The brand promise of Apple
This is an Apple ad:
Done by Apple. More on that later.
So, last night I was out to dinner with a bunch of smart people. Folks who run their own companies. Folks who have helped many companies get started. Tech companies.
Of course people started talking about my Apple problems. Everyone at the table is a Macintosh user. What was fun is that at one point people started telling me about the problems they have had with their Macs. Many with far more serious problems than I have had.
I tried to turn on my video camera. They all instantly shut up and said “no video.”
Why not?
I dug a little more. It was because they all blamed themselves for the problems of their Macs and I think they also bought into the “Apple cult” which says that if you use a Mac you must be cool. Heck, look at that ad again. Who is cool? Not the PC user.
Now THAT is “brand promise.”
We believe Apple’s marketing so deeply that we aren’t willing to question it.
And then there’s something else. Apple has an ARMY of people who are anonymous who will come and call you every name in the book. I know. They hit yesterday here. I deleted them all, but, dozens, if not hundreds, of comments calling me every name in the book.
They hit over on Andy Beal’s site too. He got tired and just closed the comment thread over there.
The common thing about most of these comments is that it’s MY FAULT that my Apple machine is having trouble.
See, on my Windows machine I’m willing to accept this. After all, I know that Microsoft can’t really test every combination of hardware out there. My Windows machines can take dozens, if not hundreds, of different video cards, sound cards, hard drives, memory configurations, etc. The thing is on my Mac I didn’t load any third-party RAM — Apple’s brand promise is that you never will need to open your box to customize it. Heck, the iPhone goes further. You CAN’T customize it and if you try you have to “break” into it. I’ve never opened the box, or tried to do some weird stuff. I’m even pretty protective about what I load on this system. Why? Cause my world has moved to the Internet and browser-based apps. No need to install tons of software like I used to on my Windows boxes.
I watch that video over and over again and I get really pissed.
Pissed enough to say “screw you Apple” all over again.
Some of you (hi Fake Steve Jobs) misunderstood my point about Apple PR’s not wanting to give me free or loaner hardware. See, I know Apple sends free or loaner hardware to certain journalists. But only those it deems “important.” Steven Levy. Walt Mossberg. Those types. They got iPhones two weeks before those of us who were “unimportant” could BUY them in the stores.
The point isn’t that I want free (er loaned) hardware. It’s that Apple uses that free hardware to MANUFACTURE the “myth” of Apple as being great, and good, and “cool.” Also, if these guys want to get more free or loaner Apple hardware before the rest of us they need to make sure not to point out too many flaws in it. Yeah, they can point out a few, but they know they got picked because they generally write pro-Apple stuff. It’s a reason why I don’t want free stuff and why I waited in line to be among the first in the Valley to have my own iPhone.
Again. Brand promise of Apple. Only those who will give Apple a fair shake will get the goods. When Fake Steve Jobs says I’ll never get invited to another Apple press conference again he isn’t too far from the truth! Retribution is a bitch.
UPDATE: That’s not totally fair on my part. I know these journalists will report when they are sent something that doesn’t do what it promises. I need to correct this post. The journalists don’t get free products that they get to keep (most of the times). They do send them back. I’m sorry to the journalists who I made this point about. Walt Mossberg has an ethics statement where he talks about this.
UPDATE 2: Ryan Block, who writes for Engadget, has a good set of replies to my claims above.
It’s the brand promise of Apple. You will have to BUY your Apple after those “famous journalists” get to use one for free for two weeks and you vil like it. Oh, and you’ll beg to be let into a Steve Jobs keynote because you vil want to sit at the feet of Jobs and drool on the floor like the idiot blogger you are.
Just remember the brand promise of Apple, OK?
1. If your machine behaves badly it’s your fault.
2. Any idiot can use an Apple machine (that’s what they tell you before you buy one) but if your machine crashes then you must be a “genius” to fix it (they have bars at stores now where you can “borrow” a genius, but only after waiting in line — my son twice has been turned away from genius bars because they were too busy and was told to “come back tomorrow at 10 a.m.”). Oh, and if you are having problems at 10 p.m., and dare tell people on your blog about your problems you’ll get tons of abuse back “how DARE you be an Apple user and not know you needed to flash your PRAM.” Translation: any idiot can use a Mac, but not really.
3. If you dare complain about the brand promise you’ll get pounced on by hoardes of annonymous astroturfing Apple FanBois.
4. If you don’t get the brand promise of Apple don’t attempt to point out that the ads are ridiculous. Instead, just leave the cult and go back to using that “inferior” machine you used to use.
5. Check out my new Mac, with its cool brushed metal surface and the light-up Apple logo.
6. If you use an Apple machine you will be as cool as Kevin Rose.
Baratunde has it right when he says “I hate the smugness of Apple.”
Oh, and to the guy who says I’m a Microsoft shill. You better check your facts there. Over the past year I’ve spent more than $10,000 on Apple products of MY OWN MONEY and if you include the machines I’ve bought for PodTech, I’ve spent more than $20,000. Not to mention my son and I spent two days in line waiting for our iPhones. Now if THAT is what you call “shilling for Microsoft” I wonder what “shilling for Apple would look like?”
I guess I just am not cool enough to like my Mac. I’m back on my Sony Vaio, which has never crashed the way my Mac did the other night. It also never has needed to have its memory and graphics controller replaced the way my Mac did. And its USB ports work, unlike those on my son’s computer. But it decidedly isn’t cool.
It doesn’t come with the brand promise of Apple.
Oh, and back to that ad at the top of my blog? Have you ever met the PR guy for Microsoft? That’s Frank Shaw. A really nice guy. He even has a blog (idiot! — Apple hires all the “cool” PR people and they never will do a blog) Who does PR for Apple? Katie Cotton. She’s a LOT closer to the PR lady in that video above, which is TOTALLY ironic — watch this video again and compare to the ad above. Brilliant marketing.
November 17th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
I’ve been saying this to my Apple friends for years but it’s like trying to explain to an army of christian fundamentalists why you’re an Atheist/Agnostic. I’m glad you wrote this post, now I can forward it to those friends. Apologies if you have to again delete 200+ comments afterwards. ;)
November 17th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Robert,
Thanks for posting this. For a while it felt like you lost your spark, but several of your posts lately have renewed my Scoble faith.
While I love Apple products, I too dislike the smugness attitudes. Honor people and let them make their own choices.
Otto
November 17th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
It is still hard to tell if you are angry about your Apple not restarting after the updates or if you are angry about not getting free stuff since you keep bring it up.
Stuff crashes and breaks, get over it. Anyone with one iota of experience in the tech field knows this.
November 17th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Paul: I’m not angry about the free stuff. That’s just business and if other journalists get free stuff and I don’t, well, then that’s my problem (although it’s good for you to know because it’s how Apple manufactures this mythical belief that they are all good). I’m angry of the brand promise of Apple being a pack of freaking lies. The ADS piss me off. If Apple never ran those ads I’d just be a good Apple
slaveFanBoi and take my machine into the genius bar and blame myself like my friends do. But the ads made me believe that my Apple machine would never go bad and would be easy to use. Zap my PRAM. Right.November 17th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
But you are wrong! Apple is the best!!!
(Using a Vista SP1 RC Preview build on a HP dv6500t - never crashes and hence completely unable to even think of writing a post like this one.)
November 17th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Nice Ad… except that you can do the exact same Ad by replacing Vista with Leopard and XP with Tiger.
November 17th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Dude it is advertising. You don’t or didn’t have to buy into it. I think you are smarter than that.
What I think is more interesting is that your friends didn’t want to be attributed on video. Was it really about not seeming cool because they think they broke their Macs or because they didn’t want to offend the real Steve and might impact their careers somehow?
November 17th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
I haven’t enjoyed your posts in a while but this was quite on point.
People love Apple like it’s the Peace Corps when they are really a corporation like every other profit grubbing corporation out there.
They have
1. Had stock options scandals
2. Leveraged their monopoly with iTunes like MS does on the PC. Wont license FairPlay for iTunes. And they are going to lose that suit bigtime.
3. Charges you for a loaner phone so they can fix your phone battery.
Apple fans are would rather whip themselves than admit that anything could ever be wrong with an Apple product.
To commenter number 3
Of course shit breaks. Scoble knows that. Everyone knows that. It’s the Apple fans that will lynch you if you say otherwise.
November 17th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Paul: there’s a difference between pointing out your Ford truck can pull a 747 and pointing out your product is better than a competitor’s — especially when it’s not. And, anyway, it’s my point to point out when advertising is untruthful in the tech industry. This advertising is among the worst.
November 17th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Dileepa: exactly. You should listen to Leo Laporte’s show on KGO Radio. I’ve heard several callers say they were uninstalling Leopard and going back to Tiger.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
>Was it really about not seeming cool because they think they broke their Macs or because they didn’t want to offend the real Steve and might impact their careers somehow?
These aren’t journalists who were at dinner last night. So, doubtful that it’d impact their careers.
I think it’s more that they just didn’t want to look “uncool.” The brand promise of Apple is very strong.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
I sympathize with your technical issue. Lord knows I’ve had my share of them on Macs and PCs alike over the years. And I share your feelings about the smugness present in the loudest members of the Apple Zealot Army.
But I find it hard to believe that you - a smart guy with a long history in the industry - actually believed the advertisements. Apple’s or any company’s for that matter. I can’t say I’ve seen a single ad in the last decade that qualifies as “non-ridiculous.” And maybe I’m totally wrong, but I like to believe that most people understand this about advertisements, and know better than to expect the life-changing experience promised by them.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
“We believe Apple’s marketing so deeply that we aren’t willing to question it.”
Apple’s Brand is rooted in the actual products they offer not in the marketing of those products. Apple’s products are generally very well made. The craftsmanship is often extraordinary. Sure there are problems. Nothing is perfect. It helps to have a knowledgeable friend or friends who can help you through the rough spots. Also there is Apple Care and if you live by an Apple Store there is the Genius Bar.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Kevin: >actually believed the advertisements.
My son certainly buys into the belief that only people with Apple products are cool.
Why does Apple do this kind of advertising? Because it works. They know it does.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Number 8 anyone will lynch anyone these days; except for maybe MS supporters. Haven’t seen any since Robert left them ;)
But I am really trying to make the point number 12 is making. Why would you believe those ads in the first place?
November 17th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Richard: Apple’s products are aesthetically well made, but I’ve found they usually fail more often than other brands. See, even YOU have bought into the “brand promise.” Things that FEEL better MUST be better. Not true.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Paul: it’s not that I believe the ads. It’s that it ads to a culture of smugness. “My computer is better than yours.”
It’s not. Sorry to burst your Apple FanBoi bubble.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Robert,
In any case I hope your Mac gets fixed soon.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
This is not a fanboy rant.
First, I think the problem Robert is you’re in tech and I would guess a lot of folks would think you could explore and figure out more on your own, I know I do. You and Dave Winer both seem to have more Mac problems than anyone I know and I know a lot of Mac users. A little exploring on the net would bring you to hundreds of Mac support, news, help sites. And if that fails, at least Apple “does have” a GeniusBar and you can schedule an appointment from the comfort of your easychair at the retail store of your choice. Try that with your Vio. Yes, Apple has that brand image of it “just works”. From my experience it does but as we know, in tech, that’s not going to be a 100% deal with anything.
Secondly, instead of a post with a bunch of Screw Apple rants, you could just explain what happened and ask for advice. Dave did that this morning. The Screw Apple rants just inflame the situation and I’ll bet you know that and you shouldn’t at all be surprised or ranting about it in this post. There’s a cause/effect and you’re the cause. Tone it down and I’ll bet your responses/comments will be more worthwhile.
Lastly, I think you’re just trying to create a Dell Hell.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Hi Robert,
I do not believe that the brand promise of Apple is “by a mac and you will be perceived as someone cool”. My vote would go to something more like: “by a mac and you will get a more polished and integrated user experience”.
People are not born Apple Fan Boy. They become Apple Fan Boy because Apple does a good job at delivering on that promise.
Your point about the increasing software and hardware issues is obviously something Apple needs to look very seriously into. Most users will absorb one or two issue based on the trust of the brand and then they will start getting pissed.
What has been your experience working with Apple Support?
November 17th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Heh, Chuqui, who used to work at Apple, just wrote that my problem was probably caused by disk corruption and that he prevents that by occassionally rebooting his Mac from a complete power-down.
The thing is, remember when I admitted that I did JUST THAT on my Tablet PC? And how all the Apple FanBoi’s beat up on me? I do. Here’s the start of that thread: http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/01/30.html#a9293
See, again, this answer messes with the brand promise of Apple. “It’ll only work perfectly if you reboot once in a while.”
November 17th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Edwin: Apple Support is OK. My computer was in the shop for a week to get its memory board fixed. My son’s computer has been in twice. Once for 10 days and once for about a week.
My son often tries to go to the genius bar and has to wait in line, or has to make reservations days in advance (which is hard to do because he never knows when his parents will be kind enough to take him to an Apple store).
Dell, on the other hand, when I had a problem, just sent me a new machine via next-day air.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
>Secondly, instead of a post with a bunch of Screw Apple rants, you could just explain what happened and ask for advice.
I’m beyond that. We’ve had so many problems with Apple stuff that the ads just piss me off when I see them. Advice? Wouldn’t have helped in our prior hardware problems. Won’t help fix my son’s USB port.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Myabe it just because you spent too many hours on your Mac, and anything can be wrong will go wrong in the worst coincidence.
I just remembered my old faulty G5. Oh, dark days.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
It’s the difference between advertising based on Brand and advertising based on Product Features.
“Pepsi Generation” vs. “Exhilarating, Invigorating, Aids Digestion”
A brand that is able to position itself as “cool” certainly gains a measure of immediate success. But as we all know, trends are trends, and what’s cool today is lame tomorrow.
I suspect some of Apple’s current popularity is due to this cool-factor, but it’s hard to deny that they do make quality products that offer a clear alternative to other competitors, and that this very real and organic word-of-mouth as done wonders for their success. If iPods and Macs and iPhones didn’t largely work as-advertised, they wouldn’t continue to sell or be cool. That is, if the features didn’t largely match the brand promise, people would start talking about it.
Not a lot of people outside of Silicon Valley and the tech blogs know about the Reality Distortion Field (or even who Steve Jobs is). All they know is their personal experience with a product that they bought because they hoped it would solve some (real or perceived) problem they were having.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Robert: Number 16. Yes Apple’s products are aesthetically well made. But they are generally well made underneath also. The craftsmanship extends below the surface. Go to http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com/ and read about what an expert on the Microsoft .NET framework has to say about Apple’s Cocoa development framework. If you are technically inclined it might surprise you. I am an engineer by training and know how difficult it can be to make a good product. It is not easy. I use Windows XP and Mac OS X on a daily basis in my work and I do appreciate the craftsmanship that has gone into Apple’s products.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Richard: I do appreciate that work too. I even appreciate the aesthetics of my Mac.
It’s just that the brand promise of Apple is even more: that I’ll be able to run my Mac, even if I’m an idiot, and that it’ll behave a lot better than my Windows boxes. I haven’t found that to be the case, at all.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Kevin: “Not a lot of people outside of Silicon Valley and the tech blogs know about the Reality Distortion Field (or even who Steve Jobs is).”
I know that. When I went to Europe earlier this year I hardly saw a Macintosh at all. Maybe those people outside of Silicon Valley know something I don’t?
:-)
November 17th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Robert as an ex-microsoftee converted to Apple I must admit I do love my MAC Pro and find the ads funny but I think the honeymoon maybe coming to an end.
First the iphone upgrade/bricking did not go down well with developers. Reluctantly Apple Czar Jobs agreed to an SDK in Feb.
The recent Leopard upgrade has caused many friends problems with their Mac’s even the recent upgrade fix. The latest seems to be the battery being rapidly drained.
The recent success of Apple is bringing it the same problems as Microsoft. As more people use it for varied things and as more applications are developed for it, the less stable the OS platform becomes or in other words the harder it is to upgrade/support.
Apple PR hard better get ready to earn their money. As you say the PR lady in the ad may soon be on the otherside soon.
From a personal experience the PR exec’s representing Apple UK are amazingly arrogant. They remind me of the days when everyone loved Microsoft.
They think everyone loves Apple and thus they never return calls or emails. Pride comes before a fall!
November 17th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
[...] has a piece today on Apple’s brand promise that nails it precisely, never seen him hit the mark so well. [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Lets get all disclaimers aside. I’ve used all possible OS’ and systems (even VAX), and personally consider myself a Linux fanboy. I have every major OS represented in my house.
IMHO OSX is the best desktop OS, and Macbook Pro is a beautifully designed machine. However, Apple, for whatever reason seems to get a free ride on all kinds of issues, partly due to its marketing machine. Whether it be not including Java, or funky hardware issues, or the lockdown of their products, they get a free pass on issues for which they would be skewered if they were any other company.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Your problem Robert is that you shouldn’t be buying Apple to start with, apparently they don’t want you as a customer. ;-) Here’s what one guy said on my post…
“and yes, apple doesnt need or want customers like that - but that is a separate brand issue”
I asked him to call Apple for confirmation that they don’t want you as a customer - he never got back to me. ;-)
November 17th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Andy: sometimes I feel like I’m not cool enough, or smart enough, to be an Apple customer, yeah.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
[...] attitude was more than evident when people like Rob Hyndman, Robert Scoble and Dave Winer write posts about problems they have experienced with Leopard. They get called [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
[...] his own defense, Scoble has come out saying we’re misunderstanding him, but then devolves back into basically equivocating Apple users with “idiots,” whose [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Robert,
Thank you for this post - I thought I was losing it. I use a Dell laptop running XP and have a blackberry and I am ridiculed by Mac fans - and I ask why? I really don’t care if they have a Mac or a Vic20 or whatever. I just want to get some work done and yet it is as if I am crazy for not having a Mac? For what I use MsWord and Thunderbird and Firefox why do I need a new iTop - thingie? iPhone for what e-mail and talking? My Blackberry seems to do that O.K. I listen to tunes on my iPod, (well I used to but the battery croaked and now only works when it is plugged into the wall - so I have to borrow my daughters new i-pod Nano).
Sorry but what is wrong with being out of the loop in the buying frenzy for new tech equipment. I love technology - but nowhere near as much as I love snowboarding or spending time with friends - friends that don’t care about computers - because at the end of the day they are tools and not becoming a tool is my main objective.
Cheers - Eric
P.S. that PR fumble on Valleywag is classic - that is so seriously bad PR that I thought it was a skit. That first dude being interviewed looked so scared I thought he was going to crap his pants - like Martin Short in the 80’s that nervous guys all shakey muldoon - (http://youtube.com/watch?v=FOLBQxk72NY).
November 17th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Robert,
I’ve used nothing but Macs since 1984 (except for a few VAXen early on) but I’m no fanboy.
I note that some of the first comments on your blog post when you had update problems were from Mac users who wanted to help. For every dweeb fan boy you’ll also find supportive fellow users.
If the problems recur, post details and you’ll get a lot of help.
I’d say, use what you like, and if you prefer Windows (shudder), I wish you all the best.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Scoble Violates Apple Fanboy Rule #1
The first tip? “Never Admit Fault With Apple Around Non-Mac People”.
The reason? People love to pile on and are looking for any excuse they can to show that their decision was right and yours was wrong.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Robert, you are employing the hasty generalization fallacy argument. Even with your dinner with “smart guys” and the supportive comments you get here, you don’t have enough observed evidence to warrant a logical conclusion. Hey, it’s your world and your perception, I get that. Many people are of the perception, based on “their” evidence, that we didn’t land on the moon. It’s YOUR Mac reality, and that’s cool. But, this argument is similar to what car fans engage in. A few years ago I bought a brand new BMW 3 series, based on their “branding”, always in C&D’s Top 10 cars, etc. Biggest piece of crap I ever owned. Was in the shop more often than it was on the road it seemed. And guess what? I was able to find enough people with the same experience I had to think BMW’s weren’t what people said they were. Does that mean I can logically conclude BMW’s ads are lies? No. You are employing the same argument here.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Robert, the Mac is not perfect. But it is dramatically better than the alternative. The MacBook Pro I’m typing this on now had to be sent back in the first two days thanks to a rare hardware bug. But it’s been lights-out perfect since. I’ve been vocle when I’ve seen issues with my Mac products, and will continue to be. I just hope we don’t end up dissuading any would-be converts to the platform.
It’s not that we Mac users think the problems are our fault. It’s just that they are so much less common than on alternative platforms, and often, easier to fix ourselves. Of course, hardware issues are hardware issues, and Apple tends to step up quickly to fix them as they come up.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Scoble,
You paid for a product (Leopard) and it had issues. So take it to the Apple Store and have them look at it. Or try a reinstall. That’s why they have Apple Geniuses there. To help users. I could see your complaining if they didn’t offer support. But they do.
Sorry, but the ad IS funny. I also think it’s funny how the Mac has, what, 8% market share? And you’d think they had 90%. Windows users must really be on the defensive if they are going to worry about little old Apple.
They’re not worried, are they?
November 17th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Louis: I really don’t agree. Yeah, my Mac has been fun to use and it has been better at some things, but my Windows machines have never been in the shop so I can’t claim that my Mac machines run better.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
We believe Apple’s marketing so deeply that we aren’t willing to question it.
Scoble, Microsoft has always had a more rabid following (ok, Microsoft’s following consists of paid shills but still) - 90% of the computers sold are Windows PCs by default. How often do workers in corporations get asked what computer they’d like to buy? DELL even “recommends” Windows Vista Business or whatever. That’s not a problem in itself, but consider that every other OEM does the same thing and it makes no sense: how do they differentiate?
If you want Linux on a computer, you’re forced to buy a very particular hardware configuration on an OEM’s site so that making a price comparison with a machine that is sold by default with Windows becomes very difficult.
Finally, Mac fanbois may be bad, but xbox fanbois are the worst ever. Go ahead, post some flamebait about how PS3 is a better media player because it supports DIVX now and xbox 360 doesn’t. I bet the comment count will go over 200.
November 17th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I have to say, I agree with Chuck. Windows people are awfully defensive about a company with so little market share. Actually, its more like 5%, Chuck.
You have to admit Robert that one thing Apple does well is support. There’s no genius bar for Windows. Why aren’t you giving Apple a chance to fix it rather than getting so upset over it?
November 17th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
The common thing about most of these comments is that it’s MY FAULT that my Apple machine is having trouble.
Scoble, that’s because it is your fault. If you were running a 1 year old PC laptop, are you telling me you’d have no problems when you tried to install Vista over it? All your third-party apps would work?
I have quite a bit of experience with PCs. Sometime, maybe we can go to Fry’s or something and buy 5 identical laptops with Windows Vista on them and we can set them up side by side on the same network on my dinner table. Even if we follow the exact same procedure - hooking up, starting up, installing updates, basic office software - we will not have the same experience with these identical machines twice.
November 17th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Ok, so that ad does piss me off. Ever since I “upgraded” to leopard, my MacBook starts up slower, the fan is in use all the time, things are crashing, and applications run really slowly. WTF?!
November 17th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
“She’s a LOT closer to the PR lady in that video above, which is TOTALLY ironic”
You seem to have misused that word in TWO separate posts. Are you sure you know what it means?
November 17th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
I think it’s useful to identify the “expectations trap” here.
Let’s say you buy a Mac and expect that your experience will be dreamy. Your computer is attractive, well-made, and Mac OS X works smoothly. You will become an Apple fan - perhaps grudging, perhaps lukewarm, perhaps rabid - because it’s hard to take something that works and criticize it.
Let’s say you expect that your experience will be dreamy, but there’s a hardware fault, and the OS doesn’t work smoothly. You could develop a skeptical view of the hardware, the OS, or even the company. Or, you could interpret it as a normal thing with computers, which are no less computers regardless of who makes them or what they do.
My experience with Macs has been generally positive. My experience with Windows computers has been generally negative. My experience with Linux computers has been mixed… But guess what? They’re all friggin’ computers, and they don’t know or care that I’m trying to use them to get work done. I don’t get a hate on for Toshiba because I had a 30% failure rate out of the Toshiba laptops I deployed at one company - I just take that into consideration in my planning if someone says they gotta have a Toshiba. On the other hand, I’ve had about an 8% failure rate on Mac hardware.
It’s frustrating to be the guy who lands in the 8% “hardware failed” group. But does that mean it’s exhilarating to be the guy in the 92-93% “works perfectly” group? I don’t open Mail every day and say “oh my oh my OHMYOHMY”… I open it up and read my new messages. It’s more reliable at doing that than Outlook was on my Windows boxes, or anything on my Linux boxes, so I’ll keep my Mac. :-)
I think what you’re saying is that your expectations weren’t met. It’s fair for people to ask where your expectations came from. It’s equally fair for people to point out that going to *any* other computer just means you’re exposing yourself to that computer manufacturer’s failure rate, repair policies, stupid corporate practices, or what have you. Maybe you’re a huge Sony fanboi, so the Vaio might be a better platform for you - it seems to meet your expectations more clearly, and fortunately you haven’t fallen into Sony’s “failure rate” group. I don’t wish trouble on you, and I’m sorry your Mac flipped out - I know how disruptive computer problems can be, and I hope things settle down quickly.
And I hate being called a fanboi just because I don’t join in the cynical criticism of Apple, Mac hardware, or Mac OS X. It’s a company, and hardware, and an operating system. It meets my expectations. Hopefully whatever computer you use, it will meet yours.
November 17th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
Robert,
You’re in full-bore Apple-bashing mode now and it doesn’t become you. Nobody seriously believes that Apple is perfect and that there are no hardware or software issues. All one has to do is go to numerous Mac-related problem sites or even Apple’s own discussion boards to see that.
Apple’s “it just works” springs from a relative position compared to PCs with Windows, and in that comparison is absolutely true.
Also, I’m tired of all the crying of Apple-bashers over the “ARMY” of Apple fans and what they post. Have you ever SEEN what the anti-Apple crowd posts? Guess what? It’s the same stuff. And there are a lot more of them than Apple fans.
Despite all your posting of cults and blind beliefs by Apple’s “army”, these facts remain:
- Mac OS X Tiger (and now Leopard) is more favorably looked upon in review after review when compared to Vista.
- Vista was not the success Microsoft hoped for, no matter the PR spin of Microsoft’s finest.
- Mac hardware is extremely well-designed and price competitive. Reviews from even non-Apple-friendly sites confirm this. In fact, the MacBook Pro is the fastest Vista laptop there is at the moment.
- Apple’s iLife surpasses away anything like it on the PC, and is a huge advantage in getting a Mac.
- Apple Pro software such as Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio are highly respected and among the leaders in their field.
- The iPod has ruled the roost through many generations. People keep going back to it. Is it because they have maybe 30 songs purchased from iTunes? No, It’s because the whole package has worked better than anything else available.
- There are more, but I’ll close with the one always overlooked: Apple’s outstanding customer service. Yes, you can find war stories here and there, but at the end of the day I see and hear more good stories about Apple’s customer service than from any other tech company (maybe even all of them combined). Countless polls and reviews confirm this as well. And not just by a small margin, Apple overwhelmingly leads in customer service.
Bottom line is try to look past the Apple fans that lean to unreasonable (as I’ve looked past unreasonable Microsoft apologists for 25 years) and just look at Apple for what it is. Take off the tin-foil conspiracy hat and you’ll see all the “smug”, “controlling”, fanatical crap is just BS.
Apple is a company firing on all cylinders right now. Great hardware, software, products, customer support, etc., and it’s easy to take pot shots at them. But when you put on the tin-foil and rail against the “cult” only two things are true: 1) You’ll get lots of page hits; and 2) You’re no better than the fanatics on the Apple side you rail against.
November 17th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
A loser who can only write articles… Ummm., make that just a loser…
November 17th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Robert,
GET OVER IT. Take a long vacation. Go fly fish. Go rock climbing. Go volunteer at a local hospital. Anything. Just stop writing about stupid operating systems and pieces of plastic and metal.
November 17th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Good post, Robert.
I read your original “Screw you Apple” post yesterday, and there were about 70 posts. Overnight the number of posts to that blog entry has doubled, most of the new posts filled with invective from members of the Apple Jihad Army. I guess the Bat-Signal went out and they came here ready for blood, ready to shout down all criticism.
Same thing happened to Andy Beal (which you referred to), and also happened to Rob Hyndman, all within the last three days.
http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/11/14/ive-been-attacked-by-a-leopard/
http://www.robhyndman.com/2007/11/15/your-leopard-is-eating-my-self-esteem/
I referred to this yesterday, but have to make the point again: Apple’s smug ads are one thing, but what takes the cake is using BSOD icons in their shipping OS to represent Windows computers on a network. That is taking smugness to a level unheard of. Yet Apple fanbois ate it up. Anil Dash blogged about the smugness of Apple’s use of BSOD icons, and the Apple Jihad Army ripped him to ribbons too.
http://www.dashes.com/anil/2007/10/smug-ugly.html
It’s like Apple and their fanbois are so full of themselves that they are blinded as to how inapporpriate and childish that is. They think it’s “cool”, but it’s only cool to those within the same cult.
Now, I like my iPod and PowerBook (which I’m using to write this), but the arrogance of Apple and their disciples has gotten so out of hand, it’s almost comical.
November 17th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Scoble is a younger Dvorak. He writes a certain way to get the controversy going. Apple hardware sucks, OK, we know that, been like that for years. Stuff breaks, we know that also, been like that for years. The only thing Apple does better is PR. They’ve got the whole world hypnotized with their shiny brushed metal and glow in the dark logo. Wait till someone wakes up and starts asking whether the stock really is worth $165 or whatever ridiculous amount of Bernanke Dollars it is now.
Contrary to #43, Apple is riding on only one cylinder, they’ve got everyone mesmerised with the Steve Jobs turtle neck sweater cult.
Sorry, guys, you still wont have a 9 inch dick or DD breasts if you use a Mac. Heck, I work at a company where they let you choose between a PC and a Mac laptop, and I chose the HP laptop. I will not use an Apple even if its free! So there.
November 17th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
First a quick bio. I first used computers in 1959 (a militarized IBM 704, vacuum tube registers big enough to walk through). I have since used Unix, Windows-compatible, and Mac more or less continuously at work. I piut a man onthe moon in the 60’s.
I remember the last time a Mac OS had a bug that caused it to fail. It was around 1990 (system 7.6). After some rocky times with the OS X beta, I cannot remember a system crash. Once in a while Safari will choke on an unresponsive web site, so I start Safari up again.
The only hardware failures I have had was one in my late 605- the disk crashed within weeks, an Apple tech came to my house and replaced it under warranty. About two years ago my neighborhood had two power failures in a week, and the second one fried part of my power supply.
While trolling an OS X support and discussion site, I have never had a problem to bring to it (I joined to get grass roots experience with the OS X beta) but have tried to help others. I would say that the vast majority in this site have had one problem, and a few people have several problems. There are real Mac hardware and software bugs, there are problems that stem from Haxies and other 3rd party software that tamper with and try to game the OS, and there are switchers from Windows-only who try to make the Mac like work like a Dell or try to use workarounds they had developed in the old PC days.
I favor Macs because they work well, have been super reliable, and look good (a real point in a domestic setting). It is clear that OS X is more complex, especially in its Unix structure, then previous Mac OS’s. It is more difficult to diagnose when a problem pops up than pre-X. Computers are complex technology. But the Macs I have used over the years have been easier to use, more thus more useful, and more reliable (since OS 8) than the Windows-compatible stuff I saw around me (and used at times).
And that’s why I continue to use them. It would help you if you were willing to unbend your pride and ask for help sometimes, when you have a computer misbehave.
Sorry to hear about your not being given a free Mac. Neither have I, but then I don’t go on the air and yell screw Apple a dozen times.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Just wanted to share a different viewpoint.
I wrote a similar article after purchasing my first Mac earlier this year - http://www.joiningdots.net/blog/2007/04/how-accurate-are-those-mac-ads.html - and received my one and only troll comment. But. I also received a pile of helpful tips from Apple experts that far far outweighed the grumpy zealot. And they even stuck up for me against that (unsurprisingly anonymous) troll comment. As an Apple newbie, I was grateful for their support.
Typing this on my MacBook Pro… running Vista. I know, I know. That makes me a heretic to both sides :-)
November 17th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
I find this whole debate slightly tiring (to use an understatement) and find these Apple ads extremely boring. For the last 25 years in the software industry I have used both, Macs and PCs - at the moment I am very happy with Vista Ultimate, no reason and no plans to change. The only really annoying experience are the people at very street corner trying to tell me what a bad thing I am using …
November 17th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
What’s worse? A smug claim of superiority, or a cheesy and hollow claim that The Wow Starts Now? Both platforms can disappoint, and perfection is as yet impossible, but I’ll vote with my dollars for a company that at the very least STRIVES for innovation.
Posted from my iPhone. Which in itself amazes me and is kind of my point.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
[...] Apple has to take a lot of crap from users all over the globe since releasing Leopard. Upgrade issues also happened to some higher profiled people such as Robert Scoble. There are some interesting posts on his blog which caused a bit of a stir in the last couple of days. See here and then here. [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
[...] A series of incidents keep bringing down my expectations on quality from Apple. I agree with Scoble on the brand promise, which simply is not there lately. I don’t see the same customer friendly staff in [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Smug like the Apple boy in the commercials. I much prefer quirky, self-effacing PC, even if he is imperfect.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
One more thing… I’ll also be going with the computer company that was first to drop floppy disks.. It’s that attitude I’m buying into, and if that comes with smugness, well I’ll just be ignoring that then.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
I have a Vaio; my daughter has a Mac. We’re both happy. The Apple ads are quite funny; there are always a couple of Macs around a table these days - they look nicer than Dells (yeuuch) but way less cool than my Vaio.
Apple’s always Apple and its brand thingy is pretty transparent and IMHO harmless. What’s more interesting (to me anyway) is the extent to which Microsoft captured and keeps in thrall the average IT department in the UK - M-S marketing is arguably more subtle than Apple’s but doesn’t get discussed much.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Although I’m skeptical of the whole “brand promise” premise, what is the brand promise of Microsoft? Vista promised “the wow.” Apparently, it didn’t deliver. Zune promised “the social.” Again, no delivery. Maybe some people buy into Apple’s brand promise because for them, what’s in the ads is corroborated by reality. In my experience, your experience is atypical. Surveys about repair history and quality of support in the industry seem to confirm this.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
#45,
“Contrary to #43, Apple is riding on only one cylinder, they’ve got everyone mesmerised with the Steve Jobs turtle neck sweater cult.”
Thanks for proving my point. This is the kind of nonsense I was talking about; pulling out the old argument of a “cult” is BS and not a real argument at all. I posted a number of points, and am “countered” with a one-liner modeled after the same tired garbage Apple-bashers have been spewing for 20 years. Whatever.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Robert, you may be getting caught in trying to eloquently express the “Brand Promise”. The Brand Promise of Apple, as expressed in the commercials above, is simple: it’ll be better than Windows.
End of story.
And your frustration, it sounds like, is that you’re getting largely the same experience (or even worse).
Which sucks. I mean no it shouldn’t be perfect. But it should be, according to the ads, better. Better with peripherals, requiring less restarts, better with viruses, requiring less user intervention, etc, etc, etc.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
[...] Scobleizer vents his frustration with the Apple Brand Juggernaut in his post today. He seems upset that Mac users are so vehement in defense of Apple products. Well, after [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
[...] Scobleizer wrote an interesting post that expressed some dissatisfaction with both Apple and the community that supports Apple so much. Here’s a list of brand image promises made by Apple, according to Scobleizer: [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Excellent article. Best one I read so far on Mac fanboyism.
I own a macbook and had several problems with it, but for some reason, I am just addicted to its koolness and find it really really hard to open my blog and rant about it.
But my windows machine shows one glitch, I am all up and shouting on a platform.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
[...] Scobleizer wrote an interesting post that expressed some dissatisfaction with both Apple and the community that supports Apple so much. Here’s a list of brand image promises made by Apple, according to Scobleizer: [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Don’t trash Mossberg, even if he gets free hardware; if anything, he’s very hard on Apple when they screw up. There’s three kinds of tech journalists: People like Dvorak and Thurott and anyone in The Register who trash Apple ALL the TIME, for page hits. This is, by far the biggest category. People like Ikhnato and Le Vitus who like Apple products generally, but give solid reviews and point out problems when they arise. And “lawful neutrals”– like Mossberg.
As a stockholder, when Iknatho said he’d held an IPhone in February and it actually worked (not a given), I knew it actually worked and bought more stock. Most others were theorizing about why Apple shouldn’t even get into the handset biz. When Mossberg said he liked Leopard, I knew it worked for him on his set up. To be sure, if you get a bad DVD or have some conflict on your machine, your mileage may vary. I always wait for the first patch, at least, and don’t do OS upgrades without an explicit need/want.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Scoble….sorry to hear about your Mac issues…as they say, sh*t happens, even with the best tech hardware. That said, whether other Mac users are smug, arrogant or cult-like is no more relevant to your situation than the fact that there are thousands of Mac users (like me) who have never had our Macs in for repair. So, our anecdotal evidence affirming the PR mantra, ‘it just works,’ tends to balance out your blog rant. I couldn’t care less what Steve Jobs is smoking, as long as I can enjoy getting my computing done reliably..ymmv.
November 17th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Nobody is perfect. No machine is perfects, certainly no software is perfect. What you seem to not understand is that overall the Mac hardware and software are a better build. You claim all your Windows machines and I’m guessing every single one you have ever used have never had to go to the shop. If thats the case, why use Apple stuff at all? Go back to Windows and forget about all this Mac stuff. I always tell people use what your comfortable with or happy with. If I claimed that none of my Windows hardware ever failed to the point of a return to the shop, I would stick with Windows and not bother with Apple gear.
November 17th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
[...] has a piece today on Apple’s brand promise that nails it precisely, never seen him hit the mark so well. [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Scoble:
I get pissed at Apple a lot of the time too. But I always come back their machines are better overall and the OS just pounds Windows into the ground.
–Sparky
November 17th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
[...] The brand promise of Apple « Scobleizer Scoble is right. I ask Mac users all of the time why they stay with Mac when it seems their machines are constantly broken. They have no answer. They just do - and they just take their machines into the shop over and over and over again. And shell out (tags: apple mac PR customerservice productreliability scoble) [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I think you’re overgeneralizing the Apple/Mac issues with the problems you’re having with your specific machine. I bouthg an iBook 7 years ago, used it to death while finishing up my Masters, and gave it to my mother-in-law (who still uses it). The only problems I’ve had with it involved replacing the hard drive–after five solid years of use.
When I bought my new Powerbook three years ago, it was just as the MacBooks were coming out and I have yet to have a problem with it. I’m not a tech person by a long shot and I haven’t “bought” into the ads. I was given a Mac almost 10 years ago after whining about the PC I had. I fell in love. It honestly didn’t take any time to learn it (so, yes, it can be operated by idiots)and when I had the cash, I bought my iBook. Like I said, I’m on my third Mac and still, I’ve only had to replace one hard drive on one system.
But, I’m not a tech. Maybe that makes a difference.
November 17th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
[...] You can read the rest of this blog post by going to the original source, here [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Otto said, “While I love Apple products, I too dislike the smugness attitudes. Honor people and let them make their own choices.” Very well stated.
I’m a huge Apple fan. Love my iPod and iMac. Have bought and used Apple computers since 1979. In fact I owned serial number 3000! But I hate the arrogance and actions of the Apple Fan-bois.
Good for you Robert. Thoughtful piece. Though I may not agree with all of it, well put.
I held off upgrading recently cause my wife had a major paper due in her master’s program. I like Apple, but sometimes it just makes sense to be cautious.
Now I’m off to upgrade to Leopard….
November 17th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
Robert
Have you ever stopped to consider that those Fanboys are fanboys because they have had a favourable experience with Apples? Or that your sample of one (you) actually represents the overall picture with regards to Mac vs PC? Surely not. Have there been as many reports about Leopard problems as about Vista problems? Surely not.
I object to being labled a fanboy because I made a switch to a better, more useable, more reliable and better designed OS on which I make a living - using an Apple product (Final Cut Pro) which totally transformed the industry in which I work. I can only assume that this is so called ‘trolling’ for hits on your blog - you can’t really mean all this can you? Wouldn’t a bit of real journalism on the actual situation of Mac vs PC be in order, rather than a personal rant?
November 17th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Overall, people who criticize Apple get bombed when they are being dishonest, stupid, unfair, and most especially when they are being clueless. Lots of people can criticize about and get away with it. Truth is, I think you could do so. You are knowledgeable, you have spent time with both the PC and Mac, and you are generally honest. But your childish rant yesterday totally ruined your credibility. Until you own up to the fact that you misused your bully pulpit your credibility will be toast with Mac users. Be a man and admit that you overstepped the line yesterday.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Your unfortunate personal experience not withstanding, if in general, Leopard requires less troubleshooting than Vista, then Apple’s TV commercial is not misleading.
I’ve no doubt that, in terms of percent adoption and overall satisfaction, Leopard’s first year will prove to be more successful than Vista’s.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Ben: you must have missed that I hang around geeks all day long. Most of the bloggers in my community have been using Macs for a long time. When I speak at conferences all you usually see are Macs.
But lately I’ve been hearing more and more about problems. Even Leo Laporte, when I listened to him on KGO radio last weekend, isn’t as excited about Apple’s products as he usually is. His listeners are turning on Apple’s products lately and are dissatisfied.
Real journalism? Well, let me do real journalism then. I’d love to be able to interview an Apple employee about these issues but their PR team won’t let me near a real employee who’ll tell me anything about failure rates and such.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
david: ruined my credibility? Let’s see. How? By reporting that my machine was rebooting and crashing and rebooting and crashing? That’s what it was doing. Even after zapping my PRAM it needed several more “safe” reboots before it’d start back up.
By reporting that my machine has been in the shop twice? Or that my son’s machine has been in twice and needs to go back again?
Oh, by saying “screw you Apple?”
Well, the brand promise of Apple is that it’s going to be better than Windows. It’s not in my experience. And it’s more expensive.
If that ruins my credibility in your eyes I think you need to go read Valleywag or the Register for your news cause you’ll want someone more “credibile.”
November 17th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Brett: Vista runs great on my Mac in Parallels. It also ran great on my other machine before I gave it away (I gave it away because I bought into the idea that the Mac is better).
November 17th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Mac user since the Lisa (I was in high school at the time, but a friend of my father had one and I got to play with it). I’ve owned almost exclusively Mac computers since the 512k, so I could be classified as a fanboy, I suppose. But that doesn’t mean I’m a fan of the way they’re being run right now!
Apple does a lot more stuff right than MS still, but you’re definitely right about the smug ads. I hate those ads. I HATE when they attack security people pointing out flaws because they would rather protect the image that Macs don’t get viruses than just fix the problem and thank the security researcher.
And I hate the fact that I filed numerous and repeated bug reports during Leopard beta testing, almost all of which were labeled as duplicates and yet not a single GUI issue I brought up changed at all (except that the menu bars got slightly more blurred rather than getting a freaking OFF switch).
November 17th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
[...] need to check this out … Robert Scoble has a terrific piece up on the Apple brand promise but more importantly is the link to this article at [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Push on Robert! I use Mac and Windows Vista PCs and they each have their quirks and things that tick me off but I use the right tool for the right job, depending on what I’m developing and I try to work around the problems. We need more honesty in the PC industry and less Silicon Valley bubble PC (political correctness). There is definitely a certain “McCarthy-ism” about speaking bad of Macs if you want to be in the cool, Web 2.0 crowd. I’ve been a Windows developer forever and I didn’t get my first Mac until I started learning Ruby on Rails because that’s what everybody else seemed to be using. As some Rails developers joke, their Macbook is a $2,500 TextMate machine! If you’re a Rails developer and you don’t have a Mac you’re looked upon like a retard by some. Just go to the next RailsConf, you’ll see almost 100% Macs everywhere.
Founder, Orange County Ruby User’s Group
http://www.ocruby.org
November 17th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Ooh! David (from post 80), you are becoming all judgemental
Look at what you are saying
A guy who spent twice more than what he would have spent on a better PC, has no right to rant about his frustration. You are a customer yourself, would you stay quiet if your car broke down and does not start, if your tv hangs up in the middle of your favorite soap.
A mac is no different. If i spend thousands of dollars on a mac and it does not work, i have every right to rant the hell about it. There is nothing childish about it. It is genuine expression of a customer’s dissatisfaction
November 17th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
I’m really surprised that you would write such a rant, Scoble. Did you really think Macs would “always work”? I don’t believe it.
PC World’s and Consumer Reports’ computer reliability surveys have consistently shown that Apple’s desktops and laptops are among the MOST reliable*, year after year after year. (That seemed to put PC World in a awkward position.)
Nevertheless, the reliability surveys didn’t show Apple hardware and software to be flawless. There were no 100% satisfied, 100% reliable numbers in the surveys.
So how goofy is it for you to assume, as another commenter wrote, everything would always be dreamy?
And as for Mac fanboys versus Windows fanboys, there are a LOT MORE Windows fanboys writing nasty shit. Look around. Up until a few years ago, the online tech press was regularly writing articles skewering Apple, often unfairly. “Beleagured Apple”, “Rotten Apple”, etc.
Apple ain’t perfect, and let’s look at Microsoft. What kind of interesting things has that company done? Mercilessly destroying its competition, stealing code from Stacker and Apple, etc. Look at HP, Gateway, E Machines, Dell. They’ve all had hardware issues. Do we need a “Screw You!” to them too?
I don’t think Microsoft is the biggest villain ever. But in the Windows world, it seems Apple is the biggest villain. One PC Mag editorial a few years ago even criticized Apple for being so successful with the iPod. At that point the conventional wisdom was that Apple should be shriveling up and bowing to inevitable defeat. Inevitable iPod Killer coming soon!
Now, Scoble says “screw you” to Apple because he’s having computer problems. And Apple’s supposed to be perfect. And those mean old Apple fanboys are leaving mean messages. Like what, I wonder? Writing mean things like, “Screw you!” to Robert? They’re evil!!;)
Bot
an electronic Apple fanboy (who doesn’t leave nasty messages)
* Consumer Reports’ latest reliability survey indicated, I think, that Apple laptops had slipped in reliability. I haven’t read it, only a quick summary.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
I does seem to me that Mr. Scoble is arguing from a position of ignorance. I learned long ago not to extrapolate my personal experience to that of the rest of the world.
My own personal experience has been that my Macs have broken more often than my PCs, but that while they were working, they were vastly more pleasant to use.
A little Googling will show that larger surveys of users consistently reveal that Apple builds reliable hardware and software.
Here’s a link that claims PCMag consistently ranks Apple very high. I didn’t take the time to go directly to PCMag to verify the claim, I’m sure someone will refute the claim if it’s false.
http://www.applelinks.com/index.php/more/apple_the_lexus_of_pcs_macs_ace_pcmags_service_and_reliability_survey_again/
I believe JD Power usually ranks Apple highly as well. I suppose it’s possible that Apple pays off all these sources to say nice things about them. If that’s true, surely Microsoft and HP could send a few bucks to PCMag to tip the scales.
Mr. Scoble is just one person, I’m just one other. I wouldn’t extrapolate either of our experiences to the broader population. Unfortunatly he would, and I think that discounts the value of his “journalism”.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Hey Robert, like you I’m another ex-MSFT employee who recently moved to the Mac. I bought my first Macbook Pro about a month ago. And while I love the hardware design, and certainly don’t hate OSX, I did a podcast recently saying how, after a few weeks of using it, I didn’t see what the big fuss was about. I don’t think OSX is that much different to Vista. Both have features the other doesn’t. Both have their own problems. The funny thing I’ve found is that since buying my Mac, all of the Mac fanboys who have been ragging on me for years are now saying “oh yeah, lots of problems. This sucks (eg Finder), that sucks (dragging apps to Trash doesn’t really delete the app), but give it SIX MONTHS, and you’ll love it.”
Again - I *LOVE* the hardware. Sweet as. But my feeling is that Microsoft have pretty much caught up on the OS front. Of course, on the MBP I can run both Vista and OSX, which perhaps gives it a slight advantage over my Lenovo desktop. Now I have the best of both worlds. Sweet hardware and two operating systems.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
ex2bot: listen, I’m in the computer industry. I know that they’ll have problems from time to time.
But watch Apple’s ads. They don’t talk about potentially having problems. They make it sound like everything will always be peachy keen if you just join the iKult and buy a Mac.
I’m tired of the marketing. Well, that and now my email hasn’t been working since Thursday because of one of the crashes. Sigh.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
I really cannot believe some of the comments by Apple Fanboys here.
Reading Scoble’s posts raised doubts about the Apple Fanboys’ credibility, but the comments duly confirmed them.
They really are highly self defensive ra__ists
November 17th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Okay, one more observation:
Robert, you’re a computer expert, right? You are an expert troubleshooter after years and years of using computers. A good deal of that troubleshooting knowledge will help you with your Mac. A good deal won’t. I don’t know how long you’ve been using Macs, but is it possible that you need to learn more about Mac troubleshooting?
I’m not saying your software problems are your fault. But the sad reality is that computer users must be effective troubleshooters. On any platform.
Bot
an electronic Apple fanboy who has manners
November 17th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Cameron: if I could run OSX on other hardware I would. My Sony has been through a lot more hell than my Mac has. Its battery lasts longer and it’s never had to go into the shop. Well, I take that back, the left mouse button is failing so it’ll have to go in too, but that’s after two years of giving it hard-core use.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
ex2bot: >I don’t know how long you’ve been using Macs, but is it possible that you need to learn more about Mac troubleshooting?
THAT IS A BULLS**T ANSWER. Especially in defense of a company that has ads that Apple does. Apple doesn’t talk about “you’ll need to know what PRAM is, or how to boot your computer in safe mode.” No, Apple’s marketers have pushed their computers as “easy to use and safe from bugs.”
Grrrr. It’s this ATTITUDE that really pisses me off.
November 17th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
Re: the ads
Do Microsoft’s ads warn Windows users about potential troubles.
When I authenticated Windows (like a couple dozen times, it seeemed), Microsoft was promising that Windows Genuine Advantage was going to benefit me somehow. All it’s doing for me is slowing down my machine and hassling me.
Why am I talking about WGI? I play Windows games in Boot Camp on my Macbook Pro. Yes, I’m an expert Windows user too. I just like my Macs’ Genuine Advantage hellofa lot better.
But those Windows games baby!!!
Bot
Windows and XBox 360 games, MacBook Pro for the serious stuff
November 17th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
In what magical world do advertisements reflect reality?
Remember that guy selling the spray stuff that supposedly could hide your bald spot?
How about the “herbal medicine” ads, such as weight loss of increasing sexual prowess?
Want a company that’s more respected? How about the Celebrex commercials that promised older couples with serious arthritis could dance, dance, dance the night away?
How about Microsoft who promised Windows 98 would be “more reliable”. I remember that. It said so during install. Someone even had it crash at that point (or made it crash) and posted the picture on the Internet.
I’d love to live in a country where ads had to be truthful. It stinks that we don’t.
Now, as far as me suggesting you might need new troubleshooting experiences, I realized just before I hit submit that you might take that as an insult. A “your fault” thing.
It was NOT intended that way. It’s an observation after using Macs exclusively since 2001 that there are some entirely different troubleshooting practices with OS X compared to Windows. Again, it wasn’t intended as an insult or as condescension.
Bot
November 17th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
>Do Microsoft’s ads warn Windows users about potential troubles.
I don’t know. They said it’s the new “Wow” if I remember them right.
That’s far from “it’ll be better than your XP experience.” Or “it’ll be better for you than MacOSX.”
November 17th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Ed: >”There’s no genius bar for Windows.”
That’s true. But Best Buy has “Geek Squad” instead. I like that marketing better. I can grok computers that only need a geek to run them instead of a genius. :-)
November 17th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
How true. It’s an Apple Religion. Adam, Eve, and an Apple. Hmmm - ominous?
November 17th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
Mr Scoble. I believe you have lost your temper. There is no computer made that is 100% reliable. But there are computers that are MORE reliable than others. I have worked with Macs, Wintels and unix boxes for over 25 years. I know from experience which is the easiest to maintain. I know from experience which is the most reliable. I know from experience which is the easiest to upgrade software on. I have NEVER had one iota of a problem with all the macs i have run. I did get a dud of a PowerBook two years back but it was replaced within a few months as it became obvious it was a “lemon”. But overall the Macs have rock solid. I have never had any downtime with any of my desktops, I cant say the same for the wintel boxes. And i bet if you think back you’ll see that your experiences were less than stellar in the windows world. The Vaio is a nice laptop… but it doesn’t run Leopard. And there my friend is the catch-22. cheers and have a god one….
November 17th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
[...] as easy as file sharing going. Something that should “just work” didn’t, and while it doesn’t annoy as much as it does Scoble, or Dave, who had the annoyance of having an app he relies on break (no doubt as he has already [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
[...] consists of a mismatched video card and monitor. She has absolutely no idea how she is damaging the brand. Oh, well, let’s get a supervisor … wait .. [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Vanni: why do all the Apple FanBois only have one name? I swear, almost all of the pro-Apple posts have been made by anonymous people with one name and no blogs.
Sounds like Apple employees to me.
And I know some CTO’s who disagree with you on the maintainability of Apple’s vs. Windows machines. But they can be easily discounted cause they are those evil “enterprise” users who have hundreds of thousands of machines.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
I can imagine trying to “defend” Dell for something like this:
FRIEND: Your computer won’t boot? Have you tried Safe Mode, do you have SpinRite? Norton?
COMPUTER OWNER: Why should I need to buy SpinRite? Why should I even have to know about this stuff? It should JUST WORK! After all, Dell says my machine is “All Powerful. All Beautiful”* If it’s all powerful, it should FIX ITSELF!
Um, well, maybe you need to learn some Windows troubleshooting, you know, in case this ever ha-
Grrrr. It’s this ATTITUDE that really pisses me off. Dell says, “I’ll make it happen.*” They should make it happen and MAKE MY MACHINE WORK. Just work! Always. MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Ooh, calm down there tiger. Why don’t you just call Dell support?
No, no, NO! They PROMISED that their machines are ALL POWERFUL. Why should I need to call support if their ads are correct? Screw you, Dell!!!
Oh..kay.. How about Dell fan sites that offer support forums? You could look for a solution there. . .
Oh, yeah! Sure. Dell fanboys! They swamped my blog. What a horrible bunch of miscreants. I REFUSE to go to their support site. They’ll probably blame it on me.
Um, yeah. I’m out of ideas here man. Good luck.
Yeah, I’ll need it. I bought Dell.
—————————————
:) Next time, disgruntled Dell user goes to support site with huge chip on his shoulder and pisses off volunteers so they don’t want to help him.
All hypothetical, of course.
Bot
electronic hypothetical scenario generator
* These are quotes from ** actual Dell ads. ** No joke!
November 17th, 2007 at 7:17 pm
“But they can be easily discounted cause they are those evil “enterprise” users who have hundreds of thousands of machines.”
Come on, Robert. You know the Enterprise IT guys are all on the MSFT payroll. My current IT guy keeps us on XP– though he KNOWS we all use Macs at home (we’re scientists). What does HE use at home? A Mac. What critical piece of Windows software do we use? I don’t know– Outlook, maybe? A pretty weak app, if you ask me, in this age of GMail.
“Evil” is a value judgement; they certainly know who butters their bread, though.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
[...] as all devices and technology does. The Brand Promise of Apple is that I enjoy doing this. [From The brand promise of Apple « Scobleizer] You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not [...]
November 17th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
ex2bot: when I had a problem with a Dell machine they just FedExed me a new one.
anonymous Tom: your CTO gets paid by Microsoft? I’d love it if he’d come on my video and tell me that.
Maybe he keeps all the machines at work on Windows Windows because he knows he could push software to all 14,000 machines with the touch of a mouse (I’ve seen this done, it’s really awesome). Maybe he does it because he knows that he’d get fired for buying machines that cost more but that don’t provide more utility to the company. Maybe he does it because they are easier to program and because apps built 25 years ago still work on them? But, the idea that your CTO is on MSFT’s payroll is a fascinating one.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
Robert what do you think you’re doing? don’t you realize that you’ve crossed over into something completely different than just criticizing Apple or some of it’s rabid fans.
To most Mac users their mac is like their favorite car, it’s what they like and identify with, it appeals to them and they feel it fits their sense of style and that’s ok.
But….then there’s the other Mac fans, the ones who have crossed over from fandom to fanaticism, being an Apple fan and user isn’t just a choice to them but the only way of life, their Macs have become a religion and their devoted..it’s a belief.
Their not Catholics or Jews or Muslims, their Mac fanatics and Apple is their church and Steven Jobs their Messiah.They have made the choice to carry a cross on behalf of Apple at any cost, logic be damned.
You can always tell the Mac fanatic by their defensive posture, the blank stare that you get when you even suggest that you have a problem with your Mac,the accusations that you must be an agent of Bill Gates and his minions.
You realize that there’s a problem when they refer to Steven Jobs as Steve when they talk about Apple or one of the corporations products, even though they have never met much less been in the same room with him.
I don’t believe that you bought into the hype Robert or that you where suckered by the Reality distortion field.no the problem here is that you have me too syndrome, especially living and working where you do,
You felt that you had to do what everybody else in the valley is doing, and in the end you were let down by your decision.
I’d respect you more if you used a think pad with Ubuntu Linux, not because I like Linux..I Don’t, but a least it would show that you really did your own thing.
But a least you’re willing to admit it and call Apple out on it, it’s what Apple needs, in the end it would make it a much better company, strange concept for Apple..accountability to it’s fans and users.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
I assume there are people dumb enough to buy into this pathetic rant. But anyone familiar with Apple products and those designed exclusively for Windows is well aware that Macs are far more reliable. And it isn’t that Consumer Reports and JD Powers studies say so, it’s just because the hardware and software are designed to operate together, and don’t require zillions of combinations to be accounted for. Of course there’s the matter of vir