Retrevo gang tests out Microsoft Zune OOBE

So, what should I do with the two Zunes today to test them out? Well, I didn’t open them last night. This morning I came in and brought them to an interview at Retrevo where we opened them for the first time and then spent more than an hour playing with them and passing them around the engineering team and talking about the first impressions of the Zune. Retrevo is a gadget search engine that’s pretty interesting. They say it’s the ultimate consumer electronics search engine.

Here’s their engine’s result set for Zune.

There’s eight guys from the Retrevo team including engineers, marketers, and the CEO, Vipin Jain.

First off disaster. The one Microsoft loaded had an error on it and needed to be rebooted, which deleted all the content on it. (One was opened and loaded by Microsoft with more content, that one arrived with an error on its screen. The other one, unopened by Microsoft, worked perfectly).

We fixed that and then started playing. The install took more than 15 minutes.

What do the geeks at Retrevo think?

Andrew Eisner (who used to be in charge of testing for ZDLabs and also ran MacUser labs) says that the radio wasn’t very good. Needed to walk over by the window to use it. But, that’s unscientific.

The entire team has iPods. So, this is an experienced music player group. The team says they are all gadget freaks, which is why they work at a gadget search engine.

Other reactions?

Box? The external box is great, Charles Wilson says.

The feel of the Zune? Great. “Brown is the new black,” Matthew Stotts says. We have one brown and one black. It feels a lot nicer than it looks on the Web. Nice anti-scratch design. “I like the translucence,” Charles says.

Interface? Scroll wheel? Matthew says he instantly tried to use it like an iPod. Was disappointed that it didn’t work.

Volume? Andrew says that the volume didn’t go loud enough.

Music sharing? They are playing with it right now. Figuring out how to send it took a few minutes. Actually sending a song took less than a minute. “It’s quick,” Charles says.

Screen quality? “Pretty good,” says Kirk Chen. “Nice looking,” Andrew says. “Better than the iPod,” says Jiang Wu. “For cartoons this screen is great,” Jiang says.
Smudging (we’re eating pizza). “No smudging,” Andrew says.

Overall feature set? “Doesn’t seem like there’s much to it,” Andrew says, which starts a discussion of what else the team would want. Games.

Video? “Not bad.” Being able to spin the screen is a nice touch Vipin says. They note that my videos that I’m filming won’t be able to be played (I record in Quicktime). On the other hand, my videos don’t currently work on iPod either (I need to re-compress them for the smaller size and format that the iPod needs.

Case? “Sensual feel,” Charles says. It’s a soft bag.

Sharing of video? Doesn’t work yet.

Andrew notes that you can’t record from radio. “Other MP3 players let you do that,” he says.

“How zune will it be hacked?” Andrew says. “If people can write third-party applications for it then you’d see people writing open-source browsers and other applications.”

Battery? Can’t be replaced and the case isn’t designed to be opened (at least that we could figure out).

We couldn’t test whether or not a ripped MP3 could be shared.

Andrew wonders how it works with podcasts (he listens to TWiT and NPR, among others).

Ruggedness? It seems more rugged, Vipin says.

Overall impression? “I don’t like the bulkiness,” Vipin says. “If I were a pre-teen or teen and I didn’t have an iPod, I’d buy this. Mostly for the sharing features,” Matthew says. Overall, though, the team gave it thumbs down compared to the iPod. But, not a strong thumbs down. It did — at minimum — intrigue them.

If you don’t know what OOBE stands for, that’s “Out Of Box Experience.”

Comments

  1. Does the zune software includes re-encoding for videos (to the zune resolution and perhaps compatible file format) to save space (after all, most of the videos people will want to see are originally bigger than the zune’s resolution)?
    It’s a standard on most mp4 players btw, even the cheapest i’ve seen (here there is also a stronger case of file format of course).

    btw scoble, is the song transfer really fast enough? when I excahnge ringtones for example with a friend there is usually that uncomfortable pause in the conversation, where both of us are waiting for the cellphones to finish.
    On one-on-one situations (versus being in one room with a group of people), don’t you think a bit less than a minute (i.e. 40 sec.) would cause to too long awkward pauses and thus is too long? it is a social aspect and not directly technological, but it is a social product/feature.

  2. Does the zune software includes re-encoding for videos (to the zune resolution and perhaps compatible file format) to save space (after all, most of the videos people will want to see are originally bigger than the zune’s resolution)?
    It’s a standard on most mp4 players btw, even the cheapest i’ve seen (here there is also a stronger case of file format of course).

    btw scoble, is the song transfer really fast enough? when I excahnge ringtones for example with a friend there is usually that uncomfortable pause in the conversation, where both of us are waiting for the cellphones to finish.
    On one-on-one situations (versus being in one room with a group of people), don’t you think a bit less than a minute (i.e. 40 sec.) would cause to too long awkward pauses and thus is too long? it is a social aspect and not directly technological, but it is a social product/feature.

  3. Does the zune software includes re-encoding for videos (to the zune resolution and perhaps compatible file format) to save space (after all, most of the videos people will want to see are originally bigger than the zune’s resolution)?
    It’s a standard on most mp4 players btw, even the cheapest i’ve seen (here there is also a stronger case of file format of course).

    btw scoble, is the song transfer really fast enough? when I excahnge ringtones for example with a friend there is usually that uncomfortable pause in the conversation, where both of us are waiting for the cellphones to finish.
    On one-on-one situations (versus being in one room with a group of people), don’t you think a bit less than a minute (i.e. 40 sec.) would cause to too long awkward pauses and thus is too long? it is a social aspect and not directly technological, but it is a social product/feature.

  4. Wow – I half-expected this to be a bad review, since these were gadget guys – i thought they’d tear it apart.. I was pleasantly suprised that they gave it pretty good reviews.. Like all of MS’s products, I’m sure it will need one or two revisions before the product becomes anything spectacular (does anyone even remember the first version of the iPod – it was a joke!) but i think that Microsoft has done a great job w/ the Zune so far.. I cant wait to see what the next year or two holds for it!

  5. Wow – I half-expected this to be a bad review, since these were gadget guys – i thought they’d tear it apart.. I was pleasantly suprised that they gave it pretty good reviews.. Like all of MS’s products, I’m sure it will need one or two revisions before the product becomes anything spectacular (does anyone even remember the first version of the iPod – it was a joke!) but i think that Microsoft has done a great job w/ the Zune so far.. I cant wait to see what the next year or two holds for it!

  6. Wow – I half-expected this to be a bad review, since these were gadget guys – i thought they’d tear it apart.. I was pleasantly suprised that they gave it pretty good reviews.. Like all of MS’s products, I’m sure it will need one or two revisions before the product becomes anything spectacular (does anyone even remember the first version of the iPod – it was a joke!) but i think that Microsoft has done a great job w/ the Zune so far.. I cant wait to see what the next year or two holds for it!

  7. By “in the video” I mean in your interview with the Retrevo guys.
    If you can put a video demo of the zune file sharing it would be a great complement to the interview with Matt Jubelirer, where a demo of the feature was omitted due to technical diffuclties, if i recall correctly.

  8. By “in the video” I mean in your interview with the Retrevo guys.
    If you can put a video demo of the zune file sharing it would be a great complement to the interview with Matt Jubelirer, where a demo of the feature was omitted due to technical diffuclties, if i recall correctly.

  9. By “in the video” I mean in your interview with the Retrevo guys.
    If you can put a video demo of the zune file sharing it would be a great complement to the interview with Matt Jubelirer, where a demo of the feature was omitted due to technical diffuclties, if i recall correctly.

  10. Mike: Patrick is in love with Steve Jobs and already bought an 80GB iPod. He doesn’t see anything in Zune that’d get him to switch his allegience.

    Maayan: I didn’t get that on video — I was there to interview their CEO and get a demo of their service.

    I thought about doing a video, but this works just as well.

  11. Mike: Patrick is in love with Steve Jobs and already bought an 80GB iPod. He doesn’t see anything in Zune that’d get him to switch his allegience.

    Maayan: I didn’t get that on video — I was there to interview their CEO and get a demo of their service.

    I thought about doing a video, but this works just as well.

  12. Mike: Patrick is in love with Steve Jobs and already bought an 80GB iPod. He doesn’t see anything in Zune that’d get him to switch his allegience.

    Maayan: I didn’t get that on video — I was there to interview their CEO and get a demo of their service.

    I thought about doing a video, but this works just as well.

  13. Robert said – “The entire team has iPods. So, this is an experienced music player group”

    thats completely wrong. how can they be experienced when they only have one player? i’ve lived in one house all my life so that makes me experienced on houses.

    If you had told me they’ve used a varying amount of different players then sure i’d believe that they were experienced. as much as some people want to believe the ipod isn’t the be all and end all of MP3 players.

  14. Robert said – “The entire team has iPods. So, this is an experienced music player group”

    thats completely wrong. how can they be experienced when they only have one player? i’ve lived in one house all my life so that makes me experienced on houses.

    If you had told me they’ve used a varying amount of different players then sure i’d believe that they were experienced. as much as some people want to believe the ipod isn’t the be all and end all of MP3 players.

  15. Robert said – “The entire team has iPods. So, this is an experienced music player group”

    thats completely wrong. how can they be experienced when they only have one player? i’ve lived in one house all my life so that makes me experienced on houses.

    If you had told me they’ve used a varying amount of different players then sure i’d believe that they were experienced. as much as some people want to believe the ipod isn’t the be all and end all of MP3 players.

  16. Maayan and Robert,

    It is a little-known secret that Microsoft offers free Windows Movie Maker and Media Encoder software to re-encode videos: the software will automatically use the right screen size and compression for mobile devices (including Zune although I have not tested it), to make the file a defined target sizw or you can define your own settings.

    Movie Maker is installed with SP2 I believe, both are available online.

  17. Maayan and Robert,

    It is a little-known secret that Microsoft offers free Windows Movie Maker and Media Encoder software to re-encode videos: the software will automatically use the right screen size and compression for mobile devices (including Zune although I have not tested it), to make the file a defined target sizw or you can define your own settings.

    Movie Maker is installed with SP2 I believe, both are available online.

  18. Maayan and Robert,

    It is a little-known secret that Microsoft offers free Windows Movie Maker and Media Encoder software to re-encode videos: the software will automatically use the right screen size and compression for mobile devices (including Zune although I have not tested it), to make the file a defined target sizw or you can define your own settings.

    Movie Maker is installed with SP2 I believe, both are available online.

  19. Jared: maybe I didn’t make myself clear. Between the group of them is more gadgets than you’ll find on Engadget. Many of them were bragging about how many iPods (plural) and other devices they owned. You’d be hard pressed to find eight people who knew more about gadgets. Maybe if you got the staff of Engadget together.

  20. Jared: maybe I didn’t make myself clear. Between the group of them is more gadgets than you’ll find on Engadget. Many of them were bragging about how many iPods (plural) and other devices they owned. You’d be hard pressed to find eight people who knew more about gadgets. Maybe if you got the staff of Engadget together.

  21. Jared: maybe I didn’t make myself clear. Between the group of them is more gadgets than you’ll find on Engadget. Many of them were bragging about how many iPods (plural) and other devices they owned. You’d be hard pressed to find eight people who knew more about gadgets. Maybe if you got the staff of Engadget together.

  22. Nice site.
    When I searched for specifiec models it gave me very good results – i would dare to say faster/more precise than google for searching reviews and user manuals.

    Searching through that site, I recalled your HDTV test:
    http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/10/07.html#a11393

    So I went and searched for “hdtv”.
    In “Manufacturer info” the #1 for some reason is “HDTV and your Media Center PC”.
    Second is Mitsubishi TV site, which is better. Links to actual products or relevant categories (versus the main site) are there, which is good, but they should be in the top places instead of “Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005: HDTV and your Media Center PC” (#1) and “Get Started with HDTV in Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005″ (#3).

    Searching for “mp3 players” was much better, directing me to Apple iPod (#1), Creative Zen (#2 & #3), SanDisk’s MP3 Players, Sony, Dell (their mp3 players category), etc.

    Too bad their site doesn’t support Opera well.

    @Gerardo – It should still be done automatically in the Zune software, as long as this is the way to upload movies.

  23. Nice site.
    When I searched for specifiec models it gave me very good results – i would dare to say faster/more precise than google for searching reviews and user manuals.

    Searching through that site, I recalled your HDTV test:
    http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/10/07.html#a11393

    So I went and searched for “hdtv”.
    In “Manufacturer info” the #1 for some reason is “HDTV and your Media Center PC”.
    Second is Mitsubishi TV site, which is better. Links to actual products or relevant categories (versus the main site) are there, which is good, but they should be in the top places instead of “Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005: HDTV and your Media Center PC” (#1) and “Get Started with HDTV in Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005″ (#3).

    Searching for “mp3 players” was much better, directing me to Apple iPod (#1), Creative Zen (#2 & #3), SanDisk’s MP3 Players, Sony, Dell (their mp3 players category), etc.

    Too bad their site doesn’t support Opera well.

    @Gerardo – It should still be done automatically in the Zune software, as long as this is the way to upload movies.

  24. Nice site.
    When I searched for specifiec models it gave me very good results – i would dare to say faster/more precise than google for searching reviews and user manuals.

    Searching through that site, I recalled your HDTV test:
    http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/10/07.html#a11393

    So I went and searched for “hdtv”.
    In “Manufacturer info” the #1 for some reason is “HDTV and your Media Center PC”.
    Second is Mitsubishi TV site, which is better. Links to actual products or relevant categories (versus the main site) are there, which is good, but they should be in the top places instead of “Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005: HDTV and your Media Center PC” (#1) and “Get Started with HDTV in Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005″ (#3).

    Searching for “mp3 players” was much better, directing me to Apple iPod (#1), Creative Zen (#2 & #3), SanDisk’s MP3 Players, Sony, Dell (their mp3 players category), etc.

    Too bad their site doesn’t support Opera well.

    @Gerardo – It should still be done automatically in the Zune software, as long as this is the way to upload movies.

  25. If I were Apple I would at least be concerned. Selling over 100K of iPods a day, this is a huge business for them – and Microsoft has much deeper pockets.

    Microsoft doesn’t even need to make a better product – just cheaper and “at least as cool”. The Zune seems to be winning some accolades on the cool factor. That should concern Apple.

    After going through three iPods in 18 months I decided to get a SanDisk device – with a user-changeable battery. Microsoft needs to offer the same. If I am Apple, I am not sleeping well. Apple is designing a market ripe for someone to take away from them.

  26. If I were Apple I would at least be concerned. Selling over 100K of iPods a day, this is a huge business for them – and Microsoft has much deeper pockets.

    Microsoft doesn’t even need to make a better product – just cheaper and “at least as cool”. The Zune seems to be winning some accolades on the cool factor. That should concern Apple.

    After going through three iPods in 18 months I decided to get a SanDisk device – with a user-changeable battery. Microsoft needs to offer the same. If I am Apple, I am not sleeping well. Apple is designing a market ripe for someone to take away from them.

  27. If I were Apple I would at least be concerned. Selling over 100K of iPods a day, this is a huge business for them – and Microsoft has much deeper pockets.

    Microsoft doesn’t even need to make a better product – just cheaper and “at least as cool”. The Zune seems to be winning some accolades on the cool factor. That should concern Apple.

    After going through three iPods in 18 months I decided to get a SanDisk device – with a user-changeable battery. Microsoft needs to offer the same. If I am Apple, I am not sleeping well. Apple is designing a market ripe for someone to take away from them.

  28. The Zune is another attempt by Microsoft to illegally extend their monopoly to music. They want to make it so you have to use Windows to listen to music. I hope they fail. I wished someone would stop them.

  29. The Zune is another attempt by Microsoft to illegally extend their monopoly to music. They want to make it so you have to use Windows to listen to music. I hope they fail. I wished someone would stop them.

  30. The Zune is another attempt by Microsoft to illegally extend their monopoly to music. They want to make it so you have to use Windows to listen to music. I hope they fail. I wished someone would stop them.

  31. It’s a sad deal for the non replaceable batteries. And the fact that errors can be made and upon fixing them would result in a catastrophic shock of losing all that was previously installed. I don’t mind about the bulkiness though, and the sharing time is quite impressive too. But I’m sticking with my Creative Vision:M. I guess we already knew this would be a disappointment the moment it got into the rumors.

  32. It’s a sad deal for the non replaceable batteries. And the fact that errors can be made and upon fixing them would result in a catastrophic shock of losing all that was previously installed. I don’t mind about the bulkiness though, and the sharing time is quite impressive too. But I’m sticking with my Creative Vision:M. I guess we already knew this would be a disappointment the moment it got into the rumors.

  33. It’s a sad deal for the non replaceable batteries. And the fact that errors can be made and upon fixing them would result in a catastrophic shock of losing all that was previously installed. I don’t mind about the bulkiness though, and the sharing time is quite impressive too. But I’m sticking with my Creative Vision:M. I guess we already knew this would be a disappointment the moment it got into the rumors.

  34. Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product). Zune has been talked up for it’s social networking “wireless” features – as recently as this morning on the Today Show. Don’t get all of ytour data from apple.com – they are slightly slanted in their views.

    Alfredo – you are simply a MS basher, and haven’t provided an argument at all other than, “I hope they fail”. And that says a lot about you. Illegally? How? And they want you to use Windows to listen to music – you bet your ass they do. What OS does Apple want you to use, and why is that “better” for me?

    Sure, I want free music and ice cream for everyone – but that isn’t going to happen. So barring that, I would prefer CHOICES. And for the first time in a few years Zune is offering us a choice.

    You may not agree that it is a better choice than iTunes, but choices in general are good for consumers. So I welcome Microsoft to the battle – and I really hope SanDisk does well, because the Sansa is a darned fine good player.

  35. Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product). Zune has been talked up for it’s social networking “wireless” features – as recently as this morning on the Today Show. Don’t get all of ytour data from apple.com – they are slightly slanted in their views.

    Alfredo – you are simply a MS basher, and haven’t provided an argument at all other than, “I hope they fail”. And that says a lot about you. Illegally? How? And they want you to use Windows to listen to music – you bet your ass they do. What OS does Apple want you to use, and why is that “better” for me?

    Sure, I want free music and ice cream for everyone – but that isn’t going to happen. So barring that, I would prefer CHOICES. And for the first time in a few years Zune is offering us a choice.

    You may not agree that it is a better choice than iTunes, but choices in general are good for consumers. So I welcome Microsoft to the battle – and I really hope SanDisk does well, because the Sansa is a darned fine good player.

  36. Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product). Zune has been talked up for it’s social networking “wireless” features – as recently as this morning on the Today Show. Don’t get all of ytour data from apple.com – they are slightly slanted in their views.

    Alfredo – you are simply a MS basher, and haven’t provided an argument at all other than, “I hope they fail”. And that says a lot about you. Illegally? How? And they want you to use Windows to listen to music – you bet your ass they do. What OS does Apple want you to use, and why is that “better” for me?

    Sure, I want free music and ice cream for everyone – but that isn’t going to happen. So barring that, I would prefer CHOICES. And for the first time in a few years Zune is offering us a choice.

    You may not agree that it is a better choice than iTunes, but choices in general are good for consumers. So I welcome Microsoft to the battle – and I really hope SanDisk does well, because the Sansa is a darned fine good player.

  37. Microsoft doesn’t even need to make a better product – just cheaper and “at least as cool”.

    How do you figure? Microsoft is a public company – of which I’m a part owner. Not a big one, mind you. They don’t run projects that aren’t making money indefinitely and if there’s a company that should be worried today it’s them and not Apple. Also, they can’t simply use their cash to underprice products in a competitive market. That got them into big trouble once and that kind of trouble can be measured in hundreds of millions, maybe billions.

    I’m guessing from what I’ve read and seen on shows like CNN the kids in Cupertino are high five’n one another.

    Not sure how Zune even got ok’d without securing a .com address. In case you didn’t think that mattered, ask 10 random people – maybe friends and family – to go to the Zune web site.

    I love my Apple products – but I also love my Microsoft stock – and I’m scared by what Redmond is pushing. As for some new path for “choice” that some Redmond fans are proclaiming – I’d simply ask “what about every other MP3 player on the market?” How does Zune offer more choice? It’s just different. And different at this speed isn’t going to raise my MSFT stock price very high.

  38. Microsoft doesn’t even need to make a better product – just cheaper and “at least as cool”.

    How do you figure? Microsoft is a public company – of which I’m a part owner. Not a big one, mind you. They don’t run projects that aren’t making money indefinitely and if there’s a company that should be worried today it’s them and not Apple. Also, they can’t simply use their cash to underprice products in a competitive market. That got them into big trouble once and that kind of trouble can be measured in hundreds of millions, maybe billions.

    I’m guessing from what I’ve read and seen on shows like CNN the kids in Cupertino are high five’n one another.

    Not sure how Zune even got ok’d without securing a .com address. In case you didn’t think that mattered, ask 10 random people – maybe friends and family – to go to the Zune web site.

    I love my Apple products – but I also love my Microsoft stock – and I’m scared by what Redmond is pushing. As for some new path for “choice” that some Redmond fans are proclaiming – I’d simply ask “what about every other MP3 player on the market?” How does Zune offer more choice? It’s just different. And different at this speed isn’t going to raise my MSFT stock price very high.

  39. Microsoft doesn’t even need to make a better product – just cheaper and “at least as cool”.

    How do you figure? Microsoft is a public company – of which I’m a part owner. Not a big one, mind you. They don’t run projects that aren’t making money indefinitely and if there’s a company that should be worried today it’s them and not Apple. Also, they can’t simply use their cash to underprice products in a competitive market. That got them into big trouble once and that kind of trouble can be measured in hundreds of millions, maybe billions.

    I’m guessing from what I’ve read and seen on shows like CNN the kids in Cupertino are high five’n one another.

    Not sure how Zune even got ok’d without securing a .com address. In case you didn’t think that mattered, ask 10 random people – maybe friends and family – to go to the Zune web site.

    I love my Apple products – but I also love my Microsoft stock – and I’m scared by what Redmond is pushing. As for some new path for “choice” that some Redmond fans are proclaiming – I’d simply ask “what about every other MP3 player on the market?” How does Zune offer more choice? It’s just different. And different at this speed isn’t going to raise my MSFT stock price very high.

  40. Rob,

    >Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product).

    That question was worded poorly.

    All eight people today contemplated a switch to Zune and all eight said “sorry, no, iPod wins.”

  41. Rob,

    >Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product).

    That question was worded poorly.

    All eight people today contemplated a switch to Zune and all eight said “sorry, no, iPod wins.”

  42. Rob,

    >Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product).

    That question was worded poorly.

    All eight people today contemplated a switch to Zune and all eight said “sorry, no, iPod wins.”

  43. @20. I’m sure you can get %58% of any population to CONTEMPLATE just about anything if you worded the question properly. What’s your point? CONTEMPLATE doesn’t say they will. I’m sure there would be a certain percentage of women that would CONTEMPLATING moving to Iran knowing they have better govt supported maternity leave than the US.

    First time in a few years Zune is offering us a choice???? Where the hell have you been, dude? How long have MP3 players and on line music services been around? Talking about not getting your news from multiple sources. Sheesh!

  44. @20. I’m sure you can get %58% of any population to CONTEMPLATE just about anything if you worded the question properly. What’s your point? CONTEMPLATE doesn’t say they will. I’m sure there would be a certain percentage of women that would CONTEMPLATING moving to Iran knowing they have better govt supported maternity leave than the US.

    First time in a few years Zune is offering us a choice???? Where the hell have you been, dude? How long have MP3 players and on line music services been around? Talking about not getting your news from multiple sources. Sheesh!

  45. @20. I’m sure you can get %58% of any population to CONTEMPLATE just about anything if you worded the question properly. What’s your point? CONTEMPLATE doesn’t say they will. I’m sure there would be a certain percentage of women that would CONTEMPLATING moving to Iran knowing they have better govt supported maternity leave than the US.

    First time in a few years Zune is offering us a choice???? Where the hell have you been, dude? How long have MP3 players and on line music services been around? Talking about not getting your news from multiple sources. Sheesh!

  46. LayZ – I’m well aware that there have been alternatives (and good ones) for you, and me, and other geeks. But believe it or not, we aren’t the long tail here.

    Gramma can use iTunes with her iPod. Rhapsody on her cell phone or some third party (no Operating System support) MP3 player just is not as easy as Zune or iTunes.

    The integration of the hardware, the store, and the Operating System is the play here. It’s not “just another MP3 player”. It’s a huge play in online music, made by a huge player. And I am arguing that Microsoft can pull it off. Time will tell.

    Rob

  47. LayZ – I’m well aware that there have been alternatives (and good ones) for you, and me, and other geeks. But believe it or not, we aren’t the long tail here.

    Gramma can use iTunes with her iPod. Rhapsody on her cell phone or some third party (no Operating System support) MP3 player just is not as easy as Zune or iTunes.

    The integration of the hardware, the store, and the Operating System is the play here. It’s not “just another MP3 player”. It’s a huge play in online music, made by a huge player. And I am arguing that Microsoft can pull it off. Time will tell.

    Rob

  48. LayZ – I’m well aware that there have been alternatives (and good ones) for you, and me, and other geeks. But believe it or not, we aren’t the long tail here.

    Gramma can use iTunes with her iPod. Rhapsody on her cell phone or some third party (no Operating System support) MP3 player just is not as easy as Zune or iTunes.

    The integration of the hardware, the store, and the Operating System is the play here. It’s not “just another MP3 player”. It’s a huge play in online music, made by a huge player. And I am arguing that Microsoft can pull it off. Time will tell.

    Rob

  49. What’s really genuinely shocking is just how poorly executed the Zune appears to be. The only “good” thing about it appears to be the cardboard box the product is packaged. And well… if that’s the best part of the product…

    The question the guy on CNN (see post 19) asks – “Why don’t they (Microsoft) get some decent design people in?” – is one that I think many people will ask themselves… right before they decide not to bother buying a Zune.

    And then, we see the awful experience that Engadget had installing the software. Not just the bugs, but the fundamental design flaws that contribute to spoiling the OOBE.

    I did my Top 5 reasons why Zune will fail on my blog @

    http://www.psynixis.com/blog/2006/10/26/top-five-reasons-why-zune-will-fail/

    after Robert’s video podcast on the Zune.

  50. What’s really genuinely shocking is just how poorly executed the Zune appears to be. The only “good” thing about it appears to be the cardboard box the product is packaged. And well… if that’s the best part of the product…

    The question the guy on CNN (see post 19) asks – “Why don’t they (Microsoft) get some decent design people in?” – is one that I think many people will ask themselves… right before they decide not to bother buying a Zune.

    And then, we see the awful experience that Engadget had installing the software. Not just the bugs, but the fundamental design flaws that contribute to spoiling the OOBE.

    I did my Top 5 reasons why Zune will fail on my blog @

    http://www.psynixis.com/blog/2006/10/26/top-five-reasons-why-zune-will-fail/

    after Robert’s video podcast on the Zune.

  51. Another funny thing in the CNN video is when the guy (right at the end) says .. “it’s too clunky”.. priceless :)

    The cure little Shuffle upstaged the Zune.

  52. Another funny thing in the CNN video is when the guy (right at the end) says .. “it’s too clunky”.. priceless :)

    The cure little Shuffle upstaged the Zune.

  53. Zune brand is SOCIAL. And Social means that user will be able to collect, discover and share, online or off-line, between Zune to services, Zune to Zune, or Account to Account. To enable this CONNECTION is essential, Zune software are connected via Internet/PC, so a WIFI is a must have for Zune player in order to connect to others Zune, PC, Devices, or other users via Internet.

    Because the hardware is not updateable Wifi have to be build-in with the devices. Remaining question is how those devices will connect to make SOCIAL experience really great. I thing at this step MS is not clear what they will do. But they take evolutionary approach wit minimum start(which Google also uses) roll-out platform first, then try different social usage scenarios so see which usage scenario do users love.

    So MS may try to fight brand war with Apple: Cool, Stylish device vs Social Device.

  54. Zune brand is SOCIAL. And Social means that user will be able to collect, discover and share, online or off-line, between Zune to services, Zune to Zune, or Account to Account. To enable this CONNECTION is essential, Zune software are connected via Internet/PC, so a WIFI is a must have for Zune player in order to connect to others Zune, PC, Devices, or other users via Internet.

    Because the hardware is not updateable Wifi have to be build-in with the devices. Remaining question is how those devices will connect to make SOCIAL experience really great. I thing at this step MS is not clear what they will do. But they take evolutionary approach wit minimum start(which Google also uses) roll-out platform first, then try different social usage scenarios so see which usage scenario do users love.

    So MS may try to fight brand war with Apple: Cool, Stylish device vs Social Device.

  55. Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product). Zune has been talked up for it’s social networking “wireless” features – as recently as this morning on the Today Show. Don’t get all of ytour data from apple.com – they are slightly slanted in their views.

    I can prove that we’re all brains in jars via a poll, so who cares. As well, the social aspect is so crappily implemented:

    1) Even if you create the song yourself and apply NO DRM, when you go to share it, Microsoft “helpfully” applies their stupid 3 days/3 plays DRM.

    2) The music exchange isn’t a guarantee. If the DRM on the song doesn’t allow it, no sharing for you.

    Besides, if you’re flying on 6 different airlines, they’re going to have iPod connectors not Zune connectors. If you’re buying a new car? iPod connectors. The iPod infrastructure is massive, and that is as much a part of the iPod’s success as iTunes. In fact, I’ll say it’s MORE of a reason.

    That and when you look at how you buy songs and the rest, Microsoft still can’t do ease of use worth a crap.

  56. Diego – read the news – recent polls have shown that as many as 58% of CURRENT iPod owners would contemplate a shift to the Zune (or another non-Apple product). Zune has been talked up for it’s social networking “wireless” features – as recently as this morning on the Today Show. Don’t get all of ytour data from apple.com – they are slightly slanted in their views.

    I can prove that we’re all brains in jars via a poll, so who cares. As well, the social aspect is so crappily implemented:

    1) Even if you create the song yourself and apply NO DRM, when you go to share it, Microsoft “helpfully” applies their stupid 3 days/3 plays DRM.

    2) The music exchange isn’t a guarantee. If the DRM on the song doesn’t allow it, no sharing for you.

    Besides, if you’re flying on 6 different airlines, they’re going to have iPod connectors not Zune connectors. If you’re buying a new car? iPod connectors. The iPod infrastructure is massive, and that is as much a part of the iPod’s success as iTunes. In fact, I’ll say it’s MORE of a reason.

    That and when you look at how you buy songs and the rest, Microsoft still can’t do ease of use worth a crap.

  57. A good reason NOT to buy a Zune is the fact that $1 will be going to that SOB at Universal Music who accused all iPod owners of stealing music. What an idiot.

    DD

  58. A good reason NOT to buy a Zune is the fact that $1 will be going to that SOB at Universal Music who accused all iPod owners of stealing music. What an idiot.

    DD

  59. Well – there are a lot of comments from people who do not have the device, but I have one and I can give you my impressions. I have had 2 ipods and I own 6 macs along with my PC’s. I did not think that the Zune would do anything for me, but I must say that I was wrong. I got a brown one and started loading music on it right away. I had no problems with the install, the music sync is so fast from my computer to the device I thought that it was not moving the files. The sound quality is good, and although it is bigger than the ipod, I like the way that it feels in my hands (it always feels like I am going to drop the ipod).
    Now, in terms of video…Scoble, your video from confabb loaded on it without a problem. There was a conversion done in the background and I never had to do a thing. I did not need any other software, and it did not take very long at all… So yes, your videos do indeed work on this device, and that is a first. Your videos do not work on my pocketpc (without 3rd party conversion), they do not work on my blackberry pearl (without 3rd party conversion, so I was very pleased. The zune web site said this would work as long as the movie was not protected.
    The only complaint that I can point to is the fact that the album art does not look very good when it gets large… This is nothing that would cause me not to use the device, but it does not look that great! Overall – I am very pleased with the device!

  60. Well – there are a lot of comments from people who do not have the device, but I have one and I can give you my impressions. I have had 2 ipods and I own 6 macs along with my PC’s. I did not think that the Zune would do anything for me, but I must say that I was wrong. I got a brown one and started loading music on it right away. I had no problems with the install, the music sync is so fast from my computer to the device I thought that it was not moving the files. The sound quality is good, and although it is bigger than the ipod, I like the way that it feels in my hands (it always feels like I am going to drop the ipod).
    Now, in terms of video…Scoble, your video from confabb loaded on it without a problem. There was a conversion done in the background and I never had to do a thing. I did not need any other software, and it did not take very long at all… So yes, your videos do indeed work on this device, and that is a first. Your videos do not work on my pocketpc (without 3rd party conversion), they do not work on my blackberry pearl (without 3rd party conversion, so I was very pleased. The zune web site said this would work as long as the movie was not protected.
    The only complaint that I can point to is the fact that the album art does not look very good when it gets large… This is nothing that would cause me not to use the device, but it does not look that great! Overall – I am very pleased with the device!

  61. Rob La Gesse, as for name calling, you are a Microsoft fan boy. Apple, at least, let’s you use Windows with iTunes, they don’t force Mac OS X on you, precisely because it is superior so they only need to entice you. Microsoft TIES the Zune to Windows and that’s illegal because it is extending a monopoly. But I don’t expect you to understand that…

  62. Rob La Gesse, as for name calling, you are a Microsoft fan boy. Apple, at least, let’s you use Windows with iTunes, they don’t force Mac OS X on you, precisely because it is superior so they only need to entice you. Microsoft TIES the Zune to Windows and that’s illegal because it is extending a monopoly. But I don’t expect you to understand that…

  63. @26. Funny, and while purely anecdotal, my wife who is about as technology ingnorant as the best Luddite, has been using a Zen and PlayForSure and Napster for a few years now.

    And from what I’ve been reading about the “seamless” integration between the Zune, it’s own music store, and the OS, it ranks right up there with the best of an MS 1.0 product..buggy and unstable. That will certainly get Gamma up and running fast.

  64. @26. Funny, and while purely anecdotal, my wife who is about as technology ingnorant as the best Luddite, has been using a Zen and PlayForSure and Napster for a few years now.

    And from what I’ve been reading about the “seamless” integration between the Zune, it’s own music store, and the OS, it ranks right up there with the best of an MS 1.0 product..buggy and unstable. That will certainly get Gamma up and running fast.

  65. @29. But that “Social” community has to be made up of all Zune and Windows users. Don’t have a Zune? Sorry, can’t asSOCIAte with you. Not running Windows? Sorry. Can’t asSOCIAte with you. How “social” is that?

  66. @29. But that “Social” community has to be made up of all Zune and Windows users. Don’t have a Zune? Sorry, can’t asSOCIAte with you. Not running Windows? Sorry. Can’t asSOCIAte with you. How “social” is that?

  67. @29. Don’t underestimate Zune team. They’ve build Xbox360 and more important Xbox Live and community of young men around it. They know how to make a device and how to manage community. Also Soapbox team announced that Zune will be able to download video from Soapbox. And don’t forget that MS have smartphone which grow very fast this year. They can develop a Zune client that run on MS smartphone. And suddenly their potential customer base seems quite strong.

    MS is in weak position now, but not as weak as innitialy seems.

  68. @29. Don’t underestimate Zune team. They’ve build Xbox360 and more important Xbox Live and community of young men around it. They know how to make a device and how to manage community. Also Soapbox team announced that Zune will be able to download video from Soapbox. And don’t forget that MS have smartphone which grow very fast this year. They can develop a Zune client that run on MS smartphone. And suddenly their potential customer base seems quite strong.

    MS is in weak position now, but not as weak as innitialy seems.

  69. @37 Fair point. The advantage that Xbox had was that they were disassociate XBOX with the MS brand. Not sure the Zune team is being as successful in doing that. I realize that the Zune and the XBOX come from the same team. But at the moment there is too much MS branding being associated with the Zune. Seems they would have done well to associate the Zune with the Xbox brand. Possibly.

  70. @37 Fair point. The advantage that Xbox had was that they were disassociate XBOX with the MS brand. Not sure the Zune team is being as successful in doing that. I realize that the Zune and the XBOX come from the same team. But at the moment there is too much MS branding being associated with the Zune. Seems they would have done well to associate the Zune with the Xbox brand. Possibly.

  71. The poll which all MS fanboys are touting never even mentioned the iPod. So when people report that 58% of people would buy a Zune over an iPod, that’s just plain wrong and misleading. It only asked about MP3 players, in the generic sense, nothing to do with iPods.

    As for Microsoft paying UMG blood money. Well, that’s just piss weak on their part. Of course they lick UMG’s ass and then the UMG CEO comes out and calls iPod owners thieves. Of course Baller and the Real boss (who is he, and is Real still around? :P ) called iPod owners thieves as well. What a bunch of knobs! There is nothing different in how people would purchase (or otherwise) their music for the Zune or iPod. Therefore, by these goons definition, Zune owners are also thieves.

    And what is this about the SOCIAL. We’re not deaf, no need to shout in here. As for the social, who gives a SHIT?!? It’s a nice try to find and angle for a device which is clunky, has a terrible user experience as far as the software on the PC goes. Has some lame-ass points crap. Come on people. Dollars and cents! Talk about the usual Microsoft trick of taking something that’s simple and stuffing it up.

  72. The poll which all MS fanboys are touting never even mentioned the iPod. So when people report that 58% of people would buy a Zune over an iPod, that’s just plain wrong and misleading. It only asked about MP3 players, in the generic sense, nothing to do with iPods.

    As for Microsoft paying UMG blood money. Well, that’s just piss weak on their part. Of course they lick UMG’s ass and then the UMG CEO comes out and calls iPod owners thieves. Of course Baller and the Real boss (who is he, and is Real still around? :P ) called iPod owners thieves as well. What a bunch of knobs! There is nothing different in how people would purchase (or otherwise) their music for the Zune or iPod. Therefore, by these goons definition, Zune owners are also thieves.

    And what is this about the SOCIAL. We’re not deaf, no need to shout in here. As for the social, who gives a SHIT?!? It’s a nice try to find and angle for a device which is clunky, has a terrible user experience as far as the software on the PC goes. Has some lame-ass points crap. Come on people. Dollars and cents! Talk about the usual Microsoft trick of taking something that’s simple and stuffing it up.

  73. @41 and yet Windows users can happily use iPods. And this week I learn I can take my iPod on 6 different airlines and listen to it as long as I want, and play videos on the seat back screen. As for the Zune? Well, anyone but Windows users are screwed.

  74. @41 and yet Windows users can happily use iPods. And this week I learn I can take my iPod on 6 different airlines and listen to it as long as I want, and play videos on the seat back screen. As for the Zune? Well, anyone but Windows users are screwed.

  75. @41 and yet Windows users can happily use iPods. And this week I learn I can take my iPod on 6 different airlines and listen to it as long as I want, and play videos on the seat back screen. As for the Zune? Well, anyone but Windows users are screwed.

  76. One observation I will make is that sometimes Apple does miss the point. No question about the usability of ipod. I wouldn’t replace my ipod with Zune. But simply brushing the Wi-Fi and peer-to-peer aspect of Zune with a comment about giving your earbud instead is just lame. Eliminating cables and enabling people to share content (IM, audio and video) instantly will have huge implications on a number of fronts. I can’t imagine why college students would’t grab on to this on campuses. Decentralizing content and removing trackability will have social, economical and legal implications. People want to part of a new phenomenon and peer-to-peer sharing in this fashion on a portable music player is one of those possibilities.

    We tested music sharing on Zune and that was fast and easy. Not sure if ripped music can be shared, not sure if video can be shared, not sure about the IM capability. Should Microsoft do all this? Absolutely. Should Apple do this? Absolutely. And Apple should find a better way to do it. But pleeeeease don’t ask me to share my earbud to do that.

  77. One observation I will make is that sometimes Apple does miss the point. No question about the usability of ipod. I wouldn’t replace my ipod with Zune. But simply brushing the Wi-Fi and peer-to-peer aspect of Zune with a comment about giving your earbud instead is just lame. Eliminating cables and enabling people to share content (IM, audio and video) instantly will have huge implications on a number of fronts. I can’t imagine why college students would’t grab on to this on campuses. Decentralizing content and removing trackability will have social, economical and legal implications. People want to part of a new phenomenon and peer-to-peer sharing in this fashion on a portable music player is one of those possibilities.

    We tested music sharing on Zune and that was fast and easy. Not sure if ripped music can be shared, not sure if video can be shared, not sure about the IM capability. Should Microsoft do all this? Absolutely. Should Apple do this? Absolutely. And Apple should find a better way to do it. But pleeeeease don’t ask me to share my earbud to do that.

  78. Wow.
    You guys spend too much energy on this stuff.
    Just buy whatever you want. Why do you care if someone gets a device that competes with you device of choice? Who cares who gets more sales?
    These are just mp3/video players at the end of the day.

    Do Sony and Panasonic fanboys flame each other over their respective choices of TVs?

  79. Wow.
    You guys spend too much energy on this stuff.
    Just buy whatever you want. Why do you care if someone gets a device that competes with you device of choice? Who cares who gets more sales?
    These are just mp3/video players at the end of the day.

    Do Sony and Panasonic fanboys flame each other over their respective choices of TVs?

  80. [...] Yesterday Scoble stopped by and hung out with us. He brought two brand new Zune portable music players with him – a gadget lover’s dream. In case you missed it, Microsoft started shipping Zune on Nov 14th. You can read one of the press releases here. So there we were with Scoble and two Zunes; one black and one translucent brown (chocolat). Given that we are the gadget search engine, it was natural for Scoble to ask us to play with them and give him our first-hand feedback and we did just that. You can read all about this on Scoble’s blog here. Of course he also interviewed us, did a video shoot of our product demo and captured our whole experience around setting up Zune live. This video should go on his ScobleShow in next few weeks. [...]

  81. Step up an accept your Shallow Person of the Week Award, Brit. You’ve more than earned it.

    It matters what is available in the market place because availability that is forced down people’s throats can limit innovation. That is largely what happened with Microsoft Windows. Though it is not great software, it came to dominate because it was the most available OS, partly because of hardball business practices that resulted in losing an antitrust suit. We would have better operating systems today but for Microsoft. (Apple and Linux are better, but there would be many more if Microsoft had not become a monopoly.)

    In regard to Zune, the issue is whether Microsoft can again gain market share for an inferior product.

    I am embarassed for the persons citing a push-type poll (that Microsoft likely paid) claiming 58 percent of the MP3 users want a Zune. It is easy to see that it is not a real poll because it was done online with self-selected participants, excluding as much 40 percent of Americans who do not have continual access to the Internet. Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, the iPod was not even mentioned as an alternative, so the respondents to this completely unscientific survey were not choosing the Zune over the iPod. Are people like Rob La Gesse not bright enough to know the difference between marketing and science?

    The consensus among tech writers ranging from CNET to Pogue to Mossberg is that the Zune is not ready for prime time. The Microsoft employees posting FUD to blogs like this one cannot circumvent that reality. Adding salt to the wound, initial sales have been paltry, with tech buyers ignoring Zune and lining up for the PS3.

  82. Step up an accept your Shallow Person of the Week Award, Brit. You’ve more than earned it.

    It matters what is available in the market place because availability that is forced down people’s throats can limit innovation. That is largely what happened with Microsoft Windows. Though it is not great software, it came to dominate because it was the most available OS, partly because of hardball business practices that resulted in losing an antitrust suit. We would have better operating systems today but for Microsoft. (Apple and Linux are better, but there would be many more if Microsoft had not become a monopoly.)

    In regard to Zune, the issue is whether Microsoft can again gain market share for an inferior product.

    I am embarassed for the persons citing a push-type poll (that Microsoft likely paid) claiming 58 percent of the MP3 users want a Zune. It is easy to see that it is not a real poll because it was done online with self-selected participants, excluding as much 40 percent of Americans who do not have continual access to the Internet. Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, the iPod was not even mentioned as an alternative, so the respondents to this completely unscientific survey were not choosing the Zune over the iPod. Are people like Rob La Gesse not bright enough to know the difference between marketing and science?

    The consensus among tech writers ranging from CNET to Pogue to Mossberg is that the Zune is not ready for prime time. The Microsoft employees posting FUD to blogs like this one cannot circumvent that reality. Adding salt to the wound, initial sales have been paltry, with tech buyers ignoring Zune and lining up for the PS3.

  83. Step up an accept your Shallow Person of the Week Award, Brit. You’ve more than earned it.

    It matters what is available in the market place because availability that is forced down people’s throats can limit innovation. That is largely what happened with Microsoft Windows. Though it is not great software, it came to dominate because it was the most available OS, partly because of hardball business practices that resulted in losing an antitrust suit. We would have better operating systems today but for Microsoft. (Apple and Linux are better, but there would be many more if Microsoft had not become a monopoly.)

    In regard to Zune, the issue is whether Microsoft can again gain market share for an inferior product.

    I am embarassed for the persons citing a push-type poll (that Microsoft likely paid) claiming 58 percent of the MP3 users want a Zune. It is easy to see that it is not a real poll because it was done online with self-selected participants, excluding as much 40 percent of Americans who do not have continual access to the Internet. Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, the iPod was not even mentioned as an alternative, so the respondents to this completely unscientific survey were not choosing the Zune over the iPod. Are people like Rob La Gesse not bright enough to know the difference between marketing and science?

    The consensus among tech writers ranging from CNET to Pogue to Mossberg is that the Zune is not ready for prime time. The Microsoft employees posting FUD to blogs like this one cannot circumvent that reality. Adding salt to the wound, initial sales have been paltry, with tech buyers ignoring Zune and lining up for the PS3.

  84. Oh My… I have nothing against Microsoft or whatever but what is that damn fuc*ing idea to not put a replaceable battery… Like the iPod certainly.

    I cannot believe that companies, which are looking for good popularity and image nowadays, do not think about the environment… It is like the cell phone maker and mobile phone company… Why replace the battery while you can have a new phone cheaper (or they think so).

    I would dream the battery will live the life time of the device, but with electronic, it is one of the first parts (with hard drive, but well, that one is mechanic too) to fail.

    Sad thing that company like Microsoft didn’t do anything on that side.

  85. Oh My… I have nothing against Microsoft or whatever but what is that damn fuc*ing idea to not put a replaceable battery… Like the iPod certainly.

    I cannot believe that companies, which are looking for good popularity and image nowadays, do not think about the environment… It is like the cell phone maker and mobile phone company… Why replace the battery while you can have a new phone cheaper (or they think so).

    I would dream the battery will live the life time of the device, but with electronic, it is one of the first parts (with hard drive, but well, that one is mechanic too) to fail.

    Sad thing that company like Microsoft didn’t do anything on that side.

  86. I just got a zune for christmas.
    I don’t know how to upload videos on to it.
    I heard you have to purchase and download
    another software.

  87. I just got a zune for christmas.
    I don’t know how to upload videos on to it.
    I heard you have to purchase and download
    another software.

  88. I have purchased both the Zune and the iPOD 30G for Christmas. I have to say that I believe that 58% is a fair number considering the over-all performance of the Zune. If Zune had the same features as the iPOD, Zune could easily compete with iPOD, hands down. But the lack of features is the point that I’m stuck on. I may return the Zune and the iPOD until Microsoft either updates the firmware to include the added features or the next generation is released that will do more.

    I do not like the issues with iPODs harddrive history and the battery life issues that I read about.

    In the Zune, the battery has to be replaceable somehow or Microsoft will most likely face a big lawsuite. $249 for a disposable device is a bit extreme don’t you think? The gadget geeks just have not figured it out yet.

    The Zune is a very good media player that can compete with iPOD but Microsoft MUST add more features, such as the calander, the note pad, and the simple games. I’m still waiting for the firmware update that will allow these added features.

    Danny

  89. I have purchased both the Zune and the iPOD 30G for Christmas. I have to say that I believe that 58% is a fair number considering the over-all performance of the Zune. If Zune had the same features as the iPOD, Zune could easily compete with iPOD, hands down. But the lack of features is the point that I’m stuck on. I may return the Zune and the iPOD until Microsoft either updates the firmware to include the added features or the next generation is released that will do more.

    I do not like the issues with iPODs harddrive history and the battery life issues that I read about.

    In the Zune, the battery has to be replaceable somehow or Microsoft will most likely face a big lawsuite. $249 for a disposable device is a bit extreme don’t you think? The gadget geeks just have not figured it out yet.

    The Zune is a very good media player that can compete with iPOD but Microsoft MUST add more features, such as the calander, the note pad, and the simple games. I’m still waiting for the firmware update that will allow these added features.

    Danny

  90. YOU GUYS SUCK….this zune is a LOT better than those shitty Ipods. but there is some bugs they need to work out with the software….like…LETTING ME CONNECT THE DAMN THING!

  91. YOU GUYS SUCK….this zune is a LOT better than those shitty Ipods. but there is some bugs they need to work out with the software….like…LETTING ME CONNECT THE DAMN THING!