Apple blogger calls “bullshit” on me

Chuqui, who is was an Apple employee, has a point. Apple employees ARE allowed to blog. They just aren’t allowed to be spokespeople, as Chuqui admits. So, they don’t feel empowered to talk about anything that they are working on, as Chuqui admits. That’s completely different from what Microsoft, Sun Microsystems, Adobe, IBM, and other tech companies tell their employees.

Lots of Apple employees have told me that they want to blog about work. He says the goal should be communication, not getting credit.

Absolutely!

But what he doesn’t admit is that Google has changed everything. Now I totally expect to be able to find an employee at a company running a product group. Here’s a test.

Go to Google. Type “OneNote blog.” You’ll find Chris Pratley. He runs the team. I can tell him his product sucks in his comments.

Now, go back to Google. Type “Apple MacBook blog.” Do you find an Apple employee? No. You find a corporate page. Send an email there. Does it go to the right person? I have no idea. Certainly bloggers who’ve tried that recently due to Apple’s rebooting problems are getting unstatisfactory answers.

Anyway, you can see the difference in how Apple treats online communication in Chuqui’s post. At Adobe I see tons of blogs. At Microsoft I see tons of blogs. At IBM I see tons of blogs. At Sun I see tons of blogs.

The difference is telling.

And the fact that Chuqui thinks it’s about credit is telling too.

Oh, well, it ain’t my company.

UPDATE: Chuqui doesn’t work at Apple anymore. He did for years. I am sorry for missing that he doesn’t work there any longer.

Comments

  1. You’ve also yet to establish an actual need for blogging beyond:

    1) I like blogging, so everyone should do it.
    2) It worked at Microsoft, Adobe, and Sun, and since all companies are the same, everyone should do it.
    3) It’s the only possibly acceptable way to find out what your customers want so everyone should do it.

    1) is a personal option, 2) shows a lack of understanding that Apple is not MS, and 3) is just ridiculous.

    You’re very good at beating the blogging drum, but when it comes to hard business reasons for it, you tend to fall down.

  2. You’ve also yet to establish an actual need for blogging beyond:

    1) I like blogging, so everyone should do it.
    2) It worked at Microsoft, Adobe, and Sun, and since all companies are the same, everyone should do it.
    3) It’s the only possibly acceptable way to find out what your customers want so everyone should do it.

    1) is a personal option, 2) shows a lack of understanding that Apple is not MS, and 3) is just ridiculous.

    You’re very good at beating the blogging drum, but when it comes to hard business reasons for it, you tend to fall down.

  3. I’d rather have Apple be more open and inviting of feedback about their products than a blog. I simply don’t see the point of a blog because all it does is get comments that they probably can’t do anything about.

    The MacBU blog is infuriating because they’ve already made decisions that suck for me. I just have to accept it or stop buying. At this point, I’m going to stop buying MacOffice because OpenOffice does what I need.

  4. I’d rather have Apple be more open and inviting of feedback about their products than a blog. I simply don’t see the point of a blog because all it does is get comments that they probably can’t do anything about.

    The MacBU blog is infuriating because they’ve already made decisions that suck for me. I just have to accept it or stop buying. At this point, I’m going to stop buying MacOffice because OpenOffice does what I need.

  5. exactly. it’s their business. too bad for them and apple users. It’s their choice in the end. Who’s to tell who’s right or wrong?

  6. exactly. it’s their business. too bad for them and apple users. It’s their choice in the end. Who’s to tell who’s right or wrong?

  7. I’m in a similar situation working for a news organization. Those with editorial control can’t blog, but as a technical person I can… though not on behalf of the company or in competition etc. etc.

    I don’t think to many companies will go down the slippery slope of banning blogs (and other forms of online contact including blog comments, forum posting, newsgroups, etc) except in cases of: bias, speaking on behalf of a company, or doing something to damage the brand.

    I personally think my situation is rather fair. Some may disagree, but there is a legitimate business/ethical reason for the rule. It’s also not a blanket statement, there are exceptions for cases such as mine, where the reason for banning certain activities just don’t apply.

    I’d personally love to see Apple blog. If they followed Sun or MS’s model and provided and encouraged groups and employees to blog, I think it would dramatically improve the brand, and the products. A perfect example is the IE blog for Microsoft, and Planet Mozilla for Firefox. Both blog systems are very effective communication methods for building community among product users, and allow dev’s to keep up with users (and vice versa).

    It’s a powerful medium. But businesses do need to make sure it’s not abused by employees. I think it can be done reasonably if a company sits down and comes up with a logical policy.

    Personally, I’d like to see companies adopt software like Planet, if not to simply encourage employees to blog as a bonding/community activity. Bonus points if it’s used like a Sun, Microsoft.

  8. I’m in a similar situation working for a news organization. Those with editorial control can’t blog, but as a technical person I can… though not on behalf of the company or in competition etc. etc.

    I don’t think to many companies will go down the slippery slope of banning blogs (and other forms of online contact including blog comments, forum posting, newsgroups, etc) except in cases of: bias, speaking on behalf of a company, or doing something to damage the brand.

    I personally think my situation is rather fair. Some may disagree, but there is a legitimate business/ethical reason for the rule. It’s also not a blanket statement, there are exceptions for cases such as mine, where the reason for banning certain activities just don’t apply.

    I’d personally love to see Apple blog. If they followed Sun or MS’s model and provided and encouraged groups and employees to blog, I think it would dramatically improve the brand, and the products. A perfect example is the IE blog for Microsoft, and Planet Mozilla for Firefox. Both blog systems are very effective communication methods for building community among product users, and allow dev’s to keep up with users (and vice versa).

    It’s a powerful medium. But businesses do need to make sure it’s not abused by employees. I think it can be done reasonably if a company sits down and comes up with a logical policy.

    Personally, I’d like to see companies adopt software like Planet, if not to simply encourage employees to blog as a bonding/community activity. Bonus points if it’s used like a Sun, Microsoft.

  9. We’re having this discussion in the comments at Scripting News. There’s some question as to whether the latest software update addresses the MacBook random shutdown problem so many people are having. We’re not sure. Apple’s communicaiton on it is really slim. Yet there *is* a conversation about it on the net, it’s just that Apple isn’t part of it. This is long-term dangerous for Apple, as any political consultant will tell you. Better to be in the discussion if it’s about you.

  10. We’re having this discussion in the comments at Scripting News. There’s some question as to whether the latest software update addresses the MacBook random shutdown problem so many people are having. We’re not sure. Apple’s communicaiton on it is really slim. Yet there *is* a conversation about it on the net, it’s just that Apple isn’t part of it. This is long-term dangerous for Apple, as any political consultant will tell you. Better to be in the discussion if it’s about you.

  11. Hey Robert- This is a little off topic, but since you mentioned at the conference that you have about 800 e-mails unanswered, I thought I’d mention this suggestion here instead. Any chance you are going to put the MyBlogLog widget on your blog that shows the recent readers? I’d love to have a way to click-through to blogs of other Scobleizer readers. You’ll even get “Scobleizer community” (and for all you wondering- I do not work for MyBlogLog). Hopefully you’ll consider it!

  12. Hey Robert- This is a little off topic, but since you mentioned at the conference that you have about 800 e-mails unanswered, I thought I’d mention this suggestion here instead. Any chance you are going to put the MyBlogLog widget on your blog that shows the recent readers? I’d love to have a way to click-through to blogs of other Scobleizer readers. You’ll even get “Scobleizer community” (and for all you wondering- I do not work for MyBlogLog). Hopefully you’ll consider it!

  13. Robert,

    Chuq is not an Apple employee. You might want to throttle the river of news down a bit in order to gain a little context and get the facts straight.

  14. Robert,

    Chuq is not an Apple employee. You might want to throttle the river of news down a bit in order to gain a little context and get the facts straight.

  15. Chuq isn’t an Apple employee anymore, but he’s been blogging for a long time, and he was an Apple employee up until quite recently. So if Robert’s allowed to talk about blogging at MS, even thought he’s not a MS employee anymore, then Chuq gets the same bye.

  16. Chuq isn’t an Apple employee anymore, but he’s been blogging for a long time, and he was an Apple employee up until quite recently. So if Robert’s allowed to talk about blogging at MS, even thought he’s not a MS employee anymore, then Chuq gets the same bye.

  17. I love how Scoble and Winer will ignore this:

    “Here’s the fun part: while Scoble talks about blogging as if there is no way to communicate without it being on a blog, he completely misses the bigger picture.

    IT AIN’T ABOUT BLOGGING. It’s about communication. it’s about sharing information. It’s about solving problems. And while Scoble loves to babble about blogs (because he is, ultimately, a blogger, not a communicator), Apple employees have been out there working with the customer base.

    Wander through any of the lists.apple.com mailing lists, one of Apple’s core communication tools with their developers.”

    i.e. Anyone who wants a discourse with Apple employees can find it; the discussion simply will not be occurring with their favorite pet and primary source of income/hype, “the blog”. If you want to talk to devs, sign onto the appropriate lists. If you have a customer support issue, go to the discussion groups. Simple.

  18. I love how Scoble and Winer will ignore this:

    “Here’s the fun part: while Scoble talks about blogging as if there is no way to communicate without it being on a blog, he completely misses the bigger picture.

    IT AIN’T ABOUT BLOGGING. It’s about communication. it’s about sharing information. It’s about solving problems. And while Scoble loves to babble about blogs (because he is, ultimately, a blogger, not a communicator), Apple employees have been out there working with the customer base.

    Wander through any of the lists.apple.com mailing lists, one of Apple’s core communication tools with their developers.”

    i.e. Anyone who wants a discourse with Apple employees can find it; the discussion simply will not be occurring with their favorite pet and primary source of income/hype, “the blog”. If you want to talk to devs, sign onto the appropriate lists. If you have a customer support issue, go to the discussion groups. Simple.

  19. Wow! I decided to check out Winer’s “discussion in the comments at Scripting News”. His discussion invovles 5 comments, only 1 addressing Apple. If you scroll back through his archives, you find another post where the turn around was quick on his repar and there, there are quite a few comments… But in this case, the discussion is also buried in with about 20 other topics so it’s difficult to follow whether it’s an Apple discussion or a Martin Scorcese discussion.

    This is what Apple’s supposed to be participating in? They are supposed to comment in Winer’s personal blog that throws many stories into one? Absurd.

    “Yet there *is* a conversation about it on the net, it’s just that Apple isn’t part of it.”

    Actually, there are MANY conversations, and Apple is participating in the one’s on their support site and mail lists. How they are supposed to know that they need to comment in your personal comments, I do not know.

  20. Wow! I decided to check out Winer’s “discussion in the comments at Scripting News”. His discussion invovles 5 comments, only 1 addressing Apple. If you scroll back through his archives, you find another post where the turn around was quick on his repar and there, there are quite a few comments… But in this case, the discussion is also buried in with about 20 other topics so it’s difficult to follow whether it’s an Apple discussion or a Martin Scorcese discussion.

    This is what Apple’s supposed to be participating in? They are supposed to comment in Winer’s personal blog that throws many stories into one? Absurd.

    “Yet there *is* a conversation about it on the net, it’s just that Apple isn’t part of it.”

    Actually, there are MANY conversations, and Apple is participating in the one’s on their support site and mail lists. How they are supposed to know that they need to comment in your personal comments, I do not know.

  21. Lol, I new that the Mac fans would come out in defense of their company, Apple is no different than any other company,it should let it’s employee’s blog, but of course that just couldn’t happen.

    Apple employees have to toe the corporate line, and I’m just amazed that the Mac fans think this is all right.

    I like Apple, I just don’t understand some of it’s fans, Apple has made it’s shares of mistakes, but I just can’t believe that apple’s above crticism in the eyes of some people.

  22. Lol, I new that the Mac fans would come out in defense of their company, Apple is no different than any other company,it should let it’s employee’s blog, but of course that just couldn’t happen.

    Apple employees have to toe the corporate line, and I’m just amazed that the Mac fans think this is all right.

    I like Apple, I just don’t understand some of it’s fans, Apple has made it’s shares of mistakes, but I just can’t believe that apple’s above crticism in the eyes of some people.

  23. It’s pretty unusual. Consider Google, whose blogging star is Matt Cutts. Matt discusses SEO, when you’d think the last thing Google would want is for one of it’s employees to be talking about it, but Google knows it’s important to have a human voice on the net, so they let him do his thing.

  24. It’s pretty unusual. Consider Google, whose blogging star is Matt Cutts. Matt discusses SEO, when you’d think the last thing Google would want is for one of it’s employees to be talking about it, but Google knows it’s important to have a human voice on the net, so they let him do his thing.

  25. Apple = Think Different,… You don’t expect Apple’s to jump on the blogging bandwagon just like everybody else now do you?

  26. Apple = Think Different,… You don’t expect Apple’s to jump on the blogging bandwagon just like everybody else now do you?

  27. I’d also like to see apple blog. It’s surprising that Steve doesn’t – how ’bout a video-blog? c-mon?

    To their credit, apple hosts one of the most lively and useful converstions on the web: got to discussions.apple.com –> their forums, by product are well used and content-rich.

  28. I’d also like to see apple blog. It’s surprising that Steve doesn’t – how ’bout a video-blog? c-mon?

    To their credit, apple hosts one of the most lively and useful converstions on the web: got to discussions.apple.com –> their forums, by product are well used and content-rich.

  29. “Anyway, you can see the difference in how Apple treats online communication in Chuqui’s post. At Adobe I see tons of blogs. At Microsoft I see tons of blogs. At IBM I see tons of blogs. At Sun I see tons of blogs.”

    What differences would those be? Are you suggesting these companies are making more money because more of their employees are blogging? Is Apple suffering in their public perception because they aren’t blogging? Sure, maybe you think less of them, but does the market? Does the public? Seriously, what are the things Apple is not achieving as far as success goes, by their apparent lack of the Scoble Blogging Strategy”? And what, specificially, have these other companies attained in the way of bottom line success by blogging. For example, there seems to be a log of XBOX MS bloggers, but the division is still losing money. There seem to be a lot of bloggers in the Online Business Division at MS, but that division is still losing money. So…what are the “differences”, exactly? Beyond you thinking its cool they blog.

  30. “Anyway, you can see the difference in how Apple treats online communication in Chuqui’s post. At Adobe I see tons of blogs. At Microsoft I see tons of blogs. At IBM I see tons of blogs. At Sun I see tons of blogs.”

    What differences would those be? Are you suggesting these companies are making more money because more of their employees are blogging? Is Apple suffering in their public perception because they aren’t blogging? Sure, maybe you think less of them, but does the market? Does the public? Seriously, what are the things Apple is not achieving as far as success goes, by their apparent lack of the Scoble Blogging Strategy”? And what, specificially, have these other companies attained in the way of bottom line success by blogging. For example, there seems to be a log of XBOX MS bloggers, but the division is still losing money. There seem to be a lot of bloggers in the Online Business Division at MS, but that division is still losing money. So…what are the “differences”, exactly? Beyond you thinking its cool they blog.

  31. Goebbels: Blogging is about communication, how is it about anything else?

    To me, I find blogs more transparent than some hidden away forum and more believable then some marketing spiel written on a corporate site.

    Have a look at fordboldmoves.com. I think this site is fantastic. Whilst it’s being led by Ford Corporates (rather obvious) it still gives a for and against motion, usually by a third party, and asks you, the consumer, to comment. If companies can leverage this type of communication and build better products they do two things; 1) build a better company and 2) build a better rapport with their consumer.

  32. Goebbels: Blogging is about communication, how is it about anything else?

    To me, I find blogs more transparent than some hidden away forum and more believable then some marketing spiel written on a corporate site.

    Have a look at fordboldmoves.com. I think this site is fantastic. Whilst it’s being led by Ford Corporates (rather obvious) it still gives a for and against motion, usually by a third party, and asks you, the consumer, to comment. If companies can leverage this type of communication and build better products they do two things; 1) build a better company and 2) build a better rapport with their consumer.

  33. “To me, I find blogs more transparent than some hidden away forum and more believable then some marketing spiel written on a corporate site.”

    And to me, I find blogs a pathetic useless mouthpiece when employees with no true decision-making capability claim to be speaking for the company when nothing real comes of it. So what?

    To this date, I haven’t seen anything effective come out of a company’s blog. Unless you think that companies with poor images in the consumers eye passing themselves off on susceptible dupes like yourself as more responsive and open is effective.

  34. “To me, I find blogs more transparent than some hidden away forum and more believable then some marketing spiel written on a corporate site.”

    And to me, I find blogs a pathetic useless mouthpiece when employees with no true decision-making capability claim to be speaking for the company when nothing real comes of it. So what?

    To this date, I haven’t seen anything effective come out of a company’s blog. Unless you think that companies with poor images in the consumers eye passing themselves off on susceptible dupes like yourself as more responsive and open is effective.

  35. But wouldn’t you say Apple is doing just fine without transparency via blogging? And wouldn’t you also agree that blogging *will* change the nature of how Apple operates and that there are potential problems to wide-spread corporate blogging?

    Frankly, I don’t see overwhelming incentives for Apple. Rather, I think Apple employee blogs will just introduce undesirable noise and spins to Apple’s finely tuned marketing and PR engine.

    IMHO, blogging is not a magic potion that’ll work for every company. It’s a double-edged weapon that should be taken up when the needs are clear and problems are well understood.

  36. But wouldn’t you say Apple is doing just fine without transparency via blogging? And wouldn’t you also agree that blogging *will* change the nature of how Apple operates and that there are potential problems to wide-spread corporate blogging?

    Frankly, I don’t see overwhelming incentives for Apple. Rather, I think Apple employee blogs will just introduce undesirable noise and spins to Apple’s finely tuned marketing and PR engine.

    IMHO, blogging is not a magic potion that’ll work for every company. It’s a double-edged weapon that should be taken up when the needs are clear and problems are well understood.

  37. Microsoft has lots and lots of bloggers because they’re trying to repair the reputation of the company. Apple has the reputation of angelic perfection, so there’s no need for them to blog.

  38. Microsoft has lots and lots of bloggers because they’re trying to repair the reputation of the company. Apple has the reputation of angelic perfection, so there’s no need for them to blog.

  39. Goebbels : Bang on. ‘Company blogs’ dont feel ‘quite real’. At best, they are extensions for some technical documentation.

  40. Goebbels : Bang on. ‘Company blogs’ dont feel ‘quite real’. At best, they are extensions for some technical documentation.

  41. Bat: none of the bloggers I know at Microsoft are doing it for that reason.

    #25: should I link to all the people who have rebooting problems on their Macbooks? Oh, actually I have.

    And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options? http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/10/16/is-apples-options-scandal-over/

    http://www.google.com/search?q=MacBook+rebooting&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

    Sure, Apple is doing just fine without blogging.

  42. Goebbels: >>And to me, I find blogs a pathetic useless mouthpiece when employees with no true decision-making capability claim to be speaking for the company when nothing real comes of it.

    It’s pretty obvious you’ve never read any of the blogs at:

    http://adobe.blogs.com
    http://blogs.msdn.com
    http://blogs.technet.com
    http://blogs.sun.com
    http://www-03.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/

    I learn a LOT from these blogs. But, I guess you are already all knowing and all that. I wish I could read your blog since you’re so knowledgeable.

  43. Bat: none of the bloggers I know at Microsoft are doing it for that reason.

    #25: should I link to all the people who have rebooting problems on their Macbooks? Oh, actually I have.

    And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options? http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/10/16/is-apples-options-scandal-over/

    http://www.google.com/search?q=MacBook+rebooting&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

    Sure, Apple is doing just fine without blogging.

  44. Goebbels: >>And to me, I find blogs a pathetic useless mouthpiece when employees with no true decision-making capability claim to be speaking for the company when nothing real comes of it.

    It’s pretty obvious you’ve never read any of the blogs at:

    http://adobe.blogs.com
    http://blogs.msdn.com
    http://blogs.technet.com
    http://blogs.sun.com
    http://www-03.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/

    I learn a LOT from these blogs. But, I guess you are already all knowing and all that. I wish I could read your blog since you’re so knowledgeable.

  45. The great success and failure of the Apple way is the utterly unified design, system and communication.

    There are alot of pluses to this way of doing things, but man it can be brittle. You don’t get to hear the Munchkins blog, you get to see The Man Behind The Curtain At A Time Of His Choosing.

    And we _all_ wait to hear the lowdown on those goddamn keynotes, don’t we? And even when the products fail, they still seduce.

    Will there be a next generation company that is able to make hardware/software that is as compelling without a sociopathic aesthete leader? Imagine the Meryl Streep character in “The Devil Wears Prada” as Woz!

    Woz is great, Woz tells the truth, but Woz could not have saved the co. and the core principles of design and usability which Apple still teaches to everyone else.

    A Modest Proposal
    Apple is creating alot of ill-will by not acknowledging their mistakes quickly enough. Maybe the Rev A buyers could sign up for a subscription fee. It could be a special .Mac account (Probably an extra $83.33/mo., which would include some Apple stickers.)

    They would purchase the latest and the greatest, which would be produced in limited editions first. They would use the machines for 6 mo. or until they broke down or exhibited some incredibly wack symptom (like mooing, frying testicles, blue tinge on a screen etc.) The Rev A device would then be returned to the closest Apple Store where a Genius would interrogate them for a few hours. They would then get a voucher for the real release of the device, Rev B.

    The $1k/year spent by each member of The Bleeding Edge Corps would easily subsidize the money spent on the support staff to deal with their feedback, interrogation, vouchers, etc.

    And we would all benefit.

  46. The great success and failure of the Apple way is the utterly unified design, system and communication.

    There are alot of pluses to this way of doing things, but man it can be brittle. You don’t get to hear the Munchkins blog, you get to see The Man Behind The Curtain At A Time Of His Choosing.

    And we _all_ wait to hear the lowdown on those goddamn keynotes, don’t we? And even when the products fail, they still seduce.

    Will there be a next generation company that is able to make hardware/software that is as compelling without a sociopathic aesthete leader? Imagine the Meryl Streep character in “The Devil Wears Prada” as Woz!

    Woz is great, Woz tells the truth, but Woz could not have saved the co. and the core principles of design and usability which Apple still teaches to everyone else.

    A Modest Proposal
    Apple is creating alot of ill-will by not acknowledging their mistakes quickly enough. Maybe the Rev A buyers could sign up for a subscription fee. It could be a special .Mac account (Probably an extra $83.33/mo., which would include some Apple stickers.)

    They would purchase the latest and the greatest, which would be produced in limited editions first. They would use the machines for 6 mo. or until they broke down or exhibited some incredibly wack symptom (like mooing, frying testicles, blue tinge on a screen etc.) The Rev A device would then be returned to the closest Apple Store where a Genius would interrogate them for a few hours. They would then get a voucher for the real release of the device, Rev B.

    The $1k/year spent by each member of The Bleeding Edge Corps would easily subsidize the money spent on the support staff to deal with their feedback, interrogation, vouchers, etc.

    And we would all benefit.

  47. I had lnch with a few Apple folks earlier this week. They won’t even talk about work off the record. I’d say Steve has them all scared to death.

  48. I had lnch with a few Apple folks earlier this week. They won’t even talk about work off the record. I’d say Steve has them all scared to death.

  49. “And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options? http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/10/16/is-apples-options-scandal-over/

    http://www.google.com/search?q=MacBook+rebooting&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

    Sure, Apple is doing just fine without blogging.”

    And what would blogging do re: the Job’s stock options problems?

    Really?

    You think blogging by the company being investigated by a SEC investigation would help?
    In what way?

  50. “And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options? http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/10/16/is-apples-options-scandal-over/

    http://www.google.com/search?q=MacBook+rebooting&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

    Sure, Apple is doing just fine without blogging.”

    And what would blogging do re: the Job’s stock options problems?

    Really?

    You think blogging by the company being investigated by a SEC investigation would help?
    In what way?

  51. Robert,
    I’m not sure what you mean by Google being good at having employees blog. I always thought they were uptight about employees blogging their work.
    So Google these (you started this):
    ‘checkout blog’ – brings the Official Google checkout blog
    ‘booksearch blog’ – Inside Google Booksearch, a bland booky blog written by employees, got to be ‘official’
    ‘docs and spreadsheets blog’ – brings the Official Docs and Spreadsheets blog
    ‘sketchup blog’ – brings the Official Google Blog
    ‘desktop blog’ – brings the Official Google Blog

    So a speedy test for five Google products brings one real employee blogging – and from a quick read of that blog I’m not sure telling him his product sucks will do anything, thoough I’d happily try (not that I do think that product sucks, you know what I mean).
    I don’t think Google employees really blog about their work.

  52. Robert,
    I’m not sure what you mean by Google being good at having employees blog. I always thought they were uptight about employees blogging their work.
    So Google these (you started this):
    ‘checkout blog’ – brings the Official Google checkout blog
    ‘booksearch blog’ – Inside Google Booksearch, a bland booky blog written by employees, got to be ‘official’
    ‘docs and spreadsheets blog’ – brings the Official Docs and Spreadsheets blog
    ‘sketchup blog’ – brings the Official Google Blog
    ‘desktop blog’ – brings the Official Google Blog

    So a speedy test for five Google products brings one real employee blogging – and from a quick read of that blog I’m not sure telling him his product sucks will do anything, thoough I’d happily try (not that I do think that product sucks, you know what I mean).
    I don’t think Google employees really blog about their work.

  53. Robert,

    What’s the difference between a discussion forum and blog in terms of the interaction between a company and its customers, suppliers etc?

    The Apple defenders here have a point, but if there’s a difference I’m missing I’d appreciate your insights.

    I personally think Apple could indeed benefit from blogs. But rather than have employees blog, I’d instead like to see some senior people in the company blogging.

    This would help to demystify the company to outsiders and help to address the #1 issue at the company from the pov of investors — what happens when Steve Jobs goes. That’s why the stock option thing is/was so worrying to The Street…

    Strategically, Apple should be using blogs to give profile to some other leaders. It’s important that there be a widely trusted successor to Jobs. Blogs are a great way for candidates to build a connection with the public.

    Apple also needs to address this growing perception that employees live/work in fear. That it’s a closed environment. Is it really? Why would any of America’s brightest grads want to work there if that’s the common perception out there? That’s an issue for investors again, the company’s ability to attract talent.

    To correct this perception, an effective approach would be to encourage employees to blog. However, I don’t think the objective should be to serve customers. They already have an established online system for that.

  54. Robert,

    What’s the difference between a discussion forum and blog in terms of the interaction between a company and its customers, suppliers etc?

    The Apple defenders here have a point, but if there’s a difference I’m missing I’d appreciate your insights.

    I personally think Apple could indeed benefit from blogs. But rather than have employees blog, I’d instead like to see some senior people in the company blogging.

    This would help to demystify the company to outsiders and help to address the #1 issue at the company from the pov of investors — what happens when Steve Jobs goes. That’s why the stock option thing is/was so worrying to The Street…

    Strategically, Apple should be using blogs to give profile to some other leaders. It’s important that there be a widely trusted successor to Jobs. Blogs are a great way for candidates to build a connection with the public.

    Apple also needs to address this growing perception that employees live/work in fear. That it’s a closed environment. Is it really? Why would any of America’s brightest grads want to work there if that’s the common perception out there? That’s an issue for investors again, the company’s ability to attract talent.

    To correct this perception, an effective approach would be to encourage employees to blog. However, I don’t think the objective should be to serve customers. They already have an established online system for that.

  55. @Goebbels: Haha, oh “dupe” is a bit harsh.

    I can’t comment on whether they are or aren’t making a difference. I don’t think either of us can, as we’re not involved directly with the company.

    What I can say is that I believe that communicating directly with your consumers/employers/employees/general public can only be a good thing. Any feedback, good or bad, is valuable. How you obtain it, who cares? Whether its forum, blog, feedback form, support call.. does it really matter?

    I’m sure if Apple allowed their employees to blog, if they removed this blog-and-be-fired mentality, they could learn something valuable from their own employees, as well as the commentors. It’s the whole ‘on the off chance’… but it still a ‘chance’.

  56. @Goebbels: Haha, oh “dupe” is a bit harsh.

    I can’t comment on whether they are or aren’t making a difference. I don’t think either of us can, as we’re not involved directly with the company.

    What I can say is that I believe that communicating directly with your consumers/employers/employees/general public can only be a good thing. Any feedback, good or bad, is valuable. How you obtain it, who cares? Whether its forum, blog, feedback form, support call.. does it really matter?

    I’m sure if Apple allowed their employees to blog, if they removed this blog-and-be-fired mentality, they could learn something valuable from their own employees, as well as the commentors. It’s the whole ‘on the off chance’… but it still a ‘chance’.

  57. Sorry I should clarify this a little better. As Robert said above, “Apple employees ARE allowed to blog. They just aren’t allowed to be spokespeople, as Chuqui admits.” When I say “allowed their employees to blog” I mean unrestricted, rather than with their hands tied.

  58. Sorry I should clarify this a little better. As Robert said above, “Apple employees ARE allowed to blog. They just aren’t allowed to be spokespeople, as Chuqui admits.” When I say “allowed their employees to blog” I mean unrestricted, rather than with their hands tied.

  59. Notice how Robert is suddenly posting Apple stories and iPod vs. Zune stories. He always seems to do that when his blog gets boring and nobody is comenting. Not surprising…

  60. Notice how Robert is suddenly posting Apple stories and iPod vs. Zune stories. He always seems to do that when his blog gets boring and nobody is comenting. Not surprising…

  61. Apple does not need to blog ! Instead of always promising – they deliver.

    Blogs have not only positive effects like better customer awareness (BTW, do Apple really need it ?), but also negative – like leaking information to competitors, slowing down purchases of customers who will wait for next version of ABC, damage to marketing plans – as when entire information is given to public in the same time as product hit stores – people read about it and go to store to buy it same day.

    Microsoft have to use blogs because it takes infinite time to release something – as well it does not hurt MS to do so – as this will make any potential competitors scared and does not hurt sales as MS is monopoly – no way for customers to escape to other vendor. Also this can be influenced by Microsoft business strategy – fast follower – not leader.

  62. Apple does not need to blog ! Instead of always promising – they deliver.

    Blogs have not only positive effects like better customer awareness (BTW, do Apple really need it ?), but also negative – like leaking information to competitors, slowing down purchases of customers who will wait for next version of ABC, damage to marketing plans – as when entire information is given to public in the same time as product hit stores – people read about it and go to store to buy it same day.

    Microsoft have to use blogs because it takes infinite time to release something – as well it does not hurt MS to do so – as this will make any potential competitors scared and does not hurt sales as MS is monopoly – no way for customers to escape to other vendor. Also this can be influenced by Microsoft business strategy – fast follower – not leader.

  63. Scoble, last I checked Nasdaq removed any threat of delisting and Apple is far ahead of any company taking care of their backdating issues. How would a blog help?

    Apple has also released an update to the shutdown issue. How would a blog help?

    What magic does this word “blog” have for you?

  64. Scoble, last I checked Nasdaq removed any threat of delisting and Apple is far ahead of any company taking care of their backdating issues. How would a blog help?

    Apple has also released an update to the shutdown issue. How would a blog help?

    What magic does this word “blog” have for you?

  65. Apple is brilliant at marketing products and upholding a legendary mystique around the company’s image. It’s not about luck, but careful management of ‘the message’. As long as Apple is playing at this level, there’s no reason to introduce bloggers who might dilute or confuse that message. Would you respect Apple more if you learned about company infighting over iPod colors? Apple’s image is so untouchable that it’s hard to imagine that kind of behavior occurs, although it certainly does at some level. Blogs would expose a ‘human’ side to Apple that it doesn’t need to show the world. The world already trusts and loves Apple.

    Until the day comes when Apple starts to lose the trust of its customer and its image comes down to earth, don’t expect to see blogging happen.

  66. Apple is brilliant at marketing products and upholding a legendary mystique around the company’s image. It’s not about luck, but careful management of ‘the message’. As long as Apple is playing at this level, there’s no reason to introduce bloggers who might dilute or confuse that message. Would you respect Apple more if you learned about company infighting over iPod colors? Apple’s image is so untouchable that it’s hard to imagine that kind of behavior occurs, although it certainly does at some level. Blogs would expose a ‘human’ side to Apple that it doesn’t need to show the world. The world already trusts and loves Apple.

    Until the day comes when Apple starts to lose the trust of its customer and its image comes down to earth, don’t expect to see blogging happen.

  67. Scoble how does this blog post ( http://www.zillowblog.com/zillow_blog/2006/10/zestimate_accur.html ) help your favorite new pet from possibly being completely shutdown?

    Does saying something silly and Web 2.0ish over and over again like “Zestimates” help? Does saying we aren’t offering appraisals help? Does saying “we are doing our best” help? As I see it, they are a 2.0 bubble company that never properly inspected whether or not their “business” was legal. And just because they had the blogs, social aspect, the new web tech, the VC money… well, it looks like they have serious reason to be concernedabout being around next year.

  68. Scoble how does this blog post ( http://www.zillowblog.com/zillow_blog/2006/10/zestimate_accur.html ) help your favorite new pet from possibly being completely shutdown?

    Does saying something silly and Web 2.0ish over and over again like “Zestimates” help? Does saying we aren’t offering appraisals help? Does saying “we are doing our best” help? As I see it, they are a 2.0 bubble company that never properly inspected whether or not their “business” was legal. And just because they had the blogs, social aspect, the new web tech, the VC money… well, it looks like they have serious reason to be concernedabout being around next year.

  69. >>What’s the difference between a discussion forum and blog in terms of the interaction between a company and its customers, suppliers etc?

    A discussion forum usually doesn’t get found in Google.

    Also, in a discussion forum you don’t know as much about the person talking. I wrote 100,000 newsgroup posts in the 1990s. I never knew whether the guy writing from Microsoft ran the team or was just an intern. On a blog I know that very well.

    Also, with a discussion forum I hear a multitude of voices. Maybe I only want to hear from the folks who run the team. In a forum I have to put up with lots of noise. On a blog I can hear from, say, Mark Cuban without having his thoughts polluted by (or made harder to find) by other people.

    But it all comes down to what changed over the past eight years: Google. Normal people use search to find stuff. Blogs get found. Messages left on forums do not. (Largely, I know there are exceptions).

  70. >>What’s the difference between a discussion forum and blog in terms of the interaction between a company and its customers, suppliers etc?

    A discussion forum usually doesn’t get found in Google.

    Also, in a discussion forum you don’t know as much about the person talking. I wrote 100,000 newsgroup posts in the 1990s. I never knew whether the guy writing from Microsoft ran the team or was just an intern. On a blog I know that very well.

    Also, with a discussion forum I hear a multitude of voices. Maybe I only want to hear from the folks who run the team. In a forum I have to put up with lots of noise. On a blog I can hear from, say, Mark Cuban without having his thoughts polluted by (or made harder to find) by other people.

    But it all comes down to what changed over the past eight years: Google. Normal people use search to find stuff. Blogs get found. Messages left on forums do not. (Largely, I know there are exceptions).

  71. Goebbels: love how you call Zillow my favorite pet. That kind of language tells me you aren’t here for a conversation and that you aren’t accurately looking at what I’ve done. I’ve done dozens of interviews with Web 2 companies. Not just Zillow.

  72. Goebbels: love how you call Zillow my favorite pet. That kind of language tells me you aren’t here for a conversation and that you aren’t accurately looking at what I’ve done. I’ve done dozens of interviews with Web 2 companies. Not just Zillow.

  73. #37: yeah, Cupertino ships computers that reboot often (my ex wife has a MacBook and it’s already rebooted). They also did stock option back dating, which is threatening to become a big story for Apple execs, including Steve Jobs. And my new MacPro’s Apple software has crashed twice in its first 10 days of life. All while running commercials that claim that their stuff never crashes.

  74. #37: yeah, Cupertino ships computers that reboot often (my ex wife has a MacBook and it’s already rebooted). They also did stock option back dating, which is threatening to become a big story for Apple execs, including Steve Jobs. And my new MacPro’s Apple software has crashed twice in its first 10 days of life. All while running commercials that claim that their stuff never crashes.

  75. A discussion forum usually doesn’t get found in Google.

    Bullshit. Anytime I Google for troubleshooting information, I get links to discussion forums that apply to the issue with the same frequency as other web sites.

    Also, in a discussion forum you don’t know as much about the person talking. I wrote 100,000 newsgroup posts in the 1990s. I never knew whether the guy writing from Microsoft ran the team or was just an intern. On a blog I know that very well.

    No Robert, you don’t KNOW. You take the poster at their word. But you don’t KNOW. Blogs are not magical identity checks that come with absolute proof of ID. When you say things like that, you really kill your credibility, and start looking like some mindless blogging fanboy.

    Also, with a discussion forum I hear a multitude of voices. Maybe I only want to hear from the folks who run the team. In a forum I have to put up with lots of noise. On a blog I can hear from, say, Mark Cuban without having his thoughts polluted by (or made harder to find) by other people.

    I’d rather hear from the people writing the code, not the talking head in charge of them. Hmm…I get that on Apple’s mailing lists all the time. No talking heads. Of course, it’s not like the people in charge of Microsoft are blogging. Sinofsky stopped, not that his was ever anything but blathering about generic managerial stuff. Where’s Ballmer’s Blog? How about Gates? RIght now, that whole “blogging from the top” thing is a little light at Microsoft.

    However, I have more interesting questions for the “King of Open Communications”

    Where on PodTech’s site can I find information on the executive staff? Oh, you’re there, but you’re not the Pres/CEO/Etc. Oddly, there’s nothing that’s easily found on the PodTech site. Where are the blogs from the PodTech executive staff other than you? Why did I have to search for PodTech CEO on PodTech’s site to find out that John Furrier is the CEO? That’s not very open Robert. Why are all his entries on http://www.podtech.net/home/author/johnfurrier/ nothing but interviews with others? Where’s his blog about PodTech? Why isn’t it on the home page as a link? That’s not very open Robert. Maybe you should get the PodTech executive staff blogging, before you whine about the people in charge at Apple not blogging? Because right now, PodTech’s not doing real good.

    But it all comes down to what changed over the past eight years: Google. Normal people use search to find stuff. Blogs get found. Messages left on forums do not. (Largely, I know there are exceptions).

    You DO know that forums are web sites, right? so unless the forum operator takes positive steps to prevent it, they get hit by Google just as much. The difference is, there’s a lot more NON-forum content, so that will, unsurprisingly, show up more than the forums will. But stop trying to push the idea that Google overlooks forums. It’s just not correct.

  76. A discussion forum usually doesn’t get found in Google.

    Bullshit. Anytime I Google for troubleshooting information, I get links to discussion forums that apply to the issue with the same frequency as other web sites.

    Also, in a discussion forum you don’t know as much about the person talking. I wrote 100,000 newsgroup posts in the 1990s. I never knew whether the guy writing from Microsoft ran the team or was just an intern. On a blog I know that very well.

    No Robert, you don’t KNOW. You take the poster at their word. But you don’t KNOW. Blogs are not magical identity checks that come with absolute proof of ID. When you say things like that, you really kill your credibility, and start looking like some mindless blogging fanboy.

    Also, with a discussion forum I hear a multitude of voices. Maybe I only want to hear from the folks who run the team. In a forum I have to put up with lots of noise. On a blog I can hear from, say, Mark Cuban without having his thoughts polluted by (or made harder to find) by other people.

    I’d rather hear from the people writing the code, not the talking head in charge of them. Hmm…I get that on Apple’s mailing lists all the time. No talking heads. Of course, it’s not like the people in charge of Microsoft are blogging. Sinofsky stopped, not that his was ever anything but blathering about generic managerial stuff. Where’s Ballmer’s Blog? How about Gates? RIght now, that whole “blogging from the top” thing is a little light at Microsoft.

    However, I have more interesting questions for the “King of Open Communications”

    Where on PodTech’s site can I find information on the executive staff? Oh, you’re there, but you’re not the Pres/CEO/Etc. Oddly, there’s nothing that’s easily found on the PodTech site. Where are the blogs from the PodTech executive staff other than you? Why did I have to search for PodTech CEO on PodTech’s site to find out that John Furrier is the CEO? That’s not very open Robert. Why are all his entries on http://www.podtech.net/home/author/johnfurrier/ nothing but interviews with others? Where’s his blog about PodTech? Why isn’t it on the home page as a link? That’s not very open Robert. Maybe you should get the PodTech executive staff blogging, before you whine about the people in charge at Apple not blogging? Because right now, PodTech’s not doing real good.

    But it all comes down to what changed over the past eight years: Google. Normal people use search to find stuff. Blogs get found. Messages left on forums do not. (Largely, I know there are exceptions).

    You DO know that forums are web sites, right? so unless the forum operator takes positive steps to prevent it, they get hit by Google just as much. The difference is, there’s a lot more NON-forum content, so that will, unsurprisingly, show up more than the forums will. But stop trying to push the idea that Google overlooks forums. It’s just not correct.

  77. Where does calling one company your pet foreclose the possibility that you’ve talked to others?

    I’m trying to have a conversation, but you are avoiding how a blog would help with a tech issue and a financial/legal issue which they have addressed in other, more effective ways. You are avoiding discussing how companies that blog still have significant issues not helped by blogs. And you repeat the silliness about a couple of Apple issues which they have clearly been trying to address and they have discussed to the public.

    So if you want to cry and take your ball home because I used the word “pet” (oooh, evil), that’s fine. Just shows how effective a blog is, doesn’t it?

  78. Where does calling one company your pet foreclose the possibility that you’ve talked to others?

    I’m trying to have a conversation, but you are avoiding how a blog would help with a tech issue and a financial/legal issue which they have addressed in other, more effective ways. You are avoiding discussing how companies that blog still have significant issues not helped by blogs. And you repeat the silliness about a couple of Apple issues which they have clearly been trying to address and they have discussed to the public.

    So if you want to cry and take your ball home because I used the word “pet” (oooh, evil), that’s fine. Just shows how effective a blog is, doesn’t it?

  79. John: I’ve done thousands of searches, and so have those of us who work in the forum business (you do realize that I ran a forum as well as a blog at Microsoft, right?) and to claim that forums show up in Google searches as well as blogs is just false. Absolutely false.

    And, yes, PodTech sucks when it comes to blogging.

  80. John: I’ve done thousands of searches, and so have those of us who work in the forum business (you do realize that I ran a forum as well as a blog at Microsoft, right?) and to claim that forums show up in Google searches as well as blogs is just false. Absolutely false.

    And, yes, PodTech sucks when it comes to blogging.

  81. >>er…um…how would blogging have ameliorated the Jobs stock options backdating issue? Please explain.

    My point is that many who own Apple stock do so because of this visionary in faded jeans and black polo-neck — Steve Jobs.

    Who the heck else is there at the company if he were to be taken out because of stock option abuses. I can’t name single senior executive who could fill his shoes.

    Obviously, they exist. But I can’t name one? I can’t see their faces? Are they scared just like everyone else at the company? Is there anyone at Apple with a bit of backbone?

    Now if some senior hitherto faceless people at Apple were bloggers, we’d have a better sense of who actually runs the company. It’s certainly not one man. But who?

  82. >>er…um…how would blogging have ameliorated the Jobs stock options backdating issue? Please explain.

    My point is that many who own Apple stock do so because of this visionary in faded jeans and black polo-neck — Steve Jobs.

    Who the heck else is there at the company if he were to be taken out because of stock option abuses. I can’t name single senior executive who could fill his shoes.

    Obviously, they exist. But I can’t name one? I can’t see their faces? Are they scared just like everyone else at the company? Is there anyone at Apple with a bit of backbone?

    Now if some senior hitherto faceless people at Apple were bloggers, we’d have a better sense of who actually runs the company. It’s certainly not one man. But who?

  83. Strange, I do this search:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-30%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=apple+support+discussion+macbook&btnG=Search

    And I get form results from macnn, macintouch, Apple’s support site, Ars journals, notebookreview, autodesk, macosx.com… I even get search results from Apple’s web site in the first couple of pages of results. There are more forum results than blog results (and this has been a popular blog topic).

    Scoble, you are off your rocker if you claim Google doesn’t search forum results.

  84. Strange, I do this search:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-30%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=apple+support+discussion+macbook&btnG=Search

    And I get form results from macnn, macintouch, Apple’s support site, Ars journals, notebookreview, autodesk, macosx.com… I even get search results from Apple’s web site in the first couple of pages of results. There are more forum results than blog results (and this has been a popular blog topic).

    Scoble, you are off your rocker if you claim Google doesn’t search forum results.

  85. “My point is that many who own Apple stock do so because of this visionary in faded jeans and black polo-neck — Steve Jobs.”

    No, they own the stock because of good financial results. But how would a blog help?

    “Who the heck else is there at the company if he were to be taken out because of stock option abuses. I can’t name single senior executive who could fill his shoes.”

    Because you’re not well informed. It’s relatively obvious who the current replacement is likely to be. I didn’t need a blog to know it though.

    “Obviously, they exist. But I can’t name one?”

    And that’s your fault. You can look at their exec profiles or read a financial report for the answer.

    “I can’t see their faces?”

    Is that a question? Their bios have pictures.

    “Are they scared just like everyone else at the company?”

    No. Does not having a blog make you scared? Are Ballmer and Gates afraid?

    “Is there anyone at Apple with a bit of backbone?”

    It takes a ton of backbone to work at Apple. Just read the most recent entry at the ApplePeels BLOG to see how much individual backbone is required.

    “Now if some senior hitherto faceless people at Apple were bloggers, we’d have a better sense of who actually runs the company. It’s certainly not one man. But who?”

    Jobs runs the company. Tim Cook is the No. 2. Fadell runs the iPod division. Ives does the design. Johnson runs the retail. Oppenheimer is the CFO. Schiller runs Marketing and is another possible replacement candidate for CEO (but unlikely). Serlet and Tamaddon handle software. All learned without the use of a blog.

    So the question remains: how does a blog help with a financial issue? Particularly one that no one in their right mind would discuss?

    Or more obviously, there are over 200 companies being investigated for backdating: show me one single company discussing it (or anything else) in a blog in a manner that it has helped them one inota.

  86. “My point is that many who own Apple stock do so because of this visionary in faded jeans and black polo-neck — Steve Jobs.”

    No, they own the stock because of good financial results. But how would a blog help?

    “Who the heck else is there at the company if he were to be taken out because of stock option abuses. I can’t name single senior executive who could fill his shoes.”

    Because you’re not well informed. It’s relatively obvious who the current replacement is likely to be. I didn’t need a blog to know it though.

    “Obviously, they exist. But I can’t name one?”

    And that’s your fault. You can look at their exec profiles or read a financial report for the answer.

    “I can’t see their faces?”

    Is that a question? Their bios have pictures.

    “Are they scared just like everyone else at the company?”

    No. Does not having a blog make you scared? Are Ballmer and Gates afraid?

    “Is there anyone at Apple with a bit of backbone?”

    It takes a ton of backbone to work at Apple. Just read the most recent entry at the ApplePeels BLOG to see how much individual backbone is required.

    “Now if some senior hitherto faceless people at Apple were bloggers, we’d have a better sense of who actually runs the company. It’s certainly not one man. But who?”

    Jobs runs the company. Tim Cook is the No. 2. Fadell runs the iPod division. Ives does the design. Johnson runs the retail. Oppenheimer is the CFO. Schiller runs Marketing and is another possible replacement candidate for CEO (but unlikely). Serlet and Tamaddon handle software. All learned without the use of a blog.

    So the question remains: how does a blog help with a financial issue? Particularly one that no one in their right mind would discuss?

    Or more obviously, there are over 200 companies being investigated for backdating: show me one single company discussing it (or anything else) in a blog in a manner that it has helped them one inota.

  87. Goebbels: I never said a blog would help with that. Go back and read what I wrote. I wasn’t talking about blogs when I brought that up. Thanks for trying to make this conversation only about blogs. I was trying to point out that Apple’s reputation isn’t as pure as many Apple fans make it out to be.

  88. Goebbels: I never said a blog would help with that. Go back and read what I wrote. I wasn’t talking about blogs when I brought that up. Thanks for trying to make this conversation only about blogs. I was trying to point out that Apple’s reputation isn’t as pure as many Apple fans make it out to be.

  89. Goebbels,

    I never said they should blog about options backdating. I said blogs could help Apple address the common perception that Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs.

    You’re obviously familiar with Apple, but most people, including on Wall Street, are not.

    Apple’s stock sank on the stock options news for one reason only. It started with a report called “Risks of options irregularities at Apple (and Pixar)” by Merrill Lynch’s Richard Farmer.

    He pointed a finger directly at Jobs for possible options irregularities at Apple and Pixar.

    That spooked The Street. Their reaction was simply what I’ve already explained. Fear that Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs.

    Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs. That’s the widely held perception, as evidence by how the market reacted when Steve Job’s name was brought up as possibly being ousted over options issues.

    So, right or wrong, this perception is a problem for Apple. Perception is reality.

  90. Goebbels,

    I never said they should blog about options backdating. I said blogs could help Apple address the common perception that Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs.

    You’re obviously familiar with Apple, but most people, including on Wall Street, are not.

    Apple’s stock sank on the stock options news for one reason only. It started with a report called “Risks of options irregularities at Apple (and Pixar)” by Merrill Lynch’s Richard Farmer.

    He pointed a finger directly at Jobs for possible options irregularities at Apple and Pixar.

    That spooked The Street. Their reaction was simply what I’ve already explained. Fear that Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs.

    Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs. That’s the widely held perception, as evidence by how the market reacted when Steve Job’s name was brought up as possibly being ousted over options issues.

    So, right or wrong, this perception is a problem for Apple. Perception is reality.

  91. Scoble, are you on crack? If you are referring to my last post, since I was quoting Dominic, I think I was responding to him. But even so, these are your quotes:

    “Do you find an Apple employee? No. You find a corporate page. Send an email there. Does it go to the right person? I have no idea. Certainly bloggers who’ve tried that recently due to Apple’s rebooting problems are getting unstatisfactory answers.”

    “#25: should I link to all the people who have rebooting problems on their Macbooks? Oh, actually I have.

    And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options?”

    “yeah, Cupertino ships computers that reboot often (my ex wife has a MacBook and it’s already rebooted). They also did stock option back dating, which is threatening to become a big story for Apple execs, including Steve Jobs. And my new MacPro’s Apple software has crashed twice in its first 10 days of life.”

    Seems to me you aren’t interested in a conversation if you are claiming you didn’t say the things you did say. If they are unrelated, then they are meaningless comments. If, however, they are somehow RELATED to this discussion, how is it now invalid to ask how a blog would help these matters?

  92. Scoble, are you on crack? If you are referring to my last post, since I was quoting Dominic, I think I was responding to him. But even so, these are your quotes:

    “Do you find an Apple employee? No. You find a corporate page. Send an email there. Does it go to the right person? I have no idea. Certainly bloggers who’ve tried that recently due to Apple’s rebooting problems are getting unstatisfactory answers.”

    “#25: should I link to all the people who have rebooting problems on their Macbooks? Oh, actually I have.

    And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options?”

    “yeah, Cupertino ships computers that reboot often (my ex wife has a MacBook and it’s already rebooted). They also did stock option back dating, which is threatening to become a big story for Apple execs, including Steve Jobs. And my new MacPro’s Apple software has crashed twice in its first 10 days of life.”

    Seems to me you aren’t interested in a conversation if you are claiming you didn’t say the things you did say. If they are unrelated, then they are meaningless comments. If, however, they are somehow RELATED to this discussion, how is it now invalid to ask how a blog would help these matters?

  93. “You’re obviously familiar with Apple, but most people, including on Wall Street, are not.”

    No, Wall Street is perfectly well informed with everything I mentioned. Claiming they aren’t is to be misinformed.

    “Apple’s stock sank on the stock options news for one reason only. It started with a report called “Risks of options irregularities at Apple (and Pixar)” by Merrill Lynch’s Richard Farmer.”

    No, not one reason only. Not just concern about Jobs. It’s called financial restatements and any financial controvery. And Sank? They went from 67 to 64. Guess what the price is now? 80+

    Essentially, you are showing that you are poorly informed: maybe you should read some other sources besides BLOGS.

    “Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs. That’s the widely held perception, as evidence by how the market reacted when Steve Job’s name was brought up as possibly being ousted over options issues.

    So, right or wrong, this perception is a problem for Apple. Perception is reality.”

    This is a crude and simplistic perception often conveyed in blogs. How would a developer’s blog at Apple change that exactly?

    Or more significantly, why do the blogging “elite” take such exception to this one company only? Is it because they are perfectly successful withOUT using their lifeline?

  94. “You’re obviously familiar with Apple, but most people, including on Wall Street, are not.”

    No, Wall Street is perfectly well informed with everything I mentioned. Claiming they aren’t is to be misinformed.

    “Apple’s stock sank on the stock options news for one reason only. It started with a report called “Risks of options irregularities at Apple (and Pixar)” by Merrill Lynch’s Richard Farmer.”

    No, not one reason only. Not just concern about Jobs. It’s called financial restatements and any financial controvery. And Sank? They went from 67 to 64. Guess what the price is now? 80+

    Essentially, you are showing that you are poorly informed: maybe you should read some other sources besides BLOGS.

    “Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs. That’s the widely held perception, as evidence by how the market reacted when Steve Job’s name was brought up as possibly being ousted over options issues.

    So, right or wrong, this perception is a problem for Apple. Perception is reality.”

    This is a crude and simplistic perception often conveyed in blogs. How would a developer’s blog at Apple change that exactly?

    Or more significantly, why do the blogging “elite” take such exception to this one company only? Is it because they are perfectly successful withOUT using their lifeline?

  95. Come on folks. Robert is not attacking and I am not defending Apple. That kind of name calling might add jest to *personal* conversations but it does degrade *public* conversations. People with opposing views are neither attackers nor defenders. An opinion doesn’t define a whole person, not even a whole facet in my case.

    The reason I comment on Robert’s posts is because a) I like the kind of conversations he starts, b) his readership is nicely balanced, and c) he is a nice guy. Not unlike small town barbershops where people talk in leisure and is remembered later with fond memories, I think everyone should appreciate having a place where you can go to find interesting conversations.

  96. Come on folks. Robert is not attacking and I am not defending Apple. That kind of name calling might add jest to *personal* conversations but it does degrade *public* conversations. People with opposing views are neither attackers nor defenders. An opinion doesn’t define a whole person, not even a whole facet in my case.

    The reason I comment on Robert’s posts is because a) I like the kind of conversations he starts, b) his readership is nicely balanced, and c) he is a nice guy. Not unlike small town barbershops where people talk in leisure and is remembered later with fond memories, I think everyone should appreciate having a place where you can go to find interesting conversations.

  97. This might be a duplicate post because my earlier seem to vanish into Robert’s Askimet.

    Goebbels,

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. You think The Street is informed, which is wrong.

    Here’s a great piece by Barron’s blogger Eric Savitz on how the Street perceives Apple, Jobs and the options issue:

    Apple Shares Rise As Investors Express Relief Over Jobs’ Retention
    “Despite Apple’s (AAPL) revelation on Wednesday that the company has found 15 instances of options backdating- some of which CEO Steve Jobs knew about – investors have bid up the company’s shares this morning, apparently relieved that Jobs is still running the company.

    “Nevermind the fact that former CFO Fred Anderson quit the board, or that financial restatements are coming, or that two former execs apprently involved in the backdating have been ID’d in the probe – the conventional wisdom is that the reference is to Anderson and former general counsel Nancy Heinen – and the information turned over to the SEC. The key is, Jobs, at least for the moment, seems to have dodged personal resposibility for what happened.

    Some comments from this morning:

    * Shaw Wu, American Technology Research:To us, this sounds very similar to Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) where Mark Hurd admitted he was aware of the investigations, but wasn’t aware that the activities were potentially illegal…We continue to believe that even in the worst case scenario where AAPL is guilty of improper options grants, we do not believe Steve Jobs is liable, the reason being the compensation committee at AAPL is run by an independent board that is not comprised of employees of AAPL.
    * Benjamin Reitzes, UBS: We believe the financial impact on Apple will be minimal…While CEO Steve Jobs was aware of some favorable grant dates, he did not receive or benefit from these grants. It seems to us that he was likely unaware of the accounting implications (deduced from Apple’s disclosures). While we may hear a bit more about this issue in the news, we continue to operate under the view that Jobs is on solid ground based on the current facts.
    * Richard Farmer, Merrill Lynch: Not Jobs’ finest hour but he likely stays CEO, in our opinion…assuming regulators concur with the assertion that he was unaware of accounting implications, and other matters. We do not believe the question of personal benefit from options irregularities to be as important as whether Jobs knowingly engaged in personal misconduct (e.g., encouraged accounting to deviate from stated procedures), neither of which appears to have happened, according to Apple’s investigation…Some risks persist: the possibility that regulators’ findings and conclusions may not concur with those of the special committee of the company; unresolved potential issues during Jobs’ tenure at Pixar; restatement risk; delisting risk….We continue to recommend share of Apple, with a price objective of $88.

    You see, it’s all about Jobs. Now at some point Jobs will leave Apple. Question is, who will replace him and what do we know about him or her? Blogs could help with this succession issue, which is amplified by Jobs’ larger-than-life persona. If you don’t understand this by now, I can’t make you.

  98. This might be a duplicate post because my earlier seem to vanish into Robert’s Askimet.

    Goebbels,

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. You think The Street is informed, which is wrong.

    Here’s a great piece by Barron’s blogger Eric Savitz on how the Street perceives Apple, Jobs and the options issue:

    Apple Shares Rise As Investors Express Relief Over Jobs’ Retention
    “Despite Apple’s (AAPL) revelation on Wednesday that the company has found 15 instances of options backdating- some of which CEO Steve Jobs knew about – investors have bid up the company’s shares this morning, apparently relieved that Jobs is still running the company.

    “Nevermind the fact that former CFO Fred Anderson quit the board, or that financial restatements are coming, or that two former execs apprently involved in the backdating have been ID’d in the probe – the conventional wisdom is that the reference is to Anderson and former general counsel Nancy Heinen – and the information turned over to the SEC. The key is, Jobs, at least for the moment, seems to have dodged personal resposibility for what happened.

    Some comments from this morning:

    * Shaw Wu, American Technology Research:To us, this sounds very similar to Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) where Mark Hurd admitted he was aware of the investigations, but wasn’t aware that the activities were potentially illegal…We continue to believe that even in the worst case scenario where AAPL is guilty of improper options grants, we do not believe Steve Jobs is liable, the reason being the compensation committee at AAPL is run by an independent board that is not comprised of employees of AAPL.
    * Benjamin Reitzes, UBS: We believe the financial impact on Apple will be minimal…While CEO Steve Jobs was aware of some favorable grant dates, he did not receive or benefit from these grants. It seems to us that he was likely unaware of the accounting implications (deduced from Apple’s disclosures). While we may hear a bit more about this issue in the news, we continue to operate under the view that Jobs is on solid ground based on the current facts.
    * Richard Farmer, Merrill Lynch: Not Jobs’ finest hour but he likely stays CEO, in our opinion…assuming regulators concur with the assertion that he was unaware of accounting implications, and other matters. We do not believe the question of personal benefit from options irregularities to be as important as whether Jobs knowingly engaged in personal misconduct (e.g., encouraged accounting to deviate from stated procedures), neither of which appears to have happened, according to Apple’s investigation…Some risks persist: the possibility that regulators’ findings and conclusions may not concur with those of the special committee of the company; unresolved potential issues during Jobs’ tenure at Pixar; restatement risk; delisting risk….We continue to recommend share of Apple, with a price objective of $88.

    You see, it’s all about Jobs. Now at some point Jobs will leave Apple. Question is, who will replace him and what do we know about him or her? Blogs could help with this succession issue, which is amplified by Jobs’ larger-than-life persona. If you don’t understand this by now, I can’t make you.

  99. Dominic, I can search the web for posts specifically about someone too… So what? Of course, any analyst will be concerned about the CEO… they aren’t going to be concerned that Chuqui left the company. Again, so what? What has been the response on Wall Street?

    They remain UP. Way up in comparison to the rest of the sector. So where’s the problem.

    As for claiming that blogs will somehow answer the succession issue, this is absurd. What company, even a company with CEO bloggers, is going to talk about executive succession plans before there is an actual transition? Answer: Zero.

    Secondly, are you arguing that low-level employee blogs will give some insight? That seems unlikely. Why would any of the thousands of Apple employees know? Only the top 5 execs and Board will know. If you are arguing for Exec blogs, Microsoft has a problem.

    And, finally, please explain how a blog is more effective at answering a succession issue than standard reporting, financial statements, and a ton of other sources. It simply is not so.

    Sure, you like blogs. We’d like to hear more from inside Apple, sure. That’s nice. But claiming that the lack of blogs from within Apple specifically about work within Apple creates a problem is absurd. It’s a huge leap that makes no sense. Apple has one of the best images in the industry. Companies with blogs have far worse images. Simple.

    So… no, I guess I don’t understand. I’m perfectly aware that analysts cover Apple. I’m perfectly aware that they would express concern about a very effective, powerful, and magnanimous CEO. I’m also completely aware that Wall Street is very happy with Apple and that any stock concerns have been dealt with through financial statements, investigations, and what not. I do not see how you’ve created anything close to a logical argument that a blog would eliminate or solve any of their concerns or that there is any sort of perception issue outside of a small community of whiny bloggers who want more juice… and to have their medium validated. If you can make that argument, I’m happy to hear it.

  100. Dominic, I can search the web for posts specifically about someone too… So what? Of course, any analyst will be concerned about the CEO… they aren’t going to be concerned that Chuqui left the company. Again, so what? What has been the response on Wall Street?

    They remain UP. Way up in comparison to the rest of the sector. So where’s the problem.

    As for claiming that blogs will somehow answer the succession issue, this is absurd. What company, even a company with CEO bloggers, is going to talk about executive succession plans before there is an actual transition? Answer: Zero.

    Secondly, are you arguing that low-level employee blogs will give some insight? That seems unlikely. Why would any of the thousands of Apple employees know? Only the top 5 execs and Board will know. If you are arguing for Exec blogs, Microsoft has a problem.

    And, finally, please explain how a blog is more effective at answering a succession issue than standard reporting, financial statements, and a ton of other sources. It simply is not so.

    Sure, you like blogs. We’d like to hear more from inside Apple, sure. That’s nice. But claiming that the lack of blogs from within Apple specifically about work within Apple creates a problem is absurd. It’s a huge leap that makes no sense. Apple has one of the best images in the industry. Companies with blogs have far worse images. Simple.

    So… no, I guess I don’t understand. I’m perfectly aware that analysts cover Apple. I’m perfectly aware that they would express concern about a very effective, powerful, and magnanimous CEO. I’m also completely aware that Wall Street is very happy with Apple and that any stock concerns have been dealt with through financial statements, investigations, and what not. I do not see how you’ve created anything close to a logical argument that a blog would eliminate or solve any of their concerns or that there is any sort of perception issue outside of a small community of whiny bloggers who want more juice… and to have their medium validated. If you can make that argument, I’m happy to hear it.

  101. Heesh!

    Apple has a problem that blogs could help fix. Their problem is that the stock is heavily hinged on a perception that the company is nothing without Jobs.

    That perception isn’t only mine or just bloggers’, but it is held by the investment analysts who follow the company closely.

    I gave you three comments from Wall Street analysts that demonstrate that their concern is Jobs’ future, not the restatements. I gave you these because you said Jobs wasn’t the issue in the options scandal, that restatements were. You were wrong.

    So the perception of Steve Jobs as the main reason behind Apple’s recent success is perhaps the biggest single risk facing the company from an investment perspective. If he goes, the stock will suffer, and that will damage the company in other areas… low morale etc

    Blogs by Apple executives could help to build profile for people other than Jobs. The could put different faces and personalities to the company. This could help people understand that while he’s important, Apple is more than Steve Jobs.

    I’ve only said I think executive blogs would be good for Apple. I never said other blogs would be valuable. But I’m not saying they’re not valuable either.

    Goebbels, you’re a troll and have added no value here.

  102. Heesh!

    Apple has a problem that blogs could help fix. Their problem is that the stock is heavily hinged on a perception that the company is nothing without Jobs.

    That perception isn’t only mine or just bloggers’, but it is held by the investment analysts who follow the company closely.

    I gave you three comments from Wall Street analysts that demonstrate that their concern is Jobs’ future, not the restatements. I gave you these because you said Jobs wasn’t the issue in the options scandal, that restatements were. You were wrong.

    So the perception of Steve Jobs as the main reason behind Apple’s recent success is perhaps the biggest single risk facing the company from an investment perspective. If he goes, the stock will suffer, and that will damage the company in other areas… low morale etc

    Blogs by Apple executives could help to build profile for people other than Jobs. The could put different faces and personalities to the company. This could help people understand that while he’s important, Apple is more than Steve Jobs.

    I’ve only said I think executive blogs would be good for Apple. I never said other blogs would be valuable. But I’m not saying they’re not valuable either.

    Goebbels, you’re a troll and have added no value here.

  103. “Apple has a problem that blogs could help fix.”

    How? You haven’t explained yet.

    “Their problem is that the stock is heavily hinged on a perception that the company is nothing without Jobs.”

    If this is their ONE “problem”, it’s not a problem. There stock is doing EXCELLENT.

    “I gave you three comments from Wall Street analysts that demonstrate that their concern is Jobs’ future, not the restatements.”

    No, actually, all of your quotes said it probably was no concern at all.

    “I gave you these because you said Jobs wasn’t the issue in the options scandal, that restatements were. You were wrong.”

    No, I said there were multiple concerns. You are trying to force your own subjective interpretation on these statements that say, “Looks like there is no concern” (and they are paid to consider any risks) to mean they are concerned Jobs will go away and without Jobs they will be in trouble.

    “So the perception of Steve Jobs as the main reason behind Apple’s recent success is perhaps the biggest single risk facing the company from an investment perspective.”

    This is your belief alone. I do not see any analyst saying they are concerned about Apple or its stock because all of its success is due to Jobs.

    “If he goes, the stock will suffer, and that will damage the company in other areas… low morale etc”

    All theory and speculation. And, again, how the hell does a blog change that. If Apple had 5,000 blogs and Jobs died tomorrow, there’s still a problem.

    “Blogs by Apple executives could help to build profile for people other than Jobs.”

    And they could NOT. Also, I have a “profile” of Cook, Schiller, Ives, Oppenheimer, and Serlet without having blogs.

    “This could help people understand that while he’s important, Apple is more than Steve Jobs.”

    And what if Apple wants everyone to think that it is all Jobs? I bet Jobs and Apple are perfectly happy with this perception currently.

    “I’ve only said I think executive blogs would be good for Apple.”

    And, again, why are we talking about Apple then? MS, Google, and others have blogs, but most of them do not have executive blogs (excepting Sun). Scoble seems to be talking about low-level staff, not executives. I’m sorry if my arguments (with both of you) seem to be at cross purposes; however, if we are only discussing exec blogs then that has its own unique problems and specifically calling out Apple is absurd. 99% of all companies do not have exec blogs and for very good reasons.

    “Goebbels, you’re a troll and have added no value here. ”

    Oh, shut up. Why are you talking to me then? I’ve added more to this post than anyone. A troll does not do that.

    Here is a summary of points that began with this post and/or that I would like to make.

    It is a MYTH that Apple does not have or does not allow bloggers.

    It is a MYTH that Apple does not have a blog policy; it is the same as their communication policy which applies to everyone in all media forms.

    Even though it is specific policy that no employees should act as spokesmen, there are blogs at Apple which do specifically address internal issues and products (like the Safari blog for example).

    (Now my points specifically:)

    There are pros and cons to all media including blogging; bloggers like to pretend that cons don’t exist for blogs.

    There are pros and cons to having an open communication policy and there are pros and cons to having a singular, controlled, and directed communication policy. Blogging does not negate having a controlled communication policy.

    Blogging does not trump all other modes of communication. You can’t pretend there is no communication because you like blogs better than PR, interviews, forums, mail lists, discussion groups, events, etc… but sorry, blogs are not special.

    Even if you have internal blogs, you still have issues.

    Bloggers like to pretend Apple has some unique problem because they are both the most controlling of their own message and the most effective in the market at communicating and maintaining a positive perception.

    Now, if you’d like to bitch a Ballmer and others for their stock woes and lack of exec blogs have fun. I will still argue that they are unnecessary and that blogs are overblown.

  104. “Apple has a problem that blogs could help fix.”

    How? You haven’t explained yet.

    “Their problem is that the stock is heavily hinged on a perception that the company is nothing without Jobs.”

    If this is their ONE “problem”, it’s not a problem. There stock is doing EXCELLENT.

    “I gave you three comments from Wall Street analysts that demonstrate that their concern is Jobs’ future, not the restatements.”

    No, actually, all of your quotes said it probably was no concern at all.

    “I gave you these because you said Jobs wasn’t the issue in the options scandal, that restatements were. You were wrong.”

    No, I said there were multiple concerns. You are trying to force your own subjective interpretation on these statements that say, “Looks like there is no concern” (and they are paid to consider any risks) to mean they are concerned Jobs will go away and without Jobs they will be in trouble.

    “So the perception of Steve Jobs as the main reason behind Apple’s recent success is perhaps the biggest single risk facing the company from an investment perspective.”

    This is your belief alone. I do not see any analyst saying they are concerned about Apple or its stock because all of its success is due to Jobs.

    “If he goes, the stock will suffer, and that will damage the company in other areas… low morale etc”

    All theory and speculation. And, again, how the hell does a blog change that. If Apple had 5,000 blogs and Jobs died tomorrow, there’s still a problem.

    “Blogs by Apple executives could help to build profile for people other than Jobs.”

    And they could NOT. Also, I have a “profile” of Cook, Schiller, Ives, Oppenheimer, and Serlet without having blogs.

    “This could help people understand that while he’s important, Apple is more than Steve Jobs.”

    And what if Apple wants everyone to think that it is all Jobs? I bet Jobs and Apple are perfectly happy with this perception currently.

    “I’ve only said I think executive blogs would be good for Apple.”

    And, again, why are we talking about Apple then? MS, Google, and others have blogs, but most of them do not have executive blogs (excepting Sun). Scoble seems to be talking about low-level staff, not executives. I’m sorry if my arguments (with both of you) seem to be at cross purposes; however, if we are only discussing exec blogs then that has its own unique problems and specifically calling out Apple is absurd. 99% of all companies do not have exec blogs and for very good reasons.

    “Goebbels, you’re a troll and have added no value here. ”

    Oh, shut up. Why are you talking to me then? I’ve added more to this post than anyone. A troll does not do that.

    Here is a summary of points that began with this post and/or that I would like to make.

    It is a MYTH that Apple does not have or does not allow bloggers.

    It is a MYTH that Apple does not have a blog policy; it is the same as their communication policy which applies to everyone in all media forms.

    Even though it is specific policy that no employees should act as spokesmen, there are blogs at Apple which do specifically address internal issues and products (like the Safari blog for example).

    (Now my points specifically:)

    There are pros and cons to all media including blogging; bloggers like to pretend that cons don’t exist for blogs.

    There are pros and cons to having an open communication policy and there are pros and cons to having a singular, controlled, and directed communication policy. Blogging does not negate having a controlled communication policy.

    Blogging does not trump all other modes of communication. You can’t pretend there is no communication because you like blogs better than PR, interviews, forums, mail lists, discussion groups, events, etc… but sorry, blogs are not special.

    Even if you have internal blogs, you still have issues.

    Bloggers like to pretend Apple has some unique problem because they are both the most controlling of their own message and the most effective in the market at communicating and maintaining a positive perception.

    Now, if you’d like to bitch a Ballmer and others for their stock woes and lack of exec blogs have fun. I will still argue that they are unnecessary and that blogs are overblown.

  105. Consider these questions:

    MS has crap loads of blogs, do I have any idea who succeeds him? NO.

    MS has crap loads of blogs, many specific to IE… they have even asked for tons of feedback, does that change my perception that IE is a load of crap and that they have got all the feedback in the world to make it better (prior to and despite their calls for input)? NO.

    So… specific to the only two examples ever raised in this entire post about Apple, how is MS any better for having blogs?

    They aren’t. Silly bloggers think they are validated and some people perceive a more open company (but this is only within the relatively small community of bloggers and blogreaders)… The rest of the world still has the same perception concerns. And even many readers like myself and others posting here still feel they have issues which have not been addressed by blogs. So what’s so special? What’s so problematic for Apple (particularly when they have one of the best perceptions of any company in the world and are one of the most successful)?

    Is it so hard to see where I’m coming from?

  106. Consider these questions:

    MS has crap loads of blogs, do I have any idea who succeeds him? NO.

    MS has crap loads of blogs, many specific to IE… they have even asked for tons of feedback, does that change my perception that IE is a load of crap and that they have got all the feedback in the world to make it better (prior to and despite their calls for input)? NO.

    So… specific to the only two examples ever raised in this entire post about Apple, how is MS any better for having blogs?

    They aren’t. Silly bloggers think they are validated and some people perceive a more open company (but this is only within the relatively small community of bloggers and blogreaders)… The rest of the world still has the same perception concerns. And even many readers like myself and others posting here still feel they have issues which have not been addressed by blogs. So what’s so special? What’s so problematic for Apple (particularly when they have one of the best perceptions of any company in the world and are one of the most successful)?

    Is it so hard to see where I’m coming from?

  107. #49: Robert, Ray Bolger would be proud.

    I don’t think a weblog’s going to fix the Macbook issue. I’d place my money on revised firmware.

  108. #49: Robert, Ray Bolger would be proud.

    I don’t think a weblog’s going to fix the Macbook issue. I’d place my money on revised firmware.

  109. “MS has crap loads of blogs, do I have any idea who succeeds him? NO.”

    I meant to throw “Ballmer” in there somewhere obviously. Sorry about that.

  110. “MS has crap loads of blogs, do I have any idea who succeeds him? NO.”

    I meant to throw “Ballmer” in there somewhere obviously. Sorry about that.

  111. John: I’ve done thousands of searches, and so have those of us who work in the forum business (you do realize that I ran a forum as well as a blog at Microsoft, right?) and to claim that forums show up in Google searches as well as blogs is just false. Absolutely false.

    So when I do searches on Open Directory issues, I’m NOT seeing hits to various tech forums in the same proportion that forums exist to other web sites

    See robert, this is where you work your “magic”. I did not absolutely state that forums show up in google searches as well as blogs or other web sites. What I said was, (and really, it’s from your own Web Site, you should really try reading it more):

    The difference is, there’s a lot more NON-forum content, so that will, unsurprisingly, show up more than the forums will. But stop trying to push the idea that Google overlooks forums. It’s just not correct.

    You’re trying to insinuate that forums are somehow overlooked by Google. Wrong. What does happen is that because non-forum content VASTLY outnumbers forum content, you see far more non-forum hits on a Google search. Oh wait, that’s a lot more reasonable than what you accuse me of saying. Because I didn’t say what you accuse me of.

    And, yes, PodTech sucks when it comes to blogging.

    Hmm…so maybe you should put your own house in order before you point the finger at Apple? You look rather toolish otherwise. Or, to wax biblical, “Remove the beam from thine own eye before thou pointest out the mote in mine”. At least Apple has a page with their executive staff clearly listed on it, what’s PodTech’s excuse?

    Who the heck else is there at the company if he were to be taken out because of stock option abuses. I can’t name single senior executive who could fill his shoes.

    Obviously, they exist. But I can’t name one? I can’t see their faces? Are they scared just like everyone else at the company? Is there anyone at Apple with a bit of backbone?

    Dominic, really, at least try a little. The current second in command at Apple is Tim Cook. Here, read about him: http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/cook.html

    Note the link to photos. In fact, this link: http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/ has photos of all of Apple’s senior staff. It would appear that you can in fact, see their faces. Any other questions? (You know, for someone in the investment reporting biz, you don’t seem to be very good at finding basic information)

    Scoble, you are off your rocker if you claim Google doesn’t search forum results.

    Goebbels, it’s just Robert being annoyed with me, because I have a Blog, sign my own name, and question his authoratay. You’re far easier to dismiss :-P

    Blogs by Apple executives could help to build profile for people other than Jobs. The could put different faces and personalities to the company. This could help people understand that while he’s important, Apple is more than Steve Jobs.

    Pfft. nonsense. For one, where’s the great number of major tech company CEO blogs. There’s Jonathan Schwartz at Sun. Okay. But: No Ballmer, No Gates, No Hurd and so on.

    How many people STILL think of Microsoft and Bill Gates as being one and the same? More than you want to think. Tell me why all the Microsoft blogs haven’t fixed that.

    Of course, that fact that your blog is one of the ways you keep your perceived professional value, just like Robert, (only perhaps not as single – mindedly) would have nothing to do with your insistence that somehow, a blog would help Apple’s stock price, (80.41 as of friday, care to compare that to Microsoft’s? Blogs don’t seem to matter there), Apple’s rep, (um, it’s as good/bad as ever. Blogs don’t seem to matter there), or whatever else you think the magic spell of the blog will do for Apple that they are doing now without bloggers.

    Let’s see, could Apple improve its communications? Undoubtedly. Are blogs the only, or even necessarily the best way to do that. No, not even close. They’re just one way to do that. That’s all. You and Robert really need to stop confusing the tool for the tool box. They are not in fact the same.

    Your insistence that Apple’s chief executives not writing about how cool they and Apple are is somehow hurting them from an investment perspective is rather inane when you look at Apple’s stock price over the last 3 months, (up over $15 a share), the last six months, (up over $10 a share), the last year, (up around $20 a share), the last two years, (up by something like $40 a share), or the last five years, (Up by what, $70 a share?). You may not like how Apple does things, but when you look at the stock price (up), their product line, (continuous improvements), hell, even their market share is up around 5%, a really huge accomplishment when you think about it…well, your argument that they need blogs is rather weak.

    Meanwhile, let’s look at the poster child blogging company, Microsoft: Oh dear. Rather um…not good. Oh, how about Sun: Oh, that’s ugly. Now that’s not to say that all companies that blog suck. Google’s stock isn’t making anyone cry.

    But stop with the blogging fanboyism. It’s lame.

  112. John: I’ve done thousands of searches, and so have those of us who work in the forum business (you do realize that I ran a forum as well as a blog at Microsoft, right?) and to claim that forums show up in Google searches as well as blogs is just false. Absolutely false.

    So when I do searches on Open Directory issues, I’m NOT seeing hits to various tech forums in the same proportion that forums exist to other web sites

    See robert, this is where you work your “magic”. I did not absolutely state that forums show up in google searches as well as blogs or other web sites. What I said was, (and really, it’s from your own Web Site, you should really try reading it more):

    The difference is, there’s a lot more NON-forum content, so that will, unsurprisingly, show up more than the forums will. But stop trying to push the idea that Google overlooks forums. It’s just not correct.

    You’re trying to insinuate that forums are somehow overlooked by Google. Wrong. What does happen is that because non-forum content VASTLY outnumbers forum content, you see far more non-forum hits on a Google search. Oh wait, that’s a lot more reasonable than what you accuse me of saying. Because I didn’t say what you accuse me of.

    And, yes, PodTech sucks when it comes to blogging.

    Hmm…so maybe you should put your own house in order before you point the finger at Apple? You look rather toolish otherwise. Or, to wax biblical, “Remove the beam from thine own eye before thou pointest out the mote in mine”. At least Apple has a page with their executive staff clearly listed on it, what’s PodTech’s excuse?

    Who the heck else is there at the company if he were to be taken out because of stock option abuses. I can’t name single senior executive who could fill his shoes.

    Obviously, they exist. But I can’t name one? I can’t see their faces? Are they scared just like everyone else at the company? Is there anyone at Apple with a bit of backbone?

    Dominic, really, at least try a little. The current second in command at Apple is Tim Cook. Here, read about him: http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/cook.html

    Note the link to photos. In fact, this link: http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/ has photos of all of Apple’s senior staff. It would appear that you can in fact, see their faces. Any other questions? (You know, for someone in the investment reporting biz, you don’t seem to be very good at finding basic information)

    Scoble, you are off your rocker if you claim Google doesn’t search forum results.

    Goebbels, it’s just Robert being annoyed with me, because I have a Blog, sign my own name, and question his authoratay. You’re far easier to dismiss :-P

    Blogs by Apple executives could help to build profile for people other than Jobs. The could put different faces and personalities to the company. This could help people understand that while he’s important, Apple is more than Steve Jobs.

    Pfft. nonsense. For one, where’s the great number of major tech company CEO blogs. There’s Jonathan Schwartz at Sun. Okay. But: No Ballmer, No Gates, No Hurd and so on.

    How many people STILL think of Microsoft and Bill Gates as being one and the same? More than you want to think. Tell me why all the Microsoft blogs haven’t fixed that.

    Of course, that fact that your blog is one of the ways you keep your perceived professional value, just like Robert, (only perhaps not as single – mindedly) would have nothing to do with your insistence that somehow, a blog would help Apple’s stock price, (80.41 as of friday, care to compare that to Microsoft’s? Blogs don’t seem to matter there), Apple’s rep, (um, it’s as good/bad as ever. Blogs don’t seem to matter there), or whatever else you think the magic spell of the blog will do for Apple that they are doing now without bloggers.

    Let’s see, could Apple improve its communications? Undoubtedly. Are blogs the only, or even necessarily the best way to do that. No, not even close. They’re just one way to do that. That’s all. You and Robert really need to stop confusing the tool for the tool box. They are not in fact the same.

    Your insistence that Apple’s chief executives not writing about how cool they and Apple are is somehow hurting them from an investment perspective is rather inane when you look at Apple’s stock price over the last 3 months, (up over $15 a share), the last six months, (up over $10 a share), the last year, (up around $20 a share), the last two years, (up by something like $40 a share), or the last five years, (Up by what, $70 a share?). You may not like how Apple does things, but when you look at the stock price (up), their product line, (continuous improvements), hell, even their market share is up around 5%, a really huge accomplishment when you think about it…well, your argument that they need blogs is rather weak.

    Meanwhile, let’s look at the poster child blogging company, Microsoft: Oh dear. Rather um…not good. Oh, how about Sun: Oh, that’s ugly. Now that’s not to say that all companies that blog suck. Google’s stock isn’t making anyone cry.

    But stop with the blogging fanboyism. It’s lame.

  113. Sean, the North East is under massive gale force winds and I’m watching football, drinking beers, and laughing at these posts… with a couple of friends and my father. (In case you were concerned about my free time/ socialability.)

  114. Sean, the North East is under massive gale force winds and I’m watching football, drinking beers, and laughing at these posts… with a couple of friends and my father. (In case you were concerned about my free time/ socialability.)

  115. [...] Recently, an ex-Apple person, Chuq von Rospach, wrote eloquently and sincerely about this, and Scoble, who was basically Microsoft’s first blogger (and a former employee of mine at UserLand) called him on it, and I have some facts that aren’t part of either of their stories, I was there at the dawn of Apple’s blogging policy, on two occasions, and imho the truth is closer to what Scoble says that to what Chuq says. [...]

  116. “And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options? http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/10/16/is-apples-options-scandal-over/

    Sure, Apple is doing just fine without blogging”

    I think they are. Look at their latest quarter results. Regarding the stock options. Steve himself apologized for this. He didn’t apologize in his blog? Who cares? He did so. And nothing will come of this than what’s already happened. This is another nice media (and blog) story. Gives them print.

    The rebooting issues? There’s a firmware update out which Apple say should fix this. We’ll give it time to see if it does. They’ve acknowledged the problem, released an update. Done. So what if it wasn’t talked about on some employee’s blog? Blogs aren’t everything. It seems like some bloggers have a mightier-than-thou attitude these days. Hey, we’re better than the “old school” press, blah blah blah. I’ve seen tonnes of blogs with inaccuracies, misinformation. So don’t cry when the real press fires back questioning bloggers. :)

    This whole idea that, hey blogging is it, all companies should blog and blogging will fix it. That’s overstating it.

    As some others have mentioned, there’s a vibrant discussion going on at Apple. discussions.apple.com is the place to go.

    Some companies just blog to try and improve their image. Microsoft I’m looking at you. Their image sucks. So what are they trying to do? Get lots of bloggers out there. Their image still sucks.

    “Apple has a problem that blogs could help fix.’

    This was the best line. Got a problem? A blog will fix it! :)

  117. “And should I get into Steve Jobs’ problem with stock options? http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2006/10/16/is-apples-options-scandal-over/

    Sure, Apple is doing just fine without blogging”

    I think they are. Look at their latest quarter results. Regarding the stock options. Steve himself apologized for this. He didn’t apologize in his blog? Who cares? He did so. And nothing will come of this than what’s already happened. This is another nice media (and blog) story. Gives them print.

    The rebooting issues? There’s a firmware update out which Apple say should fix this. We’ll give it time to see if it does. They’ve acknowledged the problem, released an update. Done. So what if it wasn’t talked about on some employee’s blog? Blogs aren’t everything. It seems like some bloggers have a mightier-than-thou attitude these days. Hey, we’re better than the “old school” press, blah blah blah. I’ve seen tonnes of blogs with inaccuracies, misinformation. So don’t cry when the real press fires back questioning bloggers. :)

    This whole idea that, hey blogging is it, all companies should blog and blogging will fix it. That’s overstating it.

    As some others have mentioned, there’s a vibrant discussion going on at Apple. discussions.apple.com is the place to go.

    Some companies just blog to try and improve their image. Microsoft I’m looking at you. Their image sucks. So what are they trying to do? Get lots of bloggers out there. Their image still sucks.

    “Apple has a problem that blogs could help fix.’

    This was the best line. Got a problem? A blog will fix it! :)

  118. [...] Well its some classic corporate blogging action that I’m looking forward to.  Some cultures (read: APPLE) simply do not allow their employees to blog about the company.  Looks like Intel may buck that trend through Tinyscreenfuls.  If its successful, perhaps, like Microsoft, it can generate a sense of goodwill, integrity and trust that ad-dollars just can’t pay for.  Provided, of course, that it sticks to being an honest blog (cough, cough Wal-mart!). [...]

  119. Scoble, is it even REMOTELY possible that you can see where blogging my not actually help a company? And that it could be a waste of company resources? Are you even willing to entertain that other side of the argument? Sure, blogging can be helpful to some companies, but I think the larger the company the less impact blogging on the company.

  120. Scoble, is it even REMOTELY possible that you can see where blogging my not actually help a company? And that it could be a waste of company resources? Are you even willing to entertain that other side of the argument? Sure, blogging can be helpful to some companies, but I think the larger the company the less impact blogging on the company.

  121. Ah, great! We get to have Winer stick his head into it again: Chuq is wrong, Scoble is right (even though he doesn’t dispute anything Chuqui says, only goes further to say its not enough) and HE WAS THERE!

    Brilliant! Winer, Chuq is saying: anything that Apple may want to control (to say through Jobs or some other vehicle… or something it doesn’t want said) cannot be disseminated by an employee not authorized to do so. Simple. In which case, Scoble did act as a spokesperson. Second, you weren’t THERE when this policy was formed. Jobs talked to you and someone sent you a story (and you were a part of many, many examples of an attempt to eliminate leaks). Jesus, you don’t have to inject yourself into every single blogging story… Scoble will always kiss your ass. No need to misconstrue and conflate a story you have nothing to do with.

  122. Ah, great! We get to have Winer stick his head into it again: Chuq is wrong, Scoble is right (even though he doesn’t dispute anything Chuqui says, only goes further to say its not enough) and HE WAS THERE!

    Brilliant! Winer, Chuq is saying: anything that Apple may want to control (to say through Jobs or some other vehicle… or something it doesn’t want said) cannot be disseminated by an employee not authorized to do so. Simple. In which case, Scoble did act as a spokesperson. Second, you weren’t THERE when this policy was formed. Jobs talked to you and someone sent you a story (and you were a part of many, many examples of an attempt to eliminate leaks). Jesus, you don’t have to inject yourself into every single blogging story… Scoble will always kiss your ass. No need to misconstrue and conflate a story you have nothing to do with.

  123. LayZ: >>Scoble, is it even REMOTELY possible that you can see where blogging my not actually help a company?

    Yes. But then I could see how answering the phone might not actually help your company if you didn’t do it right either.

  124. LayZ: >>Scoble, is it even REMOTELY possible that you can see where blogging my not actually help a company?

    Yes. But then I could see how answering the phone might not actually help your company if you didn’t do it right either.

  125. @61 “I said blogs could help Apple address the common perception that Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs.”

    Puh..leeze. The people that have that perception are likely very out of touch and likely haven’t much of a clue of what a blog is. Those that are familiar enough with what a blog is likely know how to figure out the Apple chain of command.

  126. @61 “I said blogs could help Apple address the common perception that Apple is nothing without Steve Jobs.”

    Puh..leeze. The people that have that perception are likely very out of touch and likely haven’t much of a clue of what a blog is. Those that are familiar enough with what a blog is likely know how to figure out the Apple chain of command.

  127. @65. And at some point Ballmer will leave MS. What’s your point? Who will replace him? Ozzie? Johnson? Raikes, Mundie? (BTW,I found those names on the MS corporate site, not from a blog) What blog amongst the plethora of blogs that are associated with MS explains their corporate succession plan?

  128. @65. And at some point Ballmer will leave MS. What’s your point? Who will replace him? Ozzie? Johnson? Raikes, Mundie? (BTW,I found those names on the MS corporate site, not from a blog) What blog amongst the plethora of blogs that are associated with MS explains their corporate succession plan?

  129. this comments section proves two things to me:

    1: Apple fanboys and loyalists will stop at nothing to defend their precious Apple

    2: The impact of blogging (by any company) hasn’t been felt as widely as some might have previously assumed.

    Blogging has a ginormous impact, solves problems quickly, AND will be crucial and nearly required by the next generation of informed users. And if they are anything like the users of today, 90%+ won’t be using Apple machines.

    Fanboys- stop ruining conversations with your blind loyalty and defensive nature. IF anything, this is why Apple doesn’t blog, because many of its own users would make it impossible for anyone on the outside to fairly question or challenge an issue related to the company. One negative comment on an Apple blog post and BOOM! 163 fanboys biting the head of someone for even suggesting that Apple may be wrong, etc…

    Enough already, seriously. You make up a tiny % of users yet spend most of the time bashing Microsoft and defending what only 5% of the world even uses. Get that white, plastic chip off your shoulder.

    Jack

  130. this comments section proves two things to me:

    1: Apple fanboys and loyalists will stop at nothing to defend their precious Apple

    2: The impact of blogging (by any company) hasn’t been felt as widely as some might have previously assumed.

    Blogging has a ginormous impact, solves problems quickly, AND will be crucial and nearly required by the next generation of informed users. And if they are anything like the users of today, 90%+ won’t be using Apple machines.

    Fanboys- stop ruining conversations with your blind loyalty and defensive nature. IF anything, this is why Apple doesn’t blog, because many of its own users would make it impossible for anyone on the outside to fairly question or challenge an issue related to the company. One negative comment on an Apple blog post and BOOM! 163 fanboys biting the head of someone for even suggesting that Apple may be wrong, etc…

    Enough already, seriously. You make up a tiny % of users yet spend most of the time bashing Microsoft and defending what only 5% of the world even uses. Get that white, plastic chip off your shoulder.

    Jack

  131. @81. Then what’s your point? Are you finally conceding that blogging is simply another communication tool and may not be for every company? And that companies can be successful, even in the tech industry (cough! Apple! cough!) without blogging?

  132. @81. Then what’s your point? Are you finally conceding that blogging is simply another communication tool and may not be for every company? And that companies can be successful, even in the tech industry (cough! Apple! cough!) without blogging?

  133. @86 “Fanboys- stop ruining conversations with your blind loyalty and defensive nature. IF anything, this is why Apple doesn’t blog, because many of its own users would make it impossible for anyone on the outside to fairly question or challenge an issue related to the company. One negative comment on an Apple blog post and BOOM! 163 fanboys biting the head of someone for even suggesting that Apple may be wrong, etc…’

    People are ruining the conversation by questioning the value of blogging? I think many of the so-called “fanboys” have raised valid issues in questioning Scoble’s position on blogging. It has little to do with Apple and more to so with showing where the bottom line value to a company is in blogging. Is Apple being hurt by not having an official blogging policy? Wall street and investors would likely say “NO”. Is Ford, GM, Sun being helped by blogging? Again Wall Street and investors would likely say “NO”. If I remember correctly it seems last year sometime Scoble was asked the same questions by Amazon (which he failed miserably in answering). So, this has nothing to do with fan-boyism, but everything to do with questioning the overall value of blogging from a corporate perspective.

  134. @86 “Fanboys- stop ruining conversations with your blind loyalty and defensive nature. IF anything, this is why Apple doesn’t blog, because many of its own users would make it impossible for anyone on the outside to fairly question or challenge an issue related to the company. One negative comment on an Apple blog post and BOOM! 163 fanboys biting the head of someone for even suggesting that Apple may be wrong, etc…’

    People are ruining the conversation by questioning the value of blogging? I think many of the so-called “fanboys” have raised valid issues in questioning Scoble’s position on blogging. It has little to do with Apple and more to so with showing where the bottom line value to a company is in blogging. Is Apple being hurt by not having an official blogging policy? Wall street and investors would likely say “NO”. Is Ford, GM, Sun being helped by blogging? Again Wall Street and investors would likely say “NO”. If I remember correctly it seems last year sometime Scoble was asked the same questions by Amazon (which he failed miserably in answering). So, this has nothing to do with fan-boyism, but everything to do with questioning the overall value of blogging from a corporate perspective.

  135. Robert, you say you aren’t making telephones and blogs equivalent, yet, whenever someone brings up that blogs are not in fact a necessity, you trot out your phone strawman.

    You can claim whatever you want, however, your actions say different.

  136. Robert, you say you aren’t making telephones and blogs equivalent, yet, whenever someone brings up that blogs are not in fact a necessity, you trot out your phone strawman.

    You can claim whatever you want, however, your actions say different.

  137. @#89
    “Is Apple being hurt by not having an official blogging policy? Wall street and investors would likely say “NO”. Is Ford, GM, Sun being helped by blogging? Again Wall Street and investors would likely say “NO”. If I remember correctly it seems last year sometime Scoble was asked the same questions by Amazon (which he failed miserably in answering). So, this has nothing to do with fan-boyism, but everything to do with questioning the overall value of blogging from a corporate perspective.”

    You go on to further flame Scoble for something entirely unrelated that happened last year. Not to mention, in your recent post #89, you didn’t “question the value of blogging” nor did you comment on its importance in a corporate setting. Enough with the trolling please, it’s needlessly adversarial and leads to wasted time. Can you really speak on behalf of Wall Street investors? Another thing you said “wall street and investors”? Uh… typically that is the same group of people. It’s like saying “Washington and Congress” or “Deadheads and Hippies”.

    That’s the beauty of blogs, what Scoble and most others know, but what some doubters do not. Writing a blog allows that content to be reviewed and instantly digested by more people than any forum post or any press briefing. It also allows anonymous or incredibly official responses in seconds.

    OK, so it’s the Fanboys, AND trolls….

    Jack

  138. @#89
    “Is Apple being hurt by not having an official blogging policy? Wall street and investors would likely say “NO”. Is Ford, GM, Sun being helped by blogging? Again Wall Street and investors would likely say “NO”. If I remember correctly it seems last year sometime Scoble was asked the same questions by Amazon (which he failed miserably in answering). So, this has nothing to do with fan-boyism, but everything to do with questioning the overall value of blogging from a corporate perspective.”

    You go on to further flame Scoble for something entirely unrelated that happened last year. Not to mention, in your recent post #89, you didn’t “question the value of blogging” nor did you comment on its importance in a corporate setting. Enough with the trolling please, it’s needlessly adversarial and leads to wasted time. Can you really speak on behalf of Wall Street investors? Another thing you said “wall street and investors”? Uh… typically that is the same group of people. It’s like saying “Washington and Congress” or “Deadheads and Hippies”.

    That’s the beauty of blogs, what Scoble and most others know, but what some doubters do not. Writing a blog allows that content to be reviewed and instantly digested by more people than any forum post or any press briefing. It also allows anonymous or incredibly official responses in seconds.

    OK, so it’s the Fanboys, AND trolls….

    Jack

  139. John and LayZ: go back and read what I wrote. Not what you thought I wrote. I said that blogs could hurt companies. So could answering the phone, if done improperly. So could speaking on stage. So could a variety of things. That doesn’t take away from their power as tools of business.

  140. John and LayZ: go back and read what I wrote. Not what you thought I wrote. I said that blogs could hurt companies. So could answering the phone, if done improperly. So could speaking on stage. So could a variety of things. That doesn’t take away from their power as tools of business.

  141. I think they are reading you just fine, Scoble. You seem to be unwilling to clarify your position from something extremely vague, and they seem to be trying to draw you out. For example, it seems to me, you are saying: blogs can only hurt if executed very poorly. Whereas, we are trying to determine whether you are willing to admit there are pros and cons to any communication even if it is done well. For example, can you concede that blogs can diffuse and homogenize a company’s message, etc?

  142. I think they are reading you just fine, Scoble. You seem to be unwilling to clarify your position from something extremely vague, and they seem to be trying to draw you out. For example, it seems to me, you are saying: blogs can only hurt if executed very poorly. Whereas, we are trying to determine whether you are willing to admit there are pros and cons to any communication even if it is done well. For example, can you concede that blogs can diffuse and homogenize a company’s message, etc?

  143. @92. No, i don’t pretend to speak on behalf of Wall Street. All I have to do is look at the stock price, 10K report and other related data for these companies and conclude that, well, Ford starting a blog didn’t appear to keep them from losing money. Same goes for GM. On the otherhand, as Goebbels and John Welch have point out, Apple seems to have been doing just fine, thank you, by not having a corporate blog policy. So, I will ask you: Can you point to any, let’s say, F500 company that has directly benefited by blogging? Or, to even support Scoble’s arguemnt.. been directly hurt by blogging? All we are asking is: show the correlation.

  144. @92. No, i don’t pretend to speak on behalf of Wall Street. All I have to do is look at the stock price, 10K report and other related data for these companies and conclude that, well, Ford starting a blog didn’t appear to keep them from losing money. Same goes for GM. On the otherhand, as Goebbels and John Welch have point out, Apple seems to have been doing just fine, thank you, by not having a corporate blog policy. So, I will ask you: Can you point to any, let’s say, F500 company that has directly benefited by blogging? Or, to even support Scoble’s arguemnt.. been directly hurt by blogging? All we are asking is: show the correlation.

  145. @93. Of course anything done poorly will hurt a company Duh! Thanks for that, Capt. Obvious. But, that’s not the question. The question is whether companies are really hurt or helped by not using blogging as one of their communication tools. You say if blogging is done poorly it could hurt. But no one has provided concrete evidence of how blogging actually helps, over and above all other communication tools a company uses. And don’t say it’s not about the bottomline, because it is. EVERYTHING a company does is with the end goal of selling more product.. So, what evidence do we have that companies that don’t blog don’t perform well?

  146. @93. Of course anything done poorly will hurt a company Duh! Thanks for that, Capt. Obvious. But, that’s not the question. The question is whether companies are really hurt or helped by not using blogging as one of their communication tools. You say if blogging is done poorly it could hurt. But no one has provided concrete evidence of how blogging actually helps, over and above all other communication tools a company uses. And don’t say it’s not about the bottomline, because it is. EVERYTHING a company does is with the end goal of selling more product.. So, what evidence do we have that companies that don’t blog don’t perform well?

  147. What I’ve learned from this thread so far:
    1. Some people think Scoble thinks that corporate blogging always makes things better. (when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail).
    2. Scoble really thinks blogging makes things better only when the blogging is done well. He still won’t concede that not blogging might be the right tactic in some cases.
    3. Apple is not perfect. (As Auda Abu Tayi discovered of Lawrence)
    4. But Apple is pretty darn good and maybe part of their recipe for success is not blogging.
    5. People who admire Apple and people who don’t inhabit parallel universes and can barely make themselves understood to each other.
    6. People who want all corporations to blog and people who want only some corporations to blog also inhabit parallel universes and can barely make themselves understood to each other.
    7. The weekend is the best time for a clever A-list blogger to criticize Apple because people have plenty of time to toss it around and rehash arguments that have been made since time immemorial.

    Here’s what I knew before reading this thread: Apple’s ability to control its image and its message is a powerful corporate asset. It defines the brand as much as — and in resonance with– industrial design, user-interface design, advertising design and retail design. All clean. Nothing extraneous.

    Achieving that requires ruthless attention to amplifiying signal and filtering out noise. Jobs is all about removing noise. In Apple’s world, blogging is likely to be more noise than signal. A chattering noisy Apple would not be Apple.

    (Disclaimer: I worked at Apple from 1986 to 1995.Most of those years we had too much noise and not enough signal. IMHO, it’s much better now. Apple blogs will not improve things for the customers or the shareholders.)

  148. What I’ve learned from this thread so far:
    1. Some people think Scoble thinks that corporate blogging always makes things better. (when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail).
    2. Scoble really thinks blogging makes things better only when the blogging is done well. He still won’t concede that not blogging might be the right tactic in some cases.
    3. Apple is not perfect. (As Auda Abu Tayi discovered of Lawrence)
    4. But Apple is pretty darn good and maybe part of their recipe for success is not blogging.
    5. People who admire Apple and people who don’t inhabit parallel universes and can barely make themselves understood to each other.
    6. People who want all corporations to blog and people who want only some corporations to blog also inhabit parallel universes and can barely make themselves understood to each other.
    7. The weekend is the best time for a clever A-list blogger to criticize Apple because people have plenty of time to toss it around and rehash arguments that have been made since time immemorial.

    Here’s what I knew before reading this thread: Apple’s ability to control its image and its message is a powerful corporate asset. It defines the brand as much as — and in resonance with– industrial design, user-interface design, advertising design and retail design. All clean. Nothing extraneous.

    Achieving that requires ruthless attention to amplifiying signal and filtering out noise. Jobs is all about removing noise. In Apple’s world, blogging is likely to be more noise than signal. A chattering noisy Apple would not be Apple.

    (Disclaimer: I worked at Apple from 1986 to 1995.Most of those years we had too much noise and not enough signal. IMHO, it’s much better now. Apple blogs will not improve things for the customers or the shareholders.)

  149. Michael: you’re right. So is LayZ. So is Goebbels. I’m wrong.
    Apple shouldn’t blog.

    There. I said it. Now, can we call go on with life?

    Personally, by saying that, I also need to admit that we love being manipulated by professional manipulators who only want to control what I hear and see from Apple. God forbid some “noise” gets introduced into the conversation.

    Nope, can’t have that. Nope. Only Steve Jobs can introduce noise.

    Yeah, blogs won’t help here.

    At least not until Steve Jobs decides that they are needed. Then, of course, we’ll get blogs from Apple.

    Oh, and why introduce the noise of letting employees help customers in newsgroups? What’s so magical about those? Turn them off too!

    Oh, and why introduce the noise of letting employees help customers in stores? After all, someone might say something incorrect and get quoted on a blog!

    Yes, we need more corporate PR control of the message. Less noise. More Steve Jobs! Yeeeeaaaahhhhhh!

  150. Michael: you’re right. So is LayZ. So is Goebbels. I’m wrong.
    Apple shouldn’t blog.

    There. I said it. Now, can we call go on with life?

    Personally, by saying that, I also need to admit that we love being manipulated by professional manipulators who only want to control what I hear and see from Apple. God forbid some “noise” gets introduced into the conversation.

    Nope, can’t have that. Nope. Only Steve Jobs can introduce noise.

    Yeah, blogs won’t help here.

    At least not until Steve Jobs decides that they are needed. Then, of course, we’ll get blogs from Apple.

    Oh, and why introduce the noise of letting employees help customers in newsgroups? What’s so magical about those? Turn them off too!

    Oh, and why introduce the noise of letting employees help customers in stores? After all, someone might say something incorrect and get quoted on a blog!

    Yes, we need more corporate PR control of the message. Less noise. More Steve Jobs! Yeeeeaaaahhhhhh!

  151. Robert, you still haven’t addressed Chuq’s actual posts – you’ve just gone off the deep end of screeching defensiveness – which does nothing to make you look good.

    Chuq described Apple as having a comprehensive communications policy, not a specific blogging policy. Furthermore, Chuq said the communications policy NEITHER precludes running a weblog NOR talking about Apple-related topics on it. Chuq stated that the rules of the communications policy are simple: People who aren’t authorized to do so can’t act as spokespeople for the company, and that people who aren’t authorized to do so can’t reveal information the company considers confidential.

    What’s unreasonable about that? As Chuq described it, it seems like the kind of policy that you’ll find in any company that works in a competitive market.

  152. Robert, you still haven’t addressed Chuq’s actual posts – you’ve just gone off the deep end of screeching defensiveness – which does nothing to make you look good.

    Chuq described Apple as having a comprehensive communications policy, not a specific blogging policy. Furthermore, Chuq said the communications policy NEITHER precludes running a weblog NOR talking about Apple-related topics on it. Chuq stated that the rules of the communications policy are simple: People who aren’t authorized to do so can’t act as spokespeople for the company, and that people who aren’t authorized to do so can’t reveal information the company considers confidential.

    What’s unreasonable about that? As Chuq described it, it seems like the kind of policy that you’ll find in any company that works in a competitive market.

  153. Chris: I don’t know who to believe. I have friends who I trust who work at Apple who say that Apple has told them they are not allowed to blog. Chuqui says that’s not true. I’ll go with my friends since there aren’t very many Apple bloggers.

    What’s unreasonable about that? Well, if you’re happy working at a company like that, then I guess nothing at all.

    I’d rather work at a company where I can blog about what I’m working on.

    That sounds like it isn’t allowed at Apple unless you are an “approved spokesperson.”

    So, how do you become an “approved spokesperson” at Apple? And what’s unreasonable about blogging about what you work on? Like those at Sun, at IBM, at Adobe, at Intuit, at Microsoft, are encouraged to do?

  154. Chris: I don’t know who to believe. I have friends who I trust who work at Apple who say that Apple has told them they are not allowed to blog. Chuqui says that’s not true. I’ll go with my friends since there aren’t very many Apple bloggers.

    What’s unreasonable about that? Well, if you’re happy working at a company like that, then I guess nothing at all.

    I’d rather work at a company where I can blog about what I’m working on.

    That sounds like it isn’t allowed at Apple unless you are an “approved spokesperson.”

    So, how do you become an “approved spokesperson” at Apple? And what’s unreasonable about blogging about what you work on? Like those at Sun, at IBM, at Adobe, at Intuit, at Microsoft, are encouraged to do?

  155. Oh, and why introduce the noise of letting employees help customers in stores? After all, someone might say something incorrect and get quoted on a blog!

    Yes, we need more corporate PR control of the message. Less noise. More Steve Jobs! Yeeeeaaaahhhhhh!

    Robert, you are sometimes just the most craptacularly sore loser on the planet. Every time people counter your OMGBLOGS!!! chanting with, oh, data and logic, you have this total snit fit. Wah. What, you want someone to bounce a ball off your head while asking you to squirt a few? Because with that, you’re that close to being a total crybaby about this. Christ on a pogo stick, grow up already. You like starting shit up, but dear lord, you are totally incapable of handling it once it starts.

    I’d rather work at a company where I can blog about what I’m working on.

    Pfft…you saying that is like a Mongoose saying “I like snakes”. No kidding Robert, you’d rather work where you can blog. That’s your VALUE. Yeesh. Is this supposed to be some major statement?

    That sounds like it isn’t allowed at Apple unless you are an “approved spokesperson.”

    Only to you. Did you bother to read what Chuq wrote, or are you still seeing what you want to, i.e. “no blogging == teh suck”?

    So, how do you become an “approved spokesperson” at Apple? And what’s unreasonable about blogging about what you work on? Like those at Sun, at IBM, at Adobe, at Intuit, at Microsoft, are encouraged to do?

    How about you get PodTech’s blogging problem fixed before you point the finger at someone else? It’s obvious that you didn’t bother to read most of what Chuq wrote, so I’m not surprised that you keep getting it wrong. But right now, your insistence that blogging is so important is ringing rather hollow when your own company isn’t blogging for shit.

  156. Oh, and why introduce the noise of letting employees help customers in stores? After all, someone might say something incorrect and get quoted on a blog!

    Yes, we need more corporate PR control of the message. Less noise. More Steve Jobs! Yeeeeaaaahhhhhh!

    Robert, you are sometimes just the most craptacularly sore loser on the planet. Every time people counter your OMGBLOGS!!! chanting with, oh, data and logic, you have this total snit fit. Wah. What, you want someone to bounce a ball off your head while asking you to squirt a few? Because with that, you’re that close to being a total crybaby about this. Christ on a pogo stick, grow up already. You like starting shit up, but dear lord, you are totally incapable of handling it once it starts.

    I’d rather work at a company where I can blog about what I’m working on.

    Pfft…you saying that is like a Mongoose saying “I like snakes”. No kidding Robert, you’d rather work where you can blog. That’s your VALUE. Yeesh. Is this supposed to be some major statement?

    That sounds like it isn’t allowed at Apple unless you are an “approved spokesperson.”

    Only to you. Did you bother to read what Chuq wrote, or are you still seeing what you want to, i.e. “no blogging == teh suck”?

    So, how do you become an “approved spokesperson” at Apple? And what’s unreasonable about blogging about what you work on? Like those at Sun, at IBM, at Adobe, at Intuit, at Microsoft, are encouraged to do?

    How about you get PodTech’s blogging problem fixed before you point the finger at someone else? It’s obvious that you didn’t bother to read most of what Chuq wrote, so I’m not surprised that you keep getting it wrong. But right now, your insistence that blogging is so important is ringing rather hollow when your own company isn’t blogging for shit.

  157. Many zones do not encourage blogging. In fact, they discourage it to the point of cutting your nads off.
    See DOD, NSA, CIA, NASA, DARPA, Skunk still Works, Radmond Research Labs etc.
    Forever and a day has a habit of limiting open conversation about technology which could provide quantum leaps in developmental spin off. Blog? Zip it.
    JOT just a thought.

  158. Many zones do not encourage blogging. In fact, they discourage it to the point of cutting your nads off.
    See DOD, NSA, CIA, NASA, DARPA, Skunk still Works, Radmond Research Labs etc.
    Forever and a day has a habit of limiting open conversation about technology which could provide quantum leaps in developmental spin off. Blog? Zip it.
    JOT just a thought.

  159. Robert, Touché (to quote an Apple ad). But it’s not as though there aren’t any feedback mechanisms in place between Apple and customers. You mentioned a few. I’ll bet there are others at work as well.

    It’s all a matter of calibration. Depending on what communication problems need to be solved, there are different ways to set the dials. Why does it always have to be set to max blogging?

  160. Robert, Touché (to quote an Apple ad). But it’s not as though there aren’t any feedback mechanisms in place between Apple and customers. You mentioned a few. I’ll bet there are others at work as well.

    It’s all a matter of calibration. Depending on what communication problems need to be solved, there are different ways to set the dials. Why does it always have to be set to max blogging?

  161. Well, this comment thread shows exactly why blogs are basically worthless. There is no communication here just bickering and nitpicking.

    I do find it funny that the pro-bloggers use many of the same tactics as socialists. Maybe if the USSR had a blog we could learn about that route…

  162. Well, this comment thread shows exactly why blogs are basically worthless. There is no communication here just bickering and nitpicking.

    I do find it funny that the pro-bloggers use many of the same tactics as socialists. Maybe if the USSR had a blog we could learn about that route…

  163. Hello,
    Up until 9/12, I managed the writers and editors on Apple.com. I resigned to encourage people to vote. (Read the whole story at http://www.yourethedecider.com/About.html). Now, I could never have written this site with these opinions as an Apple employee, or rather, I wouldn’t have.

    I had a more regular personal blog up until the 2004 election. Even some Microsoft employees found it and commented on it, as I managed the writing about Mac OS X on the Web since its inception. (I think their comments were something along the lines of, why can’t our marketing be as clear as theirs.)

    To be perfectly honest, I think the reason more people at Apple don’t blog is that they’re way too busy working to blog. Plenty of my former co-workers have personal blogs. But, you can see periods where they don’t post for days. It’s because they have a project that is all-consuming. Blogs without postings don’t get regular readership.

    There are also plenty of other communications vehicles, as pointed out, where Apple talks, or has customer forums. Apple eNews, Apple Hot News, Discussion forums, iTunes reviews, Apple Store reviews, mailing lists. Also, the feedback links on product pages do get read by the appropriate people. And responded to. But if the appropriate person responded publicly to every single message, the appropriate person wouldn’t be able to actually fix anything, they’d be communicating all day. That’s not really meaning to be an excuse, just reality of how much attention there is.

    And finally, there is also a culture of a) underpromising and overdelivering and b) surprising and delighting. Would you really want Steven King to have a blog about all the twists and turns while he writes the latest novel? Wouldn’t the story work less well if you knew how the scary part worked from the start? Ok, maybe that’s a bad analogy for support problems, but it works for new products.
    Best,
    KT

  164. Hello,
    Up until 9/12, I managed the writers and editors on Apple.com. I resigned to encourage people to vote. (Read the whole story at http://www.yourethedecider.com/About.html). Now, I could never have written this site with these opinions as an Apple employee, or rather, I wouldn’t have.

    I had a more regular personal blog up until the 2004 election. Even some Microsoft employees found it and commented on it, as I managed the writing about Mac OS X on the Web since its inception. (I think their comments were something along the lines of, why can’t our marketing be as clear as theirs.)

    To be perfectly honest, I think the reason more people at Apple don’t blog is that they’re way too busy working to blog. Plenty of my former co-workers have personal blogs. But, you can see periods where they don’t post for days. It’s because they have a project that is all-consuming. Blogs without postings don’t get regular readership.

    There are also plenty of other communications vehicles, as pointed out, where Apple talks, or has customer forums. Apple eNews, Apple Hot News, Discussion forums, iTunes reviews, Apple Store reviews, mailing lists. Also, the feedback links on product pages do get read by the appropriate people. And responded to. But if the appropriate person responded publicly to every single message, the appropriate person wouldn’t be able to actually fix anything, they’d be communicating all day. That’s not really meaning to be an excuse, just reality of how much attention there is.

    And finally, there is also a culture of a) underpromising and overdelivering and b) surprising and delighting. Would you really want Steven King to have a blog about all the twists and turns while he writes the latest novel? Wouldn’t the story work less well if you knew how the scary part worked from the start? Ok, maybe that’s a bad analogy for support problems, but it works for new products.
    Best,
    KT

  165. @98. Good God, Scoble. You really are incapable of having a rational discussion about the value of blogging at the corporate level it seems. Are you really unwilling to see that there may be a possibility that blogging is not always an effective tool…even if done well? You repsonse in @98 has you coming off as a baby because there are people that have the audacity to question your position.

    More and more you are looking like a “Blogo-facist”

  166. @98. Good God, Scoble. You really are incapable of having a rational discussion about the value of blogging at the corporate level it seems. Are you really unwilling to see that there may be a possibility that blogging is not always an effective tool…even if done well? You repsonse in @98 has you coming off as a baby because there are people that have the audacity to question your position.

    More and more you are looking like a “Blogo-facist”

  167. “[Scoble has] yet to establish an actual need for [Apple] blogging”

    I took a shot at it a few weeks ago:

    Yeah John, and honestly, it’s not your best work. Your reasons were rather um…weak:

    Let’s look at just one example from recent Apple history. In May of 2006, Apple’s newly released MacBook Pro laptops appeared to be running a bit hot. It didn’t take long for intrepid hardware hackers to crack open the case and discover an excessive amount of thermal paste on the various hot bits. Further inquiry revealed that Apple’s service manual for the MacBook Pro contained instructions to apply comical amounts of thermal paste when repairing said hot bits.

    That whole story sounded real good. “OMG, APPLE’S TEH DUMB”. Until a couple of sites decided to actually measure the temp difference between a macbook with Apple’s “comical” amounts of thermal paste and what every said was the “proper” amount.

    Empirical testing showed that the actual, real-world temp difference was negligible.

    There’s nothing a blog would have done for that, because it was YAE of the Mac community losing its damned mind over an impression without bothering to look for real data. You can’t out-blog dumb, and that’s what that was. Dumb at the speed of light.

    You go on for paragraphs about how a blogger with Steve’s ear could have helped Apple avoid this problem, but there was no real problem other than aesthetic. There’s no way a blog from Apple is going to outweigh the self-appoointed geniuses saying that anyone knows that much thermal paste is the cause of the problems. Every yayhoo that ever put a PC together is going to say that Apple was full of shit, they’ll drown Apple out and we both know it.

    How has blogging helped Microsoft overcome its security problems?

    It hasn’t. Hard work is the only thing that will do that.

    How has blogging helped Sun over come its relevancy issues?

    It hasn’t. Product has done all the work there.

    Blogging has not solved a single technical problem *ever*, and the idea that it will, or mitigate the effects of an actual problem, or, as in the case of your example, mitigate the effects of hysteria over a non-problem is silly.

  168. “[Scoble has] yet to establish an actual need for [Apple] blogging”

    I took a shot at it a few weeks ago:

    Yeah John, and honestly, it’s not your best work. Your reasons were rather um…weak:

    Let’s look at just one example from recent Apple history. In May of 2006, Apple’s newly released MacBook Pro laptops appeared to be running a bit hot. It didn’t take long for intrepid hardware hackers to crack open the case and discover an excessive amount of thermal paste on the various hot bits. Further inquiry revealed that Apple’s service manual for the MacBook Pro contained instructions to apply comical amounts of thermal paste when repairing said hot bits.

    That whole story sounded real good. “OMG, APPLE’S TEH DUMB”. Until a couple of sites decided to actually measure the temp difference between a macbook with Apple’s “comical” amounts of thermal paste and what every said was the “proper” amount.

    Empirical testing showed that the actual, real-world temp difference was negligible.

    There’s nothing a blog would have done for that, because it was YAE of the Mac community losing its damned mind over an impression without bothering to look for real data. You can’t out-blog dumb, and that’s what that was. Dumb at the speed of light.

    You go on for paragraphs about how a blogger with Steve’s ear could have helped Apple avoid this problem, but there was no real problem other than aesthetic. There’s no way a blog from Apple is going to outweigh the self-appoointed geniuses saying that anyone knows that much thermal paste is the cause of the problems. Every yayhoo that ever put a PC together is going to say that Apple was full of shit, they’ll drown Apple out and we both know it.

    How has blogging helped Microsoft overcome its security problems?

    It hasn’t. Hard work is the only thing that will do that.

    How has blogging helped Sun over come its relevancy issues?

    It hasn’t. Product has done all the work there.

    Blogging has not solved a single technical problem *ever*, and the idea that it will, or mitigate the effects of an actual problem, or, as in the case of your example, mitigate the effects of hysteria over a non-problem is silly.

  169. Look,it’s okay if the pro bloggers say “We like blogging and think blogging is cool, but we have no data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates if blogging has a positive or negative bottomline impact on a corporation” I mean at least we would know you are basing your opinion on……nothing but your feelings.

  170. Look,it’s okay if the pro bloggers say “We like blogging and think blogging is cool, but we have no data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates if blogging has a positive or negative bottomline impact on a corporation” I mean at least we would know you are basing your opinion on……nothing but your feelings.

  171. >> That whole story sounded real good. “OMG, APPLE’S TEH DUMB”. Until a couple of sites decided to actually measure the temp difference between a macbook with Apple’s “comical” amounts of thermal paste and what every said was the “proper” amount.

    Empirical testing showed that the actual, real-world temp difference was negligible. > You can’t out-blog dumb, and that’s what that was. Dumb at the speed of light. > There’s no way a blog from Apple is going to outweigh the self-appoointed geniuses saying that anyone knows that much thermal paste is the cause of the problems. Every yayhoo that ever put a PC together is going to say that Apple was full of shit, they’ll drown Apple out and we both know it. > How has blogging helped Microsoft overcome its security problems?

  172. >> That whole story sounded real good. “OMG, APPLE’S TEH DUMB”. Until a couple of sites decided to actually measure the temp difference between a macbook with Apple’s “comical” amounts of thermal paste and what every said was the “proper” amount.

    Empirical testing showed that the actual, real-world temp difference was negligible. > You can’t out-blog dumb, and that’s what that was. Dumb at the speed of light. > There’s no way a blog from Apple is going to outweigh the self-appoointed geniuses saying that anyone knows that much thermal paste is the cause of the problems. Every yayhoo that ever put a PC together is going to say that Apple was full of shit, they’ll drown Apple out and we both know it. > How has blogging helped Microsoft overcome its security problems?

  173. (Ug, no comment editing? Some blog software…anyway, attempt number two…)

    That whole story sounded real good. “OMG, APPLE’S TEH DUMB”. Until a couple of sites decided to actually measure the temp difference between a macbook with Apple’s “comical” amounts of thermal paste and what every said was the “proper” amount.

    Empirical testing showed that the actual, real-world temp difference was negligible.

    Two points. First, it doesn’t matter if there was any difference in measured temperature on a particular persons MacBook. (Some showed a difference; some did not.) You simply don’t put that much paste on because it’s just supposed to fill the tiny voids in the (microscopically) rough surfaces of that mating pieces.

    That being the case, all that excess paste has to go somewhere. Some thermal paste is mildly conductive, so you definitely don’t want it oozing onto the motherboard or other components. At least one user had the excess paste leak onto his DIMMs. (Google for the picts.)

    Second, more importantly, it doesn’t matter if the grease application was actually harmful. What matters is how it was *perceived.* Remember, this is PR.

    An official Apple blogging presence could have addressed both issues, by explaining how it’s not harmful to have that much grease (“Apple only uses totally non-conductive grease”) and/or by indicating how it happened, what Apple is doing to fix it, and when the problem is expected to be solved.

    Instead, there was silence and antagonism (the C&D for the service manual picts). That made things much, much worse.

    You can’t out-blog dumb, and that’s what that was. Dumb at the speed of light.

    “Dumb” is precisely what a timely, engaged Apple blog is best suited to combat. Left to their own devices, with no guidance from Apple in a reasonable time frame, the Mac web has only its reader reports and speculation to go on.

    There’s no way a blog from Apple is going to outweigh the self-appoointed geniuses saying that anyone knows that much thermal paste is the cause of the problems. Every yayhoo that ever put a PC together is going to say that Apple was full of shit, they’ll drown Apple out and we both know it.

    Maybe it seems that way to you because the conversation is so one-sided now. If an Apple blogger had immediate addressed the issue, every subsequent site, blog, or forum post the mentioned the issue would have had a summary of, and link to the Apple blogger’s response included in the thread. Apple fans would rally around this, you can be sure, pointing out the statements in any anti-Apple posting that were refuted by the Apple blogger’s response.

    How has blogging helped Microsoft overcome its security problems?

    Who says that was the goal of their blogging efforts? Only MS knows what the real goals were, if they were even defined. All I can tell you is the effect the blogs have had. I think they’ve improved MS’s image and the knowledge and perception of its technologies. That’s nothing to sneeze at, considering the starting point.

  174. (Ug, no comment editing? Some blog software…anyway, attempt number two…)

    That whole story sounded real good. “OMG, APPLE’S TEH DUMB”. Until a couple of sites decided to actually measure the temp difference between a macbook with Apple’s “comical” amounts of thermal paste and what every said was the “proper” amount.

    Empirical testing showed that the actual, real-world temp difference was negligible.

    Two points. First, it doesn’t matter if there was any difference in measured temperature on a particular persons MacBook. (Some showed a difference; some did not.) You simply don’t put that much paste on because it’s just supposed to fill the tiny voids in the (microscopically) rough surfaces of that mating pieces.

    That being the case, all that excess paste has to go somewhere. Some thermal paste is mildly conductive, so you definitely don’t want it oozing onto the motherboard or other components. At least one user had the excess paste leak onto his DIMMs. (Google for the picts.)

    Second, more importantly, it doesn’t matter if the grease application was actually harmful. What matters is how it was *perceived.* Remember, this is PR.

    An official Apple blogging presence could have addressed both issues, by explaining how it’s not harmful to have that much grease (“Apple only uses totally non-conductive grease”) and/or by indicating how it happened, what Apple is doing to fix it, and when the problem is expected to be solved.

    Instead, there was silence and antagonism (the C&D for the service manual picts). That made things much, much worse.

    You can’t out-blog dumb, and that’s what that was. Dumb at the speed of light.

    “Dumb” is precisely what a timely, engaged Apple blog is best suited to combat. Left to their own devices, with no guidance from Apple in a reasonable time frame, the Mac web has only its reader reports and speculation to go on.

    There’s no way a blog from Apple is going to outweigh the self-appoointed geniuses saying that anyone knows that much thermal paste is the cause of the problems. Every yayhoo that ever put a PC together is going to say that Apple was full of shit, they’ll drown Apple out and we both know it.

    Maybe it seems that way to you because the conversation is so one-sided now. If an Apple blogger had immediate addressed the issue, every subsequent site, blog, or forum post the mentioned the issue would have had a summary of, and link to the Apple blogger’s response included in the thread. Apple fans would rally around this, you can be sure, pointing out the statements in any anti-Apple posting that were refuted by the Apple blogger’s response.

    How has blogging helped Microsoft overcome its security problems?

    Who says that was the goal of their blogging efforts? Only MS knows what the real goals were, if they were even defined. All I can tell you is the effect the blogs have had. I think they’ve improved MS’s image and the knowledge and perception of its technologies. That’s nothing to sneeze at, considering the starting point.

  175. LayZ: >>Look,it’s okay if the pro bloggers say “We like blogging and think blogging is cool, but we have no data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates if blogging has a positive or negative bottomline impact on a corporation”

    We interviewed 188 companies for our book, which contains lots of data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates that blogging has a positive bottomline impact. Start with the CEO of Stormhoek. He says he doubled his sales with a blog and blog strategy.

    But, nah, let’s ignore THAT data. It’s so much more fun to beat up on blog advocates.

  176. LayZ: >>Look,it’s okay if the pro bloggers say “We like blogging and think blogging is cool, but we have no data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates if blogging has a positive or negative bottomline impact on a corporation”

    We interviewed 188 companies for our book, which contains lots of data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates that blogging has a positive bottomline impact. Start with the CEO of Stormhoek. He says he doubled his sales with a blog and blog strategy.

    But, nah, let’s ignore THAT data. It’s so much more fun to beat up on blog advocates.

  177. It’s a little difficult to extrapolate a small boutique winery in South Africa to a 60+ billion dollar American tech company that has existed for 30 years though… And by the way, the Stormhoek blog hasn’t had a post since February: has their business declined 50% over the last 8 months?

  178. It’s a little difficult to extrapolate a small boutique winery in South Africa to a 60+ billion dollar American tech company that has existed for 30 years though… And by the way, the Stormhoek blog hasn’t had a post since February: has their business declined 50% over the last 8 months?

  179. I apologize: the blog hasn’t been dead since Feb. I was on an old archived page and was unable to reach the new pages for some reason. However, I did learn that the vineyard was established by a “braintrust” of vintners in 2001… had there first variety in 2003… expanded to 4 varieties in 2004… and have continued to expand and aggressively promote in 2005. No surprise to see a vineyards production/sales double in its 5th year if they are going to have any success. Also I wouldn’t call sending free wine to hundreds of people, providing free wine for tons of events, and hosting their own free wine tasting events solely a blog strategy even if the bloggers and geek events were the target. He could have picked “athletes” or any category of person and had similar results.

  180. I apologize: the blog hasn’t been dead since Feb. I was on an old archived page and was unable to reach the new pages for some reason. However, I did learn that the vineyard was established by a “braintrust” of vintners in 2001… had there first variety in 2003… expanded to 4 varieties in 2004… and have continued to expand and aggressively promote in 2005. No surprise to see a vineyards production/sales double in its 5th year if they are going to have any success. Also I wouldn’t call sending free wine to hundreds of people, providing free wine for tons of events, and hosting their own free wine tasting events solely a blog strategy even if the bloggers and geek events were the target. He could have picked “athletes” or any category of person and had similar results.

  181. The more I look at it: Stormhoek seems to be the biggest blog scam story of the last year and a half.

    They’ve expanded distribution through major UK chains and Cost Plus here in the states, have hugely expanded their production (could they have even produced more than 50,000 cases in ’05?), participated in all of the traditional wine testing/vending/scoring events you’d imagine any vineyard would be involved, got mentions in winetasting magazines, all during the time when a vienyard would naturally ramp up output… and it’s all attributable to a blog? Nope, sorry, don’t buy it.

    And also, let’s remember: the first 5 years is nothing for a vineyard. Let’s see how their blog does for their success over the next 5 years.

  182. The more I look at it: Stormhoek seems to be the biggest blog scam story of the last year and a half.

    They’ve expanded distribution through major UK chains and Cost Plus here in the states, have hugely expanded their production (could they have even produced more than 50,000 cases in ’05?), participated in all of the traditional wine testing/vending/scoring events you’d imagine any vineyard would be involved, got mentions in winetasting magazines, all during the time when a vienyard would naturally ramp up output… and it’s all attributable to a blog? Nope, sorry, don’t buy it.

    And also, let’s remember: the first 5 years is nothing for a vineyard. Let’s see how their blog does for their success over the next 5 years.

  183. @114. I’ve conceded that blogging can help small and medium sized companies, which seems to be the majority of your 188 companies you “interviewed”. And that’s likely because they have limited funding/resources show many choose blogging as their primary communication vehicle. And excuse me for not accepting a data set of 188 carefully selected companies. Did you explore companies that invested in blogging and found it wasn’t effective? Thank you but I’d prefer a survey that wasn’t self serving. Like, or I dunno, maybe a study done by an organization that had no interest in either a positive or negative result.

    Look, I admire the fact Shel was able to write a book with such supporting data (and he graciously allowed you to tag along) that “proves” your theory. But, the question still remains unanswered. And you still remain incapable of having an intellectual conversation around a contrary opinion.

  184. @114. I’ve conceded that blogging can help small and medium sized companies, which seems to be the majority of your 188 companies you “interviewed”. And that’s likely because they have limited funding/resources show many choose blogging as their primary communication vehicle. And excuse me for not accepting a data set of 188 carefully selected companies. Did you explore companies that invested in blogging and found it wasn’t effective? Thank you but I’d prefer a survey that wasn’t self serving. Like, or I dunno, maybe a study done by an organization that had no interest in either a positive or negative result.

    Look, I admire the fact Shel was able to write a book with such supporting data (and he graciously allowed you to tag along) that “proves” your theory. But, the question still remains unanswered. And you still remain incapable of having an intellectual conversation around a contrary opinion.

  185. Wow..Goebbels is really on the money here..

    Interesting thing – Robert hasnt really participated in this conversation but has gone on with 10 newer posts. What with the claim ‘blog is an effective conversation tool’?

    It looks its quite easy to kill a conversation by posting newer entries.

    May be blogging is great for conversations where you are winning…

  186. Wow..Goebbels is really on the money here..

    Interesting thing – Robert hasnt really participated in this conversation but has gone on with 10 newer posts. What with the claim ‘blog is an effective conversation tool’?

    It looks its quite easy to kill a conversation by posting newer entries.

    May be blogging is great for conversations where you are winning…

  187. >>And you still remain incapable of having an intellectual conversation around a contrary opinion.

    OK. That’s probably true.

    I think we’ve beaten this to death.

    I believe blogging helps. You don’t.

    That’s not a position we’re going to convince each other of.

    It’s sort of like abortion. If you’re for it, and I’m against it, there’s not much we can say to each other to convince each other that their position is wrong and that we should change our minds.

    Is blogging a “faith?” I have more evidence than that, but it still isn’t something I can back up with hard and fast numbers for the most part.

    At Microsoft I saw that it did help our reputation numbers. It helped our recruiting very much too. And 4.3 million unique visitors showed up the month I quit to Channel 9, so on that number too it mattered. Not to mention that the Economist wrote that it mattered.

    Is it like dynamite to a gold miner? Yeah, it can blow off your hand. It can also get gold out of the mine. I have more than enough examples to convince me. As for convincing you, why is that my job? Are you gonna start a blog if I convince you it’s important?

    Why are you arguing in the first place? We don’t know cause you’re an anonymous blogger who doesn’t want us to know his or her biases, background, career, bosses, families, or anything else.

    Anyway, if blogging isn’t for you, don’t do it.

  188. @112 “Who says that was the goal of their blogging efforts? Only MS knows what the real goals were, if they were even defined. All I can tell you is the effect the blogs have had. I think they’ve improved MS’s image and the knowledge and perception of its technologies. That’s nothing to sneeze at, considering the starting point.”

    Likely not their sole goal. But if MS is encouraging their employees to blog and that blogging doesn’t ULTIMATELY result in better products and more sales, then the company and the bloggers are wasting the company’s time. You may THINK the plethora of blogs MS have has improved their image, but I would think a CEO would want more concrete data than what someone THINKS. Israel’s book as examples of 188 carefully selected companies that supposedly “prove” blogging is a good thing. Is there other quantitative data out there. The most important being data that shows companies that DON’T blog are being hurt by doing so. I don’t think anyone is arguing that blogging has a detrimental impact on a company. It seems Scoble’s contention is that NOT blogging has a detrimental affect on a company. I’d like to see some research that supports that.

    Scoble, your 188 companies carefully selected companies “prove” that blogging is good. No one questions that. What I question is the thesis that NOT blogging is bad for a company. Where’s the proof of that?

  189. >>And you still remain incapable of having an intellectual conversation around a contrary opinion.

    OK. That’s probably true.

    I think we’ve beaten this to death.

    I believe blogging helps. You don’t.

    That’s not a position we’re going to convince each other of.

    It’s sort of like abortion. If you’re for it, and I’m against it, there’s not much we can say to each other to convince each other that their position is wrong and that we should change our minds.

    Is blogging a “faith?” I have more evidence than that, but it still isn’t something I can back up with hard and fast numbers for the most part.

    At Microsoft I saw that it did help our reputation numbers. It helped our recruiting very much too. And 4.3 million unique visitors showed up the month I quit to Channel 9, so on that number too it mattered. Not to mention that the Economist wrote that it mattered.

    Is it like dynamite to a gold miner? Yeah, it can blow off your hand. It can also get gold out of the mine. I have more than enough examples to convince me. As for convincing you, why is that my job? Are you gonna start a blog if I convince you it’s important?

    Why are you arguing in the first place? We don’t know cause you’re an anonymous blogger who doesn’t want us to know his or her biases, background, career, bosses, families, or anything else.

    Anyway, if blogging isn’t for you, don’t do it.

  190. @112 “Who says that was the goal of their blogging efforts? Only MS knows what the real goals were, if they were even defined. All I can tell you is the effect the blogs have had. I think they’ve improved MS’s image and the knowledge and perception of its technologies. That’s nothing to sneeze at, considering the starting point.”

    Likely not their sole goal. But if MS is encouraging their employees to blog and that blogging doesn’t ULTIMATELY result in better products and more sales, then the company and the bloggers are wasting the company’s time. You may THINK the plethora of blogs MS have has improved their image, but I would think a CEO would want more concrete data than what someone THINKS. Israel’s book as examples of 188 carefully selected companies that supposedly “prove” blogging is a good thing. Is there other quantitative data out there. The most important being data that shows companies that DON’T blog are being hurt by doing so. I don’t think anyone is arguing that blogging has a detrimental impact on a company. It seems Scoble’s contention is that NOT blogging has a detrimental affect on a company. I’d like to see some research that supports that.

    Scoble, your 188 companies carefully selected companies “prove” that blogging is good. No one questions that. What I question is the thesis that NOT blogging is bad for a company. Where’s the proof of that?

  191. @119. See my last post. I never said blogging doesn’t help. What I don’t agree with, because I don’t see evidence of this, is the NOT blogging hurts.

  192. blogger: I saw your post after I responded to LayZ. >>What with the claim ‘blog is an effective conversation tool’?

    I see this conversation going in circles. Shoot me for wanting to spend my time doing something more interesting than trying to hold a “conversation” with a handful of people, most of whom are anonymous and seem to have already made up their minds anyway.

    I don’t argue about my views on abortion for the same reason. Even if my position is right all you do is piss people off.

  193. @119. See my last post. I never said blogging doesn’t help. What I don’t agree with, because I don’t see evidence of this, is the NOT blogging hurts.

  194. blogger: I saw your post after I responded to LayZ. >>What with the claim ‘blog is an effective conversation tool’?

    I see this conversation going in circles. Shoot me for wanting to spend my time doing something more interesting than trying to hold a “conversation” with a handful of people, most of whom are anonymous and seem to have already made up their minds anyway.

    I don’t argue about my views on abortion for the same reason. Even if my position is right all you do is piss people off.

  195. LayZ: Microsoft has plenty of internal data showing that blogging helps it get more recruits (I’ve seen the surveys and work the company has done to try to quantify a difference), get a better reputation, and probably more sales although that one is a harder one to prove. But profits have risen every quarter at Microsoft since I joined. So, they aren’t having a detrimental effect.

    I can’t talk about the survey results cause I signed an NDA, though, and can’t talk about things that haven’t been disclosed publicly.

    I can say that there are millions of visitors to things like Channel 9 and blogs.msdn.com and blogs.technet.com.

    I also can say that you’re absolutely right. If blogging wasn’t serving a larger corporate goal it would have been killed long ago.

  196. LayZ: Microsoft has plenty of internal data showing that blogging helps it get more recruits (I’ve seen the surveys and work the company has done to try to quantify a difference), get a better reputation, and probably more sales although that one is a harder one to prove. But profits have risen every quarter at Microsoft since I joined. So, they aren’t having a detrimental effect.

    I can’t talk about the survey results cause I signed an NDA, though, and can’t talk about things that haven’t been disclosed publicly.

    I can say that there are millions of visitors to things like Channel 9 and blogs.msdn.com and blogs.technet.com.

    I also can say that you’re absolutely right. If blogging wasn’t serving a larger corporate goal it would have been killed long ago.

  197. LayZ: >>What I don’t agree with, because I don’t see evidence of this, is the NOT blogging hurts.

    I’ve seen anecdotal evidence that it does hurt. Especially on recruitment. But I can’t share the data, unfortunately, so I can’t use what I’ve seen to win the argument.

  198. LayZ: >>What I don’t agree with, because I don’t see evidence of this, is the NOT blogging hurts.

    I’ve seen anecdotal evidence that it does hurt. Especially on recruitment. But I can’t share the data, unfortunately, so I can’t use what I’ve seen to win the argument.

  199. Whats wrong with being anonymous? If anything it helps. You can concentrate on the issue being raised rather than the person who raises the issue.

    Why should my biases matter? Besides we dont need to have conversations to “convince” each other. It could simply help understand each others view point and diversify.

    You may not beleive, but i too strongly beleived not blogging does hurt organizations. But the questions raised here have been quite interesting and thought provoking.

  200. Whats wrong with being anonymous? If anything it helps. You can concentrate on the issue being raised rather than the person who raises the issue.

    Why should my biases matter? Besides we dont need to have conversations to “convince” each other. It could simply help understand each others view point and diversify.

    You may not beleive, but i too strongly beleived not blogging does hurt organizations. But the questions raised here have been quite interesting and thought provoking.

  201. “Dumb” is precisely what a timely, engaged Apple blog is best suited to combat. Left to their own devices, with no guidance from Apple in a reasonable time frame, the Mac web has only its reader reports and speculation to go on.

    John, if you really think that, then you should pay more attention to the Mac community you write for. Or the computer community in general. Or, in fact, the masses as a whole. There have been, literally, since 1960, around ten verifiable cases of halloween candy tampering. There has been, IIRC, one verifiable death, a father in texas killing his kids for insurance money.

    This is well – documented. It’s on blogs even. Guess what difference it’s made in the Tampered Halloween Candy hysteria? None. Not a damned bit. Same thing with the Black Cats being killed by Satanists hysteria, etc.

    All of the correct information is available on blogs. Easily searched and found. Yet, oddly, it makes no difference. Why? Because once someone makes up their mind, what makes you think that minor things like “facts” and “reality” are going to change it?

    Again, you can suppose all you like about how an Apple blog would have made a difference here, but the numbers saying “no, it won’t actually” far outweigh that idea.

    Maybe it seems that way to you because the conversation is so one-sided now. If an Apple blogger had immediate addressed the issue, every subsequent site, blog, or forum post the mentioned the issue would have had a summary of, and link to the Apple blogger’s response included in the thread. Apple fans would rally around this, you can be sure, pointing out the statements in any anti-Apple posting that were refuted by the Apple blogger’s response.

    Do you actually read some of the examples of what passes for rational thought in the vast majority of the Mac Web, or do you assume that because you try to bring logic and rational analysis to such things that everyone else does too? I’m thinking it’s the latter if you really believe that statement.

    I think they’ve improved MS’s image and the knowledge and perception of its technologies. That’s nothing to sneeze at, considering the starting point.

    not in the IT biz. No one there trusts anything Microsoft says until its buyable. WinFS anyone?

    We interviewed 188 companies for our book, which contains lots of data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates that blogging has a positive bottomline impact. Start with the CEO of Stormhoek. He says he doubled his sales with a blog and blog strategy.

    But, nah, let’s ignore THAT data. It’s so much more fun to beat up on blog advocates.

    Robert, you love that example, yet where’s the actual, testable, non-spun data that conclusively shows that blogging, and blogging ALONE doubled their sales? If blogging had that kind of effect on people, shouldn’t both Microsoft’s and Sun’s stock performance be looking more like Apple’s?

    Interesting thing – Robert hasnt really participated in this conversation but has gone on with 10 newer posts. What with the claim ‘blog is an effective conversation tool’?

    It looks its quite easy to kill a conversation by posting newer entries.

    Actually, it’s the best way. Shove it to the bottom of the list, or off the main page, and you kill the conversation rather effectively.

    Is blogging a “faith?” I have more evidence than that, but it still isn’t something I can back up with hard and fast numbers for the most part.

    Wait…you’re saying it’s not a faith, but you have no real data to show it, so we’ll just have to take your word on it?

    Robert…that…that statement of yours…that is the very essence of faith. “I have no real proof, but I know I’m right”. You destroy your point in the same sentence you try to make it in. That’s quite efficient, but rather a waste of time?

    Why are you arguing in the first place? We don’t know cause you’re an anonymous blogger who doesn’t want us to know his or her biases, background, career, bosses, families, or anything else.

    When all else fails, and Robert’s backed into a corner again, come out against anonymity. sigh…so sad.

    I see this conversation going in circles. Shoot me for wanting to spend my time doing something more interesting than trying to hold a “conversation” with a handful of people, most of whom are anonymous and seem to have already made up their minds anyway.

    I don’t argue about my views on abortion for the same reason. Even if my position is right all you do is piss people off.

    The next great Scoblism. When in doubt, pout. Robert, maybe if you spent half as much time providing real supporting data as doing a princess two-step, you’d have better luck.

    I can’t talk about the survey results cause I signed an NDA, though, and can’t talk about things that haven’t been disclosed publicly.

    “I have seen the true word, but you can’t. You must trust what I say because I have seen the true word.”

    You sure you aren’t training to be a televangelist?

    I can say that there are millions of visitors to things like Channel 9 and blogs.msdn.com and blogs.technet.com.

    There’s millions of visitors to vivid.com every day too, what’s your point?

    I also can say that you’re absolutely right. If blogging wasn’t serving a larger corporate goal it would have been killed long ago.

    Indeed. Without the rather large PR boost that blogs have giving Microsoft, the Vista debacle would have hurt them FAR more.

    I’ve seen anecdotal evidence that it does hurt. Especially on recruitment. But I can’t share the data, unfortunately, so I can’t use what I’ve seen to win the argument.

    Curious how the only data you can find to support your point is sooper-seekret. If blogging is as consistently beneficial as you maintain, surely there are more public data you can use.

  202. “Dumb” is precisely what a timely, engaged Apple blog is best suited to combat. Left to their own devices, with no guidance from Apple in a reasonable time frame, the Mac web has only its reader reports and speculation to go on.

    John, if you really think that, then you should pay more attention to the Mac community you write for. Or the computer community in general. Or, in fact, the masses as a whole. There have been, literally, since 1960, around ten verifiable cases of halloween candy tampering. There has been, IIRC, one verifiable death, a father in texas killing his kids for insurance money.

    This is well – documented. It’s on blogs even. Guess what difference it’s made in the Tampered Halloween Candy hysteria? None. Not a damned bit. Same thing with the Black Cats being killed by Satanists hysteria, etc.

    All of the correct information is available on blogs. Easily searched and found. Yet, oddly, it makes no difference. Why? Because once someone makes up their mind, what makes you think that minor things like “facts” and “reality” are going to change it?

    Again, you can suppose all you like about how an Apple blog would have made a difference here, but the numbers saying “no, it won’t actually” far outweigh that idea.

    Maybe it seems that way to you because the conversation is so one-sided now. If an Apple blogger had immediate addressed the issue, every subsequent site, blog, or forum post the mentioned the issue would have had a summary of, and link to the Apple blogger’s response included in the thread. Apple fans would rally around this, you can be sure, pointing out the statements in any anti-Apple posting that were refuted by the Apple blogger’s response.

    Do you actually read some of the examples of what passes for rational thought in the vast majority of the Mac Web, or do you assume that because you try to bring logic and rational analysis to such things that everyone else does too? I’m thinking it’s the latter if you really believe that statement.

    I think they’ve improved MS’s image and the knowledge and perception of its technologies. That’s nothing to sneeze at, considering the starting point.

    not in the IT biz. No one there trusts anything Microsoft says until its buyable. WinFS anyone?

    We interviewed 188 companies for our book, which contains lots of data, quantitative or otherwise, that indicates that blogging has a positive bottomline impact. Start with the CEO of Stormhoek. He says he doubled his sales with a blog and blog strategy.

    But, nah, let’s ignore THAT data. It’s so much more fun to beat up on blog advocates.

    Robert, you love that example, yet where’s the actual, testable, non-spun data that conclusively shows that blogging, and blogging ALONE doubled their sales? If blogging had that kind of effect on people, shouldn’t both Microsoft’s and Sun’s stock performance be looking more like Apple’s?

    Interesting thing – Robert hasnt really participated in this conversation but has gone on with 10 newer posts. What with the claim ‘blog is an effective conversation tool’?

    It looks its quite easy to kill a conversation by posting newer entries.

    Actually, it’s the best way. Shove it to the bottom of the list, or off the main page, and you kill the conversation rather effectively.

    Is blogging a “faith?” I have more evidence than that, but it still isn’t something I can back up with hard and fast numbers for the most part.

    Wait…you’re saying it’s not a faith, but you have no real data to show it, so we’ll just have to take your word on it?

    Robert…that…that statement of yours…that is the very essence of faith. “I have no real proof, but I know I’m right”. You destroy your point in the same sentence you try to make it in. That’s quite efficient, but rather a waste of time?

    Why are you arguing in the first place? We don’t know cause you’re an anonymous blogger who doesn’t want us to know his or her biases, background, career, bosses, families, or anything else.

    When all else fails, and Robert’s backed into a corner again, come out against anonymity. sigh…so sad.

    I see this conversation going in circles. Shoot me for wanting to spend my time doing something more interesting than trying to hold a “conversation” with a handful of people, most of whom are anonymous and seem to have already made up their minds anyway.

    I don’t argue about my views on abortion for the same reason. Even if my position is right all you do is piss people off.

    The next great Scoblism. When in doubt, pout. Robert, maybe if you spent half as much time providing real supporting data as doing a princess two-step, you’d have better luck.

    I can’t talk about the survey results cause I signed an NDA, though, and can’t talk about things that haven’t been disclosed publicly.

    “I have seen the true word, but you can’t. You must trust what I say because I have seen the true word.”

    You sure you aren’t training to be a televangelist?

    I can say that there are millions of visitors to things like Channel 9 and blogs.msdn.com and blogs.technet.com.

    There’s millions of visitors to vivid.com every day too, what’s your point?

    I also can say that you’re absolutely right. If blogging wasn’t serving a larger corporate goal it would have been killed long ago.

    Indeed. Without the rather large PR boost that blogs have giving Microsoft, the Vista debacle would have hurt them FAR more.

    I’ve seen anecdotal evidence that it does hurt. Especially on recruitment. But I can’t share the data, unfortunately, so I can’t use what I’ve seen to win the argument.

    Curious how the only data you can find to support your point is sooper-seekret. If blogging is as consistently beneficial as you maintain, surely there are more public data you can use.

  203. John,

    >>Robert, you love that example, yet where’s the actual, testable, non-spun data that conclusively shows that blogging, and blogging ALONE doubled their sales? If blogging had that kind of effect on people, shouldn’t both Microsoft’s and Sun’s stock performance be looking more like Apple’s?

    I don’t have it. I’m just going off of what their own CEO says. But, maybe it’s just good wine and people are discovering it all on its own.

    There’s a lot of variables that go into stock price. I can’t nail any one variable on the stock price. Google has been encouraging its employees to blog more often lately and its stock price has gone up.

    In the meantime, stuff like this might have more of an effect on stock price than whether or not Apple blogs: http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06103004.htm

  204. John,

    >>Robert, you love that example, yet where’s the actual, testable, non-spun data that conclusively shows that blogging, and blogging ALONE doubled their sales? If blogging had that kind of effect on people, shouldn’t both Microsoft’s and Sun’s stock performance be looking more like Apple’s?

    I don’t have it. I’m just going off of what their own CEO says. But, maybe it’s just good wine and people are discovering it all on its own.

    There’s a lot of variables that go into stock price. I can’t nail any one variable on the stock price. Google has been encouraging its employees to blog more often lately and its stock price has gone up.

    In the meantime, stuff like this might have more of an effect on stock price than whether or not Apple blogs: http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06103004.htm

  205. “Sour grapes, you say? Maybe it is.”

    Why should I care if this guy has an effect? And if he is, what is that effect? Increase in stock value from mid 60s to breaking the technical barrier of 80?

    He claims Apple has done too little too late, that the apology is not enough. Of 200 companies with backdating issues (and maybe blogging issues too… ha, ha, ha) I cannot name another single company who has apologized or who is further along in getting the matter behind them. Maybe this is just some silly reporting jumping on the bandwagon that gets hits and attention… Maybe? Hmmm, that sounds familiar.

    “I’m just going off of what their own CEO says.”

    Jobs has said to you that Apple has a problem not having blogs (when they do have blogs)?

  206. “Sour grapes, you say? Maybe it is.”

    Why should I care if this guy has an effect? And if he is, what is that effect? Increase in stock value from mid 60s to breaking the technical barrier of 80?

    He claims Apple has done too little too late, that the apology is not enough. Of 200 companies with backdating issues (and maybe blogging issues too… ha, ha, ha) I cannot name another single company who has apologized or who is further along in getting the matter behind them. Maybe this is just some silly reporting jumping on the bandwagon that gets hits and attention… Maybe? Hmmm, that sounds familiar.

    “I’m just going off of what their own CEO says.”

    Jobs has said to you that Apple has a problem not having blogs (when they do have blogs)?

  207. I don’t have it. I’m just going off of what their own CEO says. But, maybe it’s just good wine and people are discovering it all on its own.

    Or maybe, it’s just part of what Geobbels pointed out is a rather mature, large scale growing of the company, and the CEO is astute enough to let blogging take the public credit for it, because he knows that no one will question his claims in a serious manner outside of maybe the analyst community, who already know better. Robert, come on, you have supposedly had journalist training, and you saw the crap that Gates et al pulled in court. You mean it never occured to you that a CEO might engage in misdirection as PR?

    Or was he saying something that you wanted to hear so badly that you just took him at his word, because it gave some proof, however thin, to your own party line.

    There’s a lot of variables that go into stock price. I can’t nail any one variable on the stock price. Google has been encouraging its employees to blog more often lately and its stock price has gone up.

    Right. So maybe blogging is not the end all and be all of things, no matter how much you believe it is, and dude, by the way you talk about it, it’s faith man. All you’re missing is an ugly suit and bad hair.

    In the meantime, stuff like this might have more of an effect on stock price than whether or not Apple blogs: http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06103004.htm

    I stopped taking Motley Fool seriously on anything quite a few years ago, when I realized that they were far more interested in pushing the Church of the Motley Fool than in actually helping people invest better.

  208. I don’t have it. I’m just going off of what their own CEO says. But, maybe it’s just good wine and people are discovering it all on its own.

    Or maybe, it’s just part of what Geobbels pointed out is a rather mature, large scale growing of the company, and the CEO is astute enough to let blogging take the public credit for it, because he knows that no one will question his claims in a serious manner outside of maybe the analyst community, who already know better. Robert, come on, you have supposedly had journalist training, and you saw the crap that Gates et al pulled in court. You mean it never occured to you that a CEO might engage in misdirection as PR?

    Or was he saying something that you wanted to hear so badly that you just took him at his word, because it gave some proof, however thin, to your own party line.

    There’s a lot of variables that go into stock price. I can’t nail any one variable on the stock price. Google has been encouraging its employees to blog more often lately and its stock price has gone up.

    Right. So maybe blogging is not the end all and be all of things, no matter how much you believe it is, and dude, by the way you talk about it, it’s faith man. All you’re missing is an ugly suit and bad hair.

    In the meantime, stuff like this might have more of an effect on stock price than whether or not Apple blogs: http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06103004.htm

    I stopped taking Motley Fool seriously on anything quite a few years ago, when I realized that they were far more interested in pushing the Church of the Motley Fool than in actually helping people invest better.

  209. **“I’m just going off of what their own CEO says.”

    Jobs has said to you that Apple has a problem not having blogs (when they do have blogs)? **

    Oh, I get it, John’s post cleared that up for me. So wait: your most concrete evidence of a blog’s effect on the bottomline (which actually seems quite clearly extremely spurious on the face of it) is based on the CEO’s say so?

    Brilliant! And this is what we get from blogs. 96% of all search results on Stormhoek are bloggers blogging how blogging lovely blogs are, repeating this nonsense: “through a blog and blog strategy alone we have doubled sales.” Jesus, if only one blogger gave a sh!t about reality and didn’t want to hype blogs, this claim could have been discredited in a second. But I guess when your getting free cases of wine (how many thousands of those cases were given to every blog event over the last year or more?) and it validates what you want to hear that constitutes concrete proof, huh?

  210. **“I’m just going off of what their own CEO says.”

    Jobs has said to you that Apple has a problem not having blogs (when they do have blogs)? **

    Oh, I get it, John’s post cleared that up for me. So wait: your most concrete evidence of a blog’s effect on the bottomline (which actually seems quite clearly extremely spurious on the face of it) is based on the CEO’s say so?

    Brilliant! And this is what we get from blogs. 96% of all search results on Stormhoek are bloggers blogging how blogging lovely blogs are, repeating this nonsense: “through a blog and blog strategy alone we have doubled sales.” Jesus, if only one blogger gave a sh!t about reality and didn’t want to hype blogs, this claim could have been discredited in a second. But I guess when your getting free cases of wine (how many thousands of those cases were given to every blog event over the last year or more?) and it validates what you want to hear that constitutes concrete proof, huh?

  211. John Welch said it better than I could. Scoble, I don’t know of any CEO or CIO that is going to engage in something based on faith. That’s great you believe in The Church of Blogging. I hope you continue to pay your tithing, take your communion and are ultimately saved. But this is the epitiome of being all hat and no cattle. You have super secret double probation data you can’t share so we have to take you on faith? Sorry, that won’t sell in any boardroom. Like John said, you are sounding like a televangilist. But again, I prefer Blogo-Facist given the way you want to engage in the debate.

    I guess you took your former MS title WAY too literally.

  212. John Welch said it better than I could. Scoble, I don’t know of any CEO or CIO that is going to engage in something based on faith. That’s great you believe in The Church of Blogging. I hope you continue to pay your tithing, take your communion and are ultimately saved. But this is the epitiome of being all hat and no cattle. You have super secret double probation data you can’t share so we have to take you on faith? Sorry, that won’t sell in any boardroom. Like John said, you are sounding like a televangilist. But again, I prefer Blogo-Facist given the way you want to engage in the debate.

    I guess you took your former MS title WAY too literally.