The suits vs. the geeks

October 4, 2006 By

I’m sitting with a bunch of suits right now. It’s the Savvis Web 2.0 conference. Almost all men. A large percentage of whom are older than me. This is NOT the YouTube generation. Although they sure talk about it and talk about MySpace (one speaker suggested that everyone should have a MySpace page for each of their products).

It’s interesting to see the difference between this audience and the folks who showed up at the Podcasting Expo last week. There was a lot more energy there. But a lot less money and power. This room reeks of power. That room reeked of creativity and fun.

I’m seeing this “geek vs. suits” separation more often lately.

Yesterday I went to lunch at a country club over on Sand Hill Road. They wouldn’t let me in because I was wearing jeans. “Excuse me?” I said in my head. After all, it was people in jeans (denim, they called it) who made the products and services that made all those VCs so rich that they could have a private club to hang out at and play golf at.

They made me sit outside for lunch. Which was just fine. My host (who helped fund the country club) and I had a good laugh about that.

It reminded me of the time when I worked the counter at LZ Premiums in San Jose. A guy came in with ratty jeans and a T-shirt. I treated him the same way I treated all the suits that came in. He noted that and bought a nice camera system. Later, after he kept coming back in and buying a lot of stuff, I learned he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Said that I was the first sales guy who treated him well, which is why he brought his business back to me.

Last night I saw it again. I wore my standard jeans and T-shirt to a press meeting hosted by Become.com (a cool shopping search engine, they released a research report that found that people liked their shopping search engine better than Google). Everyone else was dressed up.

I’m gonna put my jeans on and hang out with the geeks this weekend at Code-Camp in Silicon Valley. No Beck, but no suits either.

The real action in the valley is still with the folks who wear jeans and T-shirts. No matter how much all the suits try to avoid that.

When did Silicon Valley go all suity on me? It’s certainly a sign that we’re back in a bubble. In 2001 when everyone was unemployed I rarely saw suits. Now that the money is back I’m seeing a lot more suits.

Not a good sign.

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  • http://workerbeesblog.blogspot.com/ Elisa Camahort

    Wow, I had the exact opposite reaction of Sam Simon.

    A few years back at the peak of my corporate, well-paid, pre-bootstrapping start-up days I wanted to get a new car. I went to all the dealers: BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc. etc. etc.

    BMW, without question, treated me the worst, and I gave them three chances. Each time they were condescending, dismissive, rude.

    My mother asked me, “Well, how were you dressed?” The answer is: in sweats and a pony tail, but the bigger answer was: I don’t feel I should have to dress up to “let” someone sell me a 40K car.

    I will never ever buy a BMW.

    The thought that in Silicon Valley they couldn’t realize that I might just be able to pull out my checkbook and drive off the lot with that car fully paid astounded me.

    The two most respectful dealers? Respectful about talking to me, not my boyfriend. Respectful about my desire for no leather interiors because I’m a vegan. Respectful enough to talk horsepower and engine size, not vanity mirrors. For me it was Audi and Volvo. I got the Audi.

  • http://workerbeesblog.blogspot.com Elisa Camahort

    Wow, I had the exact opposite reaction of Sam Simon.

    A few years back at the peak of my corporate, well-paid, pre-bootstrapping start-up days I wanted to get a new car. I went to all the dealers: BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc. etc. etc.

    BMW, without question, treated me the worst, and I gave them three chances. Each time they were condescending, dismissive, rude.

    My mother asked me, “Well, how were you dressed?” The answer is: in sweats and a pony tail, but the bigger answer was: I don’t feel I should have to dress up to “let” someone sell me a 40K car.

    I will never ever buy a BMW.

    The thought that in Silicon Valley they couldn’t realize that I might just be able to pull out my checkbook and drive off the lot with that car fully paid astounded me.

    The two most respectful dealers? Respectful about talking to me, not my boyfriend. Respectful about my desire for no leather interiors because I’m a vegan. Respectful enough to talk horsepower and engine size, not vanity mirrors. For me it was Audi and Volvo. I got the Audi.

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  • http://theinandouts.wordpress.com/ theinandouts

    Not a good sign. What kind of jeans were you wearing though? Hope they were the IN kind. Cheers!

  • http://theinandouts.wordpress.com/ theinandouts

    Not a good sign. What kind of jeans were you wearing though? Hope they were the IN kind. Cheers!

  • http://theinandouts.wordpress.com/ theinandouts

    Not a good sign. What kind of jeans were you wearing though? Hope they were the IN kind. Cheers!

  • http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ Matt Cutts

    Many thanks, Aram. Interesting results once people selected their own products; I’ll have to dig into it more. I wish the research report had the raw ratings.

  • http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ Matt Cutts

    Many thanks, Aram. Interesting results once people selected their own products; I’ll have to dig into it more. I wish the research report had the raw ratings.

  • http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/ Matt Cutts

    Many thanks, Aram. Interesting results once people selected their own products; I’ll have to dig into it more. I wish the research report had the raw ratings.

  • http://thomashawk.com/ Thomas Hawk

    Don’t feel bad Robert. I was the only person in jeans and a t-shirt at the fancy GigaOm / Xing party on Monday night.

    Of course the t-shirt was black.

    And it did say diggnation on it.

    so I kind of felt like I was dressing up for the party.

    T-Shirt and jeans are great. You still can’t wear them to a country club though.

  • http://thomashawk.com/ Thomas Hawk

    Don’t feel bad Robert. I was the only person in jeans and a t-shirt at the fancy GigaOm / Xing party on Monday night.

    Of course the t-shirt was black.

    And it did say diggnation on it.

    so I kind of felt like I was dressing up for the party.

    T-Shirt and jeans are great. You still can’t wear them to a country club though.

  • http://thomashawk.com Thomas Hawk

    Don’t feel bad Robert. I was the only person in jeans and a t-shirt at the fancy GigaOm / Xing party on Monday night.

    Of course the t-shirt was black.

    And it did say diggnation on it.

    so I kind of felt like I was dressing up for the party.

    T-Shirt and jeans are great. You still can’t wear them to a country club though.

  • http://www.bladam.com/ Adam

    I see arguments on all sides here :) .

    I greatly appreciate being both allowed to and not disrespected for wearing *comfortable* (for me) and not-fancy clothing at work.

    With that said, though, I lament what I perceive to be the lack of class of people who wear ripped jeans and grimy t-shirts to the symphony. I miss the days (boy I’m sounding old!) when people *dressed up* to go to a nice restaurant or to the theatre. Doesn’t have to be a nice suit… but I’m talking about cleanliness, some pride in one’s appearance, etc.

  • http://www.bladam.com/ Adam

    I see arguments on all sides here :) .

    I greatly appreciate being both allowed to and not disrespected for wearing *comfortable* (for me) and not-fancy clothing at work.

    With that said, though, I lament what I perceive to be the lack of class of people who wear ripped jeans and grimy t-shirts to the symphony. I miss the days (boy I’m sounding old!) when people *dressed up* to go to a nice restaurant or to the theatre. Doesn’t have to be a nice suit… but I’m talking about cleanliness, some pride in one’s appearance, etc.

  • http://www.bladam.com/ Adam

    I see arguments on all sides here :) .

    I greatly appreciate being both allowed to and not disrespected for wearing *comfortable* (for me) and not-fancy clothing at work.

    With that said, though, I lament what I perceive to be the lack of class of people who wear ripped jeans and grimy t-shirts to the symphony. I miss the days (boy I’m sounding old!) when people *dressed up* to go to a nice restaurant or to the theatre. Doesn’t have to be a nice suit… but I’m talking about cleanliness, some pride in one’s appearance, etc.

  • LayZ

    “sitting with a bunch of suits” WTF? Are we in the 60′s now?

  • LayZ

    “sitting with a bunch of suits” WTF? Are we in the 60′s now?

  • LayZ

    “sitting with a bunch of suits” WTF? Are we in the 60′s now?

  • http://www.nigelcooke.com/ monkeyleader

    I was once sitting in a bar most of the afternoon with friends, just chilling, few drinks, plenty of laughs. Then at 7pm the bar manager came over and asked me to leave as I was wearing jeans – they were happy to take my jeans wearing business before 7pm.

    You can image – monkey wasn’t best pleased !

    Nige

    PS: oh the bar, Henrys in Cambridge, UK !

  • http://www.nigelcooke.com/ monkeyleader

    I was once sitting in a bar most of the afternoon with friends, just chilling, few drinks, plenty of laughs. Then at 7pm the bar manager came over and asked me to leave as I was wearing jeans – they were happy to take my jeans wearing business before 7pm.

    You can image – monkey wasn’t best pleased !

    Nige

    PS: oh the bar, Henrys in Cambridge, UK !

  • http://www.nigelcooke.com monkeyleader

    I was once sitting in a bar most of the afternoon with friends, just chilling, few drinks, plenty of laughs. Then at 7pm the bar manager came over and asked me to leave as I was wearing jeans – they were happy to take my jeans wearing business before 7pm.

    You can image – monkey wasn’t best pleased !

    Nige

    PS: oh the bar, Henrys in Cambridge, UK !

  • LayZ

    Queue that one hit wonder song from the 70′s

    “Signs” by the 5 Man Electrical Band. Did you write that song, Scoble:

    “Now, hey you, mister, can’t you read?
    You’ve got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
    You can’t even watch, no you can’t eat
    You ain’t supposed to be here
    The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
    Ugh!”

    Right on, Man! Power to the People! Stick it to the Man!
    (for the clueless, that was sarcasm)

    Scoble I’m guessing you wouldn’t have the first clue about how to get a good suit, shirt or shoes made? Sad, really.

  • LayZ

    Queue that one hit wonder song from the 70′s

    “Signs” by the 5 Man Electrical Band. Did you write that song, Scoble:

    “Now, hey you, mister, can’t you read?
    You’ve got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
    You can’t even watch, no you can’t eat
    You ain’t supposed to be here
    The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
    Ugh!”

    Right on, Man! Power to the People! Stick it to the Man!
    (for the clueless, that was sarcasm)

    Scoble I’m guessing you wouldn’t have the first clue about how to get a good suit, shirt or shoes made? Sad, really.

  • LayZ

    Queue that one hit wonder song from the 70′s

    “Signs” by the 5 Man Electrical Band. Did you write that song, Scoble:

    “Now, hey you, mister, can’t you read?
    You’ve got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
    You can’t even watch, no you can’t eat
    You ain’t supposed to be here
    The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
    Ugh!”

    Right on, Man! Power to the People! Stick it to the Man!
    (for the clueless, that was sarcasm)

    Scoble I’m guessing you wouldn’t have the first clue about how to get a good suit, shirt or shoes made? Sad, really.

  • LayZ

    “For the people criticizing Robert for making the “suits vs geeks” comparison, wearing suits is one thing, but he’s right – people in high tech industries wearing suits are generally clueless about the most up to date technology. It’s just a fact. I’ve been in this industry for 15 years and 95% of the suits I’ve met have been behind the times from a “what should we do with technology” creative standpoint. It’s just not in their souls.”

    Geez, dude. Generalize much? What’s next? All Asians are good a math? All blacks are good at sports? All people from India are computer geeks? All white people from the south are redneck racists?

    Your 95% surely hasn’t been that broad of a spectrum. I’m guessing you spent no significant amount of timetime in Japan (you, either Scoble) in London at Docklands, or a lot of other places where wearing suits to your job is almost a cultural requirement. But you and Scoble go on living in your shortsighted world.

    Put a suit on once or twice. You’d be surprised at how well it works.

  • LayZ

    “For the people criticizing Robert for making the “suits vs geeks” comparison, wearing suits is one thing, but he’s right – people in high tech industries wearing suits are generally clueless about the most up to date technology. It’s just a fact. I’ve been in this industry for 15 years and 95% of the suits I’ve met have been behind the times from a “what should we do with technology” creative standpoint. It’s just not in their souls.”

    Geez, dude. Generalize much? What’s next? All Asians are good a math? All blacks are good at sports? All people from India are computer geeks? All white people from the south are redneck racists?

    Your 95% surely hasn’t been that broad of a spectrum. I’m guessing you spent no significant amount of timetime in Japan (you, either Scoble) in London at Docklands, or a lot of other places where wearing suits to your job is almost a cultural requirement. But you and Scoble go on living in your shortsighted world.

    Put a suit on once or twice. You’d be surprised at how well it works.

  • LayZ

    “For the people criticizing Robert for making the “suits vs geeks” comparison, wearing suits is one thing, but he’s right – people in high tech industries wearing suits are generally clueless about the most up to date technology. It’s just a fact. I’ve been in this industry for 15 years and 95% of the suits I’ve met have been behind the times from a “what should we do with technology” creative standpoint. It’s just not in their souls.”

    Geez, dude. Generalize much? What’s next? All Asians are good a math? All blacks are good at sports? All people from India are computer geeks? All white people from the south are redneck racists?

    Your 95% surely hasn’t been that broad of a spectrum. I’m guessing you spent no significant amount of timetime in Japan (you, either Scoble) in London at Docklands, or a lot of other places where wearing suits to your job is almost a cultural requirement. But you and Scoble go on living in your shortsighted world.

    Put a suit on once or twice. You’d be surprised at how well it works.

  • LayZ

    Elisa, I’m guessing that unfortunately your experience was not because of how you were dressed, but because of something you have no control over.. your gender. I once did an experiment.. my wife showed up at a Mercedes dealership dressed in a smart business suit. She came in alone. I came in after her dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. I got helped before she did.

  • LayZ

    Elisa, I’m guessing that unfortunately your experience was not because of how you were dressed, but because of something you have no control over.. your gender. I once did an experiment.. my wife showed up at a Mercedes dealership dressed in a smart business suit. She came in alone. I came in after her dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. I got helped before she did.

  • LayZ

    Elisa, I’m guessing that unfortunately your experience was not because of how you were dressed, but because of something you have no control over.. your gender. I once did an experiment.. my wife showed up at a Mercedes dealership dressed in a smart business suit. She came in alone. I came in after her dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. I got helped before she did.

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  • http://workerbeesblog.blogspot.com/ Elisa Camahort

    LayZ: Sigh. You’re probably right. Although I will say the Mercedes guy was much more receptive to me than the BMW guy.

    Adam: I do almost agree on people now not dressing up ever. BTW: Remember when air travel was something one dressed *up* for? OK, some of you may not be old enough to remember that, but it’s true!

  • http://workerbeesblog.blogspot.com/ Elisa Camahort

    LayZ: Sigh. You’re probably right. Although I will say the Mercedes guy was much more receptive to me than the BMW guy.

    Adam: I do almost agree on people now not dressing up ever. BTW: Remember when air travel was something one dressed *up* for? OK, some of you may not be old enough to remember that, but it’s true!

  • http://workerbeesblog.blogspot.com Elisa Camahort

    LayZ: Sigh. You’re probably right. Although I will say the Mercedes guy was much more receptive to me than the BMW guy.

    Adam: I do almost agree on people now not dressing up ever. BTW: Remember when air travel was something one dressed *up* for? OK, some of you may not be old enough to remember that, but it’s true!

  • Christopher Coulter

    LOOK OVER THERE! A guy in a SUIT. Gasp. The horrrror, the scourage, the sheeeeer inhumanity. Go beat him up! Put the fear of God in him, and jeans on him.

    Maybe the geeks can start a Suit Liberational Front movement, dumping paint on suits over just fur coats. And stage protests and firebombings at Macy’s and Men’s Wearhouse’s.

  • Christopher Coulter

    LOOK OVER THERE! A guy in a SUIT. Gasp. The horrrror, the scourage, the sheeeeer inhumanity. Go beat him up! Put the fear of God in him, and jeans on him.

    Maybe the geeks can start a Suit Liberational Front movement, dumping paint on suits over just fur coats. And stage protests and firebombings at Macy’s and Men’s Wearhouse’s.

  • Christopher Coulter

    LOOK OVER THERE! A guy in a SUIT. Gasp. The horrrror, the scourage, the sheeeeer inhumanity. Go beat him up! Put the fear of God in him, and jeans on him.

    Maybe the geeks can start a Suit Liberational Front movement, dumping paint on suits over just fur coats. And stage protests and firebombings at Macy’s and Men’s Wearhouse’s.

  • LayZ

    This just in. Head of MS Resarch and Strategy wears a suit!! Guess he’s a pretender.
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/craig/default.mspx

  • LayZ

    This just in. Head of MS Resarch and Strategy wears a suit!! Guess he’s a pretender.
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/craig/default.mspx

  • LayZ

    This just in. Head of MS Resarch and Strategy wears a suit!! Guess he’s a pretender.
    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/craig/default.mspx

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  • http://www.geekgap.com/ Billbeau

    And this chasm between the suits and the geeks is precisely why we wrote the book “The Geek Gap.” I don’t generally do this sort of shameless promo, but this post was just begging me to comment. ;-)

  • http://www.geekgap.com/ Billbeau

    And this chasm between the suits and the geeks is precisely why we wrote the book “The Geek Gap.” I don’t generally do this sort of shameless promo, but this post was just begging me to comment. ;-)

  • http://www.geekgap.com Billbeau

    And this chasm between the suits and the geeks is precisely why we wrote the book “The Geek Gap.” I don’t generally do this sort of shameless promo, but this post was just begging me to comment. ;-)

  • http://sadbastards.wordpress.com/ Mic

    I’m glad u mentioned The Geek Gap. I’ll check it out. And it’s why I started a blog called GeekWhisperer.wordpress.com. There is a communications breakdown between the suits and the geeks.

  • http://sadbastards.wordpress.com/ Mic

    I’m glad u mentioned The Geek Gap. I’ll check it out. And it’s why I started a blog called GeekWhisperer.wordpress.com. There is a communications breakdown between the suits and the geeks.

  • http://sadbastards.wordpress.com/ Mic

    I’m glad u mentioned The Geek Gap. I’ll check it out. And it’s why I started a blog called GeekWhisperer.wordpress.com. There is a communications breakdown between the suits and the geeks.

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  • Jonathan Mason

    But jeans are not particularly comfortable. I live in a fairly hot part of the US, and though I have jeans and sometimes wear them for yardwork etc., lightweight slacks are much more comfortable for general wear and indoors.

    T-shirts don’t look good on most people either. They don’t stay ironed, and quickly lose their shape.

    It seems to me much more that wearing jeans for indoor work is a cultural and fashion statement that shows that the person concerned is actually very concerned about how they are perceived by others.

    The problem with wearing suits, on the other hand, is that they cost a lot to buy initially, and require expensive dry cleaning. Additionally, the accessories like shoes, shirts, and ties may also be expensive.

    Either way, jeans and T-shirt or business suit are both uniforms, and the important thing is to know what you need to wear or not wear to be acceptable in whatever work environment you operate. If you dress in such a way that you alienate others, then clearly you are dysfunctional in that setting.

  • Jonathan Mason

    But jeans are not particularly comfortable. I live in a fairly hot part of the US, and though I have jeans and sometimes wear them for yardwork etc., lightweight slacks are much more comfortable for general wear and indoors.

    T-shirts don’t look good on most people either. They don’t stay ironed, and quickly lose their shape.

    It seems to me much more that wearing jeans for indoor work is a cultural and fashion statement that shows that the person concerned is actually very concerned about how they are perceived by others.

    The problem with wearing suits, on the other hand, is that they cost a lot to buy initially, and require expensive dry cleaning. Additionally, the accessories like shoes, shirts, and ties may also be expensive.

    Either way, jeans and T-shirt or business suit are both uniforms, and the important thing is to know what you need to wear or not wear to be acceptable in whatever work environment you operate. If you dress in such a way that you alienate others, then clearly you are dysfunctional in that setting.

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