Warner Music: why do you fund this crap?

Robert: I never mentioned you by name.

You know guys… instead of hitting refresh on the comments to get the last word, you could both head outside and catch the Perseid Meteor shower that is going on as we speak:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20187088?GT1=10252

Alright… enough mediation for one night I’m heading to bed!

@sean,

Thank you for saving me the time. I was gathering my thoughts to say pretty much what you said more clearly and eloquently than me. I was startled at the ferocity of Robert’s post here. I didn’t see any hypocrisy in Ethan’s post.

Where is the requirement that before you can critique anything you must first critique your own employer and denounce any practices that seem harmful?

Why would Ethan get a free pass over the RIAA harrassment of customers on downloading, but only get called when 60 Minutes runs a “stop snitchin’” piece?

Snitching will soon be obsolete anyway as we move rapidly to a total surveillance society.

BTW, Hip-hop is proto-blogging. Commercial exploitation of hip-hop is proto-spamming.

Something to ponder and investigate: Anderson Cooper, who reported the story on CBS also works for Time Warner subsidiary CNN. Did he run this story on CNN? Is he a hypocrite, or a ratings or whore?

Ethan raised some legit questions about Gnomedex. Rather than advance the conversation and engage Ethan on either Gnomedex or TW, Robert went into attack mode. I wonder why?

@51 Sorry Ethan, gotta pull the bs card on this one..
http://tinyurl.com/2ze8yr

that being said, let’s stop and give ethan some credit for being the kid on the titanic with a bucket and the know-how to use it.

and for the record this post is scored
Ethan 1 / Scoble 0

Robert, I think the basic conflict between you and Ethan is one of shallowness versus substance. He sees through the typical blogosphere persona, heavy on self-importance, but lightweight on everything else. You represent that persona, so of course you feel offended when someone criticizes it. Ethan is still very young so he hasn’t conformed to expectations. . .yet.

As for the ‘no snitching’ campaign, I’m ambivalent. As the fellow from Sweden said relations between the police and the poor are often adversarial. It makes sense to inform regarding crime only if doing so is likely to have a beneficial effect. But, if the police and the justice system consider a class or race of people ‘the enemy’ and are eager to degrade, even kill, them, cooperation is not a good idea. Besides, most people have common sense and can judge for themselves whether to inform or keep mum.

Ironically, I was reading about the case in Louisiana in which a racist power structure is terrorizing black teenagers as if it were the 1950s earlier today:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20218937/site/newsweek/

What rappers say is the least of their problems.

Furthermore, reading this incoherent entry was painful for someone who cares about writing. It was a pleasure to read Ethan’s literate entry afterward.

Podesta: the problem is your attack on me lacks its own depth.

Since Gnomedex began I’ve put up 40 minute interview with one of the world’s top computer science professors, a long discussion about the beginnings of the personal computer operating system business, and tonight I put up a lengthy interview with IBM’s top intellectual property lawyer. All in the past few days.

If that’s “superficiality” then please show me some depth out there that I can consume.

And I won’t even bring up all the blogs I just put on my link blog that come to a high bar.

Maybe the thing that got me mad is that Ethan is pointing his gun at blogs without looking at himself first.

“Bullshit. Everyone in society has a responsibility to speak up against evil. This kind of thinking is what brought us Hitler.”

That’s a bit harsh Robert and I appreciate you feel strongly about it but consider this.

IBM supplied the computers to Hitler that provided the way of keeping records in the concentration camps. Irving is on record as questioning that premise yet the New York originated contracts are available to view. The profits on which supplies were collected after WWII.

Dennis: and is that right? Should someone have spoken up about it back then?

I hope I would have if I were there.

My mom’s mom spoke up against Hitler at great risk to her own family.

I’m too tired to be intellectual right now and I’ve already engaged in Twitter battles tonight.

Short version: two different topics being merged into one; yes I agree fully with Ethan on the ego chamber issue; no I haven’t read the Warner issue in full, but probably because it’s an entirely different subject that keeps getting dragged into another conversation. And please, enough with the comparing of a media company INFINITELY older than Microsoft. You’re acting like he’s the CEO. What next? Blame him for locking the Animaniacs in the water tower?

This is EXACTLY the problem. Talking ’round in circles, and then cap off with your own accomplishments. I can set the clock on my iPhoneiPhoneiPhone by this. Over and over and over it’s the EXACT SAME THING DUDE.

This is why the shine on the A-list is tarnishing and more than likely why the subconscious defensive position is predictably taken. I swear if it’s not Dave crawling up on the cross, Jason taking -any- mention of Mahalo and spinning it in his PR, or the 3428934728374 references to video you’ve done (and throw in the Valleywag/TechCrunch rags for being the peanut gallery), then auugghh I don’t know.

Bottom line. The Warner story is another issue and you know it.

The ones who have 34829048 friends and read 2380472348907 blogs and invented the internet 387429387 times are being accused of being blowhards. ADDRESS IT. I mean ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Which, sadly, I don’t believe will every happen. And as a veteran blogger, podcaster, vlogger, metaverser, doer, thinker, futurist, whatever you want to call me, the problem is simple.

As a blogger for the time and you’ll get the history of the watch.

You’ll help big media become stronger if you don’t get there yourself first.

This, I believe.

Also, nice to see Godwin’s Law is still alive and well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Nazis? Hitler? Come ON.

Robert says: “This kind of thinking is what brought us Hitler.”

Dammit, Eric beat me to invoking Godwin’s Law

But the fundamental point he makes is correct: whether you are right about Ethan’s need to examine how he feels about the “no snitching” issue makes absolutely no difference to whether he’s correct about what’s happening at Gnomedex. None at all. The two are completely separate arguments. You can argue that Ethan’s not being consistent, but again, this doesn’t make his argument any less right on its own merits.

Robert, when you combine looking at someone’s argument with an attack on them, then you make your own case look weaker. Please, address Ethan’s arguments instead of trying to score points on him. I think you have something interesting to say on his arguments – unfortunately, this post doesn’t contain it.

Ian and Eric,

I believe the two ARE joined. I’m going to keep the reason they are joined to myself for a second. Instead, let’s look at Ethan’s post.

**I just hate the fact that you have these blowhard hacks who suck the life of the room with their own sense of self important.**

And yet did Ethan solve anything other than sucking us down his OWN self-important blast on other people?

I agree with the premise that Ethan has here. That other people don’t always bring light. They don’t seek truth. They aren’t nice. They don’t teach. Jason, for instance, pushed his product to a captive audience. At least when CEOs do it on my show you can close the video if you aren’t feeling receptive. It’s hard to walk out of a room, especially when you’ve paid to be there.

But, did Ethan elevate us through his post? Did he demonstrate a way to behave better than those “self-important morons?”

No.

OK, let’s go on.

**Make part of it on the streets of Seattle, coming up with technological solutions to the povery, drugs and lack of health-care that exists on the very streets outside the conference hall.**

Ethan, you missed that Sunday there was a Gnomedex un-conference and a Mesh Walk where attendees of Gnomedex DID get out on the street. I believe even Pirillo was part of that.

**We pay attention to some stupid fight between overweight white guys inside a conference hall.**

Is this a way to elevate Ethan’s argument? First of all Jason weighs about 190, which for his height is NOT overweight. It sounds like Ethan just is here to tear down other people. Why? Why does Ethan do that? I find that people who have to make their points like that are usually wrong.

**The area that makes us question our motives and understanding of our world THROUGH technology rather than using technology as a means to validate our own insecurities with unneeded self-import.**

I agree with this. But I don’t think Ethan has been paying attention to what a whole lot of us have been doing. Maybe he’s just reading too much Valleywag or something. But, let’s say his point is good. Why not just DO SOMETHING about it instead of ripping everyone else a new asshole about our weaknesses?

**that we forget the real power granted through every glowing screen in the room.**

Right. But most human beings aren’t even willing to do what those “blowhard” bloggers are doing. Most humans would rather watch Paris Hilton or whatever the metaphorical equivilent is.

**We yield dangerous tools. They can and have been used against us, and our loved ones.**

Yes, and the reason I wielded this tool against Ethan is because he loves aiming his writing at other people and not DOING anything. I +hate+ this “tear down the other guy” shit that’s been happening on the blogosphere lately.

People make shit up about me and my employer and post it without care to the consequences. I don’t see people standing up against the personal attacks. Everyone sobbed about Kathy Sierra and then went right back to the same shit.

**If we continue to get caught up in playground fights over who’s dick is bigger, we’re just holding the gun to our foot and pulling the trigger.**

OK, I buy into this. It’s why over the past few days I’ve uploaded tons of videos by people who are trying to improve the world. No attacks. Just lots of doing.

Can we move to a world where we DO instead of ATTACK?

I doubt it. Ethan didn’t get us closer, that’s for sure.

Back to the joining. I don’t think Ethan attacked the right issues. I didn’t attack the right issue either.

Ethan attacked something that mostly happened on blogs and not on stage. Well, OK, Jason gave a salespitch on stage. So did other speakers (I heard that on Twitter from other attendees). And Dave Winer and at least one other voice I heard interrupted Jason to point that out. I didn’t speak up in the session, but I said the same thing on Twitter.

But that whole incident took, what, one hour if you count Jason’s entire speech? Out of about a dozen sessions? That HARDLY defined Gnomedex.

I’d rather be constructive and give Chris Pirillo some real, actionable, items. The one thing Ethan told Chris to do is already being done as part of the Mesh Walk. So, let’s throw that one out.

The rest of it seemed more of an attack on me and other people with no real justification behind it.

He attacked me for speaking at the end of a session. Well, sorry, my SMS was going nuts because of the false rumors being made about me on a variety of sights. Did Ethan care about that? No. Did Ethan care about the feelings of people he aims his abuse gun at? No.

So, I turned the bullet around and asked him why he isn’t cleaning up his own house first. It’s a legitimate question to ask someone who isn’t ADDING anything to our community and is just taking pot shots from behind his screen and keyboard.

it was good for me. was it good for y’all?

@63 No, it frankly wasn’t good for anyone. I don’t know if it was painful to write, but it was certainly painful to read.

More and more I’m having a hard time understanding who Scoble’s audience is…who he’s talking to with ScobleShow and this blog. It’s not me, that’s for sure…not Joe Blow internet consumer. I expect to see this level of dialog from middle-schoolers, not adult technology pundits (my momma? YOUR MOMMA! WTF?)

Is he aiming this all at money-men, CEOs, etc.? Makes lots of sense – if you want to influence the tech industry aim for the decision makers. However, assuming this blog then acts as a CV/resume what the hell kind of statement do posts like this make? There’s no credibility being built here…quite the opposite.

Between this unrelated retort, his recent “What are A-List Bloggers Good For” reply (http://tinyurl.com/2cbkaf) and approval of Pirillo’s monkey boy response to Loren Feldman (http://tinyurl.com/392tfc) what I’m getting is Scoble’s idea of conversation being less about dialog and more about sophomoric ego-strikes.

So Scoble…who is your audience, man? Who do you want most to read this blog and this post, and just what response were you expecting to replies of this nature?

Jim: http://scobleizer.com/2007/08/13/things-on-my-mind/ is my answer for now.

I think you nailed it.

It also is why I like my video work better than my blogging work lately. I don’t do “ego strikes” in my videos. Of course my interviewees don’t try that crap in them either where on the blogosphere that stuff comes into my trackbacks and other places regularly. Heck, I was getting SMS’s at Gnomedex from people who were asking me about Valleywag’s latest claims during sessions there.

Let’s see..you are angry because some else is using their technology to distribute something evil?

—————————
PODTECH: why do you fund this crap?

I just saw a very disturbing set of video podcasts on 1938 Media that pushes a racist campaign. It impugned Podtech. That’s the company that Robert Scoble works for (as head of content). Now, admittedly, he’s a geek there but is directly involved in choosing the content strategies of PODTECH, so let’s start there.

Robert: why do you guys fund this kind of crap?

You talk about vile things at Warner.

What you are doing and funding (and supporting through your technology) is FAR worse for the human race than any arguing we’re doing about Warner.

What do you say about this Robert?

How can you write hypocritical posts like this one about Warner and go to work for the company you work for who are spreading the kind of obvious racist vile that 1938media is?
———

COMMENTS OF NOTE:

LayZ: if I saw Slate distributing evil I’d have spoken up against it. Slate did fire someone named Michael Savage for doing just that when I was there.
(Why not PODTECH then? oh…they sign your paycheck and afer my call with John where he completely defended such speech and his intent to continue to distribute it and a large byline on the 1938Media that thanks PODTECH for somehow supporting artists’ rights)

Nick: and when you work for a company that is intellectually corrupt your very presence mirrors the emptiness in your soul and Warner, by profiting by this type of music, which is souless and without merit and which speaks to the basest elements of our society, reflects a moral bankruptcy that we should not tolerate. (well said..read it again with the whole TechNigga issue in mind…change the word “music” to “video podcasting” and tell me how this racist hate speech against black people should be different.)

As I said on the phone with you, Character can only be measured when there are consequences to demonstrating it. Time to do some inward reflection, Robert.

Kind of sucks to be on the other side of the issue, huh?

T

Tony,

Excellent example!

I spoke out about my beliefs about Loren on the Yahoo newsgroup which was against my company’s interests (hint: that represents career risk).

And now Podtech won’t be distributing future Loren Feldman work and our logo is off of his Web site and you’ll notice that his latest video is on YouTube.

So, no, I am NOT on the other side of the issue.

This is EXACTLY the point.

I can control what PodTech is involved with. When I see the company I am involved in doing something wrong I speak up and take action BOTH internally and externally. And quickly, I might add.

Maybe you should have listened to what I told you when you called. You didn’t seem willing to listen when you called but glad I got the chance to explain my position once more to you.

Then I stand corrected. I was unaware that Podtech had severed its relationship with Loren since I no longer hang out in places online where such behavior is tolerated.

Thank you for doing the right thing.

T

” I’d rather listen to Ethan since he DOES have a blog. Thanks for trying so hard.”

I think this is where Ethan is talking about the self-importance displayed by many bloggers. Since when did having a blog make anyone smarter than everyone else? Some of the smartest people I know DON’T blog.

After reading Ethan’s post, I think the main point is that technology still has a great potential (not being fully utilized) to help change the lives of people that need help. Does our having technology help us understand these issues? Yes. Will it change it directly in the developing countries, countries that have more dire concerns (food, water) than internet access? Not right now.

And while the music industry certainly does have issues, I would actually argue that music is much more of a universal item than a blog…which means it has more potential to create the changes he was talking about.

Note: I have a blog. I’ not under the delusion that I am going to change the world because of it. If you want to focus on some companies that are trying to change the world, I would recommend checking out sites like kiva.org or unitus.com (micro finance). Perhaps that could be the focus of one of your shows? You could also encourage your fans/readers to join some of the organizations found in Facebook causes. Is 10.00 donation to a cause a lot of money to either one of us? Not really. But 1000 people donating that much money to a cause will actually help someone…

Hey I just visit your blog and I must say that you have very nice and impressive blog. Keep it up. And you are all very welcome on my blog to some time visit me http://www.weyouth.wordpress.com

Anybody who wants to know what people like Ethan who are “passionate” about the record business are really all about should decipher this URL and go and read this article:

victoryarticle [dot] tumblr [dot] com

Suffice it to say that there are no clean hands anywhere at this business – not at the “independent” labels, nor at the “major” labels like WB.

I saw this controversy mentioned on Twitter, and out of curiosity, I went over to Ethan’s blog to have a look around. I was so repulsed by what I saw that I left some acerbic comments, which is something that I seldom bother to do. But his blog was such an obvious example, in microcosm (or perhaps nanocosm) of everything that is wrong with the world, that I couldn’t resist the opportunity to let him have it.

Excellent point Robert. The report should have taken the questions a little further. Here’s how it should have gone:

Q: So, as a rapper, with your street cred and all that, you wouldn’t tell the police about the serial killer, you would move?

A: Yep…

Q: Okay, now let’s assume that that serial killer is a child predator…and let’s assume that the child predator abused your daughter and you have 100% credible evidence proving the neighbor did it…do you tell the police?

A: Nah.

Q: Are you going to move now?

A: Nah.

Q: If you don’t tell the police and you don’t move, what do you do?

We all know what would happen, but the sad reality is, no one is talking about it. As the guy on the show said, “we’ve lost the rule of law in some of these communities.” And big companies love that they are making money off of it.

just one question how many of you people have grown up in the inner city and know what goes on there and how many options people are limited to and the things we have to do to feed out families and how the cops treat us when they show up. if we call the cops the first thing they start doing is questioning us like we are the suspects, so i dont talk to cops about anything a cop asks me a question i have not seen anything. this music sells because this is freedom of speech and this is the way we feel about law enforcement in general

@62 “I +hate+ this “tear down the other guy” shit that’s been happening on the blogosphere lately.”

And yet that’s what you do whenever you disagree with someone’s argument or whenever someone writes something you disagree with. You resort to name calling and ad-hominem responses rather than address the core argument. Physician! Heal thyself!

And since you are in the self-righteous mood, Scoble, how do you feel about Seagate being reincorporated in the Cayman Islands for tax haven purposes? How long will you remain silent on that issue? As long as they are your sponsor, I’m assuming? For someone with the social beliefs you have I would think you would outraged being associated with a company that is not paying its fair share of corporate taxes.