Twitter reactions to Apple's OS update

Lest you think I’m the only one having problems:

JesseStay: the 10.4.11 update killed my Mac too. :-(

windley (he’s the former CTO for the state of Utah): “the 10.4.11 update killed my Mac too. :-(“ Hey, Phil, can’t you pick a different line than Jesse? Heheh.

ordinal: Killed my Powerbook too. I had to erase & install.

Comments

  1. Killed my MacBook too.

    Reinstalled it (without erasing) and everything is fine now. Really scared me anyway…

    Glad to see I’m not the only one with this problem.

  2. Killed my MacBook too.

    Reinstalled it (without erasing) and everything is fine now. Really scared me anyway…

    Glad to see I’m not the only one with this problem.

  3. sorry – it was me copying windley. :) For me it didn’t necessarily die
    on me but I get about 2 grey screens of death a day and even more
    frequently my DNS craps out causing me to have to reboot to get it
    to come back up

  4. sorry – it was me copying windley. :) For me it didn’t necessarily die
    on me but I get about 2 grey screens of death a day and even more
    frequently my DNS craps out causing me to have to reboot to get it
    to come back up

  5. I cannot comment about 10.4.11, I moved both the MBP and G5 to 10.5 and subsequently 10.5.1. Neither have had any issues to speak of. Throughout the 10.4 life-cycle I never experienced an upgrade issue. Am I lucky?

  6. I cannot comment about 10.4.11, I moved both the MBP and G5 to 10.5 and subsequently 10.5.1. Neither have had any issues to speak of. Throughout the 10.4 life-cycle I never experienced an upgrade issue. Am I lucky?

  7. The install of Leopard went smoothly, although it took a very long time, and the CD failed the Integrity Check the first time. HOWEVER, some of my apps are now broken, and I mean the latest versions of them. Biggest issues are gimp (crashes with ugly error messages while starting) and OpenOffice (opens slowly, OS X says it timed out, then voila! it opens, but it also seems a little flaky on some operations). So now I’m doing my graphics work back on the PC, which is ok except for the pain in the neck moving files around. The latest upgrade to 10.5.1 has not resolved these issues.

    On the whole, the experience has been about the same as when I upgraded the PC from W2K to Win XP, which broke about the same number of apps, percentage-wise.

    I admit I haven’t had the nerve to move to Vista, and I may never. It’s the reason I bought the Macbook instead of a new Windows-based laptop. Too many ugly stories about Vista from people I work with who did install Vista — and sfaik they installed it correctly; they aren’t screw-ups.

  8. The install of Leopard went smoothly, although it took a very long time, and the CD failed the Integrity Check the first time. HOWEVER, some of my apps are now broken, and I mean the latest versions of them. Biggest issues are gimp (crashes with ugly error messages while starting) and OpenOffice (opens slowly, OS X says it timed out, then voila! it opens, but it also seems a little flaky on some operations). So now I’m doing my graphics work back on the PC, which is ok except for the pain in the neck moving files around. The latest upgrade to 10.5.1 has not resolved these issues.

    On the whole, the experience has been about the same as when I upgraded the PC from W2K to Win XP, which broke about the same number of apps, percentage-wise.

    I admit I haven’t had the nerve to move to Vista, and I may never. It’s the reason I bought the Macbook instead of a new Windows-based laptop. Too many ugly stories about Vista from people I work with who did install Vista — and sfaik they installed it correctly; they aren’t screw-ups.

  9. Huh…

    Almost makes me GLAD that Apple officially end-of-life’ed Panther (just four years after releasing it), so it’ll get no further bug fixes or security updates. I’d hate my Panther install to get trashed.

  10. Huh…

    Almost makes me GLAD that Apple officially end-of-life’ed Panther (just four years after releasing it), so it’ll get no further bug fixes or security updates. I’d hate my Panther install to get trashed.

  11. I upgraded my Macbook and haven’t experienced any problems yet. I updated my Mac Mini to the latest Tiger and haven’t experienced any problems either.

    As with any OS, there will be people with problems. I hardly would call OSX a disaster though (directed at #10 and his ridiculous statement).

  12. I upgraded my Macbook and haven’t experienced any problems yet. I updated my Mac Mini to the latest Tiger and haven’t experienced any problems either.

    As with any OS, there will be people with problems. I hardly would call OSX a disaster though (directed at #10 and his ridiculous statement).

  13. [...] “Neat” ain’t the word, my friend. My guess is that since Camp Lejeune doesn’t house legitimate employees (like me), it certainly wouldn’t purchase a trailer park (which Google Maps says doesn’t exist) to house illegitimate employees. And, if the government were going to house illegal employees, I’d guess that they’d use the old Knox mobile home park land and either temporary shelters or mobile homes, instead of buying an existing mobile home park. ‘Cuz, if you were gonna violate federal law, you’d wanna be sneaky about it, right? I certainly would. Looks like MacOS isn’t all that and a bag of chips. [...]

  14. So Robert, what’s your point? Yes, some are having some problems for who knows what reason, too many variables to know. What percentage is it in total? Is it a “real” problem or just that the vocal minority (twitter/blogs) are the ones you are paying attention to? 5 installs here and no glitches. 6 installs by my novice relatives and only one minor glitch. 6 friends with no glitches. I’m sorry Apple sucks for you but they’re golden for me.

  15. So Robert, what’s your point? Yes, some are having some problems for who knows what reason, too many variables to know. What percentage is it in total? Is it a “real” problem or just that the vocal minority (twitter/blogs) are the ones you are paying attention to? 5 installs here and no glitches. 6 installs by my novice relatives and only one minor glitch. 6 friends with no glitches. I’m sorry Apple sucks for you but they’re golden for me.

  16. 10.4.11 updated smoothly for me. Didn’t even unplug my Firewire drive. All is going fine on my 2002 G4 “Quicksilver” and always has, with the exception of the drive going bad after 4 years, but I just popped a new one in and, thanks to SuperDuper! and aforementioned external drive, no work time was lost.

  17. 10.4.11 updated smoothly for me. Didn’t even unplug my Firewire drive. All is going fine on my 2002 G4 “Quicksilver” and always has, with the exception of the drive going bad after 4 years, but I just popped a new one in and, thanks to SuperDuper! and aforementioned external drive, no work time was lost.

  18. I think the biggest issue is that these people saying they have issues often completely and utterly fail to describe their problems. “killed my Mac” is not descriptive. It doesn’t even begin to describe what the user observed. Did their mac catch on fire? Did it smoke? Did some major app fail to launch? Did it kernel panic?

    There is no information made available to 1. Figure out what happened. 2. Reproduce it so others don’t have to suffer the problem. For example, you said your Mac kept saying it needed to be restarted. This is a kernel panic. These are logged to /Library/Logs/panic.log. They often contain a huge amount of information as to the cause of your problem.

    There are many things that can cause a kernel panic. Such as bad third party drivers. Bad ram. Bad hardware. An incorrect install (such as pulling the plug with no battery or installing a fat 10.4 on a PPC because it seems “cool”). Hell, one of the most common reasons I’ve seen is people with bad USB hardware. They’ll have some cheap buggy USB speakers connected to a bad, unpowered USB hub. This is asking for a kernel panic. Or previous versions of Mac OS X may have accepted bad hardware by chance and allowed them to potentially corrupt data while the new versions of Mac OS X immediately call panic() when they see the bad hardware.

    A great example is when Microsoft first announced Windows supported FireWire. Expect it really didn’t. It supported FireWire hardware from *one* vendor ID and refused to look at anything else. So all the other third party manufacturers (IHVs) pretended their FW hardware was also from that one vendor so Windows would load it. Because there was no way to uniquely identify this FW hardware from one IHV to another, there was no way to make software workarounds for hardware bugs. This led to a mass of buggy hardware that was poorly tested. When connecting some of these devices to a Mac, which actually supported FireWire, the system would immediately kernel panic due to buggy hardware.

    Yes, I just blamed your kernel panic on Microsoft.

  19. I think the biggest issue is that these people saying they have issues often completely and utterly fail to describe their problems. “killed my Mac” is not descriptive. It doesn’t even begin to describe what the user observed. Did their mac catch on fire? Did it smoke? Did some major app fail to launch? Did it kernel panic?

    There is no information made available to 1. Figure out what happened. 2. Reproduce it so others don’t have to suffer the problem. For example, you said your Mac kept saying it needed to be restarted. This is a kernel panic. These are logged to /Library/Logs/panic.log. They often contain a huge amount of information as to the cause of your problem.

    There are many things that can cause a kernel panic. Such as bad third party drivers. Bad ram. Bad hardware. An incorrect install (such as pulling the plug with no battery or installing a fat 10.4 on a PPC because it seems “cool”). Hell, one of the most common reasons I’ve seen is people with bad USB hardware. They’ll have some cheap buggy USB speakers connected to a bad, unpowered USB hub. This is asking for a kernel panic. Or previous versions of Mac OS X may have accepted bad hardware by chance and allowed them to potentially corrupt data while the new versions of Mac OS X immediately call panic() when they see the bad hardware.

    A great example is when Microsoft first announced Windows supported FireWire. Expect it really didn’t. It supported FireWire hardware from *one* vendor ID and refused to look at anything else. So all the other third party manufacturers (IHVs) pretended their FW hardware was also from that one vendor so Windows would load it. Because there was no way to uniquely identify this FW hardware from one IHV to another, there was no way to make software workarounds for hardware bugs. This led to a mass of buggy hardware that was poorly tested. When connecting some of these devices to a Mac, which actually supported FireWire, the system would immediately kernel panic due to buggy hardware.

    Yes, I just blamed your kernel panic on Microsoft.

  20. Robert, did the 10.4.11 update completely kill your machine? Or have you been able to backtrack to your previous install using a bootable backup from a tool like SuperDuper or something?

    I haven’t run into the same kind of problem in my years of using Mac OS X, but I am paranoid that something like this will happen to me sometime. So I make nightly backups that would allow me to completely replace my system if it stopped working tomorrow.

    Meanwhile, Apple has definitely dropped the ball by not working harder to fix these issues when people bring them to their attention. Especially when those people are prolific bloggers…

  21. Robert, did the 10.4.11 update completely kill your machine? Or have you been able to backtrack to your previous install using a bootable backup from a tool like SuperDuper or something?

    I haven’t run into the same kind of problem in my years of using Mac OS X, but I am paranoid that something like this will happen to me sometime. So I make nightly backups that would allow me to completely replace my system if it stopped working tomorrow.

    Meanwhile, Apple has definitely dropped the ball by not working harder to fix these issues when people bring them to their attention. Especially when those people are prolific bloggers…

  22. I had the same problem as Robert. As I recall, I booted from the disk and ran disk utility. Or maybe it was Disk Warrior. In any case, that solved it.

    Think back a few years… if you were on OS9, you were wrestling with extension conflicts. If you were on a PC, you were dealing viruses, frequent crashes, conflicts. Both platforms have come a long way, but we’re not totally frictionless yet.

    You complain that Apple advertises itself as better than PC for ease of use. Well, OSX is better, it’s just not perfect. I know now that I have Leopard installed and I don’t even have to worry about back-up anymore, my total maintenance time for my system will probably be a couple of hours per year. Not so long ago it was probably an hour a week.

  23. I had the same problem as Robert. As I recall, I booted from the disk and ran disk utility. Or maybe it was Disk Warrior. In any case, that solved it.

    Think back a few years… if you were on OS9, you were wrestling with extension conflicts. If you were on a PC, you were dealing viruses, frequent crashes, conflicts. Both platforms have come a long way, but we’re not totally frictionless yet.

    You complain that Apple advertises itself as better than PC for ease of use. Well, OSX is better, it’s just not perfect. I know now that I have Leopard installed and I don’t even have to worry about back-up anymore, my total maintenance time for my system will probably be a couple of hours per year. Not so long ago it was probably an hour a week.

  24. Actually, Rosyna’s company, Unsanity, is responsible for most software problems on the Mac. Unsanity tampers with the System kernel, which is against Apple’s rules for third-party developers. Most problems upgrading to Leopard, including the so-called blue screen, have been caused by Unsanity installations that use APE (Application Enhancer). Other APE culprits are Audio Hijack and Logitech Mouse software. I would urge anyone using those products or anything from Unsanity to stop doing so.

  25. Actually, Rosyna’s company, Unsanity, is responsible for most software problems on the Mac. Unsanity tampers with the System kernel, which is against Apple’s rules for third-party developers. Most problems upgrading to Leopard, including the so-called blue screen, have been caused by Unsanity installations that use APE (Application Enhancer). Other APE culprits are Audio Hijack and Logitech Mouse software. I would urge anyone using those products or anything from Unsanity to stop doing so.

  26. Sure, if it means you don’t have to blame apple and apple is innocent in all this, blame us.

    Taking one for the team; We’re used to it.

  27. Sure, if it means you don’t have to blame apple and apple is innocent in all this, blame us.

    Taking one for the team; We’re used to it.

  28. ordinal erased and restored? Why did he not archive and install – which would have cost him an hour at most?

  29. ordinal erased and restored? Why did he not archive and install – which would have cost him an hour at most?

  30. Not that I am justifying the failure of the software to update properly, but it does seem rather like you are extrapolating from a very small vocal minority and giving the impression that this is exceptionally widespread.

    Quick question though – how many people having problems are using APE (the cause of the Leopard failures) either directly or because Logictech (in their not so infinite wisdom) decided to ship it with their drivers?

  31. Not that I am justifying the failure of the software to update properly, but it does seem rather like you are extrapolating from a very small vocal minority and giving the impression that this is exceptionally widespread.

    Quick question though – how many people having problems are using APE (the cause of the Leopard failures) either directly or because Logictech (in their not so infinite wisdom) decided to ship it with their drivers?

  32. Yes, we get it. Some people has problems with OS X and/or their Macintosh computers, whereas you have no problems with your Vaio. It might be a risky proposition, but I bet you that some Vaio owners have problems with their systems.

  33. Yes, we get it. Some people has problems with OS X and/or their Macintosh computers, whereas you have no problems with your Vaio. It might be a risky proposition, but I bet you that some Vaio owners have problems with their systems.

  34. I think its pretty stupid how before the update you were all “I love Apple”, and now its “Screw you”… reinstall tiger! go back to windows! I dont care!!

  35. I think its pretty stupid how before the update you were all “I love Apple”, and now its “Screw you”… reinstall tiger! go back to windows! I dont care!!

  36. I have to agree here with scoble, something weird is going on.

    If vista fails, usually other people react like: sure vista sucks, everybody knows. Or, microsoft is a bad company, or something similar.

    If osx fails you get one of the following reactions from other users:
    * don’t blame apple, vista also has failures
    * it’s your fault, you’re not doing it right
    * it’s not a problem, if you tell us what’s wrong, we’ll help you
    * it’s ok for an upgrade to fails, everybody knows you have to reinstall
    * don’t complain, because for most people it works (is this any different from vista/xp?)

    Why not admit it: apple makes mistakes, just like microsoft. It’s almost like steve jobs is the next saviour, and if you say anything bad about him or apple, it’s blasphemy.

  37. I have to agree here with scoble, something weird is going on.

    If vista fails, usually other people react like: sure vista sucks, everybody knows. Or, microsoft is a bad company, or something similar.

    If osx fails you get one of the following reactions from other users:
    * don’t blame apple, vista also has failures
    * it’s your fault, you’re not doing it right
    * it’s not a problem, if you tell us what’s wrong, we’ll help you
    * it’s ok for an upgrade to fails, everybody knows you have to reinstall
    * don’t complain, because for most people it works (is this any different from vista/xp?)

    Why not admit it: apple makes mistakes, just like microsoft. It’s almost like steve jobs is the next saviour, and if you say anything bad about him or apple, it’s blasphemy.

  38. “it’s your fault, you’re not doing it right”

    This is the most common response of fanboys, Apple ones included. I saw someone complain about Spotlight on slashdot after they upgraded to Tiger, because it was slow and seemed to bog the system down. Immediately someone responded saying their ‘must be something wrong with their setup’ because it worked fine on their machine.

    No allowance of the fact that Spotlight might have some bugs, or interacts with with some software badly, or that the guy had just installed OS X and it didn’t work right from the get-go – it was the user’s fault, unequivocally.

    It’s always ironic when applied to Macs which are claimed to ‘just work’, that when they don’t, the immediate assumption is that the user screwed something up. Surely the user shouldn’t be able to screw up an OS? :-)

    (I use OSX and XP, fwiw)

  39. #13, I think the point here is that Apple markets their products as being bullet-proof, and that’s just not true. Not because the products are bad, but because NO computer is 100% trouble-free.

    If you use a computer long enough, sooner or later you’re going to have problems. Doesn’t matter whether it’s Mac or Windows. Any Mac user who says they’ve NEVER had a problem is either lying or hasn’t been using a Mac for very long or doing much with it.

    And FWIW, I too had problems with the 10.4.11 upgrade. It didn’t “kill” my Mac…but it wasn’t feeling well for 1/2 a day (like Robert, wouldn’t start up afterwards).

  40. “it’s your fault, you’re not doing it right”

    This is the most common response of fanboys, Apple ones included. I saw someone complain about Spotlight on slashdot after they upgraded to Tiger, because it was slow and seemed to bog the system down. Immediately someone responded saying their ‘must be something wrong with their setup’ because it worked fine on their machine.

    No allowance of the fact that Spotlight might have some bugs, or interacts with with some software badly, or that the guy had just installed OS X and it didn’t work right from the get-go – it was the user’s fault, unequivocally.

    It’s always ironic when applied to Macs which are claimed to ‘just work’, that when they don’t, the immediate assumption is that the user screwed something up. Surely the user shouldn’t be able to screw up an OS? :-)

    (I use OSX and XP, fwiw)

  41. #13, I think the point here is that Apple markets their products as being bullet-proof, and that’s just not true. Not because the products are bad, but because NO computer is 100% trouble-free.

    If you use a computer long enough, sooner or later you’re going to have problems. Doesn’t matter whether it’s Mac or Windows. Any Mac user who says they’ve NEVER had a problem is either lying or hasn’t been using a Mac for very long or doing much with it.

    And FWIW, I too had problems with the 10.4.11 upgrade. It didn’t “kill” my Mac…but it wasn’t feeling well for 1/2 a day (like Robert, wouldn’t start up afterwards).

  42. Since updating to 10.5.1 yesterday, my wireless in my MacBook gains and loses signal (goes from 0 to full signal) in rapid fire succession from time to time. I even get banned from AIM because it says I’m disconnecting and reconnecting too quick.

  43. Since updating to 10.5.1 yesterday, my wireless in my MacBook gains and loses signal (goes from 0 to full signal) in rapid fire succession from time to time. I even get banned from AIM because it says I’m disconnecting and reconnecting too quick.

  44. After I installed 10.4.11 on my iMac, the restart didn’t work (got stuck on a white screen with a spinning circle. I held down the button for 10 seconds to shut it down and again and restarted and it works fine.

  45. After I installed 10.4.11 on my iMac, the restart didn’t work (got stuck on a white screen with a spinning circle. I held down the button for 10 seconds to shut it down and again and restarted and it works fine.

  46. #23 – I don’t think I have ever heard apple market themselves as bullet-proof, just ‘better than the competition’, which in my opinion is true. I guess that opinions are subjective though!

  47. #23 – I don’t think I have ever heard apple market themselves as bullet-proof, just ‘better than the competition’, which in my opinion is true. I guess that opinions are subjective though!

  48. > I have to agree here with scoble, something weird is going on.

    Then one day you wake up and you realize that Chomsky was right, there really ISN’T that much difference between Democrats and Republicans, or between Coke and Pepsi for that matter.

    Here is what Oscar Wilde said about absinthe: “After the first glass you see things as you wish they were. After the second, you see things as they are not. Finally, you see things as they really are, and that is the most horrible thing in the world.”

    When you wake up on that dread morning and you see “things as they really are,” that it doesn’t matter which party gets your vote, that “Wild” Cherry Pepsi tastes like Cherry Coke, that your Mac is really no more reliable than a PC, “that is the most horrible thing in the world.” LOL

    It is at that point many people switch from absinthe to Kool-Aid.

  49. > I have to agree here with scoble, something weird is going on.

    Then one day you wake up and you realize that Chomsky was right, there really ISN’T that much difference between Democrats and Republicans, or between Coke and Pepsi for that matter.

    Here is what Oscar Wilde said about absinthe: “After the first glass you see things as you wish they were. After the second, you see things as they are not. Finally, you see things as they really are, and that is the most horrible thing in the world.”

    When you wake up on that dread morning and you see “things as they really are,” that it doesn’t matter which party gets your vote, that “Wild” Cherry Pepsi tastes like Cherry Coke, that your Mac is really no more reliable than a PC, “that is the most horrible thing in the world.” LOL

    It is at that point many people switch from absinthe to Kool-Aid.

  50. @23 “I think the point here is that Apple markets their products as being bullet-proof,”

    They do no such thing. If they did they would be hauled in front of the FTC. Apple markets their products as an alternative to Windows and suggest that the user experience will be better and the product easier to use than a WinTel product. They aren’t just marketing against Microsoft, they are marketing against PC’s. NO WHERE in their ads to they specifically say their product will never fail, they are bullet proof and they you will never have hardware problems. They fact that naive people (Scoble) may draw the conclusion that the product will never fail are the same type of people that are convinced the US went to Iraq to retaliate for 9/11.

  51. @23 “I think the point here is that Apple markets their products as being bullet-proof,”

    They do no such thing. If they did they would be hauled in front of the FTC. Apple markets their products as an alternative to Windows and suggest that the user experience will be better and the product easier to use than a WinTel product. They aren’t just marketing against Microsoft, they are marketing against PC’s. NO WHERE in their ads to they specifically say their product will never fail, they are bullet proof and they you will never have hardware problems. They fact that naive people (Scoble) may draw the conclusion that the product will never fail are the same type of people that are convinced the US went to Iraq to retaliate for 9/11.

  52. > Actually, Rosyna’s company, Unsanity, is
    > responsible for most software problems on the Mac

    Rosnya’s comment reminded me of that Indiana Jones scene where the huge bad guy with the turban comes out and starts whipping around a scimitar…

    …and Podesta’s comment reminded me of when Indiana Jones just pulled out his gun and shot him.

  53. > Actually, Rosyna’s company, Unsanity, is
    > responsible for most software problems on the Mac

    Rosnya’s comment reminded me of that Indiana Jones scene where the huge bad guy with the turban comes out and starts whipping around a scimitar…

    …and Podesta’s comment reminded me of when Indiana Jones just pulled out his gun and shot him.

  54. @36

    Apple’s use of 10-year old BSOD icons to display Windows network computers (yet not using 10-year old System Bomb icons to repersent Macs (and 10 years ago, System Bombs were much more frequent than BSODs)) certainly *implies* that Macs are perfect. Even if it doesn’t imply that (which it does), such an act of sheer hubris makes them a big and justifiable target for a huge amount of bashing whenever anything goes wrong. It’s called, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Apple casts huge boulders, so they’ll be called on not being sinless themselves, and rightly so.

    And you simply cannot, with a straight face, maintain that there is no double standard, as was stated by Andrej (post 28, as I write this).

  55. @36

    Apple’s use of 10-year old BSOD icons to display Windows network computers (yet not using 10-year old System Bomb icons to repersent Macs (and 10 years ago, System Bombs were much more frequent than BSODs)) certainly *implies* that Macs are perfect. Even if it doesn’t imply that (which it does), such an act of sheer hubris makes them a big and justifiable target for a huge amount of bashing whenever anything goes wrong. It’s called, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Apple casts huge boulders, so they’ll be called on not being sinless themselves, and rightly so.

    And you simply cannot, with a straight face, maintain that there is no double standard, as was stated by Andrej (post 28, as I write this).

  56. Newbies make the switch (another OS) thinking their days of crashes are over. Disillusion sets in when they discover they need to do a bit of troubleshooting themselves. A bit of effort is all it takes, and ANYTHING can be solved on open source OS/apps (to a lesser extent, MAC OS). I prefer having a trillion developers working on fixes in the netiverse, rather than being exclusively dependent on closed source people (at Apple) to do it. Amsuing. These comments look like a Linux newbie forum where the newbies eventually get ignored until they realsie how silly they were to overlook a simple solution. “Seek or knock, and the solution will find the door itself”;-)

  57. Newbies make the switch (another OS) thinking their days of crashes are over. Disillusion sets in when they discover they need to do a bit of troubleshooting themselves. A bit of effort is all it takes, and ANYTHING can be solved on open source OS/apps (to a lesser extent, MAC OS). I prefer having a trillion developers working on fixes in the netiverse, rather than being exclusively dependent on closed source people (at Apple) to do it. Amsuing. These comments look like a Linux newbie forum where the newbies eventually get ignored until they realsie how silly they were to overlook a simple solution. “Seek or knock, and the solution will find the door itself”;-)

  58. @10: ‘Disaster’ is a little bit of an overstatement.

    @13: After all the shit the fanboys gave him for his first post about problems, he’s definitely allowed to defend himself and provide evidence that he’s not the only one with issues.

    My advice: Ubuntu. It’s definitely not made for idiots, but it never claims to be, at least do the 30-day trial, and have it on a separate machine so you can test it out.

    (Wow I sound like a fanboy too. Aren’t OS wars fun?)

    @16: First of all, your first two paragraphs are not very useful in this context, because in Robert’s original post (http://scobleizer.com/2007/11/16/caught-in-apple-restart-hell/), he was very descriptive about his problem: he loaded the update, and now his computer won’t start up. The next part of your comment describes how to diagnose his problem. While this is very good, you’re just further proving Robert’s point that Macs are idiot proof. I can’t imagine any of my more technologically knowledgeable friends ever having heard of a kernel panic or the kernel panic log file. And finally, #37′s (Karim) analogy was perfect.

    I’m not really sure I understand #39′s (clothier) point, but I think he might be suggesting to switch to Linux as well.

  59. @10: ‘Disaster’ is a little bit of an overstatement.

    @13: After all the shit the fanboys gave him for his first post about problems, he’s definitely allowed to defend himself and provide evidence that he’s not the only one with issues.

    My advice: Ubuntu. It’s definitely not made for idiots, but it never claims to be, at least do the 30-day trial, and have it on a separate machine so you can test it out.

    (Wow I sound like a fanboy too. Aren’t OS wars fun?)

    @16: First of all, your first two paragraphs are not very useful in this context, because in Robert’s original post (http://scobleizer.com/2007/11/16/caught-in-apple-restart-hell/), he was very descriptive about his problem: he loaded the update, and now his computer won’t start up. The next part of your comment describes how to diagnose his problem. While this is very good, you’re just further proving Robert’s point that Macs are idiot proof. I can’t imagine any of my more technologically knowledgeable friends ever having heard of a kernel panic or the kernel panic log file. And finally, #37′s (Karim) analogy was perfect.

    I’m not really sure I understand #39′s (clothier) point, but I think he might be suggesting to switch to Linux as well.

  60. [...] Twitter reactions to Apple’s OS update Lest you think I’m the only one having problems: JesseStay: the 10.4.11 update killed my Mac too. Windley (he’s the former CTO for the state of Utah): “the 10.4.11 update killed my Mac too. :-(” Hey, Phil, can’t you pick a different line than Jesse? Heheh. ordinal: Killed my Powerbook too. I had to erase & install. [...]

  61. [...] Twitter reactions to Apple’s OS update Lest you think I’m the only one having problems: JesseStay: the 10.4.11 update killed my Mac too. Windley (he’s the former CTO for the state of Utah): “the 10.4.11 update killed my Mac too. :-(” Hey, Phil, can’t you pick a different line than Jesse? Heheh. ordinal: Killed my Powerbook too. I had to erase & install. [...]

  62. @38 Maybe they do imply. But it appears many are making the mistake of inferring something, based on their advertising, that is not reflective of reality.

    I’m not sure you understand the strategy behind advertising. Why in the world would Apple use System Bombs in their own advertising? I don’t ever recall a Microsoft ad using BSOD’s to advertise their products. Not quite sure the point you are trying to make. To reiterate, no where in Apple’s advertising do they state that their products are infallible and users will never have problems.

    Heck, Honda used to “imply” that their cars were much more reliable than US built cars. Should Honda owners have been outraged when they had to take their cars in for warranty work or unscheduled repairs?

    The reaction by Apple owners when their products are criticized is not really relevant to Scoble’s overall argument that Apple ads state their product never fail.

  63. @38 Maybe they do imply. But it appears many are making the mistake of inferring something, based on their advertising, that is not reflective of reality.

    I’m not sure you understand the strategy behind advertising. Why in the world would Apple use System Bombs in their own advertising? I don’t ever recall a Microsoft ad using BSOD’s to advertise their products. Not quite sure the point you are trying to make. To reiterate, no where in Apple’s advertising do they state that their products are infallible and users will never have problems.

    Heck, Honda used to “imply” that their cars were much more reliable than US built cars. Should Honda owners have been outraged when they had to take their cars in for warranty work or unscheduled repairs?

    The reaction by Apple owners when their products are criticized is not really relevant to Scoble’s overall argument that Apple ads state their product never fail.

  64. Karim, we all need to ‘shoot’ Rosyna. He goes all over the Web posting comments trying to mislead people about why they have problems when APE-based software is installed. Would have folks believe their problems are caused by Apple, Microsoft or Mother Nature. It is APE, which Unsanity is the primary proponent of, that is the culprit. Rosyna is too irresponsible to wake up to reality and rewrite Unsanity software not to require APE. If that cannot be done, it is time to start writing programs that are APE-free, period. Like many former Unsanity customers, I have voted with my feet, despite still having valid licenses.

  65. Karim, we all need to ‘shoot’ Rosyna. He goes all over the Web posting comments trying to mislead people about why they have problems when APE-based software is installed. Would have folks believe their problems are caused by Apple, Microsoft or Mother Nature. It is APE, which Unsanity is the primary proponent of, that is the culprit. Rosyna is too irresponsible to wake up to reality and rewrite Unsanity software not to require APE. If that cannot be done, it is time to start writing programs that are APE-free, period. Like many former Unsanity customers, I have voted with my feet, despite still having valid licenses.

  66. “I’m not sure you understand the strategy behind advertising. Why in the world would Apple use System Bombs in their own advertising? I don’t ever recall a Microsoft ad using BSOD’s to advertise their products.”

    MS never used BSODs to “advertise” their product, but then again, they never used Mac System Bomb screens to advertise Windows either. Microsoft doesn’t spend dozens of minutes at their dev conferences trashing Apple. Jobs is about such childishness, but MS isn’t.

    The point was that System Bombs happened much more often on Macs 10 years ago than did BSODs on Win9x. Apple’s childish use of the BSOD icon implies otherwise (and a lie by implication is still a lie). And any criticism Apple gets is well deserved by such antics. They bring it on themselves so if you want to blame someone because you think Apple is being criticized unfairly, blame Jobs.

  67. “I’m not sure you understand the strategy behind advertising. Why in the world would Apple use System Bombs in their own advertising? I don’t ever recall a Microsoft ad using BSOD’s to advertise their products.”

    MS never used BSODs to “advertise” their product, but then again, they never used Mac System Bomb screens to advertise Windows either. Microsoft doesn’t spend dozens of minutes at their dev conferences trashing Apple. Jobs is about such childishness, but MS isn’t.

    The point was that System Bombs happened much more often on Macs 10 years ago than did BSODs on Win9x. Apple’s childish use of the BSOD icon implies otherwise (and a lie by implication is still a lie). And any criticism Apple gets is well deserved by such antics. They bring it on themselves so if you want to blame someone because you think Apple is being criticized unfairly, blame Jobs.

  68. FWIW, and hopefully this helps someone, I’m experiencing the boot-crash problem after installing the 10.4.11 upgrade as well; after tiring of this and booting into single-user-mode to see what was going on, I found the following interesting tidbit repeated frequently in the logs:

    “Login.app respawning too fast”

    Now this suggests to me (though I freely admit to not developing binaries for Mac OS) that there may be a problem with one of the libraries Login.app is linked against that may have been upgraded (while Login.app was not?). Hopefully, someone more versed with the software architecture of the OSX gui can take this, run with it, and find the fix….

  69. FWIW, and hopefully this helps someone, I’m experiencing the boot-crash problem after installing the 10.4.11 upgrade as well; after tiring of this and booting into single-user-mode to see what was going on, I found the following interesting tidbit repeated frequently in the logs:

    “Login.app respawning too fast”

    Now this suggests to me (though I freely admit to not developing binaries for Mac OS) that there may be a problem with one of the libraries Login.app is linked against that may have been upgraded (while Login.app was not?). Hopefully, someone more versed with the software architecture of the OSX gui can take this, run with it, and find the fix….

  70. I have “killed my mac” problems on my G4 (1gz)powerbook:
    The apps I’m commonly using are: mail 2.1, safari 3.0.4, azureus v3406. I have had
    1. the clock freeze on 2 occasions and some of the items disappear from that bar – time connected,and other icons.
    2. finder repeatedly crashing trying to look at finder windows. after a restart.
    3. some webpage I loaded wiped out the tabs (several opened) so couldn’t clik on the close button for any tab (killed with apple-W)
    4. Finder doesn’t show all firewire disks (one occurence)
    5. One grey screen
    6. Misc safari problems.

    Safari has never been very reliable – freezes or dies – but I’ve never had the finder issues before.

  71. I have “killed my mac” problems on my G4 (1gz)powerbook:
    The apps I’m commonly using are: mail 2.1, safari 3.0.4, azureus v3406. I have had
    1. the clock freeze on 2 occasions and some of the items disappear from that bar – time connected,and other icons.
    2. finder repeatedly crashing trying to look at finder windows. after a restart.
    3. some webpage I loaded wiped out the tabs (several opened) so couldn’t clik on the close button for any tab (killed with apple-W)
    4. Finder doesn’t show all firewire disks (one occurence)
    5. One grey screen
    6. Misc safari problems.

    Safari has never been very reliable – freezes or dies – but I’ve never had the finder issues before.

  72. 10.4.11 put my system in a coma. Blue screen frozen progress bar.
    I went through all of the steps, restarting 3x Rebuild desk top zap prams,
    The only thing that I could open was the console. I was able to fire wire to my other Computer in target mode and save most of my information and files.
    I did a clean install and the upgrade to 10.4.11 again. I have not loaded any of my large programs like adobe suite. I am keeping my system lean. It is operating very sluggishly and freezes and crashes a lot just running Safari or firefox or Thunderbird. It really stinks.

  73. 10.4.11 put my system in a coma. Blue screen frozen progress bar.
    I went through all of the steps, restarting 3x Rebuild desk top zap prams,
    The only thing that I could open was the console. I was able to fire wire to my other Computer in target mode and save most of my information and files.
    I did a clean install and the upgrade to 10.4.11 again. I have not loaded any of my large programs like adobe suite. I am keeping my system lean. It is operating very sluggishly and freezes and crashes a lot just running Safari or firefox or Thunderbird. It really stinks.

  74. Lots of food for thought here but the funniest comment is Rosnya’s “taking one for the team: we’re used to it” line. Now I’m an Unsanity customer and like their stuff and also had a fully updated version of APE so missed out on the BSOD but forgive me for not buying the martyr position from a company that hides the way they do. No updates or information on 10.5 compatibility, no responses to customer comments/requests unless you get lucky and the freedom to post anywhere and any time without having to face the music is not exactly painful. I’m another person voting with my feet when it comes to their products but have to admit to being totally irked by the company and in the developers.

  75. Lots of food for thought here but the funniest comment is Rosnya’s “taking one for the team: we’re used to it” line. Now I’m an Unsanity customer and like their stuff and also had a fully updated version of APE so missed out on the BSOD but forgive me for not buying the martyr position from a company that hides the way they do. No updates or information on 10.5 compatibility, no responses to customer comments/requests unless you get lucky and the freedom to post anywhere and any time without having to face the music is not exactly painful. I’m another person voting with my feet when it comes to their products but have to admit to being totally irked by the company and in the developers.