Is Microsoft in Zune to win?

October 3, 2007 By

When I interviewed Steve Ballmer a few years back he said Microsoft is in the game to win.

But when you’re inside Microsoft the employees use different language. Many projects there are simply defensive ones. To keep a competitor from getting more inroads into one of its businesses. iPod, for instance, isn’t threatening to Microsoft directly, but they started the Zune project up when they noticed that a decent percentage of people, after buying an iPod, would switch their computers from Windows to Macs. THAT threatens Microsoft’s core business.

The problem is that whenever you do something just to defend another business you don’t do it from a position of love. Or a position of strength.

Now, look at the new Zunes and the reaction they are getting from journalists and bloggers.

I’m totally uninspired. Yawn.

Where’s the 16:9 wide screen? Where’s the super-dooper-podcasting features (and why weren’t these announced last week at the Podcasting Expo? Talk about a blown opportunity)?

Michael Gartenberg says that the features are actually pretty good but the marketing/messaging sucks. Again, this is a defensive product. It’s not a visionary one like the Tablet PC that Gates came up with on his own. The execs probably told the Zune team “stop the bleeding” or something metaphorically equivilent and the fact that they did a good job is surprising to Gates.

On the other hand, Apple HAS pissed off many of its most rabid evangelists lately. This Gizmodo post is one artifact of that. Apple’s treatment of developers and early adopters has opened up a marketing hole that Microsoft COULD take advantage of.

But only if Microsoft is in this game to win. It’s not. So we get uninspired product. Uninspired messaging. Uninspired launch dates.

Yawn. Wake me up when Macworld is here in January.

Filed Under: Microsoft Office, Zune

http://www.hypermean.com Daniel Cooke

You seem to be hitting a nail on the head. I have been talking to some of my friends that used to work at Microsoft and they say that there is a lot of that uninspired bureaucracy with a heathy helping of non-creativity going around there. They have deep enough pockets to go on like that and hopefully they have the power to fix it. I with the best of them but in the mean time I am quite happy with my Mac and my Linux machine.
Jayson Billington

Tim, as I’m sure you know there are different categories of players. Comparing a Touch to the Zune 80 one might say having 5-10x the storage space is a huge advantage. But any Apples sales clerk would say that if you need a hard disk based player, the comparable product is the iPod classic.

If you want to compare the Touch to the Zune2 you’d have to compare it to the 8/16g versions of the Zune at which point one would have to ask themselves if the touch features are worth 2x the cost. For many they are, for many the Zune looks like an incredible deal in comparison.

The Zune is not a revolutionary product but is looking like it will be a excellent value product rather than a premium product at a premium price. At this point in the game, IMO it is the right demographic to focus on.
Jayson Billington

Tim, as I’m sure you know there are different categories of players. Comparing a Touch to the Zune 80 one might say having 5-10x the storage space is a huge advantage. But any Apples sales clerk would say that if you need a hard disk based player, the comparable product is the iPod classic.

If you want to compare the Touch to the Zune2 you’d have to compare it to the 8/16g versions of the Zune at which point one would have to ask themselves if the touch features are worth 2x the cost. For many they are, for many the Zune looks like an incredible deal in comparison.

The Zune is not a revolutionary product but is looking like it will be a excellent value product rather than a premium product at a premium price. At this point in the game, IMO it is the right demographic to focus on.
HG

The Zune supporters are making statements that support the idea that Microsoft doesn’t innovate. One could conclude that Microsoft just copies Apple. Yet again. I guess there is something to the claim that Cupertino is Microsoft’s southern research facility.

Microsoft’s strength is it’s OEM partnerships. It’s a company with two heads–one for the corporate side and one for the consumer side–but the heads can’t connect because the DNA of these two markets don’t mix. I doubt the meat and potato corporate accounts care anything at all about Zunes. Why would they? So Microsoft can provide another vector of vulnerabilities to the company’s office?
HG

The Zune supporters are making statements that support the idea that Microsoft doesn’t innovate. One could conclude that Microsoft just copies Apple. Yet again. I guess there is something to the claim that Cupertino is Microsoft’s southern research facility.

Microsoft’s strength is it’s OEM partnerships. It’s a company with two heads–one for the corporate side and one for the consumer side–but the heads can’t connect because the DNA of these two markets don’t mix. I doubt the meat and potato corporate accounts care anything at all about Zunes. Why would they? So Microsoft can provide another vector of vulnerabilities to the company’s office?
question

“If I am, then someone will certainly take me up on the Zune Challenge I just put out there”

Since you didnt do a video session with ValleyWag, i guess everything they’ve written about You and Podtech is true.
question

“If I am, then someone will certainly take me up on the Zune Challenge I just put out there”

Since you didnt do a video session with ValleyWag, i guess everything they’ve written about You and Podtech is true.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

question: if it’s on the Internet it must be true, right? Speaking of which, when did I ever turn down doing a video with Valleywag folks? I don’t remember ever being asked.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

question: if it’s on the Internet it must be true, right? Speaking of which, when did I ever turn down doing a video with Valleywag folks? I don’t remember ever being asked.
http://www.brian.glaeske.name/ Brian G.

I’m tired of the whole marketshare arguement. The fact is that the market can host multiple brands and products.

If we were discussing toasters or some other less high profile consumer electronic item (like a DVD player), nobody cares which one they have.

People purchase consumer products based on how it looks, how much it costs and in some cases how cool it is. Lots of people have different opinions on all 3 of these dimensions which is why there is such a wide variety of toasters in the market.

There is room for both iPod, Zune and other players in the market. I don’t care who wins. I like the iPod touch if you like the Zune, fine.
http://www.brian.glaeske.name/ Brian G.

I’m tired of the whole marketshare arguement. The fact is that the market can host multiple brands and products.

If we were discussing toasters or some other less high profile consumer electronic item (like a DVD player), nobody cares which one they have.

People purchase consumer products based on how it looks, how much it costs and in some cases how cool it is. Lots of people have different opinions on all 3 of these dimensions which is why there is such a wide variety of toasters in the market.

There is room for both iPod, Zune and other players in the market. I don’t care who wins. I like the iPod touch if you like the Zune, fine.
Danic101

Honestly, Scoble you sure are drinking the Apple Kool-aid. The iPhone is not the best phone, PDA or media player or even the best combination of the 3 but it can do no wrong. However, when Microsoft develops a superior product with Zune over the iPod, offers a better music store ( Zune Pass Subscription ) you say that they can’t win. Do you know why Microsoft is going to win in the end? They will own the living room, dorm room and Home Cinema. With their ever improving intergration of XBOX360, Zune, Media Center and thier forthcoming IPTV products and partnerships they will own the future of entertainment.

Can you Buy HD Content on your Apple TV?

Can you Record TV out of the box with your Mac?

Apple will faulter on entertainment products mark my word.
Danic101

Honestly, Scoble you sure are drinking the Apple Kool-aid. The iPhone is not the best phone, PDA or media player or even the best combination of the 3 but it can do no wrong. However, when Microsoft develops a superior product with Zune over the iPod, offers a better music store ( Zune Pass Subscription ) you say that they can’t win. Do you know why Microsoft is going to win in the end? They will own the living room, dorm room and Home Cinema. With their ever improving intergration of XBOX360, Zune, Media Center and thier forthcoming IPTV products and partnerships they will own the future of entertainment.

Can you Buy HD Content on your Apple TV?

Can you Record TV out of the box with your Mac?

Apple will faulter on entertainment products mark my word.
Patz

The truth on the Zune’s wireless sync:
“[1] Wireless Sync requires access to a home wireless network and can be manually initiated by clicking “sync now” on the Zune. Automatic Wireless Sync requires AC power to the Zune device via a dock, AC adapter or speaker dock accessory. ”

source: http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/holiday2007.htm

Fable wireless requires docking. Typical Microsoftian innovation.
Patz

The truth on the Zune’s wireless sync:
“[1] Wireless Sync requires access to a home wireless network and can be manually initiated by clicking “sync now” on the Zune. Automatic Wireless Sync requires AC power to the Zune device via a dock, AC adapter or speaker dock accessory. ”

source: http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/holiday2007.htm

Fable wireless requires docking. Typical Microsoftian innovation.
http://jamiethomson.spaces.live.com/ Jamie T

I fully admit to being a fan of the Zune, of Microsoft, and of associated gubbins. Even saying that though I would struggle to justify how the Zune as a gadget in and of itself is better than an iPod and it quite amuses me when I see fellow Zune-advocates arguing to the contrary. Still, its all good fun.

You may ask then “Why Jamie, if you think the iPod is better, do you describe yourself as a Zune fan?” Its a question I struggle to answer myself sometimes but its basically this. Microsoft have their fingers in an awful lot of pies in XBox, Zune, O/S, Media Center, Online Services (i.e. Windows Live), Search, Surface, Social networks, and so on. Probably none of these things can legitimately claim to be “the best” at what they do but what makes Microsoft compelling to me is that they can and will offer connected experiences across all of these areas. Each area enhances the others and whilst I think the phrase “great than the sum of its parts” is overused I think its useful here. That’s why I bore people to tears about these things so much on my blog.

I’ve just realised this is a rather pointless digression but I’m going to hit submit anyway

-Jamie
http://jamiethomson.spaces.live.com Jamie T

I fully admit to being a fan of the Zune, of Microsoft, and of associated gubbins. Even saying that though I would struggle to justify how the Zune as a gadget in and of itself is better than an iPod and it quite amuses me when I see fellow Zune-advocates arguing to the contrary. Still, its all good fun.

You may ask then “Why Jamie, if you think the iPod is better, do you describe yourself as a Zune fan?” Its a question I struggle to answer myself sometimes but its basically this. Microsoft have their fingers in an awful lot of pies in XBox, Zune, O/S, Media Center, Online Services (i.e. Windows Live), Search, Surface, Social networks, and so on. Probably none of these things can legitimately claim to be “the best” at what they do but what makes Microsoft compelling to me is that they can and will offer connected experiences across all of these areas. Each area enhances the others and whilst I think the phrase “great than the sum of its parts” is overused I think its useful here. That’s why I bore people to tears about these things so much on my blog.

I’ve just realised this is a rather pointless digression but I’m going to hit submit anyway

-Jamie
http://jamiethomson.spaces.live.com/ Jamie T

Patz,
It seems you don’t understand the very thing that you’ve copied-pasted. Wireless syncing does not require docking. Period. Auto-wireless-syncing does but the 2 are not the same. If the only difference is that I have to press a button when I’m not docked then I really really don’t care.

-Jamie
http://jamiethomson.spaces.live.com Jamie T

Patz,
It seems you don’t understand the very thing that you’ve copied-pasted. Wireless syncing does not require docking. Period. Auto-wireless-syncing does but the 2 are not the same. If the only difference is that I have to press a button when I’m not docked then I really really don’t care.

-Jamie
http://tenforward.spaces.live.com/ Phil

You do not need to be connected in order to initiate wireless sync. The Zune device will need to be docked during first time use and setup, but afterwards you will be able to sync via your home wireless network.
http://tenforward.spaces.live.com Phil

You do not need to be connected in order to initiate wireless sync. The Zune device will need to be docked during first time use and setup, but afterwards you will be able to sync via your home wireless network.
http://wheatridgeranter.blogspot.com/ Ryan Rapp

Scoble, I totally agree with you. I’m in the market for an mp3 player. I’ve been really considering an Ipod for a while. I like the Ipod touch, but am waiting until they get a larger hard drive in it.

When I saw that a Zune was coming out, I thought I’d consider it. I actually grimaced when I saw Microsoft’s competing product. 4GB and 8GB?! WTF? I want to either store 1) enough songs for jogging or 2) my entire collection with room for more. If I’m gonna spend $200+ I want something substantial in return.

That takes us to the 80GB, and its set of irrelevant features. I don’t care about FM tuners, I don’t care if I can sync wirelessly, I don’t care if I can buy songs from any wireless network (that’s really a feature for them more than for me). And the cost?…$250!!! You’d have to be out of your mind to buy a Zune before buying an Ipod!
http://wheatridgeranter.blogspot.com Ryan Rapp

Scoble, I totally agree with you. I’m in the market for an mp3 player. I’ve been really considering an Ipod for a while. I like the Ipod touch, but am waiting until they get a larger hard drive in it.

When I saw that a Zune was coming out, I thought I’d consider it. I actually grimaced when I saw Microsoft’s competing product. 4GB and 8GB?! WTF? I want to either store 1) enough songs for jogging or 2) my entire collection with room for more. If I’m gonna spend $200+ I want something substantial in return.

That takes us to the 80GB, and its set of irrelevant features. I don’t care about FM tuners, I don’t care if I can sync wirelessly, I don’t care if I can buy songs from any wireless network (that’s really a feature for them more than for me). And the cost?…$250!!! You’d have to be out of your mind to buy a Zune before buying an Ipod!
Sy

Good reviews? Where? The only good reviews so far are posts on tech blogs from Microsoft employees disguising as normal users and Robert Enderle. We all know about Robert Enderle and Apple.
Sy

Good reviews? Where? The only good reviews so far are posts on tech blogs from Microsoft employees disguising as normal users and Robert Enderle. We all know about Robert Enderle and Apple.
Sy

Journalists with real credentials are feeling lukewarm about the new Zune players so far.
Sy

Journalists with real credentials are feeling lukewarm about the new Zune players so far.
Erick

It’s a yawner indeed. After a year of waiting, I was expecting, not just feature parity, but design and screen parity. The Zune is still 320 x and doesn’t have 480×320 @ 163ppi. The moves, TV shows, images are stunning. Zune could have done the same. Instead MS produces a boring update that are hardly exciting. I can’t see myself grinning widely with joy as my Zune syncs wirelessly, while tethered to a cable to provide power. Yes the wifi will kill your battery if you sync wirelessly. Why do you think you must be powered to do so? But when you watch a video on the iPhone or Touch, its just gorgeous, and the 7 hours on the iPhone for video is just amazing battery power. MS had time to catch up and surpass the user experience. But like total Eng/Nerds that they are, their vision of excitement is squirting music to each other and tethered wireless syncing? Pleeeez.
Erick

It’s a yawner indeed. After a year of waiting, I was expecting, not just feature parity, but design and screen parity. The Zune is still 320 x and doesn’t have 480×320 @ 163ppi. The moves, TV shows, images are stunning. Zune could have done the same. Instead MS produces a boring update that are hardly exciting. I can’t see myself grinning widely with joy as my Zune syncs wirelessly, while tethered to a cable to provide power. Yes the wifi will kill your battery if you sync wirelessly. Why do you think you must be powered to do so? But when you watch a video on the iPhone or Touch, its just gorgeous, and the 7 hours on the iPhone for video is just amazing battery power. MS had time to catch up and surpass the user experience. But like total Eng/Nerds that they are, their vision of excitement is squirting music to each other and tethered wireless syncing? Pleeeez.
Pingback: MSDN Blog Postings » Zune: I'm officially excited
onceler

@Ryan Rapp: Not sure I understand your rationale – based on what you’ve stated is important to you, what exactly would make you choose an iPod over a Zune? Keep in mind the price points for the new Zunes are the same as those of their Apple counterparts.
onceler

@Ryan Rapp: Not sure I understand your rationale – based on what you’ve stated is important to you, what exactly would make you choose an iPod over a Zune? Keep in mind the price points for the new Zunes are the same as those of their Apple counterparts.
Kontra

I compared Microsoft’s attempts to unseat the iPod (now with Zune 2) with Apple’s entry into a new phone market, highlighting Ballmer’s disastrous record in consumer markets here:

“Zune 2: Mediocrity grows on trees”
http://counternotions.com/2007/10/03/zune-2-mediocrity-grows-on-trees/
Kontra

I compared Microsoft’s attempts to unseat the iPod (now with Zune 2) with Apple’s entry into a new phone market, highlighting Ballmer’s disastrous record in consumer markets here:

“Zune 2: Mediocrity grows on trees”
http://counternotions.com/2007/10/03/zune-2-mediocrity-grows-on-trees/
Pingback: Is Microsoft in Zune to win?
Ken

Scoble, you obviously have no desire to be a Microsoft customer, as evidenced by this post and your post about Ballmer. So, short of linkbaiting, why do you even care what Microsoft does?
Ken

Scoble, you obviously have no desire to be a Microsoft customer, as evidenced by this post and your post about Ballmer. So, short of linkbaiting, why do you even care what Microsoft does?
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Ken: I only own stock in one tech company: Microsoft. So, I’m hoping they’d do something interesting for once rather than just playing defense.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

Ken: I only own stock in one tech company: Microsoft. So, I’m hoping they’d do something interesting for once rather than just playing defense.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

And, Ken, I still own more Microsoft software in dollar value than software from any other company other than Adobe.
http://scobleizer.com/ Robert Scoble

And, Ken, I still own more Microsoft software in dollar value than software from any other company other than Adobe.
http://www.studiomuscle.com/ Hendrik

I don’t really get this

I am living in Belgium and can’t get hold of either a Zune nor an Iphone

Sure I can have the itouch but I am not interested in a crippled device where the mail and calendar apps are unavailable or non-editable (so why the keyboard if i can’t edit something as crucial as MY calendar)

But I am not religious. I like the iphone, i do like the design of the new zunes and the feature set is more appealing than the ipod classic. Uninspired? I think the design is refreshing and remarkably in tune with the redesign of vista and other MS products. And the features are not as groundbreaking as an iphone, but it’s not meant to compete with the much more expensive (remember the pricy 2 year contract!) iphone. Compare it to the ipod classic.

Ipod classic sounds like an Emerson, Lake and Palmer LP with lots of dust. My father buys “classics”. Where’s the rock an roll in the new Ipod classic? It bears no new features but a higer capacity and small user interface improvements. Talk about uninspiring really.

So I want a zune and an iphone (albeit WITHOUT the contract). Oops both not available in Belgium.

I think I’ll go for the emerson lake and palmer device then.

Hendrik
http://www.studiomuscle.com Hendrik

I don’t really get this

I am living in Belgium and can’t get hold of either a Zune nor an Iphone

Sure I can have the itouch but I am not interested in a crippled device where the mail and calendar apps are unavailable or non-editable (so why the keyboard if i can’t edit something as crucial as MY calendar)

But I am not religious. I like the iphone, i do like the design of the new zunes and the feature set is more appealing than the ipod classic. Uninspired? I think the design is refreshing and remarkably in tune with the redesign of vista and other MS products. And the features are not as groundbreaking as an iphone, but it’s not meant to compete with the much more expensive (remember the pricy 2 year contract!) iphone. Compare it to the ipod classic.

Ipod classic sounds like an Emerson, Lake and Palmer LP with lots of dust. My father buys “classics”. Where’s the rock an roll in the new Ipod classic? It bears no new features but a higer capacity and small user interface improvements. Talk about uninspiring really.

So I want a zune and an iphone (albeit WITHOUT the contract). Oops both not available in Belgium.

I think I’ll go for the emerson lake and palmer device then.

Hendrik
Diego

“I’d love to try a Zune out if any Microsoft PR people still read Scoble.”

What is it with the constant crying about not getting a Zune from Winer? Overlooked by MS, blah blah. Can’t afford one? Go buy one like most people do. There’s no need for MS to send sciprting.com a Zune. They’ll get nothing from it. They’re better off getting other groups to review it. Groups that will have more influence.
Diego

“I’d love to try a Zune out if any Microsoft PR people still read Scoble.”

What is it with the constant crying about not getting a Zune from Winer? Overlooked by MS, blah blah. Can’t afford one? Go buy one like most people do. There’s no need for MS to send sciprting.com a Zune. They’ll get nothing from it. They’re better off getting other groups to review it. Groups that will have more influence.
SunkenShip

Hey Paul, doing fine huh?

M$ stock started the year at $29 and still today $29
Apple started around $50 and today over $160 TRIPLED!!!

Right, doing fine…
SunkenShip

Hey Paul, doing fine huh?

M$ stock started the year at $29 and still today $29
Apple started around $50 and today over $160 TRIPLED!!!

Right, doing fine…
meechwings

I guess I’m one of the few people that actually agree with Scoble.
Yes, the Zune may have (slightly) better features than the iPod, but without a doubt the “flashier” player is the iPod.
And while those of us with technical backgrounds might go for the better featured one (though why Microsoft wouldn’t try implementing better web features having Wi-Fi built in from the beginning is escaping me), everyone else is going to go for the flashier one. Forget about saying you’re comparing apples to oranges, what the average person is going to see is an attempt to imitate a 1st-gen iPod vs. the highly touted Touch interface.
Hell, I’m not an iPod fan myself and I’d still take the Touch over the Zune: built in web browser vs. Wireless Sharing/Sync?

And that’s why Microsoft is going to lose this battle if they keep being a step behind Apple. They need to come up with a “wow” feature like Touch.
meechwings

I guess I’m one of the few people that actually agree with Scoble.
Yes, the Zune may have (slightly) better features than the iPod, but without a doubt the “flashier” player is the iPod.
And while those of us with technical backgrounds might go for the better featured one (though why Microsoft wouldn’t try implementing better web features having Wi-Fi built in from the beginning is escaping me), everyone else is going to go for the flashier one. Forget about saying you’re comparing apples to oranges, what the average person is going to see is an attempt to imitate a 1st-gen iPod vs. the highly touted Touch interface.
Hell, I’m not an iPod fan myself and I’d still take the Touch over the Zune: built in web browser vs. Wireless Sharing/Sync?

And that’s why Microsoft is going to lose this battle if they keep being a step behind Apple. They need to come up with a “wow” feature like Touch.
Jim

I have no idea why you consider the Zune defensive…Apple, who leads the market has to defend their postion. MS is free to try new things and take chances and go on the offensive. I mean come on? the iPod Touch!?!?! Having to use TWO hands to navigate the UI is not innovation.

Is Microsoft in Zune to win?

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