Comments

  1. All so much Cluetrain Soup for the Advertisers Soul…gawd.

    Good Manners? Do it for Good Manners? Tank shareholders money, but hey hey, we have great manners. Not g-o-n-n-a fly. Good Manners are Ben Franklin’s, signed and sealed with contracts that have lawyers signatures running up and down. Asking a company to fork over bucks as it is just “good manners” is beyond naive, it’s utopian. And no end-point in site, is going CBS over NBC, bad manners? Just throw demographics and audience targeting out the door.

    She would INSIST? Excuse me, but the advertiser INSISTS…you can lead and maybe offer suggestions, but THEY are the Advertiser, they insist, they approve, their agenda might not be yours. You don’t INSIST, you SHOW. You show that YOUR service, media outlet, video product will produce tangible and traceable results. You SHOW.

    Increased marketshare, and growth is the only reason to EVER advertise. You don’t do it for “pedestrian reasons” or plain “good manners”, that be charity. ANd you RUN AWAY from egoheads that do all the “insisting” for you.

  2. All so much Cluetrain Soup for the Advertisers Soul…gawd.

    Good Manners? Do it for Good Manners? Tank shareholders money, but hey hey, we have great manners. Not g-o-n-n-a fly. Good Manners are Ben Franklin’s, signed and sealed with contracts that have lawyers signatures running up and down. Asking a company to fork over bucks as it is just “good manners” is beyond naive, it’s utopian. And no end-point in site, is going CBS over NBC, bad manners? Just throw demographics and audience targeting out the door.

    She would INSIST? Excuse me, but the advertiser INSISTS…you can lead and maybe offer suggestions, but THEY are the Advertiser, they insist, they approve, their agenda might not be yours. You don’t INSIST, you SHOW. You show that YOUR service, media outlet, video product will produce tangible and traceable results. You SHOW.

    Increased marketshare, and growth is the only reason to EVER advertise. You don’t do it for “pedestrian reasons” or plain “good manners”, that be charity. ANd you RUN AWAY from egoheads that do all the “insisting” for you.

  3. Christopher, seems you missed the entire point of Roxanne’s article.

    The point is that most large companies don’t yet get blogging. Don’t understand what a podcast is. Don’t get or trust all this “user generated” audio/video content. Look at what Edelman and Walmart just did!

    Companies large and small are not being educated by the bloggers/podcasters they are sponsoring.

    Take Ford as cited in the example. Ford is missing a tremendous opportunity to connect with the young, educated, “mostly male” demographic that is tuning into audio/video podcasts and turning away from television and terrestrial radio.

    If a visitor to the site can even find the link to Ford (or the other sponsors) and bothers to click through, it’s not even to a special landing page on the Ford site on which additional and targeted information could be provided.
    Do a search for “Ford” in the wiki. A few lines in the FAQ and a couple of mentions but little specifically about the vehicle. We own an Escape. But not a Hybrid. I’d like to hear what the crew thinks about it. See some pictures of it in every day use as they cross the country.

    I don’t want to be “sold.” I want to learn something about a product that I’m interested in from people that I’ve become familiar with.

    Do I blame Ford for missing this opportunity? Nope. How should Ford know what it doesn’t know? Best way would be for the blogger/podcaster that is being sponsored to educate them. Provide them with ideas and training on how to use the forum and wiki. Blog a bit about the vehicle. Post some pics. And, as Roxanne wrote, find out from Ford what Ford wants the site visitors and subscribers to know about the vehicle and incorporate that into the show. Into the experience they are creating.

    Thinking that large companies know best… That that customer/client is always right… That the old model of advertising/sponsorships will continue to work… That is truly naive.

    There is one thing Christopher did get right. It is the responsibility of the blogger/podcaster to SHOW. To show the advertiser/sponsor HOW to think about the new media direction that is developing. HOW to gauge results and manage expectations. HOW to use the new social tools and networks to build open and honest relationships with their customers.

    In failing to do that, the bloggers/podcasters are not only doing a disservice to their own advertisers/sponsors, they’re doing a disservice to their fellow bloggers and podcasters. By not consulting, advising, and insisting that their advertisers think about this new media in a new way, they’re creating a situation that makes it difficult for the advertiser/sponser to actually get a return on the investment. And that makes it more difficult for all of us to get quality advertisers and sponsorships in the future.

    As to “Good Manners.” That’s something the Internet as a whole is definitely lacking these days.

  4. Christopher, seems you missed the entire point of Roxanne’s article.

    The point is that most large companies don’t yet get blogging. Don’t understand what a podcast is. Don’t get or trust all this “user generated” audio/video content. Look at what Edelman and Walmart just did!

    Companies large and small are not being educated by the bloggers/podcasters they are sponsoring.

    Take Ford as cited in the example. Ford is missing a tremendous opportunity to connect with the young, educated, “mostly male” demographic that is tuning into audio/video podcasts and turning away from television and terrestrial radio.

    If a visitor to the site can even find the link to Ford (or the other sponsors) and bothers to click through, it’s not even to a special landing page on the Ford site on which additional and targeted information could be provided.
    Do a search for “Ford” in the wiki. A few lines in the FAQ and a couple of mentions but little specifically about the vehicle. We own an Escape. But not a Hybrid. I’d like to hear what the crew thinks about it. See some pictures of it in every day use as they cross the country.

    I don’t want to be “sold.” I want to learn something about a product that I’m interested in from people that I’ve become familiar with.

    Do I blame Ford for missing this opportunity? Nope. How should Ford know what it doesn’t know? Best way would be for the blogger/podcaster that is being sponsored to educate them. Provide them with ideas and training on how to use the forum and wiki. Blog a bit about the vehicle. Post some pics. And, as Roxanne wrote, find out from Ford what Ford wants the site visitors and subscribers to know about the vehicle and incorporate that into the show. Into the experience they are creating.

    Thinking that large companies know best… That that customer/client is always right… That the old model of advertising/sponsorships will continue to work… That is truly naive.

    There is one thing Christopher did get right. It is the responsibility of the blogger/podcaster to SHOW. To show the advertiser/sponsor HOW to think about the new media direction that is developing. HOW to gauge results and manage expectations. HOW to use the new social tools and networks to build open and honest relationships with their customers.

    In failing to do that, the bloggers/podcasters are not only doing a disservice to their own advertisers/sponsors, they’re doing a disservice to their fellow bloggers and podcasters. By not consulting, advising, and insisting that their advertisers think about this new media in a new way, they’re creating a situation that makes it difficult for the advertiser/sponser to actually get a return on the investment. And that makes it more difficult for all of us to get quality advertisers and sponsorships in the future.

    As to “Good Manners.” That’s something the Internet as a whole is definitely lacking these days.

  5. Rox,

    North Shore would have been my first choice for shared space. Double pin tail. ; )

    Mr. Scoble,
    Reference yesterdays post on F wording.

    Manners are always good to have, even in the worst of environments. Swearing in technical text would be totally unacceptable in any subject except one discussing swearing (i.e. such as yours yesterday). However, in a niche V-deo pod it would be encouraged if the speaker were comfortable with the language. An example would be a V-deo cast of Infantry guys for Infantry viewing only discussing things, which only a niche may understand. There is nothing worst than the blank spots in “Yellow Bird” when sung by a Battalion of Infantrymen. It sounds foolish. However, the Infantry, in areas where children are looking on, we must yield to our “sensitive male side” and clean up our language. The same applies to a text blog. Niche market…OK, mass media…No way.

    “Tell me, Don’t Sell me!” Above all, be nice and have fun.

    #$%&@*###+
    Sorry, I stubbed my little finger going for the + key.

    If someone is sensitive to swearing, visual cues will appear or they will come right out and tell you to clean it up. Everyone slips and no one is perfect. A Blog post is too close to e-mail in that perspective.

  6. Rox,

    North Shore would have been my first choice for shared space. Double pin tail. ; )

    Mr. Scoble,
    Reference yesterdays post on F wording.

    Manners are always good to have, even in the worst of environments. Swearing in technical text would be totally unacceptable in any subject except one discussing swearing (i.e. such as yours yesterday). However, in a niche V-deo pod it would be encouraged if the speaker were comfortable with the language. An example would be a V-deo cast of Infantry guys for Infantry viewing only discussing things, which only a niche may understand. There is nothing worst than the blank spots in “Yellow Bird” when sung by a Battalion of Infantrymen. It sounds foolish. However, the Infantry, in areas where children are looking on, we must yield to our “sensitive male side” and clean up our language. The same applies to a text blog. Niche market…OK, mass media…No way.

    “Tell me, Don’t Sell me!” Above all, be nice and have fun.

    #$%&@*###+
    Sorry, I stubbed my little finger going for the + key.

    If someone is sensitive to swearing, visual cues will appear or they will come right out and tell you to clean it up. Everyone slips and no one is perfect. A Blog post is too close to e-mail in that perspective.

  7. I guess it would help some if I spelled it out, but it was my a priori assumption that the sponsor would come to a show to make money. Precisely. Of course. Didn’t realize that caveat needed to be stated.

    You don’t do it for the good manners – you let manners inform the situation to get better ROI.

    But how best to do that? That was the the starting point for my post. And yes, I would insist because I prefer sponsors see an actual ROI from working with me, rather than just throwing money around and hoping something sticks. Peer to peer means in part that advertisers and producers are on even footing. It also means that actions speak as much as money.

    I personally think companies look rather naive and clueless by sponsoring things yet having no other actual presence or participation. Makes them look like johns or wannabees on the sidelines, instead of cool players who’ve figured out how to play the game. I can’t show my best results if the sponsor won’t come down from the tower and get on the field with the rest of us.

  8. I guess it would help some if I spelled it out, but it was my a priori assumption that the sponsor would come to a show to make money. Precisely. Of course. Didn’t realize that caveat needed to be stated.

    You don’t do it for the good manners – you let manners inform the situation to get better ROI.

    But how best to do that? That was the the starting point for my post. And yes, I would insist because I prefer sponsors see an actual ROI from working with me, rather than just throwing money around and hoping something sticks. Peer to peer means in part that advertisers and producers are on even footing. It also means that actions speak as much as money.

    I personally think companies look rather naive and clueless by sponsoring things yet having no other actual presence or participation. Makes them look like johns or wannabees on the sidelines, instead of cool players who’ve figured out how to play the game. I can’t show my best results if the sponsor won’t come down from the tower and get on the field with the rest of us.

  9. @2 Shane. Ford just announced they are going to have to re-report earnings because their losses are larger than they first realized. We all know the situation wtih GM as well. Explain to me how blogging, which they appear to be doing now, is helping both these companies make money?

  10. @2 Shane. Ford just announced they are going to have to re-report earnings because their losses are larger than they first realized. We all know the situation wtih GM as well. Explain to me how blogging, which they appear to be doing now, is helping both these companies make money?

  11. sponsor won’t come down from the tower

    Maybe you need to CLIMB up. Maybe they actually have the clue, maybe they know their customers and demographics, even if it doesn’t fit squarely into your ideal “participational” box. Maybe actually, you need some education and are in fact “naive and clueless”, maybe they are serving markets outside of your blogger nose-level view, or serving global markets on many differing levels to many invisible OEM/ODM-like channels. Ever think of that? Just don’t get it? Maybe you just don’t “get them”.

    The amount of blogger hubris and arrogance, and cry-baby-like demands of attention, never cease to amaze me. But go ahead and do all the whining that “oh heavennnnnss, they jussst don’t understand me”, but to reach real communication, you have to show or prove results.

    And if a company advertises without researching or does such it in a way that doesn’t represent them in the best possible light, well consult with real professionals or get a new firm that does, toss out Edelman get Crispin or Fallon. Happens all the time, Ad Agency contracts are won and lost daily. As sooooo much Agency “next new new thing” gerbil activity that ends up being all flash and no substance, they have to look like they are doing something, justify such to client. File 95% of “viral and cutesy marketing” here. I’d rather hire some Marketing Professional help chart out the strategy, rather than having to hand feed worms to all the screaming blogger Baby Robbins. New Media is just another distributional method, with it’s own set of rules and best practices, and to quote Solomon, nothing new under the sun.

    I don’t want to be “sold.” I want to learn something about a product that I’m interested in

    Oh brother. More of that “I am smarter” arrogance. You are still being sold, just in a way that appeals to your senses. Maybe some people don’t actually want all that extra informational fluff, maybe they just want the raw facts, fast and quick. You are not the world, sorry to say. But if it makes you feel better “learn something” then.

    Start viewing the FOREST, instead of your blogger trees. Take the viewpoint of said company, only way any Ad Agency or New Mediaite will ever stay alive.

    PS – The sin of Edelman wasn’t so much the ‘fake blogs’ as it was the blatant hypocrisy and professional incompetence in thinking you can make Walmart hip.

  12. sponsor won’t come down from the tower

    Maybe you need to CLIMB up. Maybe they actually have the clue, maybe they know their customers and demographics, even if it doesn’t fit squarely into your ideal “participational” box. Maybe actually, you need some education and are in fact “naive and clueless”, maybe they are serving markets outside of your blogger nose-level view, or serving global markets on many differing levels to many invisible OEM/ODM-like channels. Ever think of that? Just don’t get it? Maybe you just don’t “get them”.

    The amount of blogger hubris and arrogance, and cry-baby-like demands of attention, never cease to amaze me. But go ahead and do all the whining that “oh heavennnnnss, they jussst don’t understand me”, but to reach real communication, you have to show or prove results.

    And if a company advertises without researching or does such it in a way that doesn’t represent them in the best possible light, well consult with real professionals or get a new firm that does, toss out Edelman get Crispin or Fallon. Happens all the time, Ad Agency contracts are won and lost daily. As sooooo much Agency “next new new thing” gerbil activity that ends up being all flash and no substance, they have to look like they are doing something, justify such to client. File 95% of “viral and cutesy marketing” here. I’d rather hire some Marketing Professional help chart out the strategy, rather than having to hand feed worms to all the screaming blogger Baby Robbins. New Media is just another distributional method, with it’s own set of rules and best practices, and to quote Solomon, nothing new under the sun.

    I don’t want to be “sold.” I want to learn something about a product that I’m interested in

    Oh brother. More of that “I am smarter” arrogance. You are still being sold, just in a way that appeals to your senses. Maybe some people don’t actually want all that extra informational fluff, maybe they just want the raw facts, fast and quick. You are not the world, sorry to say. But if it makes you feel better “learn something” then.

    Start viewing the FOREST, instead of your blogger trees. Take the viewpoint of said company, only way any Ad Agency or New Mediaite will ever stay alive.

    PS – The sin of Edelman wasn’t so much the ‘fake blogs’ as it was the blatant hypocrisy and professional incompetence in thinking you can make Walmart hip.