Jakob Nielsen’s Web 1.0 post today sends lots of gestures:
1. Don’t do quick posts like Scoble.
2. Don’t risk being an idiot like Scoble.
3. Don’t put comments on your idiocy like Scoble.
4. Don’t link to other idiots like Scoble.
5. If you want to seem like you know something, unlike Scoble, write long ass white papers with lots of charts.
6. Don’t have fun like that idiot Scoble.
7. Don’t you dare put pictures of cats or babies or other personal details up like Scoble does.
8. Don’t add Web 2.0 mechanisms to your Web site like Scoble does. Definitely no “del.icio.us” or “Digg” voting graphics.
9. Don’t get caught dead inside an Apple store like Scoble does.
10. Don’t give Fake Steve or Valleywag a reason to deride you like Scoble does.
11. Definitely don’t get close to Twitter/Jaiku/Pownce/Facebook like Scoble does. If you can say it in 140 characters you shouldn’t say it at all.
OK, he didn’t quite say all of those things on his Web site today.
Well, I wish I could tell you the truth about Jacob (he worked for me back in the 1990s at one of our conferences — we never hired him again) but Steve Wozniak taught me to never say anything if I can’t say something nice about someone.
Yes, I am a sucker for good link bait. Sorry. Guilty as charged. I’m not the only one.
I will say this, it’s amazing that we’re listening to a guy who has an uglier Web site than I do.
Oh, wait, he just wrote a post worthy of Valleywag or Fake Steve except he doesn’t have comments, doesn’t have trackbacks, and used about 2,000 words to say something a better writer would say in about 300 words.
Heh!
“Oh, wait, he just wrote a post worthy of Valleywag or Fake Steve except he doesn’t have comments, doesn’t have trackbacks, and used about 2,000 words to say something a better writer would say in about 300 words.”
LOL…you could be describing Thurrott or Gruber! I love them both, I really do, but OMG…sometimes less IS more.
Ha, that’s funny Robert. I haven’t ready any of Jacobs stuff in nearly 10 years.
Ha, that’s funny Robert. I haven’t ready any of Jacobs stuff in nearly 10 years.
Years back when I worked as a usability engineer on a large financial institutions web site I was forced to suffer through one of Jakobs conferences. Talk about full of himself, among other things he is full of. Typical web elitist. If it isn’t done to his personal view of perfection it shouldn’t be done at all. Luckily for the rest of us mere mortals the web and its use by the unwashed masses moves forward despite the discomfort it causes some.
Years back when I worked as a usability engineer on a large financial institutions web site I was forced to suffer through one of Jakobs conferences. Talk about full of himself, among other things he is full of. Typical web elitist. If it isn’t done to his personal view of perfection it shouldn’t be done at all. Luckily for the rest of us mere mortals the web and its use by the unwashed masses moves forward despite the discomfort it causes some.
You’re so vain, I bet you think that post is about you…
You’re so vain, I bet you think that post is about you…
Hmmmm. I think i need to write something bad about you. Seems to be a good way to get linked and getting a +1 in the google ranking
But you could give yourself a “scoble-rank”. just add a number after each posting you make that indicates how many “scoble-points” you did.
ps:
12. Do not post about iPhones like Scoble does.
Hmmmm. I think i need to write something bad about you. Seems to be a good way to get linked and getting a +1 in the google ranking
But you could give yourself a “scoble-rank”. just add a number after each posting you make that indicates how many “scoble-points” you did.
ps:
12. Do not post about iPhones like Scoble does.
[...] Various good discussions have been started on the topic, and are worth scanning at The Guardian and Robert Scoble’s blog, who takes it almost personally. We primarily write short posts on subjects that we find relevant [...]
I was going to read Jakob’s post to better understand the context of your counter but I became terribly uninterested after the first paragraph.
I was going to read Jakob’s post to better understand the context of your counter but I became terribly uninterested after the first paragraph.
I’m not getting in the middle of this particular food fight. Ah, hell… Yes I am!
Did you see where Marc Andreesen’s closed comments on his pmarca blog (trackbacks for the last 20). I *LOVE* that Akismet has helped us to keep comments open when and where we want to. I wouldn’t blog if it weren’t for solutions like theirs. Wonder how closing comments helps/hurts rocket-propelled people like Dr. Schwartz, Messrs. Andreesen, Cuban, Kawasaki, Godin? Their blogs… still, it seems to be making a gesture at those who would comment/contribute. (I’ll talk at you, dispensing wisdom from the mountain top. But, don’t you try to annoy me padewan.) Could we coax a rehash out of you on that one?
I’m not getting in the middle of this particular food fight. Ah, hell… Yes I am!
Did you see where Marc Andreesen’s closed comments on his pmarca blog (trackbacks for the last 20). I *LOVE* that Akismet has helped us to keep comments open when and where we want to. I wouldn’t blog if it weren’t for solutions like theirs. Wonder how closing comments helps/hurts rocket-propelled people like Dr. Schwartz, Messrs. Andreesen, Cuban, Kawasaki, Godin? Their blogs… still, it seems to be making a gesture at those who would comment/contribute. (I’ll talk at you, dispensing wisdom from the mountain top. But, don’t you try to annoy me padewan.) Could we coax a rehash out of you on that one?
@David Scott Lewis – Forgive me but having critiqued Scoble on the grounds of ego, you put up a second post just to let know that you’re posting from China?!?
Anyway, if ego was a crime, we’d all be strung up.
@Scoble – one of the things I love about your blog is the shoot-from-the-hip quotient but really, trying to start a flame war with Nielsen?
@David Scott Lewis – Forgive me but having critiqued Scoble on the grounds of ego, you put up a second post just to let know that you’re posting from China?!?
Anyway, if ego was a crime, we’d all be strung up.
@Scoble – one of the things I love about your blog is the shoot-from-the-hip quotient but really, trying to start a flame war with Nielsen?
I find it hilarious that this summary: “To demonstrate world-class expertise, avoid quickly written, shallow postings. Instead, invest your time in thorough, value-added content that attracts paying customers.” is really all he needs, a perfect tweet… The fact that Nielsen would then go on for thousands of words talking it all to death just wreaks of self-aggrandizing narcissism, so much for brevity in his thesis. It’s rare Mr. Scoble, but damn I agree with you on this one!
I find it hilarious that this summary: “To demonstrate world-class expertise, avoid quickly written, shallow postings. Instead, invest your time in thorough, value-added content that attracts paying customers.” is really all he needs, a perfect tweet… The fact that Nielsen would then go on for thousands of words talking it all to death just wreaks of self-aggrandizing narcissism, so much for brevity in his thesis. It’s rare Mr. Scoble, but damn I agree with you on this one!
As a web user and a blogger, I have only one thing to say:
If you want to know how NOT to design your website for usability and user-friendliness, see the Guru Jakob Nielsen’s own website: http://www.useit.com/
I regret the day I spent money on his book which arguably is better packaged than the website itself.
As a web user and a blogger, I have only one thing to say:
If you want to know how NOT to design your website for usability and user-friendliness, see the Guru Jakob Nielsen’s own website: http://www.useit.com/
I regret the day I spent money on his book which arguably is better packaged than the website itself.
[...] by the comments on blogs like Scobleizer and Marketing Roadmaps, there may quite a few people who don’t think so. Personally, I [...]
This I love:
“… and used about 2,000 words to say something a better writer would say in about 300 words.”
Straight out of Strunk and White – “The Elements of Style” which sits on my desk and says things like:
“Omit needless words”
When he could have said “Use no unnecessary words.”
… A 25% savings.
This I love:
“… and used about 2,000 words to say something a better writer would say in about 300 words.”
Straight out of Strunk and White – “The Elements of Style” which sits on my desk and says things like:
“Omit needless words”
When he could have said “Use no unnecessary words.”
… A 25% savings.
[...] by a post today by Robert Scoble where he [...]
I generally agree with his Jakob’s analysis. I’ve not found one blogger that is worth reading all the time. At most their are only a few worthwhile posts per week. What’s the point of wasting my life reading through all the BS?
You are totally overreacting here. Did he even mention you in the post?
I generally agree with his Jakob’s analysis. I’ve not found one blogger that is worth reading all the time. At most their are only a few worthwhile posts per week. What’s the point of wasting my life reading through all the BS?
You are totally overreacting here. Did he even mention you in the post?
control+f on the term “scoble”
On his page turns up nothing.
http://mashable.com/2007/04/21/web-startups-and-the-lying-liars-that-lie-about-them/
I find that this article is more true to life when describing most A-list bloggers. It would seem like the more grandiose and disjoint one is from reality, the better they are at blogging.
Sort of like if they say something has value, it is now valuable, because they said so.
I pity the people who take them seriously.
control+f on the term “scoble”
On his page turns up nothing.
http://mashable.com/2007/04/21/web-startups-and-the-lying-liars-that-lie-about-them/
I find that this article is more true to life when describing most A-list bloggers. It would seem like the more grandiose and disjoint one is from reality, the better they are at blogging.
Sort of like if they say something has value, it is now valuable, because they said so.
I pity the people who take them seriously.
I thought trolling was reserved for comments and message boards, rather than full on blog postings. I hate reading the response on blogs from people who dare to criticise the way bloggers do things. It’s never done with any intelligence or grace, or any interest in discovering whether the contrary opinion holds any truth. (A life rule I hold strongly to is that if someone can completely disagree with you, then it’s almost certain there is some truth in what they believe and some false in what you believe, and that you service yourself by seeking both out.)
It’s always a knee-jerk “no your mum!” response, just like this post. It’s like a school playground for adults.
I thought trolling was reserved for comments and message boards, rather than full on blog postings. I hate reading the response on blogs from people who dare to criticise the way bloggers do things. It’s never done with any intelligence or grace, or any interest in discovering whether the contrary opinion holds any truth. (A life rule I hold strongly to is that if someone can completely disagree with you, then it’s almost certain there is some truth in what they believe and some false in what you believe, and that you service yourself by seeking both out.)
It’s always a knee-jerk “no your mum!” response, just like this post. It’s like a school playground for adults.
Gosh Scoble,
Maybe fake Steve Jobs is right; maybe you are resorting to increasingly desperate measures to stay relevant in your post Microsoft career.
Seriously, it would have been better to blog a response disputing Nielsen’s article instead of taking a hissy fit and making veiled jabs at why you wouldnt hire him again.
Nielsen 1, Scoble 0.
Gosh Scoble,
Maybe fake Steve Jobs is right; maybe you are resorting to increasingly desperate measures to stay relevant in your post Microsoft career.
Seriously, it would have been better to blog a response disputing Nielsen’s article instead of taking a hissy fit and making veiled jabs at why you wouldnt hire him again.
Nielsen 1, Scoble 0.
George: of course Nielsen’s rant holds some truth. So does Keen’s. The problem is both of these guys are bombasts for marketing reasons. Keen’s editor actually stripped out any balance from his book so that it would “sell” better.
I figure if it’s good for them, might be good for me too.
Mark: you assume I actually had any relevance at Microsoft in the first place. Thank you, but I think it was over hyped.
George: of course Nielsen’s rant holds some truth. So does Keen’s. The problem is both of these guys are bombasts for marketing reasons. Keen’s editor actually stripped out any balance from his book so that it would “sell” better.
I figure if it’s good for them, might be good for me too.
Mark: you assume I actually had any relevance at Microsoft in the first place. Thank you, but I think it was over hyped.
Wow, man. You really know how to suck people into your site! 70+ comments from an entry based on taking something out of context and throwing a fit. Marketing genius you are, sir. Bravo.
Wow, man. You really know how to suck people into your site! 70+ comments from an entry based on taking something out of context and throwing a fit. Marketing genius you are, sir. Bravo.
Cooljcookie: it’s a skill. Starbucks still charges me $3.10 for a latte, though.
Cooljcookie: it’s a skill. Starbucks still charges me $3.10 for a latte, though.
Blog discussion or plain fight
Last post was about the more you post, the better it will be for your traffic for your blog. As I’m on a business trip at the moment, this was a couple of days ago. Funny that I write about
What does all of this mean anyway? All I can see is Robert disagreeing with Jakob. So what?
What does all of this mean anyway? All I can see is Robert disagreeing with Jakob. So what?
Bravo, Scoble! Thank heavens that someone’s finally told the king of Usabilitania that he’s got no clothes.
I guess that’s not quite the right analogy. In the Grimm fairy tale the boy is innocent and unthinking, while the king is stupid and unthinking and accepts the word of a couple of rogues. The boy hits on the truth, albeit accidentally.
But here I think the difference is that Scoble is fresh and airy, bouncy and lively and still uncertain, whereas Nielsen is earnest and plodding and academic and very heavy in his certainty.
Hare and tortoise? Three little pigs? There’s probably a good fairy tale analogy somewhere here.
Bravo, Scoble! Thank heavens that someone’s finally told the king of Usabilitania that he’s got no clothes.
I guess that’s not quite the right analogy. In the Grimm fairy tale the boy is innocent and unthinking, while the king is stupid and unthinking and accepts the word of a couple of rogues. The boy hits on the truth, albeit accidentally.
But here I think the difference is that Scoble is fresh and airy, bouncy and lively and still uncertain, whereas Nielsen is earnest and plodding and academic and very heavy in his certainty.
Hare and tortoise? Three little pigs? There’s probably a good fairy tale analogy somewhere here.
Scoble,
Personalities, history, and foibles aside, there are many roads that lead to Rome, and Neilsen has picked out one that works for him.
He’s specifically targeting that method to less than 1% of the population, and specifically targeting that method to in-depth, complex, multi-faceted business challenges.
As such, that makes perfect sense.
Your blog, on the other hand, is short bits that invariably link elsewhere, keeping reading on top of developing news, conversations, trends, etc. Totally different purpose, totally different form, totally different style.
He is Encyclopedia Britannica; you are watercooler. Both are good, both are needed, both are valuable.
They’re just different.
(And btw, yes, his design sucks, and yes, he needs to update it.)
Scoble,
Personalities, history, and foibles aside, there are many roads that lead to Rome, and Neilsen has picked out one that works for him.
He’s specifically targeting that method to less than 1% of the population, and specifically targeting that method to in-depth, complex, multi-faceted business challenges.
As such, that makes perfect sense.
Your blog, on the other hand, is short bits that invariably link elsewhere, keeping reading on top of developing news, conversations, trends, etc. Totally different purpose, totally different form, totally different style.
He is Encyclopedia Britannica; you are watercooler. Both are good, both are needed, both are valuable.
They’re just different.
(And btw, yes, his design sucks, and yes, he needs to update it.)
[...] Jakob Nielsen says “don’t be like Scoble” Jakob Nielsen’s Web 1.0 post today sends lots of gestures: 1. Don’t do quick posts like Scoble. 2. […] [...]
Keen and Nielsen are coming at this issue from totally different perspectives, so to lump them together is ridiculous. I wrote a piece about Keen in one of my recent AlwaysOn Network columns. Keen’s point has much more to do with signal-to-noise. And I’d argue that his personal views are even harsher than what was published in his book: Just view the video of him during his AO OnHollywood panel. He’s a “50 bloggers might matter and shoot the rest” kind of guy. My solution was to come up with better metrics, better search techniques, NOT to shoot all the bloggers, so I view Keen as way too extreme.
Nielsen is a UXD (user experience design) guy with a lot of credentials. The fact that he has one of the ugliest sights is, in fact, a good contrast to what UXD is all about: It is NOT about Flash, AJAX, or any of the latest tools from Microsoft, Adobe or Sun. It’s a Jakob Nielsen vs. Ryan Stewart sort of thing. Both have their place. Nielsen is more strategic, Stewart is more tactical. Nielsen without Stewart is a bunch of theory; Stewart without Nielsen is graphic for graphics sake, doing things because they can be done, not because they should be done.
Another problem with the whole UXD field is that too many claim expertise in this subject matter. It’s way too easy to add our personal perspectives — and biases — to a UXD discussion. It’s also harder to prove that one way is better than another; metrics are all over the map. You pick one metric to prove that you’re right; I’ll pick another metric to prove that I’m right.
This kind of stuff doesn’t happen as easily in areas like search, or certainly in areas like bioinformatics. Sure, there are a lot of differing perspectives. Take a look at a batch of scholarly research on any of these topics and you’ll find lots of different positions. But Steve Jobs can say that he likes this UI better than another; he can’t really say that his favorite search algorithm is necessarily better than another search algorithm unless he’s able to get into a discussion which is likely way over his head. Yet, with all things UI design/UXD related, everyone seems to have an opinion. It’s much more emotional than cerebral. In some companies, a UI design gets feedback from just about everyone including the janitorial staff. UI aspects of search can be this way, e.g., the new Ask UI. But I doubt that everyone chimed in on which algorithms to use, how to integrated Ask results into a KM system. This is the unfortunate state of UXD: Everyone, regardless of qualifications, can add their 2 cents.
Also, Robert, just because you’re a success, it doesn’t mean that you’re not a statistical outlier. You were early, you had the backing of Microsoft, you played the game. How many others have tried to copy you or Arrington but with limited (or no) success? Read/Write Web, yes. Some have, sure. But how many have failed trying? So just because something works for you, don’t assume it will work for everyone. Twitter is a PERFECT example of something that will have EXTREMELY limited appeal, but you seem to love it.
My point: You and a lot of the A-list bloggers are NOT early adopters; you’re more often than not statistical outliers. Twitter, Second Life, all sorts of other crap. Fun for a while, but stuff that will die, will simply become a footnote in web annals.
@Michael Clarke, the only reason I mentioned that I was blogging from China was due to the time stamp on the comment. If it wasn’t stamped at nearly 4 am, I wouldn’t have said anything. Besides, being in China is NOT an ego experience; it’s more like being in purgatory, but I have my personal reasons (and some professional reasons) for staying here.
Keen and Nielsen are coming at this issue from totally different perspectives, so to lump them together is ridiculous. I wrote a piece about Keen in one of my recent AlwaysOn Network columns. Keen’s point has much more to do with signal-to-noise. And I’d argue that his personal views are even harsher than what was published in his book: Just view the video of him during his AO OnHollywood panel. He’s a “50 bloggers might matter and shoot the rest” kind of guy. My solution was to come up with better metrics, better search techniques, NOT to shoot all the bloggers, so I view Keen as way too extreme.
Nielsen is a UXD (user experience design) guy with a lot of credentials. The fact that he has one of the ugliest sights is, in fact, a good contrast to what UXD is all about: It is NOT about Flash, AJAX, or any of the latest tools from Microsoft, Adobe or Sun. It’s a Jakob Nielsen vs. Ryan Stewart sort of thing. Both have their place. Nielsen is more strategic, Stewart is more tactical. Nielsen without Stewart is a bunch of theory; Stewart without Nielsen is graphic for graphics sake, doing things because they can be done, not because they should be done.
Another problem with the whole UXD field is that too many claim expertise in this subject matter. It’s way too easy to add our personal perspectives — and biases — to a UXD discussion. It’s also harder to prove that one way is better than another; metrics are all over the map. You pick one metric to prove that you’re right; I’ll pick another metric to prove that I’m right.
This kind of stuff doesn’t happen as easily in areas like search, or certainly in areas like bioinformatics. Sure, there are a lot of differing perspectives. Take a look at a batch of scholarly research on any of these topics and you’ll find lots of different positions. But Steve Jobs can say that he likes this UI better than another; he can’t really say that his favorite search algorithm is necessarily better than another search algorithm unless he’s able to get into a discussion which is likely way over his head. Yet, with all things UI design/UXD related, everyone seems to have an opinion. It’s much more emotional than cerebral. In some companies, a UI design gets feedback from just about everyone including the janitorial staff. UI aspects of search can be this way, e.g., the new Ask UI. But I doubt that everyone chimed in on which algorithms to use, how to integrated Ask results into a KM system. This is the unfortunate state of UXD: Everyone, regardless of qualifications, can add their 2 cents.
Also, Robert, just because you’re a success, it doesn’t mean that you’re not a statistical outlier. You were early, you had the backing of Microsoft, you played the game. How many others have tried to copy you or Arrington but with limited (or no) success? Read/Write Web, yes. Some have, sure. But how many have failed trying? So just because something works for you, don’t assume it will work for everyone. Twitter is a PERFECT example of something that will have EXTREMELY limited appeal, but you seem to love it.
My point: You and a lot of the A-list bloggers are NOT early adopters; you’re more often than not statistical outliers. Twitter, Second Life, all sorts of other crap. Fun for a while, but stuff that will die, will simply become a footnote in web annals.
@Michael Clarke, the only reason I mentioned that I was blogging from China was due to the time stamp on the comment. If it wasn’t stamped at nearly 4 am, I wouldn’t have said anything. Besides, being in China is NOT an ego experience; it’s more like being in purgatory, but I have my personal reasons (and some professional reasons) for staying here.
[...] of the Day: Be more like Scoble and less like [...]
David: Twitter might be extremely limited, but seems to be doing just fine, even with two very good competitors (and with Facebook too).
http://www.twittervision.com is seeing TONS of Twitters every few seconds. It is so “not popular” that I can’t keep up.
I have been called a statistical outlier many times before. When personal computers came out many people said that only weird geeks would use them.
When email came along, I remember people telling me no one needs that.
When IM came along and I was early then people told me that only kids would use it and that businesses would never use it.
Etc. Etc.
You forget that there aren’t many Alisters, but there are millions of bloggers out there with more being added every day (and that’s after subtracting out the spam ones).
Nielsen has credentials, sure. But I think he studies the late followers too much. That causes many people to miss the ball. The world is changing. But Nielsen’s data still shows the way the world is, not the way the world is changing to.
If that gets me derided as an outlier, so be it.
But it’s the statistical outliers who’ll tell you where the world will be tomorrow. Not the guys like Nielsen who study the way the world is yesterday.