Internet video business challenges

I’m going to be going to see John Battelle this afternoon (he runs the blogging advertising network, Federated Media) and I’m going to ask him about the challenges of making an Internet content business work.

Here’s the trouble. Most people I know are getting advertising revenues of between $10 and $40 CPM. That means that for every 1,000 people who visit a Web site, an advertiser is paying somewhere around $10 usually (often less, and in some cases, far less — Jeremy Wright told me he was only getting about $.50 CPM when he runs Google’s ad bar).

Now, that sounds great, particularly if you can get a big audience and when you write a blog that has minimum creation costs (yeah, some posts take hours, but others can be done in minutes and you don’t need anything but a computer to do this). That low cost of production is why Jason Calacanis was able to create $25 million in value by lashing together 100 bloggers. But, let’s look deeper at video.

First, the videos I’m putting up are around 200MB a piece. The bandwidth distributors I know are charging $.14 or more PER GIGABYTE to distribute those videos. So, that comes to $28, or more for 1,000 downloads (if my math is right).

Wait a second here. We’re going to collect $10 in advertising to pay $28 in bandwidth? Who said video is a great business? We’re losing money, but I’m sure we’ll make it up in quantity. Heheh.

But we haven’t even covered our labor costs. Heck, yesterday’s lunch session had three of us working on it for an hour, then Eddie encoded it, edited it, and published it. That took him four more hours. Let’s assume you can get smart people to work for you for $30 an hour to do video. That right there is $90 just to shoot for an hour, plus another $120 for editing and publishing. $210 in fixed costs just to start, then the bandwidth. And you haven’t even started paying for my camera, my new Mac.

So, what’s the answer? Well, something has to give here. You’ve gotta change some of the numbers.

That’s what I’m working on. It’s also why I appreciate Seagate so much. They sponsored my show for several months and gave me some time to figure this all out.

Speaking of which, yesterday Herschel Horton asked “Are you getting paid by any of these companies for doing these interviews?”

No. The only company who has paid me money is Seagate. Anytime I run a show that an advertiser is paying me to do I’ll disclose that.

Oh, and do I think I’m going to be able to change these numbers? Yes. But it will be a challenge to putting together a network of videoblogs. Jason Calacanis didn’t have these types of distribution and content creation costs to deal with.

If Google and other advertisers can change the revenue numbers for video too, to be higher than the costs, we’ll see interesting new content created. If not, you’ll be stuck with watching kids dance.

  • http://www.messagingtimes.com/ Tom O’Leary

    Uh, sorry. I just had a brain fart. For some reason, I thought you were paying for traffic rather than getting paid for referrals.

    Who put whiskey in me tea?

    so…to flip….surely a man of your stature will command advertising revenue above $10 CPM….

    All the best

    Tom

  • http://www.messagingtimes.com Tom O’Leary

    Uh, sorry. I just had a brain fart. For some reason, I thought you were paying for traffic rather than getting paid for referrals.

    Who put whiskey in me tea?

    so…to flip….surely a man of your stature will command advertising revenue above $10 CPM….

    All the best

    Tom

  • http://www.hd.net/ mark cuban

    Robert
    I plan on downloading your videos and putthingthem on google video and youtube. You will make up all your costs with allthe free promotion and traffic they will give you :)

    If you dont like that, you can search those and other sites all day long and issue takedown notices if you can find where i post your stuff.

    Then you can sue them and maybe get a bunch of google stock !

    thats how you make money !

  • http://www.hd.net mark cuban

    Robert
    I plan on downloading your videos and putthingthem on google video and youtube. You will make up all your costs with allthe free promotion and traffic they will give you :)

    If you dont like that, you can search those and other sites all day long and issue takedown notices if you can find where i post your stuff.

    Then you can sue them and maybe get a bunch of google stock !

    thats how you make money !

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  • http://ferodynamics.com/ Ferodynamics

    Maybe check out Site5.com they are doing a special, $99 for 12 Terabytes of transfer (1/month). I don’t work for them either.

  • http://ferodynamics.com Ferodynamics

    Maybe check out Site5.com they are doing a special, $99 for 12 Terabytes of transfer (1/month). I don’t work for them either.

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  • http://andirog.blogspot.com/ Anil Gupta

    Robert,

    Mark Cuban is right on target. I will take his idea little further.

    Why not allow users who download your video to share and transfer it to other users? This way, you will not need to purchase more bandwidth to txfr video to more users.

    Figure out a way to manage digital rights so that even though video can be transferred from user to user but it can’t be played without a digital license. And the license is only distributed from your site.

    Combine the digital license with new relevant ads that get embedded with video.

    Google (someone else info, my ad) + peer-to-peer bulk data transfer (Napster, only legal) = Ad revenue + Infrastructure cost saving.

    Anil

  • http://andirog.blogspot.com Anil Gupta

    Robert,

    Mark Cuban is right on target. I will take his idea little further.

    Why not allow users who download your video to share and transfer it to other users? This way, you will not need to purchase more bandwidth to txfr video to more users.

    Figure out a way to manage digital rights so that even though video can be transferred from user to user but it can’t be played without a digital license. And the license is only distributed from your site.

    Combine the digital license with new relevant ads that get embedded with video.

    Google (someone else info, my ad) + peer-to-peer bulk data transfer (Napster, only legal) = Ad revenue + Infrastructure cost saving.

    Anil

  • http://www.thoughtsignals.com/ Mark Tosczak

    Whatever you do, I’d stay away from a “pay for content model,” like being paid fees for demos. Even if you disclose it, you’ve transformed the video into a commercial — and we’ve already got lots of those. That’s not what people want to see more of.

    It seems like it probably makes sense to do several of the things suggested above together. Lower your bandwidth costs by accepting a lower-quality video, charge a premium ad rate (which rich content like video ought to be able to command), make use of alternative distribution methods (iTunes, etc.), etc. There’s not going to be a single silver bullet.

  • http://www.thoughtsignals.com Mark Tosczak

    Whatever you do, I’d stay away from a “pay for content model,” like being paid fees for demos. Even if you disclose it, you’ve transformed the video into a commercial — and we’ve already got lots of those. That’s not what people want to see more of.

    It seems like it probably makes sense to do several of the things suggested above together. Lower your bandwidth costs by accepting a lower-quality video, charge a premium ad rate (which rich content like video ought to be able to command), make use of alternative distribution methods (iTunes, etc.), etc. There’s not going to be a single silver bullet.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    MarkT: I doubt I’d do that. Although the Demo Conference certainly is quite profitable and they do exactly that, albeit in a conference setting.

    Anil: using BitTorrent or other P2P distribution schemes (RedSwoosh) is very interesting to me. I’m definitely looking into those.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    MarkT: I doubt I’d do that. Although the Demo Conference certainly is quite profitable and they do exactly that, albeit in a conference setting.

    Anil: using BitTorrent or other P2P distribution schemes (RedSwoosh) is very interesting to me. I’m definitely looking into those.

  • Christopher Coulter

    @28. Good one…assuming that’s the real Mark Cuban, even if not, still a good model. Heh. =)

    Sponsorship, placements are more the role, strict advertising is on wane, even in things TV.

    Maybe sell a Scoble Show DVD? For the busy biz types…

  • Christopher Coulter

    @28. Good one…assuming that’s the real Mark Cuban, even if not, still a good model. Heh. =)

    Sponsorship, placements are more the role, strict advertising is on wane, even in things TV.

    Maybe sell a Scoble Show DVD? For the busy biz types…

  • http://poetslife.blogspot.com/ Bruce Curley

    CPM?

  • anand

    hmm I remember the late 90′s when everyone used to start a website to sell something, just to end up a loser. The same thing is happening all over again. Many companies have already been sold in ebay. Dig into techcruch if you want for more info :-) . The same might apply to you if you dont act soon. I would suggest you probably sign a deal with microsoft or with youtube aka google. And host your video in Youtube or soapbox. Get a fair chunk of their ad revenue. Bittorrents likely wont work, as my “Gut” says that most of your website viewers, surf during office hours/univ hours. Who will want to read such stuff at house :) In both places p2p/bittorrents are usually blocked… and last make the videos more interesting. I for sure am not interesting in hearing an interview about your safari, or a definitely loss website like flock or the jaljah or something your wrote about yesterday. More interviews with real companies like Microsoft, google, yahoo, myspace etc. I mean atleast to start with you need big brand names to get you popular.

  • anand

    hmm I remember the late 90′s when everyone used to start a website to sell something, just to end up a loser. The same thing is happening all over again. Many companies have already been sold in ebay. Dig into techcruch if you want for more info :-) . The same might apply to you if you dont act soon. I would suggest you probably sign a deal with microsoft or with youtube aka google. And host your video in Youtube or soapbox. Get a fair chunk of their ad revenue. Bittorrents likely wont work, as my “Gut” says that most of your website viewers, surf during office hours/univ hours. Who will want to read such stuff at house :) In both places p2p/bittorrents are usually blocked… and last make the videos more interesting. I for sure am not interesting in hearing an interview about your safari, or a definitely loss website like flock or the jaljah or something your wrote about yesterday. More interviews with real companies like Microsoft, google, yahoo, myspace etc. I mean atleast to start with you need big brand names to get you popular.

  • http://poetslife.blogspot.com Bruce Curley

    CPM?

  • http://www.rawvoice.com/ Todd Cocharane

    Robert

    Having been working advertising deals for video and audio for over a year now. What we are finding that even though the audiences are highly targeted and the content is really good many advertisers cannot get their brains unwrapped from the Radio and TV pay models.

    It is generally pretty straight forward to get at least a $20.00 CPM but it is really tough to break above the $35.00 CPM rate. Those that are telling you they are getting higher than $35.00 on a consistent basis are in the minority.

    My experience has been even when I have proposed flat rate deals the vendor always wants full blown demographic work ups, and also total viewership which they end up doing some second grade math on to come up with a Cost Per View. Then they model that into standard Cost Per Acquisition models. You can better believe the manager that signs that advertiisng insertion order is going to have scrutinized the potential return, and you are not going to get a sponsorship amount higher than their CPA models allow for if that is their business.

    Suggestion you should take all of your video and produce a seperate audio only track and put that on a seperate feed. I think you may be suprised on the download number comparison. My stats show a nearly 20 to 1 ratio aka Audio gets downloaded 20 times more than the video does.

    Some will contest this but I have a pretty wide spread of data to back that up. Most of us are working, and driving to work. Most do not have time at work unless you want to get fired nor in thier busy lives to dedicate attention to watching a long video, short clips 2-3 minutes sure but long videos no way. I would rather listen to the audio only while in the car and stuck in traffic.

    The solution for you at this point it two fold compress the heck out of the video and go to a lower resolution and create a seperate Audio only clip.

    Next join me in encouraging developers to incorporate BitTorrent in all automated download applications like Juice, or develop a new integrated rss aware download application that has BitTorrent built in natively that will help reduce the bandwidth cost.

    Todd..

  • http://www.rawvoice.com/ Todd Cocharane

    Robert

    Having been working advertising deals for video and audio for over a year now. What we are finding that even though the audiences are highly targeted and the content is really good many advertisers cannot get their brains unwrapped from the Radio and TV pay models.

    It is generally pretty straight forward to get at least a $20.00 CPM but it is really tough to break above the $35.00 CPM rate. Those that are telling you they are getting higher than $35.00 on a consistent basis are in the minority.

    My experience has been even when I have proposed flat rate deals the vendor always wants full blown demographic work ups, and also total viewership which they end up doing some second grade math on to come up with a Cost Per View. Then they model that into standard Cost Per Acquisition models. You can better believe the manager that signs that advertiisng insertion order is going to have scrutinized the potential return, and you are not going to get a sponsorship amount higher than their CPA models allow for if that is their business.

    Suggestion you should take all of your video and produce a seperate audio only track and put that on a seperate feed. I think you may be suprised on the download number comparison. My stats show a nearly 20 to 1 ratio aka Audio gets downloaded 20 times more than the video does.

    Some will contest this but I have a pretty wide spread of data to back that up. Most of us are working, and driving to work. Most do not have time at work unless you want to get fired nor in thier busy lives to dedicate attention to watching a long video, short clips 2-3 minutes sure but long videos no way. I would rather listen to the audio only while in the car and stuck in traffic.

    The solution for you at this point it two fold compress the heck out of the video and go to a lower resolution and create a seperate Audio only clip.

    Next join me in encouraging developers to incorporate BitTorrent in all automated download applications like Juice, or develop a new integrated rss aware download application that has BitTorrent built in natively that will help reduce the bandwidth cost.

    Todd..

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Bruce: CPM means Cost Per Thousand viewers.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Bruce: CPM means Cost Per Thousand viewers.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Christopher: that was the real Mark Cuban. He told us basically the same thing the other day at lunch.

    Todd: I’m definitely working on an audio-only version.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Christopher: that was the real Mark Cuban. He told us basically the same thing the other day at lunch.

    Todd: I’m definitely working on an audio-only version.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    anand: the same thing is NOT happening again. Even the “failures” like Kiko sold on eBay for a few hundred thousand dollars. You do realize that represents a pretty sizeable profit, don’t you?

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    anand: the same thing is NOT happening again. Even the “failures” like Kiko sold on eBay for a few hundred thousand dollars. You do realize that represents a pretty sizeable profit, don’t you?

  • LayZ

    40. Cuban made a number of points in his post that he didn’t blantantly call out. Scoble, I’m not sure you completely understand the point he was making. Hopefully he explained things to you the way Joe Miller wanted Andrew Beckett to explain things to him

  • LayZ

    40. Cuban made a number of points in his post that he didn’t blantantly call out. Scoble, I’m not sure you completely understand the point he was making. Hopefully he explained things to you the way Joe Miller wanted Andrew Beckett to explain things to him

  • LayZ

    @24 Well, hopefully at some point your hubris will start paying for itself. Because I’m guessing most investors would be asking the same questions mdoeff is asking. I mean, afterall, it’s not like you’re producing a major motion picture. We’ve all seen the quality of the videos they are turning out. At the moment it appears you are not getting what you are paying for.

  • LayZ

    @24 Well, hopefully at some point your hubris will start paying for itself. Because I’m guessing most investors would be asking the same questions mdoeff is asking. I mean, afterall, it’s not like you’re producing a major motion picture. We’ve all seen the quality of the videos they are turning out. At the moment it appears you are not getting what you are paying for.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    >Scoble, I’m not sure you completely understand the point he was making.

    I understand perfectly, but why don’t you educate me anyway. Seems you like to do that.

    >>We’ve all seen the quality of the videos they are turning out. At the moment it appears you are not getting what you are paying for.

    Really? It’s pretty clear you haven’t watched anything I’ve done lately.

    My show was edited by Ryanne Hodson and Jay Dedman. They, together, have written two videoblogging books and used to work for a TV station and network. And what have you done lately? What makes you an expert on what video editing talent costs?

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    >Scoble, I’m not sure you completely understand the point he was making.

    I understand perfectly, but why don’t you educate me anyway. Seems you like to do that.

    >>We’ve all seen the quality of the videos they are turning out. At the moment it appears you are not getting what you are paying for.

    Really? It’s pretty clear you haven’t watched anything I’ve done lately.

    My show was edited by Ryanne Hodson and Jay Dedman. They, together, have written two videoblogging books and used to work for a TV station and network. And what have you done lately? What makes you an expert on what video editing talent costs?

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  • http://www.morle.net/phil/ Phil Morle

    Robert – I think you are right to look at P2P – the business model challenge you face goes away with this kind of platform. I for one am very pleased to see you distributing humungous vids over the internet instead of the bad quality flash stuff that prevails today. But you can’t argue with that as a business model either… there seems to be quite a few sites that just upload to Google and then embed to make the cost go away AND get the marketing benefit of the Google community e.g. upyourvideo.net. BTW – do trackbacks show up anywhere on your site? I blogged this post today but no trackback I can see… http://www.morle.net/phil/archives/2006/10/scobleizer_wher.html

  • http://www.morle.net/phil/ Phil Morle

    Robert – I think you are right to look at P2P – the business model challenge you face goes away with this kind of platform. I for one am very pleased to see you distributing humungous vids over the internet instead of the bad quality flash stuff that prevails today. But you can’t argue with that as a business model either… there seems to be quite a few sites that just upload to Google and then embed to make the cost go away AND get the marketing benefit of the Google community e.g. upyourvideo.net. BTW – do trackbacks show up anywhere on your site? I blogged this post today but no trackback I can see… http://www.morle.net/phil/archives/2006/10/scobleizer_wher.html

  • Dominic Jones

    Robert,

    Focus on the content, and then charge whatever you want. If it’s great content, someone will pay.

    I once worked on a newspaper that published once per week and charged more for a classified than the biggest daily charged for a full page.

    It was built on stories no one else could get because they, well, didn’t have the audience…and they didn’t have the audience because they couldn’t get the stories… greatest barrier to entry in the biz.

    You have something others don’t. Access. Use it. Go get those interviews no one else can. Then name your price and someone will pay.

    This advice is worth what you paid.

  • Dominic Jones

    Robert,

    Focus on the content, and then charge whatever you want. If it’s great content, someone will pay.

    I once worked on a newspaper that published once per week and charged more for a classified than the biggest daily charged for a full page.

    It was built on stories no one else could get because they, well, didn’t have the audience…and they didn’t have the audience because they couldn’t get the stories… greatest barrier to entry in the biz.

    You have something others don’t. Access. Use it. Go get those interviews no one else can. Then name your price and someone will pay.

    This advice is worth what you paid.

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  • http://carryfull.wordpress.com/ carryfull

    ei what a nice spot…. keep up the goo work

  • http://carryfull.wordpress.com/ carryfull

    ei what a nice spot…. keep up the goo work

  • http://techbee.wordpress.com/ techbee

    Think of the viewers: I had trouble looking at your 7 minutes video on Google lobby because not every one on earth has reliable fast internet access. Even if I had one, I don’t have 30, 40 minutes to spare to keep up with just one tech company or one demo. And I think that the challenge of extracting, at editing stage, the 10 important minutes (maximum) is not downgrading your work. On the contrary.

  • http://techbee.wordpress.com/ techbee

    Think of the viewers: I had trouble looking at your 7 minutes video on Google lobby because not every one on earth has reliable fast internet access. Even if I had one, I don’t have 30, 40 minutes to spare to keep up with just one tech company or one demo. And I think that the challenge of extracting, at editing stage, the 10 important minutes (maximum) is not downgrading your work. On the contrary.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    techbee: I’m hiring an editor who will be tasked with doing stuff like cutting down a long video into something shorter. But, that increases the costs. I can get free bandwidth right now, so it’s easier just to give you the whole video. And, my interviewing style is pretty hard to cut down to 10 minutes. I’d hate to listen to only 10 minutes of Charlie Rose, for instance.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    techbee: I’m hiring an editor who will be tasked with doing stuff like cutting down a long video into something shorter. But, that increases the costs. I can get free bandwidth right now, so it’s easier just to give you the whole video. And, my interviewing style is pretty hard to cut down to 10 minutes. I’d hate to listen to only 10 minutes of Charlie Rose, for instance.

  • LayZ

    @51. “I know Charlie Rose…and you’re no Charlie Rose”. Now, maybe Larry King…(which is not a complement)

  • LayZ

    @51. “I know Charlie Rose…and you’re no Charlie Rose”. Now, maybe Larry King…(which is not a complement)

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    LayZ: well, seeing that you’re the equivilent of a Walmart flog (you won’t use your real name, nor tell us anything about yourself, you just like being a troll here) you’ll have to excuse me when I say I don’t believe a thing you say. I’ll bet $10 that you don’t really know Charlie Rose, either.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    LayZ: well, seeing that you’re the equivilent of a Walmart flog (you won’t use your real name, nor tell us anything about yourself, you just like being a troll here) you’ll have to excuse me when I say I don’t believe a thing you say. I’ll bet $10 that you don’t really know Charlie Rose, either.