Space Wars start with Chinese killer satellite?

My dad used to build military satellites. One thing they were worried about was if the Russians would start throwing nukes up into space and blowing up stuff. Seriously. They worried about that stuff.

Well, now China has tested a satellite killer. Oh, great, they are gonna take down DirecTV right before the SuperBowl. Funny. Or is it scary? Think about how much of our lives depend on satellites.

Sigh. Anyone smell another trillion dollar military program starting up? I do.

36 thoughts on “Space Wars start with Chinese killer satellite?

  1. silent sub secrets stolen
    ———————————-
    “Authorities believe Chi Mak took documents from his employer and gave them to his brother, who passed them to China’s government.”
    AOL source:
    http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/man-guilty-of-trying-to-send-secrets-to/20070510151009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001#|

    ———————————

    and more?
    ———————————
    “According to the 42-page affidavit, agents combing through the trash at Chi’s residence found a number of documents torn into small pieces.

    One document was machine-printed in China and instructed Chi to “join more [professional] associations and participate in more seminars with special subject matters” and then compile the special conference material on a disk. The document also lists the military technologies that were being sought including:

    Space-based electromagnetic intercept system
    Space-launched magnetic levitational platform
    Electromagnetic artillery system
    Submarine torpedoes
    Electromagnetic launch system
    Aircraft carrier electronic systems
    A second document, hand-printed in Chinese, contained another list of technologies sought:

    Water jet propulsion
    Ship submarine propulsion technology, non-air reliant
    Power system configuration technology, weapons standardization, modularization
    Early warning technologies, command and control systems technology, defense against nuclear attack technology
    Permanent electromagnetic motor, overall solution for shipboard power system
    Shipboard internal and external communications systems
    Establishment of high frequency, self-linking, satellite communications
    Submarine HF transient launch technology
    DDX (next generation destroyer)”
    http://cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Chi_Mak.html
    ———————————

  2. silent sub secrets stolen
    ———————————-
    “Authorities believe Chi Mak took documents from his employer and gave them to his brother, who passed them to China’s government.”
    AOL source:
    http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/man-guilty-of-trying-to-send-secrets-to/20070510151009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001#|

    ———————————

    and more?
    ———————————
    “According to the 42-page affidavit, agents combing through the trash at Chi’s residence found a number of documents torn into small pieces.

    One document was machine-printed in China and instructed Chi to “join more [professional] associations and participate in more seminars with special subject matters” and then compile the special conference material on a disk. The document also lists the military technologies that were being sought including:

    Space-based electromagnetic intercept system
    Space-launched magnetic levitational platform
    Electromagnetic artillery system
    Submarine torpedoes
    Electromagnetic launch system
    Aircraft carrier electronic systems
    A second document, hand-printed in Chinese, contained another list of technologies sought:

    Water jet propulsion
    Ship submarine propulsion technology, non-air reliant
    Power system configuration technology, weapons standardization, modularization
    Early warning technologies, command and control systems technology, defense against nuclear attack technology
    Permanent electromagnetic motor, overall solution for shipboard power system
    Shipboard internal and external communications systems
    Establishment of high frequency, self-linking, satellite communications
    Submarine HF transient launch technology
    DDX (next generation destroyer)”
    http://cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Chi_Mak.html
    ———————————

  3. Thats sad Im suprised yhat that would happen theres alot happening in the world. we dont need that group
    ruining things like that.

  4. Thats sad Im suprised yhat that would happen theres alot happening in the world. we dont need that group
    ruining things like that.

  5. Thats sad Im suprised yhat that would happen theres alot happening in the world. we dont need them ruining things like that.

  6. Thats sad Im suprised yhat that would happen theres alot happening in the world. we dont need them ruining things like that.

  7. See also
    Sentinel & Enterprise
    http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com
    Wednesday, July 12, 2006
    State Department Suffers
    Widespread Computer Break-ins

    “China’s government was considered by experts a chief suspect in computer break-ins at the Defense Department and other U.S. agencies… The Pentagon warned earlier this year that China’s army is emphasizing hacking as an offensive weapon.
    It cited Chinese military exercises in 2005 that included hacking ‘primarily in first strikes against enemy networks.’”

    If the US bars China from spending on conventional weapons such as a navy, China will do the rational thing: China will go shopping for substitutes. This policy will inevitably lead China into dominating the alternative weapons sector for the world. This means high tech: computers, space, and biowarfare. But what is therefore the best US policy towards China, for the US, the World, or China itself? It is unclear.

    In 2050, what is my bet on cheapest space fare? China.

  8. See also
    Sentinel & Enterprise
    http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com
    Wednesday, July 12, 2006
    State Department Suffers
    Widespread Computer Break-ins

    “China’s government was considered by experts a chief suspect in computer break-ins at the Defense Department and other U.S. agencies… The Pentagon warned earlier this year that China’s army is emphasizing hacking as an offensive weapon.
    It cited Chinese military exercises in 2005 that included hacking ‘primarily in first strikes against enemy networks.’”

    If the US bars China from spending on conventional weapons such as a navy, China will do the rational thing: China will go shopping for substitutes. This policy will inevitably lead China into dominating the alternative weapons sector for the world. This means high tech: computers, space, and biowarfare. But what is therefore the best US policy towards China, for the US, the World, or China itself? It is unclear.

    In 2050, what is my bet on cheapest space fare? China.

  9. The Chinese government wants to be number one.
    The amazing growth of the Chinese economy has enabled that nation to purchase new war toys.
    China is not an enemy.
    But it makes strategic sense to keep up with the Joneses. So it will be interesting to see over time, what will come out of China, and how the rest of the world will react, including especially the US.

    China also wants a bigger navy.

    http://www.uscc.gov/researchpapers/translated_articles/2005/05_07_18_Sea_Power_and_Chinas_Development.htm

    It makes one think.

    The Influence of Sea Power Upon History,
    1660-1783, by Alfred Thayer Mahan
    is made available online by the
    Gutenberg Project.

  10. The Chinese government wants to be number one.
    The amazing growth of the Chinese economy has enabled that nation to purchase new war toys.
    China is not an enemy.
    But it makes strategic sense to keep up with the Joneses. So it will be interesting to see over time, what will come out of China, and how the rest of the world will react, including especially the US.

    China also wants a bigger navy.

    http://www.uscc.gov/researchpapers/translated_articles/2005/05_07_18_Sea_Power_and_Chinas_Development.htm

    It makes one think.

    The Influence of Sea Power Upon History,
    1660-1783, by Alfred Thayer Mahan
    is made available online by the
    Gutenberg Project.

  11. The value of Star Wars? Don’t make me laugh. Even if a missile defense system was created that was 99% accurate (which is a huge stretch, considered we’re limited to shooting down targets with homing beacons and not even very accurately at that), the system could be defeated in any number of ways:

    - Swamp it with thousands of missiles. If a hundred get through, that’s enough.

    - Fire thousands of decoy missiles mixed with real ones.

    - Make better missiles. Add stealth technology to evade detection, or armor them to resist the anti-missile system.

    - Put the warhead in a cargo container with a GPS detonator and ship it to the target. What can Brown do for you?

    Spending trillions on a system that is inflexible and designed to defend against one form of attack is as stupid as building up our supply of caltrops in case the Chinese invade on horseback. All it will do is cause the enemy to slightly change their behavior, and all the money spent is wasted.

    No, the true value of Star Wars is and always will be that it channels trillions of dollars into defense spending.

  12. The value of Star Wars? Don’t make me laugh. Even if a missile defense system was created that was 99% accurate (which is a huge stretch, considered we’re limited to shooting down targets with homing beacons and not even very accurately at that), the system could be defeated in any number of ways:

    - Swamp it with thousands of missiles. If a hundred get through, that’s enough.

    - Fire thousands of decoy missiles mixed with real ones.

    - Make better missiles. Add stealth technology to evade detection, or armor them to resist the anti-missile system.

    - Put the warhead in a cargo container with a GPS detonator and ship it to the target. What can Brown do for you?

    Spending trillions on a system that is inflexible and designed to defend against one form of attack is as stupid as building up our supply of caltrops in case the Chinese invade on horseback. All it will do is cause the enemy to slightly change their behavior, and all the money spent is wasted.

    No, the true value of Star Wars is and always will be that it channels trillions of dollars into defense spending.

  13. When you kill a satallite, does it actually come down? If it doesn’t, won’t space be very messing with all the broken stuff floating around?

  14. When you kill a satallite, does it actually come down? If it doesn’t, won’t space be very messing with all the broken stuff floating around?

  15. Yeah typo Robert, I do understand these are satellite killing missles. In fact we did this same type of kill vehicle test on one of our own satellite’s in 1985 and the USSR also did similar testing at the same time.

    Really this is simply China saying “we are now a super power” between their nuclear weapons, expanding economy, military increase, and space program (including a moon program.)

  16. Yeah typo Robert, I do understand these are satellite killing missles. In fact we did this same type of kill vehicle test on one of our own satellite’s in 1985 and the USSR also did similar testing at the same time.

    Really this is simply China saying “we are now a super power” between their nuclear weapons, expanding economy, military increase, and space program (including a moon program.)

  17. Card: of course we do. I already told you my dad was an engineer at Lockheed working on such. But this will be used as an excuse to fund a whole new version.

    Dave: this wasn’t a missile that was shot down. It was a satellite that already was in orbit that was blown up.

  18. Card: of course we do. I already told you my dad was an engineer at Lockheed working on such. But this will be used as an excuse to fund a whole new version.

    Dave: this wasn’t a missile that was shot down. It was a satellite that already was in orbit that was blown up.

  19. Both the USA and Russia (former USSR) have had anti-satellite missles for decades! The only thing is that now China is positioning itself as a new super-power by entering the arms race itself. Folks shooting down missles isn’t anything new, nor would it occur unless a shooting war was about to happen, which God willing it won’t.

  20. Both the USA and Russia (former USSR) have had anti-satellite missles for decades! The only thing is that now China is positioning itself as a new super-power by entering the arms race itself. Folks shooting down missles isn’t anything new, nor would it occur unless a shooting war was about to happen, which God willing it won’t.

  21. lol, yeah I smell another trillion dollar military startup too, convieniently under the control of Haliburton. Funny thing is, and we all know it, the US can already take out the Chinese satellites with our ground, airborne, and space-based anti-satellite weapons. Destroying an incoming missile is hard, but destroying a satellite isn’t… they are VERY vulnerable to heat in particular.

  22. lol, yeah I smell another trillion dollar military startup too, convieniently under the control of Haliburton. Funny thing is, and we all know it, the US can already take out the Chinese satellites with our ground, airborne, and space-based anti-satellite weapons. Destroying an incoming missile is hard, but destroying a satellite isn’t… they are VERY vulnerable to heat in particular.

  23. I was also alarmed when I read that news report yesterday, but a little research put it into perspective.

    The Chinese test was in very low orbit, about 500 miles. GPS and broadcast satellites are in much higher range. China does have booster rockets, but these were not tested.

    The test was also against a weather satellite of well-known orbit. This was not an anti-missile test.

    The main threat seems to be against low-orbit monitoring satellites… could be a tactical threat in any incursion to Taiwan, for instance… any mutual defense planning would now need to accommodate these scenarios too.

    There’s also worry about dangers from space debris, but I’m not sure of the background pollution levels, and how the risks of this manmade pollution compares with natural space debris. (A penny flying at a thousand-mile-per-hour speed can do a lot of damage.)

    If you want to worry about something, then microbe colonization of the food you eat and disruption of your gut’s ecology seems a more probable risk today.

    jd

  24. I was also alarmed when I read that news report yesterday, but a little research put it into perspective.

    The Chinese test was in very low orbit, about 500 miles. GPS and broadcast satellites are in much higher range. China does have booster rockets, but these were not tested.

    The test was also against a weather satellite of well-known orbit. This was not an anti-missile test.

    The main threat seems to be against low-orbit monitoring satellites… could be a tactical threat in any incursion to Taiwan, for instance… any mutual defense planning would now need to accommodate these scenarios too.

    There’s also worry about dangers from space debris, but I’m not sure of the background pollution levels, and how the risks of this manmade pollution compares with natural space debris. (A penny flying at a thousand-mile-per-hour speed can do a lot of damage.)

    If you want to worry about something, then microbe colonization of the food you eat and disruption of your gut’s ecology seems a more probable risk today.

    jd

  25. @Joe… the unmarked black helicopters are circling your house right now.

    @Mr. Scoble… don’t underestimate the ultimate value of programs like Star Wars. I believe it would be pretty easy to show how instrumental that and other military and/or space programs were in development of the internet and other technological advances. Those things have a way of quickly trickling down or intersecting the rest of society.

  26. @Joe… the unmarked black helicopters are circling your house right now.

    @Mr. Scoble… don’t underestimate the ultimate value of programs like Star Wars. I believe it would be pretty easy to show how instrumental that and other military and/or space programs were in development of the internet and other technological advances. Those things have a way of quickly trickling down or intersecting the rest of society.

  27. You know, I was just listening to a podcasted (funny – Firefox’s spell checker lists “podcasted” as a misspelling…) physics lecture where the professor was talking about how all the geostationary orbits are filling up, and there’s this huge competition for the remaining spaces.

    I think the threat here is that as China becomes more economically successful, they’re going to demand their “rightful” access to things like satellite orbit slots, perhaps using a device like this to help their negotiations.

    On the other hand, if I were in the satellite business, I think I’d start looking at ways to make all those other orbits a little more useful. As it is, geosynchronous is pretty useful because “same place it was last time I looked” is an easy place to find a satellite.

    The thing is, all the other orbits are pretty predictable, too — they’re just not constants. So hire a physicist, do some math, load the formula onto a chip, and you can find a whole lot more satellites. There’s an expense issue, too, since your dishes would now have to be motorized to be able to track the satellites.

    But at least you’d be able to build more redundancy by adding more satellites in more orbits. Much harder to take out with an ACME satellite killer.

  28. You know, I was just listening to a podcasted (funny – Firefox’s spell checker lists “podcasted” as a misspelling…) physics lecture where the professor was talking about how all the geostationary orbits are filling up, and there’s this huge competition for the remaining spaces.

    I think the threat here is that as China becomes more economically successful, they’re going to demand their “rightful” access to things like satellite orbit slots, perhaps using a device like this to help their negotiations.

    On the other hand, if I were in the satellite business, I think I’d start looking at ways to make all those other orbits a little more useful. As it is, geosynchronous is pretty useful because “same place it was last time I looked” is an easy place to find a satellite.

    The thing is, all the other orbits are pretty predictable, too — they’re just not constants. So hire a physicist, do some math, load the formula onto a chip, and you can find a whole lot more satellites. There’s an expense issue, too, since your dishes would now have to be motorized to be able to track the satellites.

    But at least you’d be able to build more redundancy by adding more satellites in more orbits. Much harder to take out with an ACME satellite killer.

  29. Yes the out of control military industrial complex, Eisenhower was right ,this would errode our country and threaten our security.

    Robert when you have a country(the U.S.) who’s economy is so dependent on building and creating new weapons of destruction, by the way it’s the most profitable industry in the world,(energy is number 2)
    you can see why there will always be wars to be fought no matter what the state of the world is in.
    If necessary they will create new enemies to keep us moving forward and increasing the spending in this field, outer space will be the next place that they have set their sites on and we’ll go from spending billions to trillions in the next few decades.

    I just wish the rest of the country would finally wake up to this.

  30. Yes the out of control military industrial complex, Eisenhower was right ,this would errode our country and threaten our security.

    Robert when you have a country(the U.S.) who’s economy is so dependent on building and creating new weapons of destruction, by the way it’s the most profitable industry in the world,(energy is number 2)
    you can see why there will always be wars to be fought no matter what the state of the world is in.
    If necessary they will create new enemies to keep us moving forward and increasing the spending in this field, outer space will be the next place that they have set their sites on and we’ll go from spending billions to trillions in the next few decades.

    I just wish the rest of the country would finally wake up to this.

  31. Robert, it sounds like another reason to push video games, to me. I mean, video games are the new wave in indoctrination; and, if kids eat up a new spy-satellite game, then the reality of things like this taking shape in the world won’t seem all that out-of-the-ordinary… It’s a mindset… And, yes, the thought of having “killer satellites” in orbit, put there by ANYONE, is something of which nightmares are made; but, you gotta wonder: Is this just the ticket for “star-wars” to come out of the closet? That would be in line with your question, and a real possibility. It would be just the thing to get the new ‘military machine’ into high gear. It seems that is where the money’s at; and, if “the people” are behind it because they’re afraid, then the stops get pulled out when it comes to spending… Maybe the focus of the next generation of intelsats will carry the capability to selectively undo opponents’ weapons programs on the ground as they’re being developed; and then, we’d be involved in more ‘shock and awe’ than we could ever imagine… And sales of video games would go through the roof…..

  32. Robert, it sounds like another reason to push video games, to me. I mean, video games are the new wave in indoctrination; and, if kids eat up a new spy-satellite game, then the reality of things like this taking shape in the world won’t seem all that out-of-the-ordinary… It’s a mindset… And, yes, the thought of having “killer satellites” in orbit, put there by ANYONE, is something of which nightmares are made; but, you gotta wonder: Is this just the ticket for “star-wars” to come out of the closet? That would be in line with your question, and a real possibility. It would be just the thing to get the new ‘military machine’ into high gear. It seems that is where the money’s at; and, if “the people” are behind it because they’re afraid, then the stops get pulled out when it comes to spending… Maybe the focus of the next generation of intelsats will carry the capability to selectively undo opponents’ weapons programs on the ground as they’re being developed; and then, we’d be involved in more ‘shock and awe’ than we could ever imagine… And sales of video games would go through the roof…..

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