screens” because its a natural progression of all things video is it not? The bigger the screen, the better? You don’t think Apple is not thinking of having bigger screens for iPods?? The same goes with WiFi and FM tuner …you don’t think Apple kick around those ideas for the longest time? Its a balancing act of what features to have and when to release it, if at all. I will guarantee you that Apple will release a wide screen video iPod when they are ready.
September 14th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
I think my iMac kind of blurred out all this discussion to blah blah blah professional jealousy rampant blah blah blah- but then it could just be me… Was this pro-microsoft, or advertising Apple? *picks fingernails*
September 14th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
The whole Zune-as-an-iPod-competitor argument died today when it was formally announced that one of the three colors was brown. Brown. Let me repeat that: a consumer electronics device, positioned against the largely lauded styling of the iPod, is being delivered in brown. Name the last successful CE device that shipped in brown. I suspect the brown color will only serve as a convenient way to draw a comparison between Zune and the iPod.
September 14th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
How can you say that apple is copying windows. Windows sucks really bad. Look at how long it takes to load compared to a mac.
Look at the fact that on a pc you need antispyware programs and anti virus, does a mac? NO!!!!
All you guys that lick MS ass just truly suck, all you are doing is paying for a cheap and crap system that crashes and is prone to viruses! Good luck!
And for all you people “really” excited about Vista, Vista is a copy of APPLE’s OS X, that was brought out in 2000. Apple is always at the forefront of technology.
September 14th, 2006 at 12:50 pm
thats true. apple has copied mirosoft’s media center. i dont understand why ppl bash microsoft for copying apple. when apple does something similiar ppl rush to defend them.
September 14th, 2006 at 12:53 pm
hehehe go on Scoble :)
September 14th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
“The whole Zune-as-an-iPod-competitor argument died today when it was formally announced that one of the three colors was brown. Brown. Let me repeat that: a consumer electronics device, positioned against the largely lauded styling of the iPod, is being delivered in brown. Name the last successful CE device that shipped in brown. I suspect the brown color will only serve as a convenient way to draw a comparison between Zune and the iPod.”
I suspect Microsoft is going after the UPS workers demographic.
September 14th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
So as I watched the Steve Jobs presentation at http://www.pvrwire.com/2006/09/13/video-of-the-apple-itv-unveiled-at-apple-s-its-showtime-event/ I was mentally substituting things like Cinema Now/MovieLink for ITunes movies, then MCE instead of a Mac, PMC and other video capable mobile devices like Pocket PCs etc for the IPod, MCX for the new “box” to connect the computer to the TV. As I substituted these I saw it being delivered via a PowerPoint onstage……….
Oh yeah I actually did see that…. Something like 2+ years ago ;-) and its been running in my house with a lot more functionality for a number of years (I have 5 extender boxes hooked up to my Media Center and all can watch downloaded movies, music pics, family video, and oh yeah live and recorded TV which I can synch to my portables for free) I wrote up a little rant on this at http://www.pvrwire.com/2006/09/13/video-of-the-apple-itv-unveiled-at-apple-s-its-showtime-event/ highlighting how we are already way beyond this.
I am sure that when Apple does release all this it will be made well, work well, and be a very good stack of products for consumers, they excel at doing that. But is it innovative, new, or even improved? Hardly.
September 14th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Oops… my rant is not the Steve video (he is admittedly better looking than me and a much better speaker) My rant I cited is here http://www.mikeysgblog.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=262
September 14th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
Microsoft nearly always copies Apple in hardware and software (including OS).
I will be writing some on issues like this on my blog.
~clearthought
http://cafzal.blogspot.com/
September 14th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
“Microsoft is the new Xerox” - that’s *priceless*.
You do know that Xerox - through their PARC - invented just about every feature of modern-day personal computing, don’t you?
PS who gives a monkey who “copies” who. I guess everyone copied Mercedes with the car. Or the Wright Bros with the aeroplane.
I just want the best stuff.
September 14th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
I’m with Dan!
Besides, whats a good bar without a good cover (copy) band ;-)
September 14th, 2006 at 2:41 pm
Both Microsoft and Apple have being copying the linux aesthetics for the last years. And not only that… Actually, Apple copied the whole operating system ;-)
Anyway, both companies will disapear soon, so there is no point in worrying about them.
September 14th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
I’ve used PC’s forever - and now I use Macs cause they’re better. And they had to be tons better for me to consider switching.. Because it was a pain to switch. Their push w/iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto did it for me.
Now I’ve been using iPods a while - and I’m mostly satisfied.
But.. if Microsoft can figure out DRM correctly (I like Apple’s system), offer it for less, and port their software to the Mac I’d consider trying it - but only if it cost significantly less. That’s the problem every challenger faces - they have to be so much better than the incumbent that it’s worthwhile to switch. Did Microsoft make it with Zune? No, not for me.
I like them in the market though. A good challenger may improve the pace of progress at Apple. And hopefully keep prices down. Of course in the short term, Zune is the one who’s been undercut on price.. I think Msoft should drop $ to $199 - that would generate some good demand. They’ll have to make up the losses on Zune v2.. just my 2 cents
September 14th, 2006 at 3:07 pm
“What’s next, a Tablet PC copy?”
Nope. A tablet Mac that works like it’s supposed to.