O’Reilly responds to code of conduct feedback

Man, I’ve read hundreds of blogs about Tim O’Reilly and Jimmy Wales’ proposal for a blogging code of conduct and the feedback wasn’t kind. It, even, looked a lot like a mob because the feedback was so consistently anti the proposal.

Anyway, I was just reading my feeds and saw that Tim O’Reilly responded with a lengthy post.

That’s how to respond to a mob. Take on their concerns head on and remain calm. Thanks Tim. I’ll think about what you wrote more today and will be watching the comments on both his reaction post and here.

41 thoughts on “O’Reilly responds to code of conduct feedback

  1. Was there a distributed server cluster like Amazon's S3 back in the
    first bubble? No. Or if there was, it was orders of magnitude more
    expensive than what startups can diamond kitty currently afford — that's a real
    difference in economics. So is the existence of Google Apps, and of
    Amazon's EC2 and Simple DB, and even of Basecamp, for that matter.

  2. Was there a distributed server cluster like Amazon's S3 back in the
    first bubble? No. Or if there was, it was orders of magnitude more
    expensive than what startups can diamond kitty currently afford — that's a real
    difference in economics. So is the existence of Google Apps, and of
    Amazon's EC2 and Simple DB, and even of Basecamp, for that matter.

  3. Tim O’Reilly was the one who started the incivility. The substance of the censorship charter, sorry, code of conduct, was bad enough, but Tim’s choice of language only inflamed the situation further. Anyone who debates in a way he dislikes is ‘pig wrestling’, apparently (the code post). Anyone who uses words he doesn’t like is ‘potty mouthed, apparently (response post).

    A word I used in my blog response to this was ‘sanctimonious’ – I think it is exactly the sort of attitude Tim is showing right now, and it is why I will never take part in any Code of Conduct which has his name associated with it.

  4. Tim O’Reilly was the one who started the incivility. The substance of the censorship charter, sorry, code of conduct, was bad enough, but Tim’s choice of language only inflamed the situation further. Anyone who debates in a way he dislikes is ‘pig wrestling’, apparently (the code post). Anyone who uses words he doesn’t like is ‘potty mouthed, apparently (response post).

    A word I used in my blog response to this was ‘sanctimonious’ – I think it is exactly the sort of attitude Tim is showing right now, and it is why I will never take part in any Code of Conduct which has his name associated with it.

  5. Michael nailed it…it *only* took 17 comments. I guess the mob accusation really struck a nerve. Too bad for them it was accurate.

  6. Michael nailed it…it *only* took 17 comments. I guess the mob accusation really struck a nerve. Too bad for them it was accurate.

  7. A draconian, overblown solution to a miniscule problem deserves to be rejected. The volume of the rejection notices reflects Tim’s stature (and the New York Times). It’s not a mob. I noticed that Robert slides from “looked a lot like a mob,” to “how to respond to a mob.” There was no mob. Only a really dumb idea.

  8. A draconian, overblown solution to a miniscule problem deserves to be rejected. The volume of the rejection notices reflects Tim’s stature (and the New York Times). It’s not a mob. I noticed that Robert slides from “looked a lot like a mob,” to “how to respond to a mob.” There was no mob. Only a really dumb idea.

  9. ““There are some nuanced legal issues to be looked at.”

    What nuanced legal issues? Bloggers can disallow any type comments they want. No one has the “right” to post a comment on someone’s blog. So, I’m curious what “nuanced legal issues” there could possibly be.

  10. ““There are some nuanced legal issues to be looked at.”

    What nuanced legal issues? Bloggers can disallow any type comments they want. No one has the “right” to post a comment on someone’s blog. So, I’m curious what “nuanced legal issues” there could possibly be.

  11. I really appreciate Tim O’Reilly’s kindness in supporting us against violence toward Tech Females – Cute Kitty. In the past few weeks I stop promoting events like other female bloggers stop blogging. Our baby web group is in total silence. This is not good because our sister organization thought we are dead. I understand O’Reilly doesn’t want the “active” Tech Females to go silence or stay home when Web 2.0 conference is coming next week.

    Blogging Code of Conduct is a nice concept but it is not very economic for all the web users. It is against the law to post sensitive information online such as social security, age and health information, whether it is true or false. It involved Civil monetary penalties. We can let the law to regulate the bad apples. Those unfriendly suspicious images and comments will help the law enforcement to hunt down the bad apples.

    I will be back for a story…

  12. I really appreciate Tim O’Reilly’s kindness in supporting us against violence toward Tech Females – Cute Kitty. In the past few weeks I stop promoting events like other female bloggers stop blogging. Our baby web group is in total silence. This is not good because our sister organization thought we are dead. I understand O’Reilly doesn’t want the “active” Tech Females to go silence or stay home when Web 2.0 conference is coming next week.

    Blogging Code of Conduct is a nice concept but it is not very economic for all the web users. It is against the law to post sensitive information online such as social security, age and health information, whether it is true or false. It involved Civil monetary penalties. We can let the law to regulate the bad apples. Those unfriendly suspicious images and comments will help the law enforcement to hunt down the bad apples.

    I will be back for a story…

  13. The people against any kind of civility in general do not read Gubbi. Let me say that again, “in general”, as I want everyone to know I just mean that “most” people who like the rude and uncivil behavior “generally” scan articles. LOL

    Neither O’Reilly or Wales is suggesting what I term in my parallel post (sorry Robert), the prospect of a Bureau of Online Blogs, or BOOB for short. Please read an interact rather than react to articles people put their time into.

    Perhaps that should be the first rule of the Web 3.0 code of conduct, if you don’t read do not enter. :)

  14. The people against any kind of civility in general do not read Gubbi. Let me say that again, “in general”, as I want everyone to know I just mean that “most” people who like the rude and uncivil behavior “generally” scan articles. LOL

    Neither O’Reilly or Wales is suggesting what I term in my parallel post (sorry Robert), the prospect of a Bureau of Online Blogs, or BOOB for short. Please read an interact rather than react to articles people put their time into.

    Perhaps that should be the first rule of the Web 3.0 code of conduct, if you don’t read do not enter. :)

  15. Looking at comments here makes me wonder if people have read what TO has written at all. Here’s a quote from the article:
    “My goal here was to propose a system that would make it easier for sites to state their policies without having to write their own. There’s no intent to create a single code that every blog is somehow supposed to sign up for, any more than the idea of Creative Commons is to say that every site must abide by their own policies.”

    Read “Mechanism is better than policy” and “There are some nuanced legal issues to be looked at.” sections before making these misdirected comments.

    And no, he’s not trying to push “the Code”. From TO’s post:
    “The mechanisms I proposed may not be the right ones, but I am convinced that the goal is worthwhile. Let’s figure out the right way to reach it.”

  16. Looking at comments here makes me wonder if people have read what TO has written at all. Here’s a quote from the article:
    “My goal here was to propose a system that would make it easier for sites to state their policies without having to write their own. There’s no intent to create a single code that every blog is somehow supposed to sign up for, any more than the idea of Creative Commons is to say that every site must abide by their own policies.”

    Read “Mechanism is better than policy” and “There are some nuanced legal issues to be looked at.” sections before making these misdirected comments.

    And no, he’s not trying to push “the Code”. From TO’s post:
    “The mechanisms I proposed may not be the right ones, but I am convinced that the goal is worthwhile. Let’s figure out the right way to reach it.”

  17. Sigh.. Sounds like Tim wants to make the blogosphere’s equivalent of the Federal Government. What’s wrong with simply letting every blogger manage their site as they see fit?

    “looked a lot like a mob because the feedback was so consistently anti the proposal.”

    looked like a mob? Hang on. How is the apparent overwhelming rejection of Tim’s proposal any different than the “majority” voting against something in politics? Granted there wasn’t an official vote, but I’m guessing if there was the outcome would have been the same. (and probably explains why Tim didn’t even put it to a vote)

  18. Sigh.. Sounds like Tim wants to make the blogosphere’s equivalent of the Federal Government. What’s wrong with simply letting every blogger manage their site as they see fit?

    “looked a lot like a mob because the feedback was so consistently anti the proposal.”

    looked like a mob? Hang on. How is the apparent overwhelming rejection of Tim’s proposal any different than the “majority” voting against something in politics? Granted there wasn’t an official vote, but I’m guessing if there was the outcome would have been the same. (and probably explains why Tim didn’t even put it to a vote)

  19. @Andy Because, after laying claim to the term Web 2.0, Tim O’Reilly now wants to be known as the man who brought law and order to the blogosphere. Trust me, he’s not dropping this one.

  20. @Andy Because, after laying claim to the term Web 2.0, Tim O’Reilly now wants to be known as the man who brought law and order to the blogosphere. Trust me, he’s not dropping this one.

  21. Dude, it took him how many pages to explain this again?

    Every time Tim tries to “clarify”, it takes him more and more space. That’s a real sign that this is just a bad idea. Clarification should take less space, since it builds on the original.

    Either Tim’s a dreadful writer, or this is just not a good idea.

  22. Dude, it took him how many pages to explain this again?

    Every time Tim tries to “clarify”, it takes him more and more space. That’s a real sign that this is just a bad idea. Clarification should take less space, since it builds on the original.

    Either Tim’s a dreadful writer, or this is just not a good idea.

  23. Sorry, Robert, have to strongly disagree. This is *not* how you respond.

    I agree with you in the “Take on their concerns head on and remain calm” part, but whatever happened to content? Tim’s post is as civilized, calm as ever, but he is ignoring /twisting the facts.

    The summary of his take-aways makes it look like most of the feedback was on refining “the Code”, proposing improvements. That’s BS, sorry, but have to call it what it is. The overwhelming feedback was complete rejection of “the Code”.

    Tim can certainly maintain his own view, just don’t pretend it’s the take-away from the public feedback.

  24. Sorry, Robert, have to strongly disagree. This is *not* how you respond.

    I agree with you in the “Take on their concerns head on and remain calm” part, but whatever happened to content? Tim’s post is as civilized, calm as ever, but he is ignoring /twisting the facts.

    The summary of his take-aways makes it look like most of the feedback was on refining “the Code”, proposing improvements. That’s BS, sorry, but have to call it what it is. The overwhelming feedback was complete rejection of “the Code”.

    Tim can certainly maintain his own view, just don’t pretend it’s the take-away from the public feedback.

  25. I still don’t understand the purpose of the code of conduct. The only bloggers who will follow O’Reilly’s code of conduct(and put up his badges) are the ones who would not make any mean posts anyway. The trolls will keep on trolling, code of conduct or not.

    O’Reilly’s rules, like a non-binding resolution may be a nice gesture, but useless in reality.

  26. I still don’t understand the purpose of the code of conduct. The only bloggers who will follow O’Reilly’s code of conduct(and put up his badges) are the ones who would not make any mean posts anyway. The trolls will keep on trolling, code of conduct or not.

    O’Reilly’s rules, like a non-binding resolution may be a nice gesture, but useless in reality.

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