A Zunester’s response (Microsoft employee)

October 29, 2006 By

One of my favorite employees at Microsoft was David Caulton. His analysis of various things was always interesting. Here he responds to my post about Microsoft’s Zune. He was the guy who showed off Apple’s iPod in a meeting I was in.

What I mean by conversationality is “will someone who is sitting next to me in the Seattle Airport ask me what that cool new thing I’m wearing is all about?”

The white headphones caused those kinds of conversations. I saw them happen multiple times (I agree that they won’t happen anymore cause white headphones are so commonplace).

If a product causes conversations to happen, then it’ll see more adoption quicker.

Filed Under: 1
Newer Comments →
  • http://www.zunerama.com/ Harvey

    I think Caulton is right that the white iPod cords are so commonplace now that they don’t get a second glance.

    I think Zune players will be somewhat eyecatching at first with the larger screen. There has been such limited marketing of Zune so far, though, that most people won’t know enough to say, “Hey, man, is that the new so-called iPod-killer from Microsoft?”

    - Harvey
    (Zunerama)

  • http://www.zunerama.com/ Harvey

    I think Caulton is right that the white iPod cords are so commonplace now that they don’t get a second glance.

    I think Zune players will be somewhat eyecatching at first with the larger screen. There has been such limited marketing of Zune so far, though, that most people won’t know enough to say, “Hey, man, is that the new so-called iPod-killer from Microsoft?”

    - Harvey
    (Zunerama)

  • http://www.zunerama.com Harvey

    I think Caulton is right that the white iPod cords are so commonplace now that they don’t get a second glance.

    I think Zune players will be somewhat eyecatching at first with the larger screen. There has been such limited marketing of Zune so far, though, that most people won’t know enough to say, “Hey, man, is that the new so-called iPod-killer from Microsoft?”

    - Harvey
    (Zunerama)

  • http://www.axvius.com/aaron Aaron Axvig

    The way I see it, people are going to see that large screen and ask questions. Of course, once you tell them it’s a new MP3 player from Microsoft that plays video, they’re still gonna say “Oh, so it’s a new video iPod?”

  • http://www.axvius.com/aaron Aaron Axvig

    The way I see it, people are going to see that large screen and ask questions. Of course, once you tell them it’s a new MP3 player from Microsoft that plays video, they’re still gonna say “Oh, so it’s a new video iPod?”

  • http://www.axvius.com/aaron Aaron Axvig

    The way I see it, people are going to see that large screen and ask questions. Of course, once you tell them it’s a new MP3 player from Microsoft that plays video, they’re still gonna say “Oh, so it’s a new video iPod?”

  • Guest

    >>I think Zune players will be somewhat eyecatching at first with the larger screen.

    Possibly but I seldom even see the iPod body anymore. I just see the headphones and have no idea if the listener has an iPod video, Nano, Shuffle or whatever. I’ll bet some people buy Apple’s white headphones and plug them into a ghetto iRiver or Creative player just to look cool. The Zune’s sweet screen may not be seen by many people leading to few conversations.

    There’s nothing exciting enough about the Zune to get most iPod owners to switch. The Wifi could have been cool but it’s not in current implementation. The screen on the Zune is really sweet but I’d prefer a smaller screen and podcasting support. How did they miss that, even at launch? I can imagine every review mentioning how clueless MS must be to miss that feature even if they add it later.

    Mr. Caulton seems like a reasonable guy who is doing his best to create a competitive product. He didn’t make excuses in his reply and I wish him luck in competing with the iPod.

  • Guest

    >>I think Zune players will be somewhat eyecatching at first with the larger screen.

    Possibly but I seldom even see the iPod body anymore. I just see the headphones and have no idea if the listener has an iPod video, Nano, Shuffle or whatever. I’ll bet some people buy Apple’s white headphones and plug them into a ghetto iRiver or Creative player just to look cool. The Zune’s sweet screen may not be seen by many people leading to few conversations.

    There’s nothing exciting enough about the Zune to get most iPod owners to switch. The Wifi could have been cool but it’s not in current implementation. The screen on the Zune is really sweet but I’d prefer a smaller screen and podcasting support. How did they miss that, even at launch? I can imagine every review mentioning how clueless MS must be to miss that feature even if they add it later.

    Mr. Caulton seems like a reasonable guy who is doing his best to create a competitive product. He didn’t make excuses in his reply and I wish him luck in competing with the iPod.

  • http://blog.nordquist.org Brett Nordquist

    >>I think Zune players will be somewhat eyecatching at first with the larger screen.

    Possibly but I seldom even see the iPod body anymore. I just see the headphones and have no idea if the listener has an iPod video, Nano, Shuffle or whatever. I’ll bet some people buy Apple’s white headphones and plug them into a ghetto iRiver or Creative player just to look cool. The Zune’s sweet screen may not be seen by many people leading to few conversations.

    There’s nothing exciting enough about the Zune to get most iPod owners to switch. The Wifi could have been cool but it’s not in current implementation. The screen on the Zune is really sweet but I’d prefer a smaller screen and podcasting support. How did they miss that, even at launch? I can imagine every review mentioning how clueless MS must be to miss that feature even if they add it later.

    Mr. Caulton seems like a reasonable guy who is doing his best to create a competitive product. He didn’t make excuses in his reply and I wish him luck in competing with the iPod.

  • http://www.strengthradio.com/ Jason

    OY! Since when is an iriver ghetto? Show me your high society ipod converting line in to mp3 wydontcha?

  • http://www.strengthradio.com/ Jason

    OY! Since when is an iriver ghetto? Show me your high society ipod converting line in to mp3 wydontcha?

  • http://www.strengthradio.com Jason

    OY! Since when is an iriver ghetto? Show me your high society ipod converting line in to mp3 wydontcha?

  • iPlay

    iPod is in a category on its own.
    Zune, iRiver, Zen and others are competing for what is left of the market.

    They are all good, they just don’t have endorsed the trademarked apple cool factor. Poor the one that has the MS uncool stigma.

  • iPlay

    iPod is in a category on its own.
    Zune, iRiver, Zen and others are competing for what is left of the market.

    They are all good, they just don’t have endorsed the trademarked apple cool factor. Poor the one that has the MS uncool stigma.

  • iPlay

    iPod is in a category on its own.
    Zune, iRiver, Zen and others are competing for what is left of the market.

    They are all good, they just don’t have endorsed the trademarked apple cool factor. Poor the one that has the MS uncool stigma.

  • http://superrob.blogspot.com/ Rob Stevens

    Asking questions and provoking conversation doesn’t mean that the product in question will see increased adoption. It’s a factor, possibly even a necessary factor, but not a sufficient one.

    Take the Tablet PC, for example. At the beginning of every quarter, I get asked a bunch of questions about it. Every time I take it to a conference, I get asked questions about it. I still know very few people for whom the conversation has led to a purchase, despite them being very enthusiastic about it after we talk. I suspect that something similar happens with other “tableteers”, since Tablet PC sales are still quite slow.

    Price is a factor. Support for outside software is a factor. “Cool” is a factor. Sometimes, these other factors will overwhelm any inherent conversationality built into the device. You’ve got to have more than that.

  • http://superrob.blogspot.com/ Rob Stevens

    Asking questions and provoking conversation doesn’t mean that the product in question will see increased adoption. It’s a factor, possibly even a necessary factor, but not a sufficient one.

    Take the Tablet PC, for example. At the beginning of every quarter, I get asked a bunch of questions about it. Every time I take it to a conference, I get asked questions about it. I still know very few people for whom the conversation has led to a purchase, despite them being very enthusiastic about it after we talk. I suspect that something similar happens with other “tableteers”, since Tablet PC sales are still quite slow.

    Price is a factor. Support for outside software is a factor. “Cool” is a factor. Sometimes, these other factors will overwhelm any inherent conversationality built into the device. You’ve got to have more than that.

  • http://superrob.blogspot.com Rob Stevens

    Asking questions and provoking conversation doesn’t mean that the product in question will see increased adoption. It’s a factor, possibly even a necessary factor, but not a sufficient one.

    Take the Tablet PC, for example. At the beginning of every quarter, I get asked a bunch of questions about it. Every time I take it to a conference, I get asked questions about it. I still know very few people for whom the conversation has led to a purchase, despite them being very enthusiastic about it after we talk. I suspect that something similar happens with other “tableteers”, since Tablet PC sales are still quite slow.

    Price is a factor. Support for outside software is a factor. “Cool” is a factor. Sometimes, these other factors will overwhelm any inherent conversationality built into the device. You’ve got to have more than that.

  • Christopher Coulter

    Only a Microsoft employee, would go “updateability is key” and “yeah, but wait a bit.”

    Yah hit the ground running, CE is not a ’3rd time got it right’ kinda excuse thing, they can somewhat get away with that in software, as Vista SP2 might be actually functional, but you just can’t do that with hardware, running the ground running or it’s dead. Least won’t have the supply chain trainwrecks like 360, as no to low demand. Heck, they will have to resort to massive junkets and giving them away at Conferences, to get any noticeable press flabbing. Not quite SPOT, but close.

  • Christopher Coulter

    Only a Microsoft employee, would go “updateability is key” and “yeah, but wait a bit.”

    Yah hit the ground running, CE is not a ’3rd time got it right’ kinda excuse thing, they can somewhat get away with that in software, as Vista SP2 might be actually functional, but you just can’t do that with hardware, running the ground running or it’s dead. Least won’t have the supply chain trainwrecks like 360, as no to low demand. Heck, they will have to resort to massive junkets and giving them away at Conferences, to get any noticeable press flabbing. Not quite SPOT, but close.

  • Christopher Coulter

    Only a Microsoft employee, would go “updateability is key” and “yeah, but wait a bit.”

    Yah hit the ground running, CE is not a ’3rd time got it right’ kinda excuse thing, they can somewhat get away with that in software, as Vista SP2 might be actually functional, but you just can’t do that with hardware, running the ground running or it’s dead. Least won’t have the supply chain trainwrecks like 360, as no to low demand. Heck, they will have to resort to massive junkets and giving them away at Conferences, to get any noticeable press flabbing. Not quite SPOT, but close.

  • Pingback: One line says it all. « Geek Squad

  • http://zune60.net/ Sportsunit

    whip out a brown zune and you’re sure to get some attention.

  • http://zune60.net/ Sportsunit

    whip out a brown zune and you’re sure to get some attention.

  • http://zune60.net Sportsunit

    whip out a brown zune and you’re sure to get some attention.

  • samcollins

    MS may not make it cool. But historically, MS still has beaten it’s competitors including Apple. Macs were almost extinct for over a decade till this new resurgence took place. Whether MS can repeat that is the question on the plate here. Also, MS has deep pockets, they can price anyone out of the market. They can start selling 160 GB Zunes for $99 for all we know. Will the iPod survive that? We don’t know that. Let’s not forget one thing, MS can tie the Zune with a variety of things, it can start packaging it with Vista, give you a discount on it when you buy some MS product or simply put a icon on your Vista desktop saying “Buy Zune here” or something. There are things MS can do which Apple cannot. So, to say anything at this point is not a wise decision by any means. All the other “iPod-killers” did not have people’s PCs at their disposal, this one does, so, Wait and Watch.

  • samcollins

    MS may not make it cool. But historically, MS still has beaten it’s competitors including Apple. Macs were almost extinct for over a decade till this new resurgence took place. Whether MS can repeat that is the question on the plate here. Also, MS has deep pockets, they can price anyone out of the market. They can start selling 160 GB Zunes for $99 for all we know. Will the iPod survive that? We don’t know that. Let’s not forget one thing, MS can tie the Zune with a variety of things, it can start packaging it with Vista, give you a discount on it when you buy some MS product or simply put a icon on your Vista desktop saying “Buy Zune here” or something. There are things MS can do which Apple cannot. So, to say anything at this point is not a wise decision by any means. All the other “iPod-killers” did not have people’s PCs at their disposal, this one does, so, Wait and Watch.

  • samcollins

    MS may not make it cool. But historically, MS still has beaten it’s competitors including Apple. Macs were almost extinct for over a decade till this new resurgence took place. Whether MS can repeat that is the question on the plate here. Also, MS has deep pockets, they can price anyone out of the market. They can start selling 160 GB Zunes for $99 for all we know. Will the iPod survive that? We don’t know that. Let’s not forget one thing, MS can tie the Zune with a variety of things, it can start packaging it with Vista, give you a discount on it when you buy some MS product or simply put a icon on your Vista desktop saying “Buy Zune here” or something. There are things MS can do which Apple cannot. So, to say anything at this point is not a wise decision by any means. All the other “iPod-killers” did not have people’s PCs at their disposal, this one does, so, Wait and Watch.

  • Bat Masterson

    “Of course, once you tell them it’s a new MP3 player from Microsoft that plays video, they’re still gonna say “Oh, so it’s a new video iPod?” ”

    That would actually be a good thing for MS and iPod competitors. Water-down the “iPod” name so that it simply means “portable media player” rather than a particular brand (which is why Apple was bitching about the “podcast” term a couple weeks ago). If a person walks into a drugstore intent on buying a box of Kleenex and walks out with a competing brand of tissue paper but still refers to it as “Kleenex”, he’s done the Kleenex company no favors.

    So fine, let people buy Zunes and call them “iPods”. MS would take that in a heartbeat.

    “They are all good, they just don’t have endorsed the trademarked apple cool factor. Poor the one that has the MS uncool stigma.”

    Stigmas and cool factors change. Go back and read the commentaries when Apple announced the iPod. Many were trashing Apple, saying that iRiver, Rios, etc would crush them. Apple wasn’t exactly “cool” back then (outside the Mac userbase). As for MS “uncool stigma”, visit any video game message board and you’ll see countless posts from people saying they used to regard MS as “uncool” but Xbox changed their mind. Zune may build on that.

  • Bat Masterson

    “Of course, once you tell them it’s a new MP3 player from Microsoft that plays video, they’re still gonna say “Oh, so it’s a new video iPod?” ”

    That would actually be a good thing for MS and iPod competitors. Water-down the “iPod” name so that it simply means “portable media player” rather than a particular brand (which is why Apple was bitching about the “podcast” term a couple weeks ago). If a person walks into a drugstore intent on buying a box of Kleenex and walks out with a competing brand of tissue paper but still refers to it as “Kleenex”, he’s done the Kleenex company no favors.

    So fine, let people buy Zunes and call them “iPods”. MS would take that in a heartbeat.

    “They are all good, they just don’t have endorsed the trademarked apple cool factor. Poor the one that has the MS uncool stigma.”

    Stigmas and cool factors change. Go back and read the commentaries when Apple announced the iPod. Many were trashing Apple, saying that iRiver, Rios, etc would crush them. Apple wasn’t exactly “cool” back then (outside the Mac userbase). As for MS “uncool stigma”, visit any video game message board and you’ll see countless posts from people saying they used to regard MS as “uncool” but Xbox changed their mind. Zune may build on that.

  • Bat Masterson

    “Of course, once you tell them it’s a new MP3 player from Microsoft that plays video, they’re still gonna say “Oh, so it’s a new video iPod?” ”

    That would actually be a good thing for MS and iPod competitors. Water-down the “iPod” name so that it simply means “portable media player” rather than a particular brand (which is why Apple was bitching about the “podcast” term a couple weeks ago). If a person walks into a drugstore intent on buying a box of Kleenex and walks out with a competing brand of tissue paper but still refers to it as “Kleenex”, he’s done the Kleenex company no favors.

    So fine, let people buy Zunes and call them “iPods”. MS would take that in a heartbeat.

    “They are all good, they just don’t have endorsed the trademarked apple cool factor. Poor the one that has the MS uncool stigma.”

    Stigmas and cool factors change. Go back and read the commentaries when Apple announced the iPod. Many were trashing Apple, saying that iRiver, Rios, etc would crush them. Apple wasn’t exactly “cool” back then (outside the Mac userbase). As for MS “uncool stigma”, visit any video game message board and you’ll see countless posts from people saying they used to regard MS as “uncool” but Xbox changed their mind. Zune may build on that.

  • Ross

    2008 to get a Zune in the UK? I’ll have forgotten about it by the time it launches.

  • Ross

    2008 to get a Zune in the UK? I’ll have forgotten about it by the time it launches.

  • Ross

    2008 to get a Zune in the UK? I’ll have forgotten about it by the time it launches.

  • Russ Henry

    Don’t be surprised when you see a commercial from Apple mocking the ZUNE’s larger screen being worn by tele-tubby crew tied around their bellies …while a sleek group of runway models sport the iPod.

  • Russ Henry

    Don’t be surprised when you see a commercial from Apple mocking the ZUNE’s larger screen being worn by tele-tubby crew tied around their bellies …while a sleek group of runway models sport the iPod.

  • Russ Henry

    Don’t be surprised when you see a commercial from Apple mocking the ZUNE’s larger screen being worn by tele-tubby crew tied around their bellies …while a sleek group of runway models sport the iPod.

  • Diego

    “MS may not make it cool. But historically, MS still has beaten it’s competitors including Apple. Macs were almost extinct for over a decade till this new resurgence took place. Whether MS can repeat that is the question on the plate here. Also, MS has deep pockets, they can price anyone out of the market. They can start selling 160 GB Zunes for $99 for all we know.”

    For me it’s not about who has the most money. Who has the most clout in the industry. For me it’s about using great products all around. Products that look great too. Apple has that. It garners passion, loyalty, and yes… sometimes love. Not that sort of love. Not the, I want to get in between the sheets with my sexy black MacBook kind of love. But Mac users (some of them) love their machines. Microsoft doesn’t have that. Look at the old Mac 1984 Superbowl commercial (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jEI4XRfHSJo). The figure on the big screen and the grey drones in that commercial are Microsoft. Boring, slow and uninspiring.

    If people are happy living their lives using second (or third) best products, and maybe just because it’s the biggest seller out there, then that’s fine. I want more than second best.

  • Diego

    “MS may not make it cool. But historically, MS still has beaten it’s competitors including Apple. Macs were almost extinct for over a decade till this new resurgence took place. Whether MS can repeat that is the question on the plate here. Also, MS has deep pockets, they can price anyone out of the market. They can start selling 160 GB Zunes for $99 for all we know.”

    For me it’s not about who has the most money. Who has the most clout in the industry. For me it’s about using great products all around. Products that look great too. Apple has that. It garners passion, loyalty, and yes… sometimes love. Not that sort of love. Not the, I want to get in between the sheets with my sexy black MacBook kind of love. But Mac users (some of them) love their machines. Microsoft doesn’t have that. Look at the old Mac 1984 Superbowl commercial (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jEI4XRfHSJo). The figure on the big screen and the grey drones in that commercial are Microsoft. Boring, slow and uninspiring.

    If people are happy living their lives using second (or third) best products, and maybe just because it’s the biggest seller out there, then that’s fine. I want more than second best.

  • Diego

    “MS may not make it cool. But historically, MS still has beaten it’s competitors including Apple. Macs were almost extinct for over a decade till this new resurgence took place. Whether MS can repeat that is the question on the plate here. Also, MS has deep pockets, they can price anyone out of the market. They can start selling 160 GB Zunes for $99 for all we know.”

    For me it’s not about who has the most money. Who has the most clout in the industry. For me it’s about using great products all around. Products that look great too. Apple has that. It garners passion, loyalty, and yes… sometimes love. Not that sort of love. Not the, I want to get in between the sheets with my sexy black MacBook kind of love. But Mac users (some of them) love their machines. Microsoft doesn’t have that. Look at the old Mac 1984 Superbowl commercial (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jEI4XRfHSJo). The figure on the big screen and the grey drones in that commercial are Microsoft. Boring, slow and uninspiring.

    If people are happy living their lives using second (or third) best products, and maybe just because it’s the biggest seller out there, then that’s fine. I want more than second best.

  • http://foolswisdom.com/~lloyd foolswisdom

    “One of my favorite employees at Microsoft was…” Was? What did he do to remove himself from your list of favorites ;-)

  • http://foolswisdom.com/~lloyd foolswisdom

    “One of my favorite employees at Microsoft was…” Was? What did he do to remove himself from your list of favorites ;-)

  • http://foolswisdom.com/~lloyd foolswisdom

    “One of my favorite employees at Microsoft was…” Was? What did he do to remove himself from your list of favorites ;-)

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Fools: sorry, from back when I worked at Microsoft when I worked with him.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Fools: sorry, from back when I worked at Microsoft when I worked with him.

  • http://scobleizer.wordpress.com/ Robert Scoble

    Fools: sorry, from back when I worked at Microsoft when I worked with him.

  • mike

    “Water-down the “iPod” name so that it simply means “portable media player” rather than a particular brand (which is why Apple was bitching about the “podcast” term a couple weeks ago). If a person walks into a drugstore intent on buying a box of Kleenex and walks out with a competing brand of tissue paper but still refers to it as “Kleenex”, he’s done the Kleenex company no favors”

    hehehehehehhe… keep talking.. this is frigging hilarious

  • mike

    “Water-down the “iPod” name so that it simply means “portable media player” rather than a particular brand (which is why Apple was bitching about the “podcast” term a couple weeks ago). If a person walks into a drugstore intent on buying a box of Kleenex and walks out with a competing brand of tissue paper but still refers to it as “Kleenex”, he’s done the Kleenex company no favors”

    hehehehehehhe… keep talking.. this is frigging hilarious

  • mike

    “As for MS “uncool stigma”, visit any video game message board and you’ll see countless posts from people saying they used to regard MS as “uncool” but Xbox changed their mind. Zune may build on that.”

    Sorry to pick on you guys.. they don’t call it the MS XBOX for a reason..

    MS is for business software. Xbox is for games. Get it?

  • mike

    “As for MS “uncool stigma”, visit any video game message board and you’ll see countless posts from people saying they used to regard MS as “uncool” but Xbox changed their mind. Zune may build on that.”

    Sorry to pick on you guys.. they don’t call it the MS XBOX for a reason..

    MS is for business software. Xbox is for games. Get it?

Newer Comments →