Louis Gray, who is now my favorite blogger who covers what’s happening in the social media space, writes a blog post about how bloggers are getting worried about the fracturing of their comments. It is currently on the top of TechMeme, and since today’s Saturday, that must mean it’s the bitchmeme of the week.
Anyway, I am seeing this trend big time. Over on FriendFeed I’m seeing better comments than I see on most blogs (and more quantity too).
The era when bloggers could control where the discussion of their stuff took place is totally over.
This is a trend that the best bloggers should embrace. Me? I follow wherever the conversation takes me.
As someone else wrote: steal my content please.
As a counterpoint, Tony Hung tells us all to NOT steal his content. Me? I’ve found that by being open with my content a lot of good has come back to me, so I’m with Louis on this one.
Bloggers, pick your sides! Who you with? Louis? Or Tony?
Robert, see my comment on Twitter…
I agree with Rachel.
If content and comments are shared for conversational purposes, that’s okay by me, but if someone is profiting from my writing (and I don’t have ads on my own blog so I am not profiting), I’m not so okay with that.
I do believe what we share comes back to us very often in all sorts of ways, but I do consider that what I write falls more in the category of “mine”–maybe I need to put a CC license on the blog to indicate no derivatives
I’m an educator, so just to think outside the commercial box for a minute–what happens with student blogs. Is it okay for them to get sucked into these sites? We want them to be able to be part of the global web and to have readers and to become skilled communicators, but on the other hand, is it all right for their writing to be commercialized, or used by for-profit sites?
And is it any different than if they are using Flickr to share their photos? Would they see it differently because they’re used to sharing on Facebook, etc?
Just some questions I’m thinking about as I read through the comments.
I agree with Rachel.
If content and comments are shared for conversational purposes, that’s okay by me, but if someone is profiting from my writing (and I don’t have ads on my own blog so I am not profiting), I’m not so okay with that.
I do believe what we share comes back to us very often in all sorts of ways, but I do consider that what I write falls more in the category of “mine”–maybe I need to put a CC license on the blog to indicate no derivatives
I’m an educator, so just to think outside the commercial box for a minute–what happens with student blogs. Is it okay for them to get sucked into these sites? We want them to be able to be part of the global web and to have readers and to become skilled communicators, but on the other hand, is it all right for their writing to be commercialized, or used by for-profit sites?
And is it any different than if they are using Flickr to share their photos? Would they see it differently because they’re used to sharing on Facebook, etc?
Just some questions I’m thinking about as I read through the comments.
@Kevin Gamble
LMAO – but accurate
@Kevin Gamble
LMAO – but accurate
[...] about Techmeme, technorati, and other aggregation sites, complaints and whines about Shyftr, and taking either side, pro or against, frankly anything that gets people off their compliant butt is fine with [...]
The problem I have is that there’s no ability to archive and retain.
Lets face it. 9/10 companies in this space, like most of Web 2.0 will disappear in the not too distant future. It’s just part of tech. We saw it in 1.0 as well. The problem is when they disappear, so does their data.
I love the fact that I can quickly link to a blog post from 4 years ago and all the comments are still there, and intact. I’d hate to loose that.
Web 2.0 is unfortunately modeled around data entrapment. What sucks is when the VC’s decide to pull out, lots of great data disappears forever. That sucks.
The problem I have is that there’s no ability to archive and retain.
Lets face it. 9/10 companies in this space, like most of Web 2.0 will disappear in the not too distant future. It’s just part of tech. We saw it in 1.0 as well. The problem is when they disappear, so does their data.
I love the fact that I can quickly link to a blog post from 4 years ago and all the comments are still there, and intact. I’d hate to loose that.
Web 2.0 is unfortunately modeled around data entrapment. What sucks is when the VC’s decide to pull out, lots of great data disappears forever. That sucks.
[...] the conversation by getting riled up over Shyftr, Louis Gray pushed the meme forward, and then Scoble said bloggers have lost control. Numerous others had their say [...]
[...] Era of Blogger’s Control is Over – Robert Scoble Fine, I’ll Say It: Shyftr Crosses the Line – Tony Hung Should Fractured Feed Reader Comments Raise Blog Owners’ Ire? – Louis Gray [...]
[...] attempts to build a business around someone else’s content — while some, including Robert Scoble and the blogger who calls himself Chartreuse, have said that these criticisms are off base and that [...]
We new media types love to tell the old media how much they aren’t in control anymore. This is a dynamic medium. User generated content, mashups, ect. Why should we expect any less for our own content. But it’s getting a little crazy out there. In some ways, Friend Feed is an aggregator of aggregation. Co Comment is the nearest I have seen thus far to keep track of all the different places comments can happen in.
We new media types love to tell the old media how much they aren’t in control anymore. This is a dynamic medium. User generated content, mashups, ect. Why should we expect any less for our own content. But it’s getting a little crazy out there. In some ways, Friend Feed is an aggregator of aggregation. Co Comment is the nearest I have seen thus far to keep track of all the different places comments can happen in.
[...] Era of blogger’s control is over (Robert Scoble)- Should Comments be Portable? (Valeria Maltoni)- Forget Disintermediation, Focus On [...]
[...] it went too far in its handling of content culled from feeds across the Web, while others, like Robert Scoble and Louis Gray, had more favorable views of the [...]
[...] move obviates my own qualms against Shyftr, which many bloggers seemed to have mistaken for qualms against controlling conversations, which is something I [...]
Wow, anyone heard of creative commons, copyright. If you have the drive to make money off your own copyrighted material, you should put some of it away to protect it. Thats what lawyers are for.
If anyone has ever encountered the digg effect you can obviously see the benefits of people promoting your material and commenting on it, without them even copying your material. These communities communicate within themselves (thats what makes them communities) and nothing you do will be able to stop that. It’s the social aspect of web2.0.
Instead of maintaining a totalitarian grip of your material, think of how if shared it may be the basis for material tomorrow. Oh, I’m sorry you can’t make a buck off that, is that the problem? That you can’t get a cut of people making money off your money?
As far as I have ever seen it, greed stifles innovation, yet never the other way around.
Wow, anyone heard of creative commons, copyright. If you have the drive to make money off your own copyrighted material, you should put some of it away to protect it. Thats what lawyers are for.
If anyone has ever encountered the digg effect you can obviously see the benefits of people promoting your material and commenting on it, without them even copying your material. These communities communicate within themselves (thats what makes them communities) and nothing you do will be able to stop that. It’s the social aspect of web2.0.
Instead of maintaining a totalitarian grip of your material, think of how if shared it may be the basis for material tomorrow. Oh, I’m sorry you can’t make a buck off that, is that the problem? That you can’t get a cut of people making money off your money?
As far as I have ever seen it, greed stifles innovation, yet never the other way around.
FriendFeed should automatically send trackbacks. Bloggers can chose whether/which to display. This is better for everyone.
1. Easier to comment within the tool you are in.
2. Better and more comments.
3. Bloggers can keep up with the conversation they started.
4. FriendFeed gets more attention.
5. Easy to set-up using existing tech.
Come to think of it we need this built into RSS readers and twitter.
FriendFeed should automatically send trackbacks. Bloggers can chose whether/which to display. This is better for everyone.
1. Easier to comment within the tool you are in.
2. Better and more comments.
3. Bloggers can keep up with the conversation they started.
4. FriendFeed gets more attention.
5. Easy to set-up using existing tech.
Come to think of it we need this built into RSS readers and twitter.
[...] their company or all the channels that carry their message. Bloggers realized the era of blogger’s control is over this weekend. It is funny that this was a realization this weekend. This loss of control [...]
I’m all for content sharing and conversations everywhere! The web should be free and content should be free, that’s my whole take on things.
I write alot of unique content and I create alot of code samples that I’m happy for people to take and use.
I’m all for content sharing and conversations everywhere! The web should be free and content should be free, that’s my whole take on things.
I write alot of unique content and I create alot of code samples that I’m happy for people to take and use.
I find this pretty reprehensible, Robert. It’s easy for you to yammer on about following the conversation blah blah, but blogging is something you just do on top of what you get paid for, which is doing video interviews, finding out stuff about technology, etc. It’s a kind of running note-taking, the icing on the cake. So the more you personally can exploit all this virally-spreading stuff, the more your brand is spread to sell your value at your paid job.
What’s destructive for another works for you, so you’re willing to bless it.
For someone who has advertising on their blog, however, or who looks to measure traffic to somehow establish themselves as an authority in their field or community, these aggregator sites are unjust. They don’t just link and discuss, they draw traffic away from the original place where the discussion can be the most coherent, where there is already a regular community of commentators.
This is a lot like the Copybot problem of Second Life. Tekkies sneer at us that it’s technically impossible to stop “if your client has to see it then it can be copied” (although of course it is stopped in places like World of Warcraft of There.com) and don’t bestir themselves to worry about how people can go on making content if their product is snatched out of their hands like this. It’s one thing if my work is being commented on a site that does not make money with ads, or is linked, but if it is reprinted in full without revenue-sharing with me, and sells that content to sell its ad, that’s unethical.
Tony Curzon Price on opendemocracy.net summarized this problem very beautifully in talking about “the community of content” and how he used the CC license to encourage non-commercial use of content, but to get commercial users to pay.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/media_net/people_copyright/reinvention_scarcity
The site yolto.com particularly earned my wrath because they sold ads for game cards and other products by grabbing the full text of my blog and everyone else’s, then “digesting” them and placing them with what they felt was similar content, then putting a discussion around it — which in fact they themselvse faked by going around goosing it on blogs and writing it in themselves.
Half the time when you see “discussions” on aggregator sites, can you be sure these are genuine people who came there to make a comment, or flaks from that social media company trying to drive traffic and create the appearance of activity?!
Basically, what you are saying, is that Big Important IT Guys and Social Media Mavens like yourself get to exploit the exploitability of everybody else for their own advantage, and I’m sorry, that rots.
I find this pretty reprehensible, Robert. It’s easy for you to yammer on about following the conversation blah blah, but blogging is something you just do on top of what you get paid for, which is doing video interviews, finding out stuff about technology, etc. It’s a kind of running note-taking, the icing on the cake. So the more you personally can exploit all this virally-spreading stuff, the more your brand is spread to sell your value at your paid job.
What’s destructive for another works for you, so you’re willing to bless it.
For someone who has advertising on their blog, however, or who looks to measure traffic to somehow establish themselves as an authority in their field or community, these aggregator sites are unjust. They don’t just link and discuss, they draw traffic away from the original place where the discussion can be the most coherent, where there is already a regular community of commentators.
This is a lot like the Copybot problem of Second Life. Tekkies sneer at us that it’s technically impossible to stop “if your client has to see it then it can be copied” (although of course it is stopped in places like World of Warcraft of There.com) and don’t bestir themselves to worry about how people can go on making content if their product is snatched out of their hands like this. It’s one thing if my work is being commented on a site that does not make money with ads, or is linked, but if it is reprinted in full without revenue-sharing with me, and sells that content to sell its ad, that’s unethical.
Tony Curzon Price on opendemocracy.net summarized this problem very beautifully in talking about “the community of content” and how he used the CC license to encourage non-commercial use of content, but to get commercial users to pay.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/media_net/people_copyright/reinvention_scarcity
The site yolto.com particularly earned my wrath because they sold ads for game cards and other products by grabbing the full text of my blog and everyone else’s, then “digesting” them and placing them with what they felt was similar content, then putting a discussion around it — which in fact they themselvse faked by going around goosing it on blogs and writing it in themselves.
Half the time when you see “discussions” on aggregator sites, can you be sure these are genuine people who came there to make a comment, or flaks from that social media company trying to drive traffic and create the appearance of activity?!
Basically, what you are saying, is that Big Important IT Guys and Social Media Mavens like yourself get to exploit the exploitability of everybody else for their own advantage, and I’m sorry, that rots.
jdavey, I fail to see how anyone can monetarize Twitter, unless they manage to get a third-party site widget that has advertising or VC backing that will also pay writers. Um, can you point to such a successful model?!
gregory, that’s not progress, because no one has the attention to pay in the attention economy to all that everythingness
Sol Young, go evolve yourself dude. Do you have some other way to pay your salary besides blogging? I personally blog for intellectual interest, not as a paid activity, but I sympathize with those trying to sell ads or trying to build up expertise reputations. I don’t see why they should embrace a site like yolto.com that sells ads against their content, away from their site, never driving any content back to their site. Why would any reader go back to a site when they have the full article and the discussion in front of them?
jdavey, I fail to see how anyone can monetarize Twitter, unless they manage to get a third-party site widget that has advertising or VC backing that will also pay writers. Um, can you point to such a successful model?!
gregory, that’s not progress, because no one has the attention to pay in the attention economy to all that everythingness
Sol Young, go evolve yourself dude. Do you have some other way to pay your salary besides blogging? I personally blog for intellectual interest, not as a paid activity, but I sympathize with those trying to sell ads or trying to build up expertise reputations. I don’t see why they should embrace a site like yolto.com that sells ads against their content, away from their site, never driving any content back to their site. Why would any reader go back to a site when they have the full article and the discussion in front of them?
[...] Scoble Factor: The preeminent blogger of our time, Robert Scoble, weighs in with the post, Era of blogger’s control is over. He’s gung-ho about Shyftr and all ways by which his content is distro’d. Now based on [...]
[...] nur in den Kommentaren seines Blogs stattfinden dürften. Entsprechend gelassen zeigt sich auch Robert Scoble (Scobleizer), dem es egal ist, wo und wie über seine Themen diskutiert wird: “Steal my [...]
Traditional media has attempted to controll and contain their messages through distribution channels they control.
The opposite philosophy is what makes the social web social. Please steal my thoughts and distribute them and if my thoughts and ideas add value then it will attract others and get distributed by the people and for the people.
Traditional media has attempted to controll and contain their messages through distribution channels they control.
The opposite philosophy is what makes the social web social. Please steal my thoughts and distribute them and if my thoughts and ideas add value then it will attract others and get distributed by the people and for the people.
[...] was a bitchmeme going around. Scoble, Winer got into the [...]
[...] Issues in the Blogosphere heated up again this weekend with Robert Scoble claiming that the Era of blogger’s control is over. When I asked the question: Where Do You Leave Your Comments? I only dealt with commenting on blogs: [...]
[...] over the RSS aggregation service Shyftr and its republishing of RSS content. Some bloggers, such as Robert Scoble and Louis Gray came down in favor of the service while others, including Tony Hung and Raoul Pop [...]
Steal my content? Not worth bothering, and the time and effort to steal still costs. So even free, isn’t.
Now replace “content” with “gadgets” or “furniture” and we have a deal.
Steal my content? Not worth bothering, and the time and effort to steal still costs. So even free, isn’t.
Now replace “content” with “gadgets” or “furniture” and we have a deal.
The Splintering of Social Web Discussions…
There was some talk over the weekend about how discussions on the social web, particularly discussions on blogs, are becoming more and more splintered. Services such as FriendFeed and Shyftr allow people to post comments, which means comments on a pa…
[...] so much discussion about comment fragmentation here , here, and here (ironically there are plenty of comments on each of the original posts). But [...]
“I’ve found that by being open with my content”
Careful how you use words like “open” – after all, your blog is clearly licensed “All Rights Reserved” under the terms of the Berne Convention and the UCC
“I’ve found that by being open with my content”
Careful how you use words like “open” – after all, your blog is clearly licensed “All Rights Reserved” under the terms of the Berne Convention and the UCC
[...] Scoble stößt einmal mehr eine Diskussion über die Zukunft der Blogosphäre an. Er ist sich nämlich [...]
[...] it went too far in its handling of content culled from feeds across the Web, while others, like Robert Scoble and Louis Gray, had more favorable views of the [...]
[...] I follow scobleizer from time to time, and yesterday on this post, he linked to a post by Louis Gray in which the current trends in RSS readers are explained. What [...]
Despite the very obvious paranoia being exhibited by more than a few (on their blogs?!), sharing has way more benefits to all of them than not.
A couple of these posts already have Louis completely written off. That’s just crazy. He’s writing some of the best cutting edge commentary around?!
Understandable that the larger monetized sites are worried. They shouldn’t … and they’re probably spending too much time watching the competition, which has proven over time to be a HUGE waste of time.
Despite the very obvious paranoia being exhibited by more than a few (on their blogs?!), sharing has way more benefits to all of them than not.
A couple of these posts already have Louis completely written off. That’s just crazy. He’s writing some of the best cutting edge commentary around?!
Understandable that the larger monetized sites are worried. They shouldn’t … and they’re probably spending too much time watching the competition, which has proven over time to be a HUGE waste of time.
why are there not more approaches to allow creators/producers/bloggers/… to monetize their content even if it is popular outside their own walled garden?
why are there not more approaches to allow creators/producers/bloggers/… to monetize their content even if it is popular outside their own walled garden?
[...] tra i detrattori: Mathew Ingram e Tony Hung e quelli a favore: Louis Gray e, ovviamente, Robert Scoble. Scoble ipotizza direttamente la fine dell’era del controllo dei Blogger: non possono più [...]
[...] discussion around fractured blog comments; Robert Scoble even went so far as to say that the “era of blogger’s control” is over. What all these discussions hinged on was whether or not a web service called Shyftr [...]
[...] possibilità per gli utenti di inserire ovunque preferiscano i loro commenti, si sono schierati Scobleizer e lo stesso Gray, che si dichiarano contenti di poter partecipare a più conversazioni, altri, [...]