A real-world troll story

July 2, 2007 By

The Nokia trolls are here. They are almost as annoying as Apple trolls back in the 1990s.

It’s always interesting behavior when you piss off someone’s “product religion.”

One thing that happened in the line on Thursday and Friday is that we all met two real-world trolls. There were two kids, who were about 14 years old. They were unbelieveably rude and there really was nothing anyone could do about them.

They’d come right in your face and taunt you. They were trying to get attention. They would interrupt conversations. I was talking with Dave Winer and they got right in between both of us and started trying to take over the conversation. I’d never met a person who trolled face-to-face before. I assumed that these people required anonymity to do their work. They don’t.

When Apple’s security guards kept them from coming into the store the entire crowd cheered. We had all been bothered by these kids. Where were their parents? They were allowed to stay on the street until 11 p.m. at night.

But, anyway, I am getting old. Remember, I don’t get it. But I learned some things in line. I found that the ONLY way to deal with real-world trolls is to band together. When we created a line that they couldn’t break through they got frustrated and went to another part of the line where their poison could still get them the attention they desired.

The problem is that online you can’t band together against trolling behavior. So, our other option is to ignore the trolls and not give them what they wanted. It was interesting watching these kids interact with people. Many people didn’t know they were trolls when they first came up, so would give them the attention they desired. But quickly the kids went over the line with each person and you could see the frustration levels rise. We had never met kids so rude.

Anyway, that’s my real-world troll story. Seems there’s a bunch of people who are unhappy with me for saying the iPhone is better than the Nokia N95. But it is. Sorry. And if that gets me called a “moron” like one troll just called me, so be it.

Have a good day! Ignore the trolls.

Filed Under: 1

http://www.timalmond.com/ Tim Almond

How much do you want for that N95, Robert?
http://www.timalmond.com Tim Almond

How much do you want for that N95, Robert?
http://www.digitalwebspace.ca/ Shannon

Scoble, sorry to hear about the trolls. It was pretty brazen of them to be in your face in public. Anyways, keep giving honest reviews of products and your fanbase will stick with you. Much love.
http://www.digitalwebspace.ca Shannon

Scoble, sorry to hear about the trolls. It was pretty brazen of them to be in your face in public. Anyways, keep giving honest reviews of products and your fanbase will stick with you. Much love.
http://yohanneswijaya.com/ Yohannes Wijaya

Robert, On thursday night, David Randolph of Revision3 had an ingenious idea of putting the cell number of one of these two kids on digg and encourage diggers to send voice mail and sms. One of the guys on our side was fishing for the number and he took the bait. We imagined the fury his father would have when the phone bill comes in at the end of the month. I didnt know how the story ends, however.
http://yohanneswijaya.com Yohannes Wijaya

Robert, On thursday night, David Randolph of Revision3 had an ingenious idea of putting the cell number of one of these two kids on digg and encourage diggers to send voice mail and sms. One of the guys on our side was fishing for the number and he took the bait. We imagined the fury his father would have when the phone bill comes in at the end of the month. I didnt know how the story ends, however.
http://www.slingblade.se/blog Jan B.

I don’t understand that type of human behaviour. I watch a TV show where people have problems with their dogs. Apparently, you have to be the pact leader at home, or one of your dogs will take that role. It appears that the same behaviour is valid for some human beings. They will try to dominate you, until you are forced to dominate them. I hate it. It’s a lose-lose game and it leads to nothing good.
http://www.slingblade.se/blog Jan B.

I don’t understand that type of human behaviour. I watch a TV show where people have problems with their dogs. Apparently, you have to be the pact leader at home, or one of your dogs will take that role. It appears that the same behaviour is valid for some human beings. They will try to dominate you, until you are forced to dominate them. I hate it. It’s a lose-lose game and it leads to nothing good.
http://www.beercosoftware.com/ Chris

There has to be a goal to trolling. If they are trolling for free then they are stupid. If Nokia paid them, then they did their jobs and good for them.
A lot of forum and digg trolls are paid. It’s pathetic but there it is. Remember the E3 crowd that MS paid to cross their arms in an X and cheer for Xbox? The same thing happens on digg and other services.

There are professional trolls you can pay to do this.
If they went as far as to get up in your face and stuff, I bet they got a hefty reward.
http://www.beercosoftware.com Chris

There has to be a goal to trolling. If they are trolling for free then they are stupid. If Nokia paid them, then they did their jobs and good for them.
A lot of forum and digg trolls are paid. It’s pathetic but there it is. Remember the E3 crowd that MS paid to cross their arms in an X and cheer for Xbox? The same thing happens on digg and other services.

There are professional trolls you can pay to do this.
If they went as far as to get up in your face and stuff, I bet they got a hefty reward.
http://www.beercosoftware.com/ Chris

A big hint would be if they were trying to get the Nokia logo on camera when the TV crews started filming, or the N95 product advert on a t-shirt. If they were escorted away by security we may never know. I think in that case, they’ll still get paid though if they were in fact pay trolls/guerilla marketing. I hear you can make a living off of that just like the people who make a living off of being pharmaceutical guinea pigs full time.
http://www.beercosoftware.com Chris

A big hint would be if they were trying to get the Nokia logo on camera when the TV crews started filming, or the N95 product advert on a t-shirt. If they were escorted away by security we may never know. I think in that case, they’ll still get paid though if they were in fact pay trolls/guerilla marketing. I hear you can make a living off of that just like the people who make a living off of being pharmaceutical guinea pigs full time.
http://thesmallwave.com/ Tom

Sorry to hear about this, especially given that it’s over the N95. As I’ve said before, it’s a one-trick pony (killer camera) with otherwise unspectacular web, email, etc. And of course nothing like the iPhone’s ease of use.

No one could possibly say the N95 is a better device than the iPhone — not and be taken seriously — unless they made it clear they heavily weighted their rating on the camera functionality of both devices. No one would dispute that if a camera is the absolute highest priority the N95 was practically made for you. Not just over the iPhone, but likely all other smartphones as well. But I’ve mentioned before I think the market for smartphone users who require a killer camera is pretty small.
http://thesmallwave.com Tom

Sorry to hear about this, especially given that it’s over the N95. As I’ve said before, it’s a one-trick pony (killer camera) with otherwise unspectacular web, email, etc. And of course nothing like the iPhone’s ease of use.

No one could possibly say the N95 is a better device than the iPhone — not and be taken seriously — unless they made it clear they heavily weighted their rating on the camera functionality of both devices. No one would dispute that if a camera is the absolute highest priority the N95 was practically made for you. Not just over the iPhone, but likely all other smartphones as well. But I’ve mentioned before I think the market for smartphone users who require a killer camera is pretty small.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

I’m keeping my N95 for now cause I want to wait until my euphoria over the iPhone wears off a little more to see if I still think the iPhone is the best device. Let’s say a week.

Translation: I don’t have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

I’m keeping my N95 for now cause I want to wait until my euphoria over the iPhone wears off a little more to see if I still think the iPhone is the best device. Let’s say a week.

Translation: I don’t have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I’ll give it to one of my readers instead of trying to profit off of someone else’s gift to me.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I’ll give it to one of my readers instead of trying to profit off of someone else’s gift to me.
Podesta

Robert made the mistake of linking to a Symbian/Nokia site owner’s YouTube video putting down the iPhone’s camera. That information was passed around on Symbian and Nokia sites such as the Howard Forums, as well as YouTube. When the trolls got tired of iPhone hate on their own sites, they decided to come over here. I’m not kiidding about the hate. There is no balance in their response to the iPhone.

Actually the fellow, Ricky Something, made a half-dozen videos, claiming that the N95 bests the iPhones in various ways. He’s been reasonably polite when he is here, but tells lies and encourages trolling on other sites. After all, he makes his living off the Symbian/Nokia bread train.

I have no problem acknowledging that the camera in the N95 is better than the one in the iPhone. However, the claim that the N95 is a better convergence device overall is laughable.
Podesta

Robert made the mistake of linking to a Symbian/Nokia site owner’s YouTube video putting down the iPhone’s camera. That information was passed around on Symbian and Nokia sites such as the Howard Forums, as well as YouTube. When the trolls got tired of iPhone hate on their own sites, they decided to come over here. I’m not kiidding about the hate. There is no balance in their response to the iPhone.

Actually the fellow, Ricky Something, made a half-dozen videos, claiming that the N95 bests the iPhones in various ways. He’s been reasonably polite when he is here, but tells lies and encourages trolling on other sites. After all, he makes his living off the Symbian/Nokia bread train.

I have no problem acknowledging that the camera in the N95 is better than the one in the iPhone. However, the claim that the N95 is a better convergence device overall is laughable.
Podesta

Corrections: “kidding” and ‘gravy train”
Podesta

Corrections: “kidding” and ‘gravy train”
http://www.comeacross.info/ Raoul

Too bad people in the US are so litigious, and the laws are so ridiculously strict. In other countries, a perfectly acceptable thing to do to those two teens would be to slap them around a bit. I have a feeling that would have knocked some sense into them. We’re so touchy-feely here in the US, and then we have to deal with our due share of personality disorders. If we were more cut and dry about things, people would be more respectful.
http://www.thebluenile.vox.com/ Henrikki

Sorry to hear about the trolls in your comment section.

I haven’t used the iPhone, so I really can’t compare it to the N95. It has a fatal flaw in my perspective though: the touchscreen.

I looks pretty and can be spectacular (and let’s face it, Apple is good in that). In everyday use however (95 % percent of the tasks you do with your phone) joystick and buttons used with one hand is easier and faster way to do it.

Anyway, this is my thinking without having tried out the iPhone.

Let the communication continue..:)
http://www.thebluenile.vox.com Henrikki

Sorry to hear about the trolls in your comment section.

I haven’t used the iPhone, so I really can’t compare it to the N95. It has a fatal flaw in my perspective though: the touchscreen.

I looks pretty and can be spectacular (and let’s face it, Apple is good in that). In everyday use however (95 % percent of the tasks you do with your phone) joystick and buttons used with one hand is easier and faster way to do it.

Anyway, this is my thinking without having tried out the iPhone.

Let the communication continue..:)
http://www.comeacross.info Raoul

Too bad people in the US are so litigious, and the laws are so ridiculously strict. In other countries, a perfectly acceptable thing to do to those two teens would be to slap them around a bit. I have a feeling that would have knocked some sense into them. We’re so touchy-feely here in the US, and then we have to deal with our due share of personality disorders. If we were more cut and dry about things, people would be more respectful.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Raoul: if it weren’t for all the media being around we would have duct taped them to a tree. I’m sure that would have gotten a lot of applause, but I didn’t want to spend a night in jail for abusing a kid. Lots of us in line thought about doing that, though.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Raoul: if it weren’t for all the media being around we would have duct taped them to a tree. I’m sure that would have gotten a lot of applause, but I didn’t want to spend a night in jail for abusing a kid. Lots of us in line thought about doing that, though.
T Man

It’s kind of funny you mention this like it is something new or that it is somehow only anti-iPhone. As a Windows guy, I’ve been in dozens of situations on forums where we will be talking about whatever, and the trolls start to invade. Look at Paul Thurrots WinInformant comments to see what I mean. This is a common occurrence, and the Apple guys do exact same thing as the Nokia guys, as the Motorola guys, as the Verizon guys, as the MS Mobile guys, as the… Well, you get my point. Everyone is guilty of it, so it is a little disingenuous to call out these Nokia guys like you have something that is so special. Remember, just as much as they are against you, you are for something. And at the end of the day, it’s just a phone.

This trolling is not only limited to computers. Cars, sports teams, cities/states/countries, who has the best Potassium, etc.
T Man

It’s kind of funny you mention this like it is something new or that it is somehow only anti-iPhone. As a Windows guy, I’ve been in dozens of situations on forums where we will be talking about whatever, and the trolls start to invade. Look at Paul Thurrots WinInformant comments to see what I mean. This is a common occurrence, and the Apple guys do exact same thing as the Nokia guys, as the Motorola guys, as the Verizon guys, as the MS Mobile guys, as the… Well, you get my point. Everyone is guilty of it, so it is a little disingenuous to call out these Nokia guys like you have something that is so special. Remember, just as much as they are against you, you are for something. And at the end of the day, it’s just a phone.

This trolling is not only limited to computers. Cars, sports teams, cities/states/countries, who has the best Potassium, etc.
amal ekbal

Since you have both N95 and iPhone … how is the web rendering capabilities in the FP1 S60 browser v/s iPhone/Safari. Is iPhone/Safari able to render things better?

I was under the impression that the two browsers should be very close (except for the touch interface) …. since they both have the same Javascript and KHTML core.
amal ekbal

Since you have both N95 and iPhone … how is the web rendering capabilities in the FP1 S60 browser v/s iPhone/Safari. Is iPhone/Safari able to render things better?

I was under the impression that the two browsers should be very close (except for the touch interface) …. since they both have the same Javascript and KHTML core.
http://www.beercosoftware.com/ Chris

“Translation: I don’t have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway.
I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I’ll give it to one of my readers”

If you were smart you would

A. sign up for a different ebay account
B. sell the N95
C. use the money to purchase the iPhone.
D. tell puremobile you gave it to a reader in the unlikely occurance that they ask.
http://www.beercosoftware.com Chris

“Translation: I don’t have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway.
I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I’ll give it to one of my readers”

If you were smart you would

A. sign up for a different ebay account
B. sell the N95
C. use the money to purchase the iPhone.
D. tell puremobile you gave it to a reader in the unlikely occurance that they ask.
Guest

Now that would have been a great Podshow video. A couple of punks getting duct taped to a tree. Must have been hard to keep from going after them. With the media, crowd and nobody wanting to get out of line, the punks had a nearly ideal audience to hassle. As punishment, I hope they are forced to run Vista.
http://blog.nordquist.org Brett Nordquist

Now that would have been a great Podshow video. A couple of punks getting duct taped to a tree. Must have been hard to keep from going after them. With the media, crowd and nobody wanting to get out of line, the punks had a nearly ideal audience to hassle. As punishment, I hope they are forced to run Vista.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

TMan: I just am calling out the Nokia guys cause they are the ones in my face today. Tomorrow it might be someone else.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Amal: the rendering is probably technically similar but the iPhone’s interaction is so superior it isn’t funny. It makes you think the rendering is better. Either way, it isn’t even close. The iPhone dramatically wins on the Web.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Amal: the rendering is probably technically similar but the iPhone’s interaction is so superior it isn’t funny. It makes you think the rendering is better. Either way, it isn’t even close. The iPhone dramatically wins on the Web.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

TMan: I just am calling out the Nokia guys cause they are the ones in my face today. Tomorrow it might be someone else.
http://www.symbian-guru.com/ Ricky Cadden

Podesta

-Since we’re clearing up lies…

1. Howardforums is not a Symbian/Nokia site. It’s a mobile phone forum, complete with an Apple forum.

2. I most certainly do not “make a living” on my site. I can assure you that the ad revenue wouldn’t even pay my cellphone bill.

3. I don’t encourage trolling anywhere.

4. I certainly don’t iPhone-bash. I do, however, point out where marketing is in over their head (as an ad sales rep, it’s easy to see things like that) and will point out where a specific device fails or suffers. If you’re such an “avid” reader of my site, you’ll also see that when the N95 was launched, I was very quick to say the reasons that I didn’t think it would be a good purchase.

After I was given one, I did an objective review and found that it was still lacking in the areas where it lacks, and said so.

There’s a big difference in all-out bashing and in simply pointing out weaknesses. Robert hasn’t bashed the N95 (that I’ve heard/read) but simply pointed out areas in which he thinks that the iPhone is better.

I won’t sit here and argue iPhone vs. N95 on Robert’s blog. I just want to clear up lies that are being said about me.
http://www.symbian-guru.com Ricky Cadden

Podesta

-Since we’re clearing up lies…

1. Howardforums is not a Symbian/Nokia site. It’s a mobile phone forum, complete with an Apple forum.

2. I most certainly do not “make a living” on my site. I can assure you that the ad revenue wouldn’t even pay my cellphone bill.

3. I don’t encourage trolling anywhere.

4. I certainly don’t iPhone-bash. I do, however, point out where marketing is in over their head (as an ad sales rep, it’s easy to see things like that) and will point out where a specific device fails or suffers. If you’re such an “avid” reader of my site, you’ll also see that when the N95 was launched, I was very quick to say the reasons that I didn’t think it would be a good purchase.

After I was given one, I did an objective review and found that it was still lacking in the areas where it lacks, and said so.

There’s a big difference in all-out bashing and in simply pointing out weaknesses. Robert hasn’t bashed the N95 (that I’ve heard/read) but simply pointed out areas in which he thinks that the iPhone is better.

I won’t sit here and argue iPhone vs. N95 on Robert’s blog. I just want to clear up lies that are being said about me.
http://007-security-services.com/ Ny Nj

:LOL God help those kids if they had attempted something like that here in the New York City.

Walking past many of those waiting in line on our way to work – you know you’d better not mess around
http://007-security-services.com/ Ny Nj

:LOL God help those kids if they had attempted something like that here in the New York City.

Walking past many of those waiting in line on our way to work – you know you’d better not mess around
http://www.amonthinvenice.com/ Richard Callaby

I would not call you a moron for thinking one product is better than another. That is just personal opinion. It is kind of cool to hear the stories you tell of the people who you meet in line waiting for this phone. I guess that was the attraction of it all. Not the object itself but rather the “community” that forms around it.

Interesting and I think I will tell one of my former professors about this as he wrote a book called the “Sacred Santa” that explores how consumerism is becoming a religion in of itself. Not saying what you did was a “religous” experience but to some it could be seen as such.

This is a subject that cannot be covered in a comment on a blog so I am not tryign to cover all the bases here. Basically, I wanted to let you know that I DO UNDERSTAND Robert.
http://www.amonthinvenice.com Richard Callaby

I would not call you a moron for thinking one product is better than another. That is just personal opinion. It is kind of cool to hear the stories you tell of the people who you meet in line waiting for this phone. I guess that was the attraction of it all. Not the object itself but rather the “community” that forms around it.

Interesting and I think I will tell one of my former professors about this as he wrote a book called the “Sacred Santa” that explores how consumerism is becoming a religion in of itself. Not saying what you did was a “religous” experience but to some it could be seen as such.

This is a subject that cannot be covered in a comment on a blog so I am not tryign to cover all the bases here. Basically, I wanted to let you know that I DO UNDERSTAND Robert.
http://yohanneswijaya.com/ Yohannes Wijaya

Robert, I have one unopened if you want one next week. I bought an extra just in case.
http://yohanneswijaya.com Yohannes Wijaya

Robert, I have one unopened if you want one next week. I bought an extra just in case.
Bill Dalsen

Sorry to hear about the trolls, Robert. Truly foolish, impudent people.
Bill Dalsen

Sorry to hear about the trolls, Robert. Truly foolish, impudent people.

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