Joost … deleted instantly here

March 1, 2007 By

I was one of the seemingly lucky ones who got a beta invite to Joost, the hyped up media distribution network from the folks who created Skype. I got my invite by begging on Twitter.

I installed it. It took over my entire screen. I couldn’t figure out how to get out. Or get back to Google Reader and Outlook and my other apps.

Well, I’m lying. I know how to get back to other apps. Alt-Tab.

Or Ctrl-Alt-Delete, which pulls up task manager and I can kill that process.

I did that and promptly deleted it.

What a rude app. I don’t care how cool it is. You don’t take over my desktop if you want me to use you.

Filed Under: 1

http://handelaar.org/ John Handelaar

If we’re going to use 1987 Windows interfaces, try Alt-F4. I’ll bet cash money *that* works.
http://handelaar.org John Handelaar

If we’re going to use 1987 Windows interfaces, try Alt-F4. I’ll bet cash money *that* works.
http://brandsimo.wordpress.com/ adam

robert: double clicking on the screen will switch back and forth from full screen to window.

i agree that it’s not a UI that is normal – and it shocked me when it opened full screen but as you play around it gets more intuitive.

just because it’s different doesn’t make it bad…

(and no, i’m not related to the company)
http://brandsimo.wordpress.com adam

robert: double clicking on the screen will switch back and forth from full screen to window.

i agree that it’s not a UI that is normal – and it shocked me when it opened full screen but as you play around it gets more intuitive.

just because it’s different doesn’t make it bad…

(and no, i’m not related to the company)
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Mat: I guess I should have called it a “YouTube World.” The problem is there are hundreds of companies all vying for your attention.

Adam: different is OK if you’re selling video games. If you’re selling apps that need to co-exist with my workspace then that’s a whole nother thing.

I have it back on and will try it again. But it already is proving to not be a good experience in another way: with a Verizon Wireless card the video experience sucks. (Other videos on Internet work just fine). They need to make it step down for low bandwidth situations and/or do more buffering.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Mat: I guess I should have called it a “YouTube World.” The problem is there are hundreds of companies all vying for your attention.

Adam: different is OK if you’re selling video games. If you’re selling apps that need to co-exist with my workspace then that’s a whole nother thing.

I have it back on and will try it again. But it already is proving to not be a good experience in another way: with a Verizon Wireless card the video experience sucks. (Other videos on Internet work just fine). They need to make it step down for low bandwidth situations and/or do more buffering.
http://fifthdecade.wordpress.com/ fifthdecade

Robert, admit it, you just don’t like anything Microsoft didn’t think of or use first. Are you going to say Office is a rude app and not use it just because it’s user interface uses a ribbon and not the same interface of the last 20 years?

Sometimes, you do come across like a Windows whore.

For heavens sake, work stuff out before you slag it off! All you’re doing is showing your own ignorance here.
http://fifthdecade.wordpress.com/ fifthdecade

Robert, admit it, you just don’t like anything Microsoft didn’t think of or use first. Are you going to say Office is a rude app and not use it just because it’s user interface uses a ribbon and not the same interface of the last 20 years?

Sometimes, you do come across like a Windows whore.

For heavens sake, work stuff out before you slag it off! All you’re doing is showing your own ignorance here.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Jeff: I have a folder of 59 pieces of software and services I should try out (seriously, I do, and that’s after cleaning out the stuff that I’m not interested in). How will ANYONE in this world give any piece of software more than a few minutes attention at first?

Why does Joost deserve more attention than, say, Dabble or Blinkx? Those two services both work better and are more satisfying.

And if it’s for my HDTV I bet an Apple iTV will be more satisfying there.

I just don’t get the hype around Joost.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Jeff: I have a folder of 59 pieces of software and services I should try out (seriously, I do, and that’s after cleaning out the stuff that I’m not interested in). How will ANYONE in this world give any piece of software more than a few minutes attention at first?

Why does Joost deserve more attention than, say, Dabble or Blinkx? Those two services both work better and are more satisfying.

And if it’s for my HDTV I bet an Apple iTV will be more satisfying there.

I just don’t get the hype around Joost.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

fifthdecade: the ribbon didn’t change the fundamental UI (the maximize, minimize, etc) in a way that made me not only figure it out, but made all the productivity stuff go away. Imagine if every app had those kinds of common things in a different place.

As to why I don’t give software more than a few minutes trial anymore. I have a folder of 59 things that are asking for my attention. And yours.

Seriously, I do.

So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don’t get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3′s new stuff, or Apple’s iTV.

I note there’s again a lot of attacking me (must be a lot of people who are associated with Joost here, it’s interesting that many of the attackers never have participated in comments here before) but there’s very little light.

So, why does Joost deserve our attention?
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

fifthdecade: the ribbon didn’t change the fundamental UI (the maximize, minimize, etc) in a way that made me not only figure it out, but made all the productivity stuff go away. Imagine if every app had those kinds of common things in a different place.

As to why I don’t give software more than a few minutes trial anymore. I have a folder of 59 things that are asking for my attention. And yours.

Seriously, I do.

So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don’t get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3′s new stuff, or Apple’s iTV.

I note there’s again a lot of attacking me (must be a lot of people who are associated with Joost here, it’s interesting that many of the attackers never have participated in comments here before) but there’s very little light.

So, why does Joost deserve our attention?
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Oh, sorry, I see where I used “Twitter World” above. Maybe I should have said “YouTube” world. I’m still getting questions about when I will make my videos shorter cause many people don’t like watching long things (or taking long periods of time to consider things).
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Oh, sorry, I see where I used “Twitter World” above. Maybe I should have said “YouTube” world. I’m still getting questions about when I will make my videos shorter cause many people don’t like watching long things (or taking long periods of time to consider things).
http://fifthdecade.wordpress.com/ fifthdecade

For me, it’s nothing to do with Joost which I don’t have or know much about, other than it’s something to do with Skype which I also don’t have. It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.

Most people I suspect are surprised at you, a geek techy person, not being able to work out how to switch views when clearly lots of others have done.

If you have a folder of 59 things that need to have your attention, perhaps you could be more selective? Nobody can review everything, and if they do those reviews will be worth not very much as a result.

I guess you posted this in haste. What’s that saying? Act in haste, repent at leisure…
http://fifthdecade.wordpress.com/ fifthdecade

For me, it’s nothing to do with Joost which I don’t have or know much about, other than it’s something to do with Skype which I also don’t have. It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.

Most people I suspect are surprised at you, a geek techy person, not being able to work out how to switch views when clearly lots of others have done.

If you have a folder of 59 things that need to have your attention, perhaps you could be more selective? Nobody can review everything, and if they do those reviews will be worth not very much as a result.

I guess you posted this in haste. What’s that saying? Act in haste, repent at leisure…
Goebbels

“So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don’t get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff, or Apple’s iTV.

So, why does Joost deserve our attention?”

Jesus, this is hilarious coming from you. I’ll tell you a few of the most obvious reasons:

1. Scooping other video aggregation sites on a series of both significant and niche media content deals/partnerships.
2. Focus on full screen, high quality content rather than low quality, postcard video constrained within Flash frames. (Moving internet video upmarket.) (Shouldn’t HD-Boy be raving about this?)
3. Willingness to abandon 30 year old and business-defined UI and move toward a more modern, use-specific, consumer- and media-focused interface tailored to the content and experience rather than using the same UI for all purposes. (Again, weren’t you cheerleading such efforts in Longhorn 6 years ago?)
4. Pursuing internet video with a fairly unique paradigm/model (shared by Democracy and proabbaly some other apps) of creating an application interface to internet “television” (streams of short and long form content available as “channels”) rather than the already antiquated site aggregation model.
5. (Minor Point) Adopting a Mac-esque, primarily HUD-oriented UI… It’s interesting that it’s look-and-feel is taking many, many cues from Apple while remaining unique. To build on #3, The content is the userspace, interaction is within, or over, it. As opposed to models which minimize the content to a few inches square on an overloaded and crowded page of antiquated content.

Why Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff are not as “talk worthy”:

They are largely a mashup of YouTube (low quality, short form video clips presented within a Flash container with aggregation and lame community features) and Digg with extremely minor variations on the theme and feature sets.
Goebbels

“So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don’t get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff, or Apple’s iTV.

So, why does Joost deserve our attention?”

Jesus, this is hilarious coming from you. I’ll tell you a few of the most obvious reasons:

1. Scooping other video aggregation sites on a series of both significant and niche media content deals/partnerships.
2. Focus on full screen, high quality content rather than low quality, postcard video constrained within Flash frames. (Moving internet video upmarket.) (Shouldn’t HD-Boy be raving about this?)
3. Willingness to abandon 30 year old and business-defined UI and move toward a more modern, use-specific, consumer- and media-focused interface tailored to the content and experience rather than using the same UI for all purposes. (Again, weren’t you cheerleading such efforts in Longhorn 6 years ago?)
4. Pursuing internet video with a fairly unique paradigm/model (shared by Democracy and proabbaly some other apps) of creating an application interface to internet “television” (streams of short and long form content available as “channels”) rather than the already antiquated site aggregation model.
5. (Minor Point) Adopting a Mac-esque, primarily HUD-oriented UI… It’s interesting that it’s look-and-feel is taking many, many cues from Apple while remaining unique. To build on #3, The content is the userspace, interaction is within, or over, it. As opposed to models which minimize the content to a few inches square on an overloaded and crowded page of antiquated content.

Why Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff are not as “talk worthy”:

They are largely a mashup of YouTube (low quality, short form video clips presented within a Flash container with aggregation and lame community features) and Digg with extremely minor variations on the theme and feature sets.
http://www.networkperformancedaily.com/ Brian Boyko

Robert: I’m not going to argue with you about UI and full-screen, or that, but you did ask “Why does Joost deserve our attention?”

I think as an application, it’s certainly nothing to look at; keep in mind you’re looking at a beta version of the software. I’d prefer a more concentrated UI and not the fancy Fischer-Price stuff.

But from a holistic standpoint, Joost is well worth the hype, for a few reasons.

First, Joost provides a viable alternative to the Cable/Satellite duopoly. This is not the case now, in it’s early stages, but it has the potential to replace television subscription services. To those of us who like a few TV programs but would rather not pay cable costs, it’s a godsend.

Second, Joost is the first video-over-Internet app that really targets the “middle tail.” If you follow the Chris Anderson “Long Tail” theory of abundance, the networks have focused on the cream of the crop (or at least the lowest common denominator) and YouTube and other such sites have focused on the content of the Long Tail. This is an economy of abundance. However, the Long Tail does not cope well with passive viewership, only active search. We have entered the economy of abundance, but finding the good stuff in the mix is harder.

Joost is the first service that targets the middle tail – they need content which is obscure enough not to have been picked up by the television services but not so obscure only a few people will watch it – driving up the bandwidth. In short, they need the “middle tail.”

From a networking perspective, Joost is important because consumer broadband networks typically remain underutilized. Even when bittorrenting, you don’t bittorrent all the time. Once you have the file, you seed, which may use all upload bandwidth but downloading stops.

Any IT department guy will tell you that any underutilized link is a waste of money – Joost is a way for consumers to utilize more effectively what they have already paid for.

Finally, there’s the fact that Joost means Money for content creators.

Yes, Joost sells ads and kicks back pennies to the content creators. But there is nothing that prevents the content creators from embedding their own ads in the video and in so doing, keeping the money from those sales.

– Brian Boyko
– Editor, Network Performance Daily.
– http://www.networkperformancedaily.com
http://www.networkperformancedaily.com Brian Boyko

Robert: I’m not going to argue with you about UI and full-screen, or that, but you did ask “Why does Joost deserve our attention?”

I think as an application, it’s certainly nothing to look at; keep in mind you’re looking at a beta version of the software. I’d prefer a more concentrated UI and not the fancy Fischer-Price stuff.

But from a holistic standpoint, Joost is well worth the hype, for a few reasons.

First, Joost provides a viable alternative to the Cable/Satellite duopoly. This is not the case now, in it’s early stages, but it has the potential to replace television subscription services. To those of us who like a few TV programs but would rather not pay cable costs, it’s a godsend.

Second, Joost is the first video-over-Internet app that really targets the “middle tail.” If you follow the Chris Anderson “Long Tail” theory of abundance, the networks have focused on the cream of the crop (or at least the lowest common denominator) and YouTube and other such sites have focused on the content of the Long Tail. This is an economy of abundance. However, the Long Tail does not cope well with passive viewership, only active search. We have entered the economy of abundance, but finding the good stuff in the mix is harder.

Joost is the first service that targets the middle tail – they need content which is obscure enough not to have been picked up by the television services but not so obscure only a few people will watch it – driving up the bandwidth. In short, they need the “middle tail.”

From a networking perspective, Joost is important because consumer broadband networks typically remain underutilized. Even when bittorrenting, you don’t bittorrent all the time. Once you have the file, you seed, which may use all upload bandwidth but downloading stops.

Any IT department guy will tell you that any underutilized link is a waste of money – Joost is a way for consumers to utilize more effectively what they have already paid for.

Finally, there’s the fact that Joost means Money for content creators.

Yes, Joost sells ads and kicks back pennies to the content creators. But there is nothing that prevents the content creators from embedding their own ads in the video and in so doing, keeping the money from those sales.

– Brian Boyko
– Editor, Network Performance Daily.
– http://www.networkperformancedaily.com
Goebbels

Oops, I forgot another one which should have appealed to you (I’ll call it 4a)”

4a. Joost, unlike any of the sites you mentioned, is a P2P-based network system. (I would point out that as use grows your speed issues could be mitigated, and that, two, you recently proclaimed NetFlix’s death simply because you interviewed someone about a video P2P distribution system.) More interesting to me, this is Kazaa offering a legitimate offering.

Which makes me think of another point:

6. This is from the makers of Skype and Kazaa, two “proven” properties of the internet age.
Goebbels

Oops, I forgot another one which should have appealed to you (I’ll call it 4a)”

4a. Joost, unlike any of the sites you mentioned, is a P2P-based network system. (I would point out that as use grows your speed issues could be mitigated, and that, two, you recently proclaimed NetFlix’s death simply because you interviewed someone about a video P2P distribution system.) More interesting to me, this is Kazaa offering a legitimate offering.

Which makes me think of another point:

6. This is from the makers of Skype and Kazaa, two “proven” properties of the internet age.
LayZ

@56 “How will ANYONE in this world give any piece of software more than a few minutes attention at first? ”

That’s your problem. You are promiscuous to your detriment. Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence
LayZ

@56 “How will ANYONE in this world give any piece of software more than a few minutes attention at first? ”

That’s your problem. You are promiscuous to your detriment. Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

LayZ: really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff. Ask the average CTO how many pieces of software he or she has tried in the last week. The ones I know say “zero” or, maybe, “one” if it’s something work related.

>>It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.

I don’t use games on my PC. That’s what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

LayZ: really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff. Ask the average CTO how many pieces of software he or she has tried in the last week. The ones I know say “zero” or, maybe, “one” if it’s something work related.

>>It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.

I don’t use games on my PC. That’s what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point.
http://ericrice.com/ Eric Rice

Joost might be the first to get large format stuff to my home theater.

I didn’t pay 50,000 bucks to watch postage stamps in flash. If Joost can be the one to change that, fine.

I’m a tech guy too, but we’re outnumbered by normal guys. We as tech bloggers should focus on them as our prime directive.
http://ericrice.com Eric Rice

Joost might be the first to get large format stuff to my home theater.

I didn’t pay 50,000 bucks to watch postage stamps in flash. If Joost can be the one to change that, fine.

I’m a tech guy too, but we’re outnumbered by normal guys. We as tech bloggers should focus on them as our prime directive.
Goebbels

“really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff.”

Did you forget how to read?

“Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence”

Just because you think it’s your responsibility to use every new application put in front of your face doesn’t mean it’s any other professionals responsibility. However, because you choose to, it is your obligation to ACTUALLY test them and provide a measured critique. Not to uninstall in 5 minutes and to post whining 5 minutes later.

“I don’t use games on my PC. That’s what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point.”

What is your point? That video has no place on the PC and belongs on a console? That you don’t fully participate in the game or video market on the PC so you aren’t qualified and/or experienced? What exactly is your point? You’ve already conceded that you overreacted and are reevaluating so what the hell is EXACTLY your point?
Allie

I tried Joost, and I liked it. I don’t mind it taking up the screen — if I want to watch TV, I want it to be as big as possible.

It just feels much better to me, and the quality is higher than YouTube.

I find this whole shift to TV-over-the-internet (aka “over the top”) pretty wild — this industry is changing so drastically, right before our eyes.

For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It’s the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.

- Allie
Goebbels

“really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff.”

Did you forget how to read?

“Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence”

Just because you think it’s your responsibility to use every new application put in front of your face doesn’t mean it’s any other professionals responsibility. However, because you choose to, it is your obligation to ACTUALLY test them and provide a measured critique. Not to uninstall in 5 minutes and to post whining 5 minutes later.

“I don’t use games on my PC. That’s what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point.”

What is your point? That video has no place on the PC and belongs on a console? That you don’t fully participate in the game or video market on the PC so you aren’t qualified and/or experienced? What exactly is your point? You’ve already conceded that you overreacted and are reevaluating so what the hell is EXACTLY your point?
Allie

I tried Joost, and I liked it. I don’t mind it taking up the screen — if I want to watch TV, I want it to be as big as possible.

It just feels much better to me, and the quality is higher than YouTube.

I find this whole shift to TV-over-the-internet (aka “over the top”) pretty wild — this industry is changing so drastically, right before our eyes.

For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It’s the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.

- Allie
Christopher Coulter

Ok, I gotta peek. I gotta go with Goebbels @60…I think Joost is great, in fact best of lot, best of breed, hope it sticks around. Viacom ain’t no dummy. And it terms of the biz model, you might want to be worried, Vloggers will get far more exposure here, and they will have advertising dollars locked in, and better revenue sharing ops. But instead of catcalling it and fumbling badly with the beta, I’d establish a ‘teaser channel’ of sorts. There is a video-sharing shakeout going on, some 260 video-sharing sites (egads), the wacky and wild-west YouTube and clones are starting to wane, and Joost is playing the high-quality professional-stream card. Heck of a shakeout coming, but my chips are on Joost at least.

And Mr. 28, nope. No can do. None of your biz anyways.
Christopher Coulter

Ok, I gotta peek. I gotta go with Goebbels @60…I think Joost is great, in fact best of lot, best of breed, hope it sticks around. Viacom ain’t no dummy. And it terms of the biz model, you might want to be worried, Vloggers will get far more exposure here, and they will have advertising dollars locked in, and better revenue sharing ops. But instead of catcalling it and fumbling badly with the beta, I’d establish a ‘teaser channel’ of sorts. There is a video-sharing shakeout going on, some 260 video-sharing sites (egads), the wacky and wild-west YouTube and clones are starting to wane, and Joost is playing the high-quality professional-stream card. Heck of a shakeout coming, but my chips are on Joost at least.

And Mr. 28, nope. No can do. None of your biz anyways.
Christopher Coulter

PS – And oh, PC games are NOT dead. RTS and heavy RPG just doesn’t translate very well on console. And Sim styled stuff, Flight Sim X and the like.

For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It’s the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.

Agree fully.
Christopher Coulter

PS – And oh, PC games are NOT dead. RTS and heavy RPG just doesn’t translate very well on console. And Sim styled stuff, Flight Sim X and the like.

For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It’s the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.

Agree fully.
http://ericrice.com/ Eric Rice

Hey check it, Joost has an RSS reader in it, I was skimming this post about Joost on Joost. meta!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericrice/407943934/
http://ericrice.com Eric Rice

Hey check it, Joost has an RSS reader in it, I was skimming this post about Joost on Joost. meta!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericrice/407943934/
http://pentdego.com/ Ed

How dumb can a person be..
I have some tokens left so if anyone is interested..
http://pentdego.com Ed

How dumb can a person be..
I have some tokens left so if anyone is interested..
Pingback: Denis au fil du web » links for 2007-03-02
http://www.webware.com/ Rafe

I like Joost’s full-screen UI. And for those who don’t know, the “power” icon exits the app. Unconventional from a Windows perspective but quite comprehensible if you’ve used any consumer electronics products in the last ten years. I think it’s cool how it puts a good “living room” UI on a Windows app.

-Rafe
http://www.webware.com Rafe

I like Joost’s full-screen UI. And for those who don’t know, the “power” icon exits the app. Unconventional from a Windows perspective but quite comprehensible if you’ve used any consumer electronics products in the last ten years. I think it’s cool how it puts a good “living room” UI on a Windows app.

-Rafe
http://wenchadmin.wordpress.com/ deannie

Wow I can’t believe it. I recently installed Joost and got it right away.

When it went to full screen I just double clicked on the window and got a partial screen. I also found the controls on my own at 12, 3 6 and 9 o’clock in about 5 minutes.

Robert, you must have just been tired when you tried this out. Try it again. The content was interesting, the quality is good.
http://wenchadmin.wordpress.com/ deannie

Wow I can’t believe it. I recently installed Joost and got it right away.

When it went to full screen I just double clicked on the window and got a partial screen. I also found the controls on my own at 12, 3 6 and 9 o’clock in about 5 minutes.

Robert, you must have just been tired when you tried this out. Try it again. The content was interesting, the quality is good.
http://modernday.wordpress.com/ modernday

Hey, that Joost program sounds awesome. That sucks that you don’t like it maybe you should give it another go? I’d love an invite I saw they have Fifth Gear on the program list. I wonder if they have Top Gear !
http://modernday.wordpress.com/ modernday

Hey, that Joost program sounds awesome. That sucks that you don’t like it maybe you should give it another go? I’d love an invite I saw they have Fifth Gear on the program list. I wonder if they have Top Gear !
Joost

Well if you give up that easely you don’t even deserve an invite! I got my invite after not having to beg at all and I thought it looks pretty good with a pretty good picture quality too! Anyway kazaa boys don’t let anyone stop you and yesss Top Gear is awesome and would be a great addition!

Joost (it’s a Dutch name and means Joe simple right!?)
Joost

Well if you give up that easely you don’t even deserve an invite! I got my invite after not having to beg at all and I thought it looks pretty good with a pretty good picture quality too! Anyway kazaa boys don’t let anyone stop you and yesss Top Gear is awesome and would be a great addition!

Joost (it’s a Dutch name and means Joe simple right!?)
http://scopettg.wordpress.com/ scopettg

Hmm… I suppose that’s some give and take.
Take it easy lah~

Joost … deleted instantly here

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