I remember having great discussions about Microsoft vs. Apple back in the 1980s and 1990s. We all survived those years without too many hurt feelings.
So, I thought it’d be fun to do it again in 2007 now that Microsoft is shipping Windows Vista. Yeah, fresh meat for the whole debate! (Or was that just the burritos we were eating?) This presented an interesting opportunity to invite four interesting people over to the house last night who would give me insights from both sides of the aisle. Of course Maryam and I gave them some social lubricant and Tres Amigos’ burritos, and recorded it. We burned through two tapes (almost two hours). One thing that’s a given in our industry: we’ll never tire of talking about Apple vs. Microsoft. Even, when, as Fred Davis points out below, there’s not all that much to talk about (the discussions were a lot more fun back in 1989 when there was a truly huge difference between the two OS’s).
Oh, yeah, my Media Center disconnected six times in two hours (I was playing pictures). Something is wrong with my wifi and I gotta figure it out. Sam enjoyed that a lot. It’s always fun when the other guy’s stuff isn’t working right.
So, who were the players?
Fred Davis. Co-founder of Wired Magazine. Here’s his report of the evening.
Sam Levin. Co-founder of the Stanford Mac user’s group, and the guy who does Cool Mac Picks.
Harry McCracken, Editor in Chief of PC World. Also does PC World’s Techlog. Don’t tell anyone, but he admitted to being a Mac user.
Jeremy Toeman. He used to work at SlingMedia and is very knowledgeable about all sorts of HD video stuff. Here’s his report of the evening.
I’ll get the two hours of video up on January 31st, which is when Vista launches.
Oh, and Loren, if you say my videos are long and boring, I’ll just make them longer and more boring, OK? 
Actually, you can skip right to the end for Maryam’s definitive word. I’ll remind you of that again when we get the videos up.
Greedy Microsoft will make you register every 29 days for for a stupid OS.
I´ve used PCs at work far to long, since 1988 that is. I still use, I´m on a Vista Business since last Monday. It´s a disappointment. At home I and my family use Intel Macs. Today I decided that my design office should migrate to OS X (with a little help from Parallels..). Honestly, I can´t wait.
I´ve used PCs at work far to long, since 1988 that is. I still use, I´m on a Vista Business since last Monday. It´s a disappointment. At home I and my family use Intel Macs. Today I decided that my design office should migrate to OS X (with a little help from Parallels..). Honestly, I can´t wait.
2 hours ?
It only takes 2 seconds for me to say “Get a Mac. End of story”.
2 hours ?
It only takes 2 seconds for me to say “Get a Mac. End of story”.
Are you comparing Vista with Leopard? Because if you aren’t, the comparison is only going to be valid for a few more months.
Are you comparing Vista with Leopard? Because if you aren’t, the comparison is only going to be valid for a few more months.
A few comments up edwardk commented on how much Vista and OSX cost, they are mostly the same price, but Vista costs are not the same in the UK/Europe on the Vista Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista) the US version is $99 upgrade and UK price is £99 convert that to USD you get $193! Almost double the price :/
A few comments up edwardk commented on how much Vista and OSX cost, they are mostly the same price, but Vista costs are not the same in the UK/Europe on the Vista Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista) the US version is $99 upgrade and UK price is £99 convert that to USD you get $193! Almost double the price :/
2 hours will bring you into the realm of “Performance Art” You’ve officially become part of the avant garde movement.
2 hours will bring you into the realm of “Performance Art” You’ve officially become part of the avant garde movement.
Tiger has been out for about one year. Vista is about to pop, and Leopard is not too far behind. So the OS-shoot-out is about the Old vs the New. But It would be cool if you and the gang did a a follow-up (with beer and pizza, natch) and revisited your observations when Vista is few months old and Leopard is out and pouncing. Cheers, and bottoms up!
( PS to the poster who mentioned building your own pc and running lots of free software etc…they had better be using a version of Linux..’cause ain’t no way they gonna do that on the farm with Vista and the fast CPUs it requires … better Ubuntu for all that buddy). PeaCe
Tiger has been out for about one year. Vista is about to pop, and Leopard is not too far behind. So the OS-shoot-out is about the Old vs the New. But It would be cool if you and the gang did a a follow-up (with beer and pizza, natch) and revisited your observations when Vista is few months old and Leopard is out and pouncing. Cheers, and bottoms up!
( PS to the poster who mentioned building your own pc and running lots of free software etc…they had better be using a version of Linux..’cause ain’t no way they gonna do that on the farm with Vista and the fast CPUs it requires … better Ubuntu for all that buddy). PeaCe
Apologies — but i have to announce this link. it’s amusing for one, and it’s pertinent to your groups discussion.
http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/01/27/microsoft-green-with-apple-envy/
cheers
(two blog comment posts and still on my first coffee…gotta get a life)
Apologies — but i have to announce this link. it’s amusing for one, and it’s pertinent to your groups discussion.
http://www.hawkwings.net/2007/01/27/microsoft-green-with-apple-envy/
cheers
(two blog comment posts and still on my first coffee…gotta get a life)
I’m looking forward to the discussion and the release of both Vista and OS 10.5. Anything that ups the ante is good for everybody in the long run and the staff at Cupertino do not have a monopoly on good ideas. However, I remain a Windows skeptic- having seen too many BSOD and bailed out too many Windows users from catastrophic crashes/infections who would be better served on a Mac.
One anecdote is a great illustration. A G3 400mHz iMac I bought back when Clinton was still in the White House is still in use by an aunt I gave it to after I had no more need for it in the house. Running OS9 and now running 10.3x, it has been connected to broadband internet without AV software and has never been infected, nor has it ever crashed or had a Kernel Panic (something I cannot say for my G4 & 5 machines). It’s not a speed demon, but still faithfully works every day at a useable speed and has only had an internal clock battery and the IR mouse replaced. Quite a track record.
The best tool depends upon your needs and for the vast majority of users a modern iBook, Mac mini or Mac Book is all the computer they will ever need. Add a copy of MS Office, usually discounted with the purchase of a new Mac, and you are in business. Serious gamers can buy the console of their choice and have the best of both worlds. A Mac mini and an X-Box 360 would make a nice combo and still not break the bank.
I’m looking forward to the discussion and the release of both Vista and OS 10.5. Anything that ups the ante is good for everybody in the long run and the staff at Cupertino do not have a monopoly on good ideas. However, I remain a Windows skeptic- having seen too many BSOD and bailed out too many Windows users from catastrophic crashes/infections who would be better served on a Mac.
One anecdote is a great illustration. A G3 400mHz iMac I bought back when Clinton was still in the White House is still in use by an aunt I gave it to after I had no more need for it in the house. Running OS9 and now running 10.3x, it has been connected to broadband internet without AV software and has never been infected, nor has it ever crashed or had a Kernel Panic (something I cannot say for my G4 & 5 machines). It’s not a speed demon, but still faithfully works every day at a useable speed and has only had an internal clock battery and the IR mouse replaced. Quite a track record.
The best tool depends upon your needs and for the vast majority of users a modern iBook, Mac mini or Mac Book is all the computer they will ever need. Add a copy of MS Office, usually discounted with the purchase of a new Mac, and you are in business. Serious gamers can buy the console of their choice and have the best of both worlds. A Mac mini and an X-Box 360 would make a nice combo and still not break the bank.
Three comments;
1) Vista still isn’t UNIX
2) I use a Mac at home; XP at work. Vista would have to have HUGE user interaction refinements– and I don’t mean adding eye candy– for me to give MSFT any kudos.
3) “I work in the browser, the OS doesn’t matter so much any more. I use both OS’s because I have to.” You neglect security issues in making this statement. BTW: I hope you are at least using a DECENT browser, like Opera, Safari, or Firefox.
Three comments;
1) Vista still isn’t UNIX
2) I use a Mac at home; XP at work. Vista would have to have HUGE user interaction refinements– and I don’t mean adding eye candy– for me to give MSFT any kudos.
3) “I work in the browser, the OS doesn’t matter so much any more. I use both OS’s because I have to.” You neglect security issues in making this statement. BTW: I hope you are at least using a DECENT browser, like Opera, Safari, or Firefox.
My apologies for this long rant(ish) post.
Tekpooler said:
“Vista Rocks.. havent used the OSXa lot.. but its just too pricey to buy for just its looks (machine)..”
Do you realize how scattered your comment is? You’re blending the hardware platform with the OS environment into one criticizing point that focuses JUST on a superficiality: cosmetics. As you haven’t used “OSXa lot”, let me tell you that those who HAVE used Mac OS X and know of what they speak would care less about the plastic shell of the computer the operating system runs on. I care less — WAY less — about the computer’s look and care WAY more about how efficient, unobtrusive, robust, dependable, durable, logical and clean Mac OS X is… and onwards to the applications that run on it. These are not issues of cosmetics, but aspects that contribute to my flexibility and productivity as an end-user.
Note that these comments of mine do not say “WINDOZE SUKZ”, but rather what IS the value of a different platform… and I’ll let people’s own experiences with any OSes by comparison resonate within themselves…
My experience is that the operating system has a FAR GREATER impact on the end-user than the computer’s specifications. When one moves their mouse around the screen all day, are they wishing for a better graphics card whenever they hit a bluescreen, get served a crash notification, a Trojan gets installed and their PC starts acting as a spam server or DDOS zombie… or even some cursed “Wizard” or puppy dog pops up? No. For some strange reason, most users just accept this “quality of life” on a computer as being “just the way things are”, update their virus definitions and hope for the best (meanwhile, week by week their Registry gets bigger and bigger…). From my perspective, it’s weird — almost Orwellian — how most people out there don’t give their OS a first let alone second thought. Now, I’m not trying to say that hardware doesn’t matter — it does — and Apple’s move to the more energy efficient Intel CPUs was a smart (and BOLD) move, but so many people who fancy themselves as being PC ubergeeks miss this point. Hardware, hardware hardware; that’s all they obsess about. Meanwhile, to paraphrase Clinton, “It’s the computing environment, stupid” that matters. So… who’s more the misguided one? Those self professed PC geeks who miss the crucial point regarding user environment? Or, those who buy boxes because they’re pretty? Well, those who value THE OPERATING SYSTEM that runs on a Mac fit neither of these cases.
And John Ferguson? Don’t hold your breath for Apple to release OS X for any PC. It won’t happen, because Apple derives their income from hardware sales. Also, it would be a difficult, uphill battle to gain sufficient OS marketshare against the deeply ensconced Windows platform, and there would literally have to be a revolution in the enterprise software sector for it to be successful. Apple wouldn’t last long enough to get a large enough OS share that would keep Apple sustainable — regardless of iPod or iPhone (potential) sales. And besides, Apple’s vertical integration is AN ASSET to the platform’s stability. I used to chalk that one up to the PC clone side, but not anymore. Sure, it’s cheaper to build your own PC, but ALL PC companies — Dell, HP, Apple and more — are not catering to that market. In the context of the overall personal computer market (Windows and Mac OS inclusive), this contingent is but a niche of the overall market. Isn’t it? Given this, Apple’s gear has become quite competitive in price against Dell, HP etc… And Apple’s vertical integration allows Apple to optimize the OS to the hardware they choose. Result: way less hassle. Then result of this: more productivity and REAL results for the end user.
Thanks for reading.
My apologies for this long rant(ish) post.
Tekpooler said:
“Vista Rocks.. havent used the OSXa lot.. but its just too pricey to buy for just its looks (machine)..”
Do you realize how scattered your comment is? You’re blending the hardware platform with the OS environment into one criticizing point that focuses JUST on a superficiality: cosmetics. As you haven’t used “OSXa lot”, let me tell you that those who HAVE used Mac OS X and know of what they speak would care less about the plastic shell of the computer the operating system runs on. I care less — WAY less — about the computer’s look and care WAY more about how efficient, unobtrusive, robust, dependable, durable, logical and clean Mac OS X is… and onwards to the applications that run on it. These are not issues of cosmetics, but aspects that contribute to my flexibility and productivity as an end-user.
Note that these comments of mine do not say “WINDOZE SUKZ”, but rather what IS the value of a different platform… and I’ll let people’s own experiences with any OSes by comparison resonate within themselves…
My experience is that the operating system has a FAR GREATER impact on the end-user than the computer’s specifications. When one moves their mouse around the screen all day, are they wishing for a better graphics card whenever they hit a bluescreen, get served a crash notification, a Trojan gets installed and their PC starts acting as a spam server or DDOS zombie… or even some cursed “Wizard” or puppy dog pops up? No. For some strange reason, most users just accept this “quality of life” on a computer as being “just the way things are”, update their virus definitions and hope for the best (meanwhile, week by week their Registry gets bigger and bigger…). From my perspective, it’s weird — almost Orwellian — how most people out there don’t give their OS a first let alone second thought. Now, I’m not trying to say that hardware doesn’t matter — it does — and Apple’s move to the more energy efficient Intel CPUs was a smart (and BOLD) move, but so many people who fancy themselves as being PC ubergeeks miss this point. Hardware, hardware hardware; that’s all they obsess about. Meanwhile, to paraphrase Clinton, “It’s the computing environment, stupid” that matters. So… who’s more the misguided one? Those self professed PC geeks who miss the crucial point regarding user environment? Or, those who buy boxes because they’re pretty? Well, those who value THE OPERATING SYSTEM that runs on a Mac fit neither of these cases.
And John Ferguson? Don’t hold your breath for Apple to release OS X for any PC. It won’t happen, because Apple derives their income from hardware sales. Also, it would be a difficult, uphill battle to gain sufficient OS marketshare against the deeply ensconced Windows platform, and there would literally have to be a revolution in the enterprise software sector for it to be successful. Apple wouldn’t last long enough to get a large enough OS share that would keep Apple sustainable — regardless of iPod or iPhone (potential) sales. And besides, Apple’s vertical integration is AN ASSET to the platform’s stability. I used to chalk that one up to the PC clone side, but not anymore. Sure, it’s cheaper to build your own PC, but ALL PC companies — Dell, HP, Apple and more — are not catering to that market. In the context of the overall personal computer market (Windows and Mac OS inclusive), this contingent is but a niche of the overall market. Isn’t it? Given this, Apple’s gear has become quite competitive in price against Dell, HP etc… And Apple’s vertical integration allows Apple to optimize the OS to the hardware they choose. Result: way less hassle. Then result of this: more productivity and REAL results for the end user.
Thanks for reading.
During my writing of my ridiculously long post, Tom B posted. His second point speaks succinctly to the point of my post. And his first point cannot be ignored. To borrow from Tekpooler, UNIX ROCKS. This fact must be “dealt with”
During my writing of my ridiculously long post, Tom B posted. His second point speaks succinctly to the point of my post. And his first point cannot be ignored. To borrow from Tekpooler, UNIX ROCKS. This fact must be “dealt with”
re: 22
History note. Microsoft Word and Excel were on the Mac 1st. They were commisioned by Apple for the 1st Mac. Microsoft decided to turn them into a office suite to run on Windows later on.
Also the Mac is more expsensive doesn’t hold water anymore. Go to Dell.com and do a comparative price spec… you’ll be surprised. On top of that I believe PCWorld (or one such major Windows rag) rated the Macbook Pro’s as the best Laptops of 2006.
re: 22
History note. Microsoft Word and Excel were on the Mac 1st. They were commisioned by Apple for the 1st Mac. Microsoft decided to turn them into a office suite to run on Windows later on.
Also the Mac is more expsensive doesn’t hold water anymore. Go to Dell.com and do a comparative price spec… you’ll be surprised. On top of that I believe PCWorld (or one such major Windows rag) rated the Macbook Pro’s as the best Laptops of 2006.
Leopard came up in the conversations many times. So, don’t worry that the conversation was slanted toward Vista.
Leopard came up in the conversations many times. So, don’t worry that the conversation was slanted toward Vista.
We’ll get the videos out on the 30th.
We’ll get the videos out on the 30th.
I made my girlfriend buy a powerbook last year. It has been with the geniuses longer than it has been with her. This time its almost 2 weeks. The customer rep takes a look at the record and says “Oh! its only 9 days. You are still in the queue.”.
Till Apple gets its stuff back together. I am not getting another Apple product.
Apple has to keep parts in stock and the geniuses have to be more intelligent.
And Pete, Macs are way costlier than other laptops.
An HP laptop that a friend of mine bought from costco for $945: Core2Duo(i forgot the specs), 2GB RAM, 256mb Nvidia GEforce (128mb shared), 120GB Harddrive, 8CellBattery, Webcam inbuilt, etc. This was bought 3 weeks ago.
I don’t care about the higher prices coz the macs look good and OSX I like – but the service sucks big time.
I made my girlfriend buy a powerbook last year. It has been with the geniuses longer than it has been with her. This time its almost 2 weeks. The customer rep takes a look at the record and says “Oh! its only 9 days. You are still in the queue.”.
Till Apple gets its stuff back together. I am not getting another Apple product.
Apple has to keep parts in stock and the geniuses have to be more intelligent.
And Pete, Macs are way costlier than other laptops.
An HP laptop that a friend of mine bought from costco for $945: Core2Duo(i forgot the specs), 2GB RAM, 256mb Nvidia GEforce (128mb shared), 120GB Harddrive, 8CellBattery, Webcam inbuilt, etc. This was bought 3 weeks ago.
I don’t care about the higher prices coz the macs look good and OSX I like – but the service sucks big time.
I like ice cream.
I like ice cream.
No such thing as a definitive opinion.
There is such a thing as acting upon your own opinion and screw everyone else.
Deeds, not words.
No such thing as a definitive opinion.
There is such a thing as acting upon your own opinion and screw everyone else.
Deeds, not words.
Two hours, that’s too long even if the discussion was very interesting. Also, how about a small preview or trailer before launching this on the 30/31? What’s the official date again?
Two hours, that’s too long even if the discussion was very interesting. Also, how about a small preview or trailer before launching this on the 30/31? What’s the official date again?
Ed: unfortunately I don’t have the editing resources to do a preview. The preview is our text blogs.
I agree that it’s long. But I’ll try to point out the interesting parts.
Before it is mentioned that Apple does not offer bottom basement priced PCs, let me make it clear that Apple has no desire to enter that market due to the razor then margins. There really is no advantagge to being there from a business standpoint. Apple released the Mac Mini and that is as close to the bargain PC as they are likely to get.
Apple will let Dell, HP and the others fight over cutting cost and lowering prices while Apple just makes better computers with a killer OS.
Apple is competitive in the markets they want to compete in, like the mid-to-high end. Configure a Dell like a MacPro and it is more expensive than the Mac. Apple includes in their default configurations what Dell, etc leaves out to cut costs.
Ed: unfortunately I don’t have the editing resources to do a preview. The preview is our text blogs.
I agree that it’s long. But I’ll try to point out the interesting parts.
Before it is mentioned that Apple does not offer bottom basement priced PCs, let me make it clear that Apple has no desire to enter that market due to the razor then margins. There really is no advantagge to being there from a business standpoint. Apple released the Mac Mini and that is as close to the bargain PC as they are likely to get.
Apple will let Dell, HP and the others fight over cutting cost and lowering prices while Apple just makes better computers with a killer OS.
Apple is competitive in the markets they want to compete in, like the mid-to-high end. Configure a Dell like a MacPro and it is more expensive than the Mac. Apple includes in their default configurations what Dell, etc leaves out to cut costs.
As a long time Macintosh user (22 years and counting), I wish Vista well. Why? Because it puts to rest another bit of Microsoft FUD. Ever since MS-Dos, Microsoft and its pet columnists would play the same game. They would spend years of effort advertising that whatever benefits the Macintosh had were worthless– right up to the time that Microsoft put out its own version of the same thing.
This isn’t to say that Apple hasn’t screwed up at times: the whole Pink, Taligent era was embarrassing. But, Apple has a winner with Mac OSX. Meanwhile, Microsoft and its sycophants were discounting Mac OSX as eye-candy.
Areo Vista has eye-candy of its own now, so Microsoft can drop that bit of FUD. You will also notice that to use Areo Vista, you need a machine that is at least two to three times as powerful as to run Windows XP. This means that only upper end PC’s sold in the last two years qualify. But, the junky PC’s older than that have probably been thrown away. What this means is that, all this time, Apple computers needed to be twice as powerful to run Mac OSX. Eye-candy uses up computing cycles. We Mac users don’t mind that; the Areo Vista users won’t either. Eye-candy is nice.
I don’t mean to disparage the PC’s; many people are happy enough with them. I wish them well. All I’m saying is that, every time Microsoft catches up to Apple, some disinformation vanishes.
Now, if we could only get PC users to recognize that Apple doesn’t make low end, throw away, junky PC’s and starts comparing them to mid range computers from Dell or HP. If they did compare correctly, then the PC users would know that Apple Mac’s are comparable in price or lower. And why shouldn’t they cost the same? All these computers are built in the same Chinese factories that build Dells or HP’s. They use most of the same components. So, the hardware question, among mid range computers, becomes irrelevant.
Those of you who build their own computers from parts, and bragging about their savings, are ignoring the time it takes you to research, build, get them working and maintain them. How much is your time worth? Most Macintosh users have pay grades above $20 an hour, so it’s not worth it to us to build one. It would cost us above two thousand dollars in time to get even near the quality of a Mac. And the Mac’s cost less than that.
As a long time Macintosh user (22 years and counting), I wish Vista well. Why? Because it puts to rest another bit of Microsoft FUD. Ever since MS-Dos, Microsoft and its pet columnists would play the same game. They would spend years of effort advertising that whatever benefits the Macintosh had were worthless– right up to the time that Microsoft put out its own version of the same thing.
This isn’t to say that Apple hasn’t screwed up at times: the whole Pink, Taligent era was embarrassing. But, Apple has a winner with Mac OSX. Meanwhile, Microsoft and its sycophants were discounting Mac OSX as eye-candy.
Areo Vista has eye-candy of its own now, so Microsoft can drop that bit of FUD. You will also notice that to use Areo Vista, you need a machine that is at least two to three times as powerful as to run Windows XP. This means that only upper end PC’s sold in the last two years qualify. But, the junky PC’s older than that have probably been thrown away. What this means is that, all this time, Apple computers needed to be twice as powerful to run Mac OSX. Eye-candy uses up computing cycles. We Mac users don’t mind that; the Areo Vista users won’t either. Eye-candy is nice.
I don’t mean to disparage the PC’s; many people are happy enough with them. I wish them well. All I’m saying is that, every time Microsoft catches up to Apple, some disinformation vanishes.
Now, if we could only get PC users to recognize that Apple doesn’t make low end, throw away, junky PC’s and starts comparing them to mid range computers from Dell or HP. If they did compare correctly, then the PC users would know that Apple Mac’s are comparable in price or lower. And why shouldn’t they cost the same? All these computers are built in the same Chinese factories that build Dells or HP’s. They use most of the same components. So, the hardware question, among mid range computers, becomes irrelevant.
Those of you who build their own computers from parts, and bragging about their savings, are ignoring the time it takes you to research, build, get them working and maintain them. How much is your time worth? Most Macintosh users have pay grades above $20 an hour, so it’s not worth it to us to build one. It would cost us above two thousand dollars in time to get even near the quality of a Mac. And the Mac’s cost less than that.
Not true loganson. The HP I wrote about is almost equal in specs to the $2499 15″ macbook pro except for stuff like backlit keyboard, etc (and of course the looks
)
The HP was for $949 from costco. Even if you add a $50 costco membership to it its cheaper.
Not true loganson. The HP I wrote about is almost equal in specs to the $2499 15″ macbook pro except for stuff like backlit keyboard, etc (and of course the looks
)
The HP was for $949 from costco. Even if you add a $50 costco membership to it its cheaper.
Robert, use one of the Macs (iLife). Just cut and patch a couple of clips.
Pete says:
> History note. Microsoft Word and Excel
> were on the Mac 1st. They were commisioned
> by Apple for the 1st Mac.
Actually, Word was out for DOS first — and it had windows and you could get it bundled with a mouse even before the Mac came out. Microsoft also had a spreadsheet called MultiPlan, which got trounced by Lotus 1-2-3.
The Mac was the first to have graphical versions of Word and Excel, though I’m not sure “commissioned” is the right word. The Mac was also first to have the Office bundle.
> Also the Mac is more expsensive doesn’t
> hold water anymore. Go to Dell.com and do a
> comparative price spec… you’ll be surprised.
Dell sells millions, possibly tens of millions, of PCs that are *much* cheaper than Macs. As a matter of fact, it always has.
I suspect the average differential is even larger for the 95% of the world’s population who don’t live in the US. Could someone pop down to the Apple store in Kabul and see how an iMac compares with the cost of a locally-assembled PC?
Robert, use one of the Macs (iLife). Just cut and patch a couple of clips.
Pete says:
> History note. Microsoft Word and Excel
> were on the Mac 1st. They were commisioned
> by Apple for the 1st Mac.
Actually, Word was out for DOS first — and it had windows and you could get it bundled with a mouse even before the Mac came out. Microsoft also had a spreadsheet called MultiPlan, which got trounced by Lotus 1-2-3.
The Mac was the first to have graphical versions of Word and Excel, though I’m not sure “commissioned” is the right word. The Mac was also first to have the Office bundle.
> Also the Mac is more expsensive doesn’t
> hold water anymore. Go to Dell.com and do a
> comparative price spec… you’ll be surprised.
Dell sells millions, possibly tens of millions, of PCs that are *much* cheaper than Macs. As a matter of fact, it always has.
I suspect the average differential is even larger for the 95% of the world’s population who don’t live in the US. Could someone pop down to the Apple store in Kabul and see how an iMac compares with the cost of a locally-assembled PC?
Nowadays the Windows laptops come with inbuilt webcams and smaller remote controls with 4 to 6 buttons. Their implementation come no where close to Apples.
But I could buy two of those laptops for an Apple’s price. That way I’ll have a backup laptop each time it goes for repair.