Did Adobe snub Apple with FlashPlayer 10, Palm Pre, and Development Fund announcements?

Just now Adobe announced lots of mobile phone news. More on that in a second. But what wasn’t announced?

No iPhone support for Flash yet.

What else was announced? FlashPlayer 10 will ship on the Palm Pre. I was briefed on the rest of this stuff last week and they were holding out on this news.

Now THAT is the way to poke Steve Jobs and crew in the eye. Apple has famously not put Flash on the iPhone, which keeps a lot of Web experiences from working.

There’s a TON of news, though, including a $10 million development fund. Here’s what the PR folks sent me from Adobe — I will be updating this post all night long with more news, so come back frequently and often.

UPDATE: Tons of other blogs are writing about this:
Venture Beat: Mobile Flash apps get better distribution, more money.

Press Release from Adobe: Adobe Announces New eBook and PDF Support for Mobile Devices.

Press Release from Adobe: Palm Latest Mobile Industry Leader to Join Open Screen Project.

Press Release from Adobe: Adobe Announces New Flash Lite Distributable Player.

More news on TechMeme (funny how other blogs totally missed the Palm Pre news).

Flash Player 10 for Smartphones
• Browser plug-in for smartphone-class devices with full desktop web compatibility and access to rich applications, interactive content and web videos.
• First operating systems expected to be supported: Android, Windows Mobile, and Nokia S60/Symbian.
• Flash Player 10 for Smartphones expected to be avail to OEMs: End of 2009; Devices expected in market: 2010

Flash Lite Momentum
• According to Strategy Analytics (Jan ‘09 Report), more than 1 billion devices shipped with Flash Lite by the end of Q1 ’09 – one year ahead of schedule. Additional 1.5 billion expected to ship within next 2 years.
• According to Strategy Analytics (Jan ‘09 Report), close to 40% of all new mobile phones and devices worldwide shipped with Flash Lite in ‘08. Also, Flash Lite shipments experienced a 100% year-over-year growth.

New Flash Lite Distributable Player
• Adobe Flash Lite Distributable Player is a new, over-the-air mobile runtime based on Flash Lite 3.1. Enables developers and content providers to create and directly distribute mobile apps.
• Player is automatically installed and updated as apps are downloaded. (WiMo and Nokia S60 first OSs to be supported)
• First step for direct distribution of mobile player; similar to the distribution of Flash Player on the desktop. Distributable Player launches as a beta in the U.S., Spain, Italy and India, and is supported by dozens of content aggregators and developers. (see separate quote sheet)
• Player is part of a larger solution for developers that includes Flash CS4, Device Central CS4 and a mobile packager.

Open Screen Project Fund
• Nokia and Adobe launch $10 million Open Screen Project Fund designed to help developers create apps and services for mobile phones, desktop and CE devices using Flash and AIR. The fund is an open fund with additional OSP partners expected to join.
• Funds are available immediately. (direct grant funding, no VC involvement) Developers are invited to submit concepts for apps that will be reviewed for how innovative the user experience and how robust the app is, and how well it exploits Flash and AIR capabilities. Developers retain all rights to their apps.

New Reader Mobile SDK
• New software development kit to enable OEMs to deliver mobile devices that can download, manage and display PDF content and eBooks. Supports reflowable PDF technology, Adobe content protection technology, and EPUB file format. Replaces Reader LE 2.5.
• Available today. Companies that announced plans to ship devices and apps in 2009 that integrate the technology include Bookeen, iRex Technologies, Lexcycle, Plastic Logic, Polymer Vision, Springs Designs and others. Sony already integrates the engine in the Sony Reader today.

98 thoughts on “Did Adobe snub Apple with FlashPlayer 10, Palm Pre, and Development Fund announcements?

  1. <h2 align=”center”>Don't Do For Ugg Boots UK</h2>

    –>If you own a pair of Ugg boots, ugg classic short, be sure to take proper care of them and clean them regularly. With the proper care and cleaning, Uggs can last several years or even a lifetime.

    You love sheepskin footwear and ugg classic because they are comfortable and fashionable. How to keep them looking great? The following are a few tips to help you to know what you don't do for your natural beauty and functionality uggs.

    –>Tip one, don't store your cardy boots ugg in a light place. Because they can bleach in extreme sunlight.

    –>Tip two, ugg boots should not be worn in extremely moist or muddy conditions as moisture can cause problems.

    –>Tip three, don't clean the exterior of? your uggs knightsbridge with a hard brush or cloth at first time dirty.

    –>Tip four, trying not to saturate the sheepskin footwear with water, especially warm or hot water. And don't clean them in a washing machine or dryer, this will cause problems with shrinkage and can adversely change the sheepskin.

    –>Tip five, if need, except specially detergent for sheepskin product, just like classic ugg mini, don't use any wool detergent. Also don't use high concentration cleaning solution.

    –>Some suggestions for you to protect your natural beauty and functionality uggs long periods of time. And also hoping to help you solving your hesitation, spending little time to know more information about ugg boots.

    –>All rights reserved, reprint, please specify source comes from http://www.goodugg.co.ukbailey button,ugg knightsbridge boots,cardy boots,ugg tall classic

  2. The only real flaw that people are poking at on the Pre is the amount of apps. That should not be a problem hough i the next few years. The Pre's hardware such as flash and the new WebOS will make it easier to create apps. So all in all, people should be comparing the hardware and seeing the Pre's iant leaps in networking. The amount of applications on the Pre may be low but that is only because it just came out!

  3. “No iPhone support for Flash yet.”

    Scoble,

    It seems to have escaped your attention that Apple doesn’t want Flash on the iPhone. It’s a major resource hog. Also, anything that runs a language interpreter (like a JVM or Flash) is explicitly prohibited by the iPhone developer terms.

  4. “No iPhone support for Flash yet.”

    Scoble,

    It seems to have escaped your attention that Apple doesn’t want Flash on the iPhone. It’s a major resource hog. Also, anything that runs a language interpreter (like a JVM or Flash) is explicitly prohibited by the iPhone developer terms.

  5. Oh, I never owned an iphone but learnt it doesnt have context menus nor cut/paste? whao, cant imagine the pain, wondering what usability it has then. Move over to win mobile folks.

    I think apple doesnt want flash on iphone, period! It’s not a matter of flash 10 being too heavy or flash lite being too light. There’s flash 7 for windows mobile and runs pretty well even though most of them have lower processors compared to said iphone. Check their sites, not a byte of flash is there. The reason: Flash killed Quicktime! It’s time for payback.

    Most bloggers here are talking of sites running flash and animations being a disturbance. The purpose of porting flash lite to pre and by extension the purpose of this announcement is not really for phones to play flash content based sites. It’s for us developers to leverage flash to build apps that’ll run on mobile phones. The $10million is not to build flash sites, it’s to build sexy flash applications that will wow users on mobile phones and that’s flash’s strength and that is the purpose of porting flash to mobile phones!

    For you guys that say social networks dont need flash, for the record: what does Facebook officially use to Play your uploaded videos? What does it use to record videos? how about myspace? what does CNN, BBC use to play videos? Maybe we should go back to choose from options: Windows Media Player | Real Player | Quicktime Player. Flash makes life seamless.

    If you have developed on J2ME (Java’s mobile edition) and Flash Lite, then you’ll understand better. To create a button in J2ME, you have to program the raw look and feel. In Flash lite, you draw a button with Mouse! Moreso the strength is in its consistency. What I see on phone A appears same on Phone B.

  6. Oh, I never owned an iphone but learnt it doesnt have context menus nor cut/paste? whao, cant imagine the pain, wondering what usability it has then. Move over to win mobile folks.

    I think apple doesnt want flash on iphone, period! It’s not a matter of flash 10 being too heavy or flash lite being too light. There’s flash 7 for windows mobile and runs pretty well even though most of them have lower processors compared to said iphone. Check their sites, not a byte of flash is there. The reason: Flash killed Quicktime! It’s time for payback.

    Most bloggers here are talking of sites running flash and animations being a disturbance. The purpose of porting flash lite to pre and by extension the purpose of this announcement is not really for phones to play flash content based sites. It’s for us developers to leverage flash to build apps that’ll run on mobile phones. The $10million is not to build flash sites, it’s to build sexy flash applications that will wow users on mobile phones and that’s flash’s strength and that is the purpose of porting flash to mobile phones!

    For you guys that say social networks dont need flash, for the record: what does Facebook officially use to Play your uploaded videos? What does it use to record videos? how about myspace? what does CNN, BBC use to play videos? Maybe we should go back to choose from options: Windows Media Player | Real Player | Quicktime Player. Flash makes life seamless.

    If you have developed on J2ME (Java’s mobile edition) and Flash Lite, then you’ll understand better. To create a button in J2ME, you have to program the raw look and feel. In Flash lite, you draw a button with Mouse! Moreso the strength is in its consistency. What I see on phone A appears same on Phone B.

  7. Abhishek, are you saying Nokia never makes mistakes because they are bigger than Apple? By your logic, the N-Gage is the leading mobile gaming platform right now.

  8. Abhishek, are you saying Nokia never makes mistakes because they are bigger than Apple? By your logic, the N-Gage is the leading mobile gaming platform right now.

  9. Robert, can you please follow up on the .epub ebook support? The Kindle format isn’t readable on a PC, only the Kindle itself. It seems safe to say people will buy more ebooks if they’re not locked to one device nor locked out of their “main” device, the notebook. If Amazon sticks to their format, who will create the centralized store for .epub and what devices will play it? Thanks!

  10. Robert, can you please follow up on the .epub ebook support? The Kindle format isn’t readable on a PC, only the Kindle itself. It seems safe to say people will buy more ebooks if they’re not locked to one device nor locked out of their “main” device, the notebook. If Amazon sticks to their format, who will create the centralized store for .epub and what devices will play it? Thanks!

  11. Yup, looks like we’ll have to wait and see.
    If a company like Nokia with a reach of millions more than Apple decides to support flash in its flagship releases, they aren’t being fools in doing so. Questioning the necessity of flash on phones is something that the users will have to decide (and companies, follow). Not mobile phones companies, not apple, not you, not me. Lets just wait and watch.

  12. Yup, looks like we’ll have to wait and see.
    If a company like Nokia with a reach of millions more than Apple decides to support flash in its flagship releases, they aren’t being fools in doing so. Questioning the necessity of flash on phones is something that the users will have to decide (and companies, follow). Not mobile phones companies, not apple, not you, not me. Lets just wait and watch.

  13. Abhishek…”Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here.”
    No, I’m debating if proprietary Flash is even needed and if Apple should worry about it. With 15-20K iPhone apps currently available I can’t imaging there’s much interactive that won’t be available. And I don’t see that many Flash sites in the overall scheme of the web.
    But, it’s all mox/nix as Flash10 is a year away and we won’t know if Adobe was able to make it work efficiently/well/robust till then. They don’t exactly have a good record in that regard.

  14. Abhishek…”Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here.”
    No, I’m debating if proprietary Flash is even needed and if Apple should worry about it. With 15-20K iPhone apps currently available I can’t imaging there’s much interactive that won’t be available. And I don’t see that many Flash sites in the overall scheme of the web.
    But, it’s all mox/nix as Flash10 is a year away and we won’t know if Adobe was able to make it work efficiently/well/robust till then. They don’t exactly have a good record in that regard.

  15. It has been too long for iphone to not have flash inside.
    In this comparison the nokia’s n97 is better (not even palm pre). but iphone market will be hit bad. Then maybe apple will get flash on iphone

  16. It has been too long for iphone to not have flash inside.
    In this comparison the nokia’s n97 is better (not even palm pre). but iphone market will be hit bad. Then maybe apple will get flash on iphone

  17. PXLated – Yes. I’m all for open standards. Quicktime is not open. Open Screen Project is all about getting the flash standards open and transparent.

    regular flash sites – yes, including the ones which stream audio / video (I’d personally want this).
    regular flash sites which now support smartphone viewing and touch capabilities – that will go beyond the outcry. Supporting flash will not only allow the users to view flash content as expected, but will provide platforms for a better experience thereby surpassing the initial expectation. Thats how softwares and platforms develop.

    But all in all, what’s the harm in _supporting_ flash. Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here. That’s their choice isnt it?

  18. PXLated – Yes. I’m all for open standards. Quicktime is not open. Open Screen Project is all about getting the flash standards open and transparent.

    regular flash sites – yes, including the ones which stream audio / video (I’d personally want this).
    regular flash sites which now support smartphone viewing and touch capabilities – that will go beyond the outcry. Supporting flash will not only allow the users to view flash content as expected, but will provide platforms for a better experience thereby surpassing the initial expectation. Thats how softwares and platforms develop.

    But all in all, what’s the harm in _supporting_ flash. Whether user’s do install / enable it is the issue you’re debating here. That’s their choice isnt it?

  19. Abhishek – “Promote quicktime?”
    No, how about just open standards rather than Quicktime, Flash or any other proprietary tech. Instead of Flash Video, standard h.264.
    —–
    “no-one has yet built with that mindset”
    So Flash 10 is in 2010 and developers will have to change their mindset and develop different sites specifically for mobile? I thought the whole outcry was for accessing regular Flash sites.

  20. Abhishek – “Promote quicktime?”
    No, how about just open standards rather than Quicktime, Flash or any other proprietary tech. Instead of Flash Video, standard h.264.
    —–
    “no-one has yet built with that mindset”
    So Flash 10 is in 2010 and developers will have to change their mindset and develop different sites specifically for mobile? I thought the whole outcry was for accessing regular Flash sites.

  21. Albert – Completely agree. Although I personally believe devices should be open to all options and not a mode for controlling future software direction. Let them be 2 separate battles. How many sites use quicktime anyway?

    Peter – by Analytics using Flash, I meant its use as a standard, not the specific functionality.

    “Could you please point me to one Flash site with ‘Rich UI’ which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.”
    Smarphones haven’t yet had flash support so no-one has yet built with that mindset. That’s precisely where the 10M$ grant is aimed at, you’ll see enough practical-not theoretical-sites and applications coming up soon. One big sector I see is streaming.

    Of course opinions on flash may vary. But those who don’t like it can still turn it off on the phone if its available, right? Why cripple the experience for those who do want it? Promote quicktime? I’d hate that

  22. Albert – Completely agree. Although I personally believe devices should be open to all options and not a mode for controlling future software direction. Let them be 2 separate battles. How many sites use quicktime anyway?

    Peter – by Analytics using Flash, I meant its use as a standard, not the specific functionality.

    “Could you please point me to one Flash site with ‘Rich UI’ which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.”
    Smarphones haven’t yet had flash support so no-one has yet built with that mindset. That’s precisely where the 10M$ grant is aimed at, you’ll see enough practical-not theoretical-sites and applications coming up soon. One big sector I see is streaming.

    Of course opinions on flash may vary. But those who don’t like it can still turn it off on the phone if its available, right? Why cripple the experience for those who do want it? Promote quicktime? I’d hate that

  23. Adobe Flash player 10 get me in some kind of problems. I am talking about my wordpress blog and the impossibility to upload any picture in my blog posts. Lucky me I am a smart guy and I figure it out how to solve the issue.

  24. Adobe Flash player 10 get me in some kind of problems. I am talking about my wordpress blog and the impossibility to upload any picture in my blog posts. Lucky me I am a smart guy and I figure it out how to solve the issue.

  25. Abhishek,
    Google Analytics also use mouseover effects on those graphs. How those will work on mouseless device like smartphone? Could you please point me to one Flash site with “Rich UI” which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.

  26. Abhishek,
    Google Analytics also use mouseover effects on those graphs. How those will work on mouseless device like smartphone? Could you please point me to one Flash site with “Rich UI” which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.

  27. Adobe wants Flash everywhere, playing political games gets them nowhere. Announce on Palm, eventually it will hit Apple. Apple has it’s own reasons, just like the Georgetown Historical District Board has theirs. Obviously they don’t feel that Flash is optimized for mobile devices, and that Lite doesn’t give you the full experience. The fact of Palm doing an “broke version” is actually good news to them. But really a moot point, Palm will need at least 2 years to even get up to speed, assuming they last.

    You are creating fake phantom drama where there is none, not that unusual, quite a common blogger technique. Apple is all about the experience, Adobe is all about the market share, end of story.

  28. Adobe wants Flash everywhere, playing political games gets them nowhere. Announce on Palm, eventually it will hit Apple. Apple has it’s own reasons, just like the Georgetown Historical District Board has theirs. Obviously they don’t feel that Flash is optimized for mobile devices, and that Lite doesn’t give you the full experience. The fact of Palm doing an “broke version” is actually good news to them. But really a moot point, Palm will need at least 2 years to even get up to speed, assuming they last.

    You are creating fake phantom drama where there is none, not that unusual, quite a common blogger technique. Apple is all about the experience, Adobe is all about the market share, end of story.

  29. How can Apple be ‘snubbed’ if Apple doesn’t want Flash in the first place? It’s really about Adobe signing up the 2nd tier smartphone vendors because it can’t get Flash on the coveted iPhone. That’s really the story here; lets pay attention, okay?

    Apple has sold over 17 million iPhones and many iPod Touches in less than 18 months without Flash. By the time the Pre ships, Apple will have over 20 million iPhones in the wild.

    Obviously, if Apple wanted Flash on the iPhone, it would already be there. As soon as the iPhone’s SDK became public, Adobe said it wanted to bring Flash to the iPhone. Similarly, Sun said the same about Java. That was nearly a year ago.

    How’s that working out for them? Here’s a hint: there’s no 3rd-party runtime environment on the iPhone. No Java; no Flash. Think about it: Apple is not going to turn over control of a critical piece of iPhone functionality (video/animation) to 3rd-party technology like Flash, unless it’s deeply involved in its development and implementation. I doubt Adobe would go for the kind of terms Apple would want anyway.

    What’s Apple’s plan? We won’t know until Apple is ready to talk about them; however, some data points do exist: Apple has an entire media stack called QuickTime; perhaps you’ve heard of it? The iPhone contains hardware for accelerated playback of H.264 video, which QuickTime supports. Mobile Safari already supports CSS Animation which works like Flash; see “CSS Animation Coming to Safari, Already in iPhone. Less Dependence on Flash?” http://bit.ly/5A15v. Native iPhone apps can already use Core Animation.

    I suspect we’ll know lots more about all of this come June, with Apple’s World Wide Developers Conference and the announcement of version 3.0 of the iPhone’s operating system.

  30. How can Apple be ‘snubbed’ if Apple doesn’t want Flash in the first place? It’s really about Adobe signing up the 2nd tier smartphone vendors because it can’t get Flash on the coveted iPhone. That’s really the story here; lets pay attention, okay?

    Apple has sold over 17 million iPhones and many iPod Touches in less than 18 months without Flash. By the time the Pre ships, Apple will have over 20 million iPhones in the wild.

    Obviously, if Apple wanted Flash on the iPhone, it would already be there. As soon as the iPhone’s SDK became public, Adobe said it wanted to bring Flash to the iPhone. Similarly, Sun said the same about Java. That was nearly a year ago.

    How’s that working out for them? Here’s a hint: there’s no 3rd-party runtime environment on the iPhone. No Java; no Flash. Think about it: Apple is not going to turn over control of a critical piece of iPhone functionality (video/animation) to 3rd-party technology like Flash, unless it’s deeply involved in its development and implementation. I doubt Adobe would go for the kind of terms Apple would want anyway.

    What’s Apple’s plan? We won’t know until Apple is ready to talk about them; however, some data points do exist: Apple has an entire media stack called QuickTime; perhaps you’ve heard of it? The iPhone contains hardware for accelerated playback of H.264 video, which QuickTime supports. Mobile Safari already supports CSS Animation which works like Flash; see “CSS Animation Coming to Safari, Already in iPhone. Less Dependence on Flash?” http://bit.ly/5A15v. Native iPhone apps can already use Core Animation.

    I suspect we’ll know lots more about all of this come June, with Apple’s World Wide Developers Conference and the announcement of version 3.0 of the iPhone’s operating system.

  31. I have been using the iPhone 2G for a while now and do a fair amount of surfing on it. The only time I miss Flash is when someone twitters a link to a flv file. Having said that some people ‘still’ link to wmv content. IMHO Flash is a massive resource hog and having it on the iPhone could have a massive impact on performance (especially since the browser supports multiple ‘tabs’).
    The other issue with Flash is that so called ‘designers’ use it to create website monstrosities with weird navigation and large, fixed-width layouts that would be almost impossible to use on a small screen.
    By not giving web designers the crutch of Flash it forces them to be more creative when delivering content to the iPhone resulting in better use of alternative technologies such as CSS/JS including AJAX which tend to require far less bandwidth. I shudder to think of web developers being able to create Flash ‘experiences’ for my iPhone and hope it never happens…

  32. I have been using the iPhone 2G for a while now and do a fair amount of surfing on it. The only time I miss Flash is when someone twitters a link to a flv file. Having said that some people ‘still’ link to wmv content. IMHO Flash is a massive resource hog and having it on the iPhone could have a massive impact on performance (especially since the browser supports multiple ‘tabs’).
    The other issue with Flash is that so called ‘designers’ use it to create website monstrosities with weird navigation and large, fixed-width layouts that would be almost impossible to use on a small screen.
    By not giving web designers the crutch of Flash it forces them to be more creative when delivering content to the iPhone resulting in better use of alternative technologies such as CSS/JS including AJAX which tend to require far less bandwidth. I shudder to think of web developers being able to create Flash ‘experiences’ for my iPhone and hope it never happens…

  33. Abhishek – And we’ll be able to disagree for quite some time if TechCrunch is correct that it won’t be available on any of those phones until 2010. They used the word Vaporware :-)

  34. Abhishek – And we’ll be able to disagree for quite some time if TechCrunch is correct that it won’t be available on any of those phones until 2010. They used the word Vaporware :-)

  35. PXLated I dont think flash is _critical_ either. But IMHO that does not warrant it being forcefully absent from the browsing/using experience. Let the users have a choice to decide what they want or dont.

    It’s true that a lot of killer / popular web 2.0 sites manage without flash. Most video streaming sites use flash. Agreed, twitter may not use flash, but 15% of all tweets come from AIR clients like twhirl, tweet deck, snitter and the like. Yes It may not be critical. But blocking options in favor of what’s critical is Simply not the way to go.

    I will not get an iPhone if it doesnt support flash. There’s just so much available on swf/flv that not having it makes for enough loss to support an alternative like Nokia’s N97 or Palm Pre.

    I guess we’ll have to disagree and leave it at that

  36. PXLated I dont think flash is _critical_ either. But IMHO that does not warrant it being forcefully absent from the browsing/using experience. Let the users have a choice to decide what they want or dont.

    It’s true that a lot of killer / popular web 2.0 sites manage without flash. Most video streaming sites use flash. Agreed, twitter may not use flash, but 15% of all tweets come from AIR clients like twhirl, tweet deck, snitter and the like. Yes It may not be critical. But blocking options in favor of what’s critical is Simply not the way to go.

    I will not get an iPhone if it doesnt support flash. There’s just so much available on swf/flv that not having it makes for enough loss to support an alternative like Nokia’s N97 or Palm Pre.

    I guess we’ll have to disagree and leave it at that

  37. “…which keeps a lot of Web experiences from working.”

    If by web experiences you mean annoying Flash-based “rich” advertising… then you’re welcome to all the experiences you desire. ESPECIALLY on a portable device like the iPhone.

    I even keep Flash turned off by default on my desktop. Blocks 90% of the junky bandwidth-clogging CPU-sucking advertising.

  38. “…which keeps a lot of Web experiences from working.”

    If by web experiences you mean annoying Flash-based “rich” advertising… then you’re welcome to all the experiences you desire. ESPECIALLY on a portable device like the iPhone.

    I even keep Flash turned off by default on my desktop. Blocks 90% of the junky bandwidth-clogging CPU-sucking advertising.

  39. Abhishek – I guess we’ll have to just disagree. I don’t think Flash is critical. Yes, there are a few sites where it’s prominent but the vast majority not. And most hot Web-2.0 sites/tech don’t have/require it (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) nor do most eCommerce sites from good old Web-1.0. Macromedia/Adobe have been hyping Flash and how it’s the future since as long as I can remember (used to go to all the FlashForward conferences) so I take it all with a grain of salt.

  40. Abhishek – I guess we’ll have to just disagree. I don’t think Flash is critical. Yes, there are a few sites where it’s prominent but the vast majority not. And most hot Web-2.0 sites/tech don’t have/require it (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) nor do most eCommerce sites from good old Web-1.0. Macromedia/Adobe have been hyping Flash and how it’s the future since as long as I can remember (used to go to all the FlashForward conferences) so I take it all with a grain of salt.

Comments are closed.