Why Google will stay in China, despite “evilness”

Ahh, I see over on TechMeme that Google’s founders say that being in China hurt its image.

So, why won’t Google just leave China and improve its image?

Easy: there are too many smart engineers coming out of Chinese Universities. Leave China and you not only leave a market with more than a billion people in it, but you leave all those smart people to join other companies who haven’t taken an oath to “do no evil.”

When I worked at Microsoft the most amazing software was being done in China (face detection, speech recognition, and video search, just to name three, are being worked on in China, and those are among the hardest things to build).

Why should we care about the quality of our educational systems here in America?

This is precisely why.

I personally support Google and other companies (a bunch of Silicon Valley companies are there, and have been there for years) being in China.

I was in China several years ago and realize that most Americans really have no clue about what’s going on over there. I sure didn’t, before visiting.

I want to visit China again to cover this ongoing story.

105 thoughts on “Why Google will stay in China, despite “evilness”

  1. I am sure many people would have different opinions on “war for freedom” if the war happened right here in the US ;)

    Google will do whatever it takes to keep up with its growth. It could be better engineers, it could be the market, it could be anything. They cannot not be evil.

  2. I am sure many people would have different opinions on “war for freedom” if the war happened right here in the US ;)

    Google will do whatever it takes to keep up with its growth. It could be better engineers, it could be the market, it could be anything. They cannot not be evil.

  3. I would like to point out to the person who’s grandmother is paying $400 a month for her meds that if she were in a country where medicine is socialized, she would be allowed to die. In those countries medical care is a precious resource. It is only given to those who are determined to be able to give back.
    Since old people generally cannot work anymore, they get very limited care. This is fact. Diabetics only get a certain amount of dialysis for example. After a certain amount of time it is explained to them that “since you are in kidney failure, these are the symptoms to expect and then you will go to sleep and not wake up.” They get no more care.
    You should be glad your grandmother is allowed to get medication at all. In other countries medical care is not a right. It is a privilege.
    Drug addicts who cannot stay clean do not keep getting revived; old people and comatose patients are not kept on life support for years. Medical care is saved for those who will benefit the most. Our system has it flaws (and lots of ‘em) but it could be much worse.

  4. I would like to point out to the person who’s grandmother is paying $400 a month for her meds that if she were in a country where medicine is socialized, she would be allowed to die. In those countries medical care is a precious resource. It is only given to those who are determined to be able to give back.
    Since old people generally cannot work anymore, they get very limited care. This is fact. Diabetics only get a certain amount of dialysis for example. After a certain amount of time it is explained to them that “since you are in kidney failure, these are the symptoms to expect and then you will go to sleep and not wake up.” They get no more care.
    You should be glad your grandmother is allowed to get medication at all. In other countries medical care is not a right. It is a privilege.
    Drug addicts who cannot stay clean do not keep getting revived; old people and comatose patients are not kept on life support for years. Medical care is saved for those who will benefit the most. Our system has it flaws (and lots of ‘em) but it could be much worse.

  5. @45 And ironically the current administration is more constrained, and has MORE checks and balances set up than the administrations that interred the Japanese during WWII. And yet people like you think this administration is more out of control than FDR’s. If you want to see what trampling of rights felt like, study FDR’s during WWII. By comparison this administration is completely hamstrung. Oh, that’s right! You don’t read books, only blogs. Nevermind.

    How we treated the Indians? What have we ever done to India? Or the people from there that now live here?

  6. @45 And ironically the current administration is more constrained, and has MORE checks and balances set up than the administrations that interred the Japanese during WWII. And yet people like you think this administration is more out of control than FDR’s. If you want to see what trampling of rights felt like, study FDR’s during WWII. By comparison this administration is completely hamstrung. Oh, that’s right! You don’t read books, only blogs. Nevermind.

    How we treated the Indians? What have we ever done to India? Or the people from there that now live here?

  7. ha, I love comments such as Ann and Peter’s about what China “is”. Based, I’m assuming, on no contact with the country and a superficial look at the press they regularly read.

    I’ve lived here for over 7 years and continuously marvel at this impression of China as a totalatarian state throwing people into jail as soon as they write the word “Falun Gong”. Damn, here comes the police now.

    Anne, Peter – move to a country, live with the people there and I think, most importantly, don’t assume that because peoples’ idiosyncrasies are different from American’s that they are wrong.

    Also, please note that those great freedom loving, US supported Asian democracies such as Sth. Korea, Taiwan were brutal dictatorships well into the 80′s and 90′s of last century. Hell, Japan had virtual one party rule into the 90′s.

    The one thing your kind of simplistic analysis of countries such as China always fail to take into account is that cultures and governments also change in time. After all, who would have thought that the fiscally strong, surplus loving, freedom loving US government of the 90′s would have mutated into a government that supports increased government spending, large deficits, international nation building and large amounts of intrusion into the personal lives of its citizens.

    China now is not China of 1989, let alone 1976.

  8. ha, I love comments such as Ann and Peter’s about what China “is”. Based, I’m assuming, on no contact with the country and a superficial look at the press they regularly read.

    I’ve lived here for over 7 years and continuously marvel at this impression of China as a totalatarian state throwing people into jail as soon as they write the word “Falun Gong”. Damn, here comes the police now.

    Anne, Peter – move to a country, live with the people there and I think, most importantly, don’t assume that because peoples’ idiosyncrasies are different from American’s that they are wrong.

    Also, please note that those great freedom loving, US supported Asian democracies such as Sth. Korea, Taiwan were brutal dictatorships well into the 80′s and 90′s of last century. Hell, Japan had virtual one party rule into the 90′s.

    The one thing your kind of simplistic analysis of countries such as China always fail to take into account is that cultures and governments also change in time. After all, who would have thought that the fiscally strong, surplus loving, freedom loving US government of the 90′s would have mutated into a government that supports increased government spending, large deficits, international nation building and large amounts of intrusion into the personal lives of its citizens.

    China now is not China of 1989, let alone 1976.

  9. Rick: I was thinking more of how we treated the Indians, or the Chinese, or the Japanese (who we interned, even the ones who were American Citizens), or the blacks.

  10. Rick: I was thinking more of how we treated the Indians, or the Chinese, or the Japanese (who we interned, even the ones who were American Citizens), or the blacks.

  11. Hi Vijay,

    “American/World Businesses need China more than China needs them.”

    I would have to disagree with you here. America is still the largest consumer purchasing country in the world & the economy in China wouldn’t have expanded without the creation of jobs (and investment) in China by America companies & other developed countries.

    Note: I am not trying to be America-centric. But a lot of the growth in many countries can be directly attributed to investment by “westernized” countries & businesses.

    Government: As someone that personally doesn’t enjoy communism, I understand that some would object to doing any sort of business with governments we don’t like. At the same time, having a presence there is probably more likely to initiate change than NOT being there at all.

  12. Hi Vijay,

    “American/World Businesses need China more than China needs them.”

    I would have to disagree with you here. America is still the largest consumer purchasing country in the world & the economy in China wouldn’t have expanded without the creation of jobs (and investment) in China by America companies & other developed countries.

    Note: I am not trying to be America-centric. But a lot of the growth in many countries can be directly attributed to investment by “westernized” countries & businesses.

    Government: As someone that personally doesn’t enjoy communism, I understand that some would object to doing any sort of business with governments we don’t like. At the same time, having a presence there is probably more likely to initiate change than NOT being there at all.

  13. Robert said:

    “Peter: now imagine you live in Iraq. Search and replace what you just said about “Chinese” and put in “American.”

    We’ve had plenty of atrocities in our VERY SHORT (when compared to the Chinese) history too.”

    Sorry can’t let that go Robert. There is no comparison between what the Chinese government does thousands of times a day and what the United States has done in Iraq no matter your stance on the Iraq war.

  14. Robert said:

    “Peter: now imagine you live in Iraq. Search and replace what you just said about “Chinese” and put in “American.”

    We’ve had plenty of atrocities in our VERY SHORT (when compared to the Chinese) history too.”

    Sorry can’t let that go Robert. There is no comparison between what the Chinese government does thousands of times a day and what the United States has done in Iraq no matter your stance on the Iraq war.

  15. Ann, claiming “free people in Iraq” and “Iraq is a free country now” is ignorant, hypocritical and shameful. The invasion of Iraq did nothing good for US and obviously destroyed life of Iraq people.

    Back to Google in China topic, you obviously have no clue what’s going on in China. You indulge in your idealogical, religious and illusive thinking but refuse and fear to face the real world.

    People should simply ignore you here.

  16. Ann, claiming “free people in Iraq” and “Iraq is a free country now” is ignorant, hypocritical and shameful. The invasion of Iraq did nothing good for US and obviously destroyed life of Iraq people.

    Back to Google in China topic, you obviously have no clue what’s going on in China. You indulge in your idealogical, religious and illusive thinking but refuse and fear to face the real world.

    People should simply ignore you here.

  17. American/World Businesses need China more than China needs them.

    China also has great technical and creative people. Its in our interest to keep the doors open.

  18. American/World Businesses need China more than China needs them.

    China also has great technical and creative people. Its in our interest to keep the doors open.

  19. Peter,

    Ah, but whose definition of ‘nice’ shall we use?

    And is investing one of the things God cares about? ;-)

    I see what youre saying, but this is where each individual must take their own path. The people who can generate a lot of money, also tend to generate jobs for others. Who, in turn, put their money back into the economy.

    Sure, nobody ‘needs’ a huge house or a mercedes or a bmw, but those things are not evil in and of themselves.

    Money is not the bad guy here – but the love of money is a road to an unfulling life. My pastor can do a lot of good things with a lot of money, but his favorite saying is that “God can do much more with a righteous nickel than an unrighteous million”

  20. Peter,

    Ah, but whose definition of ‘nice’ shall we use?

    And is investing one of the things God cares about? ;-)

    I see what youre saying, but this is where each individual must take their own path. The people who can generate a lot of money, also tend to generate jobs for others. Who, in turn, put their money back into the economy.

    Sure, nobody ‘needs’ a huge house or a mercedes or a bmw, but those things are not evil in and of themselves.

    Money is not the bad guy here – but the love of money is a road to an unfulling life. My pastor can do a lot of good things with a lot of money, but his favorite saying is that “God can do much more with a righteous nickel than an unrighteous million”

  21. Ann,

    I agree with you (to a point). I’m a hard-core Christian as well, but I can only do so much for my family short of bankrupting myself in terms of medical help. Thankfully, my immediate family unit is healthy, but others in my family are not.

    The Church does help quite a bit, as it was designed. In terms of living large, I recall Christ saying something about taking up one’s cross and following Him. We cannot worship God and love our stuff. Big houses, fancy cars, etc. all detract from the Christian life. Christ stated that what man adores, God hates. Worship here does not mean literal worship, as you know, but placing undue respect for the acquisition of goods that we don’t need.

    No one needs a huge house. No one needs a Mercedes or BMW. People need a nice, clean home and a well-maintained car. People should be good stewards of their money and invest it rather than blow it on stupid desires like cars and large houses.

    Keeping up with the Joneses is stupid as is keeping up appearances to fit in.

  22. Ann,

    I agree with you (to a point). I’m a hard-core Christian as well, but I can only do so much for my family short of bankrupting myself in terms of medical help. Thankfully, my immediate family unit is healthy, but others in my family are not.

    The Church does help quite a bit, as it was designed. In terms of living large, I recall Christ saying something about taking up one’s cross and following Him. We cannot worship God and love our stuff. Big houses, fancy cars, etc. all detract from the Christian life. Christ stated that what man adores, God hates. Worship here does not mean literal worship, as you know, but placing undue respect for the acquisition of goods that we don’t need.

    No one needs a huge house. No one needs a Mercedes or BMW. People need a nice, clean home and a well-maintained car. People should be good stewards of their money and invest it rather than blow it on stupid desires like cars and large houses.

    Keeping up with the Joneses is stupid as is keeping up appearances to fit in.

  23. Peter,

    if it were me, I’d find alternatives to most of the meds being pushed out there by doctors.

    some of it is life saving, no doubt. a lot of it is just junk meant to deter the affects of the other bad meds.

    i think families ought to be taking care of each other, not the govt. churches do an outstanding job of that right now, in lieu of families.

    but the more the govt does, the less the family does for itself. and that is not right.

  24. Peter,

    if it were me, I’d find alternatives to most of the meds being pushed out there by doctors.

    some of it is life saving, no doubt. a lot of it is just junk meant to deter the affects of the other bad meds.

    i think families ought to be taking care of each other, not the govt. churches do an outstanding job of that right now, in lieu of families.

    but the more the govt does, the less the family does for itself. and that is not right.

  25. Ann,

    I AM opposed to living large. It’s tacky.

    Tell me this… what would YOU do should you find yourself in a monetary situation whereby you could not afford the medicine that you need to LIVE, not be comfortable, but actually stay alive?

    My grandmother pays over $400 dollars a month for her medicine that she would die without. She has medicare/medicaid, etc, but it’s not enough. Her medicine should be covered, since she’s given enough to society over the years in taxes, etc.

  26. Ann,

    I AM opposed to living large. It’s tacky.

    Tell me this… what would YOU do should you find yourself in a monetary situation whereby you could not afford the medicine that you need to LIVE, not be comfortable, but actually stay alive?

    My grandmother pays over $400 dollars a month for her medicine that she would die without. She has medicare/medicaid, etc, but it’s not enough. Her medicine should be covered, since she’s given enough to society over the years in taxes, etc.

  27. Rober @32

    Yes, i do think the war could be going so much better if the left would get out of the way.

    GW is one of the best presidents this country has had in a long, long time. He doesnt poll endlessly about what he thinks he should do; he just does the right thing.

    The American people arent afraid of war; they want it prosecuted for a change. Stop tying the hands of the soldiers and let them get to it. What are you afraid of? That we might win??

  28. Rober @32

    Yes, i do think the war could be going so much better if the left would get out of the way.

    GW is one of the best presidents this country has had in a long, long time. He doesnt poll endlessly about what he thinks he should do; he just does the right thing.

    The American people arent afraid of war; they want it prosecuted for a change. Stop tying the hands of the soldiers and let them get to it. What are you afraid of? That we might win??

  29. Peter,

    I know plenty of doctors (in the family) and none of them is ‘rich’ – most of them have ballooning malpractice insurance rates to pay (thanks to Edwards and other trial lawyers) and lots of overhead to pay, as well as their educations to repay.

    Being a doctor is not an automatic lottery win.

    As for the pharmaceuticals? I’m not for limiting what companies can earn. If the market bears their price, then so be it. If it doesnt, they will lose money and go another way.

    I also dont like limiting what any business person can make; if the market pays them well, that’s great. They in turn, put more money back into the economy by buying those mercedes.

    I am a realist, and a capitalist.

  30. Peter,

    I know plenty of doctors (in the family) and none of them is ‘rich’ – most of them have ballooning malpractice insurance rates to pay (thanks to Edwards and other trial lawyers) and lots of overhead to pay, as well as their educations to repay.

    Being a doctor is not an automatic lottery win.

    As for the pharmaceuticals? I’m not for limiting what companies can earn. If the market bears their price, then so be it. If it doesnt, they will lose money and go another way.

    I also dont like limiting what any business person can make; if the market pays them well, that’s great. They in turn, put more money back into the economy by buying those mercedes.

    I am a realist, and a capitalist.

  31. Ann,

    You cannot argue with me that doctors and pharm cos. make too much money. No doctor should enter the profession for the money. Rather, they should do it to help people as their primary goal. Money should not even be secondary. I visited South America a number of years ago, and I had to visit a hospital while traveling. I was impressed to say the least. They do more with less. Far more. It was the absolute cleanest hospital I have ever set foot in. The doctor that saw us was the epitomy of professionalism and bedside manner — and he wasn’t treating me any different because I was American. I was charged the same thing as the locals, a mere pittance. The nurses all seemed to really care for their patients, and I can assure you, everyone there was poor. That’s how American doctors should be, not driving Mercedes, living like John Edwards, and taking million dollar vacations to places that their patients, who most of work far harder, cannot afford.

  32. Ann,

    You cannot argue with me that doctors and pharm cos. make too much money. No doctor should enter the profession for the money. Rather, they should do it to help people as their primary goal. Money should not even be secondary. I visited South America a number of years ago, and I had to visit a hospital while traveling. I was impressed to say the least. They do more with less. Far more. It was the absolute cleanest hospital I have ever set foot in. The doctor that saw us was the epitomy of professionalism and bedside manner — and he wasn’t treating me any different because I was American. I was charged the same thing as the locals, a mere pittance. The nurses all seemed to really care for their patients, and I can assure you, everyone there was poor. That’s how American doctors should be, not driving Mercedes, living like John Edwards, and taking million dollar vacations to places that their patients, who most of work far harder, cannot afford.

  33. Ann: wild that you think the war is going well over in Iraq. How many billions over budget is it again? How many people have died? How likely are we to “win” anytime soon?

    My two brothers were in the military. But, all we know about you is your first name. For all I know is you are a PR person paid by Lockheed.

  34. Ann: wild that you think the war is going well over in Iraq. How many billions over budget is it again? How many people have died? How likely are we to “win” anytime soon?

    My two brothers were in the military. But, all we know about you is your first name. For all I know is you are a PR person paid by Lockheed.

  35. Peter,

    I think we can agree to disagree on socialized medicine. I have lived it and its not a good thing.

    There is no ‘free’ anything in life. Doctors who work in socialized medicine are not top notch – they have no reason to be.

    And our taxes, such as they are, mostly go towards social handouts that arent even needed by the people who use them. Our ‘needy’ in America are overweight, and have all the latest electronics – i see no need for paying more for them.

    But I appreciate that you do see the falling apart of the family unit in the world; thats a sad and tragic thing and the lefties are only all too happy to keep it going.

  36. Peter,

    I think we can agree to disagree on socialized medicine. I have lived it and its not a good thing.

    There is no ‘free’ anything in life. Doctors who work in socialized medicine are not top notch – they have no reason to be.

    And our taxes, such as they are, mostly go towards social handouts that arent even needed by the people who use them. Our ‘needy’ in America are overweight, and have all the latest electronics – i see no need for paying more for them.

    But I appreciate that you do see the falling apart of the family unit in the world; thats a sad and tragic thing and the lefties are only all too happy to keep it going.

  37. Robert,

    Only someone with total myopic vision (the Left) would say that Iraq is a mess.

    It’s the handwringing of the left (per usual) that has made it the small mess that it is.

    This war would have been over long ago if the Pelosi’s and the Kennedy’s and the Kerry’s would shut their yaps and let the soldiers DO their jobs.

    But seeing as you know zip about the military, I’m going to bow out now before you further embarass yourself in this line of thought.

  38. Robert,

    Only someone with total myopic vision (the Left) would say that Iraq is a mess.

    It’s the handwringing of the left (per usual) that has made it the small mess that it is.

    This war would have been over long ago if the Pelosi’s and the Kennedy’s and the Kerry’s would shut their yaps and let the soldiers DO their jobs.

    But seeing as you know zip about the military, I’m going to bow out now before you further embarass yourself in this line of thought.

  39. Ann,

    I agree with you on the family unit. The world is slouching towards Gomorrah, to quote Judge Robert Bork. What with homosexual marriage, legalized abortion, latch-key kids, you name it.

    I agree with you. I disagree on what a citizen should get in return for paying taxes. I pay and see no real return on investment. What real tangible resuslts do I see? Good roads? Not really? A military to protect me? Could be.

    I want socialized medicine as do most Americans. Medical care is a basic human right, not a priviledge. Even for illegal immigrants.

    Doctors make far too much money. The pharmaceutical companies have too strong a lobby in the government.

    Let’s get back to doctors making house calls and charging us a reasonable f(r)ee.

  40. Robert,

    That was absolutely pitiful! Guantanamo Bay was not set up under George Bush. And Abu Graib was also not his ‘prison.’

    Though you will argue with this point; GW doesnt micromanage his generals in the field, though the left would sure LOVE to do so.

    If we lose in Iraq, it will be because the left despises our military winning – not because some idgit in iraq was made to wear panties on their head.

    Get over it already! Iraq is a free country now and there aint squat you can do about it.

  41. Robert,

    That was absolutely pitiful! Guantanamo Bay was not set up under George Bush. And Abu Graib was also not his ‘prison.’

    Though you will argue with this point; GW doesnt micromanage his generals in the field, though the left would sure LOVE to do so.

    If we lose in Iraq, it will be because the left despises our military winning – not because some idgit in iraq was made to wear panties on their head.

    Get over it already! Iraq is a free country now and there aint squat you can do about it.

  42. Ann,

    I agree with you on the family unit. The world is slouching towards Gomorrah, to quote Judge Robert Bork. What with homosexual marriage, legalized abortion, latch-key kids, you name it.

    I agree with you. I disagree on what a citizen should get in return for paying taxes. I pay and see no real return on investment. What real tangible resuslts do I see? Good roads? Not really? A military to protect me? Could be.

    I want socialized medicine as do most Americans. Medical care is a basic human right, not a priviledge. Even for illegal immigrants.

    Doctors make far too much money. The pharmaceutical companies have too strong a lobby in the government.

    Let’s get back to doctors making house calls and charging us a reasonable f(r)ee.

  43. Peter: that was the point I was trying to make. That even in our so-called “enlightened” society that there are many who feel pressured to keep their identities secret due to fear of reprisals.

    Ann: well, I’d rather we focus on improving our own country before we get all up in arms over how other people run their countries.

    It’s attitudes like “we must teach those losers a lesson” that lead to wars. And to the mess we’re in in Iraq.

  44. Peter: that was the point I was trying to make. That even in our so-called “enlightened” society that there are many who feel pressured to keep their identities secret due to fear of reprisals.

    Ann: well, I’d rather we focus on improving our own country before we get all up in arms over how other people run their countries.

    It’s attitudes like “we must teach those losers a lesson” that lead to wars. And to the mess we’re in in Iraq.

  45. Robert,

    On not including last names: Some people value their privacy. I surf through a proxy server out of Spain, even though I’m in the western US. I value my privacy. I say things on some sites that are not popular with certain people, including people that are elected. I have a right to that privacy.

    Even in the US, we have no real freedom of speech in the truest sense. If you differ too much with the American political norms, you are considered a threat, even though you may not even be harmful.

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