Is California setup for a brain drain?

Texas Governor

Last week I got to meet Texas Governor Rick Perry (that’s a photo of him pointing to a picture on his office wall). The first thing he told me, after saying “I just Tweeted you” is “when are you going to move to Texas?”

Two years ago I would have laughed because California was definitely the best place to do a technology business. This year, though, it’s a little tougher to laugh at that suggestion.

Here’s why:

1. My two brother-in-laws, both engineers, are laid off and looking for work. If they found work in Texas, they’d move in a heartbeat.
2. Housing prices in Silicon Valley remain ridiculous. Yeah, on my street in Half Moon Bay there’s lots of houses for sale, but prices remain far higher than they are in Texas and other places in the world and over the hill in Palo Alto prices haven’t dropped at all.
3. The pull of VC money over on Sand Hill Road is dropping fast. Last night when I visited SmugMug’s offices CEO Don MacAskill told me he just hired some people with decades of experience and said “I never expected to be able to hire such talent.” If the stars of Silicon Valley are on the street looking for work, imagine what it’s like for regular everyday engineers.

But that’s just my stories. For California as a whole I’m sensing that the whole state is primed for a major brain drain.

Why? Our state is bankrupt. What was the response? Lay off a bunch of teachers. Our education system is already in the toilet, but this will make it worse. Other states, like Texas, that aren’t bankrupt and aren’t laying off teachers, are looking more and more attractive to parents. It’s that, or spend 10s of thousands on private schools.

There’s a general feeling that crime is getting worse. That’s part a PR problem due to four Oakland police officers getting killed last week, but how will we solve those problems if we don’t have any money to hire more cops, build more prisons, etc, etc? Callers to KGO radio yesterday made it sound like the crime problem is getting worse. Rubbed into the wound is the fact that as a state we’ve decided to stop spending money on education and I predict we’ll see the problem get even worse as uneducated kids hit the job market and find no one is willing to hire them. The crime rate is about to head up big time because of this.

Finally, entrepreneurs are figuring out that they can start companies elsewhere and do just fine. A month ago I visited Tatango up in Bellingham Washington. If you can start a startup in Bellingham you can start it anywhere. I have to admit that the small town life of Bellingham has many advantages for a startup. For one, your employees are going to be more loyal. For two, they will need less pay because housing costs 1/7th to 1/12th what it does in Palo Alto. For three, the whole community is vested in helping you out (they are the only tech startup in town).

In California’s defense, it’s still going to be hard for someone like me to leave because of the ecosystem that exists here, the weather, and generally the ability to ask anyone on the street what their Twitter address is and get back more than just a blank look, but the Texas Governor made it clear he was going to come after California’s entrepreneurs and what he’s offering workers and entrepreneurs is more and more attractive every day.

Is this a problem for California? Are we about to see a major brain drain? If we don’t fix the education problem and the economy doesn’t improve here soon to keep geeks from looking elsewhere, I’d say yes. I’m off to look at moving company stats. They are usually the first place to see evidence of a brain drain as people move out of state.

Are you seeing any evidence yet? Got family/friends/coworkers who’ve moved out of state?

204 thoughts on “Is California setup for a brain drain?

  1. I thought I'd chime in as someone who has the unique perspective of having started a business in Arizona in 2003, moved to CA soon after because my income skyrocketed, then moved out of CA three years later (to Texas) after seeing how horrifically anti-business it is.

    For starters, this article is obviously talking about tech, but if you look up the stats, the vast majority of millionaire entrepreneurs are in rather ordinary, non-tech businesses. So all this search for the next Silicon Valley seems quite silly to me.

    Our experience in Newport Beach, CA was disappointing. First of all, the weather is crap. Sorry but it is. If I'm paying millions to live in a modest house, I want warmth and sunshine. Chilly fog for half the year is totally unacceptable given the cost of living. The myth of “great weather” in CA really baffles me and must be the greatest publicity stunt ever pulled!

    Second, we were stunned and disappointed at the dining scene. Nothing but bland corporate- or Iranian-owned chain restaurants. The reason? Because CA makes it too burdensome and expensive for a talented, created, entrepreneurial chef to open a place. Taxes, insurance, workers comp, rents, etc. In the first month on San Antonio we found more and better restaurants and wine bars than three years in Southern California – that's saying a LOT.

    And biggest of all is how FIERCELY anti-business the state is. As an entrepreneur, you are considered evil and are requested to take care of every lazy piece of garbage in the state, even if you're not doing well. And the CA FTB is notoriously worse than the IRS in abuses of power and collecting taxes.

    What I've figured out is this: People who say CA “isn't that bad” simply don't know any better. If you've eaten garbage all your life, you have no idea what good food tastes like, and therefore can't understand why anyone would go to a fine-dining restaurant. The same is true of CA entrepreneurs and business owners. You really have no idea how bad you have it and how much better things are elsewhere.

    As for us, we're thrilled to be back in a warm climate (not the lousy gray fog), to have a great selection of restaurants and wine bars, to have FRIENDLY neighbors, and to meet REAL entrepreneurs with real tangible businesses, not a bunch of posers who talk a big game but who own nothing! Oh yeah, and to be in a place devoid of the horrific 40×80 lots, the same ones even millionaires are forced to live on in CA!

  2. Even the heavily biased UN Council on Climate Control has dismissed the “rising sea levels” theory as quack junk science. Give it a rest already – coastal CA isn't going anywhere.

  3. Listen I am one of those highly educated brains that left for Texas during the housing boom back in 2007, now 21/2 years later Iam packing and going back to California, I dont care if I have to go collecting aluminum cans for survival, nobody with education and brains will ever want to live with this bunch of confederate rednecks and hellish weather, besides this place is dead depressing, so I beg you to bare the hard time, it will be over soon, dont be another statistic of Californians wanting to go back home. By the way higher education in Cali is 100 times better than in Texas, even a misserable Cal State Univ. will be sup[erior to A&M or any other Texan Univ.

  4. “Why? Our state is bankrupt. What was the response? Lay off a bunch of teachers. ” – if you study carefully the history of California education, you will recognize one distinct pattern, in regular intervals the teachers and adminstrators claim they need more money, money is always eventually given, lots of it; however, no amount of money has ever succeeded in notably improving the education quality; a closer inspection will reveal that the schools that take the stats down belong to districts where the family structure has eroded to five kids to one grandmother, with the actual mother and father being high schools dropout who have gone awol into a world of crime and drugs. Meanwhile, repeatedly schools with intact families and parents who “volunteer” their time, and money “directly to the school, not in cash, but in actual supplies” do well. Time and time again, you will continue to read that x administrator has pocketed the sorely needed funds. The only fix for the schools is to fix the families, by “enforcing” “existing” laws, however our culture of lawsuits will always prevent this from happening. Essentially, California has rendered itself powerless to utter the words “straighten up and fly right.”

    Our education system is already in the toilet, but this will make it worse. Other states, like Texas, that aren’t bankrupt and aren’t laying off teachers, are looking more and more attractive to parents. It’s that, or spend 10s of thousands on private schools.

  5. I grew up in San Pedro near Los Angeles, my wife and very young children moved to Austin 2 years ago and we love it. There is affordable housing, good schools and universities, especially University of Texas at Austin. Michael Dell started Dell Computers from his dorm at UT Austin. Also clean air and water, friendly people, light traffic compared to L.A., low crime, abundant parks, green city, lots of family oriented festivals and a very athletic and outdoor lifestyle.

    There is a substantial high tech sector in Austin. Some high tech companies that are present here are Dell, AMD, Intel, Apple, IBM, Sun Microsystems, Freescale Semiconductor, National Instruments, Applied Materials, Samsung Semiconductor, Silicon Labs, Google and many others.

    We sold our puny 1,300 sq. ft. in Carson, near Los Angeles, for a whopping $575k and bought a 3,400 sq. ft. in southwest Austin for $312k. We’re about a 15 minute drive away from downtown. All 3 elementary schools in our area are rated exemplary. The elementary schools that our kids would have attended in Carson barely made an “acceptable” rating.

    California’s business environment is hostile to business compared to Texas. Here are some state level taxing comparisons.

    California Texas
    Top Personal Income Tax 10.3% 0%
    Top Individual Capital Gains Tax 10.3% 0%
    Individual interest income 10.3% 0%
    Top Corporate Income Tax 8.84% 4.5%
    Top Corporate Capital Gains Tax 8.84% 4.5%
    Gasoline Tax(per gallon) $.487 $.20
    I believe now the gasoline tax is 68.7 cents/gallon under the recently passed California budget.

    Then there are costs associated with a complex business regulatory system and government business policies in California.

    Currently unemployment in Austin-Round Rock is about 6.3% compared to San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara at 10%. Housing is definitely cheaper, around 60% to 65% cheaper per square foot but salaries are lower for comparable engineering jobs by anywhere from 10% to 20%. But despite the lower salaries mitigated by lower taxes, cheaper gasoline, lower grocery prices, etc., higher quality of life coupled with a pro-business and pro-growth environment make Texas and other states very appealing for business start ups and established businesses as well.

    Yes, I believe economic reality for any business in California is causing businesses to relocate out of California and induce highly skilled workers to follow thereby causing a brain drain.

  6. I grew up in San Pedro near Los Angeles, my wife and very young children moved to Austin 2 years ago and we love it. There is affordable housing, good schools and universities, especially University of Texas at Austin. Michael Dell started Dell Computers from his dorm at UT Austin. Also clean air and water, friendly people, light traffic compared to L.A., low crime, abundant parks, green city, lots of family oriented festivals and a very athletic and outdoor lifestyle.

    There is a substantial high tech sector in Austin. Some high tech companies that are present here are Dell, AMD, Intel, Apple, IBM, Sun Microsystems, Freescale Semiconductor, National Instruments, Applied Materials, Samsung Semiconductor, Silicon Labs, Google and many others.

    We sold our puny 1,300 sq. ft. in Carson, near Los Angeles, for a whopping $575k and bought a 3,400 sq. ft. in southwest Austin for $312k. We’re about a 15 minute drive away from downtown. All 3 elementary schools in our area are rated exemplary. The elementary schools that our kids would have attended in Carson barely made an “acceptable” rating.

    California’s business environment is hostile to business compared to Texas. Here are some state level taxing comparisons.

    California Texas
    Top Personal Income Tax 10.3% 0%
    Top Individual Capital Gains Tax 10.3% 0%
    Individual interest income 10.3% 0%
    Top Corporate Income Tax 8.84% 4.5%
    Top Corporate Capital Gains Tax 8.84% 4.5%
    Gasoline Tax(per gallon) $.487 $.20
    I believe now the gasoline tax is 68.7 cents/gallon under the recently passed California budget.

    Then there are costs associated with a complex business regulatory system and government business policies in California.

    Currently unemployment in Austin-Round Rock is about 6.3% compared to San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara at 10%. Housing is definitely cheaper, around 60% to 65% cheaper per square foot but salaries are lower for comparable engineering jobs by anywhere from 10% to 20%. But despite the lower salaries mitigated by lower taxes, cheaper gasoline, lower grocery prices, etc., higher quality of life coupled with a pro-business and pro-growth environment make Texas and other states very appealing for business start ups and established businesses as well.

    Yes, I believe economic reality for any business in California is causing businesses to relocate out of California and induce highly skilled workers to follow thereby causing a brain drain.

  7. Dennis T Cheung says:

    It appears you’re unfamiliar with how California is governed. In California, (comparatively speaking) much of the financial decisions are made by The People – through propositions.

    The reason this is happening is because of the logjam in Sacramento. Nearly all decision-making for every part of state and local government is centralized in Sacramento. School budgets and governance? Sacramento. Road construction? Sacramento. Building on your property within a certain number of miles from the coastline? Sacramento, not your local government controls it. Utility rates (other than municipal utility districts)? Sacramento. Smog abatement? Sacramento mandates state-owned “air quality management districts” instead of county-owned “air pollution control districts” here in Southern Cal.
    We could return control and funding ability to local communities, but that would deprive the control freaks in Sacramento of their power.
    As Ken T Partridge said, we’d love to split up, but water (you have it, we want it) keeps us together.

  8. Dennis T Cheung says:

    It appears you’re unfamiliar with how California is governed. In California, (comparatively speaking) much of the financial decisions are made by The People – through propositions.

    The reason this is happening is because of the logjam in Sacramento. Nearly all decision-making for every part of state and local government is centralized in Sacramento. School budgets and governance? Sacramento. Road construction? Sacramento. Building on your property within a certain number of miles from the coastline? Sacramento, not your local government controls it. Utility rates (other than municipal utility districts)? Sacramento. Smog abatement? Sacramento mandates state-owned “air quality management districts” instead of county-owned “air pollution control districts” here in Southern Cal.
    We could return control and funding ability to local communities, but that would deprive the control freaks in Sacramento of their power.
    As Ken T Partridge said, we’d love to split up, but water (you have it, we want it) keeps us together.

  9. Dennis T Cheung, the problem is not revenue, but spending. It’s irresponsible and this is why I said Socialism/Liberalism has to be funded as it can’t stand on it’s own.

    It collapses when they run out of other people’s money to fund ever expanding and irresponsbile promises. In this case and every case, “other people’s money” is our money and the burden falls on the most productive.

  10. Dennis T Cheung, the problem is not revenue, but spending. It’s irresponsible and this is why I said Socialism/Liberalism has to be funded as it can’t stand on it’s own.

    It collapses when they run out of other people’s money to fund ever expanding and irresponsbile promises. In this case and every case, “other people’s money” is our money and the burden falls on the most productive.

  11. Northern California gripes. Things are great so far in Southern California. Thats why (down here at least) we would love to break off, we only need you for the water.

  12. Northern California gripes. Things are great so far in Southern California. Thats why (down here at least) we would love to break off, we only need you for the water.

  13. So the whole state will collapse under it’s own weight as the liberal lawmakers have made laws that promise tens of billions of dollars of future cash flows to various entitlements without any idea how they will pay for it.

    It appears you’re unfamiliar with how California is governed. In California, (comparatively speaking) much of the financial decisions are made by The People – through propositions.

    So as much as politicians would be an easy scape goat, the reality is that in California, the budget is decided by The People.

    Some have cited Proposition 13, as one of the root causes of California’s fiscal instability. Imagine – 4 neighbors living side by side in similar houses. One pays $1,300 a year in Property Tax, the next one pays $20,000, the next one pays $7000, and the last one pays $2,000. And then the giant office building next door pays $10,000.

    That’s Proposition 13. Proposed and passed by citizens. Opposed by politicians.

    http://www.democracyctr.org/library/california/prop13.htm

  14. So the whole state will collapse under it’s own weight as the liberal lawmakers have made laws that promise tens of billions of dollars of future cash flows to various entitlements without any idea how they will pay for it.

    It appears you’re unfamiliar with how California is governed. In California, (comparatively speaking) much of the financial decisions are made by The People – through propositions.

    So as much as politicians would be an easy scape goat, the reality is that in California, the budget is decided by The People.

    Some have cited Proposition 13, as one of the root causes of California’s fiscal instability. Imagine – 4 neighbors living side by side in similar houses. One pays $1,300 a year in Property Tax, the next one pays $20,000, the next one pays $7000, and the last one pays $2,000. And then the giant office building next door pays $10,000.

    That’s Proposition 13. Proposed and passed by citizens. Opposed by politicians.

    http://www.democracyctr.org/library/california/prop13.htm

  15. I think the problem liberals have with 1% paying 50% of the taxes is that it’s not enough.

    Liberals will not be satisfied until the top 10% pay 100% of the taxes, and the taxes are 10x greater than they are now, in order to fund a plethora of liberal-designated pipe dreams.

  16. I think the problem liberals have with 1% paying 50% of the taxes is that it’s not enough.

    Liberals will not be satisfied until the top 10% pay 100% of the taxes, and the taxes are 10x greater than they are now, in order to fund a plethora of liberal-designated pipe dreams.

  17. California is a mess because Socialism/Liberalism can only survive if it is funded. Basically, Socialism/Liberalism cannot stand on it’s own.

    So the whole state will collapse under it’s own weight as the liberal lawmakers have made laws that promise tens of billions of dollars of future cash flows to various entitlements without any idea how they will pay for it.

    New York is in the same predicament. In New York City, 1% of population pays 50% of the taxes. Despite what the liberals keep pounding into us that the “rich” don’t pay their fair share of taxes, even liberals have to admit at some point that this is a problem.

  18. California is a mess because Socialism/Liberalism can only survive if it is funded. Basically, Socialism/Liberalism cannot stand on it’s own.

    So the whole state will collapse under it’s own weight as the liberal lawmakers have made laws that promise tens of billions of dollars of future cash flows to various entitlements without any idea how they will pay for it.

    New York is in the same predicament. In New York City, 1% of population pays 50% of the taxes. Despite what the liberals keep pounding into us that the “rich” don’t pay their fair share of taxes, even liberals have to admit at some point that this is a problem.

  19. Born in Hollywood (no, I’m not kidding), and grew up in Orange County. I’ve lived and worked in Orange and Ventura counties, plus spent a lot of time in the bay area. There are *lots* of things to like about California, but the business climate isn’t one of them.

    Long ago, California committed itself to being a big welfare state. To quote Margaret Thatcher, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” The money has run out. There’s only so much blood you can drain from those producing capital to provide from those simply consuming it. California has been able to been able to deal with the lack of economic freedom simply by having so much fuel to burn. The flame is flickering, the economy is stalling, the housing prices are still crazy.

    I’ve been in Austin for 11+ years now, and I love it. You can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting somebody from California. I do know a few that long wistfully for the nice weather, the beach, the mountains (all things I still miss a bit). However, most of us won’t trade that for a great quality of life, affordable housing, and strong economy.

  20. Born in Hollywood (no, I’m not kidding), and grew up in Orange County. I’ve lived and worked in Orange and Ventura counties, plus spent a lot of time in the bay area. There are *lots* of things to like about California, but the business climate isn’t one of them.

    Long ago, California committed itself to being a big welfare state. To quote Margaret Thatcher, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” The money has run out. There’s only so much blood you can drain from those producing capital to provide from those simply consuming it. California has been able to been able to deal with the lack of economic freedom simply by having so much fuel to burn. The flame is flickering, the economy is stalling, the housing prices are still crazy.

    I’ve been in Austin for 11+ years now, and I love it. You can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting somebody from California. I do know a few that long wistfully for the nice weather, the beach, the mountains (all things I still miss a bit). However, most of us won’t trade that for a great quality of life, affordable housing, and strong economy.

  21. Looking for affordable housing ( 4 bedroom, nice neighborhood, 1/4 acre, under $300,000), no hassle lifestyle ( average commutes under 20 minutes), creative community: check out http://www.smallerindiana.com and then check out Indy.

    With a small, but growing tech community http://www.techpoint.org, great universities, IU, IUPUI, Purdue, Notre Dame, and a pro business gov, maybe you should be looking to the Center of the US, to Indy…

  22. Looking for affordable housing ( 4 bedroom, nice neighborhood, 1/4 acre, under $300,000), no hassle lifestyle ( average commutes under 20 minutes), creative community: check out http://www.smallerindiana.com and then check out Indy.

    With a small, but growing tech community http://www.techpoint.org, great universities, IU, IUPUI, Purdue, Notre Dame, and a pro business gov, maybe you should be looking to the Center of the US, to Indy…

  23. As somebody who lives outside of Detroit, I wish that entrepreneurs would consider moving here. There is a ton of cheap vacant office space and home prices are at an all time low. If you can deal with the weather, it’s a wonderful opportunity. When was the last time that you actually had a “White Christmas”?

  24. As somebody who lives outside of Detroit, I wish that entrepreneurs would consider moving here. There is a ton of cheap vacant office space and home prices are at an all time low. If you can deal with the weather, it’s a wonderful opportunity. When was the last time that you actually had a “White Christmas”?

  25. This is where parsing your words gets important. Evolution as in small changes from an existing organism, yes. Of course, small changes occur as existing genes are selected from a gene pool. But this is a process of specialization, not something that creates something new.

    There is no proof of evolution causing a change from one thing to a totally different new thing. There are no fossils showing change from a fish to a land animal, or from a microorganism to a fish, from a land animal to a human, or anywhere inbetween. Nor is there any other solid scientific evidence.

    And last of all, as for any clue as to how life started in the first place, evolution has no answer. Theories are postulated, like a frankensteinish lighting bolt, or super space aliens, but these are just that — theories which have never been proven. Which theories, when considered by an open mind have the same flavor of fairytale that intelligent design does.

    This is the hilarity of those supporting evolution as fact, while deriding intelligent design as fiction — neither can be proven, neither can be reproduced, and both are a belief of the holder, not a fact.

  26. This is where parsing your words gets important. Evolution as in small changes from an existing organism, yes. Of course, small changes occur as existing genes are selected from a gene pool. But this is a process of specialization, not something that creates something new.

    There is no proof of evolution causing a change from one thing to a totally different new thing. There are no fossils showing change from a fish to a land animal, or from a microorganism to a fish, from a land animal to a human, or anywhere inbetween. Nor is there any other solid scientific evidence.

    And last of all, as for any clue as to how life started in the first place, evolution has no answer. Theories are postulated, like a frankensteinish lighting bolt, or super space aliens, but these are just that — theories which have never been proven. Which theories, when considered by an open mind have the same flavor of fairytale that intelligent design does.

    This is the hilarity of those supporting evolution as fact, while deriding intelligent design as fiction — neither can be proven, neither can be reproduced, and both are a belief of the holder, not a fact.

  27. @reardon There is abundant evidence of evolution, refereed, and otherwise validated. Again, check out the Enriquez talk at TED (previously linked). Life can indeed be synthesized. You are suffering from a severe cognitive disorder. Seek professional therapeutic intervention. –Ax

  28. @reardon There is abundant evidence of evolution, refereed, and otherwise validated. Again, check out the Enriquez talk at TED (previously linked). Life can indeed be synthesized. You are suffering from a severe cognitive disorder. Seek professional therapeutic intervention. –Ax

  29. @Alan Chamberlain – There is no evidence of evolution, Darwin’s version or otherwise. To teach otherwise is intellectual fraud. The postulated spontaneous generation of life from non-life is indoctrination of religious faith. Thou shalt not.

  30. @Alan Chamberlain – There is no evidence of evolution, Darwin’s version or otherwise. To teach otherwise is intellectual fraud. The postulated spontaneous generation of life from non-life is indoctrination of religious faith. Thou shalt not.

  31. There is no evidence whatsoever of a designer, intelligent or otherwise. To teach otherwise is intellectual fraud. The postulated inference of divine intervention is indoctrination of religious faith. Thou shalt not.

    –Ax

  32. There is no evidence whatsoever of a designer, intelligent or otherwise. To teach otherwise is intellectual fraud. The postulated inference of divine intervention is indoctrination of religious faith. Thou shalt not.

    –Ax

  33. @jbella..

    Whoa..Whoa…Whoa!!! Chill out there, pal. First, the minute you employ name-calling to defend your argument, it tells me you really don’t have a solid foundation on which to defend your position.

    Second, whenever I hear the word “believe” associated with some “theory”, I know the facts are weak. “Believing” something is not science.

    Third, you also get dismissed as being a rational thinker when you come to a conclusion based on no facts. Please show me anywhere in my comments that I don’t “believe” in Darwinism? Conversely, please show me anywhere in my comments where I said I “believe” in creationism. You can’t, because I never said either. See, this is the type of weak scientific thinking that gets some in trouble (see:Algore)–coming to a conclusion based on no evidence.

    You assume me to be religious, yet I’ve given you no concrete facts from which to draw that conclusion. Yes, there have been plenty of wars based on religion. I’m perfectly happy with those facts being brought up. And I in no way suggest that because Hitler based his “perfect race” goals on Darwinism, that the theory doesn’t hold water. I’m simply saying, just as you suggest with religion, teach the “good” with the “bad”. Jeez! Jump to conclusions much? Doesn’t make for a good scientist.

    Oh, and see what you did there? I said “Global Warming” and you replied with “climate change”. Odd how the terms have changed. “Cimate change” allows everything to be “explained”. I will happily concede that the climate is changing. Just has it has for the last 6,000, er, I mean, 6 billion years (or however old the Earth is. Don’t really care. I can’t do anything productive with that information). What I’ve seen no conclusive evidence of is that “man” is the current cause. And just because we can find a number of scientists that “agree”, doesn’t make it a fact. As the saying goes: “Science by consensus is not science”. That same statement can be applied to Darwinism, given there it has yet to proven conclusively from what Man evolved.

    I’m ambivilant on which “theory” ends up being right. What I am not ambivilant about is “protecting” our children from other lines of thinking.

    I’m happy to supply you plenty of scientific evidence or facts that call into question the “theory” of evolution and the beginning of life. Like the unbelievable scientific “fact” that life was somehow produced from non-life. As I’m sure you well know, scientific evidence has to be reproducable. Now, call me crazy, but has anyone, anywhere, in the history of intelligent man, been able to produce life from non-life forms? For me, that would move the needle much further towards evolution. So, what reproducable evidence do we have of that? Or what concrete evidence? Or how there is no fossil evidence of transitional forms of life. And that when questioned, the answer is something called “punctuated equlilibrium” (oooo..sounds complicated. We better accept it). When pressed to explain why we dont’ see evidence of continued evolution today, we are told there is, indeed, evidence! Look at the variations in finch beaks!!! Even better, look how many breeds of dogs man has produced! (nevermind the fact that in the end, they are, and do forever remain…dogs!)

    I could go on. Methinks, however, given the evidence of intolerance in your reply, it would be a futile exercise and we would not be willing to have a rational discussion on the topic. In fact, I think that rather than answering the questions I raised, you would come back with “yea!!?? Well what evidence do we have of intelligent design?”” Fair question…when we start debating intelligent design. But you chose to summarily dismiss it. So, now is the time to defend evolution by explaining some of the issues I raised. But thanks for being another example of my last statement in my previous post

    And to the person that suggest teaching “intelligent design” violates the First Amemdment, I would ask what specific religion is being established by doing so? Which is what the First Amendment prevents Congress from doing. Establishing religion (see:Church of England). It can’t solely be Christianity, because there are plenty of other relgions that posit that man was created.

  34. @jbella..

    Whoa..Whoa…Whoa!!! Chill out there, pal. First, the minute you employ name-calling to defend your argument, it tells me you really don’t have a solid foundation on which to defend your position.

    Second, whenever I hear the word “believe” associated with some “theory”, I know the facts are weak. “Believing” something is not science.

    Third, you also get dismissed as being a rational thinker when you come to a conclusion based on no facts. Please show me anywhere in my comments that I don’t “believe” in Darwinism? Conversely, please show me anywhere in my comments where I said I “believe” in creationism. You can’t, because I never said either. See, this is the type of weak scientific thinking that gets some in trouble (see:Algore)–coming to a conclusion based on no evidence.

    You assume me to be religious, yet I’ve given you no concrete facts from which to draw that conclusion. Yes, there have been plenty of wars based on religion. I’m perfectly happy with those facts being brought up. And I in no way suggest that because Hitler based his “perfect race” goals on Darwinism, that the theory doesn’t hold water. I’m simply saying, just as you suggest with religion, teach the “good” with the “bad”. Jeez! Jump to conclusions much? Doesn’t make for a good scientist.

    Oh, and see what you did there? I said “Global Warming” and you replied with “climate change”. Odd how the terms have changed. “Cimate change” allows everything to be “explained”. I will happily concede that the climate is changing. Just has it has for the last 6,000, er, I mean, 6 billion years (or however old the Earth is. Don’t really care. I can’t do anything productive with that information). What I’ve seen no conclusive evidence of is that “man” is the current cause. And just because we can find a number of scientists that “agree”, doesn’t make it a fact. As the saying goes: “Science by consensus is not science”. That same statement can be applied to Darwinism, given there it has yet to proven conclusively from what Man evolved.

    I’m ambivilant on which “theory” ends up being right. What I am not ambivilant about is “protecting” our children from other lines of thinking.

    I’m happy to supply you plenty of scientific evidence or facts that call into question the “theory” of evolution and the beginning of life. Like the unbelievable scientific “fact” that life was somehow produced from non-life. As I’m sure you well know, scientific evidence has to be reproducable. Now, call me crazy, but has anyone, anywhere, in the history of intelligent man, been able to produce life from non-life forms? For me, that would move the needle much further towards evolution. So, what reproducable evidence do we have of that? Or what concrete evidence? Or how there is no fossil evidence of transitional forms of life. And that when questioned, the answer is something called “punctuated equlilibrium” (oooo..sounds complicated. We better accept it). When pressed to explain why we dont’ see evidence of continued evolution today, we are told there is, indeed, evidence! Look at the variations in finch beaks!!! Even better, look how many breeds of dogs man has produced! (nevermind the fact that in the end, they are, and do forever remain…dogs!)

    I could go on. Methinks, however, given the evidence of intolerance in your reply, it would be a futile exercise and we would not be willing to have a rational discussion on the topic. In fact, I think that rather than answering the questions I raised, you would come back with “yea!!?? Well what evidence do we have of intelligent design?”” Fair question…when we start debating intelligent design. But you chose to summarily dismiss it. So, now is the time to defend evolution by explaining some of the issues I raised. But thanks for being another example of my last statement in my previous post

    And to the person that suggest teaching “intelligent design” violates the First Amemdment, I would ask what specific religion is being established by doing so? Which is what the First Amendment prevents Congress from doing. Establishing religion (see:Church of England). It can’t solely be Christianity, because there are plenty of other relgions that posit that man was created.

  35. > Programs are already threadbare, and yet they must be paid for.

    If these programs “must be paid for”, how do other states do without them?

    Yes, the “more money” folk always trot out teachers and police when they’re asking for more money.

    When they do that, they’re telling you that teachers and police are their lowest priority, that they’ll cut teachers and police to keep funding for other things.

    And CA keeps electing them.

  36. > Programs are already threadbare, and yet they must be paid for.

    If these programs “must be paid for”, how do other states do without them?

    Yes, the “more money” folk always trot out teachers and police when they’re asking for more money.

    When they do that, they’re telling you that teachers and police are their lowest priority, that they’ll cut teachers and police to keep funding for other things.

    And CA keeps electing them.

  37. I am the chairman of the Bellingham Angel Group and we invested in Tatango and continue to advise their management team. They were recently voted the best start-up company for 2008 in the County and deservedly so. I am surprised that we don’t see more tech companies moving up to the Bellingham area with its’ wonderful lifestyle and supportive attitude towards technology companies.

  38. I am the chairman of the Bellingham Angel Group and we invested in Tatango and continue to advise their management team. They were recently voted the best start-up company for 2008 in the County and deservedly so. I am surprised that we don’t see more tech companies moving up to the Bellingham area with its’ wonderful lifestyle and supportive attitude towards technology companies.

  39. I think there should be other theories taught besides evolution.

    Personally, I favor the Leprechaun theory. Clearly, we were waved into existence by leprechauns and the sooner we recognize this, the sooner we’ll find that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

    The expression “theory of evolution” refers to the notion that scientists don’t know how we evolved and here is the current idea of how it happened. There is also a theory of gravity and other phenomena.

    These theories will change as and when our understanding of the available evidence changes. But it does begin with evidence. And that is where the leprechaun theory fails.

  40. I think there should be other theories taught besides evolution.

    Personally, I favor the Leprechaun theory. Clearly, we were waved into existence by leprechauns and the sooner we recognize this, the sooner we’ll find that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

    The expression “theory of evolution” refers to the notion that scientists don’t know how we evolved and here is the current idea of how it happened. There is also a theory of gravity and other phenomena.

    These theories will change as and when our understanding of the available evidence changes. But it does begin with evidence. And that is where the leprechaun theory fails.

  41. California may have an education problem by letting a bunch of teachers go, but if you move to Texas, their plentiful teachers will try to teach your kids that the Earth is only 10,000 years old, that there’s no such thing as evolution, and that Jesus had as much to do with continental formation as tectonic shift (which, I believe, is a myth in Texas).

    Cali may be having problems – what’s new – but Texas is not your answer.

    Try Chicago. Seriously; the housing market isn’t *as* bad here, and people know what both Twitter and evolution are here.

  42. California may have an education problem by letting a bunch of teachers go, but if you move to Texas, their plentiful teachers will try to teach your kids that the Earth is only 10,000 years old, that there’s no such thing as evolution, and that Jesus had as much to do with continental formation as tectonic shift (which, I believe, is a myth in Texas).

    Cali may be having problems – what’s new – but Texas is not your answer.

    Try Chicago. Seriously; the housing market isn’t *as* bad here, and people know what both Twitter and evolution are here.

  43. What goes up, must come down and vice-versa.
    Arrogance and amnesia to free market principals is causing the decline of this state as is NJ, NY etc basically all the left states…the emergence of TX and NC will herald the re-emergence of free market beliefs long after the public will be tired of the Obama self righteousness..and see I told you so attitude.

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