Windows Vista vs. Mac OSX, the two-hour definitive word

I remember having great discussions about Microsoft vs. Apple back in the 1980s and 1990s. We all survived those years without too many hurt feelings.

So, I thought it’d be fun to do it again in 2007 now that Microsoft is shipping Windows Vista. Yeah, fresh meat for the whole debate! (Or was that just the burritos we were eating?) This presented an interesting opportunity to invite four interesting people over to the house last night who would give me insights from both sides of the aisle. Of course Maryam and I gave them some social lubricant and Tres Amigos’ burritos, and recorded it. We burned through two tapes (almost two hours). One thing that’s a given in our industry: we’ll never tire of talking about Apple vs. Microsoft. Even, when, as Fred Davis points out below, there’s not all that much to talk about (the discussions were a lot more fun back in 1989 when there was a truly huge difference between the two OS’s).

Oh, yeah, my Media Center disconnected six times in two hours (I was playing pictures). Something is wrong with my wifi and I gotta figure it out. Sam enjoyed that a lot. It’s always fun when the other guy’s stuff isn’t working right.

So, who were the players?

Fred Davis. Co-founder of Wired Magazine. Here’s his report of the evening.
Sam Levin. Co-founder of the Stanford Mac user’s group, and the guy who does Cool Mac Picks.
Harry McCracken, Editor in Chief of PC World. Also does PC World’s Techlog. Don’t tell anyone, but he admitted to being a Mac user.
Jeremy Toeman. He used to work at SlingMedia and is very knowledgeable about all sorts of HD video stuff. Here’s his report of the evening.

I’ll get the two hours of video up on January 31st, which is when Vista launches.

Oh, and Loren, if you say my videos are long and boring, I’ll just make them longer and more boring, OK? :-)

Actually, you can skip right to the end for Maryam’s definitive word. I’ll remind you of that again when we get the videos up.

220 thoughts on “Windows Vista vs. Mac OSX, the two-hour definitive word

  1. Ok, Windows Vista already has over 144000 viruses out there, you’d end up paying $2000.00 (USD) or more on a windows Vista computer with an Anti-virus & etc. than you’d have to pay for it to be repaired. the only thing us MAC users have to worry about is hardware problems that RARELY occur, I have a iBook (G3) original with 300MHz running mac os x 10.3.9 (or panther) and it runs smoothly, try to run windows ME on that and do you know what you have? A 3 hour log in. Mac’s iLife is $180.00 (USD) with 5 programs. iMovie, iDvd, iPhoto, GarageBand, iWeb, Quicktime Pro and iTunes. macs are $1200.00 (USD) and come with iLife. so how much are you garbage users paying for your crap bucket to be tuned for vista?

  2. Ok, Windows Vista already has over 144000 viruses out there, you’d end up paying $2000.00 (USD) or more on a windows Vista computer with an Anti-virus & etc. than you’d have to pay for it to be repaired. the only thing us MAC users have to worry about is hardware problems that RARELY occur, I have a iBook (G3) original with 300MHz running mac os x 10.3.9 (or panther) and it runs smoothly, try to run windows ME on that and do you know what you have? A 3 hour log in. Mac’s iLife is $180.00 (USD) with 5 programs. iMovie, iDvd, iPhoto, GarageBand, iWeb, Quicktime Pro and iTunes. macs are $1200.00 (USD) and come with iLife. so how much are you garbage users paying for your crap bucket to be tuned for vista?

  3. It’s not that the greater majority prefers windows, its only that MS has a huge budget in which to brainwash idiots into buying them, if you had a true vote and preferences, the greater majority would choose MAC every time, also cheap computers = cheap price so the fake marketing leads the cows into buying the crap. People would prefer stability over price but often price winds out, so its not that people prefer it, they are being brainwashed same goes for local businesses they only consider price bottom line not quality. 1 good mac is better than 10 pcs anyday of the week. You won’t find a better tool than the mac, i predict the future, mac’s will be in the lead while windows will be yesterdays junk pile

  4. It’s not that the greater majority prefers windows, its only that MS has a huge budget in which to brainwash idiots into buying them, if you had a true vote and preferences, the greater majority would choose MAC every time, also cheap computers = cheap price so the fake marketing leads the cows into buying the crap. People would prefer stability over price but often price winds out, so its not that people prefer it, they are being brainwashed same goes for local businesses they only consider price bottom line not quality. 1 good mac is better than 10 pcs anyday of the week. You won’t find a better tool than the mac, i predict the future, mac’s will be in the lead while windows will be yesterdays junk pile

  5. The bottom line is that the greater majority prefers Windows than MAC. That is proven by how many windows os are sold worldwide compared to MAC OS.

    Operating Systems are tools not a video games or an artworks.

  6. The bottom line is that the greater majority prefers Windows than MAC. That is proven by how many windows os are sold worldwide compared to MAC OS.

    Operating Systems are tools not a video games or an artworks.

  7. reading all these comments not really helping me to choose mac or vista.
    i’m thinking about buying a notebook either macbook or toshiba satellite which runs on windows.
    i’m just a student though with tight budget and surrounded by friends using windows.
    i never use mac before and i afraid that some of the software i’m been using flash, sound forge ect cannot be use in mac.

  8. reading all these comments not really helping me to choose mac or vista.
    i’m thinking about buying a notebook either macbook or toshiba satellite which runs on windows.
    i’m just a student though with tight budget and surrounded by friends using windows.
    i never use mac before and i afraid that some of the software i’m been using flash, sound forge ect cannot be use in mac.

  9. I go for pc’s. a world without pc’s is impossible right now. a world without macs would be a little bit less art and a few missing good advertisements.

  10. I go for pc’s. a world without pc’s is impossible right now. a world without macs would be a little bit less art and a few missing good advertisements.

  11. I think it is great that everyone has a choice these days on what OS system that they want to run. I finally made the switch to a Mac a month ago because I was just completely tired of the whole microsoft experience it was out of control like an over grown garden.

    Gone were the good old days of the Amiga 500, or so I thought. Thank you Apple you have made computing fun once again.

    Once you go Mac, you won’t go back!

  12. I think it is great that everyone has a choice these days on what OS system that they want to run. I finally made the switch to a Mac a month ago because I was just completely tired of the whole microsoft experience it was out of control like an over grown garden.

    Gone were the good old days of the Amiga 500, or so I thought. Thank you Apple you have made computing fun once again.

    Once you go Mac, you won’t go back!

  13. I’ll only test out the MAC OS if it’s able to run on Dell or HP computers since those are the ones most people I know own as well as myself.

  14. I’ll only test out the MAC OS if it’s able to run on Dell or HP computers since those are the ones most people I know own as well as myself.

  15. As far as the MAC os X vs the windows vista or any other windows os there are pros and cons to both such as MAC OSx is better for editing photos and videos as well as building web sites. Basically MAC is good for multimedia editing whereas microsoft is better for gamers as well as just the average computer user.
    So, i dont really support either one persay but do some research before you impulse buy and get what you need.

  16. As far as the MAC os X vs the windows vista or any other windows os there are pros and cons to both such as MAC OSx is better for editing photos and videos as well as building web sites. Basically MAC is good for multimedia editing whereas microsoft is better for gamers as well as just the average computer user.
    So, i dont really support either one persay but do some research before you impulse buy and get what you need.

  17. Seriously, I’ve already had training on Vista, and it looks all fancy, shiny and nice and so, but seriously. Max OSX is as all Mac OS slow and recourse demanding. The so called multitasking is a joke, and still using only one mouse button ? well If your first going to use a mouse, then you should at least be able to have more than one button. only having one button doesn’t simplify, it just irritates. ANd for wondows Vista, fancy enough but I’m tired of Microsoft’s unstable crap . The Multitasking sucks. Ither you have to spend a fortune on your computer for it to work halfway decent, of you are sitting and tapping on the table, waiting for the machine to finish it’s tasks. There are alternatives out there such as Linux, but Linux systems work too much like the OSX. I still miss the days of my tidy Old amiga, when I could be rendering a scene from Babylon 5 using lightwave, at the same time as I was playing my MP3′s and editing a document in wordworth, without having any lagging of the computer or having to wait for the computer to finish off it’s job before I could go on with my job. and oh, yes i could forget to add the last name to a file, and the system would still open the file in the correct program, because the file header told the system what type of file it was, not a stupid three didigt last name. and as far as usability goes. I miss being able to change the language the operating system uses in a blink of an eye for my norwegian friends when they are visiting. and choosing the visual effects on the OS by installing third party software. Vista and OSX are still the same old shit as these two companies have pushed out the past decade and a half. the only thing different is the amount of recourses they require, and a lot of fancy visual effects.

  18. Seriously, I’ve already had training on Vista, and it looks all fancy, shiny and nice and so, but seriously. Max OSX is as all Mac OS slow and recourse demanding. The so called multitasking is a joke, and still using only one mouse button ? well If your first going to use a mouse, then you should at least be able to have more than one button. only having one button doesn’t simplify, it just irritates. ANd for wondows Vista, fancy enough but I’m tired of Microsoft’s unstable crap . The Multitasking sucks. Ither you have to spend a fortune on your computer for it to work halfway decent, of you are sitting and tapping on the table, waiting for the machine to finish it’s tasks. There are alternatives out there such as Linux, but Linux systems work too much like the OSX. I still miss the days of my tidy Old amiga, when I could be rendering a scene from Babylon 5 using lightwave, at the same time as I was playing my MP3′s and editing a document in wordworth, without having any lagging of the computer or having to wait for the computer to finish off it’s job before I could go on with my job. and oh, yes i could forget to add the last name to a file, and the system would still open the file in the correct program, because the file header told the system what type of file it was, not a stupid three didigt last name. and as far as usability goes. I miss being able to change the language the operating system uses in a blink of an eye for my norwegian friends when they are visiting. and choosing the visual effects on the OS by installing third party software. Vista and OSX are still the same old shit as these two companies have pushed out the past decade and a half. the only thing different is the amount of recourses they require, and a lot of fancy visual effects.

  19. Here’s the strengths of each OS summed up in less than 2 hours:
    Windows = Wow! Rockin’ games!
    Mac OS = Everything else

    I just saved all of you two hours of your life you will never get back.

    and in regards to this: “the discussions were a lot more fun back in 1989 when there was a truly huge difference between the two OS’s”

    You mean before Microsoft moved their spies….errr… R&D department to Cupertino.

    If you want to see what Windows is going to be doing in 5 years, just watch what Apple is doing today.

    Looking forward to your comparison of Leopard to Vista…. here’s my predicted results of each OS’s strengths:
    Vista = Wow! Rockin’ Games!
    Leopard = Everything else

  20. Here’s the strengths of each OS summed up in less than 2 hours:
    Windows = Wow! Rockin’ games!
    Mac OS = Everything else

    I just saved all of you two hours of your life you will never get back.

    and in regards to this: “the discussions were a lot more fun back in 1989 when there was a truly huge difference between the two OS’s”

    You mean before Microsoft moved their spies….errr… R&D department to Cupertino.

    If you want to see what Windows is going to be doing in 5 years, just watch what Apple is doing today.

    Looking forward to your comparison of Leopard to Vista…. here’s my predicted results of each OS’s strengths:
    Vista = Wow! Rockin’ Games!
    Leopard = Everything else

  21. Pingback: Apple osxWeblog
  22. People want what works. Please also want choices.

    What medium to large enterprise business do you know of uses Mac on their desktop environment?

    How many enterprises use Macs on the back end (servers for databases, printers, files, etc…)?

    Take a look at Netcraft and review the trends. Microsoft is on the rise for the enterprise servers while Linux is on a steep decline. We all know that in the desktop world, the only functional choice is Microsoft, Mac does not like to play, and Linux, well it has and never will be a player.

    Businesses want what works, they want interoperability, and they want a structure and framework that they can build around. With Microsoft products you can at least upgrade them. Try upgrading Linux platforms sometime, it ain’t so easy. Not only that, try repairing some sort of corrupt file or directory in Linux.

    Where did Mac go in this discussion?

    Yes, it was relegated to the category of, “It is pretty to look at”.

    In truth Vista will cost a little more, or a lot more, depending on your intentions. Upgrading as pointed out earlier is not expensive. Micorosoft released their last OS in 2001, six years ago folks, so what is the problem here as far as upgrades goes?

    So the last OS (XP) was six years ago, though Longhorn (server 2007) will be out next year, at least the current sea of software is nearly 100% compatible with Vista. On the negative side of things as relating to Microsoft, we all know that Microsoft has a bad habit of releasing software too soon, using the public as beta testers essentially.

    But in the case of Vista, Microsoft has hired hackers (or would crackers be more appropriate in this case?) to attempt to find problems. Their beta testing was more wide spread than anything we have ever seen.

    All this talk about spying on us, using IE7 (which I refuse to use I must confess as I think FF is a superior browser) and being spied on, that is hog wash. You don’t think Apple can do the same friggen thing with their stupid i-this and i-that (Mac platform based software)? You don’t think Steve Jobs knows what you had for dinner?

    C’mon you Mac “fan-people”, being politically correct since most Mac lovers are friggen libs anyway, open your eyes, get out of SF or Seattle for a while, check out the real world.

    Those that assume Microsoft tracks what “YOU” do, and where “YOU” go on the internet are likely in need of medication. It is no different that Google tracking where you go and what you view, which they do right now! Can you imagine the field day attorneys would have if Microsoft was violating ANY laws with regards to privacy and confidentiality? Please…

    We want solutions that simply work. Is Mac OSX better? Depends on what better is. I want choices and I want flexibility, two things that are severely limited in the Mac world today, and infinitely ascent in the desktop Linux world. I say that it is good that Mac is out there on the fringe, and that Linux wants to be viewed as more than a bastard child to Mac and Windows (since its desktops try to copy Windows) because it could potentially pose a threat to Microsoft, and that is good for the consumer.

  23. People want what works. Please also want choices.

    What medium to large enterprise business do you know of uses Mac on their desktop environment?

    How many enterprises use Macs on the back end (servers for databases, printers, files, etc…)?

    Take a look at Netcraft and review the trends. Microsoft is on the rise for the enterprise servers while Linux is on a steep decline. We all know that in the desktop world, the only functional choice is Microsoft, Mac does not like to play, and Linux, well it has and never will be a player.

    Businesses want what works, they want interoperability, and they want a structure and framework that they can build around. With Microsoft products you can at least upgrade them. Try upgrading Linux platforms sometime, it ain’t so easy. Not only that, try repairing some sort of corrupt file or directory in Linux.

    Where did Mac go in this discussion?

    Yes, it was relegated to the category of, “It is pretty to look at”.

    In truth Vista will cost a little more, or a lot more, depending on your intentions. Upgrading as pointed out earlier is not expensive. Micorosoft released their last OS in 2001, six years ago folks, so what is the problem here as far as upgrades goes?

    So the last OS (XP) was six years ago, though Longhorn (server 2007) will be out next year, at least the current sea of software is nearly 100% compatible with Vista. On the negative side of things as relating to Microsoft, we all know that Microsoft has a bad habit of releasing software too soon, using the public as beta testers essentially.

    But in the case of Vista, Microsoft has hired hackers (or would crackers be more appropriate in this case?) to attempt to find problems. Their beta testing was more wide spread than anything we have ever seen.

    All this talk about spying on us, using IE7 (which I refuse to use I must confess as I think FF is a superior browser) and being spied on, that is hog wash. You don’t think Apple can do the same friggen thing with their stupid i-this and i-that (Mac platform based software)? You don’t think Steve Jobs knows what you had for dinner?

    C’mon you Mac “fan-people”, being politically correct since most Mac lovers are friggen libs anyway, open your eyes, get out of SF or Seattle for a while, check out the real world.

    Those that assume Microsoft tracks what “YOU” do, and where “YOU” go on the internet are likely in need of medication. It is no different that Google tracking where you go and what you view, which they do right now! Can you imagine the field day attorneys would have if Microsoft was violating ANY laws with regards to privacy and confidentiality? Please…

    We want solutions that simply work. Is Mac OSX better? Depends on what better is. I want choices and I want flexibility, two things that are severely limited in the Mac world today, and infinitely ascent in the desktop Linux world. I say that it is good that Mac is out there on the fringe, and that Linux wants to be viewed as more than a bastard child to Mac and Windows (since its desktops try to copy Windows) because it could potentially pose a threat to Microsoft, and that is good for the consumer.

  24. 1. Using (abusing) monopoly power as sole possessor of Mac Hardware specs to kill off the Mac clone market, which was providing better Mac computers than Apple at lower prices.

    How so? I know MS hasn’t abused it monopoly power in any way. Apple is not a monopoly…look the word up. No more than sony for it’s play station or MS’s XBOX.

    2. Using monopoly power as sole provider of the Universal Binary specs to force competing IDE makers out of the market. This forced the big Mac devs like Adobe and Microsoft to abandon Metrowerks and move all development to Apple’s XCode, which is inferior.

    Why is it inferior? Because you say so?

    3. Portraying iPhone as the second coming, only to have it revealed by more rational analysis that it ain’t all that.

    It hasn’t even hit the market. How exactly do you know? Again talking out of your ass.

    4. Jobs OK’ing backdating of stock options (after he first denied knowing about them, then denied OK’ing them), and have his lackies falsify that this had been OK’ed by a Board meeting that never really took place. And Jobs, realizing that he might get caught, relinquished the options, but had them replaced with grants, which were again, backdated to increase his profit.

    Again you know everything that happened. We’ll see. MS did this all through the nineties (backdating).

    5. Apple’s top revenue generator, the iPod, is made with Asian sweatshop labor.
    According to who? What about Dell, HP, MS do they do business in china & India? What about MSN in China? Restricting free speech. What does this have to do with buying a computer? Again talking out of your ass.

    6. Apple has been rated by multiple environment organizations as the “least green” tech company, with wanton pollution.

    More nonsense….accordinng to the EPA they are one of the top environmental tech companies.

    7. Apple’s browser, which the force down Mac user’s throats, is locked in wrt its search provider due to exclusive deal with Google. A user can’t even add secondary search providers, let alone change the default

    I don’t have to use Apples web browser. I have plenty of other options. If I do, bookmarking other search sites is pretty easy. A non issue. If you want to use another search engine there are also free apps such as Safari enhancer.

    8. Stealing ideas from Konfabulator.
    Apple has had desktop accessories years before Konfabulator. MS pretty much borrowed that too. Even before Vista & it’s “Widgets”.

    10. Apple is the primary pusher of DRM.
    This one is funny. Go back & look up MS’s Janus to see the direction that MS was taking the industry. The recording & entertainment industry will not let anyone sell music, movies, etc. without DRM. If anything Apple’s has been the least restrictive. Sounds more like typical MS speak.

    12. Over the years, Apple has issued legal threats to bloggers multiple times. The most recent being just a couple weeks ago when bloggers had the temerity to blog about the iPhones “skins” that are already appearing for Palm and WinMoble smartphones (which render the iPhone useless, since smartphones already do more than the iPhone (at less price), but don’t look as pretty; the iPhone “skins” eliminate that iPhone advantage, so it’s now nothing more than a rich man’s toy that is about style over substance).

    Do you create anything…I see nothing wrong with companies defending copyright. The iPhone hasn’t even hit the market & yet here is another expert. I bet you haven’t been within 100 miles of one, yet you know it all. It amazes me how MS apologists have the gall to talk about business practices, computer security, DRM, backdating, Legals issues…the list goes on & on, and with a straight face. Yeah, evil Apple.

  25. 1. Using (abusing) monopoly power as sole possessor of Mac Hardware specs to kill off the Mac clone market, which was providing better Mac computers than Apple at lower prices.

    How so? I know MS hasn’t abused it monopoly power in any way. Apple is not a monopoly…look the word up. No more than sony for it’s play station or MS’s XBOX.

    2. Using monopoly power as sole provider of the Universal Binary specs to force competing IDE makers out of the market. This forced the big Mac devs like Adobe and Microsoft to abandon Metrowerks and move all development to Apple’s XCode, which is inferior.

    Why is it inferior? Because you say so?

    3. Portraying iPhone as the second coming, only to have it revealed by more rational analysis that it ain’t all that.

    It hasn’t even hit the market. How exactly do you know? Again talking out of your ass.

    4. Jobs OK’ing backdating of stock options (after he first denied knowing about them, then denied OK’ing them), and have his lackies falsify that this had been OK’ed by a Board meeting that never really took place. And Jobs, realizing that he might get caught, relinquished the options, but had them replaced with grants, which were again, backdated to increase his profit.

    Again you know everything that happened. We’ll see. MS did this all through the nineties (backdating).

    5. Apple’s top revenue generator, the iPod, is made with Asian sweatshop labor.
    According to who? What about Dell, HP, MS do they do business in china & India? What about MSN in China? Restricting free speech. What does this have to do with buying a computer? Again talking out of your ass.

    6. Apple has been rated by multiple environment organizations as the “least green” tech company, with wanton pollution.

    More nonsense….accordinng to the EPA they are one of the top environmental tech companies.

    7. Apple’s browser, which the force down Mac user’s throats, is locked in wrt its search provider due to exclusive deal with Google. A user can’t even add secondary search providers, let alone change the default

    I don’t have to use Apples web browser. I have plenty of other options. If I do, bookmarking other search sites is pretty easy. A non issue. If you want to use another search engine there are also free apps such as Safari enhancer.

    8. Stealing ideas from Konfabulator.
    Apple has had desktop accessories years before Konfabulator. MS pretty much borrowed that too. Even before Vista & it’s “Widgets”.

    10. Apple is the primary pusher of DRM.
    This one is funny. Go back & look up MS’s Janus to see the direction that MS was taking the industry. The recording & entertainment industry will not let anyone sell music, movies, etc. without DRM. If anything Apple’s has been the least restrictive. Sounds more like typical MS speak.

    12. Over the years, Apple has issued legal threats to bloggers multiple times. The most recent being just a couple weeks ago when bloggers had the temerity to blog about the iPhones “skins” that are already appearing for Palm and WinMoble smartphones (which render the iPhone useless, since smartphones already do more than the iPhone (at less price), but don’t look as pretty; the iPhone “skins” eliminate that iPhone advantage, so it’s now nothing more than a rich man’s toy that is about style over substance).

    Do you create anything…I see nothing wrong with companies defending copyright. The iPhone hasn’t even hit the market & yet here is another expert. I bet you haven’t been within 100 miles of one, yet you know it all. It amazes me how MS apologists have the gall to talk about business practices, computer security, DRM, backdating, Legals issues…the list goes on & on, and with a straight face. Yeah, evil Apple.

  26. @83

    Daniel, how can you continue to defend Apple?
    1. Using (abusing) monopoly power as sole possessor of Mac Hardware specs to kill off the Mac clone market, which was providing better Mac computers than Apple at lower prices.

    2. Using monopoly power as sole provider of the Universal Binary specs to force competing IDE makers out of the market. This forced the big Mac devs like Adobe and Microsoft to abandon Metrowerks and move all development to Apple’s XCode, which is inferior.

    3. Portraying iPhone as the second coming, only to have it revealed by more rational analysis that it ain’t all that.

    4. Jobs OK’ing backdating of stock options (after he first denied knowing about them, then denied OK’ing them), and have his lackies falsify that this had been OK’ed by a Board meeting that never really took place. And Jobs, realizing that he might get caught, relinquished the options, but had them replaced with grants, which were again, backdated to increase his profit.

    5. Apple’s top revenue generator, the iPod, is made with Asian sweatshop labor.

    6. Apple has been rated by multiple environment organizations as the “least green” tech company, with wanton pollution.

    7. Apple’s browser, which the force down Mac user’s throats, is locked in wrt its search provider due to exclusive deal with Google. A user can’t even add secondary search providers, let alone change the default.

    8. Stealing ideas from Konfabulator.

    9. Stealing ideas from the original Sherlock dev.

    10. Apple is the primary pusher of DRM.

    11. Apple, as a member of BDA, tried to get VC-1 removed from the BDA spec, despite evidence that it is the best codec for hi-def discs today.

    12. Over the years, Apple has issued legal threats to bloggers multiple times. The most recent being just a couple weeks ago when bloggers had the temerity to blog about the iPhones “skins” that are already appearing for Palm and WinMoble smartphones (which render the iPhone useless, since smartphones already do more than the iPhone (at less price), but don’t look as pretty; the iPhone “skins” eliminate that iPhone advantage, so it’s now nothing more than a rich man’s toy that is about style over substance).

  27. @83

    Daniel, how can you continue to defend Apple?
    1. Using (abusing) monopoly power as sole possessor of Mac Hardware specs to kill off the Mac clone market, which was providing better Mac computers than Apple at lower prices.

    2. Using monopoly power as sole provider of the Universal Binary specs to force competing IDE makers out of the market. This forced the big Mac devs like Adobe and Microsoft to abandon Metrowerks and move all development to Apple’s XCode, which is inferior.

    3. Portraying iPhone as the second coming, only to have it revealed by more rational analysis that it ain’t all that.

    4. Jobs OK’ing backdating of stock options (after he first denied knowing about them, then denied OK’ing them), and have his lackies falsify that this had been OK’ed by a Board meeting that never really took place. And Jobs, realizing that he might get caught, relinquished the options, but had them replaced with grants, which were again, backdated to increase his profit.

    5. Apple’s top revenue generator, the iPod, is made with Asian sweatshop labor.

    6. Apple has been rated by multiple environment organizations as the “least green” tech company, with wanton pollution.

    7. Apple’s browser, which the force down Mac user’s throats, is locked in wrt its search provider due to exclusive deal with Google. A user can’t even add secondary search providers, let alone change the default.

    8. Stealing ideas from Konfabulator.

    9. Stealing ideas from the original Sherlock dev.

    10. Apple is the primary pusher of DRM.

    11. Apple, as a member of BDA, tried to get VC-1 removed from the BDA spec, despite evidence that it is the best codec for hi-def discs today.

    12. Over the years, Apple has issued legal threats to bloggers multiple times. The most recent being just a couple weeks ago when bloggers had the temerity to blog about the iPhones “skins” that are already appearing for Palm and WinMoble smartphones (which render the iPhone useless, since smartphones already do more than the iPhone (at less price), but don’t look as pretty; the iPhone “skins” eliminate that iPhone advantage, so it’s now nothing more than a rich man’s toy that is about style over substance).

  28. I knew it was only a matter of time before the Linux crowd showed up.

    And where did I say that I’d be running free software? Not that free software sucks because I have found many good freeware (and FOSS, including Firefox) applications for Windows as a matter of fact.

    Ubuntu is cool, but it still cannot come even close to what Windows or OSX can do with multimedia. Talk to me after the next five versions of (place goofy animal name here) comes out.

    But hey, it least there’s a satanic version. Hows that for freedom?

    Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got plenty of good things to say about Ubuntu too, but this discussion is about Vista vs OSX.

    Besides people, is a couple hundred dollars really that much? In a year you will have paid it off for about $.55/day. Are you really that cheap? If so, I suggest you consider a career change.

  29. I knew it was only a matter of time before the Linux crowd showed up.

    And where did I say that I’d be running free software? Not that free software sucks because I have found many good freeware (and FOSS, including Firefox) applications for Windows as a matter of fact.

    Ubuntu is cool, but it still cannot come even close to what Windows or OSX can do with multimedia. Talk to me after the next five versions of (place goofy animal name here) comes out.

    But hey, it least there’s a satanic version. Hows that for freedom?

    Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got plenty of good things to say about Ubuntu too, but this discussion is about Vista vs OSX.

    Besides people, is a couple hundred dollars really that much? In a year you will have paid it off for about $.55/day. Are you really that cheap? If so, I suggest you consider a career change.

  30. 66 Podesta says
    > •Jack is apparently incapable of grasping
    > that there are different markets globally.

    > In addition, he can’t comprehend that
    > developing world computer users are actually
    > often using either Linux or pirated Microsoft
    > software.

    Wow, that’s amazing! You’ve taken *exactly* the points that I was making, and claimed that I wasn’t making them. How strange!

    OK, I’ll assume you were doing a quick skim, not actually taking stuff in. We’ve all done it. I won’t insult your intelligence, even though that seems to be your style ;-)

  31. 66 Podesta says
    > •Jack is apparently incapable of grasping
    > that there are different markets globally.

    > In addition, he can’t comprehend that
    > developing world computer users are actually
    > often using either Linux or pirated Microsoft
    > software.

    Wow, that’s amazing! You’ve taken *exactly* the points that I was making, and claimed that I wasn’t making them. How strange!

    OK, I’ll assume you were doing a quick skim, not actually taking stuff in. We’ve all done it. I won’t insult your intelligence, even though that seems to be your style ;-)

  32. Yup, Tiger envy indeed. Actual docs published here:

    http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/

    I don’t know how Windows fanboys can continue to defend this company. In the email concerning DR-DOS back in 1990, MS actually uses the term FUD in their email. Anything to discredit a better technology. Glad, I’ve been an Apple user since ’89.

    Wonder what will happen days after VISTA is introduced. Hmmmm, maybe an Apple special event announcing the release of Mac OS X v10.5, a.k.a “Leopard?

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html

  33. Yup, Tiger envy indeed. Actual docs published here:

    http://www.iowaconsumercase.org/

    I don’t know how Windows fanboys can continue to defend this company. In the email concerning DR-DOS back in 1990, MS actually uses the term FUD in their email. Anything to discredit a better technology. Glad, I’ve been an Apple user since ’89.

    Wonder what will happen days after VISTA is introduced. Hmmmm, maybe an Apple special event announcing the release of Mac OS X v10.5, a.k.a “Leopard?

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html

  34. Computing Philosophies:

    Windows Computers require — Microsoft and Hardware Vendor (HP, Dell, IBM, el cheapo, etc.).
    Macintosh Computers require — Apple and Apple

    Microsoft Windows OS User Environment is Application-centric. Document Windows open in an Application Window and can not move out of the application window.

    Apple OS X User Environment is Document-centric. Document Windows are free of the application constraints, and can freely be moved.

    Microsoft Windows started with CP/M, DOS, a text-based metaphor.
    Apple Macintosh started with Xerox Parc Work, a graphics-based metaphor.

    Microsoft Windows OS Upgrade Cycle – 5 to 10 years.
    Apple Mac OS X Upgrade Cycle – 1 to 2 years.

    Information or Computing Markets:

    90 to 95% of corporate uses are primarily text-based — Memos, e-mails, spreadsheets, data entry etc.

    Individual and small business uses are a mix of static (text and graphics) and dynamic (audio and video) content.

    Large Corporations are like Exxon Valdez. They require a lot of time to make decisions & change.
    Small Businesses and individuals are more agile and can change faster.

    Marketwise small business and individual users constitute a much bigger slice of the information needs market than corporations.

    Strategy:

    It is therefore better to focus on one larger individual and small business market and set the direction than compete in a smaller fairly stagnant corporate market.

    Bottom Line:

    “Apple leads and Microsoft follows by copying Apple”.

  35. Computing Philosophies:

    Windows Computers require — Microsoft and Hardware Vendor (HP, Dell, IBM, el cheapo, etc.).
    Macintosh Computers require — Apple and Apple

    Microsoft Windows OS User Environment is Application-centric. Document Windows open in an Application Window and can not move out of the application window.

    Apple OS X User Environment is Document-centric. Document Windows are free of the application constraints, and can freely be moved.

    Microsoft Windows started with CP/M, DOS, a text-based metaphor.
    Apple Macintosh started with Xerox Parc Work, a graphics-based metaphor.

    Microsoft Windows OS Upgrade Cycle – 5 to 10 years.
    Apple Mac OS X Upgrade Cycle – 1 to 2 years.

    Information or Computing Markets:

    90 to 95% of corporate uses are primarily text-based — Memos, e-mails, spreadsheets, data entry etc.

    Individual and small business uses are a mix of static (text and graphics) and dynamic (audio and video) content.

    Large Corporations are like Exxon Valdez. They require a lot of time to make decisions & change.
    Small Businesses and individuals are more agile and can change faster.

    Marketwise small business and individual users constitute a much bigger slice of the information needs market than corporations.

    Strategy:

    It is therefore better to focus on one larger individual and small business market and set the direction than compete in a smaller fairly stagnant corporate market.

    Bottom Line:

    “Apple leads and Microsoft follows by copying Apple”.

  36. Computing Philosophies:

    Windows Computers require — Microsoft and Hardware Vendor (HP, Dell, IBM, el cheapo, etc.).
    Macintosh Computers require — Apple and Apple

    Microsoft Windows OS User Environment is Application-centric. Document Windows open in an Application Window and can not move out of the application window.

    Apple OS X User Environment is Document-centric. Document Windows are free of the application constraints, and can freely be moved.

    Microsoft Windows started with CP/M, DOS, a text-based metaphor.
    Apple Macintosh started with Xerox Parc Work, a graphics-based metaphor.

    Microsoft Windows OS Upgrade Cycle – 5 to 10 years.
    Apple Mac OS X Upgrade Cycle – 1 to 2 years.

    Information or Computing Markets:

    90 to 95% of corporate uses are primarily text-based — Memos, e-mails, spreadsheets, data entry etc.

    Individual and small business uses are a mix of static (text and graphics) and dynamic (audio and video) content.

    Large Corporations area like Exxon Valdez. They require a lot of time to make decisions & change.
    Small Businesses and individuals are more agile and can change faster.

    Marketwise small business and individual users constitute a much bigger slice of the information needs market than corporations.

    Strategy:

    It is therefore better to focus on one larger individual and small business market and set the direction than compete in a smaller fairly stagnant corporate market.

    Bottom Line:

    “Apple leads and Microsoft follows by copying Apple”.

  37. Computing Philosophies:

    Windows Computers require — Microsoft and Hardware Vendor (HP, Dell, IBM, el cheapo, etc.).
    Macintosh Computers require — Apple and Apple

    Microsoft Windows OS User Environment is Application-centric. Document Windows open in an Application Window and can not move out of the application window.

    Apple OS X User Environment is Document-centric. Document Windows are free of the application constraints, and can freely be moved.

    Microsoft Windows started with CP/M, DOS, a text-based metaphor.
    Apple Macintosh started with Xerox Parc Work, a graphics-based metaphor.

    Microsoft Windows OS Upgrade Cycle – 5 to 10 years.
    Apple Mac OS X Upgrade Cycle – 1 to 2 years.

    Information or Computing Markets:

    90 to 95% of corporate uses are primarily text-based — Memos, e-mails, spreadsheets, data entry etc.

    Individual and small business uses are a mix of static (text and graphics) and dynamic (audio and video) content.

    Large Corporations area like Exxon Valdez. They require a lot of time to make decisions & change.
    Small Businesses and individuals are more agile and can change faster.

    Marketwise small business and individual users constitute a much bigger slice of the information needs market than corporations.

    Strategy:

    It is therefore better to focus on one larger individual and small business market and set the direction than compete in a smaller fairly stagnant corporate market.

    Bottom Line:

    “Apple leads and Microsoft follows by copying Apple”.

  38. We’ve been dorking around with Vista for a while. It is fun to use but unfortunately repeatedly crashed us when using Vegas 7.0. Had to use a “previous version of windows”. Anyway, I am going to a lunch and learn on Vista in a couple of weeks and will be posting a podcast on it. Anyone who wants me to send them an email when I have it posted I invite to drop me a comment. http://www.pugettown.com Or you could just subscribe to my RSS feed. ;)

    Oh, and I am considering getting a Mac for the first time since 1985ish when we had a 512K Mac. I can’t even imagine trying to use such a machine as a calculator, now. I am wondering if there is a reason all the vloggers use Mac? Does Mac have a better editing program than Vegas? Or is it just trendy and cool? Tell me!

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