Apple TV rocks
I bought an Apple TV tonight.
I’ve watched Ask a Ninja, Rocketboom, my show, and Ze Frank on it so far.
Works as advertised. Easy to setup. It rocks.
It makes me want to put out a high res version of my show. But, it’s pretty watchable, even at the low resolution it is.
I’m watching Kevin Schofield on my 60-inch TV on it. The tour he gave me of MS Research’s TechFest really rocks. I’m watching the second part.
I think I’m going to use this almost wholly to look at Internet video shows.
The integration with iTunes really is great. This is a winner. I take back anything I wrote about it before.
Oh, and it also supports 1080i HD. Read the comments, my brother points out that while it says on the menu that it supports 1080i, it actually doesn’t output in that resolution.
I picked it up at the Palo Alto Apple store tonight. They still had them in stock after the Office 2.0 party I attended down the block with Maryam.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:15 pm
My god, it’s like Apple knows what they’re doing.
If only they could harness this engineering prowess to produce computers or perhaps even an operating system, that would be a sight indeed.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Yawn. For the past few weeks I’ve been watching Comedy Central on demand using an XBox 360 as a Vista MCE. I’m sure I could have done it a long time before that.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:33 pm
You have a 360, how would you compare the two streaming from a PC (via media center or media connect). Obviously the 360 doesn’t natively support mp4, so I presume that played a role in the purchase. But would love to hear your thoughts.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Damn it Robert your blog posts are extremely valuable - like this one - but without photos/videos they are much less worth. Maybe you could put some SHORT (up to 2-3 minuts) videos too here?
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Joe: yeah, and the fact that it just hooks up directly to my TV. No need for extender weirdnesses.
And I sit on my couch with iTunes controlling what gets on my TV. I download something with iTunes and it shows up on Apple TV a few seconds later. It really is amazing. All through wifi.
Apple has done a better job of building a simple experience. Media Center is better for geeks, cause it does more. At least that’s my first impression.
But, for about $350 (including cables and taxes) this is a great purchase.
I can’t see getting an Xbox and a Media Center for that little money.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Cool! I look forward to seeing it in action next week at our user group’s Apple TV Event.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:14 am
Hey Robert. In terms of price, depends on what OS you have (need XP MCE or Vista Home Premium) for the 360. Assuming you do, the price is not far off, $50 or so more for a 360 Core with wifi adapter.
Looks like Gizmodo has a comparison up: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/apple-tv-vs-xbox-360-media-center-showdown-246440.php
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:21 am
1080i not p. For progressive, the max is 720. I’m running mine at 1080i and it’s great, though it seems to crash everytime I try and sync photos. Granted, I have 35K of them, but it still shouldn’t crash. Otherwise, delightful piece of engineering.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:43 am
It baffles me how people can get so excited about this when the Xbox 360 has such an upper hand:
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house.
2. Interface that 3rd parties can extend: Transcode 360 as one example. (Yes, it adds features to the extender’s interface also). OMG humongous list here:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/20347.aspx
3. Apple TV doesn’t stream stuff? (that’s the impression I got from the Gizmodo article) Like I want to wait for things to sync before I start looking at them.
3.5. You can play games on the Xbox. One can say this doesn’t count because some people don’t care about playing games, but let’s face it a lot of us would.
I am curious how the Apple TV handles playlists. Can you play a music playlist that you have made on iTunes?
I’m not sure what extender weirdness you are talking about. Just watch the dots rotate for a while, punch 8 digits in your media center pc, and it works. According to the Gizmodo article, it sounds like they are both equally easy to set up. So I would appreciate your thoughts on which part is easier.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:47 am
Aaron: Xbox is cool too. But if I want to watch Rocketboom it’s a lot easier on Apple TV.
Playlists come over from iTunes, as far as I can tell.
Extender weirdness? My Wifi system causes it to crash once in a while. My Media Center is upstairs, though, so to do anything, like download Rocketboom, I gotta go upstairs. Download Rocketboom, make sure it’s in the right directory, then head back downstairs to watch again.
Using Apple TV I do everything from my laptop.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:43 am
Ermmm .. Robert? Remote desktop connection from your laptop to your mediacenter. Initiate download and play on the 360. Or even better, connect your 360 to the Media Player on your laptop and that’s it!
But on the other hand, I see your point. Apple tends to make complicated things quite easy. They build neat stuff.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:22 am
A new Apple TV?! How the other half live. I’ll be waiting until someone I know manages to grab one second hand off eBay, before I see one :-(
monk.e.boy
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:52 am
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house.
From David Pogue’s followup to his review of the iTV, the Xbox 360 as a media center, and the Netgear EVA8000, http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/bridging-the-computer-to-tv-divide/
Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on.
Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways. First, each movie is available for rental only during a several-week window–then it’s gone. Second, you have to start watching the movie within two weeks of downloading it. Third, once you start watching it, you have to finish watching within 24 hours.
In each case, the movie is lost forever if you’re tardy.
I’m not seeing that as a great selling point for movies on the 360. Ah, sweet, sweet rolling over for the DRM lords.
3.5. You can play games on the Xbox. One can say this doesn’t count because some people don’t care about playing games, but let’s face it a lot of us would.
I’m thinking that the 360 gets bought for games first, and then “hey, I can play movies too? Sweet!”
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:04 am
I don’t get it.
What it does offer: integration with iTunes.
What it doesn’t offer: about 99% of all of the other stuff I already do with video-content.
And I’m not even that interested in integration with iTunes, since I can plug all of my computers straight into my TV without extra equipment…
I love Apple products, but I really don’t get the added value of Apple TV.
Maybe it’s just me, but I never understood the need for any of these devices that are supposed to integrate computers with television. All computers I’ve bought since the ‘95 can be hooked up directly to the TV. Any old one will do to serve as a permanent interface between the TV and my home network.
Sure, Apple TV looks better then the old Asus laptop currently plugged into my TV and stereo, but it can play all of the content I want to see and hear instead of just 5 percent…
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:38 am
Supports 1080i? I take back (almost) everything bad I said about it. Does the Apple TV need a user logged into the PC where the media files reside in order to stream music and video? Can it play iso files?
I’m currently using an old PIII desktop with GB-PVR to stream to my media room. With various plug-ins, it essentially functions as a poor man’s Kalaidescape system + Music Jukebox + PVR. It has a slick, easy to use interface (and total price to me, including the computer, was $0), but, as with any home-brew-type software, it can be a bit buggy. And then there’s the machine boot-up time, which runs into several minutes. And the heat in my media rack.
If I can get the same (or similar) functionality without the boot lag and heat, I might be willing to shell out some clams.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:42 am
I can absolutely understand dudes hating on this as a media device - it can’t really compete with the versatility of an XBox 360 or the features of a TiVo or Media Center PC. But, really, that’s not what it is.
Once you stop thinking of the Apple TV as a home theater component or living room workhorse and start thinking of it as an iPod + iTunes accessory, you can start to understand the appeal and imagine it (like other iPod-related accessories) selling like hotcakes.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:52 am
[...] Apple TV rocks « Scobleizer - Tech Geek Blogger [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:52 am
AppleTV is an extension to your HD Plasma TV and works just like an iPod (except wirelessly).
AppleTV auto sychs (wirelessly) all the media you have on your mac/pc iTunes library.
Simple as that, if its in iTunes its in AppleTV. (e.g. videos, podcasts, tv-shows, movies, audiobooks)
If you have your own DVD’s or AVI or WMV or DIVX files you can convert them to MPEG-4 (.mp4/H.264) then they can be managed by iTunes. Once you have that done, they will auto-synch with AppleTV.
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:54 am
This is the Scoble I love, telling it how it is!
Thank science you took M$ weight off your shoulders and now can speak freely about everything you like, good or bad.
Kudos!
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:54 am
People in the “I don’t get it” crowd tend to be geeks who can’t see beyond their own point of view. It was the same with the iPod - the original Slashdot discussion on the launch panned it.
Apple TV will work because people buy it and plug it in, and it “just works”, in the same way the iPod “just works” with iTunes. It is to watching video via the internet what the iPod is to listening to music via the Internet.
It’s a shame that Microsoft, for all the fantastic work they do, don’t get this. They did briefly license Media Center Extenders but they’ve all gone now. They *should* develop a simple WiFi box that just automagically hooks into WMP11 on _any_ computer, but of course that wouldn’t drive sales for Vista Premium…
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:16 am
I’m sure I’m missing the point, but I can’t get into the AppleTV yet. How is it better than something like http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=438?
The AppleTV doesn’t seem to support a lot of other formats that other similiar products do, including Ogg, DivX/XvId. Most things no support HDMI/Component/HD.
Is the AppleTV work without MaxOSX? While most other things list windows, they’ll actually pull media form any UPnP source, including dumb file server NAS machines.
I guess like all things, if you’re life doesn’t revolve around an iPod, then there are better products than the AppleTV for this type of activity.
Or, I’m missing something in the hype. Also a good possibility. :-)
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:34 am
Did apple release the Apple tv because the mac minis didn’t make it into people’s living rooms? Can’t you get a mini for a $100 more?
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 am
Why does it always have to be this device rocks so that one must suck? The Apple TV looks cool. The Xbox is cool. Can’t we have 2 cool products? Why does one have to be better than the other? Who cares. Just like ford vs chevy both have strengths and weaknesses that appeal to different people. This world is big enough for lots of cool products and I say Apple and Microsoft bring em on!
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:08 am
Aaron Axvig and others have a point.
From my perspective, I have way too many media devices in my living room already. Like me, lots of people won’t feel compelled to buy an Apple TV because they see it as a redundant device where there’s already an XBOX 360 and/or a TiVo.
For video purchases, I can buy or rent movies and TV shows from Amazon (to watch on the TiVo) or from Microsoft to watch on the 360. I don’t because I think the two services suck (for similar reasons), but that’s another discussion.
However, Apple TV has the video podcast integration with iTunes. That’s key, because the best the guys from TiVo could come up with was their stupid TivoCasts, which suck due to limited selection of questionable taste.
Now that poses a problem for TiVo, right? They are pushing their customers to seek another box to watch Internet content. And once there’s another box in the room, the very existence of the TiVo box is at risk.
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:08 am
I went to my local Apple Store to check it out last night. But they didn’t have them in stock yet. I just wanted to see it. I have a MacMini hooked up to my TV so I doubt that there is any compelling reason to move to Apple TV–which would probably be a downgrade. It’s great to watch internet video in the living room, but I wish there was a way to browse for new content via the remote and front row.
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:26 am
Could somebody check and see it Apple TV will stream Shoutcast radio streams from within iTunes to the television.
Also, people should think of Apple TV more like a on steroid version of Airport Express. APple is trying to make the computer your digital hub where you gather our media content. Apple TV just brings it to the living room.
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:38 am
Well, I’m all for seeing a high res version of Scoble Show — but I’d be pushing for a WMV version to feature in TVTonic’s channel guide.
Speaking of, can you subscribe to new vodcasts from your couch/remote-control on the AppleTV?
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:45 am
Met, the Mini actually costs $300 more, and that will be the direction I go, because I am of the geek variety.
But everyone here (mostly) is of the geek type, so most of us are going to say “why doesn’t it do this….?”. I don’t think that’s the audience. The audience is somewhere between technically inept and sub-geek–like much of the population that has already bought HD TVs.
I think for what it is, and I think Terrin’s description is best as of today, a steroid version of Airport Express. You’re not stuck to iTunes content, just stuff that can be played in iTunes native formats (i.e., without video codec plug-ins that enable you to play other formats, like Divx, avi, wmv, etc–a mini would let you do this). For that, it is a work of genius and simple elegance. For some people, it may be worth it just to control their music colleciton from their living room. It’s not for X-Box people. Why complain, you’ve got your X-Box.
So I am going the Mini route, but I wish they had stepped up the feature set just a notch with video codecs (that may be installed on the host PC) and net access (for various reasons, including buying legit content, or maybe even downloading not so legit content).
Remember, it takes MS at least 2 or 3 times to get it right, and this is ver 1. I’m sure some of these capabilities will come out via software revisions and future generations of the hardware. (I can’t wait though…I’m going to have to spring for the mini, unless some good hacks show up in the next couple of weeks). I am actually surprised Apple was able to pull this off this well on the first go around.
I think the uber-geeks need to just respect it for what it is, and get what they need. Like the Apple TV, x-boxes are not for everyone, but they are probably better for a larger audience than the x-box.
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:55 am
I think it is a great product - pretty, easy and no hassle - and for those that already have a solution - you are not forced to buy it ;-)
I wonder - can you play a TS_Video folder? (ie a backed-up DVD?)
March 23rd, 2007 at 7:57 am
I been reading post here and on other sites… One of the comon ideas is that why buy it when you can just get a DVI to HDMI cable and use it directly. The advanage there is you get you whole desktop etc. The big draw back is the the computer(s) have to be in the same room! or you have to run back and forth as you couldn’t use the remote to find your media! ATV is great as for a lot of people as a computer extender to the living room.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:01 am
I do not think you can play a TS_Video folder, unless iTunes plays it without any plug-ins. You can convert a DVD to MP4 using handbrake though. This takes about 30-60 minutes depending on your PC horsepower. I have used it to convert a load of my 2-year old’s videos (the ones that are played over and over again), and those would work great on iTV, with about the same about of work as converting to a TS_Video folder.
In fact, if you want to convert content, you will be able to play almost anything, because there are various tools to convert all formats to MP4. However, I get a lot of content that is already Divx or avi (mostly) and I don’t want to have to go through another generation of conversion (the time + possible quality degradation).
People are already ripping the thing apart to start the hacking. So it may not be long that WE geeks have some wider application of the Apple TV. A few weeks should tell…
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:02 am
[...] Robert Scoble, Scobleizer [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:06 am
#27: I just interviewed execs at TVTonic and they showed me a version that’ll play my show. There are some bugs with my show and Vista that they say Apple is working on fixing.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:06 am
Robert, didn’t you prophesy that Apple TV was DOA back in January during MacWorld?
I think it rocks. Set it up in about 30 seconds and was off and running.
Apple TV’s interface blow the 360’s out of the water. It is much easier to use. And it has far more output choices than a 360. I still find it hard to believe that the 360 doesn’t have an HDMI interface.
iTunes is the killer app in the whole Apple pantheon. It is much easier to buy media through itunes than on the 360. Using a keyboard to enter search criteria in the music store has advantages over scrolling through lists of crap on the 360. And itunes uses normal currency, not stupid Microsoft points.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:09 am
Paul: yeah, I did say that. But, back then I didn’t think it’d support 1080i.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:14 am
Two reasons I’m not buying it (now).
1) In Europe you can’t buy TV series nor Movies on the iTunes store (yet).
2) My SD TV does not have component-in, just Scart and S-Video.
Otherwise I would have bought it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:17 am
Man I want one now :(
I’d go completely cable less if it weren’t for live content (ie: sports). I cannot go without watching the Red Sox and Patriots in HD, live. It is not a negotiable thing.
If I weren’t a sports fan, I’d buy Apple TV in a moment and cancel Cable. I could buy a season pass show I watch and it would still be cheaper per year then cable.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:18 am
Robert, congratulations on your purchase. Mine shows up at the office today. I expect to suddenly fall ill and need to go home, only to miraculously recover.
It’s my feeling that those criticizing the Apple TV as too expensive for too few features aren’t getting it. They said the same thing about the iPod. Wrong then and wrong now.
I wrote more about this last night: The Apple TV Debate Is Upside Down
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:19 am
Just wait until a USB TV Tuner comes out for it and the 80GB/120GB version … Can you say “Tivo Killer?” Awww yeah!
http://www.harddrivelife.com
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:20 am
I’m not even a big fan of the Apple TV (a bit too pricey for just streaming music, podcasts, and iTS content), and I don’t see it being a really mainstream, breakthrough success until Apple (a) ups the quality of their movies to 720, and (b) offers either NetFlix-like subscriptions or rentals for movies.
That said, it looks like a well-executed device — tightly focused, lot of polish and thought into a simple UE.
As for MS’s 360-as-MCE-extender strategy…. even though it does more (PVR especially!), you only have to look at the size and noise of the 360 compared to the Apple TV to see the serious flaws in MS’s living room approach. (That they expect you to use a 360 *game controller* as a remote to my mind speaks volumes here about the inability to reach a mainstream audience.) Get the noise down, include a real remote, figure out how to market a gaming console to the much larger audience of non-gamers… and then we’ve got a contender. ’til then, no dice.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 am
@34 Yes, let’s go to the video tape: http://scobleizer.com/2007/01/09/appletv-xbox-without-the-x/
@35. “Didn’t think?” In other words you jumped to conclusions without doing any research? I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 am
[...] I have to say that I really like the Apple TV. I bought it yesterday at my local Apple Store.Scoble likes it too. What's fun about his post is the comments that follow. There is one post in particular that [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:21 am
“Yawn. For the past few weeks I’ve been watching Comedy Central on demand using an XBox 360″
One thing great about the AppleTV launch and resulting comments on all the blogs-it shows that many Xbox360 owners are just as smug and full of themselves about their “shiny boxes” as Apple users are. :p
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:29 am
#41: I did do research. Apple at the time didn’t say it’d support 1080i. Why does Apple thrill, though? They underpromise and overdeliver.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:58 am
I wonder how 1080i does over a 802.11G Network
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:58 am
I had a question that no one at the Apple store or Macworld could answer.
How well does Apple TV display photos as a slideshow? I am particularly interested in the case where the photos are stored in a directory on a Windows XP-based PC not and the photos are not being managed by iTunes or iPhoto (obviously).
Robert, any feedback on this use case would be appreciated.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:04 am
My Apple tv is at the Fedex center 30 kilometers away so I’m not leaving the house today!
One thing…one word…. about the lack of this or that with the Apple TV.
Leopard!!!!!!
Just wait. The new operating system will add plenty of new punch to the Apple tv.
I’ll bet my bottom dollar there will be vast improvements of the functionality when it comes out in about a month and a half. Then there are the hacks that will help as well. Seeing how easy this was to take apart…never seen a new tech product that was so easy to rip open…I’m sure the mods will be flowing forth in a very short time.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:06 am
Steve, I think the photos look just fine. I haven’t played much with the different settings for the photo screen saver yet, but what I saw was fine for me.
I have no idea about streaming from a Windows box, I am using iphoto.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:31 am
Scobleizer: Apple TV rocks
I think I’m going to use this almost wholly to look at Internet video shows. The integration with iTunes really is great. This is a winner. I take back anything I wrote about it before.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:52 am
[...] Robert Scoble of Scobleizer blog fame has purchased an Apple TV. He, as many of the rest of us, was critical of the usability of the device when it was first announced. Robert is singing a different tune now (see below) and thinks that the Apple TV rocks. Apple TV rocks « Scobleizer - Tech Geek Blogger: [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 am
Time rich/money poor vs. time poor/money rich.
http://www.blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2007/03/apple-versus-microsoft-marketing-it
All of the “doesn’t have feature z, i can just run a cable across the ceiling down the stairs behind the furniture and plug it into my tv” complaints are time rich money poor complaints.
“But it just works, I don’t care whehter it does z just let me see the stuff I have in iTunes” arguments are time poor money rich.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:04 am
Here are some of the things I thing the people that “dont get it” don’t get.
Its all about the user experience just like the iPod. You basically manage all your media (photos, music, video, podcast) on one computer and be able to enjoy it on the big screen basically hassel free.
I think ATV is for people who have more disposable income and not too much free time. The people that makes over $30/hr who after a long days work just want to turn it on and enjoy. This is an end to end solution that just works without having to think about it. Sure that are many other products that can do the same, but it takes effort and research to get everything that you want it to do. That is more for geeks and people that don’t mind saving a little money by trading their time to tweak optimize their gears.
Why it will be successful?
ITUNES. You manage everything in one place simple and ellegantly. You no longer need to store media on hard media, which takes up space, can get damaged, and sometimes hard to find. You can have thousands of songs on your iPods. Imagine listening to thousands of them on CDs with your CD players. You can do it, but the user experience between the using iPod and CDs… you get the picture.
Advantages?
Now you can just buy a movie or TV show and watch it anytime with ATV and anywhere with your iPod. No commercial. No need for Tivo anymore. No need to buy or waste gas to rent DVDs anymore. On subscription TV services, you might only watch a few shows, but you have to pay for all the crap that you don’t watch. Plus you have to schedule your time around the show instead of the other way around. If you have a night out with friends, guess you have to miss the show. So you can throw this out the door too if you use iTunes.
Why not get a Mac Mini?
If you also have a computer in your room, which computer do you use to manage your media. If you use the the one in your room, what if you want to enjoy a movie or photos with friends and family on the big screen. If you have it on your mini, you can’t use it in your room. Sure you can just copy it to the other computer, but that takes away from the simplicity of managing all your media in a central location. Also if you have friends that might bring over a laptop with something to show, you can do this with ATV very easily, but not with a Mac Mini.
Why not get a Laptop?
Sure you can craw behind the TV and plug it in with a HDMI cable and unplug it as needed. But do you really want to do this everytime. And I don’t know about the durability of these connectors if you plug and unplug everyday. Might be less hassel and cheaper to get an ATV then risking damaging the ports.
Bottom line.
If your time is valuble or if you just want a simple and elegant way to enjoy your media, ATV is for you. Its a no brainer.
Get it?
Got it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:05 am
#48
There are so many podcast out there that are now using high def. I do think that the availability of podcast on a hd tv will be a door that opens up much of this to the none podcast community. A whole world will open up and that may indeed be the future of tv in general.
Cant wait for rocketboom or geekbriefs on my tv!
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:06 am
For me, this changes everything:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956
Not only can you install Divx/Xvid codecs, but *any* QuickTime plug-in on the Apple TV (also enabling Windows Media files via Flip4Mac).
Prior to this, I thought the Apple TV was like as if they had released the iPod without MP3 support.
This, combined with easily upgrading the hard drive and other easy hacks makes this a must-have device for me, despite already owning a bunch of other digital media players for my TVs.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:13 am
Sorry, bro, but you are wrong on this one. It doesn’t DO 1080 video.
The max resolution of the video formats that it will handle is 720p. You are confusing this with the fact that it will output video to 1080i, however, the source video is still 720p.
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html
It’s all there in the specs.
XBox 360 still wins.
Also, since the 360 has downloadable content similar to what Apple is offering, an MCE isn’t even needed to view videos on the 360, so 360 isn’t beat their either.
I’m very surprised that you bought this as it offers nothing new to your home theater.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:43 am
I think XBOX 360 wins because you can’t play Dead Rising on Apple TV.
That being said, I will probably end up with both of them.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:49 am
Oh and you don’t need a Windows MCE box to send video to your 360 either. There’s software out there that will allow you to send media of all kinds from your Mac.
http://snowcrash751.blogspot.com/2007/03/have-your-mac-talk-to-your-xbox-360.html
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:50 am
Again… 1080i IS NOT NECESSARILY better than 720p, and is OFTEN worse.
http://www.neopoleon.com/home/blogs/neo/archive/2005/12/06/18198.aspx
http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm
bottom line is it has more to do with the set YOU own and the device (STB/appleTV/etc) YOU own, not the standard.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:54 am
Alex and Jeremy, the point is well established that Scoble can’t actually recognize the difference in resolutions, he just wants to believe he’s got the biggest and the best.
He’s enjoying the device despite watching lower-rez content and not having a clue.
That’s all that matters.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:56 am
“I’d go completely cable less if it weren’t for live content (ie: sports).” — Chris G. @37
Put up an antenna. I’ve gotten all my local stations (Chicago) that way for the last couple of years. Of course, the Cubs have been awful since my antenna went up (2/2004), so not all has been good.
“Sorry, bro, but you are wrong on this one. It doesn’t DO 1080 video.” — Alex Scoble
So, do I have to reinstate the stuff I took back that I originally said?
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 am
By the way Jeremy, in this case, the web sites you linked to are hardly valid. Sure, you could argue that 720P at 60 FPS is better than 1080i at 30 FPS, at least for motion, but in this case, the best that Apple TV can do is 720P at 24 FPS.
Also the second web site is showing incorrect depictions of what usually happens in interlaced video. What it is actually showing are interlace errors where two fields (half-frames) are deinterlaced in the wrong order. When two fields are deinterlaced in the correct order you get an accurate and sharp picture.
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:06 am
Joet
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:09 am
Weird, my whole post got truncated to one word?
JoeT, no, wait for confirmation. Clearly Apple is playing it safe with their tech specs, and Alex is not speaking with any authority.
The tech specs say a widescreen is required; it is not. Apple played it safe with codec support, but with the launch explanded it (although only minorly).
There is every reason to believe that 1080i is supported. Framerates and hiccups may be a concern which is why they are being conservative.
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:10 am
Alex: Goebbels is right. I’m not going to watch Discovery Channel content on Apple TV. It will be interesting to compare the quality of high-grade video between Apple TV and Media Center. If I were going to watch movies through it I might care, but for now I’m using HD-DVD, which is a lot better quality than Apple TV and generally easier (and cheaper) to get videos from (I have Netflix).
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:13 am
3. Apple TV doesn’t stream stuff? (that’s the impression I got from the Gizmodo article) Like I want to wait for things to sync before I start looking at them.
From Macworld:
The Apple TV can also stream content from up to five computers. To do so, navigate to the Sources menu on the Apple TV, select Connect to New iTunes, and a new PIN number appears. Enter this PIN number into the Apple TV preferences on the new computer’s copy of iTunes, and iTunes will tell you you’re in sync. You can now stream content from that computer’s library to the Apple TV.
Still not getting one, because my TV works. Not HD, not SD with component video. Last thing I watched? Season one of “Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea”. HD, until it is as cheap as my (now) 7 year old TV, is so not on my horizon, unless it’s accidently.
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:20 am
DVDs are still better for two reasons, one of which I’ve seen addressed:
1) 5.1 sound. There’s a discussion going on at Macintouch about this. Some QuickTime formats support this, some don’t. But the movies you buy from Apple have mere stereo sound.
2) CHAPTER BREAKS! Nobody talks about this, but it makes a tremendous difference. For movie buffs like me, the ability to step through a movie scene by scene (not scroll through using an imprecise potentiometer-style display or by holding down a button and watching the video scan rapidly by) is a feature I really don’t want to lose.
I could mention commentary tracks, too.
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:30 am
Isn’t it just like a big wireless hard disk connected to telly with a FrontRow UI?
I thought it didn’t stream content to the box/tv from your pc. I thought it syncs/copies them over for playback?
Can you confirm?
I have had a TV out for yeeears with a tv or projector hooked up. Logitech did nice job on their ‘lean back’ media player, controlling it via their bluetooth controller.
Soon portable media players will have much more power and equal quality to these Apple boxes (iTunes hard drives with a tv-out) and they’ll record what you want and let you play it where you want.
I’m sure this Apple TV is a nice product. They do make nice hardware. But to ‘it rocks’ might be an overstatement? Hmm? ;)
It just doesn’t seem revolutionary at all. Maybe its just about the simplicity for all the iTunes users who are already forced into using that interface for their padlocked content. ;p
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:41 am
Yes, kosso, for the tenth time it streams.
It syncs/copies to/from the main library for the most reliable playback, but it can also stream from any of up to 5 PCs on the network. (Most valuable when guests want to play THEIR photo slideshow, music, or videos from their laptops.)
Other key features that make it unique:
It does go direct to the internet (if only to get trailers… the potential is there) using 802.11n if you have it.
It preserves pauses across the ecosystem of TV-PC-iPod so that you can resume viewing across all your devices.
It does not require a PC so, yes, it can be used like a portable media player once loaded with content and connected to other TVs. (I could easily imagine ripping a few films to bring along on trips… housesitting, etc…)
If you are consuming TV shows from iTS via subscription, it automatically loads the latest episodes and deletes watched episodes.
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:48 am
Thanks Goebbels for clearing that up :)
I like that pausing thing too. That’s a nice feature.
Is it up to 5 pcs ‘ever’? or does that mean ‘5 at once?’ - what I mean is, are these machines ‘registered’ with the device, a bit like limiting the pcs you can plug an ipod in to, without wiping it?
Still. I love my Archos devices. I dont have HD yet.
Thx for the info
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:51 am
First as you point out - if it’s not for you, it doesn’t mean it’s not for everyone else either nor that Apple shouldn’t sells something that doesn’t comform to 100% of your needs - just buy something else …
BTw, I can listen to OGG in itunes with a plug in - I presume if it shows up in itunes, it can “seen” by AppleTV itunes?
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:58 am
@59 “the Cubs have been awful since my antenna went up (2/2004), so not all has been good”
Careful! You may end up being another Steve Bartman. Take that antenna down so the Cubs start winning!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 pm
kosso, the Source list only stores 5 PC “names.” (Why the limitation, I don’t know. But it’s aimed to be a simple way of aggregating the potential large and disparate libraries of a household and preserving that list for easy, family use.)
That does not prevent you from linking to the libraries of any random PC on the network nor is there any “registration”.
(Whether you can avoid the “Source” list entirely or need to bump one entry or leave entries open, I haven’t determined yet. (I’m working off research and what I’ve heard/seen from a couple of friends.))
jbelkin, no. This is not a safe presumption. It is safe to presume that many are already working on the hacks, and that within a few weeks/months there will be several simple installs to enable it.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm
“Careful! You may end up being another Steve Bartman. Take that antenna down so the Cubs start winning!!” –Comment by LayZ
Hey– I’ve thought about it! Man– it’s another spring training with Prior doing his best Fidrych impersonation. BTW, I was on a flight with Bartman maybe a year and a half ago.
Back to the Apple– can the box stream from a PC that doesn’t have a user logged in? That is, does a user have to be logged in on the PC and iTunes running in order to stream to the Apple TV?
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Okay, I have clarification on the “Sources” list. It has a list of the 5 PCs you add to the “Sources” list if you choose, another option to find New iTunes Libraries (which allows you to link to any PC it finds on the currently active network (which you can also change), and an option to de-couple the syncing or choose a new main PC for syncing. (At setup and through this last option, you can avoid syncing entirely and just stream).
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:38 pm
[...] Scoble made a quick comment about AppleTV, that Apple in general tries to underpromise and [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:49 pm
A pic of the Apple TV in action would have been more effective and useful.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:50 pm
iTunes does not need to be running, but iTunes must be present. (An iTunes Library must be generated with the available content; content not added to the library does not appear (and unsupported content even if the content is supported via QuickTime and/or additional codec support does not appear either even if it is in the iTunes library).)
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Can’t wait to get my hands on it. I have had something similar for a while now (Dreambox) but the design and software on Apple TV make it irresistible.
March 23rd, 2007 at 12:51 pm
“It doesn’t have feature X, Y, or Z, which this thing that costs the same||less||more does.”
Same things said about the iPhone. Same things said about the iPod.
360’s nice, no doubt, but does no one ever /learn/ from the past?
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:09 pm
“By the way Jeremy, in this case, the web sites you linked to are hardly valid.”
Uh..those links are to Alvy Ray Smith’s website. Let’s see, whose opinion about TV should I go with here…a dude on Scoble’s comments, or ALVY FUCKING RAY SMITH’S :p
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Robert, how does GETV look on it? I’m curious since I started putting out 640×480 versions to accommodate Apple TV. Lemme know.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Eddie: I’ll check that out tonight. Basically if it plays on iTunes it should work great.
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Help a newbie videoblogger….. Does this mean I should no longer compress my files….. I am concerned that my 15mb 4 min files will look terrible via appletv…
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:41 pm
#80 - glad to see a few ppl check sources. :)
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:42 pm
360?? are you guys for real? i have one and there’s no way i’m putting that in my bedroom WAY to noisy!!
March 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 pm
I have a Mac Mini (Intel Core Duo) with an internal HD of 120 GB and an external LaCie HD that sits underneath with the same footprint as the Mini adding another 240 GB. This Mini has 1 GB RAM and can display resolutions of 1200, 1440 1536. In addition, it is hooked up to my cable box via an analog to digital video converter. With free software (Vidi) I can record movies and tv shows. It is also hooked into my 7.1 reciever via the digital audio out port. My 60 GB iPod is connected to the receiver. It also serves as my wireless server for my house. It is quiet, does not really get hot and runs 24 hours a day. It is so small that it takes up little space in my tv/music center. I can (if I wanted to) install Vista or XP with Bootcamp to run Windows games (maybe some day). I can watch DVDs, make DVDs. But I keep my movies in MPEG4 format. With the right codecs for Quicktime it can play most video formats. So the best desktop box is a Mini.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Robert,
You hit the nail on the head–Apple TV is the big bang for independent content! Video podcasts, independent films, shorts, how-to videos, training videos. This is opening the door of distribution all the way to the family room.
My site, http://www.hungryflix.com, offers downloads of independent films for the iPod. We are now working on offering higher res for Apple TV.
This is very exciting.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:08 pm
I think Tivo is cool, and AppleTV is cool. Both let you access Internet videos on your TV, but…
(1) Price for Content: AppleTV controls the iTunes store, so you are going to pay for seeing video. Tivo has a hefty monthly fee and will be charging for premium content as well.
(2) Live Video: neither support live video, so forget about breaking news, sports, live shows.
Regarding the other solutions, the media extenders, they are great for technies, but lame for the average joe (I know, you are a techie). I know no one that has had success with a PC connected to their computer that was not techie, really.
Solution… well, I have been working on one, the StreamSurfer. It is a device that has a one time fee, costs $299 and lets you access WM video from the net. We hope to add Flash video to it in the coming weeks to, so users can watch their YouTube video, etc.
Anyway, if you are interested in learning more about it, or have any ideas, please let me know, you can find me through http://www.streamsurfer.tv.
Of course, I am a techie, have a Mac and a PC, and look forward to getting an AppleTV unit as well.
Cheers!
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:08 pm
kvel: you need to compress your videos to make sure your distribution costs don’t get too high (your users might stop downloading if your files get too big). But, you might offer two versions: one high res, one low. That’s what Rocketboom does.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:12 pm
360?? are you guys for real? i have one and there’s no way i’m putting that in my bedroom WAY to noisy!!
While playing in the bedroom is great, the Xbox 360 is the WRONG kind.
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:13 pm
“By the way Jeremy, in this case, the web sites you linked to are hardly valid.”
Alvy Ray Smith not valid re explaining resolutions?
Shakes head.
March 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Apple INC., The company that offers more. People can complain about the APPLE TV, however, most are missing the point. Apple Inc. has created a machine that in the coming years will GROW with software updates and hard-drive space. Just think, at this point Apple is getting into the living room and offering all your media except games. Nevertheless, if you know this company as I know it, there is many possibilities that apple could do with this machine. They mostly want go into gaming, because the gaming business sucks. Look at the numbers. Xbox 360 does not carry a big profit for Microsoft! Some here have posted that they have this and that in their living room. Great!!! However, some of us like to have clutter free homes with no wires running everywhere and machines that run. Again, if I know apple, this is just the start to something BIGGER.
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:19 pm
While playing in the bedroom is great, the Xbox 360 is the WRONG kind.
Remember, this is coming from a newlywed.
Give him a couple years : ).
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Heh
not a newlywed yet :-)
Besides, I was married once before, and the whole slowdown thing? Never really happened :-P
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:58 pm
[...] Apple TV rocks I bought an Apple TV tonight. I’ve watched Ask a Ninja, Rocketboom, my show, and Ze Frank on it so far. Works as […] [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
War of the Scobles!
http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/5239
March 23rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
[...] I can’t believe that he took the time away from watching iTV to do it because he says “Apple TV rocks“. He bought one, set it up and he indicated that IT WAS [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:27 pm
“Oh and you don’t need a Windows MCE box to send video to your 360 either. There’s software out there that will allow you to send media of all kinds from your Mac.”
Yeah, but I have to convert all the media to WMV first. Thank you for giving me the impression that there was an alternate solution and launcing me head first into a pile of crap. Did you do this on purpose, Alex? This is *almost* like saying, ‘You can send video to your 360 from your Mac so forget the Apple TV!’ and then giving us a link to Boot Camp.
Boooooooo! I say.
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:06 pm
I think what people don’t get is that Appleis taking the power of computers and making them into appliances. Need to wash your dishes? Put them in and a press button. Need to make toast? Put your bread in a toaster and press a lever. This is the secret to why Apple is so successful, they bring teh appliance philosophy to items no one else does. Therefore, yes Apple TV is not for everyone; but for a large slice of people who want functionality without hassle or complexity, their products are king. as far as functionality, Steve learned long ago (circa the Newton) that no matter how cool and full featured you can make an item, the general public is not ready for that when a new product is launched. Start with a simple, reliable concept that fills a niche better than anyone else; once you get critical mass add features. Look at the iPod: there is really nothing it does today it couldn’t have done 6 years ago. But from music, we now have games, video etc. If anyone thinks the iPhone is not going to change the game too, they are sadly mistaken. Mark the words of the naysayers and come back in three years to see them all retracting their previous positions. DTM
March 23rd, 2007 at 8:31 pm
[...] TV - This Podcaster’s RevuePosted on 7:28 pm by Paul Colligan So, Scoble likes the Apple TV - surprise, surprise, [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:39 pm
@91 and @97: Wait! You mean to tell me we have a hack Computerworld blogger questioning the reliability of the co-founder of Pixar, and recognized expert in graphics? Incredible! That’s the blogosphere for ya! Anyone with a blog can pawn themselves off as an authority.
March 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 pm
@99
Good point except I assume you realize that Jobs had nothing to do with the Newton; that is was the brainchild of John Sculley; that Jobs killed the project shortly after his return to Apple in 1996/7.
There’s nothing wrong with your point! It just bears emphasizing that the Newton is NOT a Jobs creation and probably embodies both the best and worst qualities of Apple in the non-Jobs period.
March 23rd, 2007 at 10:00 pm
@101 yep , it seems everyone and their brother can have their own blog.
: )
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Apple vs Microsoft
Software vs Hardware
Now Apple is taking the advantage, do you think Microsoft will stay behind or will cross the line to do what I think they will do, and how they will do it?
What do you think?
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:28 pm
[...] Scoble says he likes AppleTV. I like his assessment, especially since he also has a Xbox 360 connected to his HD display [...]
March 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 pm
This XBox 360 vs. Apple TV debate focuses on the merits of the two systems and largely ignores issues of brand recognition and brand loyalty.
Nearly all the enthusiasm garnered by Apple TV results from people instantly thinking, “If Apple’s doing it, it’s going to work.”
“Work” in several senses: the device will work (it will do what Apple says it will do); the system/network/store/formats etc. will work (because Apple has earned consumer and analyst trust with iPod/iTunes) and, finally, the SCHEME will work (since Apple has proven that they know what’s around the corner, in the near future, in these kinds of volatile markets).
At a certain point Microsoft has to face the fact that customers and Wall Street don’t really trust them to get anything right. It’s not just the clumsy market positioning or the sudden strategy reversals (like PlaysForSure); it’s a twenty-year history of corporate moves that, taken together, create a composite image of a shifty, bullying company that makes extremely complicated and confusing products and services that constantly change.
A person in a store with a credit card looks at Apple TV and thinks, “What are the chances, at some point down the line, that I’m going to feel like I got screwed if I buy this?”
Then they think, “It’s Apple,” and that soothes their fears.
You can list all the superior XBox features you want. But it doesn’t matter. At a certain point consumers just trust that Apple logo to shield them from industry stupidity, strategic mis-steps, and even their own ignorance of the technology. Microsoft’s brand conveys none of these qualities.
It’s the reason the Zune was conspicuously lacking any Microsoft branding. This could be the biggest problem Microsoft faces. In fact, it’s a fatal flaw, at this point.
March 24th, 2007 at 5:39 am
Apple TV users will probably be forced to use iTunes so I definitely won’t buy it.
March 24th, 2007 at 6:18 am
Scob, you said you’ve got one how much did u pay for that? Got coupons?
March 24th, 2007 at 6:41 am
[...] Apple TV rocks « Scobleizer - Tech Geek Blogger Scoble likes the Apple TV. This is exactly how I would use it. To watch video podcasts - e.g. ScobleShow - on my big-screen TV without messing around with a bunch of wires. (tags: appletv apple) [...]
March 24th, 2007 at 7:06 am
I am happy you finally got an Apple TV! I am glad that it does such a good job. I am not getting an AppleTV yet becuase I haven’t bothered with getting a HDTV yet.
I found a “work around” solution. Monster Cables makes a really good cord that allows you to hook your iPod to your TV set. It allows you to use your S-Video, which looks wonderful, as well as your audio and video AV cables (red-yellow-white). Very durable and high quality! I have a 27 inch SDTV so all my SNL reruns look beautiful, expeciallly in widescreen mode. My wife’s favorite movie that she bought at the iTunes store, Coyote Ugly, was amazingly better than DVD quality. If the rumors hold true, we’ll all be encoding video in 1080p or 1080i on our macs soon. Enjoy your AppleTV! For the rest of us, go get some Monster Cables! And don’t forget your AC plug that you can hook a USB cord to so you can keep your Video iPods nice and charged up! I probably said more here than on my own blog so I had better say goodbye!
March 24th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Like many others on here… I just don’t get Apple TV, especially considering the fact that it’s completely over-priced.
Sure, Apple makes some good stuff, but here are the ways they completely screwed up:
1. No volume control on the remote.
2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content but iTunes content is only 480p. Gee, how great is the fact that Apple TV does 1080i when you can only get iTunes content at SD quality? Upscaling is not a substitute for true HD.
3. No photo streaming? Seriously? Robert, how can you even begin to praise Apple TV without photo streaming? I thought you and Thomas Hawk were big into your Photo Walking thing. How can you accept a product that ignores photos?
4. Over-priced.
5. No cables.
6. Integrated wifi. For some odd reason people consider this a plus but I have a wired home, I don’t need wifi and I hate the fact that I’m forced to pay for it. I much prefer the XBox 360 modular approach, if you need WiFi, buy it, otherwise stick with the ethernet. I don’t feel like footing the bill for something I don’t need.
7. No management via the interface. You are actually OK with using your LAPTOP to purchase/manage iTunes content? I can just imagine having to explain to my wife that when she wants to purchase a new movie she needs to drag out her laptop from office upstairs.
Apple has completely failed to make a product for the living room consumer segment. Apple TV is a nice toy for those that hand over their money to the iTunes store but that’s about it.
March 24th, 2007 at 10:03 am
@Shawn Oster (111):
I refer you to my comment (106) above.
March 24th, 2007 at 10:28 am
[...] mean that in a bad, or snarky way. It’ s just an observation, which struck me when Scoble bought an Apple TV as soon as it was released. He has the cash to do it, so he gets to play with it right away, and [...]
March 24th, 2007 at 10:58 am
@111… let me ffer a rebuttal.
1. No volume control on the remote.
You already have to use that other remote to set your TV source. So what’s the big deal that you’ll have to also use it for the volume?
2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content but iTunes content is only 480p.
Not only does your bias show, your ignorance does too. It’s not limited to what the iTunes _Store_ offers, it’s (somewhat) limited to what iTunes _plays_. Software exists to take your HD content and make it playable in iTunes. ANd hardware hacks are already cropping up to play virtually any codex too.
3. No photo streaming? Seriously?
For now. Apple has already said they’ll have that working shortly.
4. Over-priced.
Any yet, its still quite a bit less than your so-called “better solution”. Oh, and quieter, with a much smaller footprint.
5. No cables.
Since there’s about 3 different ways to cable up a HDTV, I prefer making my own decision as to what I need. Since I hold stock in AAPL- as I’ve had for 26 months - I prefer they don’t ship unneeded cables. Keeps the cost down, and the profits up.
Speaking of holding AAPL and profits, how’s MSFT been doing the last 5 years? How much profit is XBox bringing in? Oh wait, that’s right….
6. Integrated wifi. For some odd reason people consider this a plus but I have a wired home, I don’t need wifi and I hate the fact that I’m forced to pay for it. I much prefer the XBox 360 modular approach, if you need WiFi, buy it, otherwise stick with the ethernet. I don’t feel like footing the bill for something I don’t need.
Two things.
First, you chastise aTV for the lack of cables. Yet you find the lack of WiFi a feature of XBox? Interesting take.
Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV.
7. No management via the interface. You are actually OK with using your LAPTOP to purchase/manage iTunes content? I can just imagine having to explain to my wife that when she wants to purchase a new movie she needs to drag out her laptop from office upstairs.
Talk about people who don’t get it. Wow.
First, that’s what the WiFi is for. She doesn’t have to drag out her laptop from the office. She simply has to go upstairs to it, make her purchase, and sync it up via that WiFi.
Second, that WiFi (or ethernet, it uses either) means that aTV is already hooked to the internet. Apple has already said the device runs a version of OS X and that they’ll have software update. Is it possible that they might allow you to purchase iTunes content in the future?
Third, let’s debunk that manage iTunes content part of your statement right now. You manage your aTV content through the remote. Period.
Fourth. Your so-called better solution. Purchasing content. Hmph.
Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on.
Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways. First, each movie is available for rental only during a several-week window–then it’s gone. Second, you have to start watching the movie within two weeks of downloading it. Third, once you start watching it, you have to finish watching within 24 hours.
In each case, the movie is lost forever if you’re tardy.
Yeah, now THAT’S a much better solution.
March 24th, 2007 at 11:00 am
@111. I always find it funny when geeks and nerds seem to think the represent the general populace. You seem to be making the assumption that most normal people have hard wired net taps in every room in their home. I contend you are the exception to most normal people. Most normal people have ONE net tap running into their home. (Moreover, for a high percentage of people, that “net tap” is also their phone line.).
Are you also saying that when looking at the two options, just from a design perspective people would prefer the loud, clunky XBOX360 device sitting in their family room (or even bedroom)? I will concede you point about lack UI access from the device, and the lack of photo streaming.
No cables? Last I checked the XBOX360 console didn’t come with HDMI or component cables, so that’s a bit of a wash wouldn’t you say?
March 24th, 2007 at 11:16 am
I wanted to buy one for my dad for his birthday, but, widescreen only. He has a nice tube television that is 4:3 and it *might* work. Bad.
I’m a geek, I have an XBOX, a media center, and maybe an Apple TV. I *could* but probably *won’t* ever use the XBOX for anything other than gaming.
At least Apple has that ipod-for-TV spin, but if we can’t stream, not sure how that plays out.
Then again, DirecTV/DISH (which people have has a built in recorder) is a tough competitor. Getting dozens of components could be annoying, yet we’ll do it.
We can look at the Apple TV in isolation all day long– that’s what geeks do so well– but we might miss how the world works outside of our sphere.
March 24th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Great discussion - I always enjoy discussions that more or less boil down to Apple vs Microsoft. Reason? Because whatever the question is, the answer is in their mentality. And #99 puts it very accurately. To this end, it’s amusing to see some people bringing up resolution specs as if it is the one fatal flaw of aTV that will sink it. Again, can I refer you to #99, #106 and specifically first part of #52.
I will never own a 360 for reasons that are irrelevant to this post although some have been highlighted in previous posts, and the idea of streaming my contents to my TV via wifi is an attractive model. Incidentally, it is surprising how #111 doesn’t seem to mind wires - if you are a “geek”, you should be well aware of the problems with wire overload (behind my TV is like a den of thin, black serpents). If you are not a geek, then you ought to enjoy the no clutter approach. Anyway well done Dave for a great rebuttal (#114).
March 24th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
@106: “You can list all the superior XBox features you want. But it doesn’t matter. At a certain point consumers just trust that Apple logo to shield them from industry stupidity, strategic mis-steps, and even their own ignorance of the technology. Microsoft’s brand conveys none of these qualities.”
I’m the biggest Mac geek there is, but even I don’t see MS in such black-and-white terms. For example, while overall I think Microsoft’s corporate image is tarnished in exactly the way you suggest, I am aware that they have bet big on the X-Box and this technology is not going to be abandoned anytime soon, as I think most other people are too. X-Box purchasers seem to me to be rational (though I admit I wouldn’t buy one, myself, I’m stil saving for a PS3/Blu-ray home upgrade. But those who think the X-Box renders the Apple TV unnecessary don’t seem to me to be so rational.
@111, who said: “2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content”.
Gee, let’s see … the Apple TV’s playable video formats: H.264, protected MPEG4, and UNprotected MPEG4. Notice something about two of these formats? They are leading edge, even beyond the leading edge, and they aren’t controlled by Apple.
Now, X-Box’s playable video formats: WMV and MPEG2. MPEG2?!?! Gee, thanks, Microsoft.
I’m glad that I sparked to do this research by these vaunted claims I read here because now I know exactly why nobody I know with an X-Box uses it for video.
And before anyone tells me that you can hack the X-Box to play more, I just read that you can hack the Apple TV to play EVERYTHING so you’ve got no advantage to press with me here.
Out of the box, it is very clear that Apple TV is the far superior compressed video playback solution, if you consider the whole channel (i.e. am I going to want to store things in these formats so that they can fit the conditions at the end of the channel?)
Now why doesn’t somebody support XviD out of the box and blow the doors off both of these idiots? And an XviD streamer would literally NOT HAVE DO TO A SINGLE OTHER THING TO BE ENORMOUSLY SUCCESSFUL, so make it simple, stupids, and don’t shoot yourselves in the foot like Netgear!
This is what Apple does right. They figure out what is X, as in the what is the minimum feature set required to fulfill a desire or a need, and then they view any form of X + Y as a drawback, not a feature. In other words they look very hard at the optimum feature-to-complexity part of the curve, and they’re smart enough not to pat themselves on the back for climbing out of it.
March 24th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
For example, while overall I think Microsoft’s corporate image is tarnished in exactly the way you suggest, I am aware that they have bet big on the X-Box and this technology is not going to be abandoned anytime soon, as I think most other people are too.
There is a list as long as you like of “tech that won’t be abandoned anytime soon” because the company is “betting on it big”
OpenDoc
The Newton
Cross-platform Active X
Plays4Sure
Cross-Platform NT
etc.
Apple, Microsoft, IBM, all of them have, and will continue to abandon things if they see the need. To think anything else is silly.
March 24th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
cool… pity one cannot see apple tv in romania…
March 24th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
[...] I can’t believe that he took the time away from watching iTV to do it because he says “Apple TV rocks“. He bought one, set it up and he indicated that IT WAS [...]
March 24th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
if you want to convert dvds, video to apple tv..see this site for help. http://www.dvdtoappletv.org/
March 24th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
“Apple, Microsoft, IBM, all of them have, and will continue to abandon things if they see the need. To think anything else is silly.”
Strawman, meet John Welch.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t abandon it if they saw the need. But there clearly ARE degrees of commitment to a product (to try to contradict that would be just as silly as your comical version of my argument, wouldn’t it?) This is a fact that can’t be denied.
I don’t think Microsoft will stick with the X-Box for a while because they say they will (they say that about everything — but just talk isn’t “betting big”). I think Microsoft will stick with the X-Box for a while because it’s obviously IN THEIR INTEREST.
In other words, I don’t trust Microsoft, but I trust Microsoft to BE Microsoft. The X-Box will be around for a while yet.
March 24th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
@Jordon (106)
I’ll agree that the worst thing going for Microsoft is Microsoft brand itself BUT the XBox is actually one of the few areas that has escaped the blackhole that is “just another crappy Microsoft product”.
I know Mac and Linux users as well as non-tech users that love their XBox 360. I’ve often overheard people say “XBox is the one thing Microsoft has done right” or “If they put J Allard in charge of more things maybe Microsoft could create something useful.”
The real issue isn’t people being turned off of using the XBox 360 as a media extender because of it being a Microsoft product, it’s the fact that Microsoft hasn’t done anything to promote the media experience side of the 360. Unless you actually own a 360 most people don’t know everything you can do with it.
Personally I think they’re holding off on the whole “XBox as a home entertainment hub” marketing until they get IPTV nailed down. Then they’ll release a version that is marketed towards the living room media segment vs. the gaming segment.
Perhaps the biggest reason I get so frustrated on this issue is that I’m perhaps a more tech savy user than that average consumer, so I don’t need a brand to make me feel good about a purchase. I could care less if something is from a name brand or some generic, no-name, white-box ACME brand. I have the skill set determine if a product is good based on it’s actual merits, not on slick marketing, but I do understand that if tech isn’t someone’s speciality they will end up putting more stock in a name.
March 24th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
@LayZ (115)
Actually I know I’m not the norm when it comes to having a hardwired house and I’m always very aware that I’m not the normal consumer segment. Heck, the only reason I have drops all over the house is simply because we bought new and that’s the new thing these days, every phone jack is also an ethernet port. I was suprised as hell, but pleasently so, to find a patch panel in my closet. Every new house and townhouse in my area has the same setup, comes stock.
That actually wasn’t my point though, it was that it was nice to have the option with the 360 vs. having to eat the cost regardless if you needed it or not.
March 24th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
@124,
Sure, that’s a good point, but I think it loses some of its potency once you get beyond the realm of pure gaming and into the “living room media hub” realm, where nearly all non-tech customers and even many computer-savvy people suddenly become very confused, very fast.
It was only a few years ago that the computer was on your desk for work and the VCR or DVD player was in the living room connected to your television and next to your analog cable box and your stereo with your racks of CDs and it all made sense. The biggest hurdle was memorizing which remote did what.
Now the industry is asking everyone to abandon all of that, and replace it with…what?
Basically, with a murkily-defined, bewildering set of options that has them suddenly worried about DRM; about file formats; about NTSC vs. HD; about Plays4Sure vs. FairPlay; about portable devices and their games/songs/movies/ringtones/voice messages/emails/trailers/blogs/rss/photographs/home video/podcasts. Go the wrong direction, buy the wrong expensive machine, and you could end up with a media library that doesn’t work or is the wrong format or won’t play in a week or doesn’t have the right subtitles or languages or DVD region capabilites.
My point is that even “we” (geeks) have to really concentrate and keep track. I pay very close attention, and I’m still stuck with an entire season of LOST at 320×240 that Apple won’t replace with the new versions, because that’s not how it works…and I’m the one holding Apple up as one of the EASY choices.
It’s easy to miss how frightening and confusing all this is. Getting a televsion program from the internet onto a television through an XBox is something that would make nearly anyone’s head hurt, even though (tragically) it might be the best solution.
(P.S. It’s “Jordan” with an “a”)
March 24th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
@ DaveD (114)
Ohh, I love rebuttals :)
- “You alread