Palm did what Nokia, RIM, and Microsoft couldn't: build a better experience than Apple

When I sat down at the beginning of the Palm Pre announcement press conference I was expecting to watch the death of a company. Palm? Give me a break. It would NEVER do anything interesting and Nokia, Microsoft, RIM, and expecially Apple were about to kick it into the deathbin of history.

I was wrong. WAY WAY WAY wrong.

Palm just did what Nokia and Microsoft and RIM couldn’t do: deliver a better experience than Steve Jobs did.

“Give me a break Scoble, you are drinking the shiny new object Koolaid,” I can hear you saying.

This is why I didn’t post a blog about it all day, even though everyone else did. I wanted to let the Koolaid wear off. I went back to the Palm booth again tonight just to make sure what I saw this morning was real.

I learned even more stuff that just blew me away.

From Palm? Give me a break!

Nokia’s devices that I saw last month just suddenly seem so lame.

Why? Well, when you look at the Nokia N97, which will be out at about the same time as the Palm Pre, you see that they also have a nice UI, but it falls apart when you click down into apps and try to do things. Palm doesn’t fall apart. Click down and you keep getting shocked.

Palm’s bet on social networking integration is a game changer. Click into a contact and you see people’s Facebook info and other info from their social networks. That is huge and not many people will get it.

Palm’s web browser is easier to get around than the iPhone’s is. Dave Winer will like some of the touches that were integrated here.

Are you surfing the web and alert comes up? Your web page doesn’t disappear. Really nice touch.

Are you a developer? Everything is based on standard webstuff. Javascript. Et al.

Cut, copy, and paste. Anymore to say?

How Apple centric is the new Palm team? Well, Chris McKillop is director of Software at Palm. He worked on the iPhone team (showed me pictures of me and my son buying iPhones at the Palo Alto store). One of the PR people at Palm did PR at Apple. Jonathan Rubinstein, who runs the Palm Pre team and led off the announcement, was a key person in development of the iPod and lots of people followed him from Apple to Palm, I heard from several people today.

Here’s some videos.

Peter Skillman, director of new product experience at Palm, shows the out of box experience and how the device’s size compares to the iPhone.
A piece of the announcement event today where they showed off some of Palm Pre’s web features.
Here’s another video of Peter showing off what he thinks the coolest things about the Pre are.

Anyway, the bottom line is Palm has a real winner here. It shows that you can never count a company out. Even one that looks like it’s already out of the game.

Published by

Robert Scoble

As Startup Liaison for Rackspace, the Open Cloud Computing Company, Scoble travels the world looking for what's happening on the bleeding edge of technology for Rackspace's startup program. He's interviewed thousands of executives and technology innovators and reports what he learns in books ("The Age of Context," a book coauthored with Forbes author Shel Israel, has been released at http://amzn.to/AgeOfContext ), YouTube, and many social media sites where he's followed by millions of people. Best place to watch me is on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/RobertScoble

Comments

  1. You’re WAY WAY WAY wrong, now.

    Apple have the ecosystem and the momentum. They’ve come from zero experience in the phone business to dominate the field in the space of 18 months, and seem to have unstoppable momentum. They have iTunes, they have VPN, they have Exchange integration – and they have the App Store.

    Palm lost the plot long ago, and no cute CDMA-only/Sprint-only phone is going to save them, no matter how cool the device itself may be. In the next couple of years, virtually everybody but Apple will be out of the mobile business except for Nokia at the lower end, and the Chinese clone-phoners at the lowest of the low end (and that’s only due to clone sales abroad and the peculiar proprietary Chinese wireless specs in China itself).

    Palm have zero chance of staging a comeback. Zip, zero, nada – and I say this as an original Palm Pilot user back in 1996, who stuck with them for a long, long time. You need to step back and look at the bigger picture, and realize that Palm had the future in its hands, and fumbled the whole thing, and now Apple have come up with an unbeatable ecosystem, customer enthusiasm, and developer mindshare.

    It’s over.

  2. You’re WAY WAY WAY wrong, now.

    Apple have the ecosystem and the momentum. They’ve come from zero experience in the phone business to dominate the field in the space of 18 months, and seem to have unstoppable momentum. They have iTunes, they have VPN, they have Exchange integration – and they have the App Store.

    Palm lost the plot long ago, and no cute CDMA-only/Sprint-only phone is going to save them, no matter how cool the device itself may be. In the next couple of years, virtually everybody but Apple will be out of the mobile business except for Nokia at the lower end, and the Chinese clone-phoners at the lowest of the low end (and that’s only due to clone sales abroad and the peculiar proprietary Chinese wireless specs in China itself).

    Palm have zero chance of staging a comeback. Zip, zero, nada – and I say this as an original Palm Pilot user back in 1996, who stuck with them for a long, long time. You need to step back and look at the bigger picture, and realize that Palm had the future in its hands, and fumbled the whole thing, and now Apple have come up with an unbeatable ecosystem, customer enthusiasm, and developer mindshare.

    It’s over.

  3. The details are still pretty thin, so I’m holding off my judgment until we learn more *BUT* this looks like the real deal. :) When I commented on your Nokia post I said the problem with the handset/smartphone manufacturers was they didn’t understand that it was about the experience, and *not* about a feature checklist. *Seems* like Palm got it. Kudos to them.

  4. The details are still pretty thin, so I’m holding off my judgment until we learn more *BUT* this looks like the real deal. :) When I commented on your Nokia post I said the problem with the handset/smartphone manufacturers was they didn’t understand that it was about the experience, and *not* about a feature checklist. *Seems* like Palm got it. Kudos to them.

  5. I love Palm, and rooting for them, but a slick UI cannot a company save. Sony got out long ago, and that’s about when the end started. This makes Palm a takeover target, about best can hope for. Smartphone niche market, with no PDA ecosystem this time around, and no Palm netbooks of sorts, with the webOS platform, just being a fancy browser markup posing as an OS. No clear signals on legacy Palm app support, with another new OS fatigue. Blackberryish clone slickly dressed up with nowhere to go, and expensive to boot. The PDA market, still niche but strong, will wither and die, while they enlist join the coming Apple Cold War. Flash in pan, followed by slow death, but saved from brink, if on buzz alone. But that Zen of Palm, I don’t see it here, just another iPhone clone.

  6. I love Palm, and rooting for them, but a slick UI cannot a company save. Sony got out long ago, and that’s about when the end started. This makes Palm a takeover target, about best can hope for. Smartphone niche market, with no PDA ecosystem this time around, and no Palm netbooks of sorts, with the webOS platform, just being a fancy browser markup posing as an OS. No clear signals on legacy Palm app support, with another new OS fatigue. Blackberryish clone slickly dressed up with nowhere to go, and expensive to boot. The PDA market, still niche but strong, will wither and die, while they enlist join the coming Apple Cold War. Flash in pan, followed by slow death, but saved from brink, if on buzz alone. But that Zen of Palm, I don’t see it here, just another iPhone clone.

  7. Web apps aren’t “real” apps, which is why this might just be a fresh coat of paint with a rotting infrastructure, how so Web 2.0.

  8. Web apps aren’t “real” apps, which is why this might just be a fresh coat of paint with a rotting infrastructure, how so Web 2.0.

  9. I think that the Palm Pre’s success will depend even (and above all) on mass media coverage, web-buzz and word of mouth. Especially out of the US and for the non-professional users who are not so involved in questions about usability, application-disponibility, software developing, etc.

  10. I think that the Palm Pre’s success will depend even (and above all) on mass media coverage, web-buzz and word of mouth. Especially out of the US and for the non-professional users who are not so involved in questions about usability, application-disponibility, software developing, etc.

  11. I think that it looks like the kind of phone that people will like. They might just buy something that they like. If people buy it, Palm may not die.
    It’s not that far fetched to think that Palm could make a SMALL comeback.
    Even if this is not “better than the iPhone” show me something from Motorola, Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, or LG that you would rather have. You don’t have to be number 1 to be a successful company. I think Pepsi still makes a few dollars.

  12. I think that it looks like the kind of phone that people will like. They might just buy something that they like. If people buy it, Palm may not die.
    It’s not that far fetched to think that Palm could make a SMALL comeback.
    Even if this is not “better than the iPhone” show me something from Motorola, Nokia, Sony-Ericsson, or LG that you would rather have. You don’t have to be number 1 to be a successful company. I think Pepsi still makes a few dollars.

  13. Palm does have some “newness.” No Hawkins! Remember the Fooleo and that “third leg” strategy? No more! They also chopped off their second leg – no more PDAs. I’m betting that in a few months, they’ll have nobody left on staff who even knows what Garnet is! When you’ve got nothing to lose you can do anything.

    This isn’t the Palm that screwed everything up. Palm is dead! Long live Palm!

  14. Palm does have some “newness.” No Hawkins! Remember the Fooleo and that “third leg” strategy? No more! They also chopped off their second leg – no more PDAs. I’m betting that in a few months, they’ll have nobody left on staff who even knows what Garnet is! When you’ve got nothing to lose you can do anything.

    This isn’t the Palm that screwed everything up. Palm is dead! Long live Palm!

  15. There’s a lot to like here and I think Palm deserves lots of credit for hitting a winner here. However this is a long match. From a business standpoint most people would say that Palm has preserved a place for themselves; at least for now. Existing Palm users (and there are still quite a few) have a good migration path now to stay with Palm.

    There are still unknowns like pricing and to what degree the development community is going to rally around the new Palm OS. Most would agree that Sprint is a negative but how big remains to be seen. (Most said the same about AT&T with the iPhone.)

    There’s a ton of competition in this market and there are many niche segments. My French mobile is a Samsung which was free and a great touch-screen phone. It’s no iPhone but it has some interesting features. For example I actually get over 30 channels of live TV streamed to it. This seemed silly at the time but it’s amazingly good and this Spring I’ll be watching the French Open on it since we don’t have TV at home. The kids have watched their favorite program, Star Academy, in the back seat some nights as we drive home from dinner. Who knew?!

  16. There’s a lot to like here and I think Palm deserves lots of credit for hitting a winner here. However this is a long match. From a business standpoint most people would say that Palm has preserved a place for themselves; at least for now. Existing Palm users (and there are still quite a few) have a good migration path now to stay with Palm.

    There are still unknowns like pricing and to what degree the development community is going to rally around the new Palm OS. Most would agree that Sprint is a negative but how big remains to be seen. (Most said the same about AT&T with the iPhone.)

    There’s a ton of competition in this market and there are many niche segments. My French mobile is a Samsung which was free and a great touch-screen phone. It’s no iPhone but it has some interesting features. For example I actually get over 30 channels of live TV streamed to it. This seemed silly at the time but it’s amazingly good and this Spring I’ll be watching the French Open on it since we don’t have TV at home. The kids have watched their favorite program, Star Academy, in the back seat some nights as we drive home from dinner. Who knew?!

  17. […] Palm did what Nokia, RIM, and Microsoft couldn’t: build a better experience than Apple: “How Apple centric is the new Palm team? Well, Chris McKillop is director of Software at Palm. He worked on the iPhone team (showed me pictures of me and my son buying iPhones at the Palo Alto store). One of the PR people at Palm did PR at Apple. Jonathan Rubinstein, who runs the Palm Pre team and led off the announcement, was a key person in development of the iPod and lots of people followed him from Apple to Palm, I heard from several people today.” […]

  18. Palm FINALLY shows some balls. I love it when a company is on the brink of extinction, then they hunker down, get their sh*t together and come out with something like this. It’s no game changer like the iPhone, but I could surely see the Pre becoming the second best handset over Nokia, MS and Google Android.

    In my opinion, even with a better handset, nothing can come close now or in the near future to Apple with its App Store for the iPhone. Hopefully Palm is taking notes.

    I love Apple and my iPhone, but I also love competition. It’s what drives companies to experiment and innovate and the true winner is always the consumer. Hopefully Palm will be smart with the pricing they choose. I’m so excited to see what will be coming out of this market in the next 2-3 years!

  19. Palm FINALLY shows some balls. I love it when a company is on the brink of extinction, then they hunker down, get their sh*t together and come out with something like this. It’s no game changer like the iPhone, but I could surely see the Pre becoming the second best handset over Nokia, MS and Google Android.

    In my opinion, even with a better handset, nothing can come close now or in the near future to Apple with its App Store for the iPhone. Hopefully Palm is taking notes.

    I love Apple and my iPhone, but I also love competition. It’s what drives companies to experiment and innovate and the true winner is always the consumer. Hopefully Palm will be smart with the pricing they choose. I’m so excited to see what will be coming out of this market in the next 2-3 years!

  20. The new Palm looks cool if it works as demoed.

    Seems like with a market cap of around 400million Apple, Nokia or Microsoft would scoop up Palm and go about their business while grabbing the best features of the Pre and putting into their own OS.

  21. The new Palm looks cool if it works as demoed.

    Seems like with a market cap of around 400million Apple, Nokia or Microsoft would scoop up Palm and go about their business while grabbing the best features of the Pre and putting into their own OS.

  22. Anyone want to tell Palm that Apple holds multitouch gesture patents? It will be hard for palm to release a product that infringes on so many apple patents.

  23. Anyone want to tell Palm that Apple holds multitouch gesture patents? It will be hard for palm to release a product that infringes on so many apple patents.

  24. Robert, I want to love it. I want to think it’s a competitor, because competition is awesome.

    But you aren’t really giving me much.

    “Are you surfing the web and alert comes up? Your web page doesn’t disappear. Really nice touch.”

    A nice touch compared to what? What phone makes your web page disappear when an alert comes up?

    “Are you a developer? Everything is based on standard webstuff. Javascript. Et al.”

    Do you know many developers who prefer to develop web apps over mobile apps? Do you know about the inherent limitations in developing via the web for something that may not always be connecting to the web, or may have a slow or crappy connection sometimes?

    I watched the videos and I didn’t understand what you think is so revolutionary about this except that it’s a chance to shit on the iPhone, something all the cool kids want to do.

  25. Robert, I want to love it. I want to think it’s a competitor, because competition is awesome.

    But you aren’t really giving me much.

    “Are you surfing the web and alert comes up? Your web page doesn’t disappear. Really nice touch.”

    A nice touch compared to what? What phone makes your web page disappear when an alert comes up?

    “Are you a developer? Everything is based on standard webstuff. Javascript. Et al.”

    Do you know many developers who prefer to develop web apps over mobile apps? Do you know about the inherent limitations in developing via the web for something that may not always be connecting to the web, or may have a slow or crappy connection sometimes?

    I watched the videos and I didn’t understand what you think is so revolutionary about this except that it’s a chance to shit on the iPhone, something all the cool kids want to do.

  26. I just watched the videos. Nice work. What’s up with the inductive and non-inductive models? Do you have to put something on the back of the phone to make it work with the touchstone device? If this is the case couldn’t you do the same with a normal phone?

  27. I just watched the videos. Nice work. What’s up with the inductive and non-inductive models? Do you have to put something on the back of the phone to make it work with the touchstone device? If this is the case couldn’t you do the same with a normal phone?

  28. In retail there are several factors that influence a buying decision:
    – pricing(high price: “then it must be great” – low pricing: “value for money”)
    – branding for trust
    – looks (can you show off with the device)
    – function & features (people only use 10% of all features and functions)
    – Availability

    Will Palm be able to bring all of these?
    Will Palm find enough developers with the right applications?
    Will palm be able to have their device in all retail stores?
    Will Palm …

  29. In retail there are several factors that influence a buying decision:
    – pricing(high price: “then it must be great” – low pricing: “value for money”)
    – branding for trust
    – looks (can you show off with the device)
    – function & features (people only use 10% of all features and functions)
    – Availability

    Will Palm be able to bring all of these?
    Will Palm find enough developers with the right applications?
    Will palm be able to have their device in all retail stores?
    Will Palm …

  30. Can not wait to get my hands on one here in Germany. Have already requested to be put on the waiting list :)

    Even though the Palm Pre seems to be amazing, it will be difficult to catch up to the apple appstore experience.

    Will be a very interresting year and its nice to have palm still fighting for a front seat in the game ;)

    Cheers
    Alexander

  31. Can not wait to get my hands on one here in Germany. Have already requested to be put on the waiting list :)

    Even though the Palm Pre seems to be amazing, it will be difficult to catch up to the apple appstore experience.

    Will be a very interresting year and its nice to have palm still fighting for a front seat in the game ;)

    Cheers
    Alexander

  32. Just stumbled across this site while surfing for the latest CES news. Dude, you are like the Billy Mays of CES.

    “Hi!, Scoble here for POGOPLUG! A revolutionary way to get access to all your files! Tell them Scoble sent you!

    “Hi!, Scoble here for SONGSMITH! A revolutionary way to compose your own music! Tell them Scoble sent you!”

    “Hi, Scoble here for PALM PRE! Better then the Nokia! Better than the iPhone! Tell the Scoble sent you!

    I think you need to turn the camera on yourself when you do these commercials

  33. Just stumbled across this site while surfing for the latest CES news. Dude, you are like the Billy Mays of CES.

    “Hi!, Scoble here for POGOPLUG! A revolutionary way to get access to all your files! Tell them Scoble sent you!

    “Hi!, Scoble here for SONGSMITH! A revolutionary way to compose your own music! Tell them Scoble sent you!”

    “Hi, Scoble here for PALM PRE! Better then the Nokia! Better than the iPhone! Tell the Scoble sent you!

    I think you need to turn the camera on yourself when you do these commercials

  34. Top question. Where’s the recurring revenue? Will Sprint share subscriptions? Does Palm earn app, music, or video share?

    – Matching iPhone cool: Zoom/unzoom, touch accelerometer, Wi-Fi
    – Beating iPhone: contact integration, simpler Palm Pre apps, better camera, keyboard
    – Weakness: Sprint, music
    – Unknown: video, execution on delivery

    The users clearly win with more mobile choices – real mobile options.
    The loses include Nokia, Motorola, WinMob, RIM. Half-hearted solutions won’t be competitive.

    -Dash

  35. Top question. Where’s the recurring revenue? Will Sprint share subscriptions? Does Palm earn app, music, or video share?

    – Matching iPhone cool: Zoom/unzoom, touch accelerometer, Wi-Fi
    – Beating iPhone: contact integration, simpler Palm Pre apps, better camera, keyboard
    – Weakness: Sprint, music
    – Unknown: video, execution on delivery

    The users clearly win with more mobile choices – real mobile options.
    The loses include Nokia, Motorola, WinMob, RIM. Half-hearted solutions won’t be competitive.

    -Dash

  36. It is a beautiful device and the UI is very slick. I do wonder if it is too little too late for Palm or if they are truly “back” as their exec said in your Kyte video.

  37. It is a beautiful device and the UI is very slick. I do wonder if it is too little too late for Palm or if they are truly “back” as their exec said in your Kyte video.

  38. I think you’re missing something, Robert. They carefully didn’t mention price – and that’s telling:

    “The biggest unknown is price, which went unmentioned during the demo. My assumption is that Palm (PALM) would try to take market share by coming in significantly lower than the $200 or so Apple wants for its iPhone. But when I ran that theory by Palm CEO Ed Colligan, he looked at me liked I’d peed on his rug. “Why would we do that when we have a significantly better product,” he asked, then walked away.”

    http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20090108/live-from-ces-palm-unveils-nova/

    Apple has crazy momentum, crazy installed base, and a crazy amount of apps for it. Palm has a lot of catching up to do – and they’re not going to do it easily with a more expensive phone and no ecosystem.

  39. I think you’re missing something, Robert. They carefully didn’t mention price – and that’s telling:

    “The biggest unknown is price, which went unmentioned during the demo. My assumption is that Palm (PALM) would try to take market share by coming in significantly lower than the $200 or so Apple wants for its iPhone. But when I ran that theory by Palm CEO Ed Colligan, he looked at me liked I’d peed on his rug. “Why would we do that when we have a significantly better product,” he asked, then walked away.”

    http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20090108/live-from-ces-palm-unveils-nova/

    Apple has crazy momentum, crazy installed base, and a crazy amount of apps for it. Palm has a lot of catching up to do – and they’re not going to do it easily with a more expensive phone and no ecosystem.

  40. Robert,

    Microsoft hasn’t even got off the ground yet. Microsoft’s attempt to compete with the iPhone, WM7 and WM8 hasn’t been fully revealed yet.

    As for the Zune, it does compete very well against iPod classic.

    If Microsoft is able to bring Windows Mobile up to par, a good advantage of that platform will be that there will be a variety of devices. Although their original PMC strategy didn’t work, that is an important factor in the phone market. Some people just want a touch screen, some people want a keyboard, some people want a keypad. Some people want to use a stylus, some people want to use their fingers.

  41. Robert,

    Microsoft hasn’t even got off the ground yet. Microsoft’s attempt to compete with the iPhone, WM7 and WM8 hasn’t been fully revealed yet.

    As for the Zune, it does compete very well against iPod classic.

    If Microsoft is able to bring Windows Mobile up to par, a good advantage of that platform will be that there will be a variety of devices. Although their original PMC strategy didn’t work, that is an important factor in the phone market. Some people just want a touch screen, some people want a keyboard, some people want a keypad. Some people want to use a stylus, some people want to use their fingers.

  42. Hey Robert,

    Nice to see some enthusiasm behind your view and I agree and disagree here and there with your points. The main problem though is no “App Store”, no “iTunes”, etc.
    No stable growing ecosystem, no developer base as of yet etc.

    Apple is setup to rule for the next decade. They may get somewhere in the next few years but they have to take out RIM or WinMo … I think they are chained to obscurity myself.

  43. Hey Robert,

    Nice to see some enthusiasm behind your view and I agree and disagree here and there with your points. The main problem though is no “App Store”, no “iTunes”, etc.
    No stable growing ecosystem, no developer base as of yet etc.

    Apple is setup to rule for the next decade. They may get somewhere in the next few years but they have to take out RIM or WinMo … I think they are chained to obscurity myself.

  44. By the time they get this into a store where you can actually buy one it’s going to be mid year 2009. That’s about when Apple will be introducing their third generation iPhone.

    I’ve got the greatest respect for Jon Rubenstein. He’s an outstanding engineering manager. But he’s got a long uphill climb if he’s going to take market share from Apple.

    Sounds like the phone is designed to run on Sprint’s system. That means they’d need to design a different version for GSM if the product is to be sold internationally.

    Apple already has 10,000 App Store apps and developers are making money by developing for Apple. Getting developer mindshare with be a bit of a challenge.

    There are a lot of people who would love to have an iPhone but are put off with the hefty AT&T monthly contract rates. That’s why the iPod Touch is selling so well. It does a lot of what the iPhone can do without the AT&T contract.

    If Rubenstein could convince Sprint to offer a monthly rate that’s about half (or less) of AT&T’s rate then he would get people to take a look at his product. That’s the only way I see a newcomer making serious incursions into this fast growing market.

  45. By the time they get this into a store where you can actually buy one it’s going to be mid year 2009. That’s about when Apple will be introducing their third generation iPhone.

    I’ve got the greatest respect for Jon Rubenstein. He’s an outstanding engineering manager. But he’s got a long uphill climb if he’s going to take market share from Apple.

    Sounds like the phone is designed to run on Sprint’s system. That means they’d need to design a different version for GSM if the product is to be sold internationally.

    Apple already has 10,000 App Store apps and developers are making money by developing for Apple. Getting developer mindshare with be a bit of a challenge.

    There are a lot of people who would love to have an iPhone but are put off with the hefty AT&T monthly contract rates. That’s why the iPod Touch is selling so well. It does a lot of what the iPhone can do without the AT&T contract.

    If Rubenstein could convince Sprint to offer a monthly rate that’s about half (or less) of AT&T’s rate then he would get people to take a look at his product. That’s the only way I see a newcomer making serious incursions into this fast growing market.

  46. Hey Skoobie, Do check your spelling before publishing this rubbish.

    There’s no such word as EXPECIALLY . .
    “Microsoft, RIM, and expecially Apple”
    Don’t give up your day job.

  47. Hey Skoobie, Do check your spelling before publishing this rubbish.

    There’s no such word as EXPECIALLY . .
    “Microsoft, RIM, and expecially Apple”
    Don’t give up your day job.

  48. Wait, so now HTML / CSS / JS apps are cool?

    I remember this comment about original iPhone:

    “The biggest hole that Apple has left for its competitors is a really really really lame software developer platform (IE, non-existent, iPhone developers can’t even get data from the accelerometers on the iPhone, which really is lame)” –Robert Scoble

    or

    “But, why is Steve Jobs telling iPhone developers to pound sand? Dave Winer posits that Apple isn’t opening up the iPhone because they don’t have to.” — Robert Scoble

    Suddenly your mind is changed? Damn!

  49. Wait, so now HTML / CSS / JS apps are cool?

    I remember this comment about original iPhone:

    “The biggest hole that Apple has left for its competitors is a really really really lame software developer platform (IE, non-existent, iPhone developers can’t even get data from the accelerometers on the iPhone, which really is lame)” –Robert Scoble

    or

    “But, why is Steve Jobs telling iPhone developers to pound sand? Dave Winer posits that Apple isn’t opening up the iPhone because they don’t have to.” — Robert Scoble

    Suddenly your mind is changed? Damn!

  50. I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t type on a Sholes keyboard at work or at home, and half the other programmers I know don’t, either.

    I just can’t see paying money for something with a keyboard I don’t know how to type on. With physical keyboards, I can remap in software and usually move the physical keys. With a phone, there’s no way to touch-type (so even if there’s a keyboard layout setting it’s useless), and the keys have supplementary info on them like 1-2-3 on E-R-T (so even if you can move the keys there’s no point).

    Is this better or worse than Apple? I don’t know. The iPhone has a software-only keyboard, but no Dvorak setting. Personally I think they’re all idiots.

  51. I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t type on a Sholes keyboard at work or at home, and half the other programmers I know don’t, either.

    I just can’t see paying money for something with a keyboard I don’t know how to type on. With physical keyboards, I can remap in software and usually move the physical keys. With a phone, there’s no way to touch-type (so even if there’s a keyboard layout setting it’s useless), and the keys have supplementary info on them like 1-2-3 on E-R-T (so even if you can move the keys there’s no point).

    Is this better or worse than Apple? I don’t know. The iPhone has a software-only keyboard, but no Dvorak setting. Personally I think they’re all idiots.

  52. Scobble don’t forget that (Jon Rubinstein) who is revitalizing Palm was an Apple man, so in the end, he is just applying things learned at the Technology and Innovation School: Apple. The Palm Pre will be an excellent mobile device, but Palm Pre is something of tomorrow, the iPhone is now and by the time Palm Pre hits the market a lot of new firmware upgrades could just happen in the Appledome. Apple is not sleeping, Apple is counting its money and you may bet that the new iPhone killer is ready in use by Steve Jobs.

    I admit that Palm is doing a few things the proper and more intelligent way: the Website: Totally people oriented, clean, smart, colorful and smart and now the Pre, it seems that some things are changing at Palm. But please don’t mix Palm and Apple.

  53. Scobble don’t forget that (Jon Rubinstein) who is revitalizing Palm was an Apple man, so in the end, he is just applying things learned at the Technology and Innovation School: Apple. The Palm Pre will be an excellent mobile device, but Palm Pre is something of tomorrow, the iPhone is now and by the time Palm Pre hits the market a lot of new firmware upgrades could just happen in the Appledome. Apple is not sleeping, Apple is counting its money and you may bet that the new iPhone killer is ready in use by Steve Jobs.

    I admit that Palm is doing a few things the proper and more intelligent way: the Website: Totally people oriented, clean, smart, colorful and smart and now the Pre, it seems that some things are changing at Palm. But please don’t mix Palm and Apple.

  54. Something that I totally forgot: Palm was Founded by Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky, Donna Dubinsky worked for Apple and for Apple subsidiary Claris.

    Now two ex-Apple employees are putting Palm into the spotlight again. Life is strange….

  55. Something that I totally forgot: Palm was Founded by Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky, Donna Dubinsky worked for Apple and for Apple subsidiary Claris.

    Now two ex-Apple employees are putting Palm into the spotlight again. Life is strange….

  56. Something that I totally forgot: Palm was Founded by Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky, Donna Dubinsky worked for Apple and for Apple subsidiary Claris.

    Now two ex-Apple employees are putting Palm into the spotlight again. Life is strange….

  57. Something that I totally forgot: Palm was Founded by Jeff Hawkins and Donna Dubinsky, Donna Dubinsky worked for Apple and for Apple subsidiary Claris.

    Now two ex-Apple employees are putting Palm into the spotlight again. Life is strange….

  58. You can always trust a blogger to jump to conclusions!!!

    *Relax, take a deep breath (or a donut) and wait a year before you even consider this one as a competitor.

  59. You can always trust a blogger to jump to conclusions!!!

    *Relax, take a deep breath (or a donut) and wait a year before you even consider this one as a competitor.

  60. I only heard about this phone today and I’m mighty excited. I was thinking about getting the G1 but I heard it was a bit unwieldy and I hate the idea of being tied to a particular service provider. I could never gett an iPhone because as far as I’m concerned Apple are just Microsoft with a better PR/design team. The G1 now has real competition in my eyes. If it turns out to be as open as it sounds and allows you to choose your own network then I’m sold on it.

    Waiting to see what the reviews say once it’s released before I make my mind up but it does look amazing. Way to go Palm…

  61. I only heard about this phone today and I’m mighty excited. I was thinking about getting the G1 but I heard it was a bit unwieldy and I hate the idea of being tied to a particular service provider. I could never gett an iPhone because as far as I’m concerned Apple are just Microsoft with a better PR/design team. The G1 now has real competition in my eyes. If it turns out to be as open as it sounds and allows you to choose your own network then I’m sold on it.

    Waiting to see what the reviews say once it’s released before I make my mind up but it does look amazing. Way to go Palm…

  62. Palm as a software company, just became a takeover target. Because what Sony Ericsson, Hewlett Packard, Dell, Samsung, Motorola and LG and others don’t have is an OS that gives them tablestakes – they all have opted in one form or another to: 1) go at it themselves; 2) use Microsoft; 3) Google Android; or 4) run from the space entirely – which is not a strategic option longer term. Palm is now in the same conversation as Android, Microsoft Mobile, Apple and Research in Motion – the others make phones.

    See, Palm showed what it is and will always, be a user-focused operating system, even though it took an inept management team 2-3 years to realize it. Even in the Treo’s dying days – which continue every day as my friend Om astutely points out – people still like using it! Something which very few of the above can claim of their mobile experiences.

    For full comment:

    http://www.joshbaylin.com/2009/01/palm-its-the-software-stupid/

  63. Palm as a software company, just became a takeover target. Because what Sony Ericsson, Hewlett Packard, Dell, Samsung, Motorola and LG and others don’t have is an OS that gives them tablestakes – they all have opted in one form or another to: 1) go at it themselves; 2) use Microsoft; 3) Google Android; or 4) run from the space entirely – which is not a strategic option longer term. Palm is now in the same conversation as Android, Microsoft Mobile, Apple and Research in Motion – the others make phones.

    See, Palm showed what it is and will always, be a user-focused operating system, even though it took an inept management team 2-3 years to realize it. Even in the Treo’s dying days – which continue every day as my friend Om astutely points out – people still like using it! Something which very few of the above can claim of their mobile experiences.

    For full comment:

    http://www.joshbaylin.com/2009/01/palm-its-the-software-stupid/

  64. Wow Roland Dobbins, you gotta be kidding me. Take a look outside the States, just because americans think anything better than a Motorola Razor is the greatest thing ever marketed, doesn’t mean the rest of the world does. Just because El Jobso says that having a large portfolio of phones is a bad idea, doesn’t mean the rest of the world wants to have the SAME phone.

    Apple will dominate in the US, given Nokia’s weak marketing strategy and a beautiful product, RIM will continue strong, and outside the US Nokia will remain well positioned because of its vast offering, far from “low end”. Apple will bite some from Nokia’s market share, and competition will be fierce. In the end, consumers will be winners.

  65. Wow Roland Dobbins, you gotta be kidding me. Take a look outside the States, just because americans think anything better than a Motorola Razor is the greatest thing ever marketed, doesn’t mean the rest of the world does. Just because El Jobso says that having a large portfolio of phones is a bad idea, doesn’t mean the rest of the world wants to have the SAME phone.

    Apple will dominate in the US, given Nokia’s weak marketing strategy and a beautiful product, RIM will continue strong, and outside the US Nokia will remain well positioned because of its vast offering, far from “low end”. Apple will bite some from Nokia’s market share, and competition will be fierce. In the end, consumers will be winners.

  66. Scoble, if I did smoke weed, I would definitely be asking where you got yours. I was the owner of an original Palm Pilot and have always been a fan. My last Palm device was a Treo 650. I hate to see the company go belly up.

    Unfortunately, this Pre device will not save Palm. They are already too far gone to be saved. I can’t imagine the Pre would be anywhere close to the experience delivered by the iPhone. Or even a Blackberry Curve for that matter. Get real. I hope they paid you a lot for your endorsement. More evidence of their failed strategy.

  67. Scoble, if I did smoke weed, I would definitely be asking where you got yours. I was the owner of an original Palm Pilot and have always been a fan. My last Palm device was a Treo 650. I hate to see the company go belly up.

    Unfortunately, this Pre device will not save Palm. They are already too far gone to be saved. I can’t imagine the Pre would be anywhere close to the experience delivered by the iPhone. Or even a Blackberry Curve for that matter. Get real. I hope they paid you a lot for your endorsement. More evidence of their failed strategy.

  68. If you search the internet, you can find threads EXACTLY like this one when a couple of other failed devices were first announced. The first was called an iPod. Most people said it would fail badly because Apple (who made it) knew nothing about music and the player itself was underspecced and ovverpriced, and of course Apple itself was a doomed company. It promised so much but sadly it didn’t have a hope. And then Apple, who just couldn’t learn, followed up with another miserable failure. This one they called the iPhone, and again the doomsayers were plentiful. Unfortunately, Apple just never seems to learn. It would be much more successful if it would listen to these doomsayers who adamantly declare imminent failure for any product without any real consideration to the product or history.

    Now it looks like it’s Palm’s turn. The doomsayers may be right, but it’s very bold of them to be so adamant. Apple came back from the dead, so did Mozilla (nee Netscape).

    The world needs a real alternative to the iPhone. Markets like more than one player. In computer OSes there’s Windows, OS X and Linux.

    In the ultrasmartphone market, it’s still really just the iPhone. Android should be the second, but after that, with RIM bumbling, the door is wide open.

    Palm has a distinct advantage over the others because it has experience in the market, a thriving developer community, an app store, and still many loyal users.

    Granted none of the current apps on Palm’s app store will likely work on the Pre doesn’t matter. The infrastructure is already in place and working. That’s a big advantage over the other contenders for the #3 sport in the ultrasmartphone market.

    I’ll have to bookmark this thread and come back in a couple of years, because someone is going to be very wrong, either Scoble or the Doomsayers. And I suspect it won’t be Scoble.

  69. If you search the internet, you can find threads EXACTLY like this one when a couple of other failed devices were first announced. The first was called an iPod. Most people said it would fail badly because Apple (who made it) knew nothing about music and the player itself was underspecced and ovverpriced, and of course Apple itself was a doomed company. It promised so much but sadly it didn’t have a hope. And then Apple, who just couldn’t learn, followed up with another miserable failure. This one they called the iPhone, and again the doomsayers were plentiful. Unfortunately, Apple just never seems to learn. It would be much more successful if it would listen to these doomsayers who adamantly declare imminent failure for any product without any real consideration to the product or history.

    Now it looks like it’s Palm’s turn. The doomsayers may be right, but it’s very bold of them to be so adamant. Apple came back from the dead, so did Mozilla (nee Netscape).

    The world needs a real alternative to the iPhone. Markets like more than one player. In computer OSes there’s Windows, OS X and Linux.

    In the ultrasmartphone market, it’s still really just the iPhone. Android should be the second, but after that, with RIM bumbling, the door is wide open.

    Palm has a distinct advantage over the others because it has experience in the market, a thriving developer community, an app store, and still many loyal users.

    Granted none of the current apps on Palm’s app store will likely work on the Pre doesn’t matter. The infrastructure is already in place and working. That’s a big advantage over the other contenders for the #3 sport in the ultrasmartphone market.

    I’ll have to bookmark this thread and come back in a couple of years, because someone is going to be very wrong, either Scoble or the Doomsayers. And I suspect it won’t be Scoble.

  70. Further, why do people think the Palm is or has to compete against the iPhone or steal its marketshare? It doesn’t have to. It’s the other players that should be afraid of Palm.

  71. Further, why do people think the Palm is or has to compete against the iPhone or steal its marketshare? It doesn’t have to. It’s the other players that should be afraid of Palm.

  72. You really got no news info other than you went to a Palm Pre announcement press conference. Did you cry when you saw cut, copy, and past on the phone? I am sure you did!

  73. You really got no news info other than you went to a Palm Pre announcement press conference. Did you cry when you saw cut, copy, and past on the phone? I am sure you did!

  74. Yeah.. and for $399 with 2 year contract with Sprint it is a REAL BARGAIN … NOT !

    Palm always sees the light AFTER Apple. Remember Newton … then Palm. Now iPhone … then this Palm Pre. The difference now is that the iPhone is well established with a 2 year lead and getting cheaper and better. Why pay $399 + 2 Year contract when you can get iPhones for $99 (refurbs) or $199 new.

    Now, if you don’t want or can’t get AT&T then … this is your option.

  75. Yeah.. and for $399 with 2 year contract with Sprint it is a REAL BARGAIN … NOT !

    Palm always sees the light AFTER Apple. Remember Newton … then Palm. Now iPhone … then this Palm Pre. The difference now is that the iPhone is well established with a 2 year lead and getting cheaper and better. Why pay $399 + 2 Year contract when you can get iPhones for $99 (refurbs) or $199 new.

    Now, if you don’t want or can’t get AT&T then … this is your option.

  76. @ Chris Howard,

    The Palm will go back to its place as a niche player per se.

    The only chance it has is for Sprint to fully subsided it. Look around there are many iPhone wannabees and everyone is fighting to survive the recession and the end result will be a lot of good stuffs coming out.
    And by the time the Pre is launched it will be a has been.
    One more thing no one knows its user’s experience and every bloggers blogged on the strengthen of the presentation.

  77. @ Chris Howard,

    The Palm will go back to its place as a niche player per se.

    The only chance it has is for Sprint to fully subsided it. Look around there are many iPhone wannabees and everyone is fighting to survive the recession and the end result will be a lot of good stuffs coming out.
    And by the time the Pre is launched it will be a has been.
    One more thing no one knows its user’s experience and every bloggers blogged on the strengthen of the presentation.

  78. I’m going to put some trust in Robert for this one. The guy carries multiple phones around with him at one time and he’s gone hands-on with a ton of different devices. If he says that the Pre delivers a better user experience than the iPhone, I’m inclined to believe it.

    That’s all he said, by the way. He didn’t predict the death of the iPhone. He didn’t predict that the Palm Pre was going to take over the world. He simply stated that, based on his time with both phones, the Pre offered a better user experience.

    Who should be taking the deep breath, here?

  79. I’m going to put some trust in Robert for this one. The guy carries multiple phones around with him at one time and he’s gone hands-on with a ton of different devices. If he says that the Pre delivers a better user experience than the iPhone, I’m inclined to believe it.

    That’s all he said, by the way. He didn’t predict the death of the iPhone. He didn’t predict that the Palm Pre was going to take over the world. He simply stated that, based on his time with both phones, the Pre offered a better user experience.

    Who should be taking the deep breath, here?

  80. Heaven forbid that something comes along better than the iPhone! Apple fanatics just got to the point of legitimization and feel now that it can be torn away. Rubish! Palm Pre will do well, but it won’t kill iPhone. It will most likely make it a two horse race which is great.

    As a software company owner, I am just happy to hear that the browsers on these devices are getting better! What a great thing. We will be looking into an iPhone optimized app and one for the Palm now!

    Welcome back Palm. We’ve missed you.

  81. Heaven forbid that something comes along better than the iPhone! Apple fanatics just got to the point of legitimization and feel now that it can be torn away. Rubish! Palm Pre will do well, but it won’t kill iPhone. It will most likely make it a two horse race which is great.

    As a software company owner, I am just happy to hear that the browsers on these devices are getting better! What a great thing. We will be looking into an iPhone optimized app and one for the Palm now!

    Welcome back Palm. We’ve missed you.

  82. So funny. You didn’t mention e-mail. What does that mean? Is it a PDA that makes phone calls? Does it use the outdated stylus for input?

    It does look nice and the Centro was a nice start to a great comeback. It’s just hard to believe that the company has gotten that failure trait out of their DNA. I lost track, but it started with 3Com (3-who? exactly.). And it kept going with selling the Palm OS and name and having to buy it all back. Again, the details start to get blurry because it just got too ridiculous to believe.

  83. So funny. You didn’t mention e-mail. What does that mean? Is it a PDA that makes phone calls? Does it use the outdated stylus for input?

    It does look nice and the Centro was a nice start to a great comeback. It’s just hard to believe that the company has gotten that failure trait out of their DNA. I lost track, but it started with 3Com (3-who? exactly.). And it kept going with selling the Palm OS and name and having to buy it all back. Again, the details start to get blurry because it just got too ridiculous to believe.

  84. Scoble, can you find out more about the The Palm Mojo Application Framework.

    Saying that it’s all HTML/CSS is all well and good but I want details. What does it take to develop for this platform. When can we see some sample code, etc.

    Thanks!

    Micah

  85. Scoble, can you find out more about the The Palm Mojo Application Framework.

    Saying that it’s all HTML/CSS is all well and good but I want details. What does it take to develop for this platform. When can we see some sample code, etc.

    Thanks!

    Micah

  86. Years ago Microsoft realised the browser could take the Windows monopoly, but Microsoft was able to crush Netscape. Apple embraced open standards and formats and brought Webkit (including Squirrelfish Extreme) to a commercial level of quality. Enabling Palm (and Google) to leverage that work and deliver high performance Web 2.0 applications is the price Apple knew they would pay to break Microsoft’s dominance. Apple really is dependent on innovating ahead of the competition. Palm has designed a beautiful product, but it is surely no more than Webkit and Squirrelfish Extreme running on top of Linux. Even if it does save Palm, it’s a place every other handset maker can go quite cheaply.

    Interesting that, despite the class-leading performance, Palm said they still have performance work to do. That tells me that the current demo handsets are clocked at a speed that won’t deliver adequate battery life, despite having a CPU a generation ahead of currently shipping smartphones.

  87. Years ago Microsoft realised the browser could take the Windows monopoly, but Microsoft was able to crush Netscape. Apple embraced open standards and formats and brought Webkit (including Squirrelfish Extreme) to a commercial level of quality. Enabling Palm (and Google) to leverage that work and deliver high performance Web 2.0 applications is the price Apple knew they would pay to break Microsoft’s dominance. Apple really is dependent on innovating ahead of the competition. Palm has designed a beautiful product, but it is surely no more than Webkit and Squirrelfish Extreme running on top of Linux. Even if it does save Palm, it’s a place every other handset maker can go quite cheaply.

    Interesting that, despite the class-leading performance, Palm said they still have performance work to do. That tells me that the current demo handsets are clocked at a speed that won’t deliver adequate battery life, despite having a CPU a generation ahead of currently shipping smartphones.

  88. Long-time Palm loyalists know the gig is up. It’s just all these fluffy-pretty-UI never-used-a-Palm before types that are going Beatlemania flip-flop crazy. CES that dull and attendance that off that Pre steals show? Guess so. The Almighty Zen of Palm, watered down into a webby iPhone Clone.

    And I suspect it won’t be Scoble.

    I’d look at history, say NetMeeting, Winnov, UserLand and “RSS will save the world”, Visual Basic, Second Life, UMPC/Tablets, Longhorn, Podtech, and future-tense, Fast Company.

  89. Long-time Palm loyalists know the gig is up. It’s just all these fluffy-pretty-UI never-used-a-Palm before types that are going Beatlemania flip-flop crazy. CES that dull and attendance that off that Pre steals show? Guess so. The Almighty Zen of Palm, watered down into a webby iPhone Clone.

    And I suspect it won’t be Scoble.

    I’d look at history, say NetMeeting, Winnov, UserLand and “RSS will save the world”, Visual Basic, Second Life, UMPC/Tablets, Longhorn, Podtech, and future-tense, Fast Company.

  90. Scoble,

    I agree with you.. Your headline nails it (maybe it’s a tad early to add Google to that list)? Honestly, I didn’t expect too much, but I was hoping they could prove folks wrong. But after reading a bit, and seeing the press demo via YouTube and some other places, it’s pretty clear this webOS is something to be excited about.

    The importance of software ease of use is hugely under-rated in lots of different areas of technology. And getting developers back on the Palm bandwagon is key.

    Looks like Palm addressed both and seems like they will pass with flying colors.

    Very interesting indeed.

  91. Scoble,

    I agree with you.. Your headline nails it (maybe it’s a tad early to add Google to that list)? Honestly, I didn’t expect too much, but I was hoping they could prove folks wrong. But after reading a bit, and seeing the press demo via YouTube and some other places, it’s pretty clear this webOS is something to be excited about.

    The importance of software ease of use is hugely under-rated in lots of different areas of technology. And getting developers back on the Palm bandwagon is key.

    Looks like Palm addressed both and seems like they will pass with flying colors.

    Very interesting indeed.

  92. YOur retarded, palm haha ya that was cool back a decade and a half ago. YOur choice of technology is one of pure genius, not. way to waste the paper and space on the internet with this opinion of yours. Fuck face

  93. YOur retarded, palm haha ya that was cool back a decade and a half ago. YOur choice of technology is one of pure genius, not. way to waste the paper and space on the internet with this opinion of yours. Fuck face

  94. People want to buy smartphones.

    No they don’t. People want to buy phones, the “smartness” is relative. As extra phone functionalities and text-messaging are commonplace, the “smartphones” of old are no longer “smart”. With even the smugly-marketed iPhones going Wally World, it’s all a commodity, there are no Smartphones, just phones, low-end to high-end.

    Some want high-end Swiss Army Knives with everything packed in, and others want just the basics. As tons of LGs, Samsungs, Motorolas, HTCs, Fujistus, Nokias and Sony Ericsson’s out there. Some people want massive robot-looking expensive gamer systems, others just want basic corporate laptops, some people only need a 1 gig SD, others want a 2 TB SDXC. The middle-level Business Class is always a far greater market than the edge-market that buys the latest $500 video card. Being Dell, you well know that. :)

    Palm is just another player in a big ocean, that has seemingly abandoned everything before. Whole lot of substance that has to be filled in before some gee-whiz demos pan out, pricing I suspect is gonna be a killer, they won’t ramp to market, going “we are better” and price themselves out. Plus the whole Verizon-Alltel deal adds a wrinkle. Way too early.

  95. People want to buy smartphones.

    No they don’t. People want to buy phones, the “smartness” is relative. As extra phone functionalities and text-messaging are commonplace, the “smartphones” of old are no longer “smart”. With even the smugly-marketed iPhones going Wally World, it’s all a commodity, there are no Smartphones, just phones, low-end to high-end.

    Some want high-end Swiss Army Knives with everything packed in, and others want just the basics. As tons of LGs, Samsungs, Motorolas, HTCs, Fujistus, Nokias and Sony Ericsson’s out there. Some people want massive robot-looking expensive gamer systems, others just want basic corporate laptops, some people only need a 1 gig SD, others want a 2 TB SDXC. The middle-level Business Class is always a far greater market than the edge-market that buys the latest $500 video card. Being Dell, you well know that. :)

    Palm is just another player in a big ocean, that has seemingly abandoned everything before. Whole lot of substance that has to be filled in before some gee-whiz demos pan out, pricing I suspect is gonna be a killer, they won’t ramp to market, going “we are better” and price themselves out. Plus the whole Verizon-Alltel deal adds a wrinkle. Way too early.

  96. Good points Chris. No question it’s way early. And definitely agree with you that not everyone wants a high-end phone. But, I do think there’s still room for improvement on the OS side in the mobile space.

    Before the iPhone, nobody expected that Apple would sell 12 million phones (or whatever the # is these days). They got there by making a platform that was easier to use.

    The Palm webOS looks promising on that front, and at least based on the information that’s out there at the moment, it looks like app development will be pretty well thought out.

    So, in the end, it’s still early, yes. But it seems to me that the webOS will be a reason why this will stand out in a crowded market.

    Will be fun to watch.

  97. Good points Chris. No question it’s way early. And definitely agree with you that not everyone wants a high-end phone. But, I do think there’s still room for improvement on the OS side in the mobile space.

    Before the iPhone, nobody expected that Apple would sell 12 million phones (or whatever the # is these days). They got there by making a platform that was easier to use.

    The Palm webOS looks promising on that front, and at least based on the information that’s out there at the moment, it looks like app development will be pretty well thought out.

    So, in the end, it’s still early, yes. But it seems to me that the webOS will be a reason why this will stand out in a crowded market.

    Will be fun to watch.

  98. I loved Palm, but that was ten years ago, I didn’t even know they were still making marketable products. 5 yrs ago when their stock share were at $2-3 per share I figured it was all over for them. I will have to check out these new products.

  99. I loved Palm, but that was ten years ago, I didn’t even know they were still making marketable products. 5 yrs ago when their stock share were at $2-3 per share I figured it was all over for them. I will have to check out these new products.

  100. Sorry Scoble, I have to join the choir. (You can have loads of fun making fun of us if Palm succeeds.)

    What, indeed, are you smoking?

    The simple fact is that Palm hasn’t had a good idea since the PalmPilot. (The Treo was Handspring’s idea.)

    This MIGHT be a great idea – I don’t know yet – but to assume that Palm has the tech expertise, the management, or the distributors to pull off a real success here is ridiculous.

    If this came out three years ago, it would have changed everything. Now Apple has the inertia and the fashion factor. Palm’s best hope at this point is to be bought out by Motorola…

  101. Sorry Scoble, I have to join the choir. (You can have loads of fun making fun of us if Palm succeeds.)

    What, indeed, are you smoking?

    The simple fact is that Palm hasn’t had a good idea since the PalmPilot. (The Treo was Handspring’s idea.)

    This MIGHT be a great idea – I don’t know yet – but to assume that Palm has the tech expertise, the management, or the distributors to pull off a real success here is ridiculous.

    If this came out three years ago, it would have changed everything. Now Apple has the inertia and the fashion factor. Palm’s best hope at this point is to be bought out by Motorola…

  102. @Michael Moncur About your comment: “Palm’s best hope at this point is to be bought out by Motorola…”

    That’s the most evil idea and I wish I had thought of it. Motorola can start chasing another mobile operating system to augment its social networking dreams. Maybe they can bring back the Foleo too and take over the Netbook market.

    Anyway, I’m a big fan of Jeff Hawkins and I am always impressed that he essentially sold the same company to 3Com twice. First, he sold PalmPilot to 3Com/US Robotics and later sold Handspring and Treo to the same folks. He should do it one more time and call it a hat trick.

  103. @Michael Moncur About your comment: “Palm’s best hope at this point is to be bought out by Motorola…”

    That’s the most evil idea and I wish I had thought of it. Motorola can start chasing another mobile operating system to augment its social networking dreams. Maybe they can bring back the Foleo too and take over the Netbook market.

    Anyway, I’m a big fan of Jeff Hawkins and I am always impressed that he essentially sold the same company to 3Com twice. First, he sold PalmPilot to 3Com/US Robotics and later sold Handspring and Treo to the same folks. He should do it one more time and call it a hat trick.

  104. An OS powered by a dynamic language on a mobile plateform?
    I might be retarted but Apple tried to sell us this one and it didn’t work.

    Mobile processing power didn’t increased that much on the meantime.

    I would be very surprised to read their demos with smooth transitions and animations, their apps (calendar, address book, pictures..) are actually powered by a javascript engine. It must be a plain old C++ (or similar), the only tools which deliver speed and small memory requirement.
    Javascript “optimizers” are far from delivering the same efficiency that Java virtual machines do (like the one used for Android).

    If the new Palm Pré apps are 1MB larger and 100% slower than their equivalent on the iPhone, it will show quickly.

    Speed is important.
    The only metric people feel when they actually enjoying using a device is the responsiveness of the interaction they have with it.

    Which brings to us the same dilemma that Apple had: developers wants to get to the core of the device, say accessing the accelerometer, the full gestures, the keypad, etc.
    So how long before we see WebOs apps and Native Pré apps?


    Is Synergy is going to sync?
    Sync is one of the most difficult task to get it right on the whole IT industry.
    And as time fly, the task becomes harder and harder because of the number of providers we use to store “our digital things”.
    Is the “combine everything in one” approach is really going to help or confuse people? Is merging all conversations into one a nice move?
    I hope Palm did a lot of user testing before investing massively in their vision.
    I hope they’re right and will be delighted if they are, but I will not buy a Pre to test it myself.


    Kudos to Palm engineers to improve the User Interface on a mobile device.

    But is nice screens and smart gestures will be enough? It remains to be seen as I never seen a proof yet.
    However repainting and changing the display always been a good trick to have people coming in.

    Also why have you dropped the stylus?
    Why are you doing the same mistake as Apple as using 1dpi fingers on extremly high density screen.
    You’ve been there before with the Palm 1 and its 160×160 pixels screen. So you know how and why precision matters.
    On all your (crappy) videos we see people “missing” their target!
    Let’s face it: fingers are fat and greasy.

    I’m not saying they are not useful : a lot of Palm users were loosing their stylus and using their fingers instead, and were complaining the buttons were too small.
    However we still don’t see somebody writing with their hands. Everybody use a pen.
    Today the input resolution didn’t increased since the first Palm. The buttons are just nicer on a high definition screen.
    I think there is a tradeoff between broad precision and finer control.

    Palm was one of the few company able to accomodate both because of their legacy (the stylus and its gestures). For once a weakness could have been turned into an advantage.

    The other company who got a chance to make something remarkable is now Microsoft with its mobile OS. They have a legacy stylus interface too.
    However with the hype of the touchscreen it’s unlikely. And Microsoft never delivered an engaging interface.
    Palm did. Once. A long time ago.

    The three inputs fingers, keyboard and stylus are just mandatory for a modern mobile UI.
    – The fingers for efficiency (always there, touch is quick),
    – the keyboard because when you’re moving it’s easier (in the bus, the car, etc.) and because you have the other inputs you don’t need to have keys with several meanings.
    – the stylus because it give you precision. Then you can draw, you can write, you can change the width of this excel spreadsheet, etc. You can DO more.

    —–
    What we’re seeing here with Palm annoucement is not even good PR.
    Where are the videos with the crisp display showing fingers explaining how the device works? Like the ones we’ve seen an hour after the end of the iPhone keynote.
    Before the iPhone ships people knew already how it worked because they had the opportunity to see a ton of tutorials about it.
    The iPhone is not more intuitive than anything else, it’s the way the learning occurs: by friends saying “look how I’m smart, let me do a demo to you”.
    The same trick has been done with the first iPod: you were able to use it on the web.
    I cannot believe people coming from Apple have forgotten this.

    Palm would have been bold by announcing the product and saying: “it’s so important that we will discontinue our Treo range as soon as the Pre is shipped” to show their focus.

    Do we really care if your stock price was up? It’s just prove that stock prices are meaningless and do not reflect the true value of a company. Do we really need another proof to see the financial system and stock markets are broken?
    Just another trick.

    Please Palm executives, do us a favour, stop repeating “Palm is back”. The only things it sells is your weakness.

    As a long time Palm user, I would be happy to believe once more your greatest development kit (the one starting with riddles such as “How can a gorilla learn to fly?” or “How do you fit a mountain in a teacup?”)
    http://www.accessdevnet.com/docs/zenofpalm/Enlightenment.html

    Best Regards.
    Thibault

  105. An OS powered by a dynamic language on a mobile plateform?
    I might be retarted but Apple tried to sell us this one and it didn’t work.

    Mobile processing power didn’t increased that much on the meantime.

    I would be very surprised to read their demos with smooth transitions and animations, their apps (calendar, address book, pictures..) are actually powered by a javascript engine. It must be a plain old C++ (or similar), the only tools which deliver speed and small memory requirement.
    Javascript “optimizers” are far from delivering the same efficiency that Java virtual machines do (like the one used for Android).

    If the new Palm Pré apps are 1MB larger and 100% slower than their equivalent on the iPhone, it will show quickly.

    Speed is important.
    The only metric people feel when they actually enjoying using a device is the responsiveness of the interaction they have with it.

    Which brings to us the same dilemma that Apple had: developers wants to get to the core of the device, say accessing the accelerometer, the full gestures, the keypad, etc.
    So how long before we see WebOs apps and Native Pré apps?


    Is Synergy is going to sync?
    Sync is one of the most difficult task to get it right on the whole IT industry.
    And as time fly, the task becomes harder and harder because of the number of providers we use to store “our digital things”.
    Is the “combine everything in one” approach is really going to help or confuse people? Is merging all conversations into one a nice move?
    I hope Palm did a lot of user testing before investing massively in their vision.
    I hope they’re right and will be delighted if they are, but I will not buy a Pre to test it myself.


    Kudos to Palm engineers to improve the User Interface on a mobile device.

    But is nice screens and smart gestures will be enough? It remains to be seen as I never seen a proof yet.
    However repainting and changing the display always been a good trick to have people coming in.

    Also why have you dropped the stylus?
    Why are you doing the same mistake as Apple as using 1dpi fingers on extremly high density screen.
    You’ve been there before with the Palm 1 and its 160×160 pixels screen. So you know how and why precision matters.
    On all your (crappy) videos we see people “missing” their target!
    Let’s face it: fingers are fat and greasy.

    I’m not saying they are not useful : a lot of Palm users were loosing their stylus and using their fingers instead, and were complaining the buttons were too small.
    However we still don’t see somebody writing with their hands. Everybody use a pen.
    Today the input resolution didn’t increased since the first Palm. The buttons are just nicer on a high definition screen.
    I think there is a tradeoff between broad precision and finer control.

    Palm was one of the few company able to accomodate both because of their legacy (the stylus and its gestures). For once a weakness could have been turned into an advantage.

    The other company who got a chance to make something remarkable is now Microsoft with its mobile OS. They have a legacy stylus interface too.
    However with the hype of the touchscreen it’s unlikely. And Microsoft never delivered an engaging interface.
    Palm did. Once. A long time ago.

    The three inputs fingers, keyboard and stylus are just mandatory for a modern mobile UI.
    – The fingers for efficiency (always there, touch is quick),
    – the keyboard because when you’re moving it’s easier (in the bus, the car, etc.) and because you have the other inputs you don’t need to have keys with several meanings.
    – the stylus because it give you precision. Then you can draw, you can write, you can change the width of this excel spreadsheet, etc. You can DO more.

    —–
    What we’re seeing here with Palm annoucement is not even good PR.
    Where are the videos with the crisp display showing fingers explaining how the device works? Like the ones we’ve seen an hour after the end of the iPhone keynote.
    Before the iPhone ships people knew already how it worked because they had the opportunity to see a ton of tutorials about it.
    The iPhone is not more intuitive than anything else, it’s the way the learning occurs: by friends saying “look how I’m smart, let me do a demo to you”.
    The same trick has been done with the first iPod: you were able to use it on the web.
    I cannot believe people coming from Apple have forgotten this.

    Palm would have been bold by announcing the product and saying: “it’s so important that we will discontinue our Treo range as soon as the Pre is shipped” to show their focus.

    Do we really care if your stock price was up? It’s just prove that stock prices are meaningless and do not reflect the true value of a company. Do we really need another proof to see the financial system and stock markets are broken?
    Just another trick.

    Please Palm executives, do us a favour, stop repeating “Palm is back”. The only things it sells is your weakness.

    As a long time Palm user, I would be happy to believe once more your greatest development kit (the one starting with riddles such as “How can a gorilla learn to fly?” or “How do you fit a mountain in a teacup?”)
    http://www.accessdevnet.com/docs/zenofpalm/Enlightenment.html

    Best Regards.
    Thibault

  106. I’m sure the Palm Pre will push Apple to take the next step in the evolution of mobile web devices. The iPhone was a great beginning and got the ball rolling. Now Palm gave it a kick. Apple won’t sit on the sidelines.

  107. I’m sure the Palm Pre will push Apple to take the next step in the evolution of mobile web devices. The iPhone was a great beginning and got the ball rolling. Now Palm gave it a kick. Apple won’t sit on the sidelines.

  108. This has yet to ship yet. There were exactly zero point zero third party applications demoed.

    You need to separate hysteria and hope from market reality.

    Will this be a hit? We’ll see when it ships.

  109. This has yet to ship yet. There were exactly zero point zero third party applications demoed.

    You need to separate hysteria and hope from market reality.

    Will this be a hit? We’ll see when it ships.

  110. The Palm Pre is a lot smaller than I initially thought it would be. A good size comparison would be an iPod classic with a big hard drive. In terms of thickness, it’s definitely not as thin as the iPhone, or even the bold, but it’s an acceptable size considering it’s a slider.

    talk some more here http://www.PalmPreForum.org

  111. The Palm Pre is a lot smaller than I initially thought it would be. A good size comparison would be an iPod classic with a big hard drive. In terms of thickness, it’s definitely not as thin as the iPhone, or even the bold, but it’s an acceptable size considering it’s a slider.

    talk some more here http://www.PalmPreForum.org

  112. […] It’s got “Apple contender” written all over it. Not just in the way the phone looks and behaves, but also behind the scenes, with Chris McKillop as director of Software at Palm (former job: iPhone team at Apple) and one of the PR people at Palm coming directly from the PR team at Apple. Also, Jonathan Rubinstein, who runs the Palm Pre team and led off the announcement, was a key person in development of the iPod and lots of people followed him from Apple to Palm, according to Scobleizer.com […]

  113. No.

    The Palm Pre is “buggy”. Play with it more.

    The iPhone is solid. It has set the standard, and likely still has a long way to go before anyone can catch up. Can’t deny Apple elegance and quality.

    B

  114. No.

    The Palm Pre is “buggy”. Play with it more.

    The iPhone is solid. It has set the standard, and likely still has a long way to go before anyone can catch up. Can’t deny Apple elegance and quality.

    B

  115. Well Palm is sure matching at least one thing Apple has in abundance, arrogance and hubris. Still 3-4 years ago, this might have been a game changer, now it’s a vague also-ran, assuming it ever gets off ground.

    They need emu and some PDA model of Pre, that market is still a big niche for them.

  116. Well Palm is sure matching at least one thing Apple has in abundance, arrogance and hubris. Still 3-4 years ago, this might have been a game changer, now it’s a vague also-ran, assuming it ever gets off ground.

    They need emu and some PDA model of Pre, that market is still a big niche for them.

  117. I saw the Pre at CES and I have to say if this doesn’t bring Palm back from the dead, it’s not their fault. Pre is damn good, at least from what I saw. Still not sure why Palm wouldn’t let us touch these working models, though. David Pogue got to handle one for 10 minutes but the rest of us were told “hands off”. Not sure if that’s the way I would have handled the first introduction of game-changing model from a barely breathing company…

  118. I saw the Pre at CES and I have to say if this doesn’t bring Palm back from the dead, it’s not their fault. Pre is damn good, at least from what I saw. Still not sure why Palm wouldn’t let us touch these working models, though. David Pogue got to handle one for 10 minutes but the rest of us were told “hands off”. Not sure if that’s the way I would have handled the first introduction of game-changing model from a barely breathing company…

  119. […] Palm did what Nokia, RIM, and Microsoft couldn’t: build a better experience than Apple ( Scobleizer ) Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)HW Pick: The Palm Smart PhonePalm Keynote Wrap-upPalm Pre DemoPalm Pre and webOS: lies, damn lies, and statistics […]