Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

April 9, 2007 By

I wish Dave Winer hadn’t brought Maryam’s personal conversations with him out into public sphere, but now that he has, what she was hurt about the most about how Dave dealt with her is that Dave didn’t react as a friend to her — it wasn’t just about what was written on his blog either. She is calm about the issue now and has written about the week of anger, but not the conversation with Dave (she hasn’t yet seen Dave’s post this morning, I wanted to write from the heart before she saw it).

When someone calls you, and is hurt, and is a friend your first impulse should be “how can I help?” When she called Dave she called as a friend, not as a blogger.

Dave reacted to her as a blogger instead of as a friend and now Dave took an emotional conversation (she was crying and VERY hurt by what had been said about her) done over phone into the public sphere.

Also, when she first called Dave he didn’t have up some of the other explanations of what had happened, nor the explanations that he had been personally attacked by this mob for quite some time, only this line: “On this one, I take the side of the mean kids, because no one else is, and I have a soft spot for people who are being attacked by a mob, no matter how pathetic they are.”

That made Maryam believe that Dave was taking sides and she didn’t care about the nuance of the civics lesson that Dave was giving her at that time. Keep in mind Maryam sees Dave as a friend (he’s been over here, eaten at the house, spent lots of time with us, etc).

Dave’s thoughts publicly are good ones — trying to calm down the mob — but the way he went about it at first did cause his friends who were dealing with a world of hurt conflict and didn’t come across as a listening ear. He told Maryam he didn’t care about her, saying that she has tons of other people who would worry about her feelings. Now he took that conversation into the public sphere, which makes it very difficult for me (I hate being between my wife and my friend in public).

I chose a different path: to take a week off to reflect what had happened and also to listen to other people’s voices and to help my friends (and family) deal.

I’m still hurt by the events, though and Maryam has learned some harsh lessons (including one today with Dave’s post — be careful about talking with friends who have blogs).

Filed Under: 1

http://burningbird.net/ Shelley

Think about this — I expressed my opinion and whether it was right or not, it was genuine. Robert had a right to reject such an opinion, but at least I would hope he would respect that it was genuine.

I’ve since had John, Robert, and Don treating my opinion in a humorous manner, deriding such, making fun of it, and me.

Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?

Typical. Hypocrites.
http://burningbird.net Shelley

Think about this — I expressed my opinion and whether it was right or not, it was genuine. Robert had a right to reject such an opinion, but at least I would hope he would respect that it was genuine.

I’ve since had John, Robert, and Don treating my opinion in a humorous manner, deriding such, making fun of it, and me.

Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?

Typical. Hypocrites.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Shelley: ______.

That’s all I have to say. You’ve effectively silenced me. Congratulations.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Shelley: ______.

That’s all I have to say. You’ve effectively silenced me. Congratulations.
anon

“Oh, Don, don’t you know that the blogger’s code of conduct says you are allowed to be demeaning toward Robert Scoble, but not to Maryam?”

That’s why you’re such a good blogger. You have a thick skin.

Well, that and you allow anonymous comments.
anon

“Oh, Don, don’t you know that the blogger’s code of conduct says you are allowed to be demeaning toward Robert Scoble, but not to Maryam?”

That’s why you’re such a good blogger. You have a thick skin.

Well, that and you allow anonymous comments.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Anon >You have a thick skin.

It’s not as thick as I’d like.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Anon >You have a thick skin.

It’s not as thick as I’d like.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

John, stop demeaning Shelley in my comments.

Dude, I’d be truly frightened of what it would mean were I to think I can speak for her in any situation up to and including “what is the acceleration of gravity on Earth”. If nothing else it would mean I’ve had *far* too much contact with her

Actually, if I’m going to demean someone, I’ll not be even slightly subtle about it. Why waste time.

@30 “She didn’t say the call was private, and it was about a blog post, which is very much a public thing”

With all due respect, but aren’t phone conversation between one person and another assumed to be private, even if the topic of conversation is a “public” topic? Maybe in your world every interaction you have with other humans are assumed to be public and thus show up on your blog, but most civilized people show more respect for their “friends” and don’t share private conversations with the world.

When you talk to someone like Winer, whose life revolves around their blog on a constant basis, you should assume that everything you say is going up on their site, unless you explicitly ask them not to post it, and you should probably ask every time you say anything you don’t want on the Intarweb. Getting mad at Winer for posting stuff you tell him is like getting mad at a scorpion for stinging you.

Shelley: ______.

That’s all I have to say. You’ve effectively silenced me. Congratulations.

Maybe you Baba Looey, but I just got back from class, I’m all warmed up.

Think about this — I expressed my opinion and whether it was right or not, it was genuine. Robert had a right to reject such an opinion, but at least I would hope he would respect that it was genuine.

When did “genuine” become synonymous for “treated like the word of the Almighty”. So far, the only time you seem to get your hackles up is when people have the temerity to either do shit differently than you would or (HORRORS) disagree with you. Well guess what, the world doesn’t exist either at or for your pleasure, nor do we all sit around and say “What would Shelley let us do” in all situations. Damn, did you have to get your doors remodeled to fit that ego through it?

I’ve since had John, Robert, and Don treating my opinion in a humorous manner, deriding such, making fun of it, and me.

No Shelley, i was not making fun of you. If i was making fun of you, I’d have been real damned obvious about it. What I was doing was calling “bullshit” on your line of crap that somehow, Robert speaking up for, and about his wife is demeaning. Note: “speaking up for“. That is not in fact the same as “speaking for”. The “up” makes it different. Somewhere along the line you got real confused about the concept of “letting someone fight their own battles”, and decided it meant “If anyone takes up for me without my approval they are somehow belittling me.” If that’s what you believe, hey party on Garth, but it speaks to some serious insecurities in your own self-image when it comes to handling conflict, aka, “methinks thou dost protest too much”. I find your…enthusiasm in insisting that Robert demeaned Maryam in this post impressive. Well, more de- than im-, but definitely pressive. Seems to me you might be projecting a bit.

Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?

Lord, here we go. I was hoping you wouldn’t resort to such lame tactics, but I’ve been wrong before. Guess what, Kathy Sierra getting raked by a couple of prats is not a license to kill for you, or any other woman. You want to state something that IMO, reeks of bullshit writ large, and you want to walk around with the whole “I’m Shelley Powers, I fear no one” schtick, then you need to accept that here and there, someone’s gonna say “Yo, you’re fulla shit on this one.” And I’m saying, point blank, you’re fulla shit on this one. Totally and completely. But what do you do when someone says that, and worst of all, refuses to back down when you get loud and in their face about it? Oh, NOW, it’s yet another example of misogny in the “blogosphere”. That’s just pathetic in principle and use, and I’m honestly a bit bummed that you’d stoop to that. It’s only slightly better than saying “You can’t argue with me, I’M A GIRL”. WTF, you having two X chromosomes mean your opinion gets a free pass, and any opinion from a Y chromosome is automatically wrong?

Typical. Hypocrites.

Words from an expert in the field, at least in this post. You have the right to any opinion you want, however, that is not the same as the right to have everyone else in hearing range shut up and take it as gospel. Get over yourself and your perceived privileges of gender.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

John, stop demeaning Shelley in my comments.

Dude, I’d be truly frightened of what it would mean were I to think I can speak for her in any situation up to and including “what is the acceleration of gravity on Earth”. If nothing else it would mean I’ve had *far* too much contact with her

Actually, if I’m going to demean someone, I’ll not be even slightly subtle about it. Why waste time.

@30 “She didn’t say the call was private, and it was about a blog post, which is very much a public thing”

With all due respect, but aren’t phone conversation between one person and another assumed to be private, even if the topic of conversation is a “public” topic? Maybe in your world every interaction you have with other humans are assumed to be public and thus show up on your blog, but most civilized people show more respect for their “friends” and don’t share private conversations with the world.

When you talk to someone like Winer, whose life revolves around their blog on a constant basis, you should assume that everything you say is going up on their site, unless you explicitly ask them not to post it, and you should probably ask every time you say anything you don’t want on the Intarweb. Getting mad at Winer for posting stuff you tell him is like getting mad at a scorpion for stinging you.

Shelley: ______.

That’s all I have to say. You’ve effectively silenced me. Congratulations.

Maybe you Baba Looey, but I just got back from class, I’m all warmed up.

Think about this — I expressed my opinion and whether it was right or not, it was genuine. Robert had a right to reject such an opinion, but at least I would hope he would respect that it was genuine.

When did “genuine” become synonymous for “treated like the word of the Almighty”. So far, the only time you seem to get your hackles up is when people have the temerity to either do shit differently than you would or (HORRORS) disagree with you. Well guess what, the world doesn’t exist either at or for your pleasure, nor do we all sit around and say “What would Shelley let us do” in all situations. Damn, did you have to get your doors remodeled to fit that ego through it?

I’ve since had John, Robert, and Don treating my opinion in a humorous manner, deriding such, making fun of it, and me.

No Shelley, i was not making fun of you. If i was making fun of you, I’d have been real damned obvious about it. What I was doing was calling “bullshit” on your line of crap that somehow, Robert speaking up for, and about his wife is demeaning. Note: “speaking up for“. That is not in fact the same as “speaking for”. The “up” makes it different. Somewhere along the line you got real confused about the concept of “letting someone fight their own battles”, and decided it meant “If anyone takes up for me without my approval they are somehow belittling me.” If that’s what you believe, hey party on Garth, but it speaks to some serious insecurities in your own self-image when it comes to handling conflict, aka, “methinks thou dost protest too much”. I find your…enthusiasm in insisting that Robert demeaned Maryam in this post impressive. Well, more de- than im-, but definitely pressive. Seems to me you might be projecting a bit.

Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?

Lord, here we go. I was hoping you wouldn’t resort to such lame tactics, but I’ve been wrong before. Guess what, Kathy Sierra getting raked by a couple of prats is not a license to kill for you, or any other woman. You want to state something that IMO, reeks of bullshit writ large, and you want to walk around with the whole “I’m Shelley Powers, I fear no one” schtick, then you need to accept that here and there, someone’s gonna say “Yo, you’re fulla shit on this one.” And I’m saying, point blank, you’re fulla shit on this one. Totally and completely. But what do you do when someone says that, and worst of all, refuses to back down when you get loud and in their face about it? Oh, NOW, it’s yet another example of misogny in the “blogosphere”. That’s just pathetic in principle and use, and I’m honestly a bit bummed that you’d stoop to that. It’s only slightly better than saying “You can’t argue with me, I’M A GIRL”. WTF, you having two X chromosomes mean your opinion gets a free pass, and any opinion from a Y chromosome is automatically wrong?

Typical. Hypocrites.

Words from an expert in the field, at least in this post. You have the right to any opinion you want, however, that is not the same as the right to have everyone else in hearing range shut up and take it as gospel. Get over yourself and your perceived privileges of gender.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Anon >You have a thick skin.

It’s not as thick as I’d like.

Thick skin is the result of frequent, rather brutal combat, verbally or otherwise. For my part, I’m glad you DON’T have as thick a skin as someone like me. It’s damned handy to have, but getting it sucks diseased donkey dick.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Anon >You have a thick skin.

It’s not as thick as I’d like.

Thick skin is the result of frequent, rather brutal combat, verbally or otherwise. For my part, I’m glad you DON’T have as thick a skin as someone like me. It’s damned handy to have, but getting it sucks diseased donkey dick.
Mr. Robinson

Ah, another episode in “As The Blog Turns”.
I don’t know whether to laugh or yawn.

P.S.
Welch, shut up and let other people get a word in edge-wise.
Mr. Robinson

Ah, another episode in “As The Blog Turns”.
I don’t know whether to laugh or yawn.

P.S.
Welch, shut up and let other people get a word in edge-wise.
http://www.docuverse.com/blog/donpark/ Don Park

Shelly, I was neither deriding nor making fun of you. Are you sure there aren’t more friendly and less demeaning ways to interpret my words?
http://www.docuverse.com/blog/donpark/ Don Park

Shelly, I was neither deriding nor making fun of you. Are you sure there aren’t more friendly and less demeaning ways to interpret my words?
Pingback: ¿Código de conducta? at powerpymes.com
LayZ

@80 “When you talk to someone like Winer, whose life revolves around their blog on a constant basis, you should assume that everything you say is going up on their site, unless you explicitly ask them not to post it, and you should probably ask every time you say anything you don’t want on the Intarweb. Getting mad at Winer for posting stuff you tell him is like getting mad at a scorpion for stinging you.”

Sigh. Well, then, all the more reason for the world to continue to believe, and apparently rightly so, that geeks lack any semblance of manners and social graces.
LayZ

@80 “When you talk to someone like Winer, whose life revolves around their blog on a constant basis, you should assume that everything you say is going up on their site, unless you explicitly ask them not to post it, and you should probably ask every time you say anything you don’t want on the Intarweb. Getting mad at Winer for posting stuff you tell him is like getting mad at a scorpion for stinging you.”

Sigh. Well, then, all the more reason for the world to continue to believe, and apparently rightly so, that geeks lack any semblance of manners and social graces.
http://burningbird.net/ Shelley

John, you’re right, you weren’t making fun of me. And you’re also right in that I can be on the receiving end as well as the giving.

Robert, I apologize. I popped off when this was between you and Maryam. How one spouse treats another really shouldn’t be debated in comments. I know this, but reacted first, thought at leisure.
http://burningbird.net Shelley

John, you’re right, you weren’t making fun of me. And you’re also right in that I can be on the receiving end as well as the giving.

Robert, I apologize. I popped off when this was between you and Maryam. How one spouse treats another really shouldn’t be debated in comments. I know this, but reacted first, thought at leisure.
observer

Dave is being sued by his former friend. Lawsuits speak louder than words. Dave should remember that years ago the “angry mob” went after Hitler, he should be thankful they did.
observer

Dave is being sued by his former friend. Lawsuits speak louder than words. Dave should remember that years ago the “angry mob” went after Hitler, he should be thankful they did.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

John, you’re right, you weren’t making fun of me. And you’re also right in that I can be on the receiving end as well as the giving.

Ain’t nobody prefect and all. I’m lucky. I have a cadre of close personal friends who are quick to email me with “You’re being a dick, knock it off ya assmunch”. I highly recommend such a group, they’re really handy when the ego starts to have the bad thoughts.

You should come to Macworld, there’s free-flowing beer there. I know people you’d have fun with.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

John, you’re right, you weren’t making fun of me. And you’re also right in that I can be on the receiving end as well as the giving.

Ain’t nobody prefect and all. I’m lucky. I have a cadre of close personal friends who are quick to email me with “You’re being a dick, knock it off ya assmunch”. I highly recommend such a group, they’re really handy when the ego starts to have the bad thoughts.

You should come to Macworld, there’s free-flowing beer there. I know people you’d have fun with.
George R.

Well, I came back to this ye olde comments section to see if Mr. Scoble had any more wise words. Well, Scoble did, but he rest of you illustrate completely what I talked about in my earlier comments, which means you read them and didn’t care, or you didn’t read them at all. Which (the latter) is more likely the case and the problem with the Internet as it is, with how easy it is to either start a blog or comment on one, the:

ME ME ME LOOK AT ME I’M AWESOME syndrome.

Maybe you people didn’t get enough attention as kids, or maybe you were really unpopular at school, but now in your “adult” lives you are ready to get on this series of tubes we call the Internet and blog the FUCK out of it.

Whatever. You’re not that important.

Mr. Scoble and his wife got burned by people, people who may or may not be total and complete assholes, and they are learning from it.

Drop it.

You’re upset. You’re upset at Dave Winer. You’re upset at meankids. You’re upset at me. That’s fine. Be upset at me. Then realize I’m just some dude on a Macbook who has some time on his hands, then get out and experience something awesome. Look up some new music on the Internets. Go to your local music hall and see some band you’ve never heard of. Spend some time with your husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/weird transvestite that hangs out in your living room even though you’ve never met him. Whatever.

This is, with all the meanness and violence and stupidity, a really cool place to live, and to be. Enjoy it while you can. No matter who wins some blog war, we’re all going to be offline at some point.
George R.

Well, I came back to this ye olde comments section to see if Mr. Scoble had any more wise words. Well, Scoble did, but he rest of you illustrate completely what I talked about in my earlier comments, which means you read them and didn’t care, or you didn’t read them at all. Which (the latter) is more likely the case and the problem with the Internet as it is, with how easy it is to either start a blog or comment on one, the:

ME ME ME LOOK AT ME I’M AWESOME syndrome.

Maybe you people didn’t get enough attention as kids, or maybe you were really unpopular at school, but now in your “adult” lives you are ready to get on this series of tubes we call the Internet and blog the FUCK out of it.

Whatever. You’re not that important.

Mr. Scoble and his wife got burned by people, people who may or may not be total and complete assholes, and they are learning from it.

Drop it.

You’re upset. You’re upset at Dave Winer. You’re upset at meankids. You’re upset at me. That’s fine. Be upset at me. Then realize I’m just some dude on a Macbook who has some time on his hands, then get out and experience something awesome. Look up some new music on the Internets. Go to your local music hall and see some band you’ve never heard of. Spend some time with your husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/weird transvestite that hangs out in your living room even though you’ve never met him. Whatever.

This is, with all the meanness and violence and stupidity, a really cool place to live, and to be. Enjoy it while you can. No matter who wins some blog war, we’re all going to be offline at some point.
Bess

It is pretty hard to stay silence.

“Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens
Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things”

It is not okay to assume Tech Females are over-reacting frightened kittens. Let me share a personal real story here (short version) to illustrate the point.

###
On one summer warm Saturday in a busy street in SF downtown, I was innocent enough to offer help to a stranger because the stranger was making weird noises while leaving baggages outside the car. The stranger didn’t response my offer triggered me to go back the 2nd time to look at the car. A couple of things strange enough to make me wonder. I didn’t have prove. However, I made a wise determination on the spot – What If I am Right about the crime?

There were so many people walking on the street like business as usual. There was a couple hundreds of guests gathering for a celebration just 10 yards away from the crime spot. At least there are tens of medical doctors and tens of Ph.D.s attending the celebration at the time. Yes it is frightened to be the only one to call it with no prove.

No one was willing to help me on the street. I turned to the building security guard. The guard couldn’t do anything without prove except calling the police. At the end, the car bulgar walked away with all the baggages.

The police arrived in time to arrest the car buglar. If I didn’t ask the guard to run down the street to check the car, the car bulgar could have driven the car away. Police told me they have been questioning the same car buglar many times in the past. I was the only one witness caught the bulgar in action with strong evidence – stolen baggages. Distory Attorney called to inform me that the case was close due to my report after the trial at court.

There were so many people watching the crime occurred, did nothing and said nothing. No one want to believe a car bulgar would break into a car on a busy street.
###

Go back to Kathy Sierra case. Kathy probably gathers enough pieces to feel the danger. The trouble is What If she is Right. I would rather have Kathy protected herself screaming loud than having something tragic happening to her. Therefore I wouldn’t recommend anyone to tease her being over-reacting or attention-grabbing. Crimes happen all the times.

On the other hand, I encourage Kathy not to stop loving what she loves to do. Love will overcome hate. Passion will overcome fear.
Bess

It is pretty hard to stay silence.

“Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens
Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things”

It is not okay to assume Tech Females are over-reacting frightened kittens. Let me share a personal real story here (short version) to illustrate the point.

###
On one summer warm Saturday in a busy street in SF downtown, I was innocent enough to offer help to a stranger because the stranger was making weird noises while leaving baggages outside the car. The stranger didn’t response my offer triggered me to go back the 2nd time to look at the car. A couple of things strange enough to make me wonder. I didn’t have prove. However, I made a wise determination on the spot – What If I am Right about the crime?

There were so many people walking on the street like business as usual. There was a couple hundreds of guests gathering for a celebration just 10 yards away from the crime spot. At least there are tens of medical doctors and tens of Ph.D.s attending the celebration at the time. Yes it is frightened to be the only one to call it with no prove.

No one was willing to help me on the street. I turned to the building security guard. The guard couldn’t do anything without prove except calling the police. At the end, the car bulgar walked away with all the baggages.

The police arrived in time to arrest the car buglar. If I didn’t ask the guard to run down the street to check the car, the car bulgar could have driven the car away. Police told me they have been questioning the same car buglar many times in the past. I was the only one witness caught the bulgar in action with strong evidence – stolen baggages. Distory Attorney called to inform me that the case was close due to my report after the trial at court.

There were so many people watching the crime occurred, did nothing and said nothing. No one want to believe a car bulgar would break into a car on a busy street.
###

Go back to Kathy Sierra case. Kathy probably gathers enough pieces to feel the danger. The trouble is What If she is Right. I would rather have Kathy protected herself screaming loud than having something tragic happening to her. Therefore I wouldn’t recommend anyone to tease her being over-reacting or attention-grabbing. Crimes happen all the times.

On the other hand, I encourage Kathy not to stop loving what she loves to do. Love will overcome hate. Passion will overcome fear.
Bess

It is not okay to assume Maryam has the same open policy like Robert thinking Maryam can take the same type of attack like a guy.

It is not a secret that Maryam is pregnant in her 2nd trimester. Why frighten a pregnant lady? It is medically known that pregnant females experience drastic changes in hormone. Guys, give her a break!

It is not fair for an unborn child being frightened by these male bloggers. We’ll hold you responsible if the baby grows ugly or goes bald.

Robert Scoble: Take care of your Maryam. Give her the love she deserved. Shield her with love , away from those haters and nasty responses.

Dave Winer: Think twice before you post something about pregnant lady. The unborn baby is involved.
Bess

It is not okay to assume Maryam has the same open policy like Robert thinking Maryam can take the same type of attack like a guy.

It is not a secret that Maryam is pregnant in her 2nd trimester. Why frighten a pregnant lady? It is medically known that pregnant females experience drastic changes in hormone. Guys, give her a break!

It is not fair for an unborn child being frightened by these male bloggers. We’ll hold you responsible if the baby grows ugly or goes bald.

Robert Scoble: Take care of your Maryam. Give her the love she deserved. Shield her with love , away from those haters and nasty responses.

Dave Winer: Think twice before you post something about pregnant lady. The unborn baby is involved.
Bess

This week inTouch Weekly magazine has an Ad titled “Philanthropist or Sex Kitten” on a Relief Fund.

This time the spelling is correct! Kitten is going “main stream”.
Bess

This week inTouch Weekly magazine has an Ad titled “Philanthropist or Sex Kitten” on a Relief Fund.

This time the spelling is correct! Kitten is going “main stream”.
Tim

“Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?”

I thought they were attacking your opinion, not the fact that you are a woman. Otherwise suddenly no-one can disagree with or criticise a woman, otherwise it’s proof positive of the misogyny of the tech/blogging community? That really is a lame argument. “I’m a woman. You’re arguing with me. Therefore you hate women.” Are all men Socrates, too?

I am reminded of an exchange from a TV show called ‘Hippies’:

Jill: Don’t argue with me, Ray. I thought we agreed that arguing with women is intrinsically wrong, and a sign of oppression.
Ray: Did we?
Jill: Yes.
Ray: Was I there?
Jill: Yes.
Ray: Can I still vote?
Tim

“Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?”

I thought they were attacking your opinion, not the fact that you are a woman. Otherwise suddenly no-one can disagree with or criticise a woman, otherwise it’s proof positive of the misogyny of the tech/blogging community? That really is a lame argument. “I’m a woman. You’re arguing with me. Therefore you hate women.” Are all men Socrates, too?

I am reminded of an exchange from a TV show called ‘Hippies’:

Jill: Don’t argue with me, Ray. I thought we agreed that arguing with women is intrinsically wrong, and a sign of oppression.
Ray: Did we?
Jill: Yes.
Ray: Was I there?
Jill: Yes.
Ray: Can I still vote?
Ricky

“be careful about talking with friends who have blogs”

They’re not really friends then Robert..
Ricky

“be careful about talking with friends who have blogs”

They’re not really friends then Robert..
http://raincoaster.com/ raincoaster

It’s not a blog issue: it’s a writing issue. If you haven’t looked at a crowd and thought “ah, material!” you’re not really a writer. Shaw put it best when he said, “a true artist would kill his own grandmother for his art; the ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’ is worth any number of little old ladies.” And so it is.

While this whole episode must have been horrible to live through (and still is, obviously) it’s easy to see that good will eventually come of it. You know Dave a little better now; you can measure what you say to him or make the educated decision not to. You’ve learned that conversations that aren’t specifically agreed to be off the record aren’t. Period. You’ve learned that the assumptions you and Maryam take for granted aren’t shared by a large group of bloggers. And you’re learning just where each blogger sits in this stadium. All useful to know.

I met your wife at Northern Voice and it’s hard to believe any of the attack could really have been motivated by dislike: she’s about the nicest person in the blogosphere. But does knowing that it was a completely impersonal attack masquerading as a personal one help? I hope so. They don’t know or care about Maryam; they just picked a target with more celeb value than they have.
http://raincoaster.com/ raincoaster

It’s not a blog issue: it’s a writing issue. If you haven’t looked at a crowd and thought “ah, material!” you’re not really a writer. Shaw put it best when he said, “a true artist would kill his own grandmother for his art; the ‘Ode on a Grecian Urn’ is worth any number of little old ladies.” And so it is.

While this whole episode must have been horrible to live through (and still is, obviously) it’s easy to see that good will eventually come of it. You know Dave a little better now; you can measure what you say to him or make the educated decision not to. You’ve learned that conversations that aren’t specifically agreed to be off the record aren’t. Period. You’ve learned that the assumptions you and Maryam take for granted aren’t shared by a large group of bloggers. And you’re learning just where each blogger sits in this stadium. All useful to know.

I met your wife at Northern Voice and it’s hard to believe any of the attack could really have been motivated by dislike: she’s about the nicest person in the blogosphere. But does knowing that it was a completely impersonal attack masquerading as a personal one help? I hope so. They don’t know or care about Maryam; they just picked a target with more celeb value than they have.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Dave Winer: Think twice before you post something about pregnant lady. The unborn baby is involved.

This post is brought to you by the letters “W”, “T” and “F”.
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Dave Winer: Think twice before you post something about pregnant lady. The unborn baby is involved.

This post is brought to you by the letters “W”, “T” and “F”.
casual reader

All of you bloggers on all sides of this issue look like a bunch of kindergarten kids fighting on the playground. It is fracking hilarious! Get over yourselves.
casual reader

All of you bloggers on all sides of this issue look like a bunch of kindergarten kids fighting on the playground. It is fracking hilarious! Get over yourselves.
Jeffrey

Winer writes: “You’ve got some real dork-like trolls here Scoble!”

Mr. Pot, may I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?
Jeffrey

Winer writes: “You’ve got some real dork-like trolls here Scoble!”

Mr. Pot, may I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?
Dawn Douglass

Shelly, frankly, I can’t stand women like you who look for offense in everything, not only regarding themselves but regarding other women. You are the ones who give our gender a bad name.

Calling the actions of a husband sticking up for his wife “demeaning” is 1970s feminist bullshit. And then to later play the ‘poor little me’ female victim of all the male bullies who took your ridiculous point head on is, guess what, DEMEANING. Not just to you but to all women.

Grow up and get over female self.
Dawn Douglass

Shelly, frankly, I can’t stand women like you who look for offense in everything, not only regarding themselves but regarding other women. You are the ones who give our gender a bad name.

Calling the actions of a husband sticking up for his wife “demeaning” is 1970s feminist bullshit. And then to later play the ‘poor little me’ female victim of all the male bullies who took your ridiculous point head on is, guess what, DEMEANING. Not just to you but to all women.

Grow up and get over female self.
http://salubri.journals.ie/ Salubri

I have only got as far as comment #24 on this thread and while I’ll be reading more and might even comment on the whole situation at some point, I’d like to make a quick knee jerk reaction here…

Shelley – I have read a bunch of comments by you here and on a couple of other blogs (I assume they are all by you – at least they were all in the name Shelley and all pointed to burningbird) and have found you to be witty and pretty much on the point most of the time. Your blog is erudite and all round a good read. However… I’d just like to ask if you mean to be demeaning to Maryam by suggesting that she would not be able to tell him if he was “demeaning her” as you suggest? Or possibly she wouldn’t spot it? Who are you to fight her fight without consulting her or to post about her feelings without letting her read your posts first? Come on! Stop defending this point and get on with making better ones!
http://salubri.journals.ie Salubri

I have only got as far as comment #24 on this thread and while I’ll be reading more and might even comment on the whole situation at some point, I’d like to make a quick knee jerk reaction here…

Shelley – I have read a bunch of comments by you here and on a couple of other blogs (I assume they are all by you – at least they were all in the name Shelley and all pointed to burningbird) and have found you to be witty and pretty much on the point most of the time. Your blog is erudite and all round a good read. However… I’d just like to ask if you mean to be demeaning to Maryam by suggesting that she would not be able to tell him if he was “demeaning her” as you suggest? Or possibly she wouldn’t spot it? Who are you to fight her fight without consulting her or to post about her feelings without letting her read your posts first? Come on! Stop defending this point and get on with making better ones!
http://www.bynkii.com/ John C. Welch

Winer writes: “You’ve got some real dork-like trolls here Scoble!”

Mr. Pot, may I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?

Don’t you know The Dave is always right?

Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

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