Did Adobe snub Apple with FlashPlayer 10, Palm Pre, and Development Fund announcements?

Just now Adobe announced lots of mobile phone news. More on that in a second. But what wasn’t announced?

No iPhone support for Flash yet.

What else was announced? FlashPlayer 10 will ship on the Palm Pre. I was briefed on the rest of this stuff last week and they were holding out on this news.

Now THAT is the way to poke Steve Jobs and crew in the eye. Apple has famously not put Flash on the iPhone, which keeps a lot of Web experiences from working.

There’s a TON of news, though, including a $10 million development fund. Here’s what the PR folks sent me from Adobe — I will be updating this post all night long with more news, so come back frequently and often.

UPDATE: Tons of other blogs are writing about this:
Venture Beat: Mobile Flash apps get better distribution, more money.

Press Release from Adobe: Adobe Announces New eBook and PDF Support for Mobile Devices.

Press Release from Adobe: Palm Latest Mobile Industry Leader to Join Open Screen Project.

Press Release from Adobe: Adobe Announces New Flash Lite Distributable Player.

More news on TechMeme (funny how other blogs totally missed the Palm Pre news).

Flash Player 10 for Smartphones
• Browser plug-in for smartphone-class devices with full desktop web compatibility and access to rich applications, interactive content and web videos.
• First operating systems expected to be supported: Android, Windows Mobile, and Nokia S60/Symbian.
• Flash Player 10 for Smartphones expected to be avail to OEMs: End of 2009; Devices expected in market: 2010

Flash Lite Momentum
• According to Strategy Analytics (Jan ‘09 Report), more than 1 billion devices shipped with Flash Lite by the end of Q1 ’09 – one year ahead of schedule. Additional 1.5 billion expected to ship within next 2 years.
• According to Strategy Analytics (Jan ‘09 Report), close to 40% of all new mobile phones and devices worldwide shipped with Flash Lite in ‘08. Also, Flash Lite shipments experienced a 100% year-over-year growth.

New Flash Lite Distributable Player
• Adobe Flash Lite Distributable Player is a new, over-the-air mobile runtime based on Flash Lite 3.1. Enables developers and content providers to create and directly distribute mobile apps.
• Player is automatically installed and updated as apps are downloaded. (WiMo and Nokia S60 first OSs to be supported)
• First step for direct distribution of mobile player; similar to the distribution of Flash Player on the desktop. Distributable Player launches as a beta in the U.S., Spain, Italy and India, and is supported by dozens of content aggregators and developers. (see separate quote sheet)
• Player is part of a larger solution for developers that includes Flash CS4, Device Central CS4 and a mobile packager.

Open Screen Project Fund
• Nokia and Adobe launch $10 million Open Screen Project Fund designed to help developers create apps and services for mobile phones, desktop and CE devices using Flash and AIR. The fund is an open fund with additional OSP partners expected to join.
• Funds are available immediately. (direct grant funding, no VC involvement) Developers are invited to submit concepts for apps that will be reviewed for how innovative the user experience and how robust the app is, and how well it exploits Flash and AIR capabilities. Developers retain all rights to their apps.

New Reader Mobile SDK
• New software development kit to enable OEMs to deliver mobile devices that can download, manage and display PDF content and eBooks. Supports reflowable PDF technology, Adobe content protection technology, and EPUB file format. Replaces Reader LE 2.5.
• Available today. Companies that announced plans to ship devices and apps in 2009 that integrate the technology include Bookeen, iRex Technologies, Lexcycle, Plastic Logic, Polymer Vision, Springs Designs and others. Sony already integrates the engine in the Sony Reader today.

Comments

  1. Will be interesting to see just how robust/compatible it is on those phones. Announcements are one thing but as any Mac user knows, Flash can be one big resource hog. I personally use the Safari ClickToFlash plugin to keep it under control.

  2. Will be interesting to see just how robust/compatible it is on those phones. Announcements are one thing but as any Mac user knows, Flash can be one big resource hog. I personally use the Safari ClickToFlash plugin to keep it under control.

  3. I’m interested to know if they will continue to support Maemo? (Nokia’s N800-N810 operating system).

    v 9 is robust enough to do pretty much everything in tablets. Hope they continue to suport it’s development

  4. I’m interested to know if they will continue to support Maemo? (Nokia’s N800-N810 operating system).

    v 9 is robust enough to do pretty much everything in tablets. Hope they continue to suport it’s development

  5. I am surprised in the # of apple fans that say too little to late for the pre. I do not think they are underestimating the original smart phone.

  6. But don’t Adobe say that they are ‘working on it’ with respect to the iPhone? Hardly a ‘poke in the eye’ if they are trying to get it to run with the same degree of smoothness as the rest of the iPhone.

    Lets wait and see what it looks like in 2010 eh? See if those other phones fall over while costing their owners a second mortgage in data transfer costs.

  7. But don’t Adobe say that they are ‘working on it’ with respect to the iPhone? Hardly a ‘poke in the eye’ if they are trying to get it to run with the same degree of smoothness as the rest of the iPhone.

    Lets wait and see what it looks like in 2010 eh? See if those other phones fall over while costing their owners a second mortgage in data transfer costs.

  8. Tom: if Apple were going to ship Flash it would have done it by now. Especially going into this week at the Mobile World Congress. Adobe, I’m sure, is growing impatient with Apple. If Apple were acting in good faith Adobe would never have done something with Palm. Palm is a total stick in the eye to Apple, especially given the fact that Palm hired a bunch of iPhone people from Apple.

  9. Tom: if Apple were going to ship Flash it would have done it by now. Especially going into this week at the Mobile World Congress. Adobe, I’m sure, is growing impatient with Apple. If Apple were acting in good faith Adobe would never have done something with Palm. Palm is a total stick in the eye to Apple, especially given the fact that Palm hired a bunch of iPhone people from Apple.

  10. Robert – Do you think Apple needs to have Flash? I’m not sure. You see Flash on some sites but not most of the mainstream sites/blogs I visit. Would be interesting to see some stats on what sites iPhone users are visiting. Wouldn’t doubt Apple has those stats and knows more than we do.

  11. Robert – Do you think Apple needs to have Flash? I’m not sure. You see Flash on some sites but not most of the mainstream sites/blogs I visit. Would be interesting to see some stats on what sites iPhone users are visiting. Wouldn’t doubt Apple has those stats and knows more than we do.

  12. @PXLated Google uses flash for graphs on its analytics. If thats not on mainstream use, what is? Every other site I see with rich user experience, flash is a must. (Few use java, but they’re the minority)

  13. @PXLated Google uses flash for graphs on its analytics. If thats not on mainstream use, what is? Every other site I see with rich user experience, flash is a must. (Few use java, but they’re the minority)

  14. Adobe hit this one out of the park with these announcements. Nokia and Palm got top bill and Apple’s negative press towards Adobe & the iPhone finally caught up to them. The Nokia N97 with Flash support is the iPhone killer, hands down. The Palm Pre might be 2nd in line w/ flash support.

  15. Adobe hit this one out of the park with these announcements. Nokia and Palm got top bill and Apple’s negative press towards Adobe & the iPhone finally caught up to them. The Nokia N97 with Flash support is the iPhone killer, hands down. The Palm Pre might be 2nd in line w/ flash support.

  16. OK, warning, bit of a rant follows, a little frustrated with the sudden lack of smarts from some very smart people I know…

    Ive been the only person saying this, so I will repeat it here again loud and clear. PALM IS DONE. They have nothing in the channel, or even in the sweatshops we buy all are goodies from like FOXCONN. Wow, a hands off demo of a “WebOS” WTF is that? “Nova”. OK, wheres the SDK? This things launch just got pushed back AGAIN until “Q3″.

    Bad analogy, but its quick and dirty so it will do the job. Its like W going into Iraq again, press ate that shit up. No reporting, just buying into the sound bites and the media. Weve still yet to see dead Americans come home because of the censorship Bush imposed, but I digress. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE REPORTING on this company and product? Their financials are horrible, debt is huge, balance sheet is completely out of whack, they are virtually non exsistant and yet you people compare them to Apple and Microsoft? Right. Even Apple SHOWED, released and updated people with the iPhone. And Im a PC guy.

    Just cover shit fairly and stop sucking Ed Colligans knob. Oh, and by the way, the BlackBerry Storm does all the shit this Pre supposedly does and it shipped LAST YEAR.

  17. Abhishek – No, Google Analytics isn’t mainstream, it’s a geeky (webmaster) type site. Ask 10 of your none geeky friends if they’ve ever even heard of it. Bet not.

  18. OK, warning, bit of a rant follows, a little frustrated with the sudden lack of smarts from some very smart people I know…

    Ive been the only person saying this, so I will repeat it here again loud and clear. PALM IS DONE. They have nothing in the channel, or even in the sweatshops we buy all are goodies from like FOXCONN. Wow, a hands off demo of a “WebOS” WTF is that? “Nova”. OK, wheres the SDK? This things launch just got pushed back AGAIN until “Q3″.

    Bad analogy, but its quick and dirty so it will do the job. Its like W going into Iraq again, press ate that shit up. No reporting, just buying into the sound bites and the media. Weve still yet to see dead Americans come home because of the censorship Bush imposed, but I digress. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE REPORTING on this company and product? Their financials are horrible, debt is huge, balance sheet is completely out of whack, they are virtually non exsistant and yet you people compare them to Apple and Microsoft? Right. Even Apple SHOWED, released and updated people with the iPhone. And Im a PC guy.

    Just cover shit fairly and stop sucking Ed Colligans knob. Oh, and by the way, the BlackBerry Storm does all the shit this Pre supposedly does and it shipped LAST YEAR.

  19. Abhishek – No, Google Analytics isn’t mainstream, it’s a geeky (webmaster) type site. Ask 10 of your none geeky friends if they’ve ever even heard of it. Bet not.

  20. OGbigMoneyMIKE: do you work for Steve Jobs? Sure sounds like it.

    BlackBerry Storm doing all this last year? Yeah, right. Go ahead and keep believing that. You sound like the Nokia fanatics that come here and fight with me when I told them that iPhone was far superior to an N95 (it is).

    Yes, their financials are horrible. Their product sucked. But this is a totally new team built from the ground up (I met lots of them and their director of software built the drivers for the iPhone).

    Maybe I’m wrong. But I’ll give Palm the chance to ship the phone. Then we can really compare the companies out there. I’ll be first in line for the Palm Pre.

  21. OGbigMoneyMIKE: do you work for Steve Jobs? Sure sounds like it.

    BlackBerry Storm doing all this last year? Yeah, right. Go ahead and keep believing that. You sound like the Nokia fanatics that come here and fight with me when I told them that iPhone was far superior to an N95 (it is).

    Yes, their financials are horrible. Their product sucked. But this is a totally new team built from the ground up (I met lots of them and their director of software built the drivers for the iPhone).

    Maybe I’m wrong. But I’ll give Palm the chance to ship the phone. Then we can really compare the companies out there. I’ll be first in line for the Palm Pre.

  22. You say it like Adobe are messing about. But how come everything has Flash except Apple. In this case Apple is gouging it’s own eyes out. I am looking for a smartphone in the 2nd half of this year. I won’t even consider the iPhone without flash and proper video support. I am practically certain that Abobe has much more costs developing for iPhone than any other platform with no results to show to date. My feeling is that Apple is demanding an inferior flash product.

    The way I see it Apple got ahead of the field and now is trying to hold everyone up with veiled lawsuit treats for their IP, meaning they are unwilling to license technology (they did not invent, only patented) that will improve all our user experiences.

  23. You say it like Adobe are messing about. But how come everything has Flash except Apple. In this case Apple is gouging it’s own eyes out. I am looking for a smartphone in the 2nd half of this year. I won’t even consider the iPhone without flash and proper video support. I am practically certain that Abobe has much more costs developing for iPhone than any other platform with no results to show to date. My feeling is that Apple is demanding an inferior flash product.

    The way I see it Apple got ahead of the field and now is trying to hold everyone up with veiled lawsuit treats for their IP, meaning they are unwilling to license technology (they did not invent, only patented) that will improve all our user experiences.

  24. Flash on Android? not a lot of discussion? is Google out of this picture? I’ve been bouncing back and forth over what mobile platform to use for my web app, and this might tip the scale toward Android. Not because my application uses Flash, but because the inclusion of Flash on the platform would put Android on the same growth bandwagon as the flip video camera, streaming video et all. I love Apple, really I do, but I’ve owed a Newton, and the shine only lasts so long when you stop polishing.

  25. Flash on Android? not a lot of discussion? is Google out of this picture? I’ve been bouncing back and forth over what mobile platform to use for my web app, and this might tip the scale toward Android. Not because my application uses Flash, but because the inclusion of Flash on the platform would put Android on the same growth bandwagon as the flip video camera, streaming video et all. I love Apple, really I do, but I’ve owed a Newton, and the shine only lasts so long when you stop polishing.

  26. @PXLated My point is that Flash is fairly dominant in the Rich UI part of the web.
    If there is anything that has pushed the internet’s reach and capability to what it is today, it’s been Google, Yahoo and the like. And if they make a decision to incorporate flash into their services, Not only does it imply acceptance of the standard but also paves way for the many other sites to doubtlessly adopt the platform.

    The web of the future is not about information display or html pages, its about _interaction_ with the users. And flash is one big way of doing it. Why do you think Adobe acquired Macromedia in the first place if wasnt going to be big? Its pretty obvious although not apparent yet.
    Apple is losing out ground with loss of support for flash. It’s a must have in the current scenario. There are rumours that new version of the iPhone is in the works for release by June.
    I hope they are working on some form of flash to be incorporated in the next release…

  27. @PXLated My point is that Flash is fairly dominant in the Rich UI part of the web.
    If there is anything that has pushed the internet’s reach and capability to what it is today, it’s been Google, Yahoo and the like. And if they make a decision to incorporate flash into their services, Not only does it imply acceptance of the standard but also paves way for the many other sites to doubtlessly adopt the platform.

    The web of the future is not about information display or html pages, its about _interaction_ with the users. And flash is one big way of doing it. Why do you think Adobe acquired Macromedia in the first place if wasnt going to be big? Its pretty obvious although not apparent yet.
    Apple is losing out ground with loss of support for flash. It’s a must have in the current scenario. There are rumours that new version of the iPhone is in the works for release by June.
    I hope they are working on some form of flash to be incorporated in the next release…

  28. Actually, Robert, it sounds to me more like OGbigMoneyMIKE is a short seller who is worried he is going to lose some “bigMoney” if PALM keeps doing well. Poor baby!

  29. So, Palm has their OMG oh so awesome product that will ship… er, maybe Q3. You can only compare what you can buy. Today. By the time the PRE launches, I would be shocked if the next iPhone wasn’t out, or was right around the corner. Quite possible with Flash. Or maybe not. Who knows?

    This reminds me of the old 3D card wars. Even if some company is circulating press samples, it doesn’t mean jack if they’re not available to the public.

    Some perspective in the iPhone vs. Pre kerfuffle, please.

    Disclaimer: Yes, I currently own an iPhone. Yes, I’ve also owned almost every previous version of Palm (starting with original through the 700p) and would own one again if it is significantly better than whatever else I’m using – when it ships.

  30. So, Palm has their OMG oh so awesome product that will ship… er, maybe Q3. You can only compare what you can buy. Today. By the time the PRE launches, I would be shocked if the next iPhone wasn’t out, or was right around the corner. Quite possible with Flash. Or maybe not. Who knows?

    This reminds me of the old 3D card wars. Even if some company is circulating press samples, it doesn’t mean jack if they’re not available to the public.

    Some perspective in the iPhone vs. Pre kerfuffle, please.

    Disclaimer: Yes, I currently own an iPhone. Yes, I’ve also owned almost every previous version of Palm (starting with original through the 700p) and would own one again if it is significantly better than whatever else I’m using – when it ships.

  31. AFAIR the position of Steve Jobs at last years shareholder meeting was :’The full-blown PC Flash version “performs too slow to be useful” on the iPhone, and a mobile version called Flash Lite “is not capable of being used with the Web,” Jobs said.’ (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9885708-37.html)

    Since Adobe is now preparing the full-blown flash version for mobile devices, i don’t think that flash would not make it to the iPhone when it is ready. Have you ever seen an announcement that relates to Apple and goes 10 – 12 months into the future?

    So i’m very relaxed. Flash is going to be on the iPhone when it is ready.

  32. AFAIR the position of Steve Jobs at last years shareholder meeting was :’The full-blown PC Flash version “performs too slow to be useful” on the iPhone, and a mobile version called Flash Lite “is not capable of being used with the Web,” Jobs said.’ (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-9885708-37.html)

    Since Adobe is now preparing the full-blown flash version for mobile devices, i don’t think that flash would not make it to the iPhone when it is ready. Have you ever seen an announcement that relates to Apple and goes 10 – 12 months into the future?

    So i’m very relaxed. Flash is going to be on the iPhone when it is ready.

  33. there is a nice “bonus” in not having Flash on the iPhone. Given the exorbitant costs for downloading to mobile devices in most markets I am somewhat glad I don’t get bombarded with Flash adds while web browsing.

    News Corp sites especially seems to be very heavy on Flash adds. There is one news paper site in particular which downloads a whooping 5 Mbytes in adds when you his the homepage.

  34. there is a nice “bonus” in not having Flash on the iPhone. Given the exorbitant costs for downloading to mobile devices in most markets I am somewhat glad I don’t get bombarded with Flash adds while web browsing.

    News Corp sites especially seems to be very heavy on Flash adds. There is one news paper site in particular which downloads a whooping 5 Mbytes in adds when you his the homepage.

  35. Interesting that they are also supporting a FlashLite release for Windows Mobile. I’ve heard some people saying it’s dying but I don’t really think so. Still a good amount of developer support out there. I like being able to do true multitasking on my phone & WM does a decent job at it, especially compared to iphone (it’s faked if I remember right). Palm Pre looks like the phone i’ve been waiting a long time for, can’t wait.

  36. Interesting that they are also supporting a FlashLite release for Windows Mobile. I’ve heard some people saying it’s dying but I don’t really think so. Still a good amount of developer support out there. I like being able to do true multitasking on my phone & WM does a decent job at it, especially compared to iphone (it’s faked if I remember right). Palm Pre looks like the phone i’ve been waiting a long time for, can’t wait.

  37. Abhishek – I guess we’ll have to just disagree. I don’t think Flash is critical. Yes, there are a few sites where it’s prominent but the vast majority not. And most hot Web-2.0 sites/tech don’t have/require it (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) nor do most eCommerce sites from good old Web-1.0. Macromedia/Adobe have been hyping Flash and how it’s the future since as long as I can remember (used to go to all the FlashForward conferences) so I take it all with a grain of salt.

  38. Abhishek – I guess we’ll have to just disagree. I don’t think Flash is critical. Yes, there are a few sites where it’s prominent but the vast majority not. And most hot Web-2.0 sites/tech don’t have/require it (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) nor do most eCommerce sites from good old Web-1.0. Macromedia/Adobe have been hyping Flash and how it’s the future since as long as I can remember (used to go to all the FlashForward conferences) so I take it all with a grain of salt.

  39. “…which keeps a lot of Web experiences from working.”

    If by web experiences you mean annoying Flash-based “rich” advertising… then you’re welcome to all the experiences you desire. ESPECIALLY on a portable device like the iPhone.

    I even keep Flash turned off by default on my desktop. Blocks 90% of the junky bandwidth-clogging CPU-sucking advertising.

  40. “…which keeps a lot of Web experiences from working.”

    If by web experiences you mean annoying Flash-based “rich” advertising… then you’re welcome to all the experiences you desire. ESPECIALLY on a portable device like the iPhone.

    I even keep Flash turned off by default on my desktop. Blocks 90% of the junky bandwidth-clogging CPU-sucking advertising.

  41. PXLated I dont think flash is _critical_ either. But IMHO that does not warrant it being forcefully absent from the browsing/using experience. Let the users have a choice to decide what they want or dont.

    It’s true that a lot of killer / popular web 2.0 sites manage without flash. Most video streaming sites use flash. Agreed, twitter may not use flash, but 15% of all tweets come from AIR clients like twhirl, tweet deck, snitter and the like. Yes It may not be critical. But blocking options in favor of what’s critical is Simply not the way to go.

    I will not get an iPhone if it doesnt support flash. There’s just so much available on swf/flv that not having it makes for enough loss to support an alternative like Nokia’s N97 or Palm Pre.

    I guess we’ll have to disagree and leave it at that

  42. PXLated I dont think flash is _critical_ either. But IMHO that does not warrant it being forcefully absent from the browsing/using experience. Let the users have a choice to decide what they want or dont.

    It’s true that a lot of killer / popular web 2.0 sites manage without flash. Most video streaming sites use flash. Agreed, twitter may not use flash, but 15% of all tweets come from AIR clients like twhirl, tweet deck, snitter and the like. Yes It may not be critical. But blocking options in favor of what’s critical is Simply not the way to go.

    I will not get an iPhone if it doesnt support flash. There’s just so much available on swf/flv that not having it makes for enough loss to support an alternative like Nokia’s N97 or Palm Pre.

    I guess we’ll have to disagree and leave it at that

  43. Abhishek – And we’ll be able to disagree for quite some time if TechCrunch is correct that it won’t be available on any of those phones until 2010. They used the word Vaporware :-)

  44. Abhishek – And we’ll be able to disagree for quite some time if TechCrunch is correct that it won’t be available on any of those phones until 2010. They used the word Vaporware :-)

  45. I have been using the iPhone 2G for a while now and do a fair amount of surfing on it. The only time I miss Flash is when someone twitters a link to a flv file. Having said that some people ‘still’ link to wmv content. IMHO Flash is a massive resource hog and having it on the iPhone could have a massive impact on performance (especially since the browser supports multiple ‘tabs’).
    The other issue with Flash is that so called ‘designers’ use it to create website monstrosities with weird navigation and large, fixed-width layouts that would be almost impossible to use on a small screen.
    By not giving web designers the crutch of Flash it forces them to be more creative when delivering content to the iPhone resulting in better use of alternative technologies such as CSS/JS including AJAX which tend to require far less bandwidth. I shudder to think of web developers being able to create Flash ‘experiences’ for my iPhone and hope it never happens…

  46. I have been using the iPhone 2G for a while now and do a fair amount of surfing on it. The only time I miss Flash is when someone twitters a link to a flv file. Having said that some people ‘still’ link to wmv content. IMHO Flash is a massive resource hog and having it on the iPhone could have a massive impact on performance (especially since the browser supports multiple ‘tabs’).
    The other issue with Flash is that so called ‘designers’ use it to create website monstrosities with weird navigation and large, fixed-width layouts that would be almost impossible to use on a small screen.
    By not giving web designers the crutch of Flash it forces them to be more creative when delivering content to the iPhone resulting in better use of alternative technologies such as CSS/JS including AJAX which tend to require far less bandwidth. I shudder to think of web developers being able to create Flash ‘experiences’ for my iPhone and hope it never happens…

  47. How can Apple be ‘snubbed’ if Apple doesn’t want Flash in the first place? It’s really about Adobe signing up the 2nd tier smartphone vendors because it can’t get Flash on the coveted iPhone. That’s really the story here; lets pay attention, okay?

    Apple has sold over 17 million iPhones and many iPod Touches in less than 18 months without Flash. By the time the Pre ships, Apple will have over 20 million iPhones in the wild.

    Obviously, if Apple wanted Flash on the iPhone, it would already be there. As soon as the iPhone’s SDK became public, Adobe said it wanted to bring Flash to the iPhone. Similarly, Sun said the same about Java. That was nearly a year ago.

    How’s that working out for them? Here’s a hint: there’s no 3rd-party runtime environment on the iPhone. No Java; no Flash. Think about it: Apple is not going to turn over control of a critical piece of iPhone functionality (video/animation) to 3rd-party technology like Flash, unless it’s deeply involved in its development and implementation. I doubt Adobe would go for the kind of terms Apple would want anyway.

    What’s Apple’s plan? We won’t know until Apple is ready to talk about them; however, some data points do exist: Apple has an entire media stack called QuickTime; perhaps you’ve heard of it? The iPhone contains hardware for accelerated playback of H.264 video, which QuickTime supports. Mobile Safari already supports CSS Animation which works like Flash; see “CSS Animation Coming to Safari, Already in iPhone. Less Dependence on Flash?” http://bit.ly/5A15v. Native iPhone apps can already use Core Animation.

    I suspect we’ll know lots more about all of this come June, with Apple’s World Wide Developers Conference and the announcement of version 3.0 of the iPhone’s operating system.

  48. How can Apple be ‘snubbed’ if Apple doesn’t want Flash in the first place? It’s really about Adobe signing up the 2nd tier smartphone vendors because it can’t get Flash on the coveted iPhone. That’s really the story here; lets pay attention, okay?

    Apple has sold over 17 million iPhones and many iPod Touches in less than 18 months without Flash. By the time the Pre ships, Apple will have over 20 million iPhones in the wild.

    Obviously, if Apple wanted Flash on the iPhone, it would already be there. As soon as the iPhone’s SDK became public, Adobe said it wanted to bring Flash to the iPhone. Similarly, Sun said the same about Java. That was nearly a year ago.

    How’s that working out for them? Here’s a hint: there’s no 3rd-party runtime environment on the iPhone. No Java; no Flash. Think about it: Apple is not going to turn over control of a critical piece of iPhone functionality (video/animation) to 3rd-party technology like Flash, unless it’s deeply involved in its development and implementation. I doubt Adobe would go for the kind of terms Apple would want anyway.

    What’s Apple’s plan? We won’t know until Apple is ready to talk about them; however, some data points do exist: Apple has an entire media stack called QuickTime; perhaps you’ve heard of it? The iPhone contains hardware for accelerated playback of H.264 video, which QuickTime supports. Mobile Safari already supports CSS Animation which works like Flash; see “CSS Animation Coming to Safari, Already in iPhone. Less Dependence on Flash?” http://bit.ly/5A15v. Native iPhone apps can already use Core Animation.

    I suspect we’ll know lots more about all of this come June, with Apple’s World Wide Developers Conference and the announcement of version 3.0 of the iPhone’s operating system.

  49. Adobe wants Flash everywhere, playing political games gets them nowhere. Announce on Palm, eventually it will hit Apple. Apple has it’s own reasons, just like the Georgetown Historical District Board has theirs. Obviously they don’t feel that Flash is optimized for mobile devices, and that Lite doesn’t give you the full experience. The fact of Palm doing an “broke version” is actually good news to them. But really a moot point, Palm will need at least 2 years to even get up to speed, assuming they last.

    You are creating fake phantom drama where there is none, not that unusual, quite a common blogger technique. Apple is all about the experience, Adobe is all about the market share, end of story.

  50. Adobe wants Flash everywhere, playing political games gets them nowhere. Announce on Palm, eventually it will hit Apple. Apple has it’s own reasons, just like the Georgetown Historical District Board has theirs. Obviously they don’t feel that Flash is optimized for mobile devices, and that Lite doesn’t give you the full experience. The fact of Palm doing an “broke version” is actually good news to them. But really a moot point, Palm will need at least 2 years to even get up to speed, assuming they last.

    You are creating fake phantom drama where there is none, not that unusual, quite a common blogger technique. Apple is all about the experience, Adobe is all about the market share, end of story.

  51. Abhishek,
    Google Analytics also use mouseover effects on those graphs. How those will work on mouseless device like smartphone? Could you please point me to one Flash site with “Rich UI” which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.

  52. Abhishek,
    Google Analytics also use mouseover effects on those graphs. How those will work on mouseless device like smartphone? Could you please point me to one Flash site with “Rich UI” which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.

  53. Adobe Flash player 10 get me in some kind of problems. I am talking about my wordpress blog and the impossibility to upload any picture in my blog posts. Lucky me I am a smart guy and I figure it out how to solve the issue.

  54. Adobe Flash player 10 get me in some kind of problems. I am talking about my wordpress blog and the impossibility to upload any picture in my blog posts. Lucky me I am a smart guy and I figure it out how to solve the issue.

  55. Albert – Completely agree. Although I personally believe devices should be open to all options and not a mode for controlling future software direction. Let them be 2 separate battles. How many sites use quicktime anyway?

    Peter – by Analytics using Flash, I meant its use as a standard, not the specific functionality.

    “Could you please point me to one Flash site with ‘Rich UI’ which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.”
    Smarphones haven’t yet had flash support so no-one has yet built with that mindset. That’s precisely where the 10M$ grant is aimed at, you’ll see enough practical-not theoretical-sites and applications coming up soon. One big sector I see is streaming.

    Of course opinions on flash may vary. But those who don’t like it can still turn it off on the phone if its available, right? Why cripple the experience for those who do want it? Promote quicktime? I’d hate that

  56. Albert – Completely agree. Although I personally believe devices should be open to all options and not a mode for controlling future software direction. Let them be 2 separate battles. How many sites use quicktime anyway?

    Peter – by Analytics using Flash, I meant its use as a standard, not the specific functionality.

    “Could you please point me to one Flash site with ‘Rich UI’ which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.”
    Smarphones haven’t yet had flash support so no-one has yet built with that mindset. That’s precisely where the 10M$ grant is aimed at, you’ll see enough practical-not theoretical-sites and applications coming up soon. One big sector I see is streaming.

    Of course opinions on flash may vary. But those who don’t like it can still turn it off on the phone if its available, right? Why cripple the experience for those who do want it? Promote quicktime? I’d hate that

  57. Abhishek – “Promote quicktime?”
    No, how about just open standards rather than Quicktime, Flash or any other proprietary tech. Instead of Flash Video, standard h.264.
    —–
    “no-one has yet built with that mindset”
    So Flash 10 is in 2010 and developers will have to change their mindset and develop different sites specifically for mobile? I thought the whole outcry was for accessing regular Flash sites.

  58. Abhishek – “Promote quicktime?”
    No, how about just open standards rather than Quicktime, Flash or any other proprietary tech. Instead of Flash Video, standard h.264.
    —–
    “no-one has yet built with that mindset”
    So Flash 10 is in 2010 and developers will have to change their mindset and develop different sites specifically for mobile? I thought the whole outcry was for accessing regular Flash sites.

  59. PXLated – Yes. I’m all for open standards. Quicktime is not open. Open Screen Project is all about getting the flash standards open and transparent.

    regular flash sites – yes, including the ones which stream audio / video (I’d personally want this).
    regular flash sites which now support smartphone viewing and touch capabilities – that will go beyond the outcry. Supporting flash will not only allow the users to view flash content as expected, but will provide platforms for a better experience thereby surpassing the initial expectation. Thats how softwares and platforms develop.

    But all in all, what’s the harm in _supporting_ flash. Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here. That’s their choice isnt it?

  60. PXLated – Yes. I’m all for open standards. Quicktime is not open. Open Screen Project is all about getting the flash standards open and transparent.

    regular flash sites – yes, including the ones which stream audio / video (I’d personally want this).
    regular flash sites which now support smartphone viewing and touch capabilities – that will go beyond the outcry. Supporting flash will not only allow the users to view flash content as expected, but will provide platforms for a better experience thereby surpassing the initial expectation. Thats how softwares and platforms develop.

    But all in all, what’s the harm in _supporting_ flash. Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here. That’s their choice isnt it?

  61. It has been too long for iphone to not have flash inside.
    In this comparison the nokia’s n97 is better (not even palm pre). but iphone market will be hit bad. Then maybe apple will get flash on iphone

  62. It has been too long for iphone to not have flash inside.
    In this comparison the nokia’s n97 is better (not even palm pre). but iphone market will be hit bad. Then maybe apple will get flash on iphone

  63. Abhishek…”Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here.”
    No, I’m debating if proprietary Flash is even needed and if Apple should worry about it. With 15-20K iPhone apps currently available I can’t imaging there’s much interactive that won’t be available. And I don’t see that many Flash sites in the overall scheme of the web.
    But, it’s all mox/nix as Flash10 is a year away and we won’t know if Adobe was able to make it work efficiently/well/robust till then. They don’t exactly have a good record in that regard.

  64. Abhishek…”Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here.”
    No, I’m debating if proprietary Flash is even needed and if Apple should worry about it. With 15-20K iPhone apps currently available I can’t imaging there’s much interactive that won’t be available. And I don’t see that many Flash sites in the overall scheme of the web.
    But, it’s all mox/nix as Flash10 is a year away and we won’t know if Adobe was able to make it work efficiently/well/robust till then. They don’t exactly have a good record in that regard.

  65. Yup, looks like we’ll have to wait and see.
    If a company like Nokia with a reach of millions more than Apple decides to support flash in its flagship releases, they aren’t being fools in doing so. Questioning the necessity of flash on phones is something that the users will have to decide (and companies, follow). Not mobile phones companies, not apple, not you, not me. Lets just wait and watch.

  66. Yup, looks like we’ll have to wait and see.
    If a company like Nokia with a reach of millions more than Apple decides to support flash in its flagship releases, they aren’t being fools in doing so. Questioning the necessity of flash on phones is something that the users will have to decide (and companies, follow). Not mobile phones companies, not apple, not you, not me. Lets just wait and watch.

  67. Robert, can you please follow up on the .epub ebook support? The Kindle format isn’t readable on a PC, only the Kindle itself. It seems safe to say people will buy more ebooks if they’re not locked to one device nor locked out of their “main” device, the notebook. If Amazon sticks to their format, who will create the centralized store for .epub and what devices will play it? Thanks!

  68. Robert, can you please follow up on the .epub ebook support? The Kindle format isn’t readable on a PC, only the Kindle itself. It seems safe to say people will buy more ebooks if they’re not locked to one device nor locked out of their “main” device, the notebook. If Amazon sticks to their format, who will create the centralized store for .epub and what devices will play it? Thanks!

  69. Abhishek, are you saying Nokia never makes mistakes because they are bigger than Apple? By your logic, the N-Gage is the leading mobile gaming platform right now.

  70. Abhishek, are you saying Nokia never makes mistakes because they are bigger than Apple? By your logic, the N-Gage is the leading mobile gaming platform right now.

  71. Oh, I never owned an iphone but learnt it doesnt have context menus nor cut/paste? whao, cant imagine the pain, wondering what usability it has then. Move over to win mobile folks.

    I think apple doesnt want flash on iphone, period! It’s not a matter of flash 10 being too heavy or flash lite being too light. There’s flash 7 for windows mobile and runs pretty well even though most of them have lower processors compared to said iphone. Check their sites, not a byte of flash is there. The reason: Flash killed Quicktime! It’s time for payback.

    Most bloggers here are talking of sites running flash and animations being a disturbance. The purpose of porting flash lite to pre and by extension the purpose of this announcement is not really for phones to play flash content based sites. It’s for us developers to leverage flash to build apps that’ll run on mobile phones. The $10million is not to build flash sites, it’s to build sexy flash applications that will wow users on mobile phones and that’s flash’s strength and that is the purpose of porting flash to mobile phones!

    For you guys that say social networks dont need flash, for the record: what does Facebook officially use to Play your uploaded videos? What does it use to record videos? how about myspace? what does CNN, BBC use to play videos? Maybe we should go back to choose from options: Windows Media Player | Real Player | Quicktime Player. Flash makes life seamless.

    If you have developed on J2ME (Java’s mobile edition) and Flash Lite, then you’ll understand better. To create a button in J2ME, you have to program the raw look and feel. In Flash lite, you draw a button with Mouse! Moreso the strength is in its consistency. What I see on phone A appears same on Phone B.

  72. Oh, I never owned an iphone but learnt it doesnt have context menus nor cut/paste? whao, cant imagine the pain, wondering what usability it has then. Move over to win mobile folks.

    I think apple doesnt want flash on iphone, period! It’s not a matter of flash 10 being too heavy or flash lite being too light. There’s flash 7 for windows mobile and runs pretty well even though most of them have lower processors compared to said iphone. Check their sites, not a byte of flash is there. The reason: Flash killed Quicktime! It’s time for payback.

    Most bloggers here are talking of sites running flash and animations being a disturbance. The purpose of porting flash lite to pre and by extension the purpose of this announcement is not really for phones to play flash content based sites. It’s for us developers to leverage flash to build apps that’ll run on mobile phones. The $10million is not to build flash sites, it’s to build sexy flash applications that will wow users on mobile phones and that’s flash’s strength and that is the purpose of porting flash to mobile phones!

    For you guys that say social networks dont need flash, for the record: what does Facebook officially use to Play your uploaded videos? What does it use to record videos? how about myspace? what does CNN, BBC use to play videos? Maybe we should go back to choose from options: Windows Media Player | Real Player | Quicktime Player. Flash makes life seamless.

    If you have developed on J2ME (Java’s mobile edition) and Flash Lite, then you’ll understand better. To create a button in J2ME, you have to program the raw look and feel. In Flash lite, you draw a button with Mouse! Moreso the strength is in its consistency. What I see on phone A appears same on Phone B.

  73. “No iPhone support for Flash yet.”

    Scoble,

    It seems to have escaped your attention that Apple doesn’t want Flash on the iPhone. It’s a major resource hog. Also, anything that runs a language interpreter (like a JVM or Flash) is explicitly prohibited by the iPhone developer terms.

  74. “No iPhone support for Flash yet.”

    Scoble,

    It seems to have escaped your attention that Apple doesn’t want Flash on the iPhone. It’s a major resource hog. Also, anything that runs a language interpreter (like a JVM or Flash) is explicitly prohibited by the iPhone developer terms.

  75. The only real flaw that people are poking at on the Pre is the amount of apps. That should not be a problem hough i the next few years. The Pre's hardware such as flash and the new WebOS will make it easier to create apps. So all in all, people should be comparing the hardware and seeing the Pre's iant leaps in networking. The amount of applications on the Pre may be low but that is only because it just came out!

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