Adobe Flash gets a break in war against Silverlight

Interesting, this is probably why I don’t try to do news reporting anymore. I was briefed a few days ago on the Adobe/Google news, but already it’s being discussed on hundreds of blogs. There is no longer much value in being first. So off I go today to hang out at HP’s Labs to get you some intimate looks into one of the world’s biggest companies. But I digress.

Don’t miss this news. It’s significant because Google’s search engine can decide the marketplace winner between Adobe’s Flash and Microsoft’s Silverlight. You think Google (or Yahoo, for that matter) is going to be very motivated to index Silverlight content? Rrrriiiiigggghhhhttttt.

Also notice which search engine isn’t playing the Adobe game: Microsoft’s.

Silverlight might be better technology, but if it doesn’t get indexed by the two biggest search engines it’s game over.

Now you might get some insight into why Microsoft wanted to pay $46 billion to buy Yahoo. Like Ballmer said “Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers!”

Comments

  1. Robert, you do realize that “indexing Silverlight content” is just XML parsing – it’s no challenge for Google to index Silverlight content, and I’m sure they will and/or already can. After all, it’s just text …

    The reason why indexing Adobe Flash content is a “big deal” is due to their stupid file format.

    This isn’t “Adobe gets a leg up on Microsoft” news. This is “Google ensures Adobe won’t become irrelevant yet” news.

  2. Robert, you do realize that “indexing Silverlight content” is just XML parsing – it’s no challenge for Google to index Silverlight content, and I’m sure they will and/or already can. After all, it’s just text …

    The reason why indexing Adobe Flash content is a “big deal” is due to their stupid file format.

    This isn’t “Adobe gets a leg up on Microsoft” news. This is “Google ensures Adobe won’t become irrelevant yet” news.

  3. Yahoo! have some great, innovative stuff under the covers. Microsearch, Pipes, Fire Eagle, SearchMonkey er… that’s all I can think of for now. Yahoo Events is also great.

  4. Yahoo! have some great, innovative stuff under the covers. Microsearch, Pipes, Fire Eagle, SearchMonkey er… that’s all I can think of for now. Yahoo Events is also great.

  5. @Dossy, all that’s XML based about Silverlight is the graphical markup. Sure, in theory Google can look at the source code for a Silverlight application, but that doesn’t tell the search engine what’s really going on. This new player does that for Flash.

    =Ryan
    rstewart@adobe.com

  6. @Dossy, all that’s XML based about Silverlight is the graphical markup. Sure, in theory Google can look at the source code for a Silverlight application, but that doesn’t tell the search engine what’s really going on. This new player does that for Flash.

    =Ryan
    rstewart@adobe.com

  7. If MS duplicates this search ability for Silverlight, then I don’t think Google will be able to NOT index Silverlight without a lawsuit coming there way.

  8. If MS duplicates this search ability for Silverlight, then I don’t think Google will be able to NOT index Silverlight without a lawsuit coming there way.

  9. Aw come on Scoble, nobody uses shiverlight, last time I knew they had 0.00000001% share of the market.

    Propaganda doesn’t make it more interesting at all.

    Shiverlight is a total failure!

  10. Aw come on Scoble, nobody uses shiverlight, last time I knew they had 0.00000001% share of the market.

    Propaganda doesn’t make it more interesting at all.

    Shiverlight is a total failure!

  11. Silverlight never had (or has) a prayer of a chance anyways, the market long decided upon all things Flash. Just like Adobe or Google has no chance in developing an Office-killer, the market already declared the winners eons ago. Miracles can and do happen, unseating winners, but that’s the Cubs-World-Series-like exception rather than the norm. With the vast wasteland of .mov, .wmv and .rm, all lost, thankfully Adobe came along and made web video easy.

  12. Silverlight never had (or has) a prayer of a chance anyways, the market long decided upon all things Flash. Just like Adobe or Google has no chance in developing an Office-killer, the market already declared the winners eons ago. Miracles can and do happen, unseating winners, but that’s the Cubs-World-Series-like exception rather than the norm. With the vast wasteland of .mov, .wmv and .rm, all lost, thankfully Adobe came along and made web video easy.

  13. Great. Now all those horrendous Flash sites, with unnavigable interfaces, will end up in my search results. Talk about a stupid move.

    Silverlight? Why would anyone install that? I haven’t seen a sight outside of Microsoft’s own using it. Flash will continue to be on everyone’s computer. Silverlight doesn’t have a chance if nobody outside of M$ uses it.

  14. Great. Now all those horrendous Flash sites, with unnavigable interfaces, will end up in my search results. Talk about a stupid move.

    Silverlight? Why would anyone install that? I haven’t seen a sight outside of Microsoft’s own using it. Flash will continue to be on everyone’s computer. Silverlight doesn’t have a chance if nobody outside of M$ uses it.

  15. Flash instead of, what, Silverlight? What was that again? Oh yes, I remember, another one of Microsoft’s “me, too” technologies…

    I guess all three people who have used it will be very disappointed now…

  16. Flash instead of, what, Silverlight? What was that again? Oh yes, I remember, another one of Microsoft’s “me, too” technologies…

    I guess all three people who have used it will be very disappointed now…

  17. I use silver light and love it.

    Hopefully the upcoming Olympics will help boost silver light useage.

  18. I use silver light and love it.

    Hopefully the upcoming Olympics will help boost silver light useage.

  19. Flash instead of, what, Silverlight? What was that again? Oh yes, I remember, another one of Microsoft’s “me, too” technologies…

    I guess all three people who have used it will be very disappointed now…Ralph

    Sorry Silver light is superior and there’s more to come.

  20. Flash instead of, what, Silverlight? What was that again? Oh yes, I remember, another one of Microsoft’s “me, too” technologies…

    I guess all three people who have used it will be very disappointed now…Ralph

    Sorry Silver light is superior and there’s more to come.

  21. Joe – with companies like Google, Yahoo, Apple bent on promoting any anti-MS technology – you won’t see mass adoption anywhere soon.
    But the more you open up flash the more the void for a closed system opens up.

  22. Joe – with companies like Google, Yahoo, Apple bent on promoting any anti-MS technology – you won’t see mass adoption anywhere soon.
    But the more you open up flash the more the void for a closed system opens up.

  23. I really don’t see the connection here. Silverlight does not define a web site. The meta data surrounding the Silverlight control would define what the web site is all about – nothing new here. I don’t see how a control on a web site would obscure the commercial worth of the content.

  24. I really don’t see the connection here. Silverlight does not define a web site. The meta data surrounding the Silverlight control would define what the web site is all about – nothing new here. I don’t see how a control on a web site would obscure the commercial worth of the content.

  25. So Google finally get their finger out and implement Adobe’s search API which has been around for a while, but doesn’t really make anything SEO friendly, it is about on par with a PDF.

    It is like having a website with no individual pages, or specific markup to determine meaning.
    It might be suitable for a Google sitesearch, but forget it for anything mildly SEO competitive.

    More info? http://www.timnash.co.uk/07/2008/swf-indexing/

    Tim is more geeky on this stuff than me

  26. So Google finally get their finger out and implement Adobe’s search API which has been around for a while, but doesn’t really make anything SEO friendly, it is about on par with a PDF.

    It is like having a website with no individual pages, or specific markup to determine meaning.
    It might be suitable for a Google sitesearch, but forget it for anything mildly SEO competitive.

    More info? http://www.timnash.co.uk/07/2008/swf-indexing/

    Tim is more geeky on this stuff than me

  27. Silverlight is only used by Microsoft themselves (and a few very Microsofty people on websites talking about Microsoft products). And guess whose corporate websites are really awfull to find things on? Right: Microsoft.

    They sure have a massive amount of people clicking around on their websites but that has one main reason: you have to click around for half an hour to find what you want (and I actually work with Microsoft SharePoint all day long).

    I have no idea why Microsoft is trying to do everything – but everything just not quite as good as the others. Why try to attack Flash and loose another huge amount of money while doing so?

  28. Silverlight is only used by Microsoft themselves (and a few very Microsofty people on websites talking about Microsoft products). And guess whose corporate websites are really awfull to find things on? Right: Microsoft.

    They sure have a massive amount of people clicking around on their websites but that has one main reason: you have to click around for half an hour to find what you want (and I actually work with Microsoft SharePoint all day long).

    I have no idea why Microsoft is trying to do everything – but everything just not quite as good as the others. Why try to attack Flash and loose another huge amount of money while doing so?

  29. Robert, you make at least one mistake in almost every sentence you wrote in this post.

    If you had a clue about tech, you might actually be dangerous.

  30. Robert, you make at least one mistake in almost every sentence you wrote in this post.

    If you had a clue about tech, you might actually be dangerous.

  31. Once upon a time Microsoft had a less favorable product in a new field like web browsing. All they had to do was “integrate” their product into their massively popular operating system and that got their foot in the door. If Windows 7 actually turns into something people want and Microsoft can persuade OEMs to NOT have Flash installed then this could get ugly. I wouldn’t put it past a desperate Microsoft.

  32. Once upon a time Microsoft had a less favorable product in a new field like web browsing. All they had to do was “integrate” their product into their massively popular operating system and that got their foot in the door. If Windows 7 actually turns into something people want and Microsoft can persuade OEMs to NOT have Flash installed then this could get ugly. I wouldn’t put it past a desperate Microsoft.

  33. I don’t fully understand all the hate towards SL, it’s a plugin just like flash, or an extention you might install in Firefox.

    It’s a good competition for flash, which is long overdue. Just as Firefox was long overdue competition for IE.

    Silverlight is far from dead despite this news, first off the Olympics will be watched by millions which of course will be only with SL. So their install base will grow tremendously literally overnight.

    Secondly, it’s based of the WPF framework which allows for much faster development across both the web and windows platforms. I’m 99% sure that Windows 7 will rely very heavily on WPF interface and applications which will help get major WPF development off the floor from software companies.

    Third, SL has had one official release (verson 1.0) and that was simply to get it’s foot in the door, which it did quite well for first gen code. They are now working on SL 2.0 which is in its second beta, I expect it will be fully released very soon or at least within the year. (Before the Olympics would be my guess). For being only in version 2 it has strong developer support and more and more sites are beginning to use it well.

    Fourth, assuming Netflix ever follows through with their SL Player then the adoption rate will sky rocket again.

    I wouldn’t count SL as dead yet, there will be a way for indexing it in search engines as well as making it “Accessible”

  34. I don’t fully understand all the hate towards SL, it’s a plugin just like flash, or an extention you might install in Firefox.

    It’s a good competition for flash, which is long overdue. Just as Firefox was long overdue competition for IE.

    Silverlight is far from dead despite this news, first off the Olympics will be watched by millions which of course will be only with SL. So their install base will grow tremendously literally overnight.

    Secondly, it’s based of the WPF framework which allows for much faster development across both the web and windows platforms. I’m 99% sure that Windows 7 will rely very heavily on WPF interface and applications which will help get major WPF development off the floor from software companies.

    Third, SL has had one official release (verson 1.0) and that was simply to get it’s foot in the door, which it did quite well for first gen code. They are now working on SL 2.0 which is in its second beta, I expect it will be fully released very soon or at least within the year. (Before the Olympics would be my guess). For being only in version 2 it has strong developer support and more and more sites are beginning to use it well.

    Fourth, assuming Netflix ever follows through with their SL Player then the adoption rate will sky rocket again.

    I wouldn’t count SL as dead yet, there will be a way for indexing it in search engines as well as making it “Accessible”

  35. I love all the comments RE Silverlight (or “silver what?” etc).

    Newsflash, it’s not done yet, thats why its not got a huge chunk of the market yet.

    Its a much better technology than Flash, and as already said, metadata could easily be added in XML format for search indexing. Its faster & richer and you dont need to be some Flash pundit to use it, and .NET dev can get their hands dirty with it.

    Flash has been around for ages and still has done very little to support things such a search indexing. MS could very well have this implemented for 2.0 if they wanted, all they would need to do is create a XML schema and get Google to work with that and its done.

    Silverlight WILL change the web, and Google/Others WILL index it, because lots of sites WILL take it up (sooner or later), and they need to keep their search RELEVANT.

  36. I love all the comments RE Silverlight (or “silver what?” etc).

    Newsflash, it’s not done yet, thats why its not got a huge chunk of the market yet.

    Its a much better technology than Flash, and as already said, metadata could easily be added in XML format for search indexing. Its faster & richer and you dont need to be some Flash pundit to use it, and .NET dev can get their hands dirty with it.

    Flash has been around for ages and still has done very little to support things such a search indexing. MS could very well have this implemented for 2.0 if they wanted, all they would need to do is create a XML schema and get Google to work with that and its done.

    Silverlight WILL change the web, and Google/Others WILL index it, because lots of sites WILL take it up (sooner or later), and they need to keep their search RELEVANT.

  37. This is all so irrelevant. No one seems to understand that these days when it comes to serious content driven RIAs, the swf files, xap or xaml contain absolutely NO content, they are merely content pulling engines. The content worth indexing comes from databases or web services most of the time. So all the content the engines are going to find is some dummy placeholders the developers left in for testing.

  38. This is all so irrelevant. No one seems to understand that these days when it comes to serious content driven RIAs, the swf files, xap or xaml contain absolutely NO content, they are merely content pulling engines. The content worth indexing comes from databases or web services most of the time. So all the content the engines are going to find is some dummy placeholders the developers left in for testing.

  39. This is my first visit…Awesome site…loved it! And yo its going to be interesting battle out there…and now Google romancing Yahoo and antitrust proceedings against them — we can expect a lotta fireworks…

    good, good, good, good, good, good, good!

    Thanks n regards

  40. This is my first visit…Awesome site…loved it! And yo its going to be interesting battle out there…and now Google romancing Yahoo and antitrust proceedings against them — we can expect a lotta fireworks…

    good, good, good, good, good, good, good!

    Thanks n regards

  41. Though I prefer Flex from Silverlight, I don’t think indexing for search is matter for RIA’s. There is no need to include text contents that are intended for indexing in the application. That means, one can still use traditional html for indexing while use Silverlight to develop the application.

    becoming parents(TM)? visit http://lucascom.webng.com

  42. Though I prefer Flex from Silverlight, I don’t think indexing for search is matter for RIA’s. There is no need to include text contents that are intended for indexing in the application. That means, one can still use traditional html for indexing while use Silverlight to develop the application.

    becoming parents(TM)? visit http://lucascom.webng.com

  43. Who cares whether it’s index-able or not, Jesus Christ. Is every map Google Maps puts out there index-able? Does that affect its popularity? Do users even care?

    Btw, SilverLight pwns Flash any day of a week.

  44. Who cares whether it’s index-able or not, Jesus Christ. Is every map Google Maps puts out there index-able? Does that affect its popularity? Do users even care?

    Btw, SilverLight pwns Flash any day of a week.

  45. I downloaded MS Expression Blend 2.0 for trial. I think it is still not ready the market. There is no basic components like grid or image controls at all! Please don’t waste time to try it. In contrast, Flex Builder 3.0 is far away better and you can build simple web application instantly. I will deploy a flex app to http://lucascom.webng.com soon!

  46. I downloaded MS Expression Blend 2.0 for trial. I think it is still not ready the market. There is no basic components like grid or image controls at all! Please don’t waste time to try it. In contrast, Flex Builder 3.0 is far away better and you can build simple web application instantly. I will deploy a flex app to http://lucascom.webng.com soon!