On Saturday at the iPhoneDevCamp someone was showing me his computer. It was running Ubuntu. Linux. I noted to myself that it finally got over some of the ugliness that turned me off of earlier Linux-on-the-desktop attempts. He showed me, and a few other people some of the cool things (much nicer 3D switching than even OSX has, for instance). Damn, I thought to myself, it’s time to give Linux another look.
Then, tonight, I see another article over on ITPro about the future of Ubuntu and Linux as a desktop platform.
I should credit several readers lately for bugging me about Ubuntu. I forget them all, though, and don’t want to cause any hard feelings. Thanks for staying on my case. It sure is looking nice!
Anyway, it’s time to get an interview with Mark Shuttleworth. Anyone know him and want to introduce us?
Looks like Dell is seeing the same thing, too, Digg is linking to a report that Dell is expanding its line of Ubuntu-powered computers.
What do you think? Is this finally Linux’ time on the desktop? Is it getting good enough to get more than a tiny number of geeks to switch?
Robert
It may be getting easier to use and prettier to look at, but it still sucks at overall support for basic PC hardware. I was keen to switch to Ubuntu permanently on my less than 12 month old Laptop: the wireless card isn’t supported, my now ex-PC: video card issues. Worse thing: you still have to revert to the command line for anything other than the basics. This won’t be the year of the Linux desktop, and neither will next year.
Robert
It may be getting easier to use and prettier to look at, but it still sucks at overall support for basic PC hardware. I was keen to switch to Ubuntu permanently on my less than 12 month old Laptop: the wireless card isn’t supported, my now ex-PC: video card issues. Worse thing: you still have to revert to the command line for anything other than the basics. This won’t be the year of the Linux desktop, and neither will next year.
I have been playing around with Ubuntu on an older machine at home for the past few weeks, and think it is great! I agree that Dell has broken through the Windows lock on PC OS’s by offering Ubuntu machines, and I also agree that this (and other vendors joining in) might finally get hardware vendors to write Linux drivers for their devices. This is the biggest problem facing Linux’s general acceptance and the biggest problem I have had with it: you just have to do too much under the hood to get it to work with some devices (notably wireless NICs). Linux is closer than it has ever been to being accepted. It just needs the hardware community behind it.
You might want to check out some Ubuntu blogs that are good: allaboutubuntu.wordpress.com, ubuntu.wordpress.com, anotherubuntublog.wordpress.com, and sheehantu.wordpress.com. I find them very informative and written by knowledgeable people.
There won’t be a “year of Linux on the desktop”, even though Linux will probably climb to 10 or 20% of user share in the next decade. Which was the “year of the PC on the desktop”? I had my first PC in 1989 when I was four, but most people I know didn’t get into computers until 93-95, and many didn’t have net access until 1998. In the same way, I think Ubuntu Dapper started the age of user-friendly Linux, but most people will remember Feisty better (the first 08 release could be interesting too… having Long Term Support and modern features Dapper lacked, it could be a nice OS for OEMs). For me, the year of Linux on the Desktop was last year, but most people probably never noticed
.
Myself, I’m happily enjoying my new laptop with Ubuntu as its only OS
Though I might make a separate partition to try stuff like PCLinuxOS or Fedora 7.
PXLated: Linux has a big cost advantage. Not just on the OS, you also have thousands of easy to install open source apps. Depending on your level of geekdom, you can choose them from a menu or type a command, and get whatever you need installed. Of course, they’re often not as good as commercial competition, but most people don’t need pro features (example: no pro would choose GIMP over Photoshop, but it can compete against Photoshop Elements which has most of the features “Joe USer” needs. That’s a $100 saving… do this for every app, and add in ease of installation, and you get a great edge over proprietary software).
Maurice: if you want Vista, you’re better off buying it preinstalled. Most people can’t install an OS, much less Windows. Today Ubuntu is FAR more user friendly to install… I install Ubuntu and XP or 2k every week in different computers, and the Ubuntu install is faster, easier and more complete (it comes with a real browser and OpenOffice, for example, and you don’t need extra security software). Plus, I can read my feeds or play Tetris while I install. Meanwhile, partitioning a HD with the XP installer is a lot like using cfdisk in a horrible TUI…
I have been playing around with Ubuntu on an older machine at home for the past few weeks, and think it is great! I agree that Dell has broken through the Windows lock on PC OS’s by offering Ubuntu machines, and I also agree that this (and other vendors joining in) might finally get hardware vendors to write Linux drivers for their devices. This is the biggest problem facing Linux’s general acceptance and the biggest problem I have had with it: you just have to do too much under the hood to get it to work with some devices (notably wireless NICs). Linux is closer than it has ever been to being accepted. It just needs the hardware community behind it.
You might want to check out some Ubuntu blogs that are good: allaboutubuntu.wordpress.com, ubuntu.wordpress.com, anotherubuntublog.wordpress.com, and sheehantu.wordpress.com. I find them very informative and written by knowledgeable people.
There won’t be a “year of Linux on the desktop”, even though Linux will probably climb to 10 or 20% of user share in the next decade. Which was the “year of the PC on the desktop”? I had my first PC in 1989 when I was four, but most people I know didn’t get into computers until 93-95, and many didn’t have net access until 1998. In the same way, I think Ubuntu Dapper started the age of user-friendly Linux, but most people will remember Feisty better (the first 08 release could be interesting too… having Long Term Support and modern features Dapper lacked, it could be a nice OS for OEMs). For me, the year of Linux on the Desktop was last year, but most people probably never noticed
.
Myself, I’m happily enjoying my new laptop with Ubuntu as its only OS
Though I might make a separate partition to try stuff like PCLinuxOS or Fedora 7.
PXLated: Linux has a big cost advantage. Not just on the OS, you also have thousands of easy to install open source apps. Depending on your level of geekdom, you can choose them from a menu or type a command, and get whatever you need installed. Of course, they’re often not as good as commercial competition, but most people don’t need pro features (example: no pro would choose GIMP over Photoshop, but it can compete against Photoshop Elements which has most of the features “Joe USer” needs. That’s a $100 saving… do this for every app, and add in ease of installation, and you get a great edge over proprietary software).
Maurice: if you want Vista, you’re better off buying it preinstalled. Most people can’t install an OS, much less Windows. Today Ubuntu is FAR more user friendly to install… I install Ubuntu and XP or 2k every week in different computers, and the Ubuntu install is faster, easier and more complete (it comes with a real browser and OpenOffice, for example, and you don’t need extra security software). Plus, I can read my feeds or play Tetris while I install. Meanwhile, partitioning a HD with the XP installer is a lot like using cfdisk in a horrible TUI…
Linux fans need to stop worrying about Microsoft and just concentrate on improving Linux. It’s already free and it’s already widely available. There is little else to do along those fronts.
First, they need to keep working on device compatibililty, especially pushing out drivers for new hardware. That will require a bit of magic as long as the vendors keep their code to themselves.
Second, conjure up a risk-free install so Windows users can try it and go back to Windows without losing a beat. Sure, you can run it off CD/DVD, but that just gives the impression that Linux is ungodly slow. Magic probably needed here, too.
Third, the hardcore set should stop trying to persuade people to use Linux by converting them to the Church of Stallman. Ain’t working.
Fourth, consider Apple: Wed Linux to a specific hardware platform and make it so enticing that people want to buy it.
Linux fans need to stop worrying about Microsoft and just concentrate on improving Linux. It’s already free and it’s already widely available. There is little else to do along those fronts.
First, they need to keep working on device compatibililty, especially pushing out drivers for new hardware. That will require a bit of magic as long as the vendors keep their code to themselves.
Second, conjure up a risk-free install so Windows users can try it and go back to Windows without losing a beat. Sure, you can run it off CD/DVD, but that just gives the impression that Linux is ungodly slow. Magic probably needed here, too.
Third, the hardcore set should stop trying to persuade people to use Linux by converting them to the Church of Stallman. Ain’t working.
Fourth, consider Apple: Wed Linux to a specific hardware platform and make it so enticing that people want to buy it.
@Chris Wild
“Chris, I use that product day in day out, and I wouldn’t inflict it on my worst enemy!”
I in fact do not use Eclipse, because it’s slow, and the UI is bad. BUT, I am referring to the Digg.com article where many Linux developers discussed the issue.
http://cnd.netbeans.org
This is in fact the Visual C++ debugger, dev environment on Linux that I like to use. It doesn’t automake conf and makefiles as much as Anjuta, but it has a very good look and feel. I also use it for Java. If you need more hand holding you probably shouldn’t be developing C/C++ code anyway.
The one thing that Visual Studio shines at is automating the make process, because aside from that there really isn’t any difference what so ever between Windows and Linux for C++.
With ant and CND and Anjuta though, much of the configuration and automake is generated well enough that it’s easy to use.
Java development is flawless, and VB with Real Basic or Monodevelop is stupid easy.
So many developers are jumping ship now from Windows to Linux I suppose it won’t be long before people are using Linux for the simple fact that their favorite applications only run on Linux and not Windows or Mac.
@Chris Wild
“Chris, I use that product day in day out, and I wouldn’t inflict it on my worst enemy!”
I in fact do not use Eclipse, because it’s slow, and the UI is bad. BUT, I am referring to the Digg.com article where many Linux developers discussed the issue.
http://cnd.netbeans.org
This is in fact the Visual C++ debugger, dev environment on Linux that I like to use. It doesn’t automake conf and makefiles as much as Anjuta, but it has a very good look and feel. I also use it for Java. If you need more hand holding you probably shouldn’t be developing C/C++ code anyway.
The one thing that Visual Studio shines at is automating the make process, because aside from that there really isn’t any difference what so ever between Windows and Linux for C++.
With ant and CND and Anjuta though, much of the configuration and automake is generated well enough that it’s easy to use.
Java development is flawless, and VB with Real Basic or Monodevelop is stupid easy.
So many developers are jumping ship now from Windows to Linux I suppose it won’t be long before people are using Linux for the simple fact that their favorite applications only run on Linux and not Windows or Mac.
“And, what does the average user gain other than $1-200 buck savings.”
That’s only if they steal the other software, like Photoshop, Premier, Final cut or whatever. If they don’t then the savings is more like a few thousand dollars.
A lot of people also like to do webdesign on localhost which most Linux autoconfigures to /var/www/html. A similar setup on windows will either cost them for a win server license and an extra machine or will be complex to set up with FOSS.
Let’s consider cost as well for proprietary software:
http://www.nero.com//eng/Nero_7_Premium_InfoPage.html
Nero for Windows = $79
http://www.nero.com/eng/NeroLINUX.html
Nero for Linux = $25
Often times companies will offer polished commercial software for Linux at a reduced cost which saves people even more money while retaining commercially professional software.
Nero 3 Linux for example retains most of the polished look and functionality of it’s windows cousin.
“And, what does the average user gain other than $1-200 buck savings.”
That’s only if they steal the other software, like Photoshop, Premier, Final cut or whatever. If they don’t then the savings is more like a few thousand dollars.
A lot of people also like to do webdesign on localhost which most Linux autoconfigures to /var/www/html. A similar setup on windows will either cost them for a win server license and an extra machine or will be complex to set up with FOSS.
Let’s consider cost as well for proprietary software:
http://www.nero.com//eng/Nero_7_Premium_InfoPage.html
Nero for Windows = $79
http://www.nero.com/eng/NeroLINUX.html
Nero for Linux = $25
Often times companies will offer polished commercial software for Linux at a reduced cost which saves people even more money while retaining commercially professional software.
Nero 3 Linux for example retains most of the polished look and functionality of it’s windows cousin.
I know there are lots of Adobe people looking through.
http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20031027/
“Macromedia is committed to supporting our customers in the technologies they choose,” said Susan Morrow, vice president of product management, Macromedia. “We are excited to see how Linux developers will use CrossOver Office 2.1 with its support for Macromedia Dreamweaver MX and Flash MX.”
Why did Adobe drop Linux certification for WINE on Linux as soon as macromedia was purchased by Adobe?
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2155787,00.asp
Dell’s Linux Desktop Line Keeps Expanding
Linux is mushrooming right now as Dell plans to expand it’s new Linux machines across the whole world.
So why did they discontinue Linux support of Flash MX Studio and Photoshop on WINE with codeweavers?
Have they considered doing a native build of the products for Linux with GTK UI at a reduced price in the same way Nero and other companies that do Linux product ports do?
I know they are reading through, so I decided to take a chance. Perhaps JD can answer this one.
I know there are lots of Adobe people looking through.
http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20031027/
“Macromedia is committed to supporting our customers in the technologies they choose,” said Susan Morrow, vice president of product management, Macromedia. “We are excited to see how Linux developers will use CrossOver Office 2.1 with its support for Macromedia Dreamweaver MX and Flash MX.”
Why did Adobe drop Linux certification for WINE on Linux as soon as macromedia was purchased by Adobe?
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2155787,00.asp
Dell’s Linux Desktop Line Keeps Expanding
Linux is mushrooming right now as Dell plans to expand it’s new Linux machines across the whole world.
So why did they discontinue Linux support of Flash MX Studio and Photoshop on WINE with codeweavers?
Have they considered doing a native build of the products for Linux with GTK UI at a reduced price in the same way Nero and other companies that do Linux product ports do?
I know they are reading through, so I decided to take a chance. Perhaps JD can answer this one.
You have to admit the irony of asking whether this will be the year of Linux on the desktop. Do a quick search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Year+of+Linux+Desktop) and in the first three pages of results there are three different “Year of Desktop Linux” results: 2006, 2007 and 2008 (nice to plan ahead…). What’s the old yarn about the definition of insanity? Although not a perfect analogy…preducting the same thing year after year and expecting a different result?
You have to admit the irony of asking whether this will be the year of Linux on the desktop. Do a quick search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Year+of+Linux+Desktop) and in the first three pages of results there are three different “Year of Desktop Linux” results: 2006, 2007 and 2008 (nice to plan ahead…). What’s the old yarn about the definition of insanity? Although not a perfect analogy…preducting the same thing year after year and expecting a different result?
Alejandro…
—–
“do this for every app, and add in ease of installation, and you get a great edge over proprietary software”
But, they don’t need anything else, at least on a Mac. Most consumers won’t even use (or require) all that’s included so no expenditures.
———-
Chris…
—–
“That’s only if they steal the other software, like Photoshop, Premier, Final cut or whatever. If they don’t then the savings is more like a few thousand dollars.”
The average consumer does not use Photoshop, most don’t even use Elements, they use iPhoto (free) or something similar. So, no savings.
—–
“A lot of people also like to do webdesign on localhost”
Uhhh, show me a average user (80% of the market) that wants to do this even though you can on OSX by clicking a checkbox.
———-
The year of the Linux desktop implies wider spread adoption (not just geeks) and most will not gain anything, in fact they will lose because of less polished apps and the lack of integration between/among apps and hardware.
Alejandro…
—–
“do this for every app, and add in ease of installation, and you get a great edge over proprietary software”
But, they don’t need anything else, at least on a Mac. Most consumers won’t even use (or require) all that’s included so no expenditures.
———-
Chris…
—–
“That’s only if they steal the other software, like Photoshop, Premier, Final cut or whatever. If they don’t then the savings is more like a few thousand dollars.”
The average consumer does not use Photoshop, most don’t even use Elements, they use iPhoto (free) or something similar. So, no savings.
—–
“A lot of people also like to do webdesign on localhost”
Uhhh, show me a average user (80% of the market) that wants to do this even though you can on OSX by clicking a checkbox.
———-
The year of the Linux desktop implies wider spread adoption (not just geeks) and most will not gain anything, in fact they will lose because of less polished apps and the lack of integration between/among apps and hardware.
“A lot of people also like to do webdesign on localhost which most Linux autoconfigures to /var/www/html. A similar setup on windows will either cost them for a win server license and an extra machine or will be complex to set up with FOSS.”
You do realize that a lot of windows versions have a built in webserver or you can get wamp or xamp? these are all “Free” alternatives that a lot of web developers should know about.
“A lot of people also like to do webdesign on localhost which most Linux autoconfigures to /var/www/html. A similar setup on windows will either cost them for a win server license and an extra machine or will be complex to set up with FOSS.”
You do realize that a lot of windows versions have a built in webserver or you can get wamp or xamp? these are all “Free” alternatives that a lot of web developers should know about.
[...] Scoble posed the question, “Is 2008 finally going to be the year of Linux on the desktop?” after seeing what current versions of Ubuntu look like. The 3D switching rather impressed [...]
No it is not the year of the Linux desktop. Nor is it the year of the Mac desktop. MS has 80 odd percent marketshare no? But still Dell offers Linux. Still people by Macs. MS should be worried that it’s *not* the Year of Vista either. Slowly but surely, that 80 percent is dropping.
Anyway the key thing IMO is the potential of the open-source community (a large part of which runs linux). For instance, how can a company with 50k employees and millions of dollars at their disposal spend several years preparing a $400.00 OS full of eye-candy only to be beaten to the punch (and then soundly trounced) by a bunch of hacks in their basements who do it all for free? Well they did. And that goes for Apple too. I think you might just find that in a few years that Apple and MS just can’t keep up. Five year release cycles just won’t do anymore.
You’ve got a bunch of paid employees vs. millions of passionate people. You just know who’s gonna win don’t you?
No it is not the year of the Linux desktop. Nor is it the year of the Mac desktop. MS has 80 odd percent marketshare no? But still Dell offers Linux. Still people by Macs. MS should be worried that it’s *not* the Year of Vista either. Slowly but surely, that 80 percent is dropping.
Anyway the key thing IMO is the potential of the open-source community (a large part of which runs linux). For instance, how can a company with 50k employees and millions of dollars at their disposal spend several years preparing a $400.00 OS full of eye-candy only to be beaten to the punch (and then soundly trounced) by a bunch of hacks in their basements who do it all for free? Well they did. And that goes for Apple too. I think you might just find that in a few years that Apple and MS just can’t keep up. Five year release cycles just won’t do anymore.
You’ve got a bunch of paid employees vs. millions of passionate people. You just know who’s gonna win don’t you?
“You’ve got a bunch of paid employees vs. millions of passionate people. You just know who’s gonna win don’t you”
You mean like how Adobe Photoshop lost out to some open source alternative?
“You’ve got a bunch of paid employees vs. millions of passionate people. You just know who’s gonna win don’t you”
You mean like how Adobe Photoshop lost out to some open source alternative?
When I was at Eazel in the 2000, I thought 2001 was going to be the year of Linux on the desktop. There was a great group of developers not just at Eazel, but at several companies making great strides.
Leaving Be for Eazel was like trading in a set of precision tools for stone knives and bear skins, but it seemed like there was a chance to make something great happen. It didn’t quite work out that way.
Many of us went to Apple and the key contributors to almost every one of Apple’s major new technologies came over from Eazel or Be. Safari/WebKit, CoreAnimation/CoreGraphics, Spotlight, the list goes on. A huge amount of talent left the Linux world and moved into the closed or only partially open source world.
Now that I am back at a company using open source tools and contributing again, I am dismayed, but not surprised, at how little has changed. Sure, a distro like Ubuntu is great, but I am not seeing great strides taken with either GNOME or KDE. And when I look at the internals of these libraries, they are light years behind where Apple is. I have no clue how Richar d thinks a bunch of hacks beat Microsoft or Apple to the punch. Linux isn’t even in the ring. Unless there is some sort of major impetus to drive participation, coordination and innovation, Linux will continue to be a fringe competitor. There isn’t millions of Linux hackers out there. The main contributors to the vital components can almost be coutned on two hands. That isn’t good.
“The average consumer does not use Photoshop, most don’t even use Elements, they use iPhoto (free) or something similar. So, no savings.”
If they only use Thunderbird and Firefox to view the web and check email, then what is the point of buying Windows or Mac?
It’s exactly the same across all 3 platforms. Why would you pay when you can use it on Ubuntu for free?
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/04/019215&from=rss
You can say all you want like Windows systems are subsidized ect… with OEM versions, but the truth is Linux systems are cheaper out of box. $50 cheaper to be exact.
There’s no shovelware, and you can use Thunderbird and Firefox just the same.
Our company has a brand new 24″ core duo 2.16 iMac. I think it’s great. But we could also afford it as a non-essential piece of equipment. Most people can’t. Plus upgrades are free.
The reason most buy the Macs is because of the support with graphic major design software and quark. If you take that away you don’t have much left as Beryl is far superior to OSX as far as flashyness is concerned.
“The average consumer does not use Photoshop, most don’t even use Elements, they use iPhoto (free) or something similar. So, no savings.”
If they only use Thunderbird and Firefox to view the web and check email, then what is the point of buying Windows or Mac?
It’s exactly the same across all 3 platforms. Why would you pay when you can use it on Ubuntu for free?
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/04/019215&from=rss
You can say all you want like Windows systems are subsidized ect… with OEM versions, but the truth is Linux systems are cheaper out of box. $50 cheaper to be exact.
There’s no shovelware, and you can use Thunderbird and Firefox just the same.
Our company has a brand new 24″ core duo 2.16 iMac. I think it’s great. But we could also afford it as a non-essential piece of equipment. Most people can’t. Plus upgrades are free.
The reason most buy the Macs is because of the support with graphic major design software and quark. If you take that away you don’t have much left as Beryl is far superior to OSX as far as flashyness is concerned.
When I was at Eazel in the 2000, I thought 2001 was going to be the year of Linux on the desktop. There was a great group of developers not just at Eazel, but at several companies making great strides.
Leaving Be for Eazel was like trading in a set of precision tools for stone knives and bear skins, but it seemed like there was a chance to make something great happen. It didn’t quite work out that way.
Many of us went to Apple and the key contributors to almost every one of Apple’s major new technologies came over from Eazel or Be. Safari/WebKit, CoreAnimation/CoreGraphics, Spotlight, the list goes on. A huge amount of talent left the Linux world and moved into the closed or only partially open source world.
Now that I am back at a company using open source tools and contributing again, I am dismayed, but not surprised, at how little has changed. Sure, a distro like Ubuntu is great, but I am not seeing great strides taken with either GNOME or KDE. And when I look at the internals of these libraries, they are light years behind where Apple is. I have no clue how Richar d thinks a bunch of hacks beat Microsoft or Apple to the punch. Linux isn’t even in the ring. Unless there is some sort of major impetus to drive participation, coordination and innovation, Linux will continue to be a fringe competitor. There isn’t millions of Linux hackers out there. The main contributors to the vital components can almost be coutned on two hands. That isn’t good.
@seshadri
Certain applications like Photoshop (and AutoCAD which I use at work) will maybe never get toppled. But speaking from experience, the mainstream users are not using Photoshop and AutoCAD. We’re talking about being able to browse the web, make a newsletter, organize your photos. In that respect (well almost) there are already perfectly competitive open source products.
My point is that passionate people can be remarkably persistent and do amazing things (not just in the OS realm). The point is that a distro like Ubuntu offers as much value as XP or Mac for absolutely nothing. Whether or not everybody knows that is another thing. But you can’t keep a good man down forever!
No matter how hard Ballmer tries. 
@seshadri
Certain applications like Photoshop (and AutoCAD which I use at work) will maybe never get toppled. But speaking from experience, the mainstream users are not using Photoshop and AutoCAD. We’re talking about being able to browse the web, make a newsletter, organize your photos. In that respect (well almost) there are already perfectly competitive open source products.
My point is that passionate people can be remarkably persistent and do amazing things (not just in the OS realm). The point is that a distro like Ubuntu offers as much value as XP or Mac for absolutely nothing. Whether or not everybody knows that is another thing. But you can’t keep a good man down forever!
No matter how hard Ballmer tries. 
“And when I look at the internals of these libraries, they are light years behind where Apple is.”
How is XCode and cocoa that much better than the latest GTK and Xlib?
Have you checked out the all the new freedesktop extensions to Xlib for compositing ect… ?
We were developing a toolkit for GTK based on XGL and AIGLX, and you can do some pretty neat stuff with that.
What do you think about Cairo?
If Apple is so superior, then why was Safari based on Konqueror, the ugliest Linux browser and KHTML???
I like Apple, I’m just saying.
BTW, we don’t have time to develop the Dark Energy toolkit right now that extended advanced compositing to GTKmm++, but I can send it to you if you want to work on it.
“And when I look at the internals of these libraries, they are light years behind where Apple is.”
How is XCode and cocoa that much better than the latest GTK and Xlib?
Have you checked out the all the new freedesktop extensions to Xlib for compositing ect… ?
We were developing a toolkit for GTK based on XGL and AIGLX, and you can do some pretty neat stuff with that.
What do you think about Cairo?
If Apple is so superior, then why was Safari based on Konqueror, the ugliest Linux browser and KHTML???
I like Apple, I’m just saying.
BTW, we don’t have time to develop the Dark Energy toolkit right now that extended advanced compositing to GTKmm++, but I can send it to you if you want to work on it.
@gene,
Simply put. What does the $400 CDN that I give to MS for Vista Ultimate give me that Ubuntu Linux cannot?
It’s simply not rational for me to run Windows at home anymore (believe me, I did for *years*).
@gene,
Simply put. What does the $400 CDN that I give to MS for Vista Ultimate give me that Ubuntu Linux cannot?
It’s simply not rational for me to run Windows at home anymore (believe me, I did for *years*).
Gene…Thanks for the insight!!!
Gene…Thanks for the insight!!!
“Simply put. What does the $400 CDN that I give to MS for Vista Ultimate give me that Ubuntu Linux cannot?”
Richard, it’s actually $500 + 15% sales tax at most places.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=763420072&size=o
I’d give you a link, but office depot requires a valid zip code. Americans can use G1P 4M3 to view it.
So that’s $575 CAD for Vista on 1 single computer, because of the Activation checks.
With the US/Canada exchange rate being about 4.9%
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=USD&to=CAD&submit=Convert
It will cost Canadians $547 USD for EVERY single computer they own. When ultimately it would have cost them nothing to do the same Email and Web with Mozilla programs on Ubuntu.
This isn’t fiction, it’s fact.
“Simply put. What does the $400 CDN that I give to MS for Vista Ultimate give me that Ubuntu Linux cannot?”
Richard, it’s actually $500 + 15% sales tax at most places.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=763420072&size=o
I’d give you a link, but office depot requires a valid zip code. Americans can use G1P 4M3 to view it.
So that’s $575 CAD for Vista on 1 single computer, because of the Activation checks.
With the US/Canada exchange rate being about 4.9%
http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=USD&to=CAD&submit=Convert
It will cost Canadians $547 USD for EVERY single computer they own. When ultimately it would have cost them nothing to do the same Email and Web with Mozilla programs on Ubuntu.
This isn’t fiction, it’s fact.
I have been using Ubuntu since March of this year, I am by no means a “geek” yet though I am working my way up to it. I will tell you that I am far more comfortable using this than I ever was with windows. I had vista and it ate my hard drive up like it was candy, and ran poorly.
With Feisty, I get all the eye candy I could ever want with far more control than with Vista, and I can use wine when i need to go windows for some reason, but that is hardly ever.
I have every single program I need, I run some blogs, and do some heavy research on the net… and it has been smooth sailing for me. I do my own programming when I need a new application, if I need help there is the Ubuntu forums, its perfect for a new user.
As far as I am concerned.. Windoze can keep Vista, I have what I need right here and I did not have to pay 800.00 for it either.
I have been using Ubuntu since March of this year, I am by no means a “geek” yet though I am working my way up to it. I will tell you that I am far more comfortable using this than I ever was with windows. I had vista and it ate my hard drive up like it was candy, and ran poorly.
With Feisty, I get all the eye candy I could ever want with far more control than with Vista, and I can use wine when i need to go windows for some reason, but that is hardly ever.
I have every single program I need, I run some blogs, and do some heavy research on the net… and it has been smooth sailing for me. I do my own programming when I need a new application, if I need help there is the Ubuntu forums, its perfect for a new user.
As far as I am concerned.. Windoze can keep Vista, I have what I need right here and I did not have to pay 800.00 for it either.
[...] to be “year of Linux on the desktop?” Posted on July 9, 2007 by Ian Betteridge Robert asks is 2008 finally going to be “year of Linux on the desktop?”: “What do you think? Is this finally Linux’ time on the desktop? Is it getting good enough [...]
“Certain applications like Photoshop (and AutoCAD which I use at work) will maybe never get toppled.”
Why? Why hasn’t open source with millions of passionate users come up with a better free photo editing software. you can’t have separate rules for OS and applications.
I always thought it would be easier for open source and Linux to gain ground by having a excellent set of open source application and not the other way round. But even after so many ‘Years of Linux & opensource’ there is not a single mainstream open source application on top of its category.
It’s tough to believe that all of a sudden things will change in 2008
“Certain applications like Photoshop (and AutoCAD which I use at work) will maybe never get toppled.”
Why? Why hasn’t open source with millions of passionate users come up with a better free photo editing software. you can’t have separate rules for OS and applications.
I always thought it would be easier for open source and Linux to gain ground by having a excellent set of open source application and not the other way round. But even after so many ‘Years of Linux & opensource’ there is not a single mainstream open source application on top of its category.
It’s tough to believe that all of a sudden things will change in 2008
@seshadri
“Certain applications like Photoshop (and AutoCAD which I use at work) will maybe never get toppled.”
http://www.alias.com/eng/support/maya/qualified_hardware/QUAL/maya_80_linux.html
Linux is a platform. Not an application. It hosts applications.
This isn’t Adobe vs. Linux. Adobe can build it’s sources on Linux with some UI modifications and they can sell the product on Linux. Just like Nero and Maya.
Linux is not closed to Photoshop, Final Cut, Quickbooks and AutoCAD.
Linux as a platform invites Adobe to come and develop applications for it such as other companies have. Once they do Linux will further grow and mature until it is essentially a free and open version of what you perceive windows being today.
@seshadri
“Certain applications like Photoshop (and AutoCAD which I use at work) will maybe never get toppled.”
http://www.alias.com/eng/support/maya/qualified_hardware/QUAL/maya_80_linux.html
Linux is a platform. Not an application. It hosts applications.
This isn’t Adobe vs. Linux. Adobe can build it’s sources on Linux with some UI modifications and they can sell the product on Linux. Just like Nero and Maya.
Linux is not closed to Photoshop, Final Cut, Quickbooks and AutoCAD.
Linux as a platform invites Adobe to come and develop applications for it such as other companies have. Once they do Linux will further grow and mature until it is essentially a free and open version of what you perceive windows being today.
Chris,
“How is XCode and cocoa that much better than the latest GTK and Xlib?”
I have written major applications in both GTK and QT. You can see my work in many places in GNOME. GTK as a framework may come close to Cocoa in some aspects. There is nothing close to XCode as an IDE on Linux and Glade can’t even be compared to Interface Builder. I wish it could.
“Have you checked out the all the new freedesktop extensions to Xlib for compositing ect… ?”
Yes. I am working with all of that right now. I am working on some serious apps for creating feature length animated films and am using every conceivable extension and trick to squeeze out the same level of performance, ease of use and sophistication that Mac developers get for free with Quartz and CoreAnimation.
“What do you think about Cairo?”
I love it. Cairo and Pango are great.
“If Apple is so superior, then why was Safari based on Konqueror, the ugliest Linux browser and KHTML???”
I can’t even begin to answer this, which is more of an editorial posed as a question.
“I like Apple, I’m just saying.
BTW, we don’t have time to develop the Dark Energy toolkit right now that extended advanced compositing to GTKmm++, but I can send it to you if you want to work on it.”
It sounds like you know a lot about using the latest and greatest extensions and tricks with X. I would love to talk to you more about that. Thanks!
Chris,
“How is XCode and cocoa that much better than the latest GTK and Xlib?”
I have written major applications in both GTK and QT. You can see my work in many places in GNOME. GTK as a framework may come close to Cocoa in some aspects. There is nothing close to XCode as an IDE on Linux and Glade can’t even be compared to Interface Builder. I wish it could.
“Have you checked out the all the new freedesktop extensions to Xlib for compositing ect… ?”
Yes. I am working with all of that right now. I am working on some serious apps for creating feature length animated films and am using every conceivable extension and trick to squeeze out the same level of performance, ease of use and sophistication that Mac developers get for free with Quartz and CoreAnimation.
“What do you think about Cairo?”
I love it. Cairo and Pango are great.
“If Apple is so superior, then why was Safari based on Konqueror, the ugliest Linux browser and KHTML???”
I can’t even begin to answer this, which is more of an editorial posed as a question.
“I like Apple, I’m just saying.
BTW, we don’t have time to develop the Dark Energy toolkit right now that extended advanced compositing to GTKmm++, but I can send it to you if you want to work on it.”
It sounds like you know a lot about using the latest and greatest extensions and tricks with X. I would love to talk to you more about that. Thanks!
People need to realize…Ubuntu and other Linux distros are Operating Systems.
iLife and iTunes and all that other stuff is software. Apple integrates it into their operating system because Apple develops that software.
And to those that say that Linux is hard for the mainstream user obviously haven’t tried Linux for a while. Pretty much any recent Debian based distro (like the Ubuntu flavors, Dreamlinux, etc.) are very easy to use and migrate to.
My wife, who knows absolutely nothing about computers, XP or Linux, likes using Linux better than XP. She says it’s faster.
The Linux operating system is also no where near a copy of Windows. The only things similar on Linux to windows is the Desktop environments. And even then, they’re much more similar to Mac’s desktop environment.
For those of you that haven’t used Linux in a while, don’t comment on what you don’t know or keep up with.
People need to realize…Ubuntu and other Linux distros are Operating Systems.
iLife and iTunes and all that other stuff is software. Apple integrates it into their operating system because Apple develops that software.
And to those that say that Linux is hard for the mainstream user obviously haven’t tried Linux for a while. Pretty much any recent Debian based distro (like the Ubuntu flavors, Dreamlinux, etc.) are very easy to use and migrate to.
My wife, who knows absolutely nothing about computers, XP or Linux, likes using Linux better than XP. She says it’s faster.
The Linux operating system is also no where near a copy of Windows. The only things similar on Linux to windows is the Desktop environments. And even then, they’re much more similar to Mac’s desktop environment.
For those of you that haven’t used Linux in a while, don’t comment on what you don’t know or keep up with.