Stuff you won’t see on American TV

While everyone else is watching videos about Paris Hilton or whoever else is the pop culture celebrity of the week there’s some really gripping stuff on YouTube. It’s not pretty. But why do people hate Americans? Watch this video and see. Why are we still in Iraq? What are we solving?

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Robert Scoble

As Startup Liaison for Rackspace, the Open Cloud Computing Company, Scoble travels the world looking for what's happening on the bleeding edge of technology for Rackspace's startup program. He's interviewed thousands of executives and technology innovators and reports what he learns in books ("The Age of Context," a book coauthored with Forbes author Shel Israel, has been released at http://amzn.to/AgeOfContext ), YouTube, and many social media sites where he's followed by millions of people. Best place to watch me is on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/RobertScoble

Comments

  1. power of journalism 2.0

    thx for the links, put a different perspective in life… the 95 degree weather in the Bay Area today doesn’t seem all that bad after all…

  2. power of journalism 2.0

    thx for the links, put a different perspective in life… the 95 degree weather in the Bay Area today doesn’t seem all that bad after all…

  3. You asked “Why are we still in Iraq? What are we solving?” Try to look at the bigger picture – Militant Islam hasn’t liked us for many years. Is it Bush? No, it’s our culture. And, it’s our freedom they don’t like. This isn’t a “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” because, by definition, they are against freedom.

    As JFK said in his inaugural address: “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

    This much we pledge—and more.”

    And it’s not only about Iraq. Even though the liberals ignore the rest of the middle east, the real issue is the whole of the middle east. And Europe. Look up the birth rates in Europe these days. Europe is going downhill fast. It’s a hollowing out of their culture. The number one name for babies in England now is Mohammed. (Thomas was number one.)

    Bush said after 9/11 that this war will be like no other. (The liberals keep trying to tell us that this is like every other war and that we’re the bad guys.) Bush also said he was going after terrorism. A big part of terrorism is Iran. Look at Hezbollah in Syria – funded by Iran (despite what Nancy Pelosi says). Look at Hamas (and what is happening as we speak in Palestine – funded by Iran (despite the fact that the liberals ignore this.) Look at the Taliban – funded by Iran.

    The idea is to get some semblance of order in Iraq and the middle east. We have already seen Libya give up their nuke program.

    The war is hard enough by itself. But we have liberals who undermine our attempts to address these problems. All of this “the rest of the world hates us”, “the US is evil”, the troops are bad (Abu Ghraib), trying to stop terrorism here by surveillance, CIA operations, etc., etc, is all about undermining our efforts. We have the war to deal with and a strange domestic enemy whose rhetoric is exactly like our enemy.

    We have it good here because, as a country, we have worked for it and many, many people have died. As JFK said, we want others to benefit from this. That’s why we fight.

  4. You asked “Why are we still in Iraq? What are we solving?” Try to look at the bigger picture – Militant Islam hasn’t liked us for many years. Is it Bush? No, it’s our culture. And, it’s our freedom they don’t like. This isn’t a “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” because, by definition, they are against freedom.

    As JFK said in his inaugural address: “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

    This much we pledge—and more.”

    And it’s not only about Iraq. Even though the liberals ignore the rest of the middle east, the real issue is the whole of the middle east. And Europe. Look up the birth rates in Europe these days. Europe is going downhill fast. It’s a hollowing out of their culture. The number one name for babies in England now is Mohammed. (Thomas was number one.)

    Bush said after 9/11 that this war will be like no other. (The liberals keep trying to tell us that this is like every other war and that we’re the bad guys.) Bush also said he was going after terrorism. A big part of terrorism is Iran. Look at Hezbollah in Syria – funded by Iran (despite what Nancy Pelosi says). Look at Hamas (and what is happening as we speak in Palestine – funded by Iran (despite the fact that the liberals ignore this.) Look at the Taliban – funded by Iran.

    The idea is to get some semblance of order in Iraq and the middle east. We have already seen Libya give up their nuke program.

    The war is hard enough by itself. But we have liberals who undermine our attempts to address these problems. All of this “the rest of the world hates us”, “the US is evil”, the troops are bad (Abu Ghraib), trying to stop terrorism here by surveillance, CIA operations, etc., etc, is all about undermining our efforts. We have the war to deal with and a strange domestic enemy whose rhetoric is exactly like our enemy.

    We have it good here because, as a country, we have worked for it and many, many people have died. As JFK said, we want others to benefit from this. That’s why we fight.

  5. Al: and, you might look into why else they hate us. My wife, when she was a child, was bombed. By American bombs. She grew up in Iran.

    It’s obvious you didn’t watch the video. Thanks for writing.

  6. Al: and, you might look into why else they hate us. My wife, when she was a child, was bombed. By American bombs. She grew up in Iran.

    It’s obvious you didn’t watch the video. Thanks for writing.

  7. Nobody I talk to here in Quebec or Ontario really hates Americans. There are some, but they are uneducated or hate everybody including Russians and every other ethnicity too.

    Most of the companies here export to the USA, so we really have no reason to hate Americans. Americans even use our vast hydro power here in the North East.

  8. Nobody I talk to here in Quebec or Ontario really hates Americans. There are some, but they are uneducated or hate everybody including Russians and every other ethnicity too.

    Most of the companies here export to the USA, so we really have no reason to hate Americans. Americans even use our vast hydro power here in the North East.

  9. @4 Still and all, that’s not why they hate us. They would hate us even if we didn’t allegedly bomb your wife when she was a child. The bombing has little to nothing to do with why they hate us. (Ironically, the more we hit back, the more they fear us. They are all simply waiting for the day we turn tail and run. They will the be proven right)

    Sadly, you won’t see this on American TV either

    I guess you didn’t bother to see the other side of the story….

  10. @4 Still and all, that’s not why they hate us. They would hate us even if we didn’t allegedly bomb your wife when she was a child. The bombing has little to nothing to do with why they hate us. (Ironically, the more we hit back, the more they fear us. They are all simply waiting for the day we turn tail and run. They will the be proven right)

    Sadly, you won’t see this on American TV either

    I guess you didn’t bother to see the other side of the story….

  11. LayZ: I see the positive side of the story every day. After all, our administration still wants us to stay there and is still selling this war to all of us. Your video was a nice try in convincing us that everything is hunky dory there. Might work on the folks who are over on one of the gossip sites, but doesn’t work on me.

    Have you ever talked with someone on the other side of our guns and bombs? Fear isn’t the word they use. The video I posted will give you many more insights.

    But, oh well, the next terrorists can’t yet get out of Iraq. Someday they will be able to, though. I guess that’s going to be a problem for my son’s generation to deal with.

  12. LayZ: I see the positive side of the story every day. After all, our administration still wants us to stay there and is still selling this war to all of us. Your video was a nice try in convincing us that everything is hunky dory there. Might work on the folks who are over on one of the gossip sites, but doesn’t work on me.

    Have you ever talked with someone on the other side of our guns and bombs? Fear isn’t the word they use. The video I posted will give you many more insights.

    But, oh well, the next terrorists can’t yet get out of Iraq. Someday they will be able to, though. I guess that’s going to be a problem for my son’s generation to deal with.

  13. I’m with Al. And where is it written everyone has to like us and furthermore why should we even care? War isn’t pretty but in this case the alternative is a whole lot worse.

  14. I’m with Al. And where is it written everyone has to like us and furthermore why should we even care? War isn’t pretty but in this case the alternative is a whole lot worse.

  15. “But why do people hate Americans”

    You should also define ‘hate’ – Offer someone who ‘hates’ america(ns) a green card and see if they say ‘No’.

    You should define ‘people’ – Of the 1 billion ‘people’ in India i would think less than a few 1000s would ‘hate’ America as per the above definition.

  16. “But why do people hate Americans”

    You should also define ‘hate’ – Offer someone who ‘hates’ america(ns) a green card and see if they say ‘No’.

    You should define ‘people’ – Of the 1 billion ‘people’ in India i would think less than a few 1000s would ‘hate’ America as per the above definition.

  17. That was so sad and moving. You’re right, footage like this should be on TV. Maybe with enough attention it will.

  18. That was so sad and moving. You’re right, footage like this should be on TV. Maybe with enough attention it will.

  19. That’s gripping and tragic. Thanks for the link. By the way, both links in your post are to the same video. Did you have something special in mind about YouTube?

  20. That’s gripping and tragic. Thanks for the link. By the way, both links in your post are to the same video. Did you have something special in mind about YouTube?

  21. Robert, I did watch the video and it was well done – professionally done and I wonder who funded them all. It was so well done that the story is about the people behind it and their intentions more than the story itself.

    Please watch this and you can see my skepticism over the intentions of the people behind “Hometown Baghdad”. http://www.seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv

    The difference is Pallywood shows how the media is manipulated and “Hometown Baghdad” is a polished form of propaganda.

    “Hometown Baghdad” is designed to sway opinion. (Even the name and some of the images that look like Southern California/Western US are designed to connect with skeptical American viewers.) You have to assume there are hundreds of stories like this and, as we know, there are thousands who died horrible deaths under Sadaam. And many are dying in Gaza and Lebanon now because of Iranian and Syrian work.

    The people behind this do it to sway opinion against the war and to undermine our efforts.

    What is so sad is they ignore the issues around it and they have no plan for helping the people. Just leaving creates many other problems.

    The whole Middle East has to be put into context. Just throwing up our hands and leaving is really a kindergarten response to a complicated set of problems.

    Finally, I don’t mean to be difficult, but I am passionate about these issues and the media does a horrible job of putting things into context and trying to hide their biases. We all suffer because we have been stuck with too much propaganda and not enough context to help us make decisions. You have to really go deep to sort through everything in order to make decisions on what is right and wrong and how to plan for the future. p.s. Congratulations on the news of the baby!

  22. Robert, I did watch the video and it was well done – professionally done and I wonder who funded them all. It was so well done that the story is about the people behind it and their intentions more than the story itself.

    Please watch this and you can see my skepticism over the intentions of the people behind “Hometown Baghdad”. http://www.seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv

    The difference is Pallywood shows how the media is manipulated and “Hometown Baghdad” is a polished form of propaganda.

    “Hometown Baghdad” is designed to sway opinion. (Even the name and some of the images that look like Southern California/Western US are designed to connect with skeptical American viewers.) You have to assume there are hundreds of stories like this and, as we know, there are thousands who died horrible deaths under Sadaam. And many are dying in Gaza and Lebanon now because of Iranian and Syrian work.

    The people behind this do it to sway opinion against the war and to undermine our efforts.

    What is so sad is they ignore the issues around it and they have no plan for helping the people. Just leaving creates many other problems.

    The whole Middle East has to be put into context. Just throwing up our hands and leaving is really a kindergarten response to a complicated set of problems.

    Finally, I don’t mean to be difficult, but I am passionate about these issues and the media does a horrible job of putting things into context and trying to hide their biases. We all suffer because we have been stuck with too much propaganda and not enough context to help us make decisions. You have to really go deep to sort through everything in order to make decisions on what is right and wrong and how to plan for the future. p.s. Congratulations on the news of the baby!

  23. Al,

    Regarding your last post; going to war with Iraq in the first place was in fact the kindergarten response to a complicated set of problems.

    Cheers,
    Graham

  24. Al,

    Regarding your last post; going to war with Iraq in the first place was in fact the kindergarten response to a complicated set of problems.

    Cheers,
    Graham

  25. The US is a military empire with troups in 120-140 countries around the world. The US dollar has been the worlds trade currency, except for the US everyone has been forced to buy dollars from the US before they can buy anything.

    Of course there is resistance to the US acting like a bully and occupying power. And abusing the special status given the US dollar by simply printing dollars whenever there is a bill to be paid.

    But I see very little hatred of americans as individual human beings.

  26. The US is a military empire with troups in 120-140 countries around the world. The US dollar has been the worlds trade currency, except for the US everyone has been forced to buy dollars from the US before they can buy anything.

    Of course there is resistance to the US acting like a bully and occupying power. And abusing the special status given the US dollar by simply printing dollars whenever there is a bill to be paid.

    But I see very little hatred of americans as individual human beings.

  27. @Al

    “The number one name for babies in England now is Mohammed.”
    – That’s just plain racist, man. There went your credibility. Your entire tirade — INVALIDATED.

  28. @Al

    “The number one name for babies in England now is Mohammed.”
    – That’s just plain racist, man. There went your credibility. Your entire tirade — INVALIDATED.

  29. Graham: based on what was known in 2003, going to war was the best option available. It’s never easy but sometimes the cost of inaction is an even worse outcome in the future.

    Robert: it’s interesting you blame the US troops for this guy’s uncle’s death, but not the non-state actors who ignore the Geneva Conventions every day in Iraq, killing Americans and Iraqis alike. They are the reason soldiers are on a hair-trigger alert for any vehicles speeding towards them.

    Also, I know you value this for the personal story it tells. But get some perspective. War’s never fair. The woman in the video says she now has to consider America an enemy because it killed a relative of hers. By that token Japan ought to be crawling with enemies of America! The difference is that the Japanese have managed to move beyond the eye-for-an-eye culture that still permeates the Middle East.

    The Middle East in general, and Iraq in particular, is in the state it is in because the moderates have long since left the stage and politics is conducted by religious nutcases and psychos with guns. I don’t see this lady blaming the twisted social fabric that produced this state of affairs. Nope, much easier to blame America.

  30. Graham: based on what was known in 2003, going to war was the best option available. It’s never easy but sometimes the cost of inaction is an even worse outcome in the future.

    Robert: it’s interesting you blame the US troops for this guy’s uncle’s death, but not the non-state actors who ignore the Geneva Conventions every day in Iraq, killing Americans and Iraqis alike. They are the reason soldiers are on a hair-trigger alert for any vehicles speeding towards them.

    Also, I know you value this for the personal story it tells. But get some perspective. War’s never fair. The woman in the video says she now has to consider America an enemy because it killed a relative of hers. By that token Japan ought to be crawling with enemies of America! The difference is that the Japanese have managed to move beyond the eye-for-an-eye culture that still permeates the Middle East.

    The Middle East in general, and Iraq in particular, is in the state it is in because the moderates have long since left the stage and politics is conducted by religious nutcases and psychos with guns. I don’t see this lady blaming the twisted social fabric that produced this state of affairs. Nope, much easier to blame America.

  31. And oh — about your question about what the US is solving in Iraq: the way I see it, right now it’s trying to make sure a bloodbath doesn’t happen when it leaves. Although it’ll probably withdraw to Kurdistan and Southern Iraq in the end and the bloodbath will happen anyway, complete with the usual radical propaganda about they “drove the Great Satan away”.

  32. And oh — about your question about what the US is solving in Iraq: the way I see it, right now it’s trying to make sure a bloodbath doesn’t happen when it leaves. Although it’ll probably withdraw to Kurdistan and Southern Iraq in the end and the bloodbath will happen anyway, complete with the usual radical propaganda about they “drove the Great Satan away”.

  33. This is interesting. I remember Steve Jobs saying in his interview together with Bill Gates that we should be happy for our peace. That we would all not be here with all our gadgets and computers if it where not for the peace. We should never forget, that there would have been a much different ending to the 2nd world war without the British and US armed forces. Some times the liberals tend to forget what happened in Europe and not to far back in Bosnia. There again it was as the US armed forces that their word with the action. Europe is in a mind boggling numb senses these days but they are slowly understanding how many peoples lives it to achieve to where we are today. Europe and the US (in 1860) was a tribal world as well. Tribes fight over and over as the Spartans did in Greece against other Greek. But what they found out is that everybody succeeds more if the individual can succeed more as well.

  34. This is interesting. I remember Steve Jobs saying in his interview together with Bill Gates that we should be happy for our peace. That we would all not be here with all our gadgets and computers if it where not for the peace. We should never forget, that there would have been a much different ending to the 2nd world war without the British and US armed forces. Some times the liberals tend to forget what happened in Europe and not to far back in Bosnia. There again it was as the US armed forces that their word with the action. Europe is in a mind boggling numb senses these days but they are slowly understanding how many peoples lives it to achieve to where we are today. Europe and the US (in 1860) was a tribal world as well. Tribes fight over and over as the Spartans did in Greece against other Greek. But what they found out is that everybody succeeds more if the individual can succeed more as well.

  35. We’re still in Iraq because this administration doesn’t have the maturity to admit they’re making a mistake and rectify it. They act like the posterboys for “My mind’s already made up; don’t confuse me with the facts.”

    Dry drunk behavior all the way.

  36. We’re still in Iraq because this administration doesn’t have the maturity to admit they’re making a mistake and rectify it. They act like the posterboys for “My mind’s already made up; don’t confuse me with the facts.”

    Dry drunk behavior all the way.

  37. Neil, caring for European culture is not racist. Read up on what is happening. Just today, I heard that France is requiring more tests for immigrants – with the idea of filtering people out.

    The US has the best record of assimilating people – the melting pot. Europe’s record isn’t as good and they have the added burden of birth rates that are well below the replacement level. The multiculturalists push a mosaic, which will ultimately destroy the normal culture. This birthrate problem will cause European countries to shrink. (Just do a search on “Europe” and “birthrate” and you’ll see that side of it.) Since multiculturalists don’t like the melting pot, the Europe that Europeans know (and we know) will change dramatically. One change is the inclusion of sharia law, which will start to supersede normal laws until the normal laws are not operative . In many ways sharia law is opposed to western law. The multiculturalists are afraid to say anything, but I can’t see anything wrong with supporting one’s culture. So, I’m not being racist when I say it’s okay to support one’s culture by limiting immigration and requiring immigrants to adhere to the rules and assimilate. I don’t know where you are from, but I suspect many readers are from California and I doubt sharia law will be welcomed in California.

    To me, it’s sort of funny to watch liberals embrace multiculturalism when, at some level, they must know that sharia law will outlaw them. Follow the politics in Europe. In many ways, things are moving to the right. (No EU Constitution, various elections, etc.)

    What is happening in the Mideast is part of the issue too. So please get over the racist idea. Here’s a link to a discussion on “The Collapse of Europe”. http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/687cbfbc-0d3e-4949-a5f6-080b5fa8fba8

    There is a lot going on in the world and all the Democrats can come up with is inventing a scandal about eight US Attorneys as a way to get at Bush.

  38. Neil, caring for European culture is not racist. Read up on what is happening. Just today, I heard that France is requiring more tests for immigrants – with the idea of filtering people out.

    The US has the best record of assimilating people – the melting pot. Europe’s record isn’t as good and they have the added burden of birth rates that are well below the replacement level. The multiculturalists push a mosaic, which will ultimately destroy the normal culture. This birthrate problem will cause European countries to shrink. (Just do a search on “Europe” and “birthrate” and you’ll see that side of it.) Since multiculturalists don’t like the melting pot, the Europe that Europeans know (and we know) will change dramatically. One change is the inclusion of sharia law, which will start to supersede normal laws until the normal laws are not operative . In many ways sharia law is opposed to western law. The multiculturalists are afraid to say anything, but I can’t see anything wrong with supporting one’s culture. So, I’m not being racist when I say it’s okay to support one’s culture by limiting immigration and requiring immigrants to adhere to the rules and assimilate. I don’t know where you are from, but I suspect many readers are from California and I doubt sharia law will be welcomed in California.

    To me, it’s sort of funny to watch liberals embrace multiculturalism when, at some level, they must know that sharia law will outlaw them. Follow the politics in Europe. In many ways, things are moving to the right. (No EU Constitution, various elections, etc.)

    What is happening in the Mideast is part of the issue too. So please get over the racist idea. Here’s a link to a discussion on “The Collapse of Europe”. http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/687cbfbc-0d3e-4949-a5f6-080b5fa8fba8

    There is a lot going on in the world and all the Democrats can come up with is inventing a scandal about eight US Attorneys as a way to get at Bush.

  39. Al, sure it’s _possible_ that Europe would have Sharia law someday, but it’s not very likely because you assume that all Muslims will want Sharia, which isn’t true. Also, immigration patterns will change as governments wise up to the fact that they don’t want certain kinds of people entering the country.

  40. Al, sure it’s _possible_ that Europe would have Sharia law someday, but it’s not very likely because you assume that all Muslims will want Sharia, which isn’t true. Also, immigration patterns will change as governments wise up to the fact that they don’t want certain kinds of people entering the country.

  41. @ Al
    Speaking of rhetoric you seem to have some of your own. The most popular name in the UK last year was Jack then Thomas then Joshua. I could go on… Mohammed was the 22nd most popular name last year up from 23 in 2005. You have a view that’s entirely valid but do your research. (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp)

    @ Robert
    I don’t think people hate America I think they are disappointed. They see a nation that has the biggest and best of everything. A country that sent it’s men to to die in Europe TWICE because it was the right thing to do. A country that sent a man to the Moon because it wanted to (I know there were deeper political motivations but bear with me here).

    Yet they also see a country that has Guantanamo Bay, extraordinary rendition and a country that invaded another country under false pretences. It’s easy to say from the outside but I think it’s a feeling akin to seeing a really good and inspiring friend make the wrong choices

    What was the last great American project?

  42. @ Al
    Speaking of rhetoric you seem to have some of your own. The most popular name in the UK last year was Jack then Thomas then Joshua. I could go on… Mohammed was the 22nd most popular name last year up from 23 in 2005. You have a view that’s entirely valid but do your research. (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp)

    @ Robert
    I don’t think people hate America I think they are disappointed. They see a nation that has the biggest and best of everything. A country that sent it’s men to to die in Europe TWICE because it was the right thing to do. A country that sent a man to the Moon because it wanted to (I know there were deeper political motivations but bear with me here).

    Yet they also see a country that has Guantanamo Bay, extraordinary rendition and a country that invaded another country under false pretences. It’s easy to say from the outside but I think it’s a feeling akin to seeing a really good and inspiring friend make the wrong choices

    What was the last great American project?

  43. @Gareth

    Al was wrong about Mohammed being the most popular name, but you and Chris Brennan seem to be a tad off the mark as well. According to the Times[1], Mohammed is the 2nd-most popular name if variations in spelling (Muhammad, Mohamed, Mohammad, etc) are taken into account, according to the Office for National Statistics. This has been covered in lots of other places as well.

    [1] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1890354.ece

  44. @Gareth

    Al was wrong about Mohammed being the most popular name, but you and Chris Brennan seem to be a tad off the mark as well. According to the Times[1], Mohammed is the 2nd-most popular name if variations in spelling (Muhammad, Mohamed, Mohammad, etc) are taken into account, according to the Office for National Statistics. This has been covered in lots of other places as well.

    [1] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1890354.ece

  45. O@ Prasenjeet

    Only when you combine the 14 different spellings.

    That’s like combining Gareth, Garath and Garth

  46. O@ Prasenjeet

    Only when you combine the 14 different spellings.

    That’s like combining Gareth, Garath and Garth

  47. Ignoring the “Pallywood” connection is simply ignoring the fact that there are people in the Middle East who actually DO want Americans to be killed and are coming across the borders into Iraq to do just that – to die for Islam. To ignore that fact simply amazes me.

    Robert: I believe you when you say that your wife experienced bombings inside Iran, where the bombs were “American”; however, there’s a huge difference between the US bombing Iran and weapons being made by American companies being used by other nation’s military – please tell us when and where US Military Aircraft bombed Iran; there doesn’t seem to be ANY info on the US attacking and bombing Iran – ever.

  48. Ignoring the “Pallywood” connection is simply ignoring the fact that there are people in the Middle East who actually DO want Americans to be killed and are coming across the borders into Iraq to do just that – to die for Islam. To ignore that fact simply amazes me.

    Robert: I believe you when you say that your wife experienced bombings inside Iran, where the bombs were “American”; however, there’s a huge difference between the US bombing Iran and weapons being made by American companies being used by other nation’s military – please tell us when and where US Military Aircraft bombed Iran; there doesn’t seem to be ANY info on the US attacking and bombing Iran – ever.

  49. @Gareth: That is the most stupid thing I’ve heard all day. James, Jack and Charlie don’t have spelling variations. So people get exactly what they want when naming the kid. If there was a law stating ‘Mohammed’ had to be spelled the same, that article makes it look like they would all have named their children ‘Mohammed’ and it would be at #2. Nice try though.

  50. @Gareth: That is the most stupid thing I’ve heard all day. James, Jack and Charlie don’t have spelling variations. So people get exactly what they want when naming the kid. If there was a law stating ‘Mohammed’ had to be spelled the same, that article makes it look like they would all have named their children ‘Mohammed’ and it would be at #2. Nice try though.

  51. @ericdrum

    There are tons of spelling variations. Gareth is spelt in 3 ways as above

    Ian, Iain and Ioan

    Sean, Shaun, Seóan, and Shawn

    etc

    The different spellings of Mohammed are as distinct as the above depending on what part of the world they come from. ‘ed’ at the end tends to be from non-Arab Muslim countries whereas ‘ad’ at the end tends to be from Arabic countries

    This is a contrived article relying on twisted stats.

  52. @ericdrum

    There are tons of spelling variations. Gareth is spelt in 3 ways as above

    Ian, Iain and Ioan

    Sean, Shaun, Seóan, and Shawn

    etc

    The different spellings of Mohammed are as distinct as the above depending on what part of the world they come from. ‘ed’ at the end tends to be from non-Arab Muslim countries whereas ‘ad’ at the end tends to be from Arabic countries

    This is a contrived article relying on twisted stats.

  53. @ ericdrum you’re so nearly right – Jimmy – John – Charles? They dilute the statistics the other way. You didn’t hear it either you read it. So you should probably be a bit more respectful when bandying about allegations of stupidity.

  54. @ ericdrum you’re so nearly right – Jimmy – John – Charles? They dilute the statistics the other way. You didn’t hear it either you read it. So you should probably be a bit more respectful when bandying about allegations of stupidity.

  55. “Al” writes: “Try to look at the bigger picture – Militant Islam hasn’t liked us for many years. Is it Bush? No, it’s our culture. And, it’s our freedom they don’t like”

    Every time someone complains about American TV, I’m reminded of a piece I saw on HBO that showed bits of programming from around the world. The most ridiculous thing I saw was video of a transvestite taking a shit, courtesy of a TV show in Sweden.

    America ain’t got nothing on that “culture”.

  56. “Al” writes: “Try to look at the bigger picture – Militant Islam hasn’t liked us for many years. Is it Bush? No, it’s our culture. And, it’s our freedom they don’t like”

    Every time someone complains about American TV, I’m reminded of a piece I saw on HBO that showed bits of programming from around the world. The most ridiculous thing I saw was video of a transvestite taking a shit, courtesy of a TV show in Sweden.

    America ain’t got nothing on that “culture”.

  57. Out of all of the blogs I follow, I think this is the only one where Paris Hilton is ever mentioned.

  58. Out of all of the blogs I follow, I think this is the only one where Paris Hilton is ever mentioned.

  59. @Gareth

    What’s the difference between non-Arab militant Muslims and Arab militant Muslims?

  60. @Gareth

    What’s the difference between non-Arab militant Muslims and Arab militant Muslims?

  61. SOme commenters here are in denial.

    The number of dead Iraqis after our invasion and during our occupation is incedibly high due to sectarian violence, yes, but also from american fire on innocents such as in the video.

    The HUGE number of IRaqis leaving Iraq (from 2 to 4 million) is something to consider.

    All information that shows Americans in a bad light in Iraq is not some anti US propaganda as some here think.

    We are occupying Iraq and that makes us their enemy, occupiers never get on the good side.See the Battle of algiers.

    Face it we fkscked up big time in this travesty.

    Not to mention our veterans that will be screwed from here on out.

  62. SOme commenters here are in denial.

    The number of dead Iraqis after our invasion and during our occupation is incedibly high due to sectarian violence, yes, but also from american fire on innocents such as in the video.

    The HUGE number of IRaqis leaving Iraq (from 2 to 4 million) is something to consider.

    All information that shows Americans in a bad light in Iraq is not some anti US propaganda as some here think.

    We are occupying Iraq and that makes us their enemy, occupiers never get on the good side.See the Battle of algiers.

    Face it we fkscked up big time in this travesty.

    Not to mention our veterans that will be screwed from here on out.

  63. @20. So we turn and run? Then what happens? You aren’t of the belief that things will normalize, are you? I don’t think anyone disputes the fact that ultimately getting out is the right thing to do. What I’ve not seen is an accurate assessment of what the consequences will be. Cambodia, anyone?

  64. @20. So we turn and run? Then what happens? You aren’t of the belief that things will normalize, are you? I don’t think anyone disputes the fact that ultimately getting out is the right thing to do. What I’ve not seen is an accurate assessment of what the consequences will be. Cambodia, anyone?

  65. @34 “The number of dead Iraqis after our invasion and during our occupation is incedibly high due to sectarian violence, yes, but also from american fire on innocents such as in the video.”

    What is the exact number, please? The number of deaths caused by sectarian violence vs the number of deaths caused by collateral damage?

  66. @34 “The number of dead Iraqis after our invasion and during our occupation is incedibly high due to sectarian violence, yes, but also from american fire on innocents such as in the video.”

    What is the exact number, please? The number of deaths caused by sectarian violence vs the number of deaths caused by collateral damage?

  67. @7 “LayZ: I see the positive side of the story every day. After all, our administration still wants us to stay there and is still selling this war to all of us. Your video was a nice try in convincing us that everything is hunky dory there. Might work on the folks who are over on one of the gossip sites, but doesn’t work on me.”

    When did I ever say things were hunky dory? All I’m suggesting is there are good things happening, too. If see the positive side of the story every day, I’ve not seen you post any evidence. This is not the first time you’ve posted this type of propaganda, so excuse me if I’m dubious of your sincerity.

    “Have you ever talked with someone on the other side of our guns and bombs? Fear isn’t the word they use. The video I posted will give you many more insights.”

    Yes, I have. I guess it all depends on who you talk to. I’ve talked with many that see us as liberators. You haven’t apparently. So,where does that leave us?

    “But, oh well, the next terrorists can’t yet get out of Iraq. Someday they will be able to, though. I guess that’s going to be a problem for my son’s generation to deal with.”

    Not sure what the hell point you are trying to make here. Please tell me you aren’t suggesting the US created terrorism by invading Iraq, and if we had done nothing except focus on Afghanistan terrorism would have been eradicated. Can you explain the point you were lamely attempting to make with this comment?

  68. @7 “LayZ: I see the positive side of the story every day. After all, our administration still wants us to stay there and is still selling this war to all of us. Your video was a nice try in convincing us that everything is hunky dory there. Might work on the folks who are over on one of the gossip sites, but doesn’t work on me.”

    When did I ever say things were hunky dory? All I’m suggesting is there are good things happening, too. If see the positive side of the story every day, I’ve not seen you post any evidence. This is not the first time you’ve posted this type of propaganda, so excuse me if I’m dubious of your sincerity.

    “Have you ever talked with someone on the other side of our guns and bombs? Fear isn’t the word they use. The video I posted will give you many more insights.”

    Yes, I have. I guess it all depends on who you talk to. I’ve talked with many that see us as liberators. You haven’t apparently. So,where does that leave us?

    “But, oh well, the next terrorists can’t yet get out of Iraq. Someday they will be able to, though. I guess that’s going to be a problem for my son’s generation to deal with.”

    Not sure what the hell point you are trying to make here. Please tell me you aren’t suggesting the US created terrorism by invading Iraq, and if we had done nothing except focus on Afghanistan terrorism would have been eradicated. Can you explain the point you were lamely attempting to make with this comment?

  69. @16 By citing the commonality of the name Mohammed, I think Al is putting too fine a point on the issue he is attempting to call out. Take a look a this fertility map and tell me amongst whom the largest growth rate is happening?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fertility_rate_world_map_2.png

    and also have a look at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

    how many “non-muslim” countries show up in the Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? Better still,how many muslim country show up? How many European countries show up in the Top 50? Top 100? I see ZERO. How many non-Muslim countries are BELOW the world average fertility rate? How many are above? How many European countries are BELOW the world average fertility rate? How many are ABOVE? So, you tell me what the world will look like in 20 to 50 years at this rate.

  70. @16 By citing the commonality of the name Mohammed, I think Al is putting too fine a point on the issue he is attempting to call out. Take a look a this fertility map and tell me amongst whom the largest growth rate is happening?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fertility_rate_world_map_2.png

    and also have a look at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate

    how many “non-muslim” countries show up in the Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? Better still,how many muslim country show up? How many European countries show up in the Top 50? Top 100? I see ZERO. How many non-Muslim countries are BELOW the world average fertility rate? How many are above? How many European countries are BELOW the world average fertility rate? How many are ABOVE? So, you tell me what the world will look like in 20 to 50 years at this rate.

  71. >>please tell us when and where US Military Aircraft bombed Iran; there doesn’t seem to be ANY info on the US attacking and bombing Iran

    Go back and look at the Ronald Reagan History. He nearly sunk the entire Iranian Navy on a single day.

  72. >>please tell us when and where US Military Aircraft bombed Iran; there doesn’t seem to be ANY info on the US attacking and bombing Iran

    Go back and look at the Ronald Reagan History. He nearly sunk the entire Iranian Navy on a single day.

  73. great, more life lessons (linkbait, is more like it). seriously scoble, stay on target with your audience. i can get this on any number of sites, and the commentary will be much more gripping than “What are we solving?”.

  74. great, more life lessons (linkbait, is more like it). seriously scoble, stay on target with your audience. i can get this on any number of sites, and the commentary will be much more gripping than “What are we solving?”.

  75. from laz “@34″What is the exact number, please? The number of deaths caused by sectarian violence vs the number of deaths caused by collateral damage?

    You’re kidding,right?
    you think we know the EXACT number of deaths caused by your oh so clean term of collateral damage?
    I repeat, we are the occupiers, deaths to civilians by us, by accident, mistaken identy, etc, does us no damn good , and creates more enemies.

    I see you read townhall.
    Enough said.
    The movie the battle of algiers would be something that you should watch.

  76. from laz “@34″What is the exact number, please? The number of deaths caused by sectarian violence vs the number of deaths caused by collateral damage?

    You’re kidding,right?
    you think we know the EXACT number of deaths caused by your oh so clean term of collateral damage?
    I repeat, we are the occupiers, deaths to civilians by us, by accident, mistaken identy, etc, does us no damn good , and creates more enemies.

    I see you read townhall.
    Enough said.
    The movie the battle of algiers would be something that you should watch.

  77. Scoble,

    first of all, channel 9 was a lot better when you were there. please return. ;)

    re: Iraq and the terrible death of Ausama’s uncle. Saddam had to be taken out. He was a madman and there was a nuclear arms race looming between Iraq and Iran. OK, so the US military action to invade Iraq was justified and necessary.

    The madness which has followed is, with all respect and concern for the Ausama of the video, his fault and the fault of the many educated and aware Iraqis like him. Ausama is the same age and ability of the Americans fighting in his country. The response of he and too many other educated Iraqis is to watch from the sidelines and then flee their country.

    If the educated Iraqi men of fighting age dont trust the Iraqi Army commanders, they could enlist into the US military.

    -Steve

  78. Scoble,

    first of all, channel 9 was a lot better when you were there. please return. ;)

    re: Iraq and the terrible death of Ausama’s uncle. Saddam had to be taken out. He was a madman and there was a nuclear arms race looming between Iraq and Iran. OK, so the US military action to invade Iraq was justified and necessary.

    The madness which has followed is, with all respect and concern for the Ausama of the video, his fault and the fault of the many educated and aware Iraqis like him. Ausama is the same age and ability of the Americans fighting in his country. The response of he and too many other educated Iraqis is to watch from the sidelines and then flee their country.

    If the educated Iraqi men of fighting age dont trust the Iraqi Army commanders, they could enlist into the US military.

    -Steve

  79. @42. So THAT’S what John Edwards means when he says there are “two Americas”. Now I understand

    @41. I never suggested there were not deaths caused by collateral damage. I do however,think the majority of civilian deaths “caused by Americans” are collateral damage and not intentional. In fact, the military is almost hamstrung by their rules of engagement. Be that as it may, the question is: why are those less tolerated by you than the ones caused by sectarian violence? Or are you suggesting that if the US leaves the civilian deaths will dramatically drop because the sectarian violence will stop.

    I still see you haven’t answered the question: What happens to the region if the US pulls out?

    “I see you read townhall”

    And I see you read DailyKoz and DemocraticUnderground….enough said. What’s your point?

  80. @42. So THAT’S what John Edwards means when he says there are “two Americas”. Now I understand

    @41. I never suggested there were not deaths caused by collateral damage. I do however,think the majority of civilian deaths “caused by Americans” are collateral damage and not intentional. In fact, the military is almost hamstrung by their rules of engagement. Be that as it may, the question is: why are those less tolerated by you than the ones caused by sectarian violence? Or are you suggesting that if the US leaves the civilian deaths will dramatically drop because the sectarian violence will stop.

    I still see you haven’t answered the question: What happens to the region if the US pulls out?

    “I see you read townhall”

    And I see you read DailyKoz and DemocraticUnderground….enough said. What’s your point?

  81. About the quote of the “two Americas” ( I haven’t heard the actual quote”) I suppose it is based on a Spanish poet who in 1930s wrote “One of the two Spains will freeze your heart”.
    But you seem not to understand. I mean America is not USA. America is a whole continent. By making the word your own, is like you say the rest of countries such as Canada, Mexico, Brasil etc are not Americans. That is your big mistake, thinking you are more important than the rest of the world.

  82. About the quote of the “two Americas” ( I haven’t heard the actual quote”) I suppose it is based on a Spanish poet who in 1930s wrote “One of the two Spains will freeze your heart”.
    But you seem not to understand. I mean America is not USA. America is a whole continent. By making the word your own, is like you say the rest of countries such as Canada, Mexico, Brasil etc are not Americans. That is your big mistake, thinking you are more important than the rest of the world.

  83. sirventes… move past your envy/hate/whatever and try focusing on something that MATTERS in this world. Stop focusing on such trivial BS.

  84. sirventes… move past your envy/hate/whatever and try focusing on something that MATTERS in this world. Stop focusing on such trivial BS.

  85. You americans (USA) are so funny,
    Say one thing and do an other. Support and protest the war at the same time.
    Secterian Violence , WTF, … Your administration got more people killed then Saddam in his entire carreer. You really believe an iraqi is going to make a distinction who actualy killed his or her wife, husband son or daughter.
    Melting pot is better to keep a cuture , shure ask the native americans that.

    all verry funny.

  86. You americans (USA) are so funny,
    Say one thing and do an other. Support and protest the war at the same time.
    Secterian Violence , WTF, … Your administration got more people killed then Saddam in his entire carreer. You really believe an iraqi is going to make a distinction who actualy killed his or her wife, husband son or daughter.
    Melting pot is better to keep a cuture , shure ask the native americans that.

    all verry funny.

  87. Humility goes a long way, but it seems stupidity goes further.

    America has a lot of virtues, so I’m not anti-american per se, though I don’t see why anyone shouldn’t be allowed to be, the brits do a great line in anti-frenchism (and we don’t need a bloody excuse of a war for it)!

    However, below is a list of stupidness in comment by comment form.

    My own observations are that it is a great regret that Peter Jennings isn’t with us anymore.  It doesn’t take fox news, when you have what passes for broadcast  news in america, especially the retardation-full zone that is cbs news.  America lives in a vacuum.  no matter right or left, every child is indoctrinated in “the american way” however idealistically things were meant in their creation, there’s a lack of belief in sovereignty or pluralism, their is ideology and dogma.
    There’s also an undercurrent of a lack of consideration and consequence -I was reading up at avs-forum and someone made a point that all they cared about was the picture, not a jot about the power-usage, and the same thinking runs through when the 4% of the world that is america, produced/uses 25% of it’s resources -gluttonous inefficient profruglut waste -that claims it is bigger, but then requires the poorest countries to stay poor for it to even consider cutting back, let alone first,  and this obsession with “foreign oil” when canada is the primarily source -how about stop wasting energy wherever it comes from , or how much it costs.
    Similarly, the breaking down between action and consequence; american people are seen as good people, they are, and they are given a lot of goodwill, but when the “American Regime” is playing its games of divide and conquer, thinking it is within its right to judge other “regimes”, to espouse its version of democracy, whose    reason for existence is transparency and consequence, then how are the other peoples of the world to not say, all americans are responsible.

    The greatest thing any american could do following this is learn from the other side,  learn history, learn pluralism, learn empathy, not listen to those who proclaim themselves as “patriots” in retort as a blanket to shut everyone up.  It isn’t “our freedoms” they hate, some they want, but are we going to listen before the whole world gives up; as someone said it’s like a disappointing friend, but how long, how many times does your drunken friend disappoint before you have to move on for your own good.

    See thyself in thy Mirror.

    ===============================================

    Layz, no one fears america in the traditional sense, they are repulsed by your own narcism, the pandering of their leaders (-sometimes against the national interest), the hypocrisy, and the irrelevance placed on the value of others lives

    Anyone who knows history, rather than buy’s the hollywood myth, that is like some kind of Echo-chamber to america itself, doesn’t want a green card.

    Part of the deal for debt to britain, so it could afford to fight the 2nd world war, was that Britain had to give up monetary/sterling control for trade between colonies and others – friends, in war, really charge interest and keep kicking.  btw -we just paid-off that debt in the last year.

    “eye for an eye” – would that be the idea that because the former twin towers were attacked by a dozen or so people, America (and the rest of the world stood by indulging the big boy who pinched) thought it had a “right” to bomb a whole country and put in place a government.

    Most countries and its peoples in the world are happy to let the world be, It’s american thinking (now spreading to the rest of the g8) that believes it’s their power and will and right to dictate what civilisation is -it’s belligerence that means if america doesn’t like something, it simply cuts them out of the world and not just ignore them, but actually undermine them, from across latin america to eurasia (unless there’s money, guns and oil involved!)

    25 million russians died in world war 2

    You don’t have to be a muslim to have a problem with america.

    Al,  would you still like to live in a world where people where bowler hats, or mods and rockers are the mainstream young culture, or how about starting fire with twigs; my point is that people always make the point about protecting their culture, but they’re never called up on that what they want is their time to stand still to the second, everything to be frozen, nothing to evolve, to change.
    if free-trade is good, why isn’t free movement of people.

    militant islam -if you keep pushing and pushing, financially, politically, socially, through ngo’s, however, there will eventually be blow-back (last time I looked, those who might provide such “blow-back” across latin america, russia, asia, etc aren’t muslim

    Americans (in much of their persistent ignorance) still think wars happen in weeks; anyone from britain and france who knows history including teenagers, would be able to tell any american that you go into others country, and you’ll be grateful if you leave ( and in control) within a generation.

    Only america would come up with the phrase and so readily use “collateral damage”

    The terrorists in Iraq before the 2003 invasion were the ones that were on Americas’ side then, those against saddam husseins regime.  American culture generally being thick, labelled everyone not a government-player using arms a terrorist, and as some form of war criminal, it just wasn’t enough for america’s collective ego to handle,  as all others had previously, that terrorist are mearly dangerous criminals, and depending on who’s side there on (ironically, it was sein fein that pressed on treating it’s gang of i.r.a. gangsters as “prisoners of war”) .

    You reap what you sow, unfortunately it is those of us who live in those responsible countries who will have to live with the consequences of the pain, suffering, bitterness, anger and hatred, whether in the form of our own valuable fought for freedoms being taken away, assumptions of innocence, our own humanity or the reprisals of others.

    Saddam Hussein was just a 2-bit hoodlum, with some aspirations, who was made bigger to his own people by america, and bigger to the people of america itself to have another bogeyman.
    The 1990 war happened because one country was piping oil from another countries, and it wasn’t iraq.
    The iran war was totally egged on by the U.s., because as repeatedly seen, american leadership just can’t handle other people having different values and belief systems.

  88. Humility goes a long way, but it seems stupidity goes further.

    America has a lot of virtues, so I’m not anti-american per se, though I don’t see why anyone shouldn’t be allowed to be, the brits do a great line in anti-frenchism (and we don’t need a bloody excuse of a war for it)!

    However, below is a list of stupidness in comment by comment form.

    My own observations are that it is a great regret that Peter Jennings isn’t with us anymore.  It doesn’t take fox news, when you have what passes for broadcast  news in america, especially the retardation-full zone that is cbs news.  America lives in a vacuum.  no matter right or left, every child is indoctrinated in “the american way” however idealistically things were meant in their creation, there’s a lack of belief in sovereignty or pluralism, their is ideology and dogma.
    There’s also an undercurrent of a lack of consideration and consequence -I was reading up at avs-forum and someone made a point that all they cared about was the picture, not a jot about the power-usage, and the same thinking runs through when the 4% of the world that is america, produced/uses 25% of it’s resources -gluttonous inefficient profruglut waste -that claims it is bigger, but then requires the poorest countries to stay poor for it to even consider cutting back, let alone first,  and this obsession with “foreign oil” when canada is the primarily source -how about stop wasting energy wherever it comes from , or how much it costs.
    Similarly, the breaking down between action and consequence; american people are seen as good people, they are, and they are given a lot of goodwill, but when the “American Regime” is playing its games of divide and conquer, thinking it is within its right to judge other “regimes”, to espouse its version of democracy, whose    reason for existence is transparency and consequence, then how are the other peoples of the world to not say, all americans are responsible.

    The greatest thing any american could do following this is learn from the other side,  learn history, learn pluralism, learn empathy, not listen to those who proclaim themselves as “patriots” in retort as a blanket to shut everyone up.  It isn’t “our freedoms” they hate, some they want, but are we going to listen before the whole world gives up; as someone said it’s like a disappointing friend, but how long, how many times does your drunken friend disappoint before you have to move on for your own good.

    See thyself in thy Mirror.

    ===============================================

    Layz, no one fears america in the traditional sense, they are repulsed by your own narcism, the pandering of their leaders (-sometimes against the national interest), the hypocrisy, and the irrelevance placed on the value of others lives

    Anyone who knows history, rather than buy’s the hollywood myth, that is like some kind of Echo-chamber to america itself, doesn’t want a green card.

    Part of the deal for debt to britain, so it could afford to fight the 2nd world war, was that Britain had to give up monetary/sterling control for trade between colonies and others – friends, in war, really charge interest and keep kicking.  btw -we just paid-off that debt in the last year.

    “eye for an eye” – would that be the idea that because the former twin towers were attacked by a dozen or so people, America (and the rest of the world stood by indulging the big boy who pinched) thought it had a “right” to bomb a whole country and put in place a government.

    Most countries and its peoples in the world are happy to let the world be, It’s american thinking (now spreading to the rest of the g8) that believes it’s their power and will and right to dictate what civilisation is -it’s belligerence that means if america doesn’t like something, it simply cuts them out of the world and not just ignore them, but actually undermine them, from across latin america to eurasia (unless there’s money, guns and oil involved!)

    25 million russians died in world war 2

    You don’t have to be a muslim to have a problem with america.

    Al,  would you still like to live in a world where people where bowler hats, or mods and rockers are the mainstream young culture, or how about starting fire with twigs; my point is that people always make the point about protecting their culture, but they’re never called up on that what they want is their time to stand still to the second, everything to be frozen, nothing to evolve, to change.
    if free-trade is good, why isn’t free movement of people.

    militant islam -if you keep pushing and pushing, financially, politically, socially, through ngo’s, however, there will eventually be blow-back (last time I looked, those who might provide such “blow-back” across latin america, russia, asia, etc aren’t muslim

    Americans (in much of their persistent ignorance) still think wars happen in weeks; anyone from britain and france who knows history including teenagers, would be able to tell any american that you go into others country, and you’ll be grateful if you leave ( and in control) within a generation.

    Only america would come up with the phrase and so readily use “collateral damage”

    The terrorists in Iraq before the 2003 invasion were the ones that were on Americas’ side then, those against saddam husseins regime.  American culture generally being thick, labelled everyone not a government-player using arms a terrorist, and as some form of war criminal, it just wasn’t enough for america’s collective ego to handle,  as all others had previously, that terrorist are mearly dangerous criminals, and depending on who’s side there on (ironically, it was sein fein that pressed on treating it’s gang of i.r.a. gangsters as “prisoners of war”) .

    You reap what you sow, unfortunately it is those of us who live in those responsible countries who will have to live with the consequences of the pain, suffering, bitterness, anger and hatred, whether in the form of our own valuable fought for freedoms being taken away, assumptions of innocence, our own humanity or the reprisals of others.

    Saddam Hussein was just a 2-bit hoodlum, with some aspirations, who was made bigger to his own people by america, and bigger to the people of america itself to have another bogeyman.
    The 1990 war happened because one country was piping oil from another countries, and it wasn’t iraq.
    The iran war was totally egged on by the U.s., because as repeatedly seen, american leadership just can’t handle other people having different values and belief systems.

  89. @49. Lovely sermon. Unfortunately for you, the USA runs the world. I mean, who else is capable of it? (Sort of like Britian did 300+ years ago) But the questions remain unanswered. Are there more deaths caused by insurgents or US troops? Why do deaths caused by insurgents seem to be more tolerable by the anti-war crowd.

    Critiquing and questioning the reasons for going into Iraq are irrelevant at this point. We are there. So, what is the plan? What are the potential consequences of leaving? How should such a plan be carried out to ensure stability? Anyone can sit back and say “we shouldn’t have gone”. That’s like going on a trip and having your car break down and then sitting around saying “I knew this was a bad idea”

  90. @49. Lovely sermon. Unfortunately for you, the USA runs the world. I mean, who else is capable of it? (Sort of like Britian did 300+ years ago) But the questions remain unanswered. Are there more deaths caused by insurgents or US troops? Why do deaths caused by insurgents seem to be more tolerable by the anti-war crowd.

    Critiquing and questioning the reasons for going into Iraq are irrelevant at this point. We are there. So, what is the plan? What are the potential consequences of leaving? How should such a plan be carried out to ensure stability? Anyone can sit back and say “we shouldn’t have gone”. That’s like going on a trip and having your car break down and then sitting around saying “I knew this was a bad idea”

  91. Layz, Thanks.

    I was simply trying to point out inconvenient truths.

    Please don’t confuse me as some left-winger, it’s pragmatism -the problem with American policy is that it’s not even succeeding in its’ own aims, the problem is those values/aims.

    I agree with some of your questions, some of my observations answer that.

    A life lost is a life lost, but who is a state-player, versus non-state (almost) common-criminals/thugs, who’s reacting to who. Who created the vacuum to allow these “insurgents” to do their damage.

    People who knew history were able to say what would be required after, even before the war -and were ignored; You’ll need a lot more money, a lot more soldiers and a federal structure that dictates equality between the blocks, but if you thing the shias/kurds can act against their emotional (maybe fair) vindictive instincts for previous repression, when even much of the west can’t get away from revenge for genorisity, kindness and forgiveness instead, and aspire to how Nelson Mandela ensured that South Africa didn’t rip-apart, then you truly are a saint.

    In case you missed it, if america wants to ensure success, for it’s own aims even beyond doing the right thing -to not create an area that will “breed” “terrorism”, America will need to be there for a generation and fair (not what’s perceived as U.s. corporate interests) trade and respect, rather than colonially pointing, telling.

    If the collective American mindset is honesty and fairness without dogma or ideological denial, then things, after a lot of pain and bitterness -that will need to be compensated for in one way above and beyond what instinctive arrogance might otherwise allow – then success can still be achieved out of the mess, but sore wounds will exist for a long time.
    No amount of spin and re-writing history will help, and if there was to be a milosevic or jinnah, then it’s back to the inevitable balkanisation, and just wait for the stability you might get then.

    Thanks.

    Kind regards,

    History and Humility

  92. Layz, Thanks.

    I was simply trying to point out inconvenient truths.

    Please don’t confuse me as some left-winger, it’s pragmatism -the problem with American policy is that it’s not even succeeding in its’ own aims, the problem is those values/aims.

    I agree with some of your questions, some of my observations answer that.

    A life lost is a life lost, but who is a state-player, versus non-state (almost) common-criminals/thugs, who’s reacting to who. Who created the vacuum to allow these “insurgents” to do their damage.

    People who knew history were able to say what would be required after, even before the war -and were ignored; You’ll need a lot more money, a lot more soldiers and a federal structure that dictates equality between the blocks, but if you thing the shias/kurds can act against their emotional (maybe fair) vindictive instincts for previous repression, when even much of the west can’t get away from revenge for genorisity, kindness and forgiveness instead, and aspire to how Nelson Mandela ensured that South Africa didn’t rip-apart, then you truly are a saint.

    In case you missed it, if america wants to ensure success, for it’s own aims even beyond doing the right thing -to not create an area that will “breed” “terrorism”, America will need to be there for a generation and fair (not what’s perceived as U.s. corporate interests) trade and respect, rather than colonially pointing, telling.

    If the collective American mindset is honesty and fairness without dogma or ideological denial, then things, after a lot of pain and bitterness -that will need to be compensated for in one way above and beyond what instinctive arrogance might otherwise allow – then success can still be achieved out of the mess, but sore wounds will exist for a long time.
    No amount of spin and re-writing history will help, and if there was to be a milosevic or jinnah, then it’s back to the inevitable balkanisation, and just wait for the stability you might get then.

    Thanks.

    Kind regards,

    History and Humility